Bills currently picking 10th with two games left

[T-Long]

1. Houston Texans (2-12)
SoS = .555

2. St. Louis Rams, via Washington Redskins (3-11)
SoS = .507

3. Jacksonville Jaguars (4-10)
SoS = .497

4. Oakland Raiders (4-10)
SoS = .505

5. Cleveland Browns (4-10)
SoS = .516

6. Atlanta Falcons (4-10)
SoS = .552

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-10)
SoS = .577

8. Minnesota Vikings (4-9-1)
SoS = .521

9. Tennessee Titans (5-9)
SoS = .495

10. Buffalo Bills (5-9)
SoS = .525

[WagonCircler]

Same as it ever was.

16721

[SpikedLemonade]

The homers will tell us that "good players can be found everywhere in the draft...".

It is almost as if they are in denial of Bills management over the past 15 years.

Crap we even have an idiot here who thinks Buddy Nix did a great job.

[EDS]

Top 10! What an impressive achievement by the Bills organization.

[better days]

The homers will tell us that "good players can be found everywhere in the draft...".

It is almost as if they are in denial of Bills management over the past 15 years.

Crap we even have an idiot here who thinks Buddy Nix did a great job.

Well, we have an idiot here that thinks the same people are in charge that were in charge 15 years ago.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

The homers will tell us that "good players can be found everywhere in the draft...".

It is almost as if they are in denial of Bills management over the past 15 years.

Crap we even have an idiot here who thinks Buddy Nix did a great job.

The realist in me says, Spiked please, this team could get a top five and mess up. No, I don't mean Marcel Dareus. I mean Mike Williams.

[Historian]

I would like to see them win out and make 7-9...draft be damned.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Top 10! What an impressive achievement by the Bills organization.

If that excites you, then wait until I tell you that we are going to finish in the top four of the AFC east.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I would like to see them win out and make 7-9...draft be damned.

Me too, of course I'd also like to be admitted to the U. of Illinois or Notre Dame for my PhD program, travel to Europe, have a six digit income, and own a functioning car. Oddly, I think I will get the other things I want, 7-9, well. . . .

[better days]

The realist in me says, Spiked please, this team could get a top five and mess up. No, I don't mean Marcel Dareus. I mean Mike Williams.

So, like Spiked, you think the same people are running the draft that were running it when Mike Williams was drafted.

IDIOTS.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

So, like Spiked, you think the same people are running the draft that were running it when Mike Williams was drafted.

IDIOTS.

Thank you, thank you for completely missing my point. I think that again the front office is being done on the cheap and that while I would agree that the draft is a crapshoot that one does have to spend money to land people who are good at scouting talent. Our drafts obviously are not producing a lot of talent or else we'd be a lot more competitive than we are.

[Mr. Pink]

Oddly enough if they picked 5th through 15th I don't think the guy they take will be any different.

If Byrd goes the pick is Clinton Dix. If Byrd stays it's Mack.

Wouldn't matter where in that range we pick, it won't change the selection.

[WagonCircler]

Thank you, thank you for completely missing my point. I think that again the front office is being done on the cheap and that while I would agree that the draft is a crapshoot that one does have to spend money to land people who are good at scouting talent. Our drafts obviously are not producing a lot of talent or else we'd be a lot more competitive than we are.

It starts at the top, and as we all know, ******** runs downhill.

Thanks Ralph Wilson, aka "Guy who ran off Lou Saban and Bill Polian, but gave us geniuses like Russ Brandon!"

[X-Era]

Oddly enough if they picked 5th through 15th I don't think the guy they take will be any different.

If Byrd goes the pick is Clinton Dix. If Byrd stays it's Mack.

Wouldn't matter where in that range we pick, it won't change the selection.I don't want Clinton-Dix. Not real impressed with him.

But I agree, there will be a good propsect to take that fits a need whether it's at 5 or 15.

Mack, Watkins, Lee, Kouandjio (at G), Evans, Ebron. One of those guys will be there.

[X-Era]

1. Houston Texans (2-12)
SoS = .555

2. St. Louis Rams, via Washington Redskins (3-11)
SoS = .507

3. Jacksonville Jaguars (4-10)
SoS = .497

4. Oakland Raiders (4-10)
SoS = .505

5. Cleveland Browns (4-10)
SoS = .516

6. Atlanta Falcons (4-10)
SoS = .552

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-10)
SoS = .577

8. Minnesota Vikings (4-9-1)
SoS = .521

9. Tennessee Titans (5-9)
SoS = .495

10. Buffalo Bills (5-9)
SoS = .525
So Tampa and ATL can drop below us with a win due to a) beating us and b) higher SOS.

[tampabay25690]

I like Evans WR from A@M or Mack would be great as well..
Could go a few directions with a top 10 pick.
Also could see the Bills trading back for more picks...

