What do you think about Spiller's future in Buffalo?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Can you say Spiller is your #1 RB?

I think we are finding out what Saints were finding out about Reggie Bush. Marrone was in New Olean then. I think he should see the light.

To me, Spiller is a change pace guy, not THE guy you count on on any downs. I'd not be surprised if he's traded this off-season if the right deal presents itself.

[RedEyE]

Jackson makes Spiller better in my opinion. The change-up between the two is difficult to contend. While I feel like he seems to be getting "it", I also feel like he should have had it quite a long time ago. I question his downfield toughness. Seems to run out of bounds rather than driving for that extra yard. But man, his explosiveness is insurmountable. I love watching him burn downfield. Loved him in Gaileys passing offense.

[coastal]

He's been a change of pace guy for the majority of the year.

[DBrown77]

I think they pick up his 5th year option. He has had a down year, but is too explosive of a player.

[Mr. Pink]

He needs to be used in a Darren Sproles, Reggie Bush type of role.

He's not a guy who can be expected to carry the ball 20+ times a game.

[Skooby]

He's been playing hurt & we drafted him real early.

[Bangarang]

I don't think Spiller is the kind of RB Marrone prefers honestly.

[BillsImpossible]

He's too small and small running backs have a very short shelf life in the NFL.

If this was 1983, he'd be an elite running back. He's not big enough to take 16 weeks of ground and pound.

[imbondz]

love Spiller even tho he had a somewhat down year. Every time he touches the ball I think he could break through, and I love the extra yards he gets on screens/catches. I'd be bummed if we let him go. he's definitely a piece of the rebuilding

[better days]

Well, I would like to see Fred & CJ split the carries for the next 3 or 4 years as they have been.

Fred shows no sign of slowing down & Ej has been injured this year & should bounce back when healthy.

[jimmifli]

It's a case of 1+1=3 They both make each other better.

Honestly as good as Fred is (I've been among his biggest supporters here), I think his roll would be easier to fill. College is full of big productive backs that are "too slow" for the NFL. Spending a midround pick on a guy that knows how to block, catch and run inside (but can't break a long run or turn the corner) would be a good use of a draft pick. Not that anyone could be Fred, but there are a lot of RBs that can be successful splitting time with CJ.

[Mace]

I don't particularly see we've ever figured out how to use Spiller. Someone will.

It's not real hard to find running backs though either.

I'm pretty apathetic about him atm. His futile bounces outside get on my last nerve, and I don't understand why a fast guy can't sprint through a hole like the slower guy can, because you also know it's not like the slower guy isn't trying to tell him how to do it. He just seems real determined to either run sideways on most plays or run up a linemans back instead of at what might be a hole.

They don't split him out wide enough with that speed, I never understand what seems so complex about linebacker mismatches if you throw enough fast people out wide and have them running in different directions though either.

I'm still not sure after this time what to make of Spiller or who to blame for his dazzling ability to only dazzle once in a rare while, but I think some of it has to be on him too.

If they have money and a clue, take the option, if not, get another running back.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He's a committee back, and I'm not even convinced he should be the lead back in that committee. If we took him in the third or fourth round, I think we'd be golden but as a Top 10 pick I think he's going to demand too much for a second deal.

And he makes a lot of stupid mistakes for a fourth year back. Running out of bounds right before the half is an inexcusable mental lapse.

[ICRockets]

We won today because of our running game. But hey, let's blow it all up because **** it, that's why.

I feel like I get stupider reading half these piece of **** threads in this forum.

[WagonCircler]

I think the injury this year could serve as a great excuse for this season in the context of a trade.

Fred deserves to be the feature back. He's just better than CJ.

I'd love to see the Bills turn CJ into a high draft pick and grab a Linebacker or a big WR.... or a Quarterback.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

I really feel bad for Spiller they never seem to get him the ball like Chan did last year that and the injury led to a down year. He'll bounce back next season no doubt.

