The Buffalo Bills "twin team" The Seattle Seahawks.

[blackonyx89]

They have the 12th Man like we do and they have a former Bills RB Marshawn Lynch. Their fan base is as rabid as ours and when I watch them play, they remind me of the 90's Bills (bring those good old days back, please!) only they have a stronger defense, minus the K-Gun, but a very good QB in Russell Wilson. Are they comparable? Discuss!

[SpikedLemonade]

Our owner is so unique there is no comparable.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Jesus I'm so sick of hearing about how loud and amazing Seattle fans are. I'm pretty sure their stadium was specifically designed to amplify crowd noise. There is absolutely no way in hell a bunch of granola eating yuppies from Seattle of all places would be more rabid and loud than a bunch of drunks from Buffalo/Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Philly/Boston.

[The Jokeman]

They have the 12th Man like we do and they have a former Bills RB Marshawn Lynch. Their fan base is as rabid as ours and when I watch them play, they remind me of the 90's Bills (bring those good old days back, please!) only they have a stronger defense, minus the K-Gun, but a very good QB in Russell Wilson. Are they comparable? Discuss!

The Seahawks have what's considered an elite defense right now as they seem to do very well at stopping opposing offenses at will. This is the type of defense I want the Bills to have in 2014 and calling for us to re-sign Byrd, hopefully draft an above average LB (like Mack or Mosley) and find a veteran nickel/dime CB (Kelvin Hayden's an UFA I'd target).

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Jesus I'm so sick of hearing about how loud and amazing Seattle fans are. I'm pretty sure their stadium was specifically designed to amplify crowd noise. There is absolutely no way in hell a bunch of granola eating yuppies from Seattle of all places would be more rabid and loud than a bunch of drunks from Buffalo/Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Philly/Boston.

They did.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The Seahawks have what's considered an elite defense right now as they seem to do very well at stopping opposing offenses at will. This is the type of defense I want the Bills to have in 2014 and calling for us to re-sign Byrd, hopefully draft an above average LB (like Mack or Mosley) and find a veteran nickel/dime CB (Kelvin Hayden's an UFA I'd target).

It helps when you are able to find elite players from nowhere. Browner came from the CFL, Sherman in the 5th, Chancellor in the 5th, etc

Of course, it could be the Adderall too

[YardRat]

This Seahawk team couldn't be further on the other end of the spectrum compared to those Bills' teams...they are more like the NY Giants of that era.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Following the Niners formula for defense wouldn't be a bad idea. We already have the DB's and D-line, we just need a couple more linebackers.

[The Jokeman]

Following the Niners formula for defense wouldn't be a bad idea. We already have the DB's and D-line, we just need a couple more linebackers.

The 49ers also took a lot of work on their O-line with guys like Staley, Iputi and Davis were all 1st Round picks.

[cookie G]

It helps when you are able to find elite players from nowhere. Browner came from the CFL, Sherman in the 5th, Chancellor in the 5th, etc

Of course, it could be the Adderall too

That might be the only similarity between Seattle and the SB era Bills.

Hull and Bentley from the USFL;
McKellar and Ballard in the late rounds..
Andre Reed in the 4th

that's not to mention players who played huge roles who were mid-late round/waiver wires picks;

Carlton Bailey
Jamie Mueller
Leon Seals
Jeff Wright
Mark Kelso

That was over a 4 year period.

Polian was the architect of the Super Bowl era, but John Butler was an incredible chief engineer.



The modern era hangs it hat on Peters..who was 10 years ago (and long gone), Fred Jackson was 8 years ago and Stevie Johnson was 6 years ago..

It isn't luck..it is an eye for talent.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That might be the only similarity between Seattle and the SB era Bills.

Hull and Bentley from the USFL;
McKellar and Ballard in the late rounds..
Andre Reed in the 4th

that's not to mention players who played huge roles who were mid-late round/waiver wires picks;

Carlton Bailey
Jamie Mueller
Leon Seals
Jeff Wright
Mark Kelso

That was over a 4 year period.

Polian was the architect of the Super Bowl era, but John Butler was an incredible chief engineer.



The modern era hangs it hat on Peters..who was 10 years ago (and long gone), Fred Jackson was 8 years ago and Stevie Johnson was 6 years ago..

It isn't luck..it is an eye for talent.

I didn't say it was luck, and Seattle's eye for talent is really a triumph of analytics IMO. They found undervalued guys all over the place. Browner and Sherman were too big. Wilson was too small. Lynch had too many red flags. Interestingly considering their rep as an old school grinder football team, they are really on the cutting edge in a lot of ways.

[SpikedLemonade]

The 49ers also took a lot of work on their O-line with guys like Staley, Iputi and Davis were all 1st Round picks.

Oh the Bills are smarter than other NFL teams and they can get any fat slobs to play on the OL.

[WagonCircler]

Jesus I'm so sick of hearing about how loud and amazing Seattle fans are. I'm pretty sure their stadium was specifically designed to amplify crowd noise. There is absolutely no way in hell a bunch of granola eating yuppies from Seattle of all places would be more rabid and loud than a bunch of drunks from Buffalo/Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Philly/Boston.