[X-Era]

I like Evans WR from A@M or Mack would be great as well..
Could go a few directions with a top 10 pick.
Also could see the Bills trading back for more picks...
I like Moncrief.

[SquishDaFish]

I like Evans and Mack

[SpikedLemonade]

So Tampa and ATL can drop below us with a win due to a) beating us and b) higher SOS.

The tie breaker is strictly SOS. Head to head is irrelevant for these purposes.

Also keep in mind that the SOS is the SOS thus far. Once we play Miami and NE our SOS will go up considerably which could mean our draft pick drops.

[swiper]

Same as it ever was.

16721

Oh goodie. We can get the next Donte Whitner!

[Skooby]

We're not beating Miami or New England, nor are we moving from the 10th spot.

[better days]

Thank you, thank you for completely missing my point. I think that again the front office is being done on the cheap and that while I would agree that the draft is a crapshoot that one does have to spend money to land people who are good at scouting talent. Our drafts obviously are not producing a lot of talent or else we'd be a lot more competitive than we are.

Well, I have said it MANY times. Nix FIXED the scouting dept while he was GM. Look at LAST YEARS draft, not the draft from 14 years ago.

The Bills had one of the best drafts in the NFL LAST year.

I don't care what happened 14 years ago............that can't be changed.

I do care about what will happen in the next 14 years & if the Bills keep drafting like they did last year, I see GOOD times ahead.

[Skooby]

Well, I have said it MANY times. Nix FIXED the scouting dept while he was GM. Look at LAST YEARS draft, not the draft from 14 years ago.

The Bills had one of the best drafts in the NFL LAST year.

I don't care what happened 14 years ago............that can't be changed.

I do care about what will happen in the next 14 years & if the Bills keep drafting like they did last year, I see GOOD times ahead.

After watching EJ yesterday, I'd like to dispute the best draft theory. Did we get some great value ?? Sure. Best draft, not close. Our draft bar was set so low, that any sign of life is like fulfilling a dream.

[better days]

After watching EJ yesterday, I'd like to dispute the best draft theory. Did we get some great value ?? Sure. Best draft, not close. Our draft bar was set so low, that any sign of life is like fulfilling a dream.

I said the Bills had one of the best drafts. I did not say it was the very best.

Even if EJ is not in the equation, FEW teams had as good a draft as the Bills did last year.

And IF EJ does become a franchise QB it will be the VERY best draft.....................will will see about that in about 3 or 4 years.

[WagonCircler]

I said the Bills had one of the best drafts. I did not say it was the very best.

Even if EJ is not in the equation, FEW teams had as good a draft as the Bills did last year.

And IF EJ does become a franchise QB it will be the VERY best draft.....................will will see about that in about 3 or 4 years.

Ohhhhh, I see. You're the resident lollipops and rainbows guy. Reality be damned!

Hey, did you send in your deposit for Bills playoff tickets yet?

[Skooby]

Ohhhhh, I see. You're the resident lollipops and rainbows guy. Reality be damned!

Hey, did you send in your deposit for Bills playoff tickets yet?

Reality is always hidden in denial.

[WagonCircler]

Reality is always hidden in denial.

And in the case of the Bills, it always ends with drafting in the upper third of the first round.

[better days]

Ohhhhh, I see. You're the resident lollipops and rainbows guy. Reality be damned!

Hey, did you send in your deposit for Bills playoff tickets yet?

Maybe you should change your screen name. No wagon train would have survived a raid by a hand full of Indians if they circled the wagons like you.

[WagonCircler]

Maybe you should change your screen name. No wagon train would have survived a raid by a hand full of Indians if they circled the wagons like you.

wow.

Don't quit your day job, brother man.

You were born without the clever gene.

[better days]

wow.

Don't quit your day job, brother man.

You were born without the clever gene.

LOL, like your retort was so clever. Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode with George trying to insult someone.

Hey that's it, you should change your screen name to George.

