Heads are rolling.

[The King]

Gary Kubiak a few weeks ago.

Rob Chudzinski yesteday.
Leslie Frazier, Mike Shannahan, Greg Schiano and Jim Schwartz today.

[The King]

Lovie Smith is already being rumored for the Lions job, Ken Whisenhunt for the Houston job.

[Bangarang]

Lovie Smith is already being rumored for the Lions job, Ken Whisenhunt for the Houston job.

How is it possible that the same retreads keep getting work? Is there some hidden rule where teams are only allowed to consider the same guys?

[X-Era]

I don't know if we'll see quick signings a) because of the Rooney Rule, b) because of the playoffs, and c) because teams will probably go after Cowher and Gruden.

[Skooby]

Can anybody in that group coach ST properly ?

[Novacane]

Look for a bidding war for Pettines services

[X-Era]

I have a suspicion that todays Bills presser will roll some heads too...

Marrone said on 12/27 on WGR that he doesn't need an evaluation that on the plane back from NE he's on to 2014. Implied that changes will be made and possibly right away.

We may see several assitants cut today and even a few player cuts wouldn't surprise me. I think we may also hear that the Bills have no intention to re-sign Byrd.

All just my speculation.

[ublinkwescore]

Stevie, Chandler, Dareus, Hackett, and our st coach are gone.

[Novacane]

I have a suspicion that todays Bills presser will roll some heads too...

Marrone said on 12/27 on WGR that he doesn't need an evaluation that on the plane back from NE he's on to 2014. Implied that changes will be made and possibly right away.

We may see several assitants cut today and even a few player cuts wouldn't surprise me. I think we may also hear that the Bills have no intention to re-sign Byrd.

All just my speculation.


ST coach should go but he's Marrones buddy so I doubt it. I wouldn't mind seeing Hackett go but highly unlikely. What other assistants deserve to go? Also wouldn't any announcement like that about Byrd hurt their tag and trade value?

[Historian]

"Heads vill rrrrroll!"

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4609798236211622&w=239&h=179&c=7&rs=1&qlt=80&pid=1.7

[The King]

I think Pettine cost himself a job yesterday, he'll be back. Gruden is out he re-upped with ESPN and he's in beer ads.

[X-Era]

Stevie, Chandler, Dareus, Hackett, and our st coach are gone.
Would not surprise me.

I would not be surprised to hear them announce that Dareus and Stevie are on the block.

[cookie G]

I caught a bit of the Cleveland presser...that was brutal on multiple fronts.

The questions were brutal, even quoting fans from the Browns facebook page.

I think the answers were worse. "Trust us". "We'll stand on our track record" "Other teams have won with lesser QB's".

[lightningbolt444]

Stevie, Chandler, Dareus, Hackett, and our st coach are gone.


I bet only one of the five are gone and I would not be surprised to see them all stay

[Mr. Pink]

I caught a bit of the Cleveland presser...that was brutal on multiple fronts.

The questions were brutal, even quoting fans from the Browns facebook page.

I think the answers were worse. "Trust us". "We'll stand on our track record" "Other teams have won with lesser QB's".

Eh the lesser QB point is somewhat true...the Bills won 6 games with equal or worse QBing than the Browns.

There's more to the Chud firing than just those three answers though from what I've seen, read and heard.

He didn't hold players accountable, his team packed it up in the 2nd half of many games over the last 7 in the losing streak. The Jags game, the Pats game, the Jets game, the Bengals game and then they just completely failed to show up against the Steelers. He was told by management to bench or release Greg Little or Shawn Lavuao - did neither.

It's a firing that screams that they settled on the guy even though they didn't really want him after the Chip Kelly fiasco and that he did nothing over the course of the year to win them over.

[stuckincincy]

I bet only one of the five are gone and I would not be surprised to see them all stay

Yep - the ST coach will be the scapegoat.

[DraftBoy]

Eh the lesser QB point is somewhat true...the Bills won 6 games with equal or worse QBing than the Browns.

There's more to the Chud firing than just those three answers though from what I've seen, read and heard.

He didn't hold players accountable, his team packed it up in the 2nd half of many games over the last 7 in the losing streak. The Jags game, the Pats game, the Jets game, the Bengals game and then they just completely failed to show up against the Steelers. He was told by management to bench or release Greg Little or Shawn Lavuao - did neither.

It's a firing that screams that they settled on the guy even though they didn't really want him after the Chip Kelly fiasco and that he did nothing over the course of the year to win them over.

He lost the locker room and it cost him his job. Many of his players ended up hating him and one of the Panthers reported this morning that very few were surprised he got canned less than a year on the job.

Also reportedly Norv Turner lost it in his meeting with Lombardi and Banner and he got immediately fired. Most other assistants are allowed to stay on, collect a check, and interview elsewhere.

