Fitzdalton and Marvin Lewis

[Night Train]

..Will never win a playoff game.

[imbondz]

Lewis 0-5 / Dalton 0-3

[jamesiscool]

Fitz couldn't hold Dalton's jock strap.

[YardRat]

I don't think Dalton needs a jock strap.

[Bill Cody]

Dear Andy Dalton,
Those picks weren't your fault.
Sincerely,
Geno Smith

[swiper]

Love to hear Bills fans criticizing other teams QBs who actually TOOK them into the play-offs.

Didn't your mother ever tell you about people who live in glass houses casting stones?

[TacklingDummy]

Really??? when's the last time the Bills won a playoff game?

[YardRat]

Love to hear Bills fans criticizing other teams QBs who actually TOOK them into the play-offs.

Didn't your mother ever tell you about people who live in glass houses casting stones?

If you think QB is the only position that has kept this team out of the playoffs the last 14 years, I can't help you there.

[YardRat]

Really??? when's the last time the Bills won a playoff game?

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic.

[Bill Cody]

Love to hear Bills fans criticizing other teams QBs who actually TOOK them into the play-offs.

Didn't your mother ever tell you about people who live in glass houses casting stones?
Good point. On 2nd thought Dalton is outstanding.

[TacklingDummy]

If you think QB is the only position that has kept this team out of the playoffs the last 14 years, I can't help you there.

It's certainly not the only one but it is the main one.

[Night Train]

Fitzdalton in 3 playoff games
0-3
1 TD 6 INT's

Time for Cinci to get a new QB and Coach.

[YardRat]

It's certainly not the only one but it is the main one.

I would actually contend that coaching is the main one.

[TacklingDummy]

I would actually contend that coaching is the main one.
If you look at coaches that were consistent winners overall you'll see that most of them had a good QB.
When some of them didn't have that QB they struggled.

[Mr. Pink]

If you look at coaches that were consistent winners overall you'll see that most of them had a good QB.
When some of them didn't have that QB they struggled.

Heck, Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey had a decent year here when Bledsoe was playing well overall.

It's all about the QB.

[TacklingDummy]

It's all about the QB.
How did Levy do without Kelly?
Belichick in Cleveland vs. New England?
Nollwithout Bradshaw?
Reeves without Elway?
Shula without Grease and Marino?
Landry without Staubach/White?
Caldwell without Manning?
Etc...

It's always been a QB league.

[cookie G]

..Will never win a playoff game.

Nor will Aaron Williams.

[Mace]

To me it's pretty simple, the evil brows of Dalton fell to the amiable brows of Rivers, faces non withstanding because then you get that Spock vs. Spock issue where you can't tell the good Spock from the bad Spock. I'm comfortable in saying the forces of good won this round, and the least bad Spock while beating the worst Spock will be saying goodnight next game because there aren't anymore evil brows among remaining playoff QB's.

Yeah, I don't know where I come up with this stuff either.

[EDS]

Fitzdalton in 3 playoff games
0-3
1 TD 6 INT's

Time for Cinci to get a new QB and Coach.

I wish the Bills only had the Bemgals problems.

[imbondz]

red heads will never win a SuperBowl

[Mace]

red heads will never win a SuperBowl

There's that too.

[Night Train]

For those who wish to turn any non-Bills thread into another agenda driven " Bills suck " whine, I give you your theme song, One Trick Pony by Paul Simon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfv3kBzJZgU



Back to the premise of the thread. The Bengals struggled to sell out the game, because the fanbase knows what's coming. The inability to win a playoff game with that coach and QB.

[swiper]

If you think QB is the only position that has kept this team out of the playoffs the last 14 years, I can't help you there.

If you don't think it's, by far, the biggest one then there is no help for you. What an absolutely ******ed comeback on your part.

And the only hypocrytical whine seems to be loudly in the original post.

[YardRat]

If you look at coaches that were consistent winners overall you'll see that most of them had a good QB.
When some of them didn't have that QB they struggled.

