Front Office - Admit Your Mistake.....

[k-oneputt]

EJ Manuel is not the answer. Do the right thing and draft a qb with the top-10 2014 draft pick.

[Typ0]

What is drafting another unknown going to solve though?

[BertSquirtgum]

EJ Manuel is not the answer. Do the right thing and draft a qb with the top-10 2014 draft pick.

Ummm. NO. The Bills need a #1 receiver with their first round pick.

[TacklingDummy]

Ummm. NO. The Bills need a #1 receiver with their first round pick.hey we agree on something. Welcome to Buffalo Mike Evans.

[BertSquirtgum]

hey we agree on something. Welcome to Buffalo Mike Evans.

Should have had AJ green. Dumb Buddy.

[k-oneputt]

This guy can't throw more then 10 yds down field. His accuracy and decision making are terrible.

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't know though. If Manziel declares for the 2014 draft. I wouldn't be hesitant to take him if he was available. He's an arrogant ******* with an arm that wants to win football games. That's the kind of quarterback we need.

[TacklingDummy]

I don't know though. If Manziel declares for the 2014 draft. I wouldn't be hesitant to take him if he was available. He's an arrogant ******* with an arm that wants to win football games. That's the kind of quarterback we need.
The only thing I don't like about Johnny Football is he's 5'11".

[BertSquirtgum]

The only thing I don't like about Johnny Football is he's 5'11".

6'1 and russel wilson is 5'11. How did that turn out? Buddy thought he would be the smart guy and get him in the fourth.

[k-oneputt]

The only thing I don't like about Johnny Football is he's 5'11".

So is Brees and Wilson. EJ has no insticnts and is a stiff. I can't sit through another season watching this. They will have the top pick to get another qb and they have to make the move.

[SpikedLemonade]

Ummm. NO. The Bills need a #1 receiver with their first round pick.

So this OL is good enough?

[TacklingDummy]

6'1 and russel wilson is 5'11. How did that turn out? Buddy thought he would be the smart guy and get him in the fourth.

Many sites claim 6'1", others say 5'11".
It's a concern but not much of one.
Thanks, didn't know Wilson was that short.

[BertSquirtgum]

So this OL is good enough?

They don't have second and third round picks? Upgrades at guard and right tackle will be available in the second and third rounds.

[SpikedLemonade]

They don't have second and third round picks? Upgrades at guard and right tackle will be available in the second and third rounds.

So will WRs.

This team should be building an OL that it can always run behind.

[BertSquirtgum]

So will WRs.

This team should be building an OL that it can always run behind.

Read post #7 and either way. The Bills need elite talent at the wide receiver position. They don't need elite talent to be better on the offensive line. Currently the Bills have 3rd string guys starting at LG and RT. Won't be very hard to upgrade those positions. The bus driver who saved that girl from suicide would probably be better than Legursky.

[TacklingDummy]

So will WRs.

This team should be building an OL that it can always run behind.
Be surprised the running lanes that will open up when defenses don't play 8 in the box because they are not scared of your passing game.

Hopefully the Bills can get an early 1st for Byrd and either go 1a. QB and 1b. WR or 1a WR and 1b TE.

I'd be fine with both scenarios.

[coastal]

Russ Brandon is the mistake.

[Downinfloflo]

You don't pay Guards 6 million you dummy.... :zonelunch

[Meathead]

lmao how is brandon responsible for the team sucking this season

cmon every fan base for every rookie not named luck complains about their rookie qb

this week hes a bust. last week he was the steady force in an end game team meltdown. the week before that he was great. the week before that he was a bust

you can say all this about 99% of rookie qbs

i think he will be more than fine, the steady guy who doesnt turn the ball over (much), like the black alex smith with a little more scrambling ability. maybe not but thats the pernt, we dont know yet

hes the guy and is going to get most if not all next season to grow into the job. there will be no qb drafted high by the bills no matter what next season. deal wid it

[sudzy]

Russ Brandon is the mistake.

Basically this is really what wrong with the Bills. Ralph turns the team over to a ticket salesman. Which tells me this team only cares about being good enough to sell tickets.

[Mr. Pink]

Should have had AJ green. Dumb Buddy.

Should have had Dez Bryant.