[Mr. Pink]

He lost the locker room and it cost him his job. Many of his players ended up hating him and one of the Panthers reported this morning that very few were surprised he got canned less than a year on the job.

Also reportedly Norv Turner lost it in his meeting with Lombardi and Banner and he got immediately fired. Most other assistants are allowed to stay on, collect a check, and interview elsewhere.

The Norv Turner point doesn't surprise me. He only came to Cleveland because of Chud so he was sticking up for his guy.

What does surprise me is some of the team reaction to the firing. Chud's inability to coach cost the team victories over the final 7 games. His adjustments were non-existent in game. His coaching overall screams Dick Jauron but worse to put it into perspective for people here to understand.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I have a suspicion that todays Bills presser will roll some heads too...

Marrone said on 12/27 on WGR that he doesn't need an evaluation that on the plane back from NE he's on to 2014. Implied that changes will be made and possibly right away.

We may see several assitants cut today and even a few player cuts wouldn't surprise me. I think we may also hear that the Bills have no intention to re-sign Byrd.

All just my speculation.

He said that part about not needing an analysis about the missed tackles in the game.

[JohnnyGold]

How is it possible that the same retreads keep getting work? Is there some hidden rule where teams are only allowed to consider the same guys?


I believe both of those coaches have been to a super bowl. We have had one coach in the history of our organization that has brought a team to a Super Bowl (I think--although I'm probably wrong.) I would kill to be "dissapointed" with hiring a coach who could "only" get us to 11-5 and a divisional round loss.

Bills fans have a warped perspective of the NFL--it's not like there are a million Belliceck's walking the face of the earth... you basically just need a team that can get INTO the playoffs--thats how you win the Super Bowl. Look at the last six Super Bowl winners:

Ravens (10 wins)
Giants (9 wins)
Packers (10 wins)
Saints (13 wins)
Steelers (12 wins)
Giants (10 wins)

You don't have to be perfect to win the Super Bowl.

And ask yourself this: is winning a super bowl that important to an owner? If you win your division, you get to host a playoff game. That's basically the only added revenue you get.

So, win your division, host a playoff game, make the extra money, and basically give yourself a 50/50 shot at winning (or at least playing in) the super bowl. Those 2 retread coaches you pointed out have proven that they can do that.

The question is: why do the Bills insist on "thinking outside the box" and hiring guys with "potential". If we fired Marrone tomorrow and hired Lovie Smith on Wednesday, I would buy season tickets on Thursday.

[SpikedLemonade]

Lovie Smith would be a huge upgrade.

The time to get him was last year.

Now he is a hot name with better choices than Buffalo.

[better days]

Can anybody in that group coach ST properly ?

Well, with Schiano's firing, Dave Wannstedt is available.

I was surprised, but he did a decent job Coaching Special teams for the Bucs, MUCH better than Crossman.

[cookie G]

Eh the lesser QB point is somewhat true...the Bills won 6 games with equal or worse QBing than the Browns.

There's more to the Chud firing than just those three answers though from what I've seen, read and heard.

He didn't hold players accountable, his team packed it up in the 2nd half of many games over the last 7 in the losing streak. The Jags game, the Pats game, the Jets game, the Bengals game and then they just completely failed to show up against the Steelers. He was told by management to bench or release Greg Little or Shawn Lavuao - did neither.

It's a firing that screams that they settled on the guy even though they didn't really want him after the Chip Kelly fiasco and that he did nothing over the course of the year to win them over.

-nobody has won with Jason Campbell...except for one part year in Oakland.

-a bunch of strange talk coming from a management team that preached "stability" last year;

-even if all you are saying is true, there was very little accountability displayed by the people in the press conference (Haslam and Banner) of THEIR mistake. Yeah, well, I guess we made a mistake, we'll move on...trust us, we know what we're doing. And this is a team that hired Mike Lombardi as their personnel guy.

-If in fact, Chudzinski lost the locker room...this move didn't do anything towards getting it back...

"Tremendous mistake, just epic," one Cleveland player said. "It makes no sense. Everything we did this year was setting up the future -- trading draft picks, trading players for next year's picks, playing young guys toward the end of the year to see what they look like, sitting older guys at the end to get them healthy (Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, John Hughes) when they could have played.

"This is such a rash decision. They just (expletive) hired him last year! The whole year we were making all decisions for the future and now you're pissed the coach didn't win this year? What the (heck)? It was like a big experiment with players and scheme. I think it came from upstairs, and then they are surprised we didn't win more games? Yes, it's all about patience and then fire your coach Year 1. This blows."

Said another Browns player: "We had a disappointing season, but it wasn't like we invested heavy into this year anyways. Trading away our starting running back was not the way to win games today."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000306926/article/rob-chudzinski-firing-infuriates-many-cleveland-browns-players

If half of those anonymous statements are accurate...you have some pissed off players.

