2 Part Question: Should Hackett be here next yr, Does Marrone hv Guts to Fire him?

[Mahdi]

Hackett's offense has been really easy to figure, out. NFL coaches are going in at halftime and making adjustments that he has no answer for. The stats Chris Brown put up on BB.com are alarming. We are 6-24 on third down in the second half. Meaning, Hackett has no backup plan. He comes into every game with one plan, line up in shotgun, fake the handoff and throw, or give the ball to CJ or Fred. Its so predictable its almost insane that he believes it will work.

If you look at if carefully, we got points against the Falcons because we ran the ball well on a weak run D, and we scored against the Jets because they didnt respect our speed on the outside.

Hackett needs to show a more dynamic offense....

Now, even if its clear Hackett should go, I am doubting Marrone would have the guts to let his boy go.

[swiper]

Hackett's offense has been really easy to figure, out. NFL coaches are going in at halftime and making adjustments that he has no answer for. The stats Chris Brown put up on BB.com are alarming. We are 6-24 on third down in the second half. Meaning, Hackett has no backup plan. He comes into every game with one plan, line up in shotgun, fake the handoff and throw, or give the ball to CJ or Fred. Its so predictable its almost insane that he believes it will work.

If you look at if carefully, we got points against the Falcons because we ran the ball well on a weak run D, and we scored against the Jets because they didnt respect our speed on the outside.

Hackett needs to show a more dynamic offense....

Now, even if its clear Hackett should go, I am doubting Marrone would have the guts to let his boy go.

What I don't get is fans that want to wait and wait and wait for Manuel to show something, but to fire Hackett so quickly. Hackett is learning to. You have to give him some degree of learning curve also.

I'm not really a fan of his. And much less a fan of Deer-in-the-headlights Manuel. So my question is should we let Manuel go? Answer: yes. The Bills are struggling on 3rd down because the QB sucks.

[Thurmal]

Every single 1st down play is a draw to Spiller up the middle.

[trapezeus]

i think you'd need to see the all 22 film and see all the snaps again. how many times did the play call and what was executed match up? if it was a lot, and we were that bad, he might need to go.

if they don't match up, then he might be ok and its the other players that need to step up.

The bills did score 31 points on Sunday.

Despite our lofty hopes, the bills are still a wildly undertalented team. after finally spending a couple years picking defense, we got a strong front 7, but it's not excessively deep. we got lucky that there weren't too many injuries upfront. For the OL, we don't have a very good line. There is only so much you can do when two very good runningbacks struggle to have the seasons they had before.

At the end, i would rather have a predictable team that can impose its will than one that needs to constantly scheme to win. Because the "impose the will" teams will be the ones you can depend on in the 4th quarter. They run the clock when that's what's needed. They exhaust another team. The scheming teams sometimes just fall apart and get it wrong.

Hackett doesn't have the talent on offense to impose their will. the line is too weak for it.

like i said, unless the all 22 film shows some inconsistency in his methods, i think he deserves another year.

[swiper]

Kevin Gilbride is one of the most predictable O-coordinators in the league. He has prospered in NY because he has had (prior to this season) a good QB.

[The King]

Hackett put this team in a position to beat the Chiefs and the Falcons, the players didn't execute. He's also had to keep things conservative for most of the season. I think he's earned a pass.

[Night Train]

The calls that drive me crazy are 3rd down, 1-3 yards...and he calls a deep low percentage sideline throw that rarely ever connects.
Why not run Fred, swing pass to Fred or quick slant to anyone ?

Sometimes I think Hackett has a Madden trophy next to his bed.

[Uncle Jesse]

Calling for the OC after we put up 31 points and over 400 yards over offense? Seems like a thing Bills fans would do.

How about the DC who's embarrassment of a showing contributed largely to the loss Sunday, allowing the Falcons to have their best rushing day of the season and score the most points in a game they have all season?

[justasportsfan]

Calling for the OC after we put up 31 points and over 400 yards over offense? Seems like a thing Bills fans would do.

How about the DC who's embarrassment of a showing contributed largely to the loss Sunday, allowing the Falcons to have their best rushing day of the season and score the most points in a game they have all season?

This!

THey are also forgetting the injuries Hackett has had to deal with at the Qb position.

[Mahdi]

Calling for the OC after we put up 31 points and over 400 yards over offense? Seems like a thing Bills fans would do.

