Matt Flynn

[CommissarSpartacus]

Hey, is the Matt Flynn that threw 4 td passes and led Green Bay to a historic humiliation of America's team the same Matt Flynn that had a cup of coffee with the Bills a month ago?

It couldn't be, could it, cuz yesterday's Matt Flynn played better than I've ever seen EJ, Thad or Jeff play.

Nah, the Bills wouldn't cut someone that good.

That would be stupid, and if there's one thing I appreciate when I think of Maronne and Hackett and Brandon, it's their big brains.

[WagonCircler]

Hey, is the Matt Flynn that threw 4 td passes and led Green Bay to a historic humiliation of America's team the same Matt Flynn that had a cup of coffee with the Bills a month ago?

It couldn't be, could it, cuz yesterday's Matt Flynn played better than I've ever seen EJ, Thad or Jeff play.

Nah, the Bills wouldn't cut someone that good.

That would be stupid, and if there's one thing I appreciate when I think of Maronne and Hackett and Brandon, it's their big brains.

Has to be a cousin or distant relative.

The guy who was on the Bills was cut after a week. And we all know that the Bills are EXPERTS who are smarter than anyone else in the league when it comes to evaluating QBs.

[Thurmal]

Still can't believe they started Tuel over him against KC. Actually, it's the Bills, so it makes sense.

This is the same team that makes moves like trading Marshawn Lynch for a 4th rounder and willingly getting rid of Pat Williams and Sam Adams in order to replace them with Larry Tripplette and John McCargo because "they fit our system better."

[Albany,n.y.]

Hey, is the Matt Flynn that threw 4 td passes and led Green Bay to a historic humiliation of America's team the same Matt Flynn that had a cup of coffee with the Bills a month ago?

It couldn't be, could it, cuz yesterday's Matt Flynn played better than I've ever seen EJ, Thad or Jeff play.

Nah, the Bills wouldn't cut someone that good.

That would be stupid, and if there's one thing I appreciate when I think of Maronne and Hackett and Brandon, it's their big brains.

Following your logic, Seattle & Oakland also must be stupid.
The bottom line on Matt Flynn is he plays good when he's with GB, but sucks everywhere else.
Maybe he just fits GB's system & nobody else's. He's like AJ Feeley, who was a good backup when he was with the Eagles, but couldn't cut it elsewhere.

[YardRat]

Kinda helps a little bit when the QB knows the system and has already played in it.

Apparently you also appreciate the big brains in Seattle and Oakland, too.

[bdutton]

Matt Flynn sucked big in preseason for us.... he never showed anything that would lead the coaches to believe he was a better option in their system.

[Albany,n.y.]

Matt Flynn sucked big in preseason for us.... he never showed anything that would lead the coaches to believe he was a better option in their system.

Are you a Raiders' fan?

[malvado78]

Matt Flynn sucked big in preseason for us.... he never showed anything that would lead the coaches to believe he was a better option in their system.

Bills added Matt Flynn in October of 2013. He never played in preseason for the bills nor took any snaps in a game of any sort for the Buffalo Bills. So he may have sucked but it wasn't in game play...

[bdutton]

Are you a Raiders' fan?


Bills added Matt Flynn in October of 2013. He never played in preseason for the bills nor took any snaps in a game of any sort for the Buffalo Bills. So he may have sucked but it wasn't in game play...

Sorry... I am confusing him with Leinart.

[Oaf]

Flynn sucks outside GB and wasn't with us for more than a week when we decided to go with Tuel.

You're probably still enamored with his statline from '10 that go him big money in the first place, right?

[WagonCircler]

Kinda helps a little bit when the QB knows the system and has already played in it..

The system in Buffalo is dumbed down to high school level.

[YardRat]

The system in Buffalo is dumbed down to high school level.

Why don't you share some of the terminology, check-downs, blocking assignments and calls, etc with the rest of us then, considering you are so familiar with it.

[casdhf]

System guy.

[WagonCircler]

Why don't you share some of the terminology, check-downs, blocking assignments and calls, etc with the rest of us then, considering you are so familiar with it.

Buffalo Bills quarterback EJ Manuel said Sunday in a radio interview from the NFLPA Rookie Premiere in Los Angeles that he is quickly picking up the team's offense, which he said is less complex than the system he used at Florida State.

Here's some terminology:


"The funny thing is it's easier to learn than the offense I had at Florida State," he told SiriusXM NFL Radio. "It's a true West Coast-type progression offense. That's really what I wanted when I was coming through the pre-draft process. I wanted something that I could just go in and say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, check it down and run it. That's it, it's that simple. I love it."This offense is very simple." he said in the interview.



We'll consider cutting back the playbook for EJ-D.Marrone

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/221945-We-ll-consider-cutting-back-the-playbook-for-EJ-D-Marrone?highlight=marrone

[better days]

Buffalo Bills quarterback EJ Manuel said Sunday in a radio interview from the NFLPA Rookie Premiere in Los Angeles that he is quickly picking up the team's offense, which he said is less complex than the system he used at Florida State.

Here's some terminology:


"The funny thing is it's easier to learn than the offense I had at Florida State," he told SiriusXM NFL Radio. "It's a true West Coast-type progression offense. That's really what I wanted when I was coming through the pre-draft process. I wanted something that I could just go in and say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, check it down and run it. That's it, it's that simple. I love it."This offense is very simple." he said in the interview.



We'll consider cutting back the playbook for EJ-D.Marrone

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/221945-We-ll-consider-cutting-back-the-playbook-for-EJ-D-Marrone?highlight=marrone

Marrone also said the Bills ADDED a lot of stuff recently. As in the Offense is MORE COMPLICATED than it was in TC.

[DraftBoy]

Buffalo Bills quarterback EJ Manuel said Sunday in a radio interview from the NFLPA Rookie Premiere in Los Angeles that he is quickly picking up the team's offense, which he said is less complex than the system he used at Florida State.

Here's some terminology:


"The funny thing is it's easier to learn than the offense I had at Florida State," he told SiriusXM NFL Radio. "It's a true West Coast-type progression offense. That's really what I wanted when I was coming through the pre-draft process. I wanted something that I could just go in and say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, check it down and run it. That's it, it's that simple. I love it."This offense is very simple." he said in the interview.



We'll consider cutting back the playbook for EJ-D.Marrone

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/221945-We-ll-consider-cutting-back-the-playbook-for-EJ-D-Marrone?highlight=marrone

That doesn't come close to actually responding to the comment and you know it...

The Bills offense is also full of combination routes that require the QB and WR to know what route the WR will run in what circumstance against what coverage. All of this without any verbal communication. This packaged play concept isn't all that easy to understand which is probably why Hackett and Marrone are scaling it back.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/71569/packaged-plays-and-the-newest-form-of-option-football


"Combination" or "packaged" plays have been sweeping across college and high school football over recent years, enough that NFL coaches are clearly taking notice. The Bears, Panthers, Bills, Eagles, and Chiefs each ran a number of them in their exhibition games, combining running and passing concepts — meaning the offensive line typically blocked a run play while receivers ran pass routes or screens, leaving the quarterback to decide whether to hand off or throw it out wide — often at a no-huddle pace.

Good offense has always been about deceptive simplicity — the clearest path to success is to make things as simple as possible for your players while also keeping defenses off-balance. It's a difficult recipe, as an offense that is too simple can get dissected, analyzed, and shut down by a savvy defense, but a team that tries to do too many things will master none of them. Packaged plays solve the quandary by combining simple plays all the players can execute in such a way that — if the quarterback makes the right decision — the offense always has the advantage, because no defender can be in two places at once.

