We'll consider cutting back the playbook for EJ-D.Marrone

[Raptor]

Just said it in his pressor...Translation: he is a lot slower learner than we thought or told you


let me ask, where are all the clueless fans that bought into the nonsense that the FSU offense was more complicated than the Bills system, as per EJ said it was?

When those who actually follow college football knew that Jimbo had to dumb it down for EJ. Don't believe me? Look at that same offense now with Winston. FSU was/is actually able to open his playbook with a legit QB. What you see at FSU is what the offense was supposed to look like with a QB that can grasp it

[X-Era]

Just said it in his pressor...Translation: he is a lot slower learner than we thought or told you


let me ask, where are all the clueless fans that bought into the nonsense that the FSU offense was more complicated than the Bills system, as per EJ said it was?

When those who actually follow college football knew that Jimbo had to dumb it down for EJ. Don't believe me? Look at that same offense now with Winston. FSU was/is actually able to open his playbook with a legit QB. What you see at FSU is what the offense was supposed to look like with a QB that can grasp itHe doesn't need to dumb it down. He needs to change his crappy protection schemes and change the routes to have guys be actually open.

[justasportsfan]

He doesn't need to dumb it down. He needs to change his crappy protection schemes and change the routes to have guys be actually open.

Thad and Tuel seems to find those open receivers

[kingJofNYC]

Offense looks pretty dumb downed already, nothing but slants and shallow crosses, what more can they cut?

[X-Era]

Thad and Tuel seems to find those open receiversWhat games were you watching? The 1 game out of 5 that we won? Tuel has thrown 1 TD and 3 INT's and stunk up the field against KC. He hasn't posted a single game with over 47% completion numbers. But he's good?

Lewis? He's done better but has 1 win out of 3 games and almost as many INT's as TD's. He had one good game.

Let's not drink the dirt in the mirage here. None of these guys, including EJ, are playing at a solid starting QB level yet.

[colin]

Xera , you really have to stop defending ej. He's been terrible.

[Mr. Pink]

How much further can you dumb down constant dump offs and slants?

Really?

[Mace]

Let's call it like it is, Manuel is looking very trentative at this point. Kind of silly though to say Tuel found open receivers, he did, though they weren't wearing the right uniforms. Lewis is a gamer. Looks like the guy at backup to me, but not "The Guy".

I guess the thing I still don't get in accumulating fast guys, is why they don't seem to ever heave it way down there to them, while they are being fast. It doesn't seem like complex coaching to say "look, this play lines everyone up to sprint long, just look to see which has the best jump and throw it that way as far as you can". One of them is bound to get a linebacker, and it doesn't seem a complicated read. Or "look, all you fast guys criss cross and go long" Only problem with it is that the offensive line needs to sort of slow people down a few seconds maybe.

Oh how it pains me to see Manuel looking trentative, but 3 more games to stop it or who knows ?

[Novacane]

So it's going to get more boring than it already is? I'm not bothering to watch the last 3 games.

[Raptor]

He doesn't need to dumb it down. He needs to change his crappy protection schemes and change the routes to have guys be actually open.


oh riiiiight I forgot, everyone else's fault but the crappy play of the QB. Got it

[YardRat]

I don't recall anybody supporting the notion that the FSU offense was more complicated than the Bills.

[Buffalo Thriller]

Why did we draft a project QB, that everyone knows is a project in the 1st round, when we could have had him in the 3rd? Why? Because we are the same old Bills.

[Raptor]

I don't recall anybody supporting the notion that the FSU offense was more complicated than the Bills.

they supported the statement

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218928-Manuel-Bills-offense-easier-to-learn-than-FSU-s/page4

[justasportsfan]

What games were you watching? The 1 game out of 5 that we won? Tuel has thrown 1 TD and 3 INT's and stunk up the field against KC. He hasn't posted a single game with over 47% completion numbers. But he's good?

Lewis? He's done better but has 1 win out of 3 games and almost as many INT's as TD's. He had one good game.

Let's not drink the dirt in the mirage here. None of these guys, including EJ, are playing at a solid starting QB level yet.Tuel had 1 game vs a better defense than what EJ faced yesterday yet he was able to score a TD when he found GOODWIN deep. That's what I watched. EJ has has WAAAY more snaps and waaay more experience yet he stinks as much as Tuel at times.

You can defend EJ all you want but the coach has spoken. Dumb down the playbook for EJ.

[Cleve]

Why did we draft a project QB, that everyone knows is a project in the 1st round, when we could have had him in the 3rd? Why? Because we are the same old Bills.

It's just like Gailey was going to turn Fitzpatrick from a mid-tier backup into a franchise QB. Idiocy!

Bob Mathews, WHAM1180 in Rochester, has been consistently critical about Nix's decision to draft Manuel since before the day of the draft. It speaks volumes about Manuel that his old alma mater is playing a lot better now with HIM gone.

[Skooby]

How much further can you dumb down constant dump offs and slants?

Really?

Handing it off to a RB.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I said it time and time again and I repeat: if next April the Bills found themselves in a position to draft a QB graded higher than EJ, they should not hesitate to draft him.

It's silly people talking about playoffs and watching who's beating who couple of weeks ago. The Bills ranked 3rd or 4th from the AFC bottom at the time! They are a lot closer to drafting in top 5 next year than you think.

I'm a firm believer that you need to be bad, really bad before you get better for an extended period of time. Being mediocre like 6 - 10, 7 - 9, 8 - 8, 9 -7 does more harm than good unless you have the key pieces in place, like a franchise QB. Right now, I'm predicting the Bills finishing 5 - 11.

