Next Week, Manuel vs Glennon, the real 2013 rookie QB competition

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Well yesterday's game aside, we all know this year is about developing a QB at Buffalo. Speaking of which ...

Quietly, Glennon has been progressing since the departure of Freeman. Look at http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating where you can sort various ways, he's very respectable in TD/INT and QB rating. On one important stat of Yrds/A where they measure the difficaulties of throws, he's ranked low, but look where EJ is at.

You can argue that Glennon may have outplayed Manuel as the 2013 rookie QBs. Now EJ was injured for a few games so Glennon may have a slight edge in games played (thus experience), but he had 4 very good game stretch (@Seattle, Miami, Atlanta, @Detroit). I wish I could say EJ played well for a 4 game stretch somewhere this season.

[YardRat]

I think EJ played well enough to lead his team to a win, especially late and in OT. Couple that with the Jets game, and that's two in a row. Maybe next week he can make it three.

[justasportsfan]

I hope EJ gets better with accuracy but at least he's been pulling the trigger.

[TacklingDummy]

EJ Manuel

29th Passing Yards per game (199)
25th Rate (82.7)
34th Yard Per Attempt (6.4)
30th Comp. % (58.2)
30th Passing Yards (1,595)

He's awesome. Franchise QB material right there I tell ya.

[Ed]

EJ Manuel

29th Passing Yards per game (199)
25th Rate (82.7)
34th Yard Per Attempt (6.4)
30th Comp. % (58.2)
30th Passing Yards (1,595)

He's awesome. Franchise QB material right there I tell ya.
He looks a lot better than your boy Geno Smith.

[BillsFever21]

He looks a lot better than your boy Geno Smith.

With all due respect that's not saying much lately though. I have hope for EJ but that's like saying Tim Couch looked better then Akili Smith so everything is fine.

[TacklingDummy]

He looks a lot better than your boy Geno Smith.

That's something to be proud of.

[trapezeus]

give me eli's rookie year numbers and aikmans. HE is our guy whether we love it or not. he's shown more than most of the other QB's so far.

but instead of having TD hijack yet another thread, i think the original post is pretty valid. He's got size and subtle confidence. and he's playing better. he does look pretty solid in terms of a QB developing.

[TacklingDummy]

but instead of having TD hijack yet another thread, i think the original post is pretty valid. He's got size and subtle confidence. and he's playing better. he does look pretty solid in terms of a QB developing.

How does one hijack an EJ thread by responding about EJ?

[Mouldsie]

Glennon has surprised me

[imbondz]

if we won yesterday who knows what that would have done for EJs confidence. buuuuut we didn't.

[Albany,n.y.]

EJ Manuel

29th Passing Yards per game (199)
25th Rate (82.7)
34th Yard Per Attempt (6.4)
30th Comp. % (58.2)
30th Passing Yards (1,595)

He's awesome. Franchise QB material right there I tell ya.

Anyone who blindly looks at QB stats without seeing at least 90% of the plays is doomed to a football fan life of misinterpretation. And if you did see that much of EJ's plays you're either blind or biased against him (probably because you liked a different QB in last year's draft).

[trapezeus]

i get not being satisfied with ej from not being in a bunch of games, to dinking and dunking, to accuracy problems. but the guy has something. he isn't rattled down the stretch. the things we aren't excited about with him are fixable.

would i rather have tony romo who doesn't get injured much, looks accurate, knows how to run an offense but consistently loses when all eyes are on him, or would i rather have a young guy who is rattled and needs to get better? i'd take the young guy.

TD, you just ***** and moan that EJ isn't the one. and he might not be. but he is on our team, he is our best option, and he does show the signs of getting what it takes and seems to have a head on his shoulders that suggests he is willing to improve. Losman didn't have that head. Trent didn't have that head. Fitz didn't have any arm strength. EJ is different. Give him more than 10 games or just continue to troll. your call.

[bills_7]

I think if Ej gets a big WR it will help him tremendously and he will have way less check downs which is my main concern with him right now can also only help him on his fade passes having a bigger target

[jamze132]

I think a lot of it also comes down to playcalling. Early on, Hackett did a not-so-great job of calling the right play at the right time. He has improved lately which is to be expected from a first time OC. Marrone has also changed as the season has progressed and has gotten better.

I'm happy with where the team is development wise, but it sucks to watch them not be able to finish games. We all knew Stevie chokes when the game is on the line (yes he almost dropped the pass at the end of the Carolina game) so that was to be expected.