[WagonCircler]

EJ apparently thinks the Offense is simple. He said so.

MAYBE he just doesn't understand it at all.

Maybe (and by that I mean probably to definitely) the part of Hackett's Offense being used is minuscule, so the QB is able to grasp it.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Still can't believe they started Tuel over him against KC. Actually, it's the Bills, so it makes sense.

This is the same team that makes moves like trading Marshawn Lynch for a 4th rounder and willingly getting rid of Pat Williams and Sam Adams in order to replace them with Larry Tripplette and John McCargo because "they fit our system better."


1) Never utter the name Jeff Tuel to me again, it makes me want to slug someone
2) But But, Fat Pat was getting old, it just took until 2010 for him to start playing like he was old. Fortunately the Bills knew he was getting old before everyone did and let him go to Minnesota.
3) This is also the same team that let Ruben Brown go for being a cancer and then did nothing about the OL for years

Damn it why do they do this **** to us and why do we put up with it?

[Night Train]

Did you actually watch that game ?

He under threw many of those passes that the WR had to stop for... while the Cowboys CB's pulled a McKelvin with the location ball skills.

A reach of EPIC proportions. Lets see who lines up to trade for Flynn or start him, based on this one game. Do it again the next 2 weeks.

Flynn BLOWS !

[X-Era]

Still can't believe they started Tuel over him against KC. Actually, it's the Bills, so it makes sense.

This is the same team that makes moves like trading Marshawn Lynch for a 4th rounder and willingly getting rid of Pat Williams and Sam Adams in order to replace them with Larry Tripplette and John McCargo because "they fit our system better."
Also the same team that drafted Lynch, Found guys like Pat Williams, Jason Peters, Jabari Greer, and Fred Jackson.

They don't stink at finding talent; they stink at paying for it.

[X-Era]

EJ apparently thinks the Offense is simple. He said so.

MAYBE he just doesn't understand it at all.

Maybe (and by that I mean probably to definitely) the part of Hackett's Offense being used is minuscule, so the QB is able to grasp it.Maybe it's not that the offensive scheme is difficult to grasp. Maybe it's just not a very good scheme.

[Novacane]

Did you see him Thanksgiving day against Detroit? So he had a good game. Who cares. He still sucks.

[WagonCircler]

Maybe it's not that the offensive scheme is difficult to grasp. Maybe it's just not a very good scheme.

This seems to preclude the possibility that it could be both.

Either way, no Offensive scheme causes any QB to misfire as badly and as consistently as EJ Manuel did in the 1st quarter yesterday.

And I've never seen a franchise QB look like that. Ever.

[DraftBoy]

EJ apparently thinks the Offense is simple. He said so.

MAYBE he just doesn't understand it at all.

Maybe (and by that I mean probably to definitely) the part of Hackett's Offense being used is minuscule, so the QB is able to grasp it.

Or maybe you're just trying to justify your preconceived thought by using a quote from TC?

[swiper]

Are you a Raiders' fan?

ROFL. It doesn't get any better than that. :roflmao:

[The last buffalo fan]

Or maybe .............


<caption class="thd1"><label id="table-label">
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1


Game Stats</label> <!-- (Qualified* | --> <!-- | All) -->
</caption><tbody>
Rk
Team
G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=GAMES_PLAYED)
Pts/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG)
TotPts (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_SCORED)
Scrm Plys (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_PLAYS)
Yds/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG)
Yds/P (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_YDS_PLAY_AVG)
1st/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=FIRST_DOWNS_GAME_AVG)
3rd Md (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_3RD_FD_MADE)
3rd Att (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_3RD_ATTEMPTED)
3rd Pct (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_3RD_PERCENTAGE)
4th Md (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_FD_MADE)
4th Att (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_ATTEMPTED)
4th Pct (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_PERCENTAGE)
Pen (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=PENALTIES_TOTAL)
Pen Yds (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=PENALTIES_YARDS_PENALIZED)
ToP/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TIME_OF_POSS_SECONDS_PER_GAME_AVG)
FUM (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=FUMBLES_TOTAL)
Lost (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=FUMBLES_LOST)

<tbody>
1
Seattle Seahawks (http://www.nfl.com/teams/seattleseahawks/profile?team=SEA)
14
14,6
205
870
279.5
4.5
18.2
68
186
37
4
11
36
79
746
30:27
25
11


2
Carolina Panthers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/carolinapanthers/profile?team=CAR)
14
14,9
208
825
296.3
5.0
17.0
64
178
36
2
9
22
75
657
26:54
16
10


3
San Francisco 49ers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/profile?team=SF)
14
16,3
228
879
299.1
4.8
17.1
64
193
33
6
18
33
88
811
29:09
20
11


4
Houston Texans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/houstontexans/profile?team=HOU)
14
26,8
375
839
304.2
5.1
17.1
69
192
36
3
7
43
87
666
29:21
12
4


5
New Orleans Saints (http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/profile?team=NO)
14
19,3
270
837
312.8
5.2
17.6
66
177
37
3
9
33
80
646
27:52
15
7


6
Cincinnati Bengals (http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN)
14
19,6
274
928
318.4
4.8
18.2
70
201
35
5
12
42
58
596
29:36
15
10


7
Arizona Cardinals (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/profile?team=ARI)
14
20,8
291
932
322.3
4.8
20.0
73
195
37
6
15
40
98
838
29:53
18
9


8
Cleveland Browns (http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE)
14
25,9
362
970
328.9
4.7
20.4
92
214
43
4
8
50
87
695
31:17
12
7


9
Baltimore Ravens (http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL)
13
20,1
261
841
332.8
5.1
17.2
63
194
32
8
14
57
101
973
30:09
20
8


10
New York Giants (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG)
14
25,5
357
934
336.4
5.0
20.8
80
195
41
3
12
25
95
814
30:56
21
9


11
Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT)
14
23,7
332
900
338.0
5.3
18.7
79
201
39
9
17
53
80
678
28:46
19
8


12
New York Jets (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkjets/profile?team=NYJ)
14
26,2
367
922
341.4
5.2
18.3
74
206
36
6
15
40
84
771
30:49
17
2


13
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tampabaybuccaneers/profile?team=TB)
14
23,1
324
898
344.5
5.4
20.4
67
177
38
6
10
60
89
833
30:21
16
8


14
Tennessee Titans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tennesseetitans/profile?team=TEN)
14
25,4
355
913
345.0
5.3
21.1
62
180
34
6
8
75
86
709
30:54
22
10


15
Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF)
14
25,3
354
969
346.4
5.0
19.9
85
218
39
4
9
44
98
863
32:32
15
7


16
Detroit Lions (http://www.nfl.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET)
13
24,7
321
801
355.2
5.8
18.3
51
169
30
8
11
73
71
566
28:05
15
5


17
Miami Dolphins (http://www.nfl.com/teams/miamidolphins/profile?team=MIA)
14
21,1
296
959
356.1
5.2
20.5
78
204
38
8
15
53
86
681
31:27
11
6


18
Oakland Raiders (http://www.nfl.com/teams/oaklandraiders/profile?team=OAK)
14
28,1
393
889
358.4
5.6
19.9
76
185
41
2
6
33
78
606
29:23
24
11