[TacklingDummy]

1. Houston Texans (2-12)
SoS = .555

2. St. Louis Rams, via Washington Redskins (3-11)
SoS = .507

3. Jacksonville Jaguars (4-10)
SoS = .497

4. Oakland Raiders (4-10)
SoS = .505

5. Cleveland Browns (4-10)
SoS = .516

6. Atlanta Falcons (4-10)
SoS = .552

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-10)
SoS = .577

8. Minnesota Vikings (4-9-1)
SoS = .521

9. Tennessee Titans (5-9)
SoS = .495

10. Buffalo Bills (5-9)
SoS = .525where would we be picking if we lost to the Jags, fins and Pats? Hooray for meaningless wins.

[gr8slayer]

That's about the worst position to be in. You're not good enough to make a playoff run, but you're not bad enough to get a premium pick.

[trapezeus]

So, like Spiked, you think the same people are running the draft that were running it when Mike Williams was drafted.

IDIOTS.

alot of the same scouting staff exists from those days. they rearrange some chairs occassionally, but its the same room with the same people. some different titles. they want to wow people with their knowledge instead of taking the sure thing. this has been part of the bills process the last 15-20 years without regard to who is "running it" and its because russ and ralph are cut from the same clothe. It's their cronies who are trying to appease their pathetic management style.

[better days]

alot of the same scouting staff exists from those days. they rearrange some chairs occassionally, but its the same room with the same people. some different titles. they want to wow people with their knowledge instead of taking the sure thing. this has been part of the bills process the last 15-20 years without regard to who is "running it" and its because russ and ralph are cut from the same clothe. It's their cronies who are trying to appease their pathetic management style.

If any scouts are still here from the past, they are good scouts.

Nix got rid of the dead wood & he also ADDED MORE scouts so now there are more people involved in the scouting dept.

It is NOTHING like 15 years ago NOW & last years draft proves that.

When is the last time the Bills had a draft as good as the last one?

[trapezeus]

it's always easy to say the last draft was good because players have to play. but look at the WR corp. they again went after small fast guys. The team needs some big bodies for a rookie qb. not TE options. Graham sucked two years ago.

Time will tell how it turned out. Kiko is the only one who seems legitimately a superstar. and yes, thanks to a number of crappy buddy drafts where players who were drafted didn't make the team that year (Wang, Carder, etc) this looks particularly ok.

To say "it is nothing like 15 years ago now" is childish. i want this team to win as badly as anyone. but with a crash course destiny to be 6-10 yet again, i think it's easy to say absolutely nothing has changed.

know the difference between what you want to happen and what actually is happening. The team is still run very poorly and we are all just holding on for a lotto type chance of being good one year. and if they are, they'll cut all the good pieces for asking to be paid. that's why the inside of the bills is rotten to the core.

[mysticsoto]

Ohhhhh, I see. You're the resident lollipops and rainbows guy. Reality be damned!

Hey, did you send in your deposit for Bills playoff tickets yet?

So you're chastising "better days" for being a resident rainbow guy while dismissing him for acknowledging that EJ needs time to develop as a rookie QB? Speaking of reality...what did Cam Newton do in his 1st rookie year? And he was drafted much higher...RGIII just got benched. Anyone already advocating to replace EJ after 14 games (not you necessarily - but others on this thread) are completely ridiculous!

[gr8slayer]

And you know what, both Cam Newton and RGIII were more "NFL ready" right out of college than E.J. was. You can't make a decision on a QB after one year, you honestly can't do it after two years, it truly takes a few seasons to know what you really have in a young QB.
So you're chastising "better days" for being a resident rainbow guy while dismissing him for acknowledging that EJ needs time to develop as a rookie QB? Speaking of reality...what did Cam Newton do in his 1st rookie year? And he was drafted much higher...RGIII just got benched. Anyone already advocating to replace EJ after 14 games (not you necessarily - but others on this thread) are completely ridiculous!

[mysticsoto]

it's always easy to say the last draft was good because players have to play. but look at the WR corp. they again went after small fast guys. The team needs some big bodies for a rookie qb. not TE options. Graham sucked two years ago.

Time will tell how it turned out. Kiko is the only one who seems legitimately a superstar. and yes, thanks to a number of crappy buddy drafts where players who were drafted didn't make the team that year (Wang, Carder, etc) this looks particularly ok.

