Marrone's presser... Changes are coming?

[X-Era]

He was pretty clear that he will be playing some guys because he wants to see who can win.

Not much of a leap to then look at who he's talking about as coming in and then look at who may be headed out the door.

Unga- We bring him in to get snaps at RG. We already know LG is an issue. Urbik may very well be under fire as well. I feel like Urbik is decent but if we want an upgrade and are willing to get a legit upgrade, that's a good thing.

Gragg and the signing of Moeaki- Chandler is a UFA but I think he's very much on the outs and probably gone. He doesn't fit the fast paced offense they want to run. A guy like Eric Ebron might be ideal in this offense.

Summers- Interesting move here. They want to see another FB. Summers may have fallen out of favor. Rodriguez may be a stop gap. A UFA is probably the most likely route for a replacement but the draft isn't out of the question.

Goodwin- Marrone says he wants him playing more. Then says Graham is progressing. I think Stevie and/or Graham are very much on the hot seat. I want to see us get bigger, stronger, and still have speed. I don't necessarily want possession receivers if they are slow. But if they are still productive like Mike Evans for example fine. Having size, bulk, and speed would be ideal like with Moncrief or even Watkins and Lee over Graham.

McKelvin- Had only good things to say despite his fumbles and coverage issues. I think he likes him for some reason.

It will not shock me to see Stevie, Chandler, and Graham all gone along with Summers. I felt this year could be an eval year and that's why we didn't spend much cap. And if some big players get sent packing I'd hope we make some big moves in FA but we may not. Regardless, I think Marrone is serving notice that you better show you're a tough minded competitor who's going to play out this year full steam or you may be gone.

Stevie has been my favorite player since the SB years. But, I'm not sure it's wise to pay that much for a slot receiver with the dropsies. I'd rather go size and sure hands for less money. Then add a stud play-maker at the outside opposite Woods.

Chandler is gone. I bet we look early in FA or the draft for a receiving threat at TE.

I think LG and possibly RG are very much spots where you will see change at the starting position. Wouldn't surprise me is even RT is up for grabs.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Westerman is gone and Meeks is activated. Kaufman was brought back in and signed to the practice squad. Unga will play more. I think this offseason is going to be more interesting than most.

[WagonCircler]

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[HAMMER]

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Ain't that the truth.

[SquishDaFish]

Exactly what I thought this year would be. Never thought playoffs. Thats why Im willing to give it a second year to see how the direction of this team looks.

[coastal]

Brandon Pettigrew
Michael Oher

[OpIv37]

Chandler signed his own death warrant with that fumble in Toronto. I think he was already on the outs and that was the last straw.

Unfortunately, I doubt Stevie is going anywhere.

[BillsFever21]

I think LG and possibly RG are very much spots where you will see change at the starting position. Wouldn't surprise me is even RT is up for grabs.

The only guys assured spots for 2014 are obviously Glenn and Wood. Maybe Urbik will stick just because we already need a guard after letting Levitre walk and not replacing him. Pears isn't anything special and I could see us drafting one next year.

That's why I thought it was laughable when some claimed we had one of the best OL in the NFL going into this season. The only reason why they thought that was because of all the quick passes/decisions that Fitzpatrick made and that Gailey had a good run blocking scheme to get Spiller loose. They weren't any good at holding their pass blocks for long last year and is even worse this season. The loss of Levitre didn't help any.

[kishoph]

Brandon Pettigrew
Michael Oher

You must have seen the movie right ? The one were he hasn't given up 9 sacks in 13 games.

[The Jokeman]

He was pretty clear that he will be playing some guys because he wants to see who can win.

Not much of a leap to then look at who he's talking about as coming in and then look at who may be headed out the door.

Unga- We bring him in to get snaps at RG. We already know LG is an issue. Urbik may very well be under fire as well. I feel like Urbik is decent but if we want an upgrade and are willing to get a legit upgrade, that's a good thing.

Gragg and the signing of Moeaki- Chandler is a UFA but I think he's very much on the outs and probably gone. He doesn't fit the fast paced offense they want to run. A guy like Eric Ebron might be ideal in this offense.

Summers- Interesting move here. They want to see another FB. Summers may have fallen out of favor. Rodriguez may be a stop gap. A UFA is probably the most likely route for a replacement but the draft isn't out of the question.