19
Indianapolis Colts (http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/profile?team=IND)
14
22,8
319
903
362.6
5.6
20.1
75
188
40
6
13
46
100
875
31:13
19
8


20
Washington Redskins (http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/profile?team=WAS)
14
31
434
873
362.7
5.8
21.4
59
170
35
10
15
67
74
635
29:34
14
8


21
St. Louis Rams (http://www.nfl.com/teams/st.louisrams/profile?team=STL)
14
23,1
324
895
362.9
5.7
21.6
70
174
40
7
13
54
95
887
31:04
25
13


22
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC)
14
18,2
255
923
365.2
5.5
18.9
62
194
32
7
16
44
105
799
28:29
21
15


23
Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)
14
26,6
372
948
371.5
5.5
22.0
72
189
38
4
14
29
91
740
30:39
21
8


24
New England Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE)
14
22,2
311
976
372.7
5.3
21.4
89
205
43
4
15
27
95
814
31:35
19
11


25
San Diego Chargers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sandiegochargers/profile?team=SD)
14
22,2
311
836
376.2
6.3
20.8
60
153
39
5
10
50
87
772
27:10
12
5


26
Green Bay Packers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/profile?team=GB)
14
25,9
362
907
376.3
5.8
20.9
71
184
39
8
15
53
87
785
30:40
14
9


27
Chicago Bears (http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/profile?team=CHI)
14
27,9
391
882
380.4
6.0
21.4
69
173
40
8
12
67
66
617
29:50
22
8


28
Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)
14
28,5
399
946
381.8
5.7
22.0
85
197
43
5
7
71
84
715
32:20
25
10


29
Atlanta Falcons (http://www.nfl.com/teams/atlantafalcons/profile?team=ATL)
14
27,7
388
892
386.3
6.1
20.7
85
185
46
7
11
64
93
802
30:10
17
10


30
Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.nfl.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/profile?team=PHI)
14
24,9
349
1,023
402.4
5.5
23.5
85
206
41
5
15
33
103
840
34:07
24
10


31
Minnesota Vikings (http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN)
14
30,4
425
995
406.5
5.7
23.6
89
202
44
10
16
62
88
896
32:54
15
7


32
Dallas Cowboys (http://www.nfl.com/teams/dallascowboys/profile?team=DAL)
14
27,5
385
964
427.3
6.2
25.0
79
181
44
9
16
56
98
781
30:52
15
12

</tbody>

- - - Updated - - -

Or maybe .............


<caption class="thd1"><label id="table-label">
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1


Game Stats</label> <!-- (Qualified* | --> <!-- | All) -->
</caption><tbody>
Rk
Team
G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=GAMES_PLAYED)
Pts/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG)
TotPts (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_SCORED)
Scrm Plys (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_PLAYS)
Yds/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG)
Yds/P (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=SCRIMMAGE_YDS_PLAY_AVG)
1st/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=FIRST_DOWNS_GAME_AVG)
3rd Md (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_3RD_FD_MADE)
3rd Att (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_3RD_ATTEMPTED)
3rd Pct (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_3RD_PERCENTAGE)
4th Md (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_FD_MADE)
4th Att (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_ATTEMPTED)
4th Pct (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=DOWN_4TH_PERCENTAGE)
Pen (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=PENALTIES_TOTAL)
Pen Yds (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=PENALTIES_YARDS_PENALIZED)
ToP/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TIME_OF_POSS_SECONDS_PER_GAME_AVG)
FUM (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=FUMBLES_TOTAL)
Lost (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=FUMBLES_LOST)

<tbody>
1
Seattle Seahawks (http://www.nfl.com/teams/seattleseahawks/profile?team=SEA)
14
14,6
205
870
279.5
4.5
18.2
68
186
37
4
11
36
79
746
30:27
25
11


2
Carolina Panthers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/carolinapanthers/profile?team=CAR)
14
14,9
208
825
296.3
5.0
17.0
64
178
36
2
9
22
75
657
26:54
16
10


3
San Francisco 49ers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sanfrancisco49ers/profile?team=SF)
14
16,3
228
879
299.1
4.8
17.1
64
193
33
6
18
33
88
811
29:09
20
11


4
Houston Texans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/houstontexans/profile?team=HOU)
14
26,8
375
839
304.2
5.1
17.1
69
192
36
3
7
43
87
666
29:21
12
4


5
New Orleans Saints (http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/profile?team=NO)
14
19,3
270
837
312.8
5.2
17.6
66
177
37
3
9
33
80
646
27:52
15
7


6
Cincinnati Bengals (http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN)
14
19,6
274
928
318.4
4.8
18.2
70
201
35
5
12
42
58
596
29:36
15
10


7
Arizona Cardinals (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/profile?team=ARI)
14
20,8
291
932
322.3
4.8
20.0
73
195
37
6
15
40
98
838
29:53
18
9


8
Cleveland Browns (http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE)
14
25,9
362
970
328.9
4.7
20.4
92
214
43
4
8
50
87
695
31:17
12
7


9
Baltimore Ravens (http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/profile?team=BAL)
13
20,1
261
841
332.8
5.1
17.2
63
194
32
8
14
57
101
973
30:09
20
8


10
New York Giants (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG)
14
25,5
357
934
336.4
5.0
20.8
80
195
41
3
12
25
95
814
30:56
21
9


11
Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT)
14
23,7
332
900
338.0
5.3
18.7
79
201
39
9
17
53
80
678
28:46
19
8


12
New York Jets (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkjets/profile?team=NYJ)
14
26,2
367
922
341.4
5.2
18.3
74
206
36
6
15
40
84
771
30:49
17
2


13
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tampabaybuccaneers/profile?team=TB)
14
23,1
324
898
344.5
5.4
20.4
67
177
38
6
10
60
89
833
30:21
16
8


14
Tennessee Titans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/tennesseetitans/profile?team=TEN)
14
25,4
355
913
345.0
5.3
21.1
62
180
34
6
8
75
86
709
30:54
22
10


15
Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF)
14
25,3
354
969
346.4
5.0
19.9
85
218
39
4
9
44
98
863
32:32
15
7


16
Detroit Lions (http://www.nfl.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET)
13
24,7
321
801
355.2
5.8
18.3
51
169
30
8
11
73
71
566
28:05
15
5


17
Miami Dolphins (http://www.nfl.com/teams/miamidolphins/profile?team=MIA)
14
21,1
296
959
356.1
5.2
20.5
78
204
38
8
15
53
86
681
31:27
11
6


18
Oakland Raiders (http://www.nfl.com/teams/oaklandraiders/profile?team=OAK)
14
28,1
393
889
358.4
5.6
19.9
76
185
41
2
6
33
78
606
29:23
24
11


19
Indianapolis Colts (http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/profile?team=IND)
14
22,8
319
903
362.6
5.6
20.1
75
188
40
6
13
46
100
875
31:13
19
8


20
Washington Redskins (http://www.nfl.com/teams/washingtonredskins/profile?team=WAS)
14
31
434
873
362.7
5.8
21.4
59
170
35
10
15
67
74
635
29:34
14
8


21
St. Louis Rams (http://www.nfl.com/teams/st.louisrams/profile?team=STL)
14
23,1
324
895
362.9
5.7
21.6
70
174
40
7
13
54
95
887
31:04
25
13


22
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.nfl.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC)
14
18,2
255
923
365.2
5.5
18.9
62
194
32
7
16
44
105
799
28:29
21
15