[coastal]

lmao how is brandon responsible for the team sucking this season

cmon every fan base for every rookie not named luck complains about their rookie qb

this week hes a bust. last week he was the steady force in an end game team meltdown. the week before that he was great. the week before that he was a bust

you can say all this about 99% of rookie qbs

i think he will be more than fine, the steady guy who doesnt turn the ball over (much), like the black alex smith with a little more scrambling ability. maybe not but thats the pernt, we dont know yet

hes the guy and is going to get most if not all next season to grow into the job. there will be no qb drafted high by the bills no matter what next season. deal wid it
You're on the "I'm a total tool" side of the discussion?

shocking.

[Typ0]

It's very hard to tell where EJ will land. It's a very normal part of the learning process to get bottled up and stop moving forward for spurts. So I think the Jury is just out on EJ and we, as fans, only see him on gameday so how can we really tell? The only thing that is clear is right now he's not the guy we need him to be and the future is unknown. That being said if they put all their eggs in EJ's basket they are idiots IMO.

[SquishDaFish]

WTF is it with you people. You want Fitz gone and for the Bills to draft a QB in the 1st rd for once. Not only do they do it but they trade down and get value and still get their guy. Give the ****ing rookie some damn time. A handful of games is not enough. Go look at Mannings first year. It takes time to become something good at QB (usually) but also takes time to know you failed at the pick. GIVE HIM TIME and lets build around him. We are one of the youngest teams in football. GIVE IT TIME

[feldspar]

Russ Brandon is the mistake.

Just curious as to what you think Russ Brandon actually does, or has done in the past. Can you explain it to us?

I'm not defending him in any way, shape or form, but I think a lot of people don't even have a single clue about his actual responsibilities when they rip into him.

[WagonCircler]

The thing I love about Manziell is that he throws like a shortstop, but he can throw like a QB, too. And accurate either way. He can be accurate at any arm angle, throwing off his back foot, front foot, or jumping in the air, throwing against his body or not.

And he's incredibly slippery, ala Russell Wilson.

I don't like that he's a douchebag, but other than that, I think he'll be a very good, possibly excellent NFL QB, if he can learn to be slippery in the pocket and he can handle reading NFL Defenses and making snap decisions.

[coastal]

Just curious as to what you think Russ Brandon actually does, or has done in the past. Can you explain it to us?

I'm not defending him in any way, shape or form, but I think a lot of people don't even have a single clue about his actual responsibilities when they rip into him.I know what he doesn't do... run an organization that has a successful on field product.

[Mouldsie]

Manziel is interesting. Not as good as Wilson IMO but will be drafted higher. RW may have paved the way for him.

[bills_7]

I would have like to see Lewis start that 2 nd half

[WagonCircler]

Manziel is interesting. Not as good as Wilson IMO but will be drafted higher. RW may have paved the way for him.

Nobody knew what Wilson was coming out of college, and Manziell is a better college QB than Wilson was.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The thing I love about Manziell is that he throws like a shortstop, but he can throw like a QB, too. And accurate either way. He can be accurate at any arm angle, throwing off his back foot, front foot, or jumping in the air, throwing against his body or not.

And he's incredibly slippery, ala Russell Wilson.

I don't like that he's a douchebag, but other than that, I think he'll be a very good, possibly excellent NFL QB, if he can learn to be slippery in the pocket and he can handle reading NFL Defenses and making snap decisions.

The Wilson comparisons are not good ones IMO. Wilson has a truly absurd wingspan, nearly 6" longer than his height. This gives him the release point of a guy several inches taller and the corresponding throwing power of a taller man. He's also one of the most disciplined players in the league. He's got some of those highlight reel scrambles where he's trying to make something happen, but in general his game is efficiency. Running out of bounds rather than trying to juke 3 guys, throwing the pass at his halfbacks' feet on a busted protection, etc. The sort of smart decisions a QB can make when he's comfortable and got an elite D and running game. I have to imagine that's born out of being a 4 year starter at two programs which run pro-style passing reads.

Manziel is a great athlete, but he's an improviser who is going to make a lot of mistakes trying to force things that aren't there or outrun guys who can catch him. I'd like to have him on my team but I wouldn't take him in the top 10.