Goodwin- Marrone says he wants him playing more. Then says Graham is progressing. I think Stevie and/or Graham are very much on the hot seat. I want to see us get bigger, stronger, and still have speed. I don't necessarily want possession receivers if they are slow. But if they are still productive like Mike Evans for example fine. Having size, bulk, and speed would be ideal like with Moncrief or even Watkins and Lee over Graham.

McKelvin- Had only good things to say despite his fumbles and coverage issues. I think he likes him for some reason.

It will not shock me to see Stevie, Chandler, and Graham all gone along with Summers. I felt this year could be an eval year and that's why we didn't spend much cap. And if some big players get sent packing I'd hope we make some big moves in FA but we may not. Regardless, I think Marrone is serving notice that you better show you're a tough minded competitor who's going to play out this year full steam or you may be gone.

Stevie has been my favorite player since the SB years. But, I'm not sure it's wise to pay that much for a slot receiver with the dropsies. I'd rather go size and sure hands for less money. Then add a stud play-maker at the outside opposite Woods.

Chandler is gone. I bet we look early in FA or the draft for a receiving threat at TE.

I think LG and possibly RG are very much spots where you will see change at the starting position. Wouldn't surprise me is even RT is up for grabs.


Unga getting playing time tells me we need to find ourself a LG. I don't mind giving Unga a chance as Legursky is a career backup.

Gragg/Moecki are getting a look to see how high a priority we have at TE this offseason. Now I rank it #1 offseason need for improvement. The question can either of these guys step up as a #1 or are they going to be a #3. I doubt he gets the franchise tag but I'd make a big play for DENNIS PITTA in UFA.

Summers is a traditional FB and has played well in his role. Rodriguez is an H-back type which could give the Bills a new wrinkle to the offense or another guy that EJ can start dumping off to and maybe give matchup problems. See Charles Clay in Miami type role.

Goodwin is better than I gave him credit for but he's nothing special in my eyes. The Bills need to find a #2 WR and no one has stepped up consistently. Graham has been invisible most of the season. Woods was good early on but never really produced of late because of the injury. He might be a guy that could be good in 2015.

McKelvin has shown we he's always shown great at keeping with his man but no ball skills. He's an okay #2 CB ideally I'd like to replace bring in a veteran to compete with him for the #2/3 CB Spot. Robey's been good but I don't know long term how good he's going to be.

[The Jokeman]

Brandon Pettigrew
Michael Oher

Pettigrew is interesting. I think he's an upgrade to Chandler but not sure if he's a great passing threat I'd rank him maybe 4th among UFA TEs. My top guys are Graham (who will be franchised), Pitta, Olsen and than Pettigrew.

[BertSquirtgum]

Steve johnson is gone after the year. Guy is a huge douche and I don't know the rookies learning from him. Marrone should cut him and let it be known that kind of attitude won't be tolerated.

[The Jokeman]

Steve johnson is gone after the year. Guy is a huge douche and I don't know the rookies learning from him. Marrone should cut him and let it be known that kind of attitude won't be tolerated.

Who you going to replace him with?

[BertSquirtgum]

Who you going to replace him with?

Who cares. His attitude is a detriment to this team.

[Jeff1220]

I like Stevie...as a number two. He just isn't reliable enough, let alone dominant enough, to be a good number one.

[The Jokeman]

Who cares. His attitude is a detriment to this team.

This team has a habit of creating holes when you don't have to. Stevie is like the fans, he's tired of losing and wants to be part of something better. I don't blame him. Is he an ideal #1 WR? Nope but if you pair him with a serviceable secondary option and think he'll be more valuable assuming he's healthy.

[BertSquirtgum]

Did you see his quote after the game? About the pass that hit his hands and was intercepted? His attitude is garbage and a bad attitude is very contagious. They should definitely trade him after this year. Personally, if I was the coach, I would cut him just to send a message to the rest of the guys. If the guy isn't trying and being a *****, it won't hurt the team at all. Look at how well the team did with douche bag sitting on the bench in the Jets game.

[feldspar]

You must have seen the movie right ? The one were he hasn't given up 9 sacks in 13 games.

I've seen that movie.

I believe it's called "The Side in Plain Sight."

[X-Era]

Brandon Pettigrew
Michael Oher
Oher I would definitely take. Loved Pettigrew at Ok St but he never really lived up to expectation.

Stevie won't easily be replaced from the standpoint that he's one of the best in the league at getting separation. I think you can get a bigger and better playmaker but it will take time to develop and may take a few iterations.