23
Denver Broncos (http://www.nfl.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)
14
26,6
372
948
371.5
5.5
22.0
72
189
38
4
14
29
91
740
30:39
21
8


24
New England Patriots (http://www.nfl.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE)
14
22,2
311
976
372.7
5.3
21.4
89
205
43
4
15
27
95
814
31:35
19
11


25
San Diego Chargers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sandiegochargers/profile?team=SD)
14
22,2
311
836
376.2
6.3
20.8
60
153
39
5
10
50
87
772
27:10
12
5


26
Green Bay Packers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/profile?team=GB)
14
25,9
362
907
376.3
5.8
20.9
71
184
39
8
15
53
87
785
30:40
14
9


27
Chicago Bears (http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/profile?team=CHI)
14
27,9
391
882
380.4
6.0
21.4
69
173
40
8
12
67
66
617
29:50
22
8


28
Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)
14
28,5
399
946
381.8
5.7
22.0
85
197
43
5
7
71
84
715
32:20
25
10


29
Atlanta Falcons (http://www.nfl.com/teams/atlantafalcons/profile?team=ATL)
14
27,7
388
892
386.3
6.1
20.7
85
185
46
7
11
64
93
802
30:10
17
10


30
Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.nfl.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/profile?team=PHI)
14
24,9
349
1,023
402.4
5.5
23.5
85
206
41
5
15
33
103
840
34:07
24
10


31
Minnesota Vikings (http://www.nfl.com/teams/minnesotavikings/profile?team=MIN)
14
30,4
425
995
406.5
5.7
23.6
89
202
44
10
16
62
88
896
32:54
15
7


32
Dallas Cowboys (http://www.nfl.com/teams/dallascowboys/profile?team=DAL)
14
27,5
385
964
427.3
6.2
25.0
79
181
44
9
16
56
98
781
30:52
15
12

</tbody>

[Thurmal]

Did you actually watch that game ?

He under threw many of those passes that the WR had to stop for... while the Cowboys CB's pulled a McKelvin with the location ball skills.

A reach of EPIC proportions. Lets see who lines up to trade for Flynn or start him, based on this one game. Do it again the next 2 weeks.


Flynn BLOWS !
He won two games in a row, something no Bills QB has done this year. He also engineered five consecutive TD drives AND threw for 4 TDs yesterday, something a Bills QB probably hasn't accomplished since Nirvana had a hit record.

[WagonCircler]

Or maybe you're just trying to justify your preconceived thought by using a quote from TC?

By quoting the actual guy we're talking about? With actual words out of his actual mouth?

It stands to reason that if that guy can't grasp the relatively simple concepts that allow for proper footwork or the importance of tucking the ball when you run with it, it's really not a stretch to imagine him struggling to grasp an Offensive system.

[better days]

By quoting the actual guy we're talking about? With actual words out of his actual mouth?

It stands to reason that if that guy can't grasp the relatively simple concepts that allow for proper footwork or the importance of tucking the ball when you run with it, it's really not a stretch to imagine him struggling to grasp an Offensive system.

You are quoting what was said in TRAINING camp.

If you have followed the Bills at all, you would know the playbook back then was much smaller & more simple than it is NOW!

So, either you do not follow the team or you are using an OLD quote knowing full well he was talking about the playbook from TC, NOT the playbook in use over most of the season.

The Coaches have ADDED to the playbook CONSTANTLY over the season..........................you should know that.

[WagonCircler]

You are quoting what was said in TRAINING camp.

If you have followed the Bills at all, you would know the playbook back then was much smaller & more simple than it is NOW!.

So, because they've added plays, it went from being simpler than FSU's offense to cracking the genetic code?

Sell your ************ to somebody who's buying.

I know this, if being a Bills fan has taught us anything, it's to spot a crappy Quarterback. This one's no different than Holcomb or Losman or Edwards or Todd Collins.

This guy has the same stench.

Remember when people on Bills message boards were skewering Drew Bledsoe? I'd KILL for Drew Bledsoe right now. He was a statue and probably deserved most of the bashing, but give him the kind of protection the EJ had yesterday, he'd have thrown for 400 yards.

[better days]

So, because they've added plays, it went from being simpler than FSU's offense to cracking the genetic code?

Sell your ************ to somebody who's buying.

I know this, if being a Bills fan has taught us anything, it's to spot a crappy Quarterback. This one's no different than Holcomb or Losman or Edwards or Todd Collins.

This guy has the same stench.

Remember when people on Bills message boards were skewering Drew Bledsoe? I'd KILL for Drew Bledsoe right now. He was a statue and probably deserved most of the bashing, but give him the kind of protection the EJ had yesterday, he'd have thrown for 400 yards.

You may be right about EJ in the end. He may not be the franchise QB we need.

BUT you are wrong about the playbook & I think you are smart enough to know that.

When EJ said what he did, he was looking at the playbook PRIMER, NOT the full playbook.

Marrone & Hackett both said before TC started that they were going to start slow & expand the playbook as time passed because they did not want to throw too much at the QB's too soon.

And I think Dallas Cowboys fans would KILL for Drew Bledsoe right now as well.

[WagonCircler]

You may be right about EJ in the end. He may not be the franchise QB we need.

BUT you are wrong about the playbook & I think you are smart enough to know that.

When EJ said what he did, he was looking at the playbook PRIMER, NOT the full playbook.

Marrone & Hackett both said before TC started that they were going to start slow & expand the playbook as time passed because they did not want to throw too much at the QB's too soon.

And I think Dallas Cowboys fans would KILL for Drew Bledsoe right now as well.

Here's what I'm positive about--EJ could get Peyton Manning to trade brains with him, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference if he can't hit the broad side of a barn.

And he can't.

[better days]

Here's what I'm positive about--EJ could get Peyton Manning to trade brains with him, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference if he can't hit the broad side of a barn.

And he can't.

Well, this year Eli Manning has 16 TD's & 25 INT's. I guess he can't hit the broad side of a barn either.

I guess the OL has nothing to do with QB play.

[WagonCircler]

Well, this year Eli Manning has 16 TD's & 25 INT's. I guess he can't hit the broad side of a barn either.

I guess the OL has nothing to do with QB play.


Eli Manning can flip you off with both hands while wearing a Super Bowl ring on each middle finger.

EJ Manning has accomplished nothing.

This is like comparing apples to auto parts.

[Mouldsie]

I don't think the playbook or even game-planning is a problem for EJ. He just has Blaine Gabbert and Trent Edwards syndrome. He cant cut it loose for fear of an INT and doesn't anticipate well during live action. And his accuracy is never as good in a game as it is in shorts.

Same player he was at FSU

[kishoph]

Hey, is the Matt Flynn that threw 4 td passes and led Green Bay to a historic humiliation of America's team the same Matt Flynn that had a cup of coffee with the Bills a month ago?


It's the same Matt Flynn that threw 4 TD's against the leagues worst passing and overall defense.

[YardRat]

Also the same team that drafted Lynch, Found guys like Pat Williams, Jason Peters, Jabari Greer, and Fred Jackson.

They don't stink at finding talent; they stink at paying for it.

Lynch was a risky keep, and probably never would have been a feature back here like he is in Seattle. If they didn't trade him, they would have either had to ditch Fred, not draft CJ, or listen to Marshawn ***** and moan because he was splitting carries. Worse, he would have run somebody else over. I don't regret that trade at all, despite the success and maturity Lynch has apparently found in Seattle.

Williams should have been retained, and I'll throw in Winfield also. Greer too. I always liked him.