'Most' and 'good' are the key words, not 'elite', and none of them jettisoned their rookie QB after just 10 games. The only real exception might be Joe Gibbs, who seemed to win regardless of who he put under center. And Bill Parcells, although that brings back painful memories.

[YardRat]

Heck, Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey had a decent year here when Bledsoe was playing well overall.

It's all about the QB.

Well, just a few quick examples off the top of my head would be the Bills (Reich), the Giants (Hostetler), the Ravens (Dilfer), the Redskins (Theisman, Rypien, Williams), Miami (Griese and Morrall), Colts (Unitas and Morrall), etc.

With today's rules, it may be all about the QB in the regular season, but defense and offensive lines still win championships.

[YardRat]

For a more recent example, the Saints. The one constant over the last three seasons has been their QB, Brees. They win when the defense plays well and they have good coaching, and lose (last season) when they don't.

[TacklingDummy]

The only real exception might be Joe Gibbs, who seemed to win regardless of who he put under center.

Whoever they put under center usually played well.
In his Super Bowl years his passing offenses were ranked....

1982: 12 Passing yards, 8 TDs, 3 Ints
1987: 4th Yards, 4th TDs, 11ths Ints
1991: 5 Yards, 2 TDs, 3 Ints

The non Super Bowl years his passing offenses were ranked in the Top 10.

I guess he got good production out of that position.

[TacklingDummy]

For a more recent example, the Saints. The one constant over the last three seasons has been their QB, Brees. They win when the defense plays well and they have good coaching, and lose (last season) when they don't.

If it's coaching then how come Jim Caldwell was 14-2 in 2009, 10-6 in 2010, and 2-14 in 2011? Did he all of a sudden become a bad coach? Or was there another reason?

[GingerP]

Not that I love the guy, but it is hard to pin that loss on Lewis. It isn't like he had terrible game-management errors or anything, and Dalton is the guy he has to work with. I'm sure he didn't coach him to fumble without being touched or make terrible throws into the flat to guys who are covered.

[Historian]

Cincinnati barely beat us.

[pmoon6]

How did Levy do without Kelly?
Belichick in Cleveland vs. New England?
Nollwithout Bradshaw?
Reeves without Elway?
Shula without Grease and Marino?
Landry without Staubach/White?
Caldwell without Manning?
Etc...

It's always been a QB league.Reeves took the Falcons to a Super Bowl with....Chris Chandler.

Landry won with both Meredith and Morton.

Noll benched Bradshaw at least three times in favor of Joe Gilliam and Terry Hannraty.

When Shula went undefeated Earl Morrall was at the helm most of the year.

After building the team in Cleveland, Belichick went 11-5 and 1-1 in the playoffs with Vinny freakin' Testaverde


Joe Gibbs won Super Bowls with Joe Theismann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. HOFers all.........oh wait
.

My apologies to Yard, I didn't see his post, but when I read idiocy I react.

[Night Train]

Cincinnati barely beat us.


And Thad Lewis was making his 1st start at QB for us.

[pmoon6]

By the way Dummy, your mistaking Bob Griese with a movie you saw when you were a lad.

[TacklingDummy]

Reeves took the Falcons to a Super Bowl with....Chris Chandler.
Chandler had 25 TDs that year, ATL passing offense ranked 11th, 6th for passing TDs, Reeves best year in Atlanta. After that year Atlanta passing offense stunk and so did their record.

Landry won with both Meredith and Morton.
Meredith was a bad QB? Dallas passing offense was ranked 4th when Morton was QB

Noll benched Bradshaw at least three times in favor of Joe Gilliam and Terry Hannraty.

and yet Bradswhaw was the starter for all 4 SBs

When Shula went undefeated Earl Morrall was at the helm most of the year.


After building the team in Cleveland, Belichick went 11-5 and 1-1 in the playoffs with Vinny freakin' Testaverde
exception is not the rule


Joe Gibbs won Super Bowls with Joe Theismann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. HOFers all.........oh wait
I already went over Washington passing offense under Gibbs, see above
.

.

Thanks for helping me show that coaches win when their QB performs. Of course there's always a exception.