To say "it is nothing like 15 years ago now" is childish. i want this team to win as badly as anyone. but with a crash course destiny to be 6-10 yet again, i think it's easy to say absolutely nothing has changed.

know the difference between what you want to happen and what actually is happening. The team is still run very poorly and we are all just holding on for a lotto type chance of being good one year. and if they are, they'll cut all the good pieces for asking to be paid. that's why the inside of the bills is rotten to the core.

We tried that with James Hardy a few yrs back and it didn't help. Marcus Easley is also 6'2" but hasn't contributed as much as expected. So was Sam Aiken. I think Mike Evans, at 6'5", makes alot of sense for us in this coming draft, but I wouldn't say that is the only option and drafting at #10 probably means he's out of our reach but we have enough holes that we can surely fill a different one instead.

[SpikedLemonade]

...what did Cam Newton do in his 1st rookie year?

Set records.

It is unfair to compare EJ to Cam or RGIII.

We knew when he fell to 16th it would be a project.

[trapezeus]

top 10 picks for most of the last 15 years plus free agents like mario should have resulted in a pretty amazing team if you had a great front office. or one who reads the same stuff we read. but they over think everything.

it doesn't matter if we pick first or last, russ has a bunch of monkeys throwing darts at the draft board. this team will be no better next year than it is now.

[better days]

top 10 picks for most of the last 15 years plus free agents like mario should have resulted in a pretty amazing team if you had a great front office. or one who reads the same stuff we read. but they over think everything.

it doesn't matter if we pick first or last, russ has a bunch of monkeys throwing darts at the draft board. this team will be no better next year than it is now.

Well, you will be proven WRONG. The Bills will draft well again this year. I expect them to make the playoffs next year.

And to cite two LOW round picks Wang & Carder as guys that did not make the roster just goes to show how WEAK your argument is.

To say it is like it was 14 years ago is childish. Because that is just not the case as I have already pointed out to you.

And your retort is Wang & Carder LOL.

[EDS]

If any scouts are still here from the past, they are good scouts.

Nix got rid of the dead wood & he also ADDED MORE scouts so now there are more people involved in the scouting dept.

It is NOTHING like 15 years ago NOW & last years draft proves that.

When is the last time the Bills had a draft as good as the last one?

Other than Kiko, is there a player the Bills selected in the 2013 draft that has exceeded expectations? No one besides him is a guaranteed long term starter.

Arguably the 2009 draft class was better after yeara one as you had three guys you felt comfortable with being long term starters. I could also point to the 2001 draft class, where the rookie contributions of Travis Henry, Aaron Schobel, Nate Clements and Jonas Jennings were significant.

[SpikedLemonade]

Well, you will be proven WRONG. The Bills will draft well again this year. I expect them to make the playoffs next year.

Ridiculous. The Bills will not make the play-offs next year.

You also said if the Bills don't win 6 games this year, Marrone should be fired.

Still feel that way?

[better days]

Other than Kiko, is there a player the Bills selected in the 2013 draft that has exceeded expectations? No one besides him is a guaranteed long term starter.

Arguably the 2009 draft class was better after yeara one as you had three guys you felt comfortable with being long term starters. I could also point to the 2001 draft class, where the rookie contributions of Travis Henry, Aaron Schobel, Nate Clements and Jonas Jennings were significant.

So you don't think Wood has exceeded expectations? You must have expected a lot from him, but I doubt many others did.

I expect EJ, Kiko, Wood, Goodwin to be long term starters & I expect a couple others to play roles on this team.

And I expect another GOOD draft this year.

[HAMMER]

Other than Kiko, is there a player the Bills selected in the 2013 draft that has exceeded expectations? No one besides him is a guaranteed long term starter.

Arguably the 2009 draft class was better after yeara one as you had three guys you felt comfortable with being long term starters. I could also point to the 2001 draft class, where the rookie contributions of Travis Henry, Aaron Schobel, Nate Clements and Jonas Jennings were significant.

Apparently you haven't watched Robert Woods play, he will be starting for the rest of his career barring injury. He is good, very good.

[better days]

Ridiculous. The Bills will not make the play-offs next year.

You also said if the Bills don't win 6 games this year, Marrone should be fired.

Still feel that way?

I already said I would give Marrone a pass because of all the injuries so no I don't want him fired.

I also still expect the Bills to win at least 6 games & I expect that to happen Sunday against the Fins.

[EDS]

So you don't think Wood has exceeded expectations? You must have expected a lot from him, but I doubt many others did.

I expect EJ, Kiko, Wood, Goodwin to be long term starters & I expect a couple others to play roles on this team.