It sucks but when you can one of your best players (on the field, minus the drops and attitude) you then may really struggle to replace the production.

[trapezeus]

These changes just come off as desperate. he seems to be like all the others bills coaches of the last 14 years. he talks a big game about an identity, then deviates from that identity from the get go. As the season wears on, the roster changes are just changing broken piece for broken piece.

It begins to seem like we were sold yet another lemon.

The evaluations seem ridiculous. is this crappy player going to be a little less crappy than the other crappy player? People who are supposed to be top of their class elite do not perform that way. the ones who aren't supposed to be in the NFL or playing any significant minutes is going to change that?

Summers struck me as a pretty good FB in the first half of the season.

[Mahdi]

Brandon Pettigrew
Michael Oher

More than half the league will be after those two. Blocking TE with very good receiving skills and a top notch RT.

[OpIv37]

This team has a habit of creating holes when you don't have to. Stevie is like the fans, he's tired of losing and wants to be part of something better. I don't blame him. Is he an ideal #1 WR? Nope but if you pair him with a serviceable secondary option and think he'll be more valuable assuming he's healthy.

WR is a hole with Stevie. He's not clutch and he failed to help the youn QB far more often than not this year. And he never takes responsibility for his mistakes.

I was watching a ND game a few weeks ago and the announcers said the difference between a good QB and a bad QB really comes down to 5 or 6 plays a game. Well, two weeks in a row, Manuel made the play and Stevie ****ed it up on him. Sure, Manuel has had his share of issues, but he's a rookie at the hardest position on the field. Guys like Stevie are supposed to step up and help him out, but all Stevie did was make his usual mistakes followed by his usual finger-pointing.

We need a guy that can be counted on to make that big catch over the middle late in a close game. Stevie is not that guy and never will be.

[Pinkerton Security]

WR is a hole with Stevie. He's not clutch and he failed to help the youn QB far more often than not this year. And he never takes responsibility for his mistakes.

I was watching a ND game a few weeks ago and the announcers said the difference between a good QB and a bad QB really comes down to 5 or 6 plays a game. Well, two weeks in a row, Manuel made the play and Stevie ****ed it up on him. Sure, Manuel has had his share of issues, but he's a rookie at the hardest position on the field. Guys like Stevie are supposed to step up and help him out, but all Stevie did was make his usual mistakes followed by his usual finger-pointing.

We need a guy that can be counted on to make that big catch over the middle late in a close game. Stevie is not that guy and never will be.

Complain all you want, it doesnt matter. Stevie isnt going anywhere - are we going to take the cap hit necessary to cut him? I doubt it. (Side note: what would the cap hit actually be if we were to cut him with 3 years left on his contract?)

Yes, we need a guy who can make clutch catches, but without Stevie, we barely have anyone who can make ANY catches. Woods is a future star, but Graham is horrible, Goodwin is a good deep threat but so far little else, Chandler is worthless, and anyone else isnt even worth mentioning.

Just like with Dareus, people's blind anger and personal vendettas against guys blind them to the fact that WE DONT HAVE MUCH TALENT!!! Just cutting guys isnt going to make us better, whether people like to admit it or not.

[OpIv37]

I agree Stevie's not going anywhere. But the reality is that it's a hole whether the FO acknowledges it or not. Stevie would probably be good in a #2 role but I doubt this FO goes after a true #1 as long as Stevie is on the roster.

Our only hope is that someone like Woods emerges as a true #1. Of course, then we still need a 3rd WR and depth because Goodwin and Graham aren't very good. I still have some hope for Goodwin and at least he contributes on S/T. Graham, on the other hand, is useless at this point IMO.

[Jeff1220]

I'd be extremely happy if the Bills had a WR corps like this:

WR 1: Big, fast stud
WRs 2&3: Stevie & Woods

[Meathead]

you and about twenty nine other nfl teams

the big fast wr1 that can play is a rarity and only a few teams have that. with woods and stevie you dont really have a clear cut wr1 but you have two terrific wr1.5s that can cause defenses trouble

if they can draft a really good wr high then goforit but theyve got enough holes elsewhere that it would be somewhat of a luxury

[feldspar]

(Side note: what would the cap hit actually be if we were to cut him with 3 years left on his contract?)


If we were to cut him, it would be an $8.5 million cap hit in dead money. If he is on the roster, Stevie counts $8.5 million against the cap...exactly the same.