For every 1 team that won without a good passing game, I can show you 30 that won with a good passing game and 30 that sucked with a bad passing game.. Most of your examples even show that.

The Top 16 teams in QB Rate, 12 of them made the Playoffs.
The bottom 16, 0 of them made the Playoffs
Only 1 of the Top 16 had a losing record.

The Top 16 teams in Passing Touchdowns, 10 of them made the playoffs.

[pmoon6]

Thanks for helping me show that coaches win when their QB performs. Of course there's always a exception.

For every 1 team that won without a good passing game, I can show you 30 that won with a good passing game and 30 that sucked with a bad passing game.. Most of your examples even show that.

The Top 16 teams in QB Rate, 12 of them made the Playoffs.
The bottom 16, 0 of them made the Playoffs
Only 1 of the Top 16 had a losing record.

The Top 16 teams in Passing Touchdowns, 10 of them made the playoffs.I never said Meredith and Morton were bad QBs, you said that Landry was nothing without Staubach or Danny White.

Your premise was that those coaches couldn't win without those QBs. I just showed they could. You also said nothing about "when the QB performs", so you look like you are back pedaling from a moronic position.

Maybe I should throw in Chicago with Jim McMahon or HOF QBs that didn't win a title? Tarkenton, Marino, Jorgensen, Fouts, Kelly?

It always has been a team game, it still is to some extent, but the QB is way more important when the O-Line is allowed to hold and the receivers can't be touched. You say it's always been about the QB. How many rings would Bradshaw have without the "Steel Curtain" or two receivers that would still catch a five yard overthrow?

[justasportsfan]

If you look at coaches that were consistent winners overall you'll see that most of them had a good QB.
When some of them didn't have that QB they struggled.

I agree it starts with the qb, but a coach is equally as important. The 9'ers case of before and after they acquired Harbaugh with Smith as their qb. Night and day with the same players.

[Mr. Pink]

And the Browns with Vinny Testaverde couldn't win in the playoffs because their QB play wasn't good enough. They had the best defense in the NFL that year and allowed something like 12 sacks all year. So they dominated the trenches and what did that get them? Losing 3 times to the Steelers during the year, including in the playoffs.

The Cowboys didn't win a Superbowl until Roger Staubach came along.

Joe Theismann was a perennial all-pro and pro-bowl QB. Mark Rypien was the best QB in the league in 1991.

The 1985 Bears? Oddly enough Jim McMahon had his best season of his career that year.

The NFL for the better part of the Superbowl Era has been a QB driven league with a few exceptions. Even the 2000 Ravens are part of the QB driven part of the equation. If they weren't Tony Banks would have never been benched and he would have started the Superbowl.

The 1974 Steelers are probably the only exception to QB play driving a team to winning I can think of as Bradshaw, Hanratty and Gilliam were all terrible. The other years the Steelers won the Superbowl, Bradshaw was a pro-bowler.

[pmoon6]

And the Browns with Vinny Testaverde couldn't win in the playoffs because their QB play wasn't good enough. They had the best defense in the NFL that year and allowed something like 12 sacks all year. So they dominated the trenches and what did that get them? Losing 3 times to the Steelers during the year, including in the playoffs.

The Cowboys didn't win a Superbowl until Roger Staubach came along.

Joe Theismann was a perennial all-pro and pro-bowl QB. Mark Rypien was the best QB in the league in 1991.

The 1985 Bears? Oddly enough Jim McMahon had his best season of his career that year.

The NFL for the better part of the Superbowl Era has been a QB driven league with a few exceptions. Even the 2000 Ravens are part of the QB driven part of the equation. If they weren't Tony Banks would have never been benched and he would have started the Superbowl.

The 1974 Steelers are probably the only exception to QB play driving a team to winning I can think of as Bradshaw, Hanratty and Gilliam were all terrible. The other years the Steelers won the Superbowl, Bradshaw was a pro-bowler.HaHaha. Once again you prove that a bag of rocks could beat you in a history and logic contest.

