****ing McKelvin

[OpIv37]

Before this season, he was a good returner but never lived up to the hype as a CB.

This year, he's been very good at corner but now he can barely even catch a punt without bobbling it, and when he does catch it he doesn't do anything with it.

Do we have anyone else who can return punts, or at least catch punts Chris Watson style?

[wmoz11]

I'll take the role reversal all day. Leonhard is a capable punt catcher, if needed. I will say, though, that this has been one of the worst punt-return performances I've ever seen. Not attempting to catch punts he should, flat out dropping them, etc.

[justasportsfan]

I'm telling you, the ST coach sucks.

[casdhf]

I'd rather have him catch pics than punts

[YardRat]

Another great game by Leodis. So glad we re-signed him.

Oh, wait...Ralph is cheap and doesn't do **** like that.

[Rockstar]

I'm telling you, the ST coach sucks.

This is a fact I was tweeting with Paul Hamilton a few weeks back about it. Out ST coach is a buddy of Marrone's from back in the day, Hamilton pointed out how Danny Crossmans special teams units sucked when h was in Detroit also. Fire this guy.

[WagonCircler]

Moorman has got to go, too.

I'm glad he was able to come back and finish out the year, but, good Lord.

I think he had a 15 yard punt today.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, ST as a whole is a mess. As much as I like Moorman and appreciate that he was the only consistently good player during a stretch of god-awful football by this team, time has caught up with him and he needs to go.

And I hope we find a returner because McKelvin sucks at it all of a sudden, and if he's going to keep playing well at CB, I'd rather not risk him on punts anyway.

[OpIv37]

Another great game by Leodis. So glad we re-signed him.

Oh, wait...Ralph is cheap and doesn't do **** like that.

Even a blind fly lands on **** sometimes.

One good re-signing doesn't make up for years of cheapness. Hell it doesn't even make up for letting Levitre walk so he could shove that extra cap money in his mattress.

[sudzy]

How many kick returners has this team drafted over years? Do we really need him returning kicks? How many good CBs do we have? Less then kick returners.

[YardRat]

Even a blind fly lands on **** sometimes.

One good re-signing doesn't make up for years of cheapness. Hell it doesn't even make up for letting Levitre walk so he could shove that extra cap money in his mattress.

Yes, because Leodis is the only player the team has re-signed and not let walk...ever.

Levitre, once again, wasn't worth the money he was looking for, and the fact that the difference between last year's offense and this year's is negligible is proof. Only a dumbass would give him that kind of money.

Don't worry, you'll be able to whine some more this off-season when they let another over-hyped, self-inflated value-wussie walk because he's looking to make bank without earning it.

[jimmifli]

Levitre, once again, wasn't worth the money he was looking for, and the fact that the difference between last year's offense and this year's is negligible is proof.

Wow, that's some high quality thinking. The reason they never get better is because while they patch one hole they create another by not resigning their best players. The fact that the offense didn't get better despite upgrades at other positions is actually proof that he was worth the money.

[Skooby]

Getting rid of our best players because of money either means that we're not locking them down early enough or not willing to pay the amount necessary to retain them after they get so good, either way the loss of talent will always set you back.

[Typ0]

"he's not a punt returner -- he's a punt catcher". I get a good chuckle out of this every time i hear it. And in this thread people are calling for a punt catcher. That's even funnier.

[DynaPaul]

Levitre for 8 million wasn't worth it.

[Fixxxer]

I'm telling you, the ST coach sucks.

I notice that he has Marrone's hear during the game, make him HC consultant but give the ST job to someone who, at least, have clue. Their gunners were on McKelvin on every single punt and our coverage sucks more often than not.

[YardRat]

Wow, that's some high quality thinking. The reason they never get better is because while they patch one hole they create another by not resigning their best players. The fact that the offense didn't get better despite upgrades at other positions is actually proof that he was worth the money.

Why, thank you. Perhaps if you attempted some 'quality thinking', you might realize...

...the offensive line is the same, save for Levitre's replacement(s).
...the TE's are the same.
...the RB's are the same.
...a rookie draft pick, a rookie UDFA, and another team's third-stringer with exactly one start prior to this season and acquired via trade have split starts all season, and the contention that specific to this season to date, the position was actually upgraded, is questionable at best.
...WR? True, Woods appears to be an upgrade, but that's about it...and he's a rookie also. All of the other new guys have had about as much impact, or less, than the old crew.

11 positions, 1 rookie WR and the other 10 positions the exact same or a wash, doesn't exactly qualify for as many upgrades as you appear to believe.

You would think by adding a 'stud' LG, CJ2k wouldn't be 400 yards behind last season's production, or his YPC wouldn't be down by almost a full yard (.8 to be exact).

[streetkings01]

Titans are 15th in rushing this year and 21st in 2012. Bills are 2nd in rushing this year and 6th last year. Don't know what those stats tell you when looking at Levitre impact just thought it was interesting.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Titans are 15th in rushing this year and 21st in 2012. Bills are 2nd in rushing this year and 6th last year. Don't know what those stats tell you when looking at Levitre impact just thought it was interesting.

