Get Rid of Series #3: Stevie Johnson

[Mr. Cynical]

With Woods emerging and Goodwin looking promising, I think it's time to see what they can get for him via trade. He's not bad, but I think he's had more than enough time to establish himself as elite. He's not. He just doesn't step up like a #1 should/does when it counts. That, and he's shown to be injury prone. I know folks are going to say "get rid of a proven commodity is what Bills do best" but IMO, it's time.

[OpIv37]

Shut up dude. His mom died.

That gets him off the hook for not coming through for the last 3 years.

[BertSquirtgum]

I was a huge supporter of him for years but I don't see him changing. He is not the type of person I think will help this team win games. He is a total basket case. Unless they can get him to agree to a huge pay cut to around 6 million a year, I say try to trade him.

[Historian]

Get rid of him and Kenny "The Savior" Easley.

[Night Train]

Get rid of him and Kenny "The Savior" Easley.

Kenny retired in 1987. Marcus can only tackle on ST's and can't catch.

Lots of changes coming this off-season and it will determine if Marrone will last more than 2 years but he gets the benefit of the doubt. Watch your roster year 1 and see who can win for you, then make changes.

Stevie is a slot WR who is overpaid and may need a change. Certainly not clutch, that's Woods.

I'll let the off-season play out and the moves will speak for themselves.

[DraftBoy]

I'd leave Marcus on the squad for his ST ability alone. He's a big part of Top 10 kickoff return number.

[jamze132]

Stevie isn't going anywhere this offseason, get used to it. But do expect us to target the top WRs in FA and draft one early. If we can move Stevie into the slot, he can get 80 catches a year.

[better days]

Kenny retired in 1987. Marcus can only tackle on ST's and can't catch.

Lots of changes coming this off-season and it will determine if Marrone will last more than 2 years but he gets the benefit of the doubt. Watch your roster year 1 and see who can win for you, then make changes.

Stevie is a slot WR who is overpaid and may need a change. Certainly not clutch, that's Woods.

I'll let the off-season play out and the moves will speak for themselves.

Stevie is not clutch, but he is not overpaid either.

He is making the money a starter in his 2nd contract should make.

I doubt the Bills could get value in a trade for him & see no reason to give him away for nothing.

[YankeeInRaleigh]

Why so serious? It's because everyone around you IS AT WORK, Stevie. People tend to be serious when they're at work, and want to do their work well. But don't worry, no one's thinking about the balls you drop every game.

[OpIv37]

He's overpaid because he doesn't perform like a starter on his second contract.

And the reason to give him away for nothing is to get his salary off the books and put it toward someone who will live up to their cap hit.

But, like I said before, despite my reservations about Stevie I hesitate to get rid of him. For all his limitations, he's still better than any WR on this team with the possible exception of Woods, and I don't trust the FO to properly replace him. It seems like another situation where they'd "replace" him by either simply bumping everyone else one step up on the depth chart, or signing a third- rate FA who was a back up on his previous team to be a starter here.

[jdaltroy5]

I'd be ok with getting rid of Johnson once Woods and Goodwin ACTUALLY become elite players. As it stands, they have 50 receptions, 750 yards, and 6 TDs between them in their career.

He's the 15th highest paid WR in the league and (aside from this year) since 2010, he has been between 11-19 every year in yards and receptions. If he was clutch, you could probably tack on at least 2 or 3 mil a year onto his contract. He is what he is. A guy that commands attention from the CB1, but a guy that you don't want to throw to with the game on the line.

I love these "get rid of series." Byrd, Mario Williams, and Johnson.

How about we start to upgrade our crappy players rather than worrying about the guys who make too much money?

[alnilla]

Shut up dude. His mom died.

That gets him off the hook for not coming through for the last 3 years.


The last three years he had 1,000 yards seasons!! Give him a break name any other Bills Receiver that had that kind of production without Jim Kelly as QB.

Stop being a grade A *******

[Bangarang]

Something about dumping on a man after his mother just died doesn't sit well with me...

[kingJofNYC]

Goodwin hasn't done **** yet.

This coaching staff still gives Graham more targets/reps than Goodwin, and yet he's somehow emerged in your mind. What a ****ing awful franchise.