[Mr. Pink]

HaHaha. Once again you prove that a bag of rocks could beat you in a history and logic contest.

Excellent rebuttal.

When posed with facts that show your point is old, antiquated and outright wrong you stick to flinging insults.

Go back to enjoying the 1974 NFL and wonder why the Bills never win with scrubs like Losman, Fitzpatrick, Edwards and Manuel behind center.

[pmoon6]

Excellent rebuttal.

When posed with facts that show your point is old, antiquated and outright wrong you stick to flinging insults.

Go back to enjoying the 1974 NFL and wonder why the Bills never win with scrubs like Losman, Fitzpatrick, Edwards and Manuel behind center.Maybe you can go cry to a moderator, some of your friends like to. Maybe even you yourself.

The point is even through the '90's, it was a team game. You can try to say it wasn't, but you look like a fool. Does Troy Aikman have three rings without Emmitt Smith? Maybe, but doubtful. Does Elway even win a SB without Terrell Davis? Most likely not. The passing game feeds off the run in those cases.

You can keep beating the QB drum concerning today's game and it does have merit considering the rule changes. To say that it's always been about the QB is historically incorrect. Examples have been cited, but you refuse to see because it doesn't fit your theory. You then continue to argue when you have been proven wrong, twisting and turning, spinning. You should have been a politician.

I have not been posed with the facts, just your version. Which is why I insult you all the time. Pompous egoism is a perfect target.

[pmoon6]

BTW, if you and your pals hate the Bills' so much, which is clearly evident, try sticking your head up you ass and see how it fits. Then you can smell what we do when we read your posts.

[YardRat]

If it's coaching then how come Jim Caldwell was 14-2 in 2009, 10-6 in 2010, and 2-14 in 2011? Did he all of a sudden become a bad coach? Or was there another reason?

The 'other reason' would be the Colts put so much emphasis and money into one position and one person (QB Manning) that the rest of the team, including it's depth, suffered.

One would think Baltimore had learned from Indy's mistake (though some would not consider it as such, with them ending up with Luck), but they didn't.

Keep an eye on the Raven's over the next couple of seasons and see how they perform...they'll probably end up with the first pick in the draft in 2016, maybe sooner.

[trapezeus]

consistency in qb play is inarguably the key to being a good team. even scrub qb's have their moments, but when they do, their team wins. we did with fitz. you need a guy who is accurate. and all of the qb's are capable of being accurate for periods of time. only the greats do it consistently. and as a result, their teams win.

rarely do you see teams like the chiefs have such an excellent performance from the qb and lose.

[Mr. Pink]

Maybe you can go cry to a moderator, some of your friends like to. Maybe even you yourself.

The point is even through the '90's, it was a team game. You can try to say it wasn't, but you look like a fool. Does Troy Aikman have three rings without Emmitt Smith? Maybe, but doubtful. Does Elway even win a SB without Terrell Davis? Most likely not. The passing game feeds off the run in those cases.

You can keep beating the QB drum concerning today's game and it does have merit considering the rule changes. To say that it's always been about the QB is historically incorrect. Examples have been cited, but you refuse to see because it doesn't fit your theory. You then continue to argue when you have been proven wrong, twisting and turning, spinning. You should have been a politician.

I have not been posed with the facts, just your version. Which is why I insult you all the time. Pompous egoism is a perfect target.

So it's not a fact that the Cowboys didn't win a Superbowl before Staubach came along? It's not a fact that McMahon had his best season in 1985? It's not a fact that the Ravens changed QBs because with Banks they weren't good enough? It's not a fact that Theismann was a perennial pro-bowler and one of the top QBs of that time period? It's not a fact that Bradshaw besides 74, went to the pro-bowl the other 3 times the Steelers won the SB? It's not a fact that even in 1994 with the best defense in football and an o-line who didn't give up sacks the Browns didn't win?

All of those are facts, there is no spin.

Name me a team besides the 74 Steelers who won a Superbowl with terrible QB play.

Since the advent of the forward pass, QB play has always been the main condition of success in the NFL with very few exceptions. Even back when the Browns were dominating the NFL in the 50s and the Packers were dominating the NFL in the 60s.