It tells you that we have the most rushing attempts in the NFL by virtue of running a high-speed college offense that is trying to protect three young QBs. If you look at anything but raw yardage, we are pretty solidly in the middle of the pack.

As for the rest of our offense, I don't know how you can look at it and not see that we took a large step back. We are worse in virtually every per-play stat (2012 - 6.0 Y/Pass attempt, 5.0 Y/rush. 2013 - 5.2 Y/pass, 4.2 Y/rush), taking more sacks (30 vs 43 with a game to go), fewer first downs (300 vs. 264), etc. It's largely been compensated for by the massive improvement in our defense, which is on pace to give up 40-50 fewer points and a huge 14 point swing in turnover differential.

Now, whether you want to blame those offensive struggles on our QB situation, the new systems, injuries, CJ's regression, or Levitre is a different argument. But you can't seriously argue that our offense is the same as it was last year.

[DraftBoy]

Even a blind fly lands on **** sometimes.

One good re-signing doesn't make up for years of cheapness. Hell it doesn't even make up for letting Levitre walk so he could shove that extra cap money in his mattress.

Are we going to talk about them extending Wood early, or do you want to ignore that move?

[DraftBoy]

Wow, that's some high quality thinking. The reason they never get better is because while they patch one hole they create another by not resigning their best players. The fact that the offense didn't get better despite upgrades at other positions is actually proof that he was worth the money.

What exactly is the causality link there? There are a host of reasons they may not have gotten better that completely exclude Levitre. You're willingness to throw them out with the bathwater makes little sense.

Also what positions got upgraded exactly? WR2? This offense returned 8 starters.

[DraftBoy]

Crossman is a nightmare, he should be fired in exactly one week.

[Historian]

I think Leodis has played extremely well.

We are a risk-taking defense, and he is going to give up plays from time to time, they all do.

As far as Andy goes, yes, they could not afford to resign him, ala Will Wolford.

I just wish they had locked down his backup....whoever the hell he was, I forget.

[YardRat]

I think Leodis has played extremely well.

We are a risk-taking defense, and he is going to give up plays from time to time, they all do.

As far as Andy goes, yes, they could not afford to resign him, ala Will Wolford.

I just wish they had locked down his backup....whoever the hell he was, I forget.

Rhinehart.

I wish they would have signed him also.

[streetkings01]

It tells you that we have the most rushing attempts in the NFL by virtue of running a high-speed college offense that is trying to protect three young QBs. If you look at anything but raw yardage, we are pretty solidly in the middle of the pack.

As for the rest of our offense, I don't know how you can look at it and not see that we took a large step back. We are worse in virtually every per-play stat (2012 - 6.0 Y/Pass attempt, 5.0 Y/rush. 2013 - 5.2 Y/pass, 4.2 Y/rush), taking more sacks (30 vs 43 with a game to go), fewer first downs (300 vs. 264), etc. It's largely been compensated for by the massive improvement in our defense, which is on pace to give up 40-50 fewer points and a huge 14 point swing in turnover differential.

Now, whether you want to blame those offensive struggles on our QB situation, the new systems, injuries, CJ's regression, or Levitre is a different argument. But you can't seriously argue that our offense is the same as it was last year.Our offense took a step back because we started the season with 3 QBs with only 1 NFL start between them. We played last year with a vet QB in Fitz in his 3rd year of Gailey's system.

[trapezeus]

i'm not a huge leodis fan, but you have to think being a starting (reliable) db gets you less snaps on the ST team. So the less he fields in a practice because he's practicing as a DB, the drop off may occur in his ability to return kicks.

i also think it's strange to have a guy sprinting with the 2nd best WR for a handful of plays and ask him to go back there and return the kicks and expect him to be as efficient when he came off the bench.

i hvae to think we have another guy who can do the job who isn't winded from playing.

[gebobs]

The thing that pisses me off most after all the bobbles by McFumbles (leads the league this year), is all the times he lets a punt drop in front of him only to have it bounce 20 yards further.

[RedEyE]

There really is no reason to have Leodis fielding punts. There are plenty of guys on the roster that can do it.

But he will maintain duties during the last game of the season and he had better ****ing hang onto that **** during the Patriots game. I don't think I could stand a repeat of that Monday night game against the Pats where the Bills just needed to kill clock and he dropped that ****.

[justasportsfan]

i'm not a huge leodis fan, but you have to think being a starting (reliable) db gets you less snaps on the ST team. So the less he fields in a practice because he's practicing as a DB, the drop off may occur in his ability to return kicks.

this never bothered him before. No matter who is back there ,whether it's Goodwin or Mckelvin, we just can't get anything done. It's coaching.

[OpIv37]

this never bothered him before. No matter who is back there ,whether it's Goodwin or Mckelvin, we just can't get anything done. It's coaching.