Even Joe Thomas was quoted publicly saying "Good teams don't fire their coach after one year" or something to that effect.

Listening to them was like listening to Brandon ...you just couldn't believe them.

[stuckincincy]

Well, with Schiano's firing, Dave Wannstedt is available.

I was surprised, but he did a decent job Coaching Special teams for the Bucs, MUCH better than Crossman.

I watched the BUF@NE game. Crossman isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the BUF bench (ST) played like the bunch of stiffs that they are. You can continue to rail on and on about coaching, but that's not going to change the fact that that collection of detritus could get deked by Grandma Moses or Helen Keller. For cripes sake, that NE player that zipped through them was 250 lb or more...

[Captain gameboy]

Well.....

At least one fired guy won't be homeless.

Shanahan's 35,000 square "house" complete.

http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-redskins/2011/10/18/2497961/mike-shanahan-washington-redskins-coach-mansion

[GvilleBills]

Well, with Schiano's firing, Dave Wannstedt is available.

I was surprised, but he did a decent job Coaching Special teams for the Bucs, MUCH better than Crossman.

Crossman is hot ****ing garbage and was a doomed hire from the start. Marrone HAS to see it.

[Mr. Pink]

-nobody has won with Jason Campbell...except for one part year in Oakland.

-a bunch of strange talk coming from a management team that preached "stability" last year;

-even if all you are saying is true, there was very little accountability displayed by the people in the press conference (Haslam and Banner) of THEIR mistake. Yeah, well, I guess we made a mistake, we'll move on...trust us, we know what we're doing. And this is a team that hired Mike Lombardi as their personnel guy.

-If in fact, Chudzinski lost the locker room...this move didn't do anything towards getting it back...

"Tremendous mistake, just epic," one Cleveland player said. "It makes no sense. Everything we did this year was setting up the future -- trading draft picks, trading players for next year's picks, playing young guys toward the end of the year to see what they look like, sitting older guys at the end to get them healthy (Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, John Hughes) when they could have played.

"This is such a rash decision. They just (expletive) hired him last year! The whole year we were making all decisions for the future and now you're pissed the coach didn't win this year? What the (heck)? It was like a big experiment with players and scheme. I think it came from upstairs, and then they are surprised we didn't win more games? Yes, it's all about patience and then fire your coach Year 1. This blows."

Said another Browns player: "We had a disappointing season, but it wasn't like we invested heavy into this year anyways. Trading away our starting running back was not the way to win games today."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000306926/article/rob-chudzinski-firing-infuriates-many-cleveland-browns-players

If half of those anonymous statements are accurate...you have some pissed off players.

Even Joe Thomas was quoted publicly saying "Good teams don't fire their coach after one year" or something to that effect.

Listening to them was like listening to Brandon ...you just couldn't believe them.

Those players quoted can go with Chud out the door, don't care who they are. They're the ones who quit on the coach to begin with as the results on the field showed. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Joe Thomas quote is spot on...good teams don't fire coaches?? WOW WHAT A REVELATION! This just in - the Browns aren't a good team.

And management is admitting they made a mistake, by firing the guy now and not dragging it out a few years before admitting it.

But yeah, Bills fans should know all about continuity and how that works out for franchises right, I mean Dick Jauron got a contract extension and then was fired. Chan Gailey was given a few years before getting the axe Both of them could and likely should have been fired after the first year. Hell, there's nothing to suggest Marrone should even be given another year. He has an entire coaching staff under him that screams bush league. Even Mike Pettine who gets talked up like some sort of football God is a step back from 2007 and Perry Fewell.

But hey...continuity, continuity, continuity. Delay the inevitable so you don't look bad in the eyes of the media.

Hell, they got rid of Trent Richardson and people blasted them...how's Trent looking these days in Indy? Oh yeah. Benched and demoted in favor of Donald Brown. But what a stupid move they made there too, right?

[pmoon6]

Lovie Smith would be a huge upgrade.

The time to get him was last year.

Now he is a hot name with better choices than Buffalo.Lovie Smith is who I wanted as our HC.

[Skooby]

Crossman is hot ****ing garbage and was a doomed hire from the start. Marrone HAS to see it.

Hot garbage, LOL.

[Mike13]

Its been speculated that Mike Sherman and Jeff Ireland will be **** canned.

Ideally I would want them to clean house, maybe hire Malzhan(an exstension of a college contract means **** all in comparison to an NFL job offer) or Jay Gruden.

[The King]

Dennis Allen is saying he won't be back.

[X-Era]

Dennis Allen is saying he won't be back.
Awesome! Bobby April come on back!