How about the DC who's embarrassment of a showing contributed largely to the loss Sunday, allowing the Falcons to have their best rushing day of the season and score the most points in a game they have all season?

I don't like Hackett's system. Its all based on one element and its easy to figure out. By the third quarter any DC that is any good has it solved. I just think Manuel needs to be learning a more traditional passing offense so he can progress.

Where are the screens? How is it possible we have 2 of the best receiving RBs in the NFL and we suck at getting them the ball? We have no designed swing passes, we dont split out CJ or FJ and iso them on slower LBs. We don't play enough under center stuff and use play-action to highlight the strength of our run game.

It really makes no sense the way the offense operates. Gailey despite the fact that he didn't get Spiller the ball enough worked his offense around CJ and FJ and was very creative with his screens and spread offense.

[GingerP]

Calling for the OC after we put up 31 points and over 400 yards over offense? Seems like a thing Bills fans would do.

To be fair, that was against a team that gives up an average of 28.3 points per game overall and 30.5 points per road game. they aren't a very good defense.

That said, it is silly to talk of dismissing Hackett. People love to question play-calling, but he deserves more than 3/4ths a season to prove himself. One of the biggest problems with the Bills has been the lack of stability, they are always changing. You can't build something if you are tearing it down after one season.

[justasportsfan]

I don't like Hackett's system. Its all based on one element and its easy to figure out. By the third quarter any DC that is any good has it solved. I just think Manuel needs to be learning a more traditional passing offense so he can progress.

Where are the screens? How is it possible we have 2 of the best receiving RBs in the NFL and we suck at getting them the ball? We have no designed swing passes, we dont split out CJ or FJ and iso them on slower LBs. We don't play enough under center stuff and use play-action to highlight the strength of our run game.

It really makes no sense the way the offense operates. Gailey despite the fact that he didn't get Spiller the ball enough worked his offense around CJ and FJ and was very creative with his screens and spread offense.

Do you even know that in Chan's 3RD year as the HC the bills were ranked 19 while in Hacketts 1st year with rookies (QB's) and an injury riddled QB position they are already ranked 16th? I know ranking does not paint an entire picture but neither does your opinion. Don't dismiss the circumstances I just pointed out.

The PAtriots , jets and fins would've loved Gailey. They stopped his offense several times. The jets' D would have most likely swept us this year.

[Mahdi]

Do you even know that in Chan's 3RD year as the HC the bills were ranked 19 while in Hacketts 1st year with rookies (QB's) and an injury riddled QB position they are already ranked 16th? I know ranking does not paint an entire picture but neither does your opinion. Don't dismiss the circumstances I just pointed out.

The PAtriots , jets and fins would've loved Gailey. They stopped his offense several times. The jets' D would have most likely swept us this year.

I think Gailey had less to work with than Hackett. Again, I just don't like this offense.

[justasportsfan]

I think Gailey had less to work with than Hackett. Again, I just don't like this offense.



thats because he chose Fitz as his no.1.

What do you mean he had less? He had a more experienced qb playing in his 3rd year with the same offense. Hackett has had Tuel, EJ and THad. Only Thad had 1 game experience prior to this season. Hackett also has 2 rookies opposite Stevie.

Why not compare Gailey's 1st year here and HAckett's 1st? Not even close despite Trent/Fitz vs. EJ/Tuel/Thad.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not impressed by HAcketts O either but I'm not ready to run him out of town just yet. It's hard to succeed when your QB who was said to be raw coming out of the draft is still in his learning stage and then gets injured and replaced by inexperienced qb's.

[tampabay25690]

Hackett's offense has been really easy to figure, out. NFL coaches are going in at halftime and making adjustments that he has no answer for. The stats Chris Brown put up on BB.com are alarming. We are 6-24 on third down in the second half. Meaning, Hackett has no backup plan. He comes into every game with one plan, line up in shotgun, fake the handoff and throw, or give the ball to CJ or Fred. Its so predictable its almost insane that he believes it will work.

If you look at if carefully, we got points against the Falcons because we ran the ball well on a weak run D, and we scored against the Jets because they didnt respect our speed on the outside.

Hackett needs to show a more dynamic offense....

Now, even if its clear Hackett should go, I am doubting Marrone would have the guts to let his boy go.

Hackett is going knowhere.
I think we need to get EJ more confident and get a healthy offense.
I really think the Bills will draft a WR early in the draft.

I really think EJ just needs to get more confident....