[kishoph]

We won today because of our running game. But hey, let's blow it all up because **** it, that's why.

I feel like I get stupider reading half these piece of **** threads in this forum.

It's not broke, so let's try and fix it, makes no sense. Spiller is having an "off year" but why ? Could it be injuries, or the line's play, or is he being misused, or maybe since Freddy is having such a productive year, he is over shadowing Spiller (CJ does have the higher ypc). The ankle was obviously a problem this year, why wasn't he involved in the passing game more, last season he had 43 receptions, this year only 28 and the line has been one of the teams biggest weakness this season. Getting rid of Spiller would be stupid, as good has Freddy has played, he is 32, a RB in the NFL rarely is productive at that age and in a lot of cases the dropoff comes sudden, getting rid of CJ and making Freddy the "feature back" would be idiotic to say the least. We have one of the best, if not the best RB tandems in the league, play Freddy until he's no longer producing, then worry about the situation. Getting rid of either of them at this time, should not even be thought of as an option right now.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills will be drafting RB this year because A) Fred is old and B) CJ is not an every down back.

[Historian]

I think if he and Manuel can stay healthy, they can both be a force in this league, but I also think you need to put them in situations that focus on their strengths.

I despise seeing him run into the line. It simply is not his game.

He's a breakaway back who needs to be run to the outside, ala Thurman, Cribbs, and OJ.

[pmoon6]

C.J. Spiller would benefit greatly if teams respected our passing attack. I don't think you trade Spiller unless you can get a great deal. He is a great compliment to Freddie and the two pronged attack has almost 1700 yards rushing. Considering most defenses play run first against us, that's pretty good. Also, Fred isn't getting any younger, so you would have to draft a RB in the next couple years.

BTW, I know it's a different game, but Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders were similar in size. Of course, Barry had moves that only come along once every 50 years and Thurman was a great receiver along with the nuanced cuts that allowed him to exploit a small crease and make yardage.

As far as what Historian said, I agree. Tony Dorsett was put in the same position his rookie year where he had a designated hole where the play was designed to go, then Landry changed his approach and cut TD loose to use his vision and run to what he sees. Not really mentioned as one of the great backs of all time, but Dorsett certainly belongs in the conversation.

[DraftBoy]

I think he's struggling in the new concept. He wants to bounce everything outside but in doing so he's missing the cut lane that Jackson is torching teams with. I hope that with an offseason of film study and tutoring from Jackson he'll come back next year ready to run the scheme correctly. Otherwise you're looking at maybe needing two RB's sooner rather than later.

[better days]

He's too small and small running backs have a very short shelf life in the NFL.

If this was 1983, he'd be an elite running back. He's not big enough to take 16 weeks of ground and pound.

Warrick Dunn: 5'9" 187lbs 12 years in the NFL. 1997-2008

Maurice Jones-Drew: 5'7" 207lbs 8 years + in the NFL. 2006-current.

Fred Jackson: 6'1" 216lbs 8+ years in the NFL 2006 current.

CJ Spiller: 5'11" 200lbs. 2010-present

Spiller can play in this league as long as he wants.

[The King]

It's a case of 1+1=3 They both make each other better.

Honestly as good as Fred is (I've been among his biggest supporters here), I think his roll would be easier to fill. College is full of big productive backs that are "too slow" for the NFL. Spending a midround pick on a guy that knows how to block, catch and run inside (but can't break a long run or turn the corner) would be a good use of a draft pick. Not that anyone could be Fred, but there are a lot of RBs that can be successful splitting time with CJ.

I disagree. Freds heart is irreplaceable, the guy runs like a half yard will win the game. You can't find that easily.

[The King]

I think he's struggling in the new concept. He wants to bounce everything outside but in doing so he's missing the cut lane that Jackson is torching teams with. I hope that with an offseason of film study and tutoring from Jackson he'll come back next year ready to run the scheme correctly. Otherwise you're looking at maybe needing two RB's sooner rather than later.