[Beebe's Kid]

Fitzdalton in 3 playoff games
0-3
1 TD 6 INT's

Time for Cinci to get a new QB and Coach.

I love this. They have been to the playoffs 3 times with Dalton. Three.

Buffalo fans answer to everything? Total rebuild. Haha...and why not? Our three-year cycles are yielding fantastic results. Losing a playoff game every year would really suck...

And as for the rest of this thread, the internet tough guy act is hilarious.

[pmoon6]

So it's not a fact that the Cowboys didn't win a Superbowl before Staubach came along? It's not a fact that McMahon had his best season in 1985? It's not a fact that the Ravens changed QBs because with Banks they weren't good enough? It's not a fact that Theismann was a perennial pro-bowler and one of the top QBs of that time period? It's not a fact that Bradshaw besides 74, went to the pro-bowl the other 3 times the Steelers won the SB? It's not a fact that even in 1994 with the best defense in football and an o-line who didn't give up sacks the Browns didn't win?

All of those are facts, there is no spin.

Name me a team besides the 74 Steelers who won a Superbowl with terrible QB play.

Since the advent of the forward pass, QB play has always been the main condition of success in the NFL with very few exceptions. Even back when the Browns were dominating the NFL in the 50s and the Packers were dominating the NFL in the 60s.You're not worth arguing with. The Cleveland Browns won because of Jim Brown. The Packers won because of Hornung and Taylor.

You know nothing about the game or it's history, and besides you're an ******* to boot.

Buh Bye.

[Mr. Pink]

You're not worth arguing with. The Cleveland Browns won because of Jim Brown. The Packers won because of Hornung and Taylor.

You know nothing about the game or it's history, and besides you're an ******* to boot.

Buh Bye.

:rofl:

Otto Graham played from 46-55. Cleveland went to 10 title games and won 6 of them.

Jim Brown played from 57-65. Cleveland went to 2 title games and won 1. Hell they didn't even make it to the postseason for 4 or 5 of his seasons.

Try again.

[stuckincincy]

Not that I love the guy, but it is hard to pin that loss on Lewis. It isn't like he had terrible game-management errors or anything, and Dalton is the guy he has to work with. I'm sure he didn't coach him to fumble without being touched or make terrible throws into the flat to guys who are covered.

No excuses for Dalton. Down by 3 at the half, and getting the ball to start the 3nd, CIN proceeded to run the ball 3 times the entire 2nd half. Lewis panics, OC Gruden panics, their idiot OC before Gruden did the same. Recall last year against HOU, when Gruden spent the 1st half having Dalton heave passes to TE Gresham - he dropped them - and ignored Green.

Lewis has a losing coaching record, is 0 -5 in playoffs is absoultely terrible when it comes to big games. His record in prime time games is horrific.

But his job is secure, and next season, the owner gets a new jumbotron for free, to go into his free stadium.

[Bill Cody]

You can have a winning record in the league with average QB play but to win championships you need stellar QB play. There are a few outliers but if you look over the SB winning QB's it's an elite list. And that's nothing new, start at SB 1 and go forward. Manuel is below average right now but that did not surprise me. He was very green when he got here and still is. I give him one more year to make a quantum leap before I call for pulling the plug. The QB job in the league is really hard. But I want to win it all so I don't believe you can settle for mediocrity at QB.

[Bill Cody]

Not to excuse the inexcusable picks but that game's momentum and the playcalling on both sides flipped on a dime with that fumble inside the 10 by Cincy near the end of the half. Key play of the game in my opinion. The score could have easily gone the opposite way if Cincy punches that one in. Clearly Dalton was pressing big time in the 2nd half.

[Bill Cody]

I love this. They have been to the playoffs 3 times with Dalton. Three.

Buffalo fans answer to everything? Total rebuild. Haha...and why not? Our three-year cycles are yielding fantastic results. Losing a playoff game every year would really suck...

And as for the rest of this thread, the internet tough guy act is hilarious.