[tampabay25690]

I don't like Hackett's system. Its all based on one element and its easy to figure out. By the third quarter any DC that is any good has it solved. I just think Manuel needs to be learning a more traditional passing offense so he can progress.

Where are the screens? How is it possible we have 2 of the best receiving RBs in the NFL and we suck at getting them the ball? We have no designed swing passes, we dont split out CJ or FJ and iso them on slower LBs. We don't play enough under center stuff and use play-action to highlight the strength of our run game.

It really makes no sense the way the offense operates. Gailey despite the fact that he didn't get Spiller the ball enough worked his offense around CJ and FJ and was very creative with his screens and spread offense.


I think you are totally wrong.......
Why dont we get on EJ a little??
The guy has barely taken shots down field....
Right now he looks to check down right away.

I like EJ but we need to develop him into a confident player and he needs to take shots down field.

[better days]

The calls that drive me crazy are 3rd down, 1-3 yards...and he calls a deep low percentage sideline throw that rarely ever connects.
Why not run Fred, swing pass to Fred or quick slant to anyone ?

Sometimes I think Hackett has a Madden trophy next to his bed.

What drives me crazy is after playing so conservatively 99% of the game, Hackett goes for the home run ball when the Bills are DEEP in their own end.

That is not the time to gamble. But rather the time to keep it conservative & move the ball by picking up first downs in a methodical manor.

[DraftBoy]

What drives me crazy is after playing so conservatively 99% of the game, Hackett goes for the home run ball when the Bills are DEEP in their own end.

That is not the time to gamble. But rather the time to keep it conservative & move the ball by picking up first downs in a methodical manor.

Disagree, the defense is expecting you to run the ball. The box is traditionally stacked and the LB's are filling the running lanes. Its the time if you see a single high safety to run play action with keeping the RB in to pass protect and then try the deep ball to your fastest WR in one on one coverage.

Personally I want to see more designed play-action roll outs where EJ gets out of the pocket and has the run pass option if needed. I see him getting to statue like in the pocket for a guy with his size and mobility. He needs to move around more.

My favorite play is trips formation with a playaction rollout to the weakside with all three WR's dragging across the field with the rollout at different depths. Extremely difficult for a defense to effectively defend.

[Mahdi]

thats because he chose Fitz as his no.1.

What do you mean he had less? He had a more experienced qb playing in his 3rd year with the same offense. Hackett has had Tuel, EJ and THad. Only Thad had 1 game experience prior to this season. Hackett also has 2 rookies opposite Stevie.

Why not compare Gailey's 1st year here and HAckett's 1st? Not even close despite Trent/Fitz vs. EJ/Tuel/Thad.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not impressed by HAcketts O either but I'm not ready to run him out of town just yet. It's hard to succeed when your QB who was said to be raw coming out of the draft is still in his learning stage and then gets injured and replaced by inexperienced qb's.

I would agree with you about the injuries at QB if Hackett's offense wasn't what it is. This offense should be built around, run, play action off run, screen, quick hitters and the occasional deep ball to Goodwin.

Tom Brady who can make any throw opens a ton of his drives with that quick throw to his WR when the CB plays off man. We haven't done that ONCE this season and we have elusive guys like Goodwin, Johnson and Graham and Woods at our disposal. You kidding me? Not ONCE?

We have Spiller who is a threat to break a run to the endzone everytime yet we don't get him out in space?

Chandler IMO is under-utilized. All this run game stuff should translate to more throws to Chandler over the middle on Crosses or Post patterns.

Just too many plays are being left out there that highlight the strengths of our players. Hackett is stuck in his college offense.

[better days]

Disagree, the defense is expecting you to run the ball. The box is traditionally stacked and the LB's are filling the running lanes. Its the time if you see a single high safety to run play action with keeping the RB in to pass protect and then try the deep ball to your fastest WR in one on one coverage.

Personally I want to see more designed play-action roll outs where EJ gets out of the pocket and has the run pass option if needed. I see him getting to statue like in the pocket for a guy with his size and mobility. He needs to move around more.

My favorite play is trips formation with a playaction rollout to the weakside with all three WR's dragging across the field with the rollout at different depths. Extremely difficult for a defense to effectively defend.

Well, if EJ were more accurate, it might be worth the gamble to go long, but he is NOT.

LOW percentage play to go long when the QB does not have the ability to deliver the ball on target.