[Night Train]

I'd enjoy firing Brandon.

I'd walk behind his desk and blowtorch his beanie baby collection off his bookshelf, rendering him catatonic.

[Albany,n.y.]

Dennis Allen is saying he won't be back.

This report says the opposite:
Oakland Raiders coach Dennis Allen met with the media Monday as normal, anticipating that he will remain the team's coach in 2014.

"I have been given indication that I will be back. I have every intention of being back," Allen said before noting that he will have to "wait and see" after meeting with owner Mark Davis. "I haven't been told that I won't (be back)."

It sounds like Allen is safe, but even he wasn't sure when he would speak to Davis and know for sure. NFL Media's Mike Silver reported Sunday that Allen and general manager Reggie McKenzie received positive signals about their status last week.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000307238/article/dennis-allen-has-every-intention-to-return-to-raiders

[Albany,n.y.]

I'd enjoy firing Brandon.

I'd walk behind his desk and blowtorch his beanie baby collection off his bookshelf, rendering him catatonic.

Then save up your $ and buy the team when Ralph passes on. Or, get in touch with the new owners & tell them the best fan friendly way to start their new regime is to let a fan do Brandon's firing.
However, knowing the way this team operates, Ralph's will probably has granted Brandon a life estate to his office and the new owner would have to kill Brandon to get rid of him. Are you really up for the hitman job?

[Owen DeBoard]

Lovie Smith is who I wanted as our HC.
I don't understand all the love for Lovie. He is a great D coordinator but is NOT a good head coach. He is basically another Dick Jauron. Shows no emotion on the sidelines and is piss poor at making decisions.

[better days]

I watched the BUF@NE game. Crossman isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the BUF bench (ST) played like the bunch of stiffs that they are. You can continue to rail on and on about coaching, but that's not going to change the fact that that collection of detritus could get deked by Grandma Moses or Helen Keller. For cripes sake, that NE player that zipped through them was 250 lb or more...

Well, if that is the case what were those players doing on the field?

The Coach picked the players. It is his responsibility to pick GOOD players for Special teams. In the Gailey years, the Special teams were MUCH BETTER.

Are you telling me special teams has all different players than under Gailey? If so, I blame the turnover on the Coach.

[cookie G]

Those players quoted can go with Chud out the door, don't care who they are. They're the ones who quit on the coach to begin with as the results on the field showed. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Joe Thomas quote is spot on...good teams don't fire coaches?? WOW WHAT A REVELATION! This just in - the Browns aren't a good team.

And management is admitting they made a mistake, by firing the guy now and not dragging it out a few years before admitting it.

But yeah, Bills fans should know all about continuity and how that works out for franchises right, I mean Dick Jauron got a contract extension and then was fired. Chan Gailey was given a few years before getting the axe Both of them could and likely should have been fired after the first year. Hell, there's nothing to suggest Marrone should even be given another year. He has an entire coaching staff under him that screams bush league. Even Mike Pettine who gets talked up like some sort of football God is a step back from 2007 and Perry Fewell.

But hey...continuity, continuity, continuity. Delay the inevitable so you don't look bad in the eyes of the media.

Hell, they got rid of Trent Richardson and people blasted them...how's Trent looking these days in Indy? Oh yeah. Benched and demoted in favor of Donald Brown. But what a stupid move they made there too, right?



So if they screwed up this bad in hiring their HC...so bad that they couldn't take him for another year...what makes you think they are going to get it right this time?

When they say, "trust us, we'll stand on our track record?" Should anyone in Cleveland?

[pmoon6]

I don't understand all the love for Lovie. He is a great D coordinator but is NOT a good head coach. He is basically another Dick Jauron. Shows no emotion on the sidelines and is piss poor at making decisions.Hmmm. Got his team to two conference championship games and a SB. The unfortunate thing about people that follow the NFL is that unless you win it all you suck and are seen as incompetent.

People make fun of Marty Shottenheimer because of his lack of success in getting to the SB. Guy has over 200 wins in the NFL. Everyone lauds Lombardi as the greatest of the great, but his team was almost all put together when he went to Green Bay, he used Tom Landry's defense the whole time he was there, and he did a disservice to sports in general when he said "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" and now that's treated as Gospel. No doubt Vince was a great coach, but to think he was so much better than Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Walsh, Shula or Landry is BS.

[Owen DeBoard]

Hmmm. Got his team to two conference championship games and a SB. The unfortunate thing about people that follow the NFL is that unless you win it all you suck and are seen as incompetent.