And I expect another GOOD draft this year.

No I do not think Wood has exceeded expectations. Keenan Allan, by way of example, has exceeded expectations. If Wood was an undrafted free agent like Kenbrell Thompkins, who has similar contributions this season, then he would have exceeded expectations. Wood was a high second round pick who was advertised as being NFL ready.

[EDS]

Apparently you haven't watched Robert Woods play, he will be starting for the rest of his career barring injury. He is good, very good.

There are legions of players people have said the very same thing about after a decent first year.

[Ed]

I think the Bills are actually picking 9th right now. I don't know where those SOS numbers come from, but espn has the Bills SOS at .510, Tennesse at .541, and the Giants at .551. Their numbers are current SOS. Some sites use projected SOS.

[better days]

No I do not think Wood has exceeded expectations. Keenan Allan, by way of example, has exceeded expectations. If Wood was an undrafted free agent like Kenbrell Thompkins, who has similar contributions this season, then he would have exceeded expectations. Wood was a high second round pick who was advertised as being NFL ready.

OK maybe he didn't exceed expectations, but at the very least, he lived up to his expectations. MANY players drafted do not do that.

The fact is this was a VERY GOOD draft & if EJ becomes a franchise QB which he has the potential to do, this will be a GREAT draft.

And I expect more of the same in the drafts to come now that Nix has fixed the scouting dept.

[better days]

There are legions of players people have said the very same thing about after a decent first year.

And many of those players that had career years their rookie year were INJURED after that or got in trouble off the field which affected their play on the field.

[Skooby]

I think the Bills are actually picking 9th right now. I don't know where those SOS numbers come from, but espn has the Bills SOS at .510, Tennesse at .541, and the Giants at .551. Their numbers are current SOS. Some sites use projected SOS.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/107415/2014-draft-order-week-15

11th ?

[Ingtar33]

Well, you will be proven WRONG. The Bills will draft well again this year. I expect them to make the playoffs next year.

i wish i had a dose of that enthusiasm... the last 15 years of bills football really have leached it all away from me. I just don't have any hope in the front office getting an offseason right. Even if the bills have a solid draft they typically botch it up by letting key home grown talent vets walk; opening new holes in the lineup and keeping us in a perpetual wasteland of mediocrity. One step forward, two to the left, two to the right and one backward. That seems to be the bills offseasons in a nutshell. If we're unlucky we'll take 2 steps back... sadly its been a long long time since we made any appreciable progress forward on the football field... the last bits of progress i've seen were probably with Tom Donahoe at GM~

[mysticsoto]

Set records.

It is unfair to compare EJ to Cam or RGIII.

We knew when he fell to 16th it would be a project.

Records are meaningless when it comes to games won. Cam got 6 wins in his rookie season. RGIII actually regressed this year. The point is, they were drafted alot higher than EJ and haven't done much yet. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of making a conclusion that EJ is a scrub.

[Ed]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/107415/2014-draft-order-week-15

11th ?
They have it backwards. They're listing the teams with the higher SOS first. It should be the reverse. Right now the Bills are 9th since their SOS is weaker than the Titans or Giants.

[Skooby]

They have it backwards. They're listing the teams with the higher SOS first. It should be the reverse. Right now the Bills are 9th since their SOS is weaker than the Titans or Giants.

Hmmm... that seems to be the case .

[trapezeus]

Well, you will be proven WRONG. The Bills will draft well again this year. I expect them to make the playoffs next year.

And to cite two LOW round picks Wang & Carder as guys that did not make the roster just goes to show how WEAK your argument is.

To say it is like it was 14 years ago is childish. Because that is just not the case as I have already pointed out to you.

And your retort is Wang & Carder LOL.

WAng and carder are 4th round picks. you need to hit on those fairly regularly so that you have depth. carder was let go because he didn't fit the system. Who the F drafts a guy who doesn't fit their current system.

And you say this every year, "you'll be proven wrong when the glory years return." They won't return with this front office. They are gone forever. The bills don't care. if they did, they would have kept levitre and let manuel get a chance to develop. I get that you can't keep everyone, but they had a foundation of a good line and they broke it up to save cash today. And they are going to do it again. And you'll be the guy saying, "they drafted this diamond in the rough in the 6th round....brady, remember HIM?" and that guy will suck like everyone else they've ever brought in here the last 15 years.