[WagonCircler]

The Wilson comparisons are not good ones IMO. Wilson has a truly absurd wingspan, nearly 6" longer than his height. This gives him the release point of a guy several inches taller and the corresponding throwing power of a taller man. He's also one of the most disciplined players in the league. He's got some of those highlight reel scrambles where he's trying to make something happen, but in general his game is efficiency. Running out of bounds rather than trying to juke 3 guys, throwing the pass at his halfbacks' feet on a busted protection, etc. The sort of smart decisions a QB can make when he's comfortable and got an elite D and running game. I have to imagine that's born out of being a 4 year starter at two programs which run pro-style passing reads.

Manziel is a great athlete, but he's an improviser who is going to make a lot of mistakes trying to force things that aren't there or outrun guys who can catch him. I'd like to have him on my team but I wouldn't take him in the top 10.

In my original post I said that Manziell was "slippery" like Wilson, which he is. And regardless of his measurables, he had to transfer out of NC State in the time that it has taken Manzieil to win a Heisman.

Maziell's ability to throw accurately from so many different arm angles and on the run could easily compensate from the shorter wing span. I see him as Michael Vick with less speed but 200% more accuracy.

He's an improviser, but he can play it straight as well. He may make mistakes, he may not. He may turn out to be what Flutie might have been if he was a full sized football player.

One thing I know for sure, I'd enjoy watching him a lot more than the Trent Edwards clone we currently have at QB.

[Mouldsie]

Nobody knew what Wilson was coming out of college, and Manziell is a better college QB than Wilson was.
People that watched RW knew what he was. He made some awesome plays in college and more importantly he always made the right plays. Talent around him wasn't always great.

[WagonCircler]

People that watched RW knew what he was.

Really? Like Tom O'Brien?

[Uncle Jesse]

Manuel never once in college made me think, "Wow this dude is awesome." He still hasn't shown any franchise QB flashes this year. I don't know why it's so hard to see that from people who love him so much and say he's young. I never was a fan, and didn't want him, and I'm seeing why.

He's a more mobile Trent Edwards with a stronger, less accurate arm.

[Uncle Jesse]

WTF is it with you people. You want Fitz gone and for the Bills to draft a QB in the 1st rd for once. Not only do they do it but they trade down and get value and still get their guy. Give the ****ing rookie some damn time. A handful of games is not enough. Go look at Mannings first year. It takes time to become something good at QB (usually) but also takes time to know you failed at the pick. GIVE HIM TIME and lets build around him. We are one of the youngest teams in football. GIVE IT TIME


Atleast the Mannings wow'd you in college and you knew they we're good QBs. Manuel never even did that. He was always just decent. Usually between college and your rookie year, you'd make people think you're a franchise guy in some fashion.

However, being mobile, inaccurate, and checking down most of the time, isn't really wow'ing anyone. If you or anyone can't tell Manuel isn't a franchise guy, even dating back to college, you are either in denial, or just clueless about football.

[Cleve]

Basically this is really what wrong with the Bills. Ralph turns the team over to a ticket salesman. Which tells me this team only cares about being good enough to sell tickets.

People are gullible. Brandon is the used-car salesman who'd put sawdust in the transmission of a clunker and convince some yokel buyer that it was a cream-puff.

Many Bills fans are Brandon's 'yokel buyers'. But the even bigger con being perpetrated on clueless Bills fans is deflecting all attention away from that old "man behind the curtain" onto Brandon. This team will go NOWHERE while Ralph Wilson Jr. is the owner.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

the bills will not draft another QB for the next 3 years

[Cleve]

Atleast the Mannings wow'd you in college and you knew they we're good QBs. Manuel never even did that. He was always just decent. Usually between college and your rookie year, you'd make people think you're a franchise guy in some fashion.

However, being mobile, inaccurate, and checking down most of the time, isn't really wow'ing anyone. If you or anyone can't tell Manuel isn't a franchise guy, even dating back to college, you are either in denial, or just clueless about football.

That old bumbler, Buddy Nix, bypassed a number of better QB classes, and waited until one of the worst QB classes in memory to draft a QB. Even if he'd waited until this year, he'd have had a much stronger QB class..... but no, Nix HAD to draft last year.