People make fun of Marty Shottenheimer because of his lack of success in getting to the SB. Guy has over 200 wins in the NFL. Everyone lauds Lombardi as the greatest of the great, but his team was almost all put together when he went to Green Bay, he used Tom Landry's defense the whole time he was there, and he did a disservice to sports in general when he said "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" and now that's treated as Gospel. No doubt Vince was a great coach, but to think he was so much better than Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Walsh, Shula or Landry is BS.
Ok I live in northwest Indiana so it is nothing but Bears talk around here. I remember when Lovie got fired and all the reasons why they wanted to fire him. Trust me when I say this if he would've been hired it wouldn't have been any different than the Dick Jauron hiring. I was pissed when they hired that bum because he just got fired from the Bears. I don't know why people want the garbage the Bears fire. Lovie is good with his defensive scheme but in no way would he help this ****ty offence out. He had the players to make the D in Chicago work. We don't have them here. I still trust in Doug Marrone. I think he is the coach better suited for this job.

[pmoon6]

Ok I live in northwest Indiana so it is nothing but Bears talk around here. I remember when Lovie got fired and all the reasons why they wanted to fire him. Trust me when I say this if he would've been hired it wouldn't have been any different than the Dick Jauron hiring. I was pissed when they hired that bum because he just got fired from the Bears. I don't know why people want the garbage the Bears fire. Lovie is good with his defensive scheme but in no way would he help this ****ty offence out. He had the players to make the D in Chicago work. We don't have them here. I still trust in Doug Marrone. I think he is the coach better suited for this job.Maybe so, but I wanted an experienced HC and Lovie had some success. I would have even liked to have Shottenheimer, but he is getting up there in age.

That said, I'm all for giving Marrone a few years. He did an OK job this year, all things considered.

[Mace]

I caught a bit of the Cleveland presser...that was brutal on multiple fronts.

The questions were brutal, even quoting fans from the Browns facebook page.

I think the answers were worse. "Trust us". "We'll stand on our track record" "Other teams have won with lesser QB's".

The more I read about it, the worse I feel for Cleveland fans.

The "three stooges" part of the presser was hysterical to me though and I was astonished Haslam and Banner let the guy finish. It was probably the most significant reporter/management moment I have ever seen. The guy made his point in spades and they took it and maybe learned something.

I feel real bad for Cleveland though.

[Mr. Pink]

So if they screwed up this bad in hiring their HC...so bad that they couldn't take him for another year...what makes you think they are going to get it right this time?

When they say, "trust us, we'll stand on our track record?" Should anyone in Cleveland?

What makes almost any fanbase think they're gonna get their coaching hire right? I mean they've all failed at some or even most of their coaching hires in the past.

Put it in Bills terms. They missed on Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey - what makes people think Marrone is a good hire?

Better to find out your choice was wrong earlier rather than later and waste more time on the guy.

- - - Updated - - -


The more I read about it, the worse I feel for Cleveland fans.

The "three stooges" part of the presser was hysterical to me though and I was astonished Haslam and Banner let the guy finish. It was probably the most significant reporter/management moment I have ever seen. The guy made his point in spades and they took it and maybe learned something.

I feel real bad for Cleveland though.

Like people felt real bad about the TRich trade too, right?

Chud was a guy in his first coaching stint that went 4-12, lost the locker room and had a team that lost 7 straight games to close the season. He's not the second coming of Paul Brown or something that just got fired. The only fired head coach in Browns history to be unhappy or sad about is when Modell fired Schottenheimer back in 1989.

[Mace]

Like people felt real bad about the TRich trade too, right?

Chud was a guy in his first coaching stint that went 4-12, lost the locker room and had a team that lost 7 straight games to close the season. He's not the second coming of Paul Brown or something that just got fired. The only fired head coach in Browns history to be unhappy or sad about is when Modell fired Schottenheimer back in 1989.

No, he wasn't a real clever hire, but if you read more about it, when he was running with a depleted roster as they accumulated draft picks for 2014, they pushed him to deplete his roster worse by cutting vets to make statements and play their insufficient picks who couldn't gain playing time but "win now" with even worse talent. That just doesn't make sense. There's all kinds of stuff going on there with Lombardi, Banner and Haslam.

The obvious thing not to do was hire Chudzinski at the start, but they did. And wasted a year, and who is going to want to jump into the middle of Banner and Haslam and Lombardi ? You see Josh McDaniels mentioned. That would be sort of hilariously catastrophic.

Those fans are rabid, they lost a team, regained it, and now have to put up with being a mess. I feel bad for Cleveland.

[GingerP]

So if they screwed up this bad in hiring their HC...so bad that they couldn't take him for another year...what makes you think they are going to get it right this time?

Mike Lombardi, the GM, did not hire Chud. Chudzinski was hired on January 11th last year. Lombardi joined the Browns front office as VP of Player Personnel on January 18th. He was later promoted to GM on March 5th. So, he inherited Chudzinski.

Not that he knows what he is doing, but just saying the GM is making his first hire.