Peters, probably more than anybody, deserved to get paid. If there ever is an example of a guy earning a pay day in the NFL, it is was him. Of course, back in the day, there were many others that felt about him the way I feel about Byrd this season.

They did pay Jackson, and several others.

[kishoph]

By quoting the actual guy we're talking about? With actual words out of his actual mouth?

It stands to reason that if that guy can't grasp the relatively simple concepts that allow for proper footwork or the importance of tucking the ball when you run with it, it's really not a stretch to imagine him struggling to grasp an Offensive system.

Is there anything about being an NFL QB, that is a simple concept ? Maybe Manuel (6 fumbles, 3 lost) can learn ball security from someone like Payton Manning, who has 10 fumbles, with 6 lost this season, or Russell Wilson who has fumbled 10 times and lost 5, or maybe Tom Brady who has fumbled 8 times and lost 3 of them. You'd think those guys would have grasped the "simple concept" of securing the ball by now.

[TacklingDummy]

I knew EJs 1 Qtr performance last week would break out the homers and give people false hope for the future again.

The dude is just not a very good Quarterback, get over it, move along.

I'd rather have Flynnsanity.

[gr8slayer]

You realize that the Cowboys are a historically bad defense, right? It doesn't matter who the QB is, they are going to put up huge numbers vs. Dallas. Matt Flynn is still a very poor QB, and is no more than a clip board holder.

[sukie]

even Flynn's old boss passed on him when he got the gig in Miami.... Prior to Oakland and Seattle thinking he blows as well.

[Dr. Lecter]

I knew EJs 1 Qtr performance last week would break out the homers and give people false hope for the future again.

The dude is just not a very good Quarterback, get over it, move along.

I'd rather have Flynnsanity.

OK.
If you insist.

He is really not having a bad rookie season, despite what people say.

I could back it up with facts, but you won't care - you and others never do

[gr8slayer]

OK.
If you insist.

He is really not having a bad rookie season, despite what people say.

I could back it up with facts, but you won't care - you and others never do

Considering what he's surrounded by, considering the injury issues, considering the rookie coach, he's actually having a damn good season for a rookie who was simply not NFL ready from day one. The Kolb injury really screwed everything up, and made him have to become the starter when he simply wasn't ready. Having said that, he's handled it well, and I think the guy has a bright future if he can have a productive off-season. I still haven't watched the Jaguars game (doing that today), so I can't comment on this game, but he appears to have done well.

[TacklingDummy]

He is really not having a bad rookie season, despite what people say.

I could back it up with facts, but you won't care - you and others never do

Yes the 28th rated QB in the NFL is really not having a bad season. Says only a homer Bills fan.

Facts are facts.

[gr8slayer]

I'm hardly a "homer", but I'll play along. Tell me, who is Manuel's number one WR? Who's the one guy he can go to when everything breaks down and have full confidence that that guy is going to go up and make a play to get him out of trouble?

Edit: QB rating is about the dumbest statistic in all of football, and a terrible way to judge a QB. If we're going that route, I'm going to go ahead and say that Tony Romo is one of the true elite QB's to ever play the game, as he's #2 all-time in QB rating.
Yes the 28th rated QB in the NFL is really not having a bad season. Says only a homer Bills fan.

Facts are facts.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yes the 28th rated QB in the NFL is really not having a bad season. Says only a homer Bills fan.

Facts are facts.

Do you want to compare his stats with that of other rookie QBs?

How about rookie QBs with rookie OCs?

And a rookie that missed a hunk of TC and part of the regular season?

But you never intended or wanted to give him a chance

[TacklingDummy]

I'm hardly a "homer", but I'll play along. Tell me, who is Manuel's number one WR? Who's the one guy he can go to when everything breaks down and have full confidence that that guy is going to go up and make a play to get him out of trouble?
QB make the receivers.
Receivers can't throw the ball to themselves.

More fun facts, 58.8 Comp %, 27th in the NFL.
6.44 YPA, 32nd in the NFL.

He's not having a bad season, he's awesome.

[Dr. Lecter]

I'm hardly a "homer", but I'll play along. Tell me, who is Manuel's number one WR? Who's the one guy he can go to when everything breaks down and have full confidence that that guy is going to go up and make a play to get him out of trouble?

Edit: QB rating is about the dumbest statistic in all of football, and a terrible way to judge a QB. If we're going that route, I'm going to go ahead and say that Tony Romo is one of the true elite QB's to ever play the game, as he's #2 all-time in QB rating.

He knows I am not a homer too - it is just easier for him to be dismissive that way.

And yes - QB rating is greatly over rated.

[gr8slayer]

Watching the game now, and just started the 2nd quarter. I'm not sure that any QB could do well with the pressure coming right up the middle. I'm hoping that the Bills make some adjustments on the OL; pressure right up the middle is every QB's worst nightmare.

[Dr. Lecter]

QB make the receivers.
Receivers can't throw the ball to themselves.

More fun facts, 58.8 Comp %, 27th in the NFL.
6.44 YPA, 32nd in the NFL.

He's not having a bad season, he's awesome.

Peyton's rookie year his comp % was 56.7%.

YPA - 6.50

I guess he sucks too.

[gr8slayer]

QB make the receivers.
Receivers can't throw the ball to themselves.

More fun facts, 58.8 Comp %, 27th in the NFL.
6.44 YPA, 32nd in the NFL.

He's not having a bad season, he's awesome.

That's one area of football where it's not black and white (QB's making WR's, or the other way around). For every example you give me of a QB making a WR, I'll give you an example of a WR making the QB (Justin Blackmon - when he's not drunk and Chad Henne, or even Blaine Gabbert is the first one that comes to mind). I know that it's virtually impossible to practice patience when the team has been so bad for so long, but QB isn't a position that you come into the league just ready to play, especially when you have nothing around you in the skill positions, a suspect OL (to say the least), an inconsistent running game, a rookie HC, missing a chunk of TC, injury issues... This guy was NOT READY TO PLAY this year. Anyone that watched him for five seconds in college saw that he had amazing upside, and all the "tools" you need to be a good QB in the NFL, but he was not a guy who was going to start from day one and be successful. Kolb going down was the worst thing that ever happened to E.J. Manuel and his NFL career, as he was rushed into something that he wasn't ready for, and the Bills weren't ready for.

I know from years of going back and forth with you that there's no changing your mind, especially when it comes to the QB position, but you're completely off base on this one, and it's far too early to start labeling the guy. The Bills (in typical Bills fashion) did a very poor job of surrounding him with what's necessary to succeed. The fish rots from the head down, my friend.

[WagonCircler]

I'm hardly a "homer", but I'll play along. Tell me, who is Manuel's number one WR?

Oh! Oh! Pick me!!!

It's the guy who fills the Gatorade buckets on the sidelines.

That's where most of his passes land.

[TacklingDummy]

That's one area of football where it's not black and white (QB's making WR's, or the other way around). For every example you give me of a QB making a WR, I'll give you an example of a WR making the QB (Justin Blackmon - when he's not drunk and Chad Henne, or even Blaine Gabbert is the first one that comes to mind). I know that it's virtually impossible to practice patience when the team has been so bad for so long, but QB isn't a position that you come into the league just ready to play, especially when you have nothing around you in the skill positions, a suspect OL (to say the least), an inconsistent running game, a rookie HC, missing a chunk of TC, injury issues... This guy was NOT READY TO PLAY this year. Anyone that watched him for five seconds in college saw that he had amazing upside, and all the "tools" you need to be a good QB in the NFL, but he was not a guy who was going to start from day one and be successful. Kolb going down was the worst thing that ever happened to E.J. Manuel and his NFL career, as he was rushed into something that he wasn't ready for, and the Bills weren't ready for.