You are right, Stevie isn't going anywhere. Stevie is a good player, too. He's not a great player and I don't know where his head's at, but he's a good player.

[Historian]

I kid McKelvin about his intellegence level, but he is our 2nd best defensive back, imo. It's a tough position, and you need a real short memory. In today's game, you're going to get burned...simply because that's what the rules are set up for.

OTOH, he can be a game changer with his return skills. I always thought he had great moves, and decent speed.

[coastal]

Oher I would definitely take. Loved Pettigrew at Ok St but he never really lived up to expectation.

Stevie won't easily be replaced from the standpoint that he's one of the best in the league at getting separation. I think you can get a bigger and better playmaker but it will take time to develop and may take a few iterations.

It sucks but when you can one of your best players (on the field, minus the drops and attitude) you then may really struggle to replace the production.
The strength of Pettigrew and Oher is run blocking.

pettigrew isn't a seam buster but more of a physical all-purpose throwback.

considering we've got Freddie and CJ... Brandon would compliment that well. After all, Reggie Bush is having a career year in Detroit. Brandon is a part of that and I believe fits in well with a run heavy focus team. It's called building to a strength.

Here's a good article on Brandon...

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/11/detroit_lions_brandon_pettigre_3.html

As far as Oher's problems this year... Not really sure what's going on but the whole Baltimore oline has struggled. If there are no health or head issues, again Oher is built to run block and be a dominant RT.

Build to a strength and then draft Johnny Football.

[Mr. Pink]

The only way Stevie goes anywhere is if they can find a trade partner. Actually, that wouldn't be too hard to do. He's a guy still in his prime and has put up really good numbers with a bunch of junk QBs and can actually run routes. Don't know what kind of value you'd give him as he's not elite but he is good...so I'd say likely a 2nd or 3rd. He won't be cut because of his contract which is why I said before imagine how much of a laughingstock this franchise will be if he's cut. He counts the same against the cap if he's here or cut.

You want Pettigrew? Prepare to overpay. If he hits the open market, he'll be overpaid. We know how much people around here like keeping money in Ralphies pocket though.

Chandler is done here. He'll be relegated to bench duty somewhere else next year. People who think Moeaki was added to show a different option? Why? He likely won't see the field this year. Marrone seems to like Gragg.

Guard is a HUGE need. Tight End is a HUGE need. Getting rid of Stevie would make WR a HUGE need. A veteran backup QB to mentor EJ is a HUGE need - I'll leave my personal opinion out of him.

At this point, making this little roster moves is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as someone else said though.

[Don't Panic]

WR is a hole with Stevie. He's not clutch and he failed to help the youn QB far more often than not this year. And he never takes responsibility for his mistakes.

I was watching a ND game a few weeks ago and the announcers said the difference between a good QB and a bad QB really comes down to 5 or 6 plays a game. Well, two weeks in a row, Manuel made the play and Stevie ****ed it up on him. Sure, Manuel has had his share of issues, but he's a rookie at the hardest position on the field. Guys like Stevie are supposed to step up and help him out, but all Stevie did was make his usual mistakes followed by his usual finger-pointing.

We need a guy that can be counted on to make that big catch over the middle late in a close game. Stevie is not that guy and never will be.

I agree. He is a good receiver but a liability. The Stevie as a #1 WR experiment needs to come to an end. Manuel needs big targets who can go get a ball, not guys who need it in a perfect place or they will struggle to catch it. Stevie is great for a precision passer in a system based on timing routes. He would flourish if he kept his head on right in a system like that.

Woods and Goodwin are fits. We're not getting a Calvin Johnson anytime soon, but it would be nice if we had a Boldin-like WR to balance out our corps. Maybe SF would do a Stevie for Boldin swap. Otherwise, we need to hit up FA and find someone with those types of qualities.

[bdutton]

Stevie has been my favorite player since the SB years. But, I'm not sure it's wise to pay that much for a slot receiver with the dropsies. I'd rather go size and sure hands for less money. Then add a stud play-maker at the outside opposite Woods.

Let Stevie and TJ walk and put Hogan in the slot. I like Goodwin's speed. Let him play outside along with Woods. Pick up another receiver in the draft.


Chandler is gone. I bet we look early in FA or the draft for a receiving threat at TE.