He struggles with being patient. He doesn't trust that the hole will open up.

[better days]

I disagree. Freds heart is irreplaceable, the guy runs like a half yard will win the game. You can't find that easily.

Jags DE Jason Babin said of Fred................he's like trying to tackle a bowling ball.

[better days]

I think he's struggling in the new concept. He wants to bounce everything outside but in doing so he's missing the cut lane that Jackson is torching teams with. I hope that with an offseason of film study and tutoring from Jackson he'll come back next year ready to run the scheme correctly. Otherwise you're looking at maybe needing two RB's sooner rather than later.

I think Spiller is struggling with a sprained ankle more than anything this year.

[DraftBoy]

He struggles with being patient. He doesn't trust that the hole will open up.

I agree to an extent, but I'm not sure its just patience. This scheme doesn't open up holes in a traditional sense. The OL move a lot and in many ways its mirrors a ZBS run scheme. He's gotta see the lane and hit it to make the hole. It's not just going to be there right at the snap. That's where he is struggling and part or that is certainly patience.

- - - Updated - - -


I think Spiller is struggling with a sprained ankle more than anything this year.

I think that's an excuse more than a reality. He's clearly not 100% but a bigger concern is his struggles to find and hit the hole.

[trapezeus]

the line isn't good enough. fred even has issues getting through the non-existent holes. the line should pretty much be able to get us TD's when we are inside the 5. and we didn't 2 or 3 times on sunday. that to me says we need to massively update the line.

i hate the idea of drafting a RB, but i think we need another RB who has size. and we should be focused on getting a better line.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I don't know. When Nix drafted Spiller, I'm sure he saw a Tomlinson. But Spiller proved that he's not even close to the receiving skills, nor the balance. He has the shifty skills, shifty @high speed. Gailey finally figured out by developing various screen games using Spiller. It requires him be able to block a bit and to his credit, Spiller did improved in that area somewhat, though Jackson is far more efficient at that.
Marrone wants bigger linemen and more vertical game. It's a pound and dart game instead of the finness Gailey runs. A mobile QB takes care of the little screens and breakdowns. For Spiller to have a chance in this system, he needs to develop his vision better. I know some are calling it the patience, I would say the vision as in how he sees the play develops

[justasportsfan]

I think if he and Manuel can stay healthy, they can both be a force in this league, but I also think you need to put them in situations that focus on their strengths.
.

what would that be? EJ dinking to his runningback?

[cookie G]

I don't know. When Nix drafted Spiller, I'm sure he saw a Tomlinson. But Spiller proved that he's not even close to the receiving skills, nor the balance. He has the shifty skills, shifty @high speed. Gailey finally figured out by developing various screen games using Spiller. It requires him be able to block a bit and to his credit, Spiller did improved in that area somewhat, though Jackson is far more efficient at that.
Marrone wants bigger linemen and more vertical game. It's a pound and dart game instead of the finness Gailey runs. A mobile QB takes care of the little screens and breakdowns. For Spiller to have a chance in this system, he needs to develop his vision better. I know some are calling it the patience, I would say the vision as in how he sees the play develops

Maybe. If anything, Pettine probably needs to watch some tape of Spiller in prior years to see what worked.

All I know is I saw a RB last year that gained over 1200 in part time duty..while averaging 6.0 ypc.

If I'm am an OC, I'm looking for getting him the ball in a way that's going to make him duplicate that.

Running the read option with him and Manuel is a great example of ideology/trendiness over maximizing talents.

Manuel has actually kept the ball on a read option ...once or twice. He's a good runner escaping a pocket and in other ways..but he's not a read option QB. So when he doesn't keep the ball, which is always..the unblocked "read" defender pays him no mind...

That means Spiller gets the ball inside with an unblocked defender bearing down on him....and usually a defender who has broken free on the interior of the line joins him. That doesn't bode well for success.

You've just run a play (on a regular basis), that doesn't suit either the QB or the RB...that makes no sense to me.