But if you like closing your eyes and praying for miracles, but all means do. The bills have put it on the wall that they don't care about their fans. and the fans who can watch 15 years of this and still make apologies for them are getting exactly what they deserve.

[trapezeus]

the problem with EJ at this point is that he excels against weak teams. in some ways you can look at that first preseason game as a summation of who is his. When a defense of starters came out in Indy, he was tentative and inaccurate. Once they took off the field and he had time, he warmed up and they looked ok.

Against a brutally beaten up bad jags team, he was good. Great? not really. pretty pedestrian numbers, but he got the job done. Pitts, Tampa, decent defenses, he's been brutal. he hasn't even been in the game. And there has been no progress there. So, if you want my two cents, the window on him actually becoming something is closing. unless he comes out and shows he belongs in the next two games against rivals and can be a spoiler, he's really just a good kid who's never going to have the accuracy to be a difference maker. and the injuries aren't helping his case.

[Skooby]

the problem with EJ at this point is that he excels against weak teams. in some ways you can look at that first preseason game as a summation of who is his. When a defense of starters came out in Indy, he was tentative and inaccurate. Once they took off the field and he had time, he warmed up and they looked ok.

Against a brutally beaten up bad jags team, he was good. Great? not really. pretty pedestrian numbers, but he got the job done. Pitts, Tampa, decent defenses, he's been brutal. he hasn't even been in the game. And there has been no progress there. So, if you want my two cents, the window on him actually becoming something is closing. unless he comes out and shows he belongs in the next two games against rivals and can be a spoiler, he's really just a good kid who's never going to have the accuracy to be a difference maker. and the injuries aren't helping his case.

Please keep waking the folks up here, saying it's all getting better is a drug induced dream.

[mysticsoto]

WAng and carder are 4th round picks. you need to hit on those fairly regularly so that you have depth. carder was let go because he didn't fit the system. Who the F drafts a guy who doesn't fit their current system.

And you say this every year, "you'll be proven wrong when the glory years return." They won't return with this front office. They are gone forever. The bills don't care. if they did, they would have kept levitre and let manuel get a chance to develop. I get that you can't keep everyone, but they had a foundation of a good line and they broke it up to save cash today. And they are going to do it again. And you'll be the guy saying, "they drafted this diamond in the rough in the 6th round....brady, remember HIM?" and that guy will suck like everyone else they've ever brought in here the last 15 years.

But if you like closing your eyes and praying for miracles, but all means do. The bills have put it on the wall that they don't care about their fans. and the fans who can watch 15 years of this and still make apologies for them are getting exactly what they deserve.

So in less than 1 season you are capable of determining if a QB is going to be good or not? I can't believe NFL team owners and GMs are not banging down your door...

[Mr. Pink]

So in less than 1 season you are capable of determining if a QB is going to be good or not? I can't believe NFL team owners and GMs are not banging down your door...

I love this argument. Because we're fans we cannot possibly know anything about how a player performs or doesn't perform on the field. It's just as obvious now that Manuel is a bum that it was that JP Losman was a bum during their first NFL seasons.

People go "oh EJ was a project" well guess what? You don't take projects in the first round. Drafting Tuel in the 7th round would have been a project. When you draft a guy in the first round he's supposed to be NFL competent, something EJ clearly is not.

[Skooby]

So in less than 1 season you are capable of determining if a QB is going to be good or not? I can't believe NFL team owners and GMs are not banging down your door...

I can watch a guys feet & see a stumbling fool, that's supposed to be fixed by late in the season. If his knee sprain has been ongoing, then that might explain some of it.

[Skooby]

I love this argument. Because we're fans we cannot possibly know anything about how a player performs or doesn't perform on the field. It's just as obvious now that Manuel is a bum that it was that JP Losman was a bum during their first NFL seasons.

People go "oh EJ was a project" well guess what? You don't take projects in the first round. Drafting Tuel in the 7th round would have been a project. When you draft a guy in the first round he's supposed to be NFL competent, something EJ clearly is not.

Even mildly competent would be acceptable .

[better days]

WAng and carder are 4th round picks. you need to hit on those fairly regularly so that you have depth. carder was let go because he didn't fit the system. Who the F drafts a guy who doesn't fit their current system.