[Mace]

Mike Lombardi, the GM, did not hire Chud. Chudzinski was hired on January 11th last year. Lombardi joined the Browns front office as VP of Player Personnel on January 18th. He was later promoted to GM on March 5th. So, he inherited Chudzinski.

Not that he knows what he is doing, but just saying the GM is making his first hire.

That's the thing though, no one knows if the GM is actually making his first hire, might be Banner or Haslam, who made the first one. They're a mess.

[GingerP]

That's the thing though, no one knows if the GM is actually making his first hire, might be Banner or Haslam, who made the first one. They're a mess.

I don't know. They are definitely starting over. But their situation isn't terrible.

They will bring in a new coaching staff. They have tons of cap room ($40M or so). They have a few FA to sign in Alex Mack, T.J. Ward and Shawn Lauvao, but nothing too bad. They have 10 picks in the upcoming draft, including extra 1st and 3rd rounders. They need a QB, but they have the 4th pick in the draft. They have some good, young talent, including one of the most dynamic offensive players in the NFL in Josh Gordon.

I could see them turning things around in the near future.

[cookie G]

What makes almost any fanbase think they're gonna get their coaching hire right? I mean they've all failed at some or even most of their coaching hires in the past.

Put it in Bills terms. They missed on Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey - what makes people think Marrone is a good hire?

Better to find out your choice was wrong earlier rather than later and waste more time on the guy.

And what's the thing Buffalo, Cleveland and the Raiders have in common...besides bad drafting, having little leadership and an incompetent front office?

A revolving door of coaches (BTW...Mike Lombardi, when he played the Russ Brandon role to Al Davis, went through 5 head coaches in 9 years.).

Again I ask...what makes you think they are going to get it right?

They are trying to sell this present team to the Cleveland fans...and promised change...and how is this different from what they've done in the past?


Those players quoted can go with Chud out the door, don't care who they are. They're the ones who quit on the coach to begin with as the results on the field showed. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Grins...here's what some of the players said..

The guys here really bought into him," Gordon said. "The guys loved him. Like anything, it's going to grow on you. You learn to appreciate what he did for us here. The guys needed structure and he brought that here."

…Sunday, Thomas and Jackson were strong in lamenting the mere notion that Chudzinski might be fired. Monday, none were in the locker room during the media interview time.

“You look at the great franchises. They don’t fire your coach after the first season. You can’t do it,” Thomas said.
What Thomas thinks the Browns need is consistency, not to fire a coach who had just begun to build his team.
“It sets everything back,” Thomas said. “You just hit the reset button. Anytime you hit the reset button, it severely damages the organization, and it lengthens the amount of time that it takes to get back to the playoffs and turn the team into a consistent winner. … I think that this organization needs continuity and that’s the only chance that we’re going to have to turn this team into a consistent winner.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/29/joe-thomas-great-franchises-dont-fire-coaches-after-one-year/

“I like coach Chud a lot,” said tight end Jordan Cameron. “He’s a great coach and he did a great job, and it’s his first year. I like the way he is. He’s a competitor and he’s a grinder.”

Cameron later added: “Guys deserve a chance to turn a program around and get things going, so (the possibility) is kind of shocking. I’m all for Chud and what he does, and support him 100 percent.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/category/_/name/cleveland-browns

he feelings of the players were evident, though.

“That’s ridiculous,” linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said.

Safety T.J. Ward, who could be a free agent, said the team believed in Chudzinski through the entire season.

“If we didn’t believe in him we wouldn’t have played for him,” Ward said. “You’d see a lot of rebelling and a lot of guys doing their own thing, and I don’t think that happened at all this year. It just didn’t happen the way we wanted it. When you have guys playing until the end of the season when there’s nothing to play for, you know you’ve got a good coach.”


So that's your plan?

Tell the following people they can follow him out the door?

Pro Bowl LT
Pro Bowl WR
Pro Bowl TE
Leading tackler on D
one of your better DB's.

And this from a guy who's continually whining about keeping Jairus Byrd?

Wow....this is right up there with your plan to tank the season, hop in a time machine and draft Peyton Manning.

[cookie G]

Mike Lombardi, the GM, did not hire Chud. Chudzinski was hired on January 11th last year. Lombardi joined the Browns front office as VP of Player Personnel on January 18th. He was later promoted to GM on March 5th. So, he inherited Chudzinski.

Not that he knows what he is doing, but just saying the GM is making his first hire.

You may be right about Lombardi not being involved in the hiring decision.

Of course, hiring Lombardi is kind of a joke in and of itself. His drafts for the Raiders were...Billsesque. He himself went through 5 coaches in his tenure and was such a conniving little backstabber that Art Shell actually banned him from the practice field and outed him as the Judas of the Raiders.