[Ed]

With all due respect that's not saying much lately though. I have hope for EJ but that's like saying Tim Couch looked better then Akili Smith so everything is fine.
No it's not saying much, but if someone is going to continually try to pimp and defend Geno Smith while always trashing EJ, it makes their opinion kind of worthless.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

There are one school of thoughts of looking at Yrds/A - measuring how far a throw is attempted to where the targetted receiver in terms of yards. The idea is more on the QB's read ability. If you correctly diagnosed what defense is doing and you see, say two options, one is your down field receiver is covered but has an anticipated openning, the other is your dump off - sometimes the defense is willing to give you the dump off in a lot of situations. If a QB is not sure of what he's seeing or is not confident he can put the ball in a small window, he'll go the dump off route. Hence the low Yrds/A number. There were some criticism on Glennon for that.

Early on EJ suffers a lot of those and he still has quite a few issues there. What I see in the last two games is that he did take more chances with Graham/Goodwin in one on one situations. At this point, I'd like to see if he sees a chance, just go deep there without worrying about completion/INTs, winning games right now.

On a side note, it is not uncommon for rookie QBs to go the dump off route. When Brady started in his 2nd year, he did that on his way to a SB win. Same as Roethlisberger. Only very few young ones (Manning, Newton, Luck naming a few) came to NFL and threw all over.

[TacklingDummy]

No it's not saying much, but if someone is going to continually try to pimp and defend Geno Smith while always trashing EJ, it makes their opinion kind of worthless.

Who's pimping Geno?
Like EJ, I've said Geno sucked from the beginning.
Both of them will be busts.

[kishoph]

I think a lot of the checking down has been due to EJ playing it safe, not wanting to turnover the ball, the Bills have also faced a lot of defenses playing a deep cover 2.

As far as stats and rankings go on someplace like NFL.com, they can be so deceiving because of the number of games played and a lot of other factors.
This is a pretty good site for seeing a lot stats that tell a little more about a players performance.
http://www.sportingcharts.com/stats/nfl/player/

[EDS]

I think a lot of the checking down has been due to EJ playing it safe, not wanting to turnover the ball, the Bills have also faced a lot of defenses playing a deep cover 2.

As far as stats and rankings go on someplace like NFL.com, they can be so deceiving because of the number of games played and a lot of other factors.
This is a pretty good site for seeing a lot stats that tell a little more about a players performance.
http://www.sportingcharts.com/stats/nfl/player/

I appreciate that EJ is a rookie, but none of those stats (e.g., adjusted net yards per attempt, QB air yards per attempt, QB rating by total and component, etc.) make his performance look good. His TD to INT ratio is good, however.

[kishoph]

I appreciate that EJ is a rookie, but none of those stats (e.g., adjusted net yards per attempt, QB air yards per attempt, QB rating by total and component, etc.) make his performance look good. His TD to INT ratio is good, however.

I didn't really give the link to make EJ look good, just to show stats that are a little more telling for all players and teams. As far as EJ goes I take a lot more from what I see than his stats. For a rookie QB that spent most of training camp, splitting reps with 2 other QB's, then missed the 2nd half of the pre-season, then played in 4 1/2 games got injured, missed another 4 games, plus playing under a rookie OC, with 1 expererinced WR, I don't know what kind of stats he should be having. I do know that he shows he's learning, he doesn't make foolish mistakes, has arm strength and is showing improvement. Let him get a little more experience and I think he can turn into a very good QB. I'm not gonna say after all he's been through in his rookie year, that he sucks because he ranks 30th in whatever. I don't think you are either, but there are people that do judge him by that.

[EDS]

I didn't really give the link to make EJ look good, just to show stats that are a little more telling for all players and teams. As far as EJ goes I take a lot more from what I see than his stats. For a rookie QB that spent most of training camp, splitting reps with 2 other QB's, then missed the 2nd half of the pre-season, then played in 4 1/2 games got injured, missed another 4 games, plus playing under a rookie OC, with 1 expererinced WR, I don't know what kind of stats he should be having. I do know that he shows he's learning, he doesn't make foolish mistakes, has arm strength and is showing improvement. Let him get a little more experience and I think he can turn into a very good QB. I'm not gonna say after all he's been through in his rookie year, that he sucks because he ranks 30th in whatever. I don't think you are either, but there are people that do judge him by that.

I agree. That said, it is hard not to look at what Chip Kelly & co. are doing in Philly with an inexperienced second year player, in a new offense, with new coaches, one healthy veteran receiver, etc.

[GvilleBills]

Well, he was tentative and inaccurate at times Sunday, showcasing his worst faults.
However, his TD run took gumption. He showed in his last 2 drives how he can take control in the huddle. He wasn't why they lost, but was very nearly a huge part of a win.

I say go all in on the OL in FA, protect EJ to get the best EJ. Draft BPA from LB, TE, OL, and CB.