[Meathead]

if there was no warning at all for his moms passing (ie being sick or having a chronic health problem) then stevies gonna have a super rough time for a while. his pain is going to turn him into a different man which should be obvious by the time next season rolls around. even though football is just entertainment to us its his career and he will have the opportunity to throw himself into his work. hes already a good not great player, and this kind of thing might be what transforms him into the player weve all been hoping for

if so, we might already have all we need at the position on the roster. woods is already wr1, stevie would be an excellent compliment, and goodwin is the burner. sure they will try to add to the position perhaps even using their top pick if a stud is available, but they could go into next season with what they have and be fine. its up to ej and hackett to improve the rest of the offense to the point that will make the guys they have more effective

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Johnson is a 7th round pick that we developed into a 1000 yard receiver. On most teams that would be a wild success story but here we need to ship him out because he's not elite.

He's overpromoted and needs to be a #2, and I'd certainly talk to him strongly about a restructure, but I certainly wouldn't deal him away.

[OpIv37]

The last three years he had 1,000 yards seasons!! Give him a break name any other Bills Receiver that had that kind of production without Jim Kelly as QB.

Stop being a grade A *******
And along with those 1000 yards, he also had key drops that cost us games and immature celebration and delay of game penalties.

This is exactly what I mean when I say Bills fan have accepted mediocrity. We always have to settle for second best.

Why can't we have a 1000 yard receiver who doesn't have the drops and the penalties? Why can't we have a 1000 yard receiver who helps out the young QB instead of having his worst season, fumbling away one game and having a ball go off his hands for an int in the next game?

We should demand more of Stevie. We should demand more of our FO, because there are WR's out there who put up Stevie numbers or better without the BS.

But no- instead you attack me- you shoot the messenger while defending a guy who has consistently hurt the team.

[Historian]

London Fletcher's mother committed suicide while he played here, you didn't see him acting like a pussy.

[OpIv37]

Something about dumping on a man after his mother just died doesn't sit well with me...

No one's dumping on the guy because his mother died. Most of us were dumping on him since long before that. Some of you seem to have this bizarre notion that his mother dying has something to do with his lack of performance. It doesn't, because Sunday was fR from the first time Stevie pulled that type of nonsense.

I don't know why people insist on making excuses for this guy . This week it's his mom. Before that, it's the refs or the coaches or the QB or the lack of receiving options or the defender making a good play, but somehow Stevie's always the center of it but never has to take responsibility for his performance.

Oh the 1000 yard seasons- Stevie did those himself. The coaches and the QB and the refs don't get the credit. But they sure do get the blame when Stevie inevitably ****s up.....

Keep on giving Stevie a free pass. Keep on blaming everyone but him for his ****-ups. But expect to keep losing because you can't do the same thing oven and over and expect different results.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

London Fletcher's mother committed suicide while he played here, you didn't see him acting like a pussy.

No, but you did see fans pushing for us to dump him because he wasn't elite.

[Mr. Pink]

No, but you did see fans pushing for us to dump him because he wasn't elite.

And it took til this year to successfully replace him.

So dump Stevie and maybe 5 years from now a legitimate replacement will be added.

[Bangarang]

No one's dumping on the guy because his mother died. Most of us were dumping on him since long before that. Some of you seem to have this bizarre notion that his mother dying has something to do with his lack of performance. It doesn't, because Sunday was fR from the first time Stevie pulled that type of nonsense.

I don't know why people insist on making excuses for this guy . This week it's his mom. Before that, it's the refs or the coaches or the QB or the lack of receiving options or the defender making a good play, but somehow Stevie's always the center of it but never has to take responsibility for his performance.

Oh the 1000 yard seasons- Stevie did those himself. The coaches and the QB and the refs don't get the credit. But they sure do get the blame when Stevie inevitably ****s up.....

Keep on giving Stevie a free pass. Keep on blaming everyone but him for his ****-ups. But expect to keep losing because you can't do the same thing oven and over and expect different results.

What are you even blabbing about? When did I say people were dumping on him because his mother died? And where did I use the death of his mother as an excuse for his poor performance?

Stevie probably needs to go, but you don't think a thread bashing him after losing his mother isn't in poor taste?

[ThunderGun]

Unless they can get him to agree to a huge pay cut to around 6 million a year, I say try to trade him.

Well, that huge paycut to 6 mil a year would actually be a slight raise:

Stevie's Contract (includes signing bonus and annual workout bonuses):

2012 - $11.10
2013 - $7.33
2014 - $5.68
2015 - $6.03
2016 - $6.13

[ThunderGun]

Stevie is a slot WR who is overpaid and may need a change. Certainly not clutch, that's Woods.