And I don't see any glimmers of hope with Manuel. He makes terrible decisions - he's dumb like Losman under pressure.

[k-oneputt]

the bills will not draft another QB for the next 3 years

That's the whole point.
The "brains" in the font office "think" they have their qb of the future, and they don't.
They will most likely have a top-10 draft pick with some good qb's coming out and we can't afford for them to screw it up again.

[trapezeus]

Just curious as to what you think Russ Brandon actually does, or has done in the past. Can you explain it to us?

I'm not defending him in any way, shape or form, but I think a lot of people don't even have a single clue about his actual responsibilities when they rip into him.

i don't think he knows what his responsibilities are.

The bills football program is ugly. it can't develop players (players come in, plateau, leave and get better). That is part of having hte wrong front office, the wrong coaches, the wrong scouts. They keep redeveloping it because he doesn't know what he's doing. the fans want good, he can't find a program that works and he keeps tickering because he doesn't know.

and to make thing worse, it seems like he learned from the greatest meddler in the world in ralph. he seems to think he knows what he's doing, but he just makes it worse.

[jdaltroy5]

If there's a franchise QB on the board when we pick, I'm all for taking him.

However, a lot of you are pissed that we reached on a QB last year, so your solution for that would be to just reach on another QB this year.

And I don't even want to touch Manziel in the first round. I think he'd rather be a celebrity than a quarterback and his drinking and anger issues would scare me off.

He reminds me of Ryan Leaf.

[Mahdi]

WTF is it with you people. You want Fitz gone and for the Bills to draft a QB in the 1st rd for once. Not only do they do it but they trade down and get value and still get their guy. Give the ****ing rookie some damn time. A handful of games is not enough. Go look at Mannings first year. It takes time to become something good at QB (usually) but also takes time to know you failed at the pick. GIVE HIM TIME and lets build around him. We are one of the youngest teams in football. GIVE IT TIME

Manning threw a bunch of INTs as a rookie but his playmaking skills, TDs, accuracy was very evident. EJ is inaccurate which is a huge concern because its something not easy to fix. You are either accurate or inaccurate. He also looks confused out there.

[k-oneputt]

Bridgewater, Bortles, Hundley, Manziel.... right now I would take any of those four and consider it an upgrade over the stiff.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

In my original post I said that Manziell was "slippery" like Wilson, which he is. And regardless of his measurables, he had to transfer out of NC State in the time that it has taken Manzieil to win a Heisman.

Wilson didn't transfer due to disclipline issues or anything, he left because he tried his hand at baseball and the staff declined to hold his scholarship.


Maziell's ability to throw accurately from so many different arm angles and on the run could easily compensate from the shorter wing span. I see him as Michael Vick with less speed but 200% more accuracy.

He's an improviser, but he can play it straight as well. He may make mistakes, he may not. He may turn out to be what Flutie might have been if he was a full sized football player.

One thing I know for sure, I'd enjoy watching him a lot more than the Trent Edwards clone we currently have at QB.

I don't know that he can play it straight and still be successful. It took Flutie years and years and a stint in the CFL to develop the knowledge of the game he needed to overcome his flaws as a passer, and he was a four-year starter. Manziel will only be a two year starter coming into the league so he's got that much more to learn about the game.

The Vick comparison is an interesting one, because you have previously lambasted Vick's play style to hell and back. Why would you draft Manziel if he reminds you of it? You've often said that pocket passers are the keys to success in this league and held up Manning as an example. Manning couldn't be further from Manziel: efficient, organized to a fault, perfectly tuned mechanics, etc.

[Mad Max]

Basically this is really what wrong with the Bills. Ralph turns the team over to a ticket salesman. Which tells me this team only cares about being good enough to sell tickets.

A ticket salesman who cants sell tickets. The problem is Ralph. He is what ails this franchise, all else are merely symptoms.

[UltimateBillsFan]

We know what we're getting with EJ Manuel. His career at Florida State was defined by the inconsistency that we've seen out of him this year. He was lights out in college lots of weeks, but when he was off, he was way off. And unfortunately we've seen this transition to the NFL this year, only we've seen about two of those "lights-out" games and the rest have been sub-par at best. Do we want to waste three years with this guy? No, we should take a quarterback. But if any of you believe that the guys at One Bills Drive are going to take a quarterback, you're delusional. We're destined for many more years of the same ****.