[better days]

Glennon has surprised me

Well, Glennon has not surprised me. I wanted the Bills to draft him.

[better days]

I think a lot of it also comes down to playcalling. Early on, Hackett did a not-so-great job of calling the right play at the right time. He has improved lately which is to be expected from a first time OC. Marrone has also changed as the season has progressed and has gotten better.

I'm happy with where the team is development wise, but it sucks to watch them not be able to finish games. We all knew Stevie chokes when the game is on the line (yes he almost dropped the pass at the end of the Carolina game) so that was to be expected.

Stevie didn't choke Sunday. He did not fumble the ball, it was knocked out of his hands as was the pass to Chandler.

It is obvious the Falcons played for the takeaway & Stevie & Chandler should have both expected that & should have known to hold onto the ball like their lives depended on it.

That they didn't is more on the Coaching IMO.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Stevie didn't choke Sunday. He did not fumble the ball, it was knocked out of his hands as was the pass to Chandler.

It is obvious the Falcons played for the takeaway & Stevie & Chandler should have both expected that & should have known to hold onto the ball like their lives depended on it.

That they didn't is more on the Coaching IMO.

Stevie is no excuse because in that situation - already in field goal range, the only thing defense will be focusing on is forcing turnover. As they say clutch play or clutch players means that they know what to do under those circumstances. On the positive side, EJ Manuel, though a rookie, has not displayed any melt down, nervousness under those circumstances. If anything, you can argue he elevated his level of play in those situations.

[Albany,n.y.]

I agree. That said, it is hard not to look at what Chip Kelly & co. are doing in Philly with an inexperienced second year player, in a new offense, with new coaches, one healthy veteran receiver, etc.

Foles started 6 games last year and had 2 camps before he played this year.
There's a huge difference between a 1st & 2nd year QB, just look at how much improvement guys like the Mannings, Elway, Aikman etc had from their rookie seasons to sophomore seasons. The Bills receivers have been in & out of the lineup all season. How many games have Johnson, Woods & Goodwin been active together?

[EDS]

Foles started 6 games last year and had 2 camps before he played this year.
There's a huge difference between a 1st & 2nd year QB, just look at how much improvement guys like the Mannings, Elway, Aikman etc had from their rookie seasons to sophomore seasons. The Bills receivers have been in & out of the lineup all season. How many games have Johnson, Woods & Goodwin been active together?

You can slice and dice this many ways, but facts are that Foles is operating in an entirely new offense with new coaches and arguably their best receiver has been injured all year. It is very hard to argue that his development is solely due to having another camp and six starts under his belt.

[better days]

You can slice and dice this many ways, but facts are that Foles is operating in an entirely new offense with new coaches and arguably their best receiver has been injured all year. It is very hard to argue that his development is solely due to having another camp and six starts under his belt.

Foles looks like an NFL QB. He played well last year when given the chance & has outplayed Vick this year.

That said, as Kishoph pointed out, EJ has missed a lot of IMPORTANT time his rookie year. I see him only getting better.

Marrone said it is a great thing the NFL does giving new Coaches extra time to spend with the team. But Marrone also said...........

due to circumstances he did not get to spend any of that time with the most important player on the team..............the QB.

[jills]

He looks a lot better than your boy Geno Smith.

LOL, the "which turd smells the best?" contest.

[trapezeus]

Who's pimping Geno?
Like EJ, I've said Geno sucked from the beginning.
Both of them will be busts.


what makes this so disingenious is that there is such a short supply of elite talent over the years. to consistently claim so and so player will be a bust is easy. "i thought they'd all suck from the draft class" isn't exactly amazing predictive skills. it's playing it super safe.

I wasn't thrilled with EJ as the pick, but i was happy it wasn't geno on draft day.

I think EJ has shown enough differences from the past QB's that he gets to be starter next year.

I think he's shown enough issues that i wouldn't be against finding someone who can push him harder than Thad and Tuel.

I think he's on a short rope next year if his accuracy doesn't improve on most of his passes. at times he looks like he's pushing hte ball instead of throwing it. it seems like something someone who was nervous would do. I would hope that goes away with time.

I also think you got to get him two big bodied receivers in a WR and a TE. and they need to be reliable.

I think he could become elite if he keeps working at it. and he seems to have the head that the elite players have. he doesn't take the crappy performances too much to heart, he never seems totally discouraged even when as fans you are frustrated with him. And he seems pretty cerebral. He seems like he understands the importance of studying and not relying just on his athleticism.

[SpikedLemonade]

I agree. That said, it is hard not to look at what Chip Kelly & co. are doing in Philly with an inexperienced second year player, in a new offense, with new coaches, one healthy veteran receiver, etc.

The homers told us that Marrone was just as sought after as Chip Kelly.