I think everybody, including the front office, knows that Stevie belongs in the slot. Nix said several times over the last year or two that Stevie is best-suited for the slot, and we drafted 2 WR's in the top 78 picks this year. I think the plan is and has been to have Stevie work primarily out of the slot, where he can be one of the better slot WR's in the game.

I also don't really agree that he is overpaid. About $6 mil a year for a guy on his 2nd contract (and coming off a couple of big seasons) is pretty reasonable, IMO.

[Bangarang]

Well, that huge paycut to 6 mil a year would actually be a slight raise:

Stevie's Contract (includes signing bonus and annual workout bonuses):

2012 - $11.10
2013 - $7.33
2014 - $5.68
2015 - $6.03
2016 - $6.13

I think you're mistaken.

16722

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I think you're mistaken.

16722

He is, but the important thing to notice is that we don't see any cap savings from cutting or trading him until 2015.

[better days]

He is, but the important thing to notice is that we don't see any cap savings from cutting or trading him until 2015.

Well, I think both are just educated guesses anyway. In any event, Stevie is having a down year, but his contract was not excessive.

If the Bills could get a 2nd rnd pick for him, fine trade him because unlike what Mitch says, I think the Bills have a GOOD WR group.

I don't know that they could get a 2nd for him though & I would not trade him for less than that.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, I think both are just educated guesses anyway.

I doubt that, I think that Rotoworld is likely just ignoring bonuses that Stevie is not likely to earn. I'm sure there's bonuses in there if he leads the league in receiving yards or wins MVP or some craziness. There usually is.


If the Bills could get a 2nd rnd pick for him, fine trade him because unlike what Mitch says, I think the Bills have a GOOD WR group.

I don't know that they could get a 2nd for him though & I would not trade him for less than that.

I think it is an ok group with Steve. I think if you subtract him, then we're back to the situation where everybody is promoted one spot too far. I think we add one more guy to be our #1 possession type and we're in good shape.

[better days]

I doubt that, I think that Rotoworld is likely just ignoring bonuses that Stevie is not likely to earn. I'm sure there's bonuses in there if he leads the league in receiving yards or wins MVP or some craziness. There usually is.



I think it is an ok group with Steve. I think if you subtract him, then we're back to the situation where everybody is promoted one spot too far. I think we add one more guy to be our #1 possession type and we're in good shape.

Well, I doubt anyone outside the Bills & Stevie's agent know all the details of the contract. I doubt Stevie earns any bonus money this year.

If Stevie were traded, he would need to be replaced with a draft pick or FA because I agree with you about that.

[OpIv37]

What are you even blabbing about? When did I say people were dumping on him because his mother died? And where did I use the death of his mother as an excuse for his poor performance?

Stevie probably needs to go, but you don't think a thread bashing him after losing his mother isn't in poor taste?
No, it's not, because the thread has nothing to do with his mother.

It has to do with his performance (or lack thereof) on the football field.

I'm sorry that he lost his mom and I hope he and his family get through this tough time, but it's not going to stop me from commenting honestly on his play. The two things are unrelated.

[OpIv37]

He is, but the important thing to notice is that we don't see any cap savings from cutting or trading him until 2015.
Hooray for the front office yet again!

Of course, it's not like cap savings matter for this team. They end up filling Ralph Wilson's mattress anyway.

[BillsFever21]

He isn't getting released since next season is the last portion of his guaranteed money. The only way they would/should entertain trading him was if somebody offered us a 2nd round pick for him which isn't going to happen.

He's not an elite WR like too many around here thought he was a couple years ago. I remember some wanting to pay him top 5-10 money if that's what it took to keep him. He's a #2 WR on a good unit and a #1 on a bad unit like ours have been. He isn't a horrible WR though and he still has value on the team next season. He just isn't a clutch WR that you can depend on and that's why he's better suited as a #2 option.

We don't save any money by releasing him next year so it doesn't make a bit of sense to release him. Nobody is going to give up a high draft pick for him either. Would it be worth trading him for a 4th round draft pick AND not saving any money on the cap? Of course it wouldn't be and that's about all his market value would be.