- - - Updated - - -


The more I read about it, the worse I feel for Cleveland fans.

The "three stooges" part of the presser was hysterical to me though and I was astonished Haslam and Banner let the guy finish. It was probably the most significant reporter/management moment I have ever seen. The guy made his point in spades and they took it and maybe learned something.

I feel real bad for Cleveland though.

The three stooges question was pretty funny. And its bad when a Bills fan can feel sorry for the fans of another team.

[Mace]

I don't know. They are definitely starting over. But their situation isn't terrible.

They will bring in a new coaching staff. They have tons of cap room ($40M or so). They have a few FA to sign in Alex Mack, T.J. Ward and Shawn Lauvao, but nothing too bad. They have 10 picks in the upcoming draft, including extra 1st and 3rd rounders. They need a QB, but they have the 4th pick in the draft. They have some good, young talent, including one of the most dynamic offensive players in the NFL in Josh Gordon.

I could see them turning things around in the near future.

Mike Lombardi is really historically bad at drafts though. And if they get a coach to mesh with his deficiency, it could be really deficient really fast with a meddling Banner and Haslam.

They do have some good young talent, plenty of picks and cap room, if they have a plan and philosophy...but there's no real telling Chudzinski couldn't have done something with it either.

I want that one...no THAT one....no THAT ONE......NO, that one ! Get a new one next year !

They shouldn't have really hired Chudzinski, I think everyone figures, so moving on to the next one looks kind of impulsive too. Hurry up, we have picks and cap room and young talent ! Next coach is not going to feel real comfortable with implementing a plan, reports already say they want Manziel, which means next coach might not even get to choose his QB.

They asked Haslam why his GM isn't at press conferences to explain personnel stuff when so much is about personnel stuff and Haslam said he never really thought about it. Uh oh.

[Owen DeBoard]

Maybe so, but I wanted an experienced HC and Lovie had some success. I would have even liked to have Shottenheimer, but he is getting up there in age.

That said, I'm all for giving Marrone a few years. He did an OK job this year, all things considered.
Yeah I would've liked some Marty ball also. I like how the team was in most games this year. I think Marrone did the best he could being his first year as the coach and all the issues with the QB this team had. A lot of people had this team winning 2 to 3 games this year. I hate how this team cant have a winning record but that wasn't realistic at the beginning of the season. I expect a winning record next year since Marrone has had a full year and now another offseason to get things figured out. I think he can do it.

[Mr. Pink]

And what's the thing Buffalo, Cleveland and the Raiders have in common...besides bad drafting, having little leadership and an incompetent front office?

A revolving door of coaches (BTW...Mike Lombardi, when he played the Russ Brandon role to Al Davis, went through 5 head coaches in 9 years.).

Again I ask...what makes you think they are going to get it right?

They are trying to sell this present team to the Cleveland fans...and promised change...and how is this different from what they've done in the past?



Grins...here's what some of the players said..

The guys here really bought into him," Gordon said. "The guys loved him. Like anything, it's going to grow on you. You learn to appreciate what he did for us here. The guys needed structure and he brought that here."

…Sunday, Thomas and Jackson were strong in lamenting the mere notion that Chudzinski might be fired. Monday, none were in the locker room during the media interview time.

“You look at the great franchises. They don’t fire your coach after the first season. You can’t do it,” Thomas said.
What Thomas thinks the Browns need is consistency, not to fire a coach who had just begun to build his team.
“It sets everything back,” Thomas said. “You just hit the reset button. Anytime you hit the reset button, it severely damages the organization, and it lengthens the amount of time that it takes to get back to the playoffs and turn the team into a consistent winner. … I think that this organization needs continuity and that’s the only chance that we’re going to have to turn this team into a consistent winner.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/29/joe-thomas-great-franchises-dont-fire-coaches-after-one-year/

“I like coach Chud a lot,” said tight end Jordan Cameron. “He’s a great coach and he did a great job, and it’s his first year. I like the way he is. He’s a competitor and he’s a grinder.”

Cameron later added: “Guys deserve a chance to turn a program around and get things going, so (the possibility) is kind of shocking. I’m all for Chud and what he does, and support him 100 percent.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/category/_/name/cleveland-browns

he feelings of the players were evident, though.

“That’s ridiculous,” linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said.

Safety T.J. Ward, who could be a free agent, said the team believed in Chudzinski through the entire season.

“If we didn’t believe in him we wouldn’t have played for him,” Ward said. “You’d see a lot of rebelling and a lot of guys doing their own thing, and I don’t think that happened at all this year. It just didn’t happen the way we wanted it. When you have guys playing until the end of the season when there’s nothing to play for, you know you’ve got a good coach.”


So that's your plan?

Tell the following people they can follow him out the door?