[WagonCircler]

Wilson didn't transfer due to disclipline issues or anything, he left because he tried his hand at baseball and the staff declined to hold his scholarship..

I didn't say he transferred due to disciplinary issues. Regardless of the reasons, if you compare where Manziell is to where Wilson was at the same point in their respective college careers, Manziell is infinitely more accomplished.

And I have lambasted Vick's game because he's breathtakingly inaccurate, be it on the run or from the pocket. The huge difference to me is that Manziell is able to put the ball where he wants/needs to regardless of the situation.

Manziell has the tools to be the type of QB with the sixth sense of Dan Marino, escapability of Roethlisberger and the improv skills of Flutie.

He may very well be an undisciplined douchebag who doesn't learn, but his skills make him worth the gamble, in my opinion.

Vick was, for years, a run first guy. Later, out of necessity, he stayed in the pocket more, but still sucked because he's too stupid to grasp complex defenses and not accurate enough to be an NFL QB, were it not for his athleticism.

If you could turn Manziell into what Vick might have been, a guy who can take off and run two or three times a game, but who, more importantly, uses his quickness and instincts to escape tacklers in the pocket so he can make throws, then you've got something.

I hate Vick's game, but if he'd have been coachable and used his athletic talents properly, and if he could hit the broad side of a barn, he could have been amazing.

Manziell still has that chance. I don't know if he'll get there, but his ceiling is way higher than EJ's.

[The Jokeman]

Should have had AJ green. Dumb Buddy.

and you think our D would be as good without Dareus? The dumbest move Buddy made was taking Spiller instead of Dez Bryant. As imagine an offense with Lynch/Jackson and Bryant on the outside and Stevie in the slot.

[Homegrown]

Draft a QB each round .. 1 through 7

[The Jokeman]

I didn't say he transferred due to disciplinary issues. Regardless of the reasons, if you compare where Manziell is to where Wilson was at the same point in their respective college careers, Manziell is infinitely more accomplished.

And I have lambasted Vick's game because he's breathtakingly inaccurate, be it on the run or from the pocket. The huge difference to me is that Manziell is able to put the ball where he wants/needs to regardless of the situation.

Manziell has the tools to be the type of QB with the sixth sense of Dan Marino, escapability of Roethlisberger and the improv skills of Flutie.

He may very well be an undisciplined douchebag who doesn't learn, but his skills make him worth the gamble, in my opinion.

Vick was, for years, a run first guy. Later, out of necessity, he stayed in the pocket more, but still sucked because he's too stupid to grasp complex defenses and not accurate enough to be an NFL QB, were it not for his athleticism.

If you could turn Manziell into what Vick might have been, a guy who can take off and run two or three times a game, but who, more importantly, uses his quickness and instincts to escape tacklers in the pocket so he can make throws, then you've got something.

I hate Vick's game, but if he'd have been coachable and used his athletic talents properly, and if he could hit the broad side of a barn, he could have been amazing.

Manziell still has that chance. I don't know if he'll get there, but his ceiling is way higher than EJ's.

The problem with Vick is he takes too many hits and too small for his body to sustain them. Manziel is small as well and not sure he has the sheer athleticism that Vick has.

[WagonCircler]

The problem with Vick is he takes too many hits and too small for his body to sustain them. Manziel is small as well and not sure he has the sheer athleticism that Vick has.

I agree, but if Manziell could learn to be disciplined, the way Wilson is, who's even smaller, he could be lethal. You can teach discipline, but you can't teach talent. And you can't teach Vick anything.

Hey, I'm totally fine with somebody like McCarron or whoever, I just think Manziell is fun to watch. Not because of the running, because of the unorthodox, yet accurate passes.

I have no idea if he'll be successful, but my point is, nobody knows.

I have a pretty good idea about EJ, though. He's a guy who can perform well with excellent protection, but turns to ****** without it. This does not bode well for his future.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree, but if Manziell could learn to be disciplined, the way Wilson is, who's even smaller, he could be lethal. You can teach discipline, but you can't teach talent. And you can't teach Vick anything.