People want to change him into a power inside runner.. that's the ultimate in squandering talent.

He isn't Fred Jackson, who can find a hole where none exists.

He doesn't have to be. Just put him in a position to do what he does best.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Maybe they can change something and design plays specifically for him. But it's not always the best approach to coach a team that way. What if Spiller is hurt? then you lose a big portion of the offense you designed all year.

I agree with someone in this thread that Spiller may not be the ideal running back Marrone craves, going back to his Saints days with Bush. I think he wants someone who can consistently gain positive yards pounding up the middle, but has the good blocking skills so that every so often, he can help blocking pass rushers allowing the QB to go deep to blow the top off.

Right now, neither Spiller nor Jackson is that guy. Jackson at this point of his career cannot take that many carries. Spiller can give you the occasion big runs, but not much else.

[better days]

Maybe they can change something and design plays specifically for him. But it's not always the best approach to coach a team that way. What if Spiller is hurt? then you lose a big portion of the offense you designed all year.

I agree with someone in this thread that Spiller may not be the ideal running back Marrone craves, going back to his Saints days with Bush. I think he wants someone who can consistently gain positive yards pounding up the middle, but has the good blocking skills so that every so often, he can help blocking pass rushers allowing the QB to go deep to blow the top off.

Right now, neither Spiller nor Jackson is that guy. Jackson at this point of his career cannot take that many carries. Spiller can give you the occasion big runs, but not much else.

Well, I hope to see Spiller used better than Bush was with the Saints.

They wasted his talent. He has been used much more effectively in Miami & Detroit.

[jdaltroy5]

I think Spiller is struggling with a sprained ankle more than anything this year.
I think that's the biggest thing.

He's always kind of been impatient and lost yards on certain plays, but he used to be able to rip off a huge run and make his numbers look impressive at the end of the day.

He's just not getting those big gains and long touchdowns this year and I think the fact that he can't cut on his ankle is a pretty big factor.

Sometimes the difference between an 80 yard TD and 1 yard gain is making that one guy miss in the hole.

[The Jokeman]

The Bills will be drafting RB this year because A) Fred is old and B) CJ is not an every down back.

If we do it better be Round 5 or later. Either way think it's a mistake as sure Fred's getting old and CJ can't start but as Mr. Pink eludes he's a Bush/Sproles type which pairs well with Fred Jackson. Now if want to have this discussion next offseason am all for that as CJ will be on the cusp of UFA and Freddie will be a year older but right now I like our RB tandem.

[BertSquirtgum]

Getting rid of spiller would be dumb. even though he has been somewhat stinky this year. He has been playing hurt most of the year. I can't fault him for that.

[jimmifli]

I disagree. Freds heart is irreplaceable, the guy runs like a half yard will win the game. You can't find that easily.
Fred's been a 4.5 to 5+ypc back for most of his time in Buffalo. That's not easily replaced. What's even rarer are guys with that kind of YPC that don't have elite speed. What it takes for someone like Fred to have a high average is incredible, it means he never takes a loss, never goes down on first contact and always find ways to grind out a few more inches before falling forward all while having elite vision. He's truly irreplaceable.

But, a powerback that averages 3.5-4 ypc can play a similar role grinding down defenses and sustaining drives. With a RB like that to split time with, Spiller can be a very effective "toy".

[THATHURMANATOR]

You guys are crazy. He is an explosive talent.

Why must we get rid of him?

Seems like he and Fred work very well together. Keep them both for christs sake.

[The Jokeman]

You guys are crazy. He is an explosive talent.

Why must we get rid of him?

Seems like he and Fred work very well together. Keep them both for christs sake.

After all these years have you not learned most Bills fans are like the villagers in the story of Frankenstein?

[Night Train]

I don't see the need to remove depth. Freddie is still the horse but obviously at his age has 1-2 years left. The next main guy could be drafted this year somewhere.