Pro Bowl LT
Pro Bowl WR
Pro Bowl TE
Leading tackler on D
one of your better DB's.

And this from a guy who's continually whining about keeping Jairus Byrd?

Wow....this is right up there with your plan to tank the season, hop in a time machine and draft Peyton Manning.

The players that quit can be shown the door with him. The team flat out quit. A team playing to save their coaches job does what the Jets did Sunday not what the Browns did Sunday or have done since the Pats game.

[Historian]

And what's the thing Buffalo, Cleveland and the Raiders have in common...besides bad drafting, having little leadership and an incompetent front office?


Uncommitted ownership.

I've always felt it starts at the top.

There's a scene in North Dallas Forty, where Steve Forrest, the owner of the Dallas team (the guy from SWAT) and his buddies are watching a practice. One of his buddies, (in a 3 piece suit, and a 10 gallon hat) turns to him, and says...

"Conrad, your manufacturing division makes ten times what this football team does...why do you care about it so much?"

To which he replies...

"My manufacturing division never made the cover of Sports Illustrated!"

Does anyone see what I'm getting at? Winning has never been a priority at 1BD, in Cleveland, and a handful of other places. Coincidentally, those places have never won a title. Oh sure they want to win, but when it comes down to it, it's a business, and a money making venture.

The fictitious Conrad Hunter, as well as the Jerry Joneses, the Bob Krafts, the Al Davises, the Joe Robbies...they all wanted something more than a return on an investment.

They wanted the title, at any cost.

We have never had that type of ownership here. Neither has Cleveland.

I think the most telling statement was made by Ralph when we were going to the SB every year. He essentially said (paraphrasing) "Boy these last few years have been a lot more fun than the previous 15 or 20."

He then promptly dismissed the architect of it all.

[Jan Reimers]

Put it in Bills terms. They missed on Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey - what makes people think Marrone is a good hire?


I personally am banking on the Law of Averages and the Blind Squirrel analogy. When you're a Bills' fan, you take what you can get.

[better days]

Uncommitted ownership.

I've always felt it starts at the top.

There's a scene in North Dallas Forty, where Steve Forrest, the owner of the Dallas team (the guy from SWAT) and his buddies are watching a practice. One of his buddies, (in a 3 piece suit, and a 10 gallon hat) turns to him, and says...

"Conrad, your manufacturing division makes ten times what this football team does...why do you care about it so much?"

To which he replies...

"My manufacturing division never made the cover of Sports Illustrated!"

Does anyone see what I'm getting at? Winning has never been a priority at 1BD, in Cleveland, and a handful of other places. Coincidentally, those places have never won a title. Oh sure they want to win, but when it comes down to it, it's a business, and a money making venture.

The fictitious Conrad Hunter, as well as the Jerry Joneses, the Bob Krafts, the Al Davises, the Joe Robbies...they all wanted something more than a return on an investment.

They wanted the title, at any cost.

We have never had that type of ownership here. Neither has Cleveland.

I think the most telling statement was made by Ralph when we were going to the SB every year. He essentially said (paraphrasing) "Boy these last few years have been a lot more fun than the previous 15 or 20."

He then promptly dismissed the architect of it all.

The Bills did have a Forrest type owner......................a LONG time ago.

That is the reason Ralph started the AFL, he wanted in the NFL but was rebuffed so he & his friends started the AFL.

WINNING was IMPORTANT to Ralph in the 1960's.

I think after the AFL merger with the NFL & the Bills increased so much in value & Ralph got older is when he began to view the Bills as more of an investment than a fun hobby.

[Historian]

I can agree with that.

But if one is searching for a reason for the Decade of Dismality, I think that's where you look.

[pmoon6]

The single biggest mistake in Ralph Wilson's ownership was firing Bill Polian. There are more, like Knox and Phillips, but I digress. That showed that Ralph let his emotions dictate what should have been a business decision and the decision would have been to keep the GM that gave you three shots at a title if you were looking at it from a business perspective.

There is no way we can even begin to get into the mind of a guy that has a billion dollars and virtually a small fiefdom with an NFL team. It would seem that Ralph's ego is as big as his pocketbook, but you can say that for a lot of owners.

[better days]

I can agree with that.

But if one is searching for a reason for the Decade of Dismality, I think that's where you look.

Agreed. Now with Brandon running the team, I believe he has an interest in winning...................if only to continue to sell tickets.

[justasportsfan]

I hope the browns hire Josh McDaniels.

[GingerP]

I can agree with that.

But if one is searching for a reason for the Decade of Dismality, I think that's where you look.

Decade? Shouldn't it be over then?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I'd enjoy firing Brandon.

I'd walk behind his desk and blowtorch his beanie baby collection off his bookshelf, rendering him catatonic.

Can we fire Ralph too?