[DynaPaul]

EJ is getting the Tecmo Bowl playbook now. There are only 4 plays, 2 running and 2 passing.

[DraftBoy]

I don't recall anybody supporting the notion that the FSU offense was more complicated than the Bills.

Nobody knows for sure, but its a possibility. Jimbo has one of the thickest playbooks in the NCAA, a byproduct of being an offensive guru.

[Jeff1220]

Maybe they'll start to huddle up. I hate this no huddle gimmick. It seems like it gets brought back here just because it worked for Marv's teams and it'll remind the fans of what was to fuel false hope of what will be.

[DraftBoy]

Maybe they'll start to huddle up. I hate this no huddle gimmick. It seems like it gets brought back here just because it worked for Marv's teams and it'll remind the fans of what was to fuel false hope of what will be.

I truly believe you can strike a nice balance between no huddle and huddle. The issue though is that I think you need a truly cerebral QB or OC to properly run that scheme. A QB who can see the whole field and know what the defense is doing before the snap is a must. Right now I don't see EJ doing that. He seems to be delayed in his reaction waiting to see what the defense does and it's killing the offensive flow. His process absolutely must speed up.

[gr8slayer]

I didn't think that they could cut it back any more.

[Jeff1220]

There are definitely situations and match ups that the no huddle would benefit. But to run it all the time is idiotic, especially when the O has a tendency toward 3 and out.

[DraftBoy]

There are definitely situations and match ups that the no huddle would benefit. But to run it all the time is idiotic, especially when the O has a tendency toward 3 and out.

Agreed, I think there are certainly some QB's who could run it full time (Peyton Manning being the first to jump to my mind) but with a rookie QB, an OL that leaks like a sieve, and a stable of WR's that struggle to run routes let alone make catches it appears quite asinine.

[BertSquirtgum]

That's why I wonder why these coaches even know what they're doing. Why do they continue to run this stupid no huddle when it's obviously hurting the team?

[Night Train]

The OC has to call good plays that fit the QB's skills. Seems to be a huge disconnect, at present.

I'd be rolling this guy out constantly. 1 read, 2 read..if nothing there, run out of bounds for a short gain and come back. Doesn't look like a pocket passer to me. Has size and can move. Moving targets are harder to defend. His accuracy will improve with time, once he gets the same faces to throw to. Focus on Woods and the RB's for now.

[kishoph]

Stats of poor throws on the Bills


Manuel - 17.7% of all his attempts have been poor throws, 42% of his incompletions have been due to poor throws.
Tuel - 23.7% of all attempts have been poor throws, 42.2% of his incompletions....
Lewis - 23.3% of all attempts have been poor throws, 58.5 of his incompletions.....

For comparison, Brady - 17.8% and 45.4%..... Luck - 16.4% and 39.6%

Again, these are stats, they don't tell all, just as a QB's completion % does't, incompletions can be caused by dropped balls, passes defensed, poor throws, etc. but a lot of people don't take that into account

source.
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/p...d=26639&team=2

[DraftBoy]

The OC has to call good plays that fit the QB's skills. Seems to be a huge disconnect, at present.

I'd be rolling this guy out constantly. 1 read, 2 read..if nothing there, run out of bounds for a short gain and come back. Doesn't look like a pocket passer to me. Has size and can move. Moving targets are harder to defend. His accuracy will improve with time, once he gets the same faces to throw to. Focus on Woods and the RB's for now.

A QB with Manuel's size, speed, and arm strength could be deadly on the roll out. I have no idea why we aren't doing more of that right now.

[Cleve]

Hey, Marrone - how's about cutting the part about "Throw several interceptions" from Manuel's playbook, huh?

[justasportsfan]

The issue though is that I think you need a truly cerebral QB or OC to properly run that scheme. A QB who can see the whole field and know what the defense is doing before the snap is a must. Right now I don't see EJ doing that. He seems to be delayed in his reaction waiting to see what the defense does and it's killing the offensive flow. His process absolutely must speed up.
this.

Very indecisive and not sure of himself even though he looks calm walking to the LOS. I feel more confident with Thad in there than I do EJ.

[BillsFever21]

Stats of poor throws on the Bills


Manuel - 17.7% of all his attempts have been poor throws, 42% of his incompletions have been due to poor throws.
Tuel - 23.7% of all attempts have been poor throws, 42.2% of his incompletions....
Lewis - 23.3% of all attempts have been poor throws, 58.5 of his incompletions.....

For comparison, Brady - 17.8% and 45.4%..... Luck - 16.4% and 39.6%

Again, these are stats, they don't tell all, just as a QB's completion % does't, incompletions can be caused by dropped balls, passes defensed, poor throws, etc. but a lot of people don't take that into account

source.
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/p...d=26639&team=2

Not all attempts and incompletions are the same. Manuel rarely attempts passes down the field or in tight windows. A guy like Andrew Luck does on a regular basis. When you are throwing mostly short passes and even them are poor throws then that's a huge issue. It reminds me of Trent Edwards more and more every game. That's the worse that could happen.

I could tell Edwards was worthless after a month of football and he never improved. Too many said he was good because of his completion percentage and because Bill Walsh said so. I still have hope for EJ unlike any for Edwards a month into his career.

[jimmifli]

A QB with Manuel's size, speed, and arm strength could be deadly on the roll out. I have no idea why we aren't doing more of that right now.
Have you seen his throws when he's on the run? He sure doesn't look comfortable doing it.

[Mace]

Handing it off to a RB.

Wish it would be Summers more often.

[DraftBoy]

Have you seen his throws when he's on the run? He sure doesn't look comfortable doing it.

Not many QB's do when they are only asked to do it infrequently. His early years at FSU he did it more often and was more than competent at it.