Spiller is still a good change of pace guy with his speed and his next contract will not be large. We all know he isn't built for a 25 carry weekly workload but I still like having him for the big plays he can make.

[EDS]

He's too small and small running backs have a very short shelf life in the NFL.

If this was 1983, he'd be an elite running back. He's not big enough to take 16 weeks of ground and pound.

Isn't he the same size as Jamaal Charles and Leshon McCoy, the NFL's two leading rushers?

[Bill Cody]

It's all part of the master plan. We're moving him for a 4th and drafting RB in the first.

[EDS]

It's all part of the master plan. We're moving him for a 4th and drafting RB in the first.

I am deeply sadened by this post because it is so completely true and and in many ways a symbol of the team's longstanding failure.

[cookie G]

Maybe they can change something and design plays specifically for him. But it's not always the best approach to coach a team that way. What if Spiller is hurt? then you lose a big portion of the offense you designed all year.

I don't quite understand that. I mean..if you have an athletic tight end, a Graham or a Vernon Davis...you don't design plays for them to go deep because if they get hurt, your remaining TE's can't duplicate the effort?




I agree with someone in this thread that Spiller may not be the ideal running back Marrone craves, going back to his Saints days with Bush. I think he wants someone who can consistently gain positive yards pounding up the middle, but has the good blocking skills so that every so often, he can help blocking pass rushers allowing the QB to go deep to blow the top off.

Right now, neither Spiller nor Jackson is that guy. Jackson at this point of his career cannot take that many carries. Spiller can give you the occasion big runs, but not much else.

If he's trying to run the Saints offense, it looks nothing like it. Though they do use bigger backs by committee...they don't run them out of the read option. They run up the middle, but when they run wide (and they do far more than the Bills), they get OL out in front of them. They run far more screens and draws and set them up far better.

More importantly, their vertical passing game is far beyond what Buffalo has been trying to do. If anything, it is a power running game followed by a dink-dunk, with an occasional deep pass. NO is continuously looking for an intermediate to deep pass. And none of that has anything to do with Spiller.

Lastly, as soon as the Saints dumped Bush, they went out and got Darren Sproles..because they knew how important a guy like that is to their offense. Send receivers deep, draw off secondary(and it works because they throw deep so often) ...quick pass to the outside to Sproles, screen, bubble screen or otherwise..Sproles moves his way downfield. If they are trying to run NO offense, it would be best if they didn't get rid of Spiller.

Well, I'll say, it would be stupid to get rid of Spiller.

If they are really thinking of emulating the Saints, they might consider finding the right TE and a QB who is willing to throw the ball deep.

And dump the stupid read option.

[BillsImpossible]

A lot of people blame the ankle injury for CJ's down season, but remember when he was healthy at the start of the season?

Even when healthy, he wasn't as good as Fred Jackson was/is, and that's a big problem.

This was the year that I thought Spiller would take over the number 1 running back role.

The coaches DID give him the chance but he didn't produce.

Can't say it's the O-line's fault, Fred Jackson has proven that.

Picking up the blitz and blocking has been a big liability for CJ Spiller since day 1. He can block, but he's not very good at it.

Some running backs are naturally big, thick boned, and carry their weight naturally. They don't have to lift weights every day and eat special diets to maintain their weight. CJ Spiller comes across to me as a gym rat who would weigh 175lbs if he didn't constantly eat and train to keep up his weight.

Some running backs might be the same height or weight, but their bodies are not the same.

[BillsFever21]

It depends on what kind of money he wanted if it was worth keeping him. It's easy enough finding reliable RB's let alone guys that can't carry the load. The big money is only for young guys that can carry the rock 20+ times every single game and produce. I would give him a contract for about 5-6 million a year at the very most. He's just not a workhorse worth the big money. All that depending on whether we had somebody who could also take his spot.