I know from years of going back and forth with you that there's no changing your mind, especially when it comes to the QB position, but you're completely off base on this one, and it's far too early to start labeling the guy. The Bills (in typical Bills fashion) did a very poor job of surrounding him with what's necessary to succeed. The fish rots from the head down, my friend.
Blackmon has 29 Rec and 1 TD catch before being suspended. Henne has 10 TD passes on the year and 6 of those came in the last 3 games. Blackmon hasn't made anyone.

You are right a fish rots from the head down. The head of almost every consistently good team in NFL is the Quarterback. Everything starts and ends there. Without one teams are usually consistently bad. See Buffalo for most of its existence for a prime example.

[better days]

Considering what he's surrounded by, considering the injury issues, considering the rookie coach, he's actually having a damn good season for a rookie who was simply not NFL ready from day one. The Kolb injury really screwed everything up, and made him have to become the starter when he simply wasn't ready. Having said that, he's handled it well, and I think the guy has a bright future if he can have a productive off-season. I still haven't watched the Jaguars game (doing that today), so I can't comment on this game, but he appears to have done well.

Just fast forward through the first quarter.

[DraftBoy]

By quoting the actual guy we're talking about? With actual words out of his actual mouth?

It stands to reason that if that guy can't grasp the relatively simple concepts that allow for proper footwork or the importance of tucking the ball when you run with it, it's really not a stretch to imagine him struggling to grasp an Offensive system.

By quoting a rookie making a PR statement? Yes.

Because we all know nobody ever lies to the media about anything...

The ability to remember proper fundamentals and grasp the concept of packaged plays are not mutually exclusive. You are still attempting an argument without a single idea of what's even in the playbook or what he's struggling with or if the errant throws are based on his poor accuracy, a WR running the wrong route, or a failure on either party to make the right read of the D and execute the right part of the packaged play based on the number of route options.

Concepts are always simpler than trying to actually execute.

[Albany,n.y.]

Lynch was a risky keep, and probably never would have been a feature back here like he is in Seattle. If they didn't trade him, they would have either had to ditch Fred, not draft CJ, or listen to Marshawn ***** and moan because he was splitting carries. Worse, he would have run somebody else over. I don't regret that trade at all, despite the success and maturity Lynch has apparently found in Seattle.

They had no business drafting Spiller with Lynch & Jackson on the team. The 1st thing that did was totally devalue Lynch. So Buddy gave him away for nothing after making his trade value zero, great management.
Look at the guys who were picked later in the 1st round that they could have chosen instead of CJ if they weren't dumb enough to pick another RB & just give the ball to Lynch:
9 Buffalo Bills C. J. Spiller† RB Clemson ACC
10 Jacksonville Jaguars Tyson Alualu DT California Pac-10
11 San Francisco 49ers Anthony Davis OT Rutgers Big East from Chicago via Denver[R1 - 1]
12 San Diego Chargers Ryan Mathews† RB Fresno State WAC from Miami [R1 - 2]
13 Philadelphia Eagles Brandon Graham DE Michigan Big Ten from San Francisco via Denver[R1 - 3]
14 Seattle Seahawks Earl Thomas† S Texas Big 12 from Denver [R1 - 4]
15 New York Giants Jason Pierre-Paul† DE South Florida Big East
16 Tennessee Titans Derrick Morgan DE Georgia Tech ACC
17 San Francisco 49ers Mike Iupati† G Idaho WAC from Carolina [R1 - 5]
18 Pittsburgh Steelers Maurkice Pouncey† C Florida SEC
19 Atlanta Falcons Sean Weatherspoon LB Missouri Big 12
20 Houston Texans Kareem Jackson CB Alabama SEC
21 Cincinnati Bengals Jermaine Gresham† TE Oklahoma Big 12
22 Denver Broncos Demaryius Thomas† WR Georgia Tech ACC from New England [R1 - 6]
23 Green Bay Packers Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa Big Ten
24 Dallas Cowboys Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma State Big 12 from Philadelphia via Denver and New England[R1 - 7]
25 Denver Broncos Tim Tebow QB Florida SEC from Baltimore [R1 - 8]
26 Arizona Cardinals Dan Williams DT Tennessee SEC
27 New England Patriots Devin McCourty†

[gr8slayer]

You're crazy, man. Blackmon was about as electric as any WR in the league this year... when he actually played:
- @St. Louis: 5 rec, 136 yards, 1 TD.
- @Denver: 14 rec, 190 yards, 0 TD's (injury in this game).
- San Diego: 6 rec, 58 yards, 0 TD's.
- San Francisco: 4 rec, 31 yards, 0 TD's (suspended for a year after this game, done).

In 2012, he took over several games, and extended Chad Henne's career a few years.

That's 29 rec, 415 yards, 1 TD through only 4 games, with limited practice due to suspension. If those stats aren't him making his horrible QB's, then I quit football. Need more examples? I've got plenty.





Blackmon has 29 Rec and 1 TD catch before being suspended. Henne has 10 TD passes on the year and 6 of those came in the last 3 games. Blackmon hasn't made anyone.

You are right a fish rots from the head down. The head of almost every consistently good team in NFL is the Quarterback. Everything starts and ends there. Without one teams are usually consistently bad. See Buffalo for most of its existence for a prime example.

[gr8slayer]

Getting rid of Mashawn Lynch, who I consider the best RB in the entire league (including AP), was about the dumbest thing I've seen from any team. Only to be rivaled by letting London Fletcher go (then having to spend 2 second round picks on MLB's to replace him), getting rid of Jason Peters (who's still amongst the best LT's in the league right now, spent a second rounder to replace him), and letting "Fat" Pat Williams walk. Next up, letting Byrd walk for nothing, and having to spend a high round pick to replace him.
They had no business drafting Spiller with Lynch & Jackson on the team. The 1st thing that did was totally devalue Lynch. So Buddy gave him away for nothing after making his trade value zero, great management.
Look at the guys who were picked later in the 1st round that they could have chosen instead of CJ if they weren't dumb enough to pick another RB & just give the ball to Lynch:
9 Buffalo Bills C. J. Spiller† RB Clemson ACC
10 Jacksonville Jaguars Tyson Alualu DT California Pac-10
11 San Francisco 49ers Anthony Davis OT Rutgers Big East from Chicago via Denver[R1 - 1]
12 San Diego Chargers Ryan Mathews† RB Fresno State WAC from Miami [R1 - 2]
13 Philadelphia Eagles Brandon Graham DE Michigan Big Ten from San Francisco via Denver[R1 - 3]
14 Seattle Seahawks Earl Thomas† S Texas Big 12 from Denver [R1 - 4]
15 New York Giants Jason Pierre-Paul† DE South Florida Big East
16 Tennessee Titans Derrick Morgan DE Georgia Tech ACC
17 San Francisco 49ers Mike Iupati† G Idaho WAC from Carolina [R1 - 5]
18 Pittsburgh Steelers Maurkice Pouncey† C Florida SEC
19 Atlanta Falcons Sean Weatherspoon LB Missouri Big 12
20 Houston Texans Kareem Jackson CB Alabama SEC
21 Cincinnati Bengals Jermaine Gresham† TE Oklahoma Big 12
22 Denver Broncos Demaryius Thomas† WR Georgia Tech ACC from New England [R1 - 6]
23 Green Bay Packers Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa Big Ten
24 Dallas Cowboys Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma State Big 12 from Philadelphia via Denver and New England[R1 - 7]
25 Denver Broncos Tim Tebow QB Florida SEC from Baltimore [R1 - 8]
26 Arizona Cardinals Dan Williams DT Tennessee SEC
27 New England Patriots Devin McCourty†

[kishoph]

Considering what he's surrounded by, considering the injury issues, considering the rookie coach, he's actually having a damn good season for a rookie who was simply not NFL ready from day one. The Kolb injury really screwed everything up, and made him have to become the starter when he simply wasn't ready. Having said that, he's handled it well, and I think the guy has a bright future if he can have a productive off-season. I still haven't watched the Jaguars game (doing that today), so I can't comment on this game, but he appears to have done well.