Hey, I'm totally fine with somebody like McCarron or whoever, I just think Manziell is fun to watch. Not because of the running, because of the unorthodox, yet accurate passes.

I have no idea if he'll be successful, but my point is, nobody knows.

I have a pretty good idea about EJ, though. He's a guy who can perform well with excellent protection, but turns to ****** without it. This does not bode well for his future.Have you seen this article?

“Yeah, it could come unraveled. And when it does, it’s gonna be bad. Real bad,” Paul Manziel said. “It’s one night away from the phone ringing, and he’s in jail. And you know what he’s gonna say? ‘It’s better than all the pressure I’ve been under. This is better than that.’”

Manziel’s dad also said that his son drinks to deal with stress, and has anger issues that cause concern for the family.
“I don’t know where the anger comes from,” Paul said. “I don’t think he knows. If it comes from his drinking, or if he’s mad at himself for not being a better person when he fails, when he fails God and his mom and me. If it makes him angry that he’s got demons in him. You can only speculate because you can’t go in there.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/30/johnny-manziels-dad-worries-it-could-all-come-unraveled/

[WagonCircler]

Have you seen this article?

“Yeah, it could come unraveled. And when it does, it’s gonna be bad. Real bad,” Paul Manziel said. “It’s one night away from the phone ringing, and he’s in jail. And you know what he’s gonna say? ‘It’s better than all the pressure I’ve been under. This is better than that.’”

Manziel’s dad also said that his son drinks to deal with stress, and has anger issues that cause concern for the family.
“I don’t know where the anger comes from,” Paul said. “I don’t think he knows. If it comes from his drinking, or if he’s mad at himself for not being a better person when he fails, when he fails God and his mom and me. If it makes him angry that he’s got demons in him. You can only speculate because you can’t go in there.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/30/johnny-manziels-dad-worries-it-could-all-come-unraveled/

To me, this is the real downside to him. It's not the football stuff. If something keeps him back, it will be this.

[SquishDaFish]

Atleast the Mannings wow'd you in college and you knew they we're good QBs. Manuel never even did that. He was always just decent. Usually between college and your rookie year, you'd make people think you're a franchise guy in some fashion.

However, being mobile, inaccurate, and checking down most of the time, isn't really wow'ing anyone. If you or anyone can't tell Manuel isn't a franchise guy, even dating back to college, you are either in denial, or just clueless about football.

Im not saying I think hes def going to be a franchise QB. Ive just been pissed off with this organization going with journyman type QBs and drafting QBs later other than Lossman. So Im just happy they actually picked someone in 1st who they thought could be the guy. So Im willing to see in year 2 if the team shows its going in the right direction and not just off of 4-6 starts. Thats all

[k-oneputt]

EJ Manuel is not the answer. Do the right thing and draft a qb with the top-10 2014 draft pick.

It is your move front office. Don't screw it up AGAIN.

[DynaPaul]

Fire Brandon.

[alohabillsfan]

You put EJ as the starter for the patriots and they go 3-13 at best. To bad EJ is inaccurate and injury prone. Keep swinging we will hit on a franchise QB someday :)

[swiper]

EJ Manuel is not the answer. Do the right thing and draft a qb with the top-10 2014 draft pick.

Couldn't agree more. It will be interesting to see what OBD feels about what they've seen from Manuel this season. Very disappointing not to see him this week. These last 2 games would likely leave a lasting impression with them (and us) over the winter. And the fact that the Redskins recently took 2 fairly high profile QBs in the same draft, may open the door for Buffalo to do what you're suggesting.

- - - Updated - - -


Fire Brandon.

Replace the owner.

The new owner will fire Brandon.

[better days]

i don't think he knows what his responsibilities are.

The bills football program is ugly. it can't develop players (players come in, plateau, leave and get better). That is part of having hte wrong front office, the wrong coaches, the wrong scouts. They keep redeveloping it because he doesn't know what he's doing. the fans want good, he can't find a program that works and he keeps tickering because he doesn't know.

and to make thing worse, it seems like he learned from the greatest meddler in the world in ralph. he seems to think he knows what he's doing, but he just makes it worse.

So you think Gailey was worse than Jauron & you think Marrone is worse than both of them.

Well, I TOTALLY disagree with that.