Might want to take a stab at getting Jimmy Graham... leading in yards received for TE's. I still like Chandler. He only has the one fumble and he's tough. If we can't sign him to a reasonable deal, we will need to pick up a TE in the draft.


I think LG and possibly RG are very much spots where you will see change at the starting position. Wouldn't surprise me is even RT is up for grabs.

Agreed. the o-line play must improve and we might as well see what we got.

We should also look at getting some depth at OLB.

I love what Kiko has done as a Rookie. He's going to be the heart of the defense for years to come if he stays healthy.

[bdutton]

Chandler is done here. He'll be relegated to bench duty somewhere else next year. People who think Moeaki was added to show a different option? Why? He likely won't see the field this year. Marrone seems to like Gragg.

Not sure of why all the Chandler hate.

He's been a solid TE. One fumble. ONE.

He's 16th in receptions and yards for TE's. Not great... but a serviceable TE.

[Historian]

He's dropped everything thrown at him.

Time to move on.

[coastal]

Chandler is a backup TE

[BertSquirtgum]

The only way Stevie goes anywhere is if they can find a trade partner. Actually, that wouldn't be too hard to do. He's a guy still in his prime and has put up really good numbers with a bunch of junk QBs and can actually run routes. Don't know what kind of value you'd give him as he's not elite but he is good...so I'd say likely a 2nd or 3rd. He won't be cut because of his contract which is why I said before imagine how much of a laughingstock this franchise will be if he's cut. He counts the same against the cap if he's here or cut.

You want Pettigrew? Prepare to overpay. If he hits the open market, he'll be overpaid. We know how much people around here like keeping money in Ralphies pocket though.

Chandler is done here. He'll be relegated to bench duty somewhere else next year. People who think Moeaki was added to show a different option? Why? He likely won't see the field this year. Marrone seems to like Gragg.

Guard is a HUGE need. Tight End is a HUGE need. Getting rid of Stevie would make WR a HUGE need. A veteran backup QB to mentor EJ is a HUGE need - I'll leave my personal opinion out of him.

At this point, making this little roster moves is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as someone else said though.

Left guard and right tackle are the biggest needs this offseason.

[trapezeus]

frankly, marrone was supposed to be able to help with the OL based on his time as an OL player and coach. And the team looks no better than the worst of the last 13 years. So where is the value in Marrone?

There is a whole level of people who need to step UP and no one other than Kiko has done that for long periods of time. Maybe a few have had inspired efforts here and there, but one player with a memorable season doing set you up for the playoffs.

[sudzy]

These move reek of desperation.

[Oaf]

Unga- We bring him in to get snaps at RG. We already know LG is an issue. Urbik may very well be under fire as well. I feel like Urbik is decent but if we want an upgrade and are willing to get a legit upgrade, that's a good thing.



Why the eff couldn't you resign Rhinehart or Levitre, Brandon? Only to make us suffer for a season, and consume another high-round pick on a "maybe"?

[X-Era]

One guy I forgot to mention is Nigel Bradham. After his off-season mess he's been basically silent on the field. Too quiet. Going into the year I felt like pass rushing OLB who can also cover the TE's was still a need. But the very solid play of Lawson and emergence of Hughes has me thinking it may not be the need that it was.

However, playing Powell may signal that Bradham is on the hot seat and the off-season and in-season results may be showing that.

Now, I'm a big Khalil Mack fan but the question is whether he would be a fit for Bradhams role. I see Bradham as the SLB even though they list him as the starting WLB. Maybe Pettine wants OLB's that can play either side and it's not a factor. If that's the case, adding a playmaker like Mack and sending Bradham to the bench may make us even more potent on the pass rush and also upgrade our play-making at that spot.

[X-Era]

Why the eff couldn't you resign Rhinehart or Levitre, Brandon? Only to make us suffer for a season, and consume another high-round pick on a "maybe"?
Rhineheart will be a UFA again.

But if were blowing up the line like that I'd rather get legit prospects at both G spots or proven solid to above average vets.

We're supposed to be truly upgrading not re-treading re-treads.

[Forward_Lateral]

Brandon Pettigrew


No ***** thanks. He drops more balls than all of the Bills WR combined.

[k-oneputt]

Pettigrew, another guy the Bills where high on coming out of his draft class.

[WagonCircler]

the Bills where high.

This explains a great deal.

[k-oneputt]

This explains a great deal.

Sure does. Yr. 14.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

And you ain't just whistling Nearer Thy God to Thee either.