It's not only that the Bills had no option other than making Manuel the starter, Manuel has had no veteran QB to learn from, he's had Lewis and Tuel behind him. There's things that a young QB can learn from a veteran QB, that he'll never get from a coach, especially a coach that has never played the position.

[gr8slayer]

An absolutely valid point.
It's not only that the Bills had no option other than making Manuel the starter, Manuel has had no veteran QB to learn from, he's had Lewis and Tuel behind him. There's things that a young QB can learn from a veteran QB, that he'll never get from a coach, especially a coach that has never played the position.

[gr8slayer]

@Tacklingdummy: I just watched the game a couple of times, and you know what, I wasn't impressed with what E.J. did this week. His stat line isn't bad, but he made a lot of less than intelligent decisions and ran WAY too much. If Manuel is running the ball anywhere close to 10 times, there's something either wrong with him, or there's something fundamentally wrong with the offense. What's more frustrating is that it appeared that he had options on at least four of those runs, but he panicked and tucked the ball and ran (by the way, this is EXTREMELY common with rookie QB's). That first quarter is probably the worst first quarter I've seen from any QB this year. Having said that, he gathered himself after a pathetic first quarter, and got progressively better as the game went on, and that's what you want to see from your rookie QB; how does he handle himself after failure.

Johnson not turning his head on that slant pattern is about the most frustrating thing I've seen all year, a veteran WR has to have better awareness than that. The drop by Goodwin late in the game is inexcusable. The pressure up the middle on 12 of the drop backs (by my count), is completely pathetic.

I'd like to ask you an honest question. Let's assume that nothing changes, and the Bills hold on to the #10 pick. Let's also assume that Teddy Bridgewater stays in college another year. What is your solution at QB in 2014? What's your ideal situation?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Back to the topic...

The fact is that if it had have been Aaron Rodgers who turned in that exact same game, everyone would be saying how great Rodgers was and this was one of the best examples of his brilliance and one of the greatest games he'd ever played.

But since it was Matt Flynn, well, he got lucky.

Anyway, I don't think the Bills want to bring in a qb that IN ANY WAY would be a challenge to EJ's status.

Since EJ seems to be the black JP Losman, they in no way wanted to have another Kelly Holcomb around.

Thad and Tuel know their place and are no threat to Manuel's position.

[SpikedLemonade]

Oh crap! Here we go again!

[TacklingDummy]

@Tacklingdummy:

I'd like to ask you an honest question. Let's assume that nothing changes, and the Bills hold on to the #10 pick. Let's also assume that Teddy Bridgewater stays in college another year. What is your solution at QB in 2014? What's your ideal situation? I've already said several times EJ gets next year and the Bills should draft Mike Evans in the 1st and hopefully with the Byrd pick Jace Amaro will still be on the board.

[WagonCircler]

If Manuel is running the ball anywhere close to 10 times, there's something either wrong with him

Oh, and by the way, he injured a knee--AGAIN.

If he keeps running the ball 10X a game, none of this will matter. He'll be on I.R. every year.


Johnson not turning his head on that slant pattern is about the most frustrating thing I've seen all year, a veteran WR has to have better awareness than that.

His mother died the day before. I'm no Stevie fan, but I'll cut him some slack for anything that happened Sunday.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Eli Manning can flip you off with both hands while wearing a Super Bowl ring on each middle finger.

This mental image made me laugh.

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-30159-Eli-Manning-deal-with-it-gif-I-Bl7W.gif


Edit: QB rating is about the dumbest statistic in all of football, and a terrible way to judge a QB. If we're going that route, I'm going to go ahead and say that Tony Romo is one of the true elite QB's to ever play the game, as he's #2 all-time in QB rating.

QB rating doesn't capture when bad plays occur. In the Denver game, Romo played one of the greatest games a QB has ever played - and lost on a brainlock INT, which became the story. I said it before, Romo is one of the best pure passers in the league. He's just not a good quarterback.


Back to the topic...

The fact is that if it had have been Aaron Rodgers who turned in that exact same game, everyone would be saying how great Rodgers was and this was one of the best examples of his brilliance and one of the greatest games he'd ever played.

But since it was Matt Flynn, well, he got lucky.

I don't think anyone said Flynn got lucky, just that he is playing in a system he knows very well against a team with an atrocious defense. The league has a ton of guys who were successful in one situation and then couldn't recapture it elsewhere, and it seems like Flynn is one of those players.

[sukie]

Wasn't this a thread a few years back titled... Kelly Holcombe

[CommissarSpartacus]

I don't think anyone said Flynn got lucky, just that he is playing in a system he knows very well against a team with an atrocious defense. The league has a ton of guys who were successful in one situation and then couldn't recapture it elsewhere, and it seems like Flynn is one of those players.

:rofl:

It would seem to me that "he is playing in a system he knows very well against a team with an atrocious defense." is saying he got lucky.

Cuz no one would mention this stuff if it was Rodgers, as I said.

[sukie]

Is the system the same now that Philbin isn't there?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

:rofl:

It would seem to me that "he is playing in a system he knows very well against a team with an atrocious defense." is saying he got lucky.

Cuz no one would mention this stuff if it was Rodgers, as I said.

You're trying to conflate two separate points here, and it doesn't fit. On Sunday, Flynn was in a situation primed for him to succeed, and he succeeded. That's not luck. Auburn is in the national title game because of a hail mary and the longest play in college football history against the #1 team - that is luck.

But to claim that he could have matched that success here in Buffalo doesn't hold. The man has thrown 16 career TDs, and 13 of them have come in three games spread over four seasons - all in a Packers uniform. He's had legitimate chances to win starting jobs on three other teams and failed to do it.

Some players have their niche. Flynn found his. Good on him for pocketing like $20 million while he surfed around though.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Is the system the same now that Philbin isn't there?

It's McCarthy's system, really, and they certainly aren't going to make major changes to an offense that won them a Super Bowl and made their QB into the NFL MVP.

[kishoph]

Back to the topic...

The fact is that if it had have been Aaron Rodgers who turned in that exact same game, everyone would be saying how great Rodgers was and this was one of the best examples of his brilliance and one of the greatest games he'd ever played.

But since it was Matt Flynn, well, he got lucky.



