How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year?

[Guest]

I suck as a fan so I thought that perhaps the better fans here could explain it to me.

That 5th win last year did not teach the young players how to win last year since they lost their next 3 games before winning the last game of the season against the Jets to end up 6-10.

Those better fans than me must have felt great on Dec. 2nd, 2012 when we won. Do you remember it? Did it validate you for a day?

I'm not from Buffalo so I don't consider myself a loser when my hometown team loses a meaningless game.

I look forward to the future and hope that one more loss sends a clear signal to upper management just how much change is required to field a competitive team so they are not fooled into believing that their record indicates how good the team actually is.

[Ed]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

Different situation. Last year our coaching staff and QB were on their way out. We have a rookie HC and rookie QB now. Who knows what kind of impact winning/losing these games will have on the future.

[Guest]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

OK.

How about the Bills 6th win of the 2011 season on December 24th against the Broncos in another 6-10 season?

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

I look forward to the future and hope that one more loss sends a clear signal to upper management just how much change is required to field a competitive team so they are not fooled into believing that their record indicates how good the team actually is.

This is your concern? That our front office is going to get fooled into thinking that we're good?? Get a hobby outside of trolling.

[Guest]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

This is your concern? That our front office is going to get fooled into thinking that we're good?? Get a hobby outside of trolling.

They thought we were good enough -- good enough to sell tickets without spending the $20M under the cap.

[trapezeus]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

OK.

How about the Bills 6th win of the 2011 season on December 24th against the Broncos in another 6-10 season?

was that when we beat tebow while he was on his miraculous run? That was somewhat satisfying because i hate tebow. it did nothing for team morale, but you can't claim you have direct access to god if Chris Kelsay is making your life a living hell.

[X-Era]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

I suck as a fan so I thought that perhaps the better fans here could explain it to me.

That 5th win last year did not teach the young players how to win last year since they lost their next 3 games before winning the last game of the season against the Jets to end up 6-10.

Those better fans than me must have felt great on Dec. 2nd, 2012 when we won. Do you remember it? Did it validate you for a day?

I'm not from Buffalo so I don't consider myself a loser when my hometown team loses a meaningless game.

I look forward to the future and hope that one more loss sends a clear signal to upper management just how much change is required to field a competitive team so they are not fooled into believing that their record indicates how good the team actually is.

It's a great point.

The draft implications of a meaningless win is another place where this comes in.

There is so much change usually that the tangible benefits of a meaningless win for next years results are minimal at best. Can I see that every win helps us to become winners? Maybe. But let downs like this one after a big win against the Jets seem to say that's not the case.

How much does losing 5 draft slots matter in the draft? I'd say not much there either. There isn't clear proof that drafting 5 slots higher gives you a better player. There are some instances where that's true but it doesn't happen often enough to make it the rule. The draft is a huge crapshoot regardless so moving up or down by 5 slots (as an example) is like buying 3 Lotto tickets instead of 1.

Hell there has been a few times in the past decade where we've been in the playoff race late in the year and then stunk up the field the following year. We've also started out with a streak of wins and then finsihed with lots of losses.

To me what matters is improving the overall talent to a level where we can truly compete. Several key spots are inadequately manned and most depth is inadequate at best. That 20-30 mill in cap room would have made a huge dent in the depth problem but we chose not to do that. Well, when Nickel Robey is getting smoked for a TD by Vincent Jackson you can place the blame directly on depth and on the Bills Brass.

Significant changes are needed. Scheming, a few key starters (currently manned with expensive players) a few key starters (inadequately manned) and certainly depth. I'd like to see an upgrade in at least a half a dozen starting positions and as much as 50% of the backups. That's potentially 25-30 new players in my mind.

And winning a game or two now should have zero impact on stopping that level of change. Because if it does, you really can't truly evaluate talent and definetely don't know what a playoff caliber roster should look like as far as talent goes.

[Meathead]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

exactly what can a team really learn when theyre playing meaningless games against other teams in the same boat?

if it was against a team jockying for playoff position or even still just trying to eek out the last wc then yeah, but for two teams playing out the string i dont think much is learned beyond standard playing experience. so you beat the freakin jags woo hoo now you know how to beat the cheaters?

root for the win, then be relieved when they dont

[trapezeus]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

i do think the arguement of winning at the end of a season applies if you are winning and showing improvement. if the bills (as you know they will do) play a crappy game against a crappy opponent and can not give you a different product from the last 2 weeks but win, that isn't helping morale. that actually does nothing. they still suck, they still see they can get by if the breaks go their way and they've lost draft position.

however, if in these three weeks, they really show up. the penalties are down, the turnoveres are down, the offense is able to put up points and have more drives that move the ball than go 3 and out, the defense improves on 3rd down, and the ST are uneventful, then that is a really good thing. That shows that they are putting it together.

but with jax, miami and new englang, i can see them going 1-2 and really just being schlacked in the last two games. worst of all, you know they are going to get out coached in the second half of games.

in that light, winning 1 game won't mean much to morale. additionally, if the product in the last 3 weeks isn't significantly better, that little post game meeting, was yet another hallow gesture by this franchise.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

I know you are baiting, but it's not about "learning to win" that is a silly cliche.

It is about EJ showing that he is capable of winning, even if the game doesn't mean anything in the long run.

We need EJ to show he has the posibility of being the long term solution at QB. If he plays like **** the next 3 games or even plays average we need to look at another QB. If he plays outstanding well then I'm comfortable drafting a WR or OL.

[Ed]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

OK.

How about the Bills 6th win of the 2011 season on December 24th against the Broncos in another 6-10 season?

So let's say the Bills had lost that game last year against the Jags. What would be different? They would have been 5-11 instead of 6-10 and had the 7th overall pick instead of the 10th. So instead of picking Gilmore, they could have had SS Mark Barron, QB Ryan Tannehill, or LB Luke Kuechley. The Bills were apparently very high on Mark Barron, so he would have likely been the pick. That puts Aaron Williams back at CB. Are we really any better off in that situation?

[BuffaloRedleg]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

So let's say the Bills had lost that game last year against the Jags. What would be different? They would have been 5-11 instead of 6-10 and had the 7th overall pick instead of the 10th. So instead of picking Gilmore, they could have had SS Mark Barron, QB Ryan Tannehill, or LB Luke Kuechley. The Bills were apparently very high on Mark Barron, so he would have likely been the pick. That puts Aaron Williams back at CB. Are we really any better off in that situation?

Great point. Also, if we had won more games a few years back we'd maybe have AJ Green instead of Dareus. That would give some people major boners around here. Of course, those are the same people who are obsessed with us losing out.

[Meathead]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

good point about ej. im not sure anything that happens the last few weeks with him really matters in the long run, but it sure would feel a lot better if he was consistently decent (especially on the road where we all know hes been mostly abysmal)

i guess im saying i hope they play well but dont get the bounces and lose

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

I still say win out, and in doing so knock Miami out of any playoff contention it may have left and force New England to play at someone for the championship and at very least go for Marcia's knees.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: How Did Our 5th Win on Dec. 2, 2012 (Jags) Teach The Players How to Win THIS Year

Great point. Also, if we had won more games a few years back we'd maybe have AJ Green instead of Dareus. That would give some people major boners around here. Of course, those are the same people who are obsessed with us losing out.

We still could have had Green. We took Dareus while Green was on the board. We could have had Miller though.