[justasportsfan]

I would agree with you about the injuries at QB if Hackett's offense wasn't what it is. This offense should be built around, run, play action off run, screen, quick hitters and the occasional deep ball to Goodwin.. who says the plays weren't called? I remember Marrone and HAckett saying in an interview where they called deep ball plays and EJ dinked it. ..[/QUOTE]


Tom Brady who can make any throw opens a ton of his drives with that quick throw to his WR when the CB plays off man. We haven't done that ONCE this season and we have elusive guys like Goodwin, Johnson and Graham and Woods at our disposal. You kidding me? Not ONCE?
..
Brady screened passed his way to the sb in his first year as the starter. It wasn't until after he developed that they added and changed their system especially when Moss joined them. EJ is not there yet. He only started to pull the trigger the last 2 games.



We have Spiller who is a threat to break a run to the endzone everytime yet we don't get him out in space? .. Have you been watching the games? Teams stacked the box all the time . Until EJ starts opening up the run game with his passes, they will continue to stack the LOS.


Chandler IMO is under-utilized. All this run game stuff should translate to more throws to Chandler over the middle on Crosses or Post patterns... Do you know that despite hte problems at QB Chandler was poised to have his best year in yards? It's not his fault he isn't getting thrown to in the endzone. Thats EJ's job to find him like Fitz did. It's also not Chandlers fault that EJ was very inaccurate for most of the games he's played so far.


Just too many plays are being left out there that highlight the strengths of our players. Hackett is stuck in his college offense.

College offense yet you liked Gailey's offense that was productive vs. AFCE rivals only a couple of times a year? Seems to me you couldn't reply to the comparisons to Gaileys offense.

[justasportsfan]

Well, if EJ were more accurate, it might be worth the gamble to go long, but he is NOT.

LOW percentage play to go long when the QB does not have the ability to deliver the ball on target.

accurate or not, I'm happy that he's pulling the trigger. I don't mind him gambling on deep throws rather than dinking for 3 yards and end up punting anyways.

[jamze132]

I think if Buffalo can incorporate more screen passes to Fred anf CJ, Hackett will be fine.

I'm appalled that we do not utilize those two by design in the passing game more.

[Bill Cody]

Now, even if its clear Hackett should go, I am doubting Marrone would have the guts to let his boy go.


I don't think it's clear he should go so I guess Marrone doesn't need guts

[User Manuel]

I have seen little sample size to support firing anyone outside of, perhaps, the Special Teams coordinator. The work Hackett has done with the injuries and 3 different QBS has been excellent IMO. Manuel has certainly not been great, but hardly terrible either. Frankly he is two fumbles away from 2 significant clutch drives for wins. I get frustration, but this type of thread along with the "give up Stevie for nothing" are tiring and silly. Did ANYONE really view this as a playoff team this year?

[BertSquirtgum]

What drives me crazy is after playing so conservatively 99% of the game, Hackett goes for the home run ball when the Bills are DEEP in their own end.

That is not the time to gamble. But rather the time to keep it conservative & move the ball by picking up first downs in a methodical manor.

How do we know Manuel didn't audible out because of what he saw in the defensive scheme?

[DraftBoy]

Well, if EJ were more accurate, it might be worth the gamble to go long, but he is NOT.

LOW percentage play to go long when the QB does not have the ability to deliver the ball on target.

The call isn't just about making the completion. These are the mental games that go on beyond just what you're seeing and understanding.

[DraftBoy]

I think if Buffalo can incorporate more screen passes to Fred anf CJ, Hackett will be fine.

I'm appalled that we do not utilize those two by design in the passing game more.

Their best pulling lineman was Levitre, so if they don't have the OL to get out in front of the plays they are pretty useless to call. I think that's been an underrated aspect of the loss at OG.

[Mahdi]

who says the plays weren't called? I remember Marrone and HAckett saying in an interview where they called deep ball plays and EJ dinked it. ..


Brady screened passed his way to the sb in his first year as the starter. It wasn't until after he developed that they added and changed their system especially when Moss joined them. EJ is not there yet. He only started to pull the trigger the last 2 games.


Have you been watching the games? Teams stacked the box all the time . Until EJ starts opening up the run game with his passes, they will continue to stack the LOS.

Do you know that despite hte problems at QB Chandler was poised to have his best year in yards? It's not his fault he isn't getting thrown to in the endzone. Thats EJ's job to find him like Fitz did. It's also not Chandlers fault that EJ was very inaccurate for most of the games he's played so far.