[YardRat]

If he's willing to accept the change-of-pace role with his next contract, and be paid relative to that, I'd be all for re-upping him and giving Marrone and Hackett another couple of years to figure out how to use him and maximize his production. If he's looking for big dollars, let him walk, because his 'lightning strikes' are too few and far between. Although some believe it to be true, still, he never will be an all-around, every-down back or a guy that is a threat every time he touches the ball. He will, however, be the guy that can turn a simple dump-off or trap into an electrifying TD a couple of times per season, for a few more years.

[Bill Cody]

Isn't he the same size as Jamaal Charles and Leshon McCoy, the NFL's two leading rushers?
Good point. Let's trade him for McCoy

[Mace]

Well, I'll say, it would be stupid to get rid of Spiller.

It can't be stupid to get rid of what you don't know how to use, it's just ignorant to be unable to use it.

Inadequately using Spiller another 3 years doesn't really go anywhere. Paying him to be unable to be used is both stupid and ignorant.

It's not really about Spiller, who will thrive someplace else no doubt. For that matter Buffalo might miss a dynamic scatback until they find another one they know how to use, which is never so terribly hard.

I'm not saying the thought, or you, are stupid or ignorant, but that the concept is futile if they don't know what to do with him and he has no significant place in their arsenal.

Let's be honest, the plan since Gailey is essentially give him the ball whenever and how often, hoping something happens because once in a while it will and yay.

Spiller aggravates me no end, but no less than the staff does. What are they doing with him, looks wicked dumb when they run him until he pukes for -1 or 2 yards a pop.

What's the point of keeping him ? You can get "once in a while" from about anyone fast enough, yearly.

So he runs sideways and into linemen, and once in a while gets to spring a play.

[X-Era]

I think you'll hear after the years over that he had a significant injury all year and played through it.

We're the 2nd ranked rushing team in the league. If we use Freddy and Spiller this way I'm fine with it. Neither will get over 1K per year but both will be very productive.

Personally I still think Spiller can be a top 5 RB in this league. But he needs room to run. The spread that Gailey ran gave him lots of room to run. This offense put us in the situation where the box was stacked quite frequently and that's just not Spillers game.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Personally I still think Spiller can be a top 5 RB in this league. But he needs room to run. The spread that Gailey ran gave him lots of room to run. This offense put us in the situation where the box was stacked quite frequently and that's just not Spillers game.

That is very true. Gailey spread them horizonally, giving Spiller an option that if breaking through the first line of defense, he has a lot of yards. That's not the offense Marrone runs, which is more about spread them vertically.

[better days]

A lot of people blame the ankle injury for CJ's down season, but remember when he was healthy at the start of the season?

Even when healthy, he wasn't as good as Fred Jackson was/is, and that's a big problem.

This was the year that I thought Spiller would take over the number 1 running back role.

The coaches DID give him the chance but he didn't produce.

Can't say it's the O-line's fault, Fred Jackson has proven that.

Picking up the blitz and blocking has been a big liability for CJ Spiller since day 1. He can block, but he's not very good at it.

Some running backs are naturally big, thick boned, and carry their weight naturally. They don't have to lift weights every day and eat special diets to maintain their weight. CJ Spiller comes across to me as a gym rat who would weigh 175lbs if he didn't constantly eat and train to keep up his weight.

Some running backs might be the same height or weight, but their bodies are not the same.

Spiller was injured in the 4th game against the Ravens.

He sucked in the first game & the third game, but the 2nd game he had over 100 yds.

Before the Fins game Sunday, he had more yds than Fred for the season.

And he has been playing on a bad ankle since that 4th game.

[DynaPaul]

I think he's too tentative and will never be 20+ carries a game every game type of back. But, with that being said, he is deadly when he does hit the home run and great in the screen game. I'd like to keep him and compliment him with a bruising type back to have a complete running game.

[justasportsfan]

It's Hackett's first year yet the bills are ranked 2nd in the league. He's still learning about CJ.

CJ thrives in the open field.

Fix the passing game to open up the run and the bills could break franchise running records.