It's only a rebuild if you actually rebuild. Our roster is more talented now than it was but are we more talented than Cincy? ummm....no And the coaches that have been fired were fired because we simply lost patience? Um...no they just weren't good coaches. We are a team that hasn't over or under achieved. We've just been bad for a long time, wake up and smell the coffee. And when you're bad you make changes. Period. The goal is to win a championship. IMHO Cincy won't with Lewis and Dalton. Sure I'd rather be them than us and playing meaningful games in january but that's a different discussion.

[swiper]

My apologies to Yard, I didn't see his post, but when I read idiocy I react.

You must have a lot of broken mirrors in your house then. From punching them every morning.

[Mace]

If it's coaching then how come Jim Caldwell was 14-2 in 2009, 10-6 in 2010, and 2-14 in 2011? Did he all of a sudden become a bad coach? Or was there another reason?

Well, Jim Caldwell was always a bad coach really.

[Mace]

Name me a team besides the 74 Steelers who won a Superbowl with terrible QB play. .

Well, Baltimore in 2000 with Dilfer, Denver in 1997 with Elway. Not sure that covers the modern era but Dilfer was 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD, Elway was 12 of 22 for 123 and an INT.

Was looking at all this stuff this morning and od'ed on stats reading a slam article on Dalton. Truth is, Elway was worse at that stage of career and was slammed worse for big game chokes until his career was validated by the SB wins 14 years after it started. Elway was 3 td's vs 8 ints with a 50% completion percentage in the big game.

You have to admit the Staubach Cowboys had a great running game, big time defense, same with McMahon's Bears.

[TacklingDummy]

Well, Jim Caldwell was always a bad coach really.
So Peyton Manning made him look like a good coach?
Kind of like how Kelly made Levy look like one.

[TacklingDummy]

You have to admit the Staubach Cowboys had a great running game, big time defense, same with McMahon's Bears.
Sure they did but they also performed. How many teams consistently win year in and year without their QB performing.

[Mace]

So Peyton Manning made him look like a good coach?
Kind of like how Kelly made Levy look like one.

Probably even more so than Marchibroda helped Kelly make Levy look like a good coach. Levy was a bad coach most often if you remember any of it. If you watched any of the games where Caldwell had to coach he was just utterly lost and without a clue. If you want, I can give you atrocious examples. Manning carried Caldwell like a sack of cement.

Caldwell is a decent OC, probably a good QB coach, but he's an absolutely lost HC and I hope he gets the chance to prove it again.

[Mace]

Sure they did but they also performed. How many teams consistently win year in and year without their QB performing.

I agree, but we're into a new passing age now. A lot of them consistently win, then flunk the playoffs. I don't know why, suspect it comes down to defense against the other performing QB.

[WagonCircler]

try sticking your head up you ass and see how it fits. .

Scarface!! Haha.

[pmoon6]

You must have a lot of broken mirrors in your house then. From punching them every morning.Thank you, Mr. Helper.

Anything else you'd like to weigh in on?

Oh, and my mirrors don't break from hitting them.

[swiper]

Thank you, Mr. Helper.

Anything else you'd like to weigh in on?

Oh, and my mirrors don't break from hitting them.

That's because you punch like a pussy most likely.

[pmoon6]

That's because you punch like a pussy most likely.Maybe so, but my aim is dead on.

[swiper]

Must be why you have so many guns.

[YardRat]

So it's not a fact that the Cowboys didn't win a Superbowl before Staubach came along? It's not a fact that McMahon had his best season in 1985? It's not a fact that the Ravens changed QBs because with Banks they weren't good enough? It's not a fact that Theismann was a perennial pro-bowler and one of the top QBs of that time period? It's not a fact that Bradshaw besides 74, went to the pro-bowl the other 3 times the Steelers won the SB? It's not a fact that even in 1994 with the best defense in football and an o-line who didn't give up sacks the Browns didn't win?

All of those are facts, there is no spin.

Name me a team besides the 74 Steelers who won a Superbowl with terrible QB play.