I think Rogers has turned in quite a few games that were much better, than what Flynn did this week. Look at Flynn's previous 3 games, where he had 5 turnovers (2 ints. and 3 FL) to 2 TD's and you might see that this past game was not the norm for Flynn. In the last 4 games he has played 3 of the worst passing defenses in the league, all worse than the Jags, but it's EJ's game is being downplayed because he played against a weak defense.
I do wish the Bills would of kept Flynn on the team, but to be the backup and not the starter. Lets not forget this is Flynn's 6th year in the league, Manuel has less than 1 season. Also the Packers have a few WR's with years of game experience, the Bills have one. All this makes a difference, but some people don't want to believe that.

[better days]

Eli Manning can flip you off with both hands while wearing a Super Bowl ring on each middle finger.

EJ Manning has accomplished nothing.

This is like comparing apples to auto parts.

EJ is a ROOKIE.

What did Eli accomplish his rookie year?

What did Eli Manning accomplish this year?

Ans to above questions: NOTHING

[gr8slayer]

If it was just yesterday, I'd be right there with you, but Johnson has played poorly quite a bit this year. The guy just isn't #1 WR material.
Oh, and by the way, he injured a knee--AGAIN.

If he keeps running the ball 10X a game, none of this will matter. He'll be on I.R. every year.



His mother died the day before. I'm no Stevie fan, but I'll cut him some slack for anything that happened Sunday.

[WagonCircler]

If it was just yesterday, I'd be right there with you, but Johnson has played poorly quite a bit this year. The guy just isn't #1 WR material.

I totally agree. I'm just taking a moratorium on Stevie bashing. He gets a pass from me regarding playing distracted vs. Jax.

Stevie is barely #2 material.

[swiper]

I totally agree. I'm just taking a moratorium on Stevie bashing. He gets a pass from me regarding playing distracted vs. Jax.

Stevie is barely #2 material.


Totally agree with that assessment. Like Buffalo sports teams trying to elevate players to spots they shouldn't be:

The Bills make Fitzpatrick a starter.

The Sabres make Roy, Connolly, Hodgson #1 centers.

The Bills make Johnson a #1 WR.

The Bills make Eric Pears a starting RT.

The Sabres let Stafford play anywhere.

On and on and on....

[swiper]

Following your logic, Seattle & Oakland also must be stupid.

Sorry you're wrong about this. Oakland and Buffalo prove they are bad organizations by not elevating Flynn like the Packers do. Seattle didn't need him (especially for that money). And that is the facts. Using "systems" as an excuse is just that, an excuse. It is covering up for flawed coaching and player assessment. The Packers know what they're doing, the Bills & Raiders don't. Flynn has proven again that he can play.

[Mr. Pink]

Stevie is the best WR the Bills have had since Andre Reed.

Even Eric Moulds dropped a bunch of passes and later in his career pretty much stopped going across the middle.

[Dr. Lecter]

Stevie is the best WR the Bills have had since Andre Reed.

Even Eric Moulds dropped a bunch of passes and later in his career pretty much stopped going across the middle.

I like Stevie, but he is not better than Moulds.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I think Rogers has turned in quite a few games that were much better, than what Flynn did this week.

This was the GREATEST comeback in Packers history, and Matt Flynn did it.

Not Aaron Rodgers, not Bret Favre, not Bart Starr.

Matt Flynn.

Just a statistical oddity I guess.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I totally agree. I'm just taking a moratorium on Stevie bashing. He gets a pass from me regarding playing distracted vs. Jax.

Stevie is barely #2 material.

Stevie's one of the reasons I haven't been commenting on the team this year.

He's just too frustrating.

Maybe the death of his mom will help him grow up.

[Albany,n.y.]

This was the GREATEST comeback in Packers history, and Matt Flynn did it.

Not Aaron Rodgers, not Bret Favre, not Bart Starr.

Matt Flynn.

Just a statistical oddity I guess.

Or, Rodgers, Favre or Starr would never get as far behind against a comparable team to the 2013 Cowboys as GB did in the 1st half with Flynn and there would be no need for a great comeback.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Or, Rodgers, Favre or Starr would never get as far behind against a comparable team to the 2013 Cowboys as GB did in the 1st half with Flynn and there would be no need for a great comeback.

Sure about that?

[Mouldsie]

Name me 64 WR's better than Stevie Johnson

[Mr. Pink]

I like Stevie, but he is not better than Moulds.

How so?

Moulds dropped the ball just as much, didn't spread defenses and became afraid of even going across the middle.

They're very similar guys even going with their career patterns up to this point.

Now hopefully Stevie doesn't develop a phobia of running patterns over the middle too.

[Night Train]

Where are all the Flynn lovers today ? He is handing the Steelers the game with his horrid play.

We can close this ******ed thread now.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Matt Flynn may have poise and accuracy, but football to the groin has a football to the groin

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19a85ifk9qgukgif/ku-xlarge.gif

[CommissarSpartacus]

Flynn played another impressive game against a top defense and came within one play of winning.

Can he beat Jay Cutler in Chicago? Philly just gave them a pretty great blueprint.

[jdaltroy5]

Flynn played another impressive game against a top defense and came within one play of winning.

Can he beat Jay Cutler in Chicago? Philly just gave them a pretty great blueprint.Yes, very impressive.

I was particularly impressed when he fumbled the ball in a tied game with 2 minutes left and when he didn't know that the clock would continue to run after a false start penalty. His beautiful pick 6 was also very impressive.

Flynn is terrible.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes, very impressive.

I was particularly impressed when he fumbled the ball in a tied game with 2 minutes left and when he didn't know that the clock would continue to run after a false start penalty. His beautiful pick 6 was also very impressive.

Flynn is terrible.

He put his team in position to send the Steelers to overtime. We play the Steelers and just get mopped all over the field and look terrible. So if Flynn is terrible based on his Pittsburgh performance, what's EJ?

I would have rather watched the Bills Steelers game go like the Pack Steelers game, that's for sure.

[EricStratton]

When did Green Bay or Dallas for that matter become a top defense?

[The Jokeman]

Yes, very impressive.

I was particularly impressed when he fumbled the ball in a tied game with 2 minutes left and when he didn't know that the clock would continue to run after a false start penalty. His beautiful pick 6 was also very impressive.

Flynn is terrible.

Flynn is as good as any backup QB in the league for the Packers. That stated I'm glad the Bills don't have him. As think we have a good pair in EJ and Thad Lewis. Now if management would just release Tuel or better yet develop on the practice squad next year I'd be happy.

[jdaltroy5]

He put his team in position to send the Steelers to overtime. We play the Steelers and just get mopped all over the field and look terrible. So if Flynn is terrible based on his Pittsburgh performance, what's EJ?

I would have rather watched the Bills Steelers game go like the Pack Steelers game, that's for sure.No, he didn't put them in a position to send it to OT. The 70 yard kick return put them in a position to send it OT.

I'm not really sure why you're comparing Flynn to EJ either. Flynn's in his 6th year in the NFL while EJ is a rookie.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I was particularly impressed when he fumbled the ball in a tied game with 2 minutes left and when he didn't know that the clock would continue to run after a false start penalty. His beautiful pick 6 was also very impressive.


This is so dumb it doesn't deserve a response.

[Mr. Pink]

No, he didn't put them in a position to send it to OT. The 70 yard kick return put them in a position to send it OT.

I'm not really sure why you're comparing Flynn to EJ either. Flynn's in his 6th year in the NFL while EJ is a rookie.

The simple fact that Flynn was on the roster at one point this year.

So far every QB that was on the roster minus Kolb has performed equal or better than EJ this season but keep hope alive that one day Mr First Round will ever do anything of note.