Coaches don't bobble balls.


I mean, I agree that the S/T coaching has been bad, but it doesn't matter what the coaches say if McKelvin can't field the ball cleanly or Moorman shanks a 13 yard punt off the side of his foot.

[Night Train]

The thing that pisses me off most after all the bobbles by McFumbles (leads the league this year), is all the times he lets a punt drop in front of him only to have it bounce 20 yards further.

This.

I'd rather have Leonard back there just securing the ball and running it out of bounds after 5 yards. He is uber confident in his hands and will try and field all punts. Just don't give up the field position by letting it bounce.

[The Jokeman]

Crossman is a nightmare, he should be fired in exactly one week.

Why? we still won 6 games despite having a crappy special teams meanwhile in other seasons we had stellar special teams and still won 6 games. This season should wake up most Bills' fans eyes and see why Steve Tasker doesn't belong in the NFL HOF as ST in the grand scheme of things in most cases doesn't mean much to anything. Back to the Leodis discussion. I give him credit he's played well this year but I still see him struggling with his balls skills as a CB. As I've stated it in other threads he's never really had big issues covering guys downfield just making sure they don't catch it once the balls in the air. I'll give him a passing grade because to me the D is definitely better this season and now that we have almost the starting D healthy we're starting to see how well they can be as a unit. Hopefully we keep it intact (see keep Byrd) this offseason.

[DraftBoy]

Coaches don't bobble balls.


I mean, I agree that the S/T coaching has been bad, but it doesn't matter what the coaches say if McKelvin can't field the ball cleanly or Moorman shanks a 13 yard punt off the side of his foot.

That's true, but if you're unsure of the blocking scheme in front of you and worried about getting crushed then that says a lot about the coaching. He's never been the aggressive balls to the wall returner who fields the short punts no matter what. But he's never been a ball bobbler. He's taking his eyes off of it for a reason, so what is that reason? Coaching? Trying to hard to make a play?

We just don't know.

[Rockstar]

Coaches don't bobble balls.


I mean, I agree that the S/T coaching has been bad, but it doesn't matter what the coaches say if McKelvin can't field the ball cleanly or Moorman shanks a 13 yard punt off the side of his foot.

I slightly disagree with this whole thought. Coaching IS why there is horrible blocking schemes and when you are a guy who has had success in the past you are trying to do anything you can to re-create the magic. We have all watched the blocking. It's God awful, so Leodis is looking off the ball and trying to run before he secures it due to the horrible schemes and blocking in front of him. I respect Jim Lenard but he simply looks to catch the ball and secure it. Yes that's smart but I want a playmaker.
The coaching sucks!!

- - - Updated - - -

[Beebe]

This is a fact I was tweeting with Paul Hamilton a few weeks back about it. Out ST coach is a buddy of Marrone's from back in the day, Hamilton pointed out how Danny Crossmans special teams units sucked when h was in Detroit also. Fire this guy.

And I hate that all year he only has 1 guy on the gunners instead of 2 because when Mckelvin gets the ball there's already 2 guys there.

[OpIv37]

I slightly disagree with this whole thought. Coaching IS why there is horrible blocking schemes and when you are a guy who has had success in the past you are trying to do anything you can to re-create the magic. We have all watched the blocking. It's God awful, so Leodis is looking off the ball and trying to run before he secures it due to the horrible schemes and blocking in front of him. I respect Jim Lenard but he simply looks to catch the ball and secure it. Yes that's smart but I want a playmaker.
The coaching sucks!!

- - - Updated - - -

Well we aren't going to fix the scheme in a week before the Pats game, so I say let Leonard catch it and secure it this week and fix the schemes the off season.

[justasportsfan]

Coaches don't bobble balls.


I mean, I agree that the S/T coaching has been bad, but it doesn't matter what the coaches say if McKelvin can't field the ball cleanly or Moorman shanks a 13 yard punt off the side of his foot.

I agree but if he's doing something he wasn't known to do before, then you have to wonder if the coaching has the players regressing.

Leodis is a better cb than he's ever been. Most likely because of coaching thats had a good track record.
Leodis is playing like crap as a ST player wherein the coaching has a crappy track record.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

this never bothered him before. No matter who is back there ,whether it's Goodwin or Mckelvin, we just can't get anything done. It's coaching.

It's possible he's fatigued. He's been playing a much larger role in the defense this year then he has in a while, and it's late in the season. Even Devin Hester saw his production drop when they tried to make him a full time starter.

[stuckincincy]

It's possible he's fatigued. He's been playing a much larger role in the defense this year then he has in a while, and it's late in the season. Even Devin Hester saw his production drop when they tried to make him a full time starter.

Good point.

[DraftBoy]

It's possible he's fatigued. He's been playing a much larger role in the defense this year then he has in a while, and it's late in the season. Even Devin Hester saw his production drop when they tried to make him a full time starter.

Good point.

x2

[coastal]

I'm a fan of McMarbles.

He's a good football player.