This unit is still too young to go with just Woods, Goodwin and Graham for next season. Woods has shown some potential but far from enough to be considered the #1 guy next year. Even if that were the case then Johnson could still be useful and only help our team. We should look into a stud WR if one is available in the draft though. They're not releasing Johnson to not save any money and then look into signing an expensive free agent or trading for somebody else.

[TedMock]

Dead cap next year at over $8MM is tough to swallow. Although, something to think about is (and I may be a bit off) that he is somewhere in the neighborhood of the 22nd highest paid WR in football. The usual suspects like Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, etc are at the top. The one criminal contract is Percy Harvin being a top-5 paid WR.

[Skooby]

Well, I think both are just educated guesses anyway. In any event, Stevie is having a down year, but his contract was not excessive.

If the Bills could get a 2nd rnd pick for him, fine trade him because unlike what Mitch says, I think the Bills have a GOOD WR group.

I don't know that they could get a 2nd for him though & I would not trade him for less than that.Our rookies get a pass.

[better days]

He's overpaid because he doesn't perform like a starter on his second contract.

And the reason to give him away for nothing is to get his salary off the books and put it toward someone who will live up to their cap hit.

But, like I said before, despite my reservations about Stevie I hesitate to get rid of him. For all his limitations, he's still better than any WR on this team with the possible exception of Woods, and I don't trust the FO to properly replace him. It seems like another situation where they'd "replace" him by either simply bumping everyone else one step up on the depth chart, or signing a third- rate FA who was a back up on his previous team to be a starter here.

No question this was a bad year for Stevie.

Injuries to BOTH Stevie & EJ played a big part in his down season.

You don't throw the baby away with the bath water.

I expect both Stevie & EJ to have bounce back years next year.

[Mouldsie]

I'd be ok with getting rid of Johnson once Woods and Goodwin ACTUALLY become elite players. As it stands, they have 50 receptions, 750 yards, and 6 TDs between them in their career.

He's the 15th highest paid WR in the league and (aside from this year) since 2010, he has been between 11-19 every year in yards and receptions. If he was clutch, you could probably tack on at least 2 or 3 mil a year onto his contract. He is what he is. A guy that commands attention from the CB1, but a guy that you don't want to throw to with the game on the line.

I love these "get rid of series." Byrd, Mario Williams, and Johnson.

How about we start to upgrade our crappy players rather than worrying about the guys who make too much money?
A ****ing Men. Dumbasses.

This board is trash lately.

[Mouldsie]

He is, but the important thing to notice is that we don't see any cap savings from cutting or trading him until 2015.
When the cap is expected to jump significantly.

He's paid like a high end WR2/LowWR1. The money argument is garbage.

[BertSquirtgum]

Well, that huge paycut to 6 mil a year would actually be a slight raise:

Stevie's Contract (includes signing bonus and annual workout bonuses):

2012 - $11.10
2013 - $7.33
2014 - $5.68
2015 - $6.03
2016 - $6.13

Wrong.

year base signing bonus misc. bonus cap hit dead money

<tbody>
2014
3,650,000
1,700,000
3,150,000
8,500,000
8,475,000


2015
5,500,000
1,700,000
1,650,000
8,850,000
5,650,000


2016
5,850,000
1,700,000
1,400,000
8,950,000
2,825,00

</tbody>

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Wrong.

year base signing bonus misc. bonus cap hit dead money

<tbody>
2014
3,650,000
1,700,000
3,150,000
8,500,000
8,475,000


2015
5,500,000
1,700,000
1,650,000
8,850,000
5,650,000


2016
5,850,000
1,700,000
1,400,000
8,950,000
2,825,00

</tbody>


He's using the numbers off rotoworld.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4962/stevie-johnson

[Mouldsie]

Dead cap next year at over $8MM is tough to swallow. Although, something to think about is (and I may be a bit off) that he is somewhere in the neighborhood of the 22nd highest paid WR in football. The usual suspects like Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, etc are at the top. The one criminal contract is Percy Harvin being a top-5 paid WR.
And a lot of WR's are about to get paid: AJ Green, Eric Decker, Jordy Nelson, Julio Jones

[Mr. Cynical]

Bump. Yay.

[feldspar]

Bump. Yay.

Get Rid of Series #4: Mr. Cynical

[CommissarSpartacus]

Getting rid of Stevie Johnson is the one reason the football gods may be good to us this year.

I have my fingers crossed...