And you say this every year, "you'll be proven wrong when the glory years return." They won't return with this front office. They are gone forever. The bills don't care. if they did, they would have kept levitre and let manuel get a chance to develop. I get that you can't keep everyone, but they had a foundation of a good line and they broke it up to save cash today. And they are going to do it again. And you'll be the guy saying, "they drafted this diamond in the rough in the 6th round....brady, remember HIM?" and that guy will suck like everyone else they've ever brought in here the last 15 years.

But if you like closing your eyes and praying for miracles, but all means do. The bills have put it on the wall that they don't care about their fans. and the fans who can watch 15 years of this and still make apologies for them are getting exactly what they deserve.

TOTAL BS. NO team hits on 4th rnd picks regularly.

To hit on a 4th rnd pick even as a role player is gravy on the potatoes.

And if you feel like you posted in that post, feel free to stop watching & rooting for the Bills.

BUT NOT ME. I will keep watching & rooting for the Bills myself. I expect to see the Bills turn it around & I expect that to happen soon.

[X-Era]

I love this argument. Because we're fans we cannot possibly know anything about how a player performs or doesn't perform on the field. It's just as obvious now that Manuel is a bum that it was that JP Losman was a bum during their first NFL seasons.

People go "oh EJ was a project" well guess what? You don't take projects in the first round. Drafting Tuel in the 7th round would have been a project. When you draft a guy in the first round he's supposed to be NFL competent, something EJ clearly is not.So, I'm not defending EJ.

But I will challenge the all or nothing crowd.

Define competent. If it's so clear please define that for me.

What, specifically, and tangibly, does EJ have to do to be considered competent in your eyes?

[trapezeus]

TOTAL BS. NO team hits on 4th rnd picks regularly.

To hit on a 4th rnd pick even as a role player is gravy on the potatoes.

And if you feel like you posted in that post, feel free to stop watching & rooting for the Bills.

BUT NOT ME. I will keep watching & rooting for the Bills myself. I expect to see the Bills turn it around & I expect that to happen soon.

few teams draft them and then cut them within the first camp.

[trapezeus]

i'm not saying that i know more than a GM...more than a Buffalo brandon run front office, i think we all are better than that. but a normally run team, no.

What i am saying is that theQB's who struggle in year 1, usually show some level of progression towards the end of the season. EJ still has accuracy issues. He still struggles against good teams.

only bills fans can say, "hey, what do you expect? for him to beat good teams?" and then those people actually expect us to be a good team. he will need to beat good teams. and being mildly competent would be a great start.

I can't see the future, but i've seen enough that i think he will benefit from competition. should they go reach for another guy in round 1? no... if there is a guy who is highly rated and available at a slot we are drafting, he should be taken. it would be a real shame like when the bills passed cutler because we had JP. When we passed Rodgers because we have JP. He might have been pushed with better guys behind him. and i think EJ needs that too.

[better days]

few teams draft them and then cut them within the first camp.

I would bet more 4th rnd picks are cut than made starters on a team the first season.

And the Bills do have a 4th rnd pick from the last draft still on the team & making plays on special teams.

[better days]

i'm not saying that i know more than a GM...more than a Buffalo brandon run front office, i think we all are better than that. but a normally run team, no.

What i am saying is that theQB's who struggle in year 1, usually show some level of progression towards the end of the season. EJ still has accuracy issues. He still struggles against good teams.

only bills fans can say, "hey, what do you expect? for him to beat good teams?" and then those people actually expect us to be a good team. he will need to beat good teams. and being mildly competent would be a great start.

I can't see the future, but i've seen enough that i think he will benefit from competition. should they go reach for another guy in round 1? no... if there is a guy who is highly rated and available at a slot we are drafting, he should be taken. it would be a real shame like when the bills passed cutler because we had JP. When we passed Rodgers because we have JP. He might have been pushed with better guys behind him. and i think EJ needs that too.

EJ was injured through most of TC. Then he was injured again during the season missing 4 games. Any objective person would take that into account in regards to his development.

And I don't see any QB in the next draft that I think is a sure fire franchise QB either.

[Historian]

Famous Fourths:

Terrance McGee
Jamie Nails
Ken Irvin
Russell Copeland
Leon Seals
Andre Reed
Jeff Nixon
Lucious Sanford
Donnie Walker
Jeff Yates
Edgar Chandler
Gary Bugenhagen -Thurm's Uncle!!!!!!!
Bobby Burnett
Butch Byrd
Stew Barber

[jamze132]

I would like to see them win out and make 7-9...draft be damned.

Couldn't agree more. Winning out against the Phish and Cheats would go a long way with our youngsters during the offseason.