College offense yet you liked Gailey's offense that was productive vs. AFCE rivals only a couple of times a year? Seems to me you couldn't reply to the comparisons to Gaileys offense.

Yer responses don't reflect my comments accurately at all.

You say Brady did all the short stuff early in his career and all the rest came when Moss joined and Manuel isn't there yet.. well my whole point was that we should be using more of those quick hitter passes and flanker screens to help Manuel out. So that's one.

Then you ask if ive been watching and remind me that the box is stacked. I agree the box is stacked which is why I said in my post we should be using more play action and post patterns to Chandler, especially from under center.

About Chandler, yes its EJ's job to get him the ball, but there are ways to get your TE open that Hackett is not utilizing. One thing he can do is line up his QB under center and use play action to draw up the LBs and throw to Chandler up top in behind them. That is what every team in the league does when they establish the run game. Also, its been said somewhere that Chandler actually comes out of the game too many times in the redzone as was the case a couple weeks ago, Steelers maybe.

Gailey, his offense was limited by personnel as I see it. Our WRs are way better and way more diverse this year and Manuel has a much bigger arm than Fitz which opens up the playbook.

Overall, I want to see:

More Screens -- RB and WR

More pro style offense -- get Manuel under center and run play action, move the pocket, roll him out etc.

More of those cheap snap and throw completions that get you 5 free yards -- never do it

More reverses -- have we done one this year? Might have the fastest WR in the game in Goodwin and he can't take a reverse from Spiller?

How many times do we run toss plays? Granted our OL is not very light on their feet but doesn't mean it will never work

[justasportsfan]

Yer responses don't reflect my comments accurately at all.

You say Brady did all the short stuff early in his career and all the rest came when Moss joined and Manuel isn't there yet.. well my whole point was that we should be using more of those quick hitter passes and flanker screens to help Manuel out. So that's one

Then you ask if ive been watching and remind me that the box is stacked. I agree the box is stacked which is why I said in my post we should be using more play action and post patterns to Chandler, especially from under center.. thats been done. Manuel was dinking nd dunking prior ro getting injured to Chandler. The problem was EJ. He gave up to easily with his reads. Once again, Chandler was/is poised to have more yards with the bills this year .


About Chandler, yes its EJ's job to get him the ball, but there are ways to get your TE open that Hackett is not utilizing. One thing he can do is line up his QB under center and use play action to draw up the LBs and throw to Chandler up top in behind them. That is what every team in the league does when they establish the run game. Also, its been said somewhere that Chandler actually comes out of the game too many times in the redzone as was the case a couple weeks ago, Steelers maybe... Chandler is not a speedy TE than can get separtation. EJ's problem which was pointed out by steeler players is that he wont throw to his receivers unless they were open and EJ talked about that vs. the jets. He said he just let it rip against them which is why he played well vs. the jets. Even Hackett talked about showing EJ videos of top qb's who pull the trigger even when the recievers arent open. So the problem there is not Chandler getting open. It was EJ not pulling the trigger.

Chandler told THad that if he is covered one on one and the cbs back is facing the qb, he is open and Thad used that. The difference is that back then Thad had the balls to throw those, while EJ didn't.


Gailey, his offense was limited by personnel as I see it. Our WRs are way better and way more diverse this year and Manuel has a much bigger arm than Fitz which opens up the playbook. part of that was his annointing Fitz as his qb. Woods at this point is not even as proven as David Nelson and Gailey had Levitre. So I don't know how you can say Gailey had limited personnel. So far it's equal at best IMO.


Overall, I want to see:

More Screens -- RB and WR

More pro style offense -- get Manuel under center and run play action, move the pocket, roll him out etc.

More of those cheap snap and throw completions that get you 5 free yards -- never do it

More reverses -- have we done one this year? Might have the fastest WR in the game in Goodwin and he can't take a reverse from Spiller?

How many times do we run toss plays? Granted our OL is not very light on their feet but doesn't mean it will never workYes, we ran reverses with Goodwin and went no where because there were a ton of player at the LOS.

The one thing I will agree with you is more rollouts.

I am looking for EJ to develop his deep passing game . That would open things up for the things you stated. EJ has the arm and we drafted speed receivers to stretch the field. The sooner EJ's arm + our speedy receivers become a threat for whenever defenses stack the box, the sooner everything will open up.