Since the advent of the forward pass, QB play has always been the main condition of success in the NFL with very few exceptions. Even back when the Browns were dominating the NFL in the 50s and the Packers were dominating the NFL in the 60s.

McMahon had the benefit of one of the greatest defenses, and greatest RBs of all time. His season was an anomaly for him, not the rule. See Trent Dilfer.
Banks was hurt in Baltimore I believe, not replaced.
Theismann...Gibbs could win regardless of who was behind center. Because he had a defense, and an offensive line. If QB mattered that much, Williams and Rypien wouldn't be sportin' rings.
Bradshaw only went to the pro bowl 3 times, and if he was the key he wouldv'e went in seasons the defense and Harris weren't carrying him to titles.
The Browns organization sucks worse than Buffalo...'nuff said there.

[stuckincincy]

Maybe so, but my aim is dead on.

That's right. All David needed was a well-placed rock.

[pmoon6]

Must be why you have so many guns.Each one has a purpose.

BTW, I don't think you got my little joke. I don't have to punch a mirror to have it break. It breaks when I look into it because I'm so.....

See if you can come up with the last word.

It's called self deprecating humor.

[pmoon6]

McMahon had the benefit of one of the greatest defenses, and greatest RBs of all time. His season was an anomaly for him, not the rule. See Trent Dilfer.
Banks was hurt in Baltimore I believe, not replaced.
Theismann...Gibbs could win regardless of who was behind center. Because he had a defense, and an offensive line. If QB mattered that much, Williams and Rypien wouldn't be sportin' rings.
Bradshaw only went to the pro bowl 3 times, and if he was the key he wouldv'e went in seasons the defense and Harris weren't carrying him to titles.
The Browns organization sucks worse than Buffalo...'nuff said there.Trying to reason with Pinkie is like trying to scrape dog poop of your shoes. No matter how much effort you still have a small piece that stays.

[Mr. Pink]

McMahon had the benefit of one of the greatest defenses, and greatest RBs of all time. His season was an anomaly for him, not the rule. See Trent Dilfer.
Banks was hurt in Baltimore I believe, not replaced.
Theismann...Gibbs could win regardless of who was behind center. Because he had a defense, and an offensive line. If QB mattered that much, Williams and Rypien wouldn't be sportin' rings.
Bradshaw only went to the pro bowl 3 times, and if he was the key he wouldv'e went in seasons the defense and Harris weren't carrying him to titles.
The Browns organization sucks worse than Buffalo...'nuff said there.

McMahon had his best season the year they won the Superbowl. There's no disputing it.

Banks was benched, not injured because under Banks the Ravens were unable to score.

Gibbs could win with anyone? Why didn't he win with Mark Brunell and Patrick Ramsey?

Bradshaw threw for almost 4000 yards in 1979 and lead the NFL in TD passes in 78. And for a team who's rushing attack carried them, they were 14th in rushing in 78.

- - - Updated - - -


Trying to reason with Pinkie is like trying to scrape dog poop of your shoes. No matter how much effort you still have a small piece that stays.

Run along old man, you were already proven wrong on the Jim Brown point. But carry on with the insults cuz it's all you got.

[TacklingDummy]

Theismann...Gibbs could win regardless of who was behind center. Because he had a defense, and an offensive line. If QB mattered that much, Williams and Rypien wouldn't be sportin' rings.
And most importantly a passing game. In his Super Bowl years the Redskins passing game was ranked in...

1982: 12th in yards, 8th in TD passes
1987: 4th in yards, 4th in TD passes
1991: 5th in yards, 2nd TD passes

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Love to hear Bills fans criticizing other teams QBs who actually TOOK them into the play-offs.

Didn't your mother ever tell you about people who live in glass houses casting stones?

what's a playoff?

[pmoon6]

Pooor Pinkie, he gets insulted, says that's all you got, and claims victory. :rofl:

Yes Pinkie, I will run along because it's an exercise in futility to argue with the mentally challenged.

BTW, I did make a donation to your school district so they wouldn't cut funding for the short bus program.

Heaven forbid you would have to ride with the normal kids and get picked on.