[trapezeus]

ej being hurt 3 times in a season is another reason to look actively at upgrading the position if an opportunity arises during the draft.

and i'm saying, under buddy nix, he brought in 4th round talents who were cut that year before a single snap. that is not common and it happened 2x in his 4 years. that's outrageous. and we didn't fire buddy. we waited for him to retire.

the point isn't about do i want this team to succeed or not. of course i do. but nothing is changing. it's all cosmetic. and the only way they'll ever be decent is if there is some miracle. and that miracle will manifest itself as a playoff appearance. and nothing will come of it. maybe not even a win. you know this deep down inside, betterdays.

watch them let byrd go, pick a secondary player early to make up for it. tell you that the draft is how a team is built and that's why the FA front was so quite. they hype of the 5-7 round picks will be through the roof. "we really stole this guy". and then they'll trot out a team who care barely compete at the elite skill positions. The following year, they'll take a FA guy to show people we are serious because its make it or break it time. and they'll keep passing on upgrading because they have "their guys".

it's an endless cycle. and that's really how they like it. to get a championship level team (or even one that isn't an embarassment) would take some level of restructuring that would put all the know-nothings at risk. and they aren't willing to lose that.

[WagonCircler]

the point isn't about do i want this team to succeed or not. of course i do. but nothing is changing. it's all cosmetic.

The illusion of progress.

It's like the shots are being called by a marketing guy, isn't it?

[Ginger Vitis]

Famous Fourths:




The bills took a TE 3 times in the 4th Round in the last 10 years (Tim Euhus..Derek Fine..Shawn Nelson). Those 3 players had 53 catches total for there careers. And Scott Chandler will probably end up with 53 catches this year alone

[WagonCircler]

The bills took a TE 3 times in the 4th Round in the last 10 years (Tim Euhus..Derek Fine..Shawn Nelson). Those 3 players had 53 catches total for there careers. And Scott Chandler will probably end up with 53 catches this year alone

And we drafted Terrell Troup instead of Rob Gronkowski.

[better days]

Famous Fourths:

Terrance McGee
Jamie Nails
Ken Irvin
Russell Copeland
Leon Seals
Andre Reed
Jeff Nixon
Lucious Sanford
Donnie Walker
Jeff Yates
Edgar Chandler
Gary Bugenhagen -Thurm's Uncle!!!!!!!
Bobby Burnett
Butch Byrd
Stew Barber

A DUBIOUS list at best.
Only a handful of truly GOOD players.
And it is a SMALL list considering the number of years it covers.

[Mike]

Records are meaningless when it comes to games won. Cam got 6 wins in his rookie season. RGIII actually regressed this year. The point is, they were drafted alot higher than EJ and haven't done much yet. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of making a conclusion that EJ is a scrub.

EJ is a scrub because he has a hard time hitting a 5 yard out. (Something a pop warner QB could do.)

[Mike]

So in less than 1 season you are capable of determining if a QB is going to be good or not? I can't believe NFL team owners and GMs are not banging down your door...

99% of the time you do not need to give a player a season to determine if they are going to be good or not. That's why most QBs never get drafted. It's obvious from their college that they don't deserve a chance!

In a very weak QB class EJ was considered outside of top 5 QBs by many experts. His draft projection was 3rd per draft and after the draft chances are he would have been available on second day! This clearly illustrates that he does Not deserve a whole season in the same way a Payton Manning deserved a whole season. Why, you ask? Because in college Manning showed more, he's better fundamentals, elite understanding of defenses, great accuracy, winner, great feel for the game, etc... elements EJ is clearly missing.

We've seen enough! If you can't throw a 5 yard out as a rookie you won't ever become a Great QB!

[coastal]

And we drafted Terrell Troup instead of Rob Gronkowski.
How about Donte ****ner instead of Haloti Ngata and John McCargo instead of Nick Mangold?

and I know this doesn't have to do with TEs, but when you stop and think about the missed picks... year after year.

[WagonCircler]

How about Donte ****ner instead of Haloti Ngata and John McCargo instead of Nick Mangold?

and I know this doesn't have to do with TEs, but when you stop and think about the missed picks... year after year.

John McCargo. I thought I had successfully deleted him from my memory, like Aaron Maybin.

[Skooby]

John McCargo. I thought I had successfully deleted him from my memory, like Aaron Maybin.

It's hard to hide that pain.