This might be my favorite post of the year.

[THATHURMANATOR]

They have the 12th Man like we do and they have a former Bills RB Marshawn Lynch. Their fan base is as rabid as ours and when I watch them play, they remind me of the 90's Bills (bring those good old days back, please!) only they have a stronger defense, minus the K-Gun, but a very good QB in Russell Wilson. Are they comparable? Discuss!
They remind me nothing of the 90s Bills.

Great team but totally ground and pound. Very boring.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That might be the only similarity between Seattle and the SB era Bills.

Hull and Bentley from the USFL;
McKellar and Ballard in the late rounds..
Andre Reed in the 4th

that's not to mention players who played huge roles who were mid-late round/waiver wires picks;

Carlton Bailey
Jamie Mueller
Leon Seals
Jeff Wright
Mark Kelso

That was over a 4 year period.

Polian was the architect of the Super Bowl era, but John Butler was an incredible chief engineer.



The modern era hangs it hat on Peters..who was 10 years ago (and long gone), Fred Jackson was 8 years ago and Stevie Johnson was 6 years ago..

It isn't luck..it is an eye for talent.
I think Butler and Polian definitely had eye for talent but the below players sucked in my opinion.

Carlton Bailey - Decent but wasn't anything special
Jamie Mueller - I don't remember him doing anything of importance
Leon Seals - Dr. Sack never had any sacks
Jeff Wright - Undersized and constantly blown off the ball. Good in Tecmo Super Bowl
Mark Kelso - One of the worst players in history of team. Beneficiary of Ints when QBs where throwing balls away and couldn't believe he was so far back. On a side note I like him as a color man on WGR.

Why not talk about the players that mattered?

Kelly
Bruce
Thurman
Bennett in that trade
Lofton trade
Odomes
Leanord Smith Trade
Talley
Wolford
Ritcher
Beebe

[Night Train]

Their D, overall, is far better than our 90's D. We had our stars but always a few holes.

Kelly was far more explosive a QB than game manager Wilson.

Not much in common.

[Mace]

This Seahawk team couldn't be further on the other end of the spectrum compared to those Bills' teams...they are more like the NY Giants of that era.

Honestly, yes. I dislike Seattle, but they remind me of the relentlessly solid teams that beat us, because we always stopped doing what got us there and tried inadequately to play their game.

Seattle looks really unstoppable at this point, not for any one reason either.

[Lone Stranger]

San Francisco has the best balance on both sides of the ball.

[Jry44]

They have the 12th Man like we do and they have a former Bills RB Marshawn Lynch. Their fan base is as rabid as ours and when I watch them play, they remind me of the 90's Bills (bring those good old days back, please!) only they have a stronger defense, minus the K-Gun, but a very good QB in Russell Wilson. Are they comparable? Discuss!

13-3, NFC West Champs and a game away from the Superbowl compared to 6-10 and rebuilding since 1999? No, there's no comparison at all...

[Mace]

San Francisco has the best balance on both sides of the ball.

I absolutely want to think so, I really don't like Pete Carroll. If they get past Seattle though, I'll feel more convinced. Seattle is looking scary efficient.

[cookie G]

I think Butler and Polian definitely had eye for talent but the below players sucked in my opinion. The ones below were role players..I never claimed they were hall of Famers.

Carlton Bailey - Decent but wasn't anything special Probably did play his best ball with the Giants
Jamie Mueller - I don't remember him doing anything of importance That's because he was a blocking back. When healthy..one of the best in the league, at a time when teams actually used a fullback. Favorably comparable to Moose Johnson. It was actually a treat to watch him take on a LB, especially aroudn the goalline. But that's for people who actually like to watch blocking
Leon Seals - Dr. Sack never had any sacks
Jeff Wright - Undersized and constantly blown off the ball. Good in Tecmo Super Bowl Never said he was a HOF or even a Pro Bowler..but he did have over 70 tackles in 3 of his full seasons here. That's about 20 less per season that guys like Conlan and Talley would normally make. And that was from the nose tackle position.

3 of the front 7 are guys you claimed sucked, yet the Bills' Run D didn't give up more than 4.0 ypc in those years. The Bills haven't had a season in which they gave up less than 4.0 yards a carry in 10 years. In fact, they've usually give up a lot more.
Mark Kelso - One of the worst players in history of team. Beneficiary of Ints when QBs where throwing balls away and couldn't believe he was so far back. On a side note I like him as a color man on WGR. And yet, over about the same period of time, he has as many ints as the guy some want to make the 2nd highest paid player in Bills' history..an "elite" player we just can't do without. He wasn't great against the run...but far better than the guy we have there now.



Why not talk about the players that mattered?

Kelly
Bruce
Thurman
Bennett in that trade
Lofton trade
Odomes
Leanord Smith Trade
Talley
Wolford
Ritcher
Beebe

Because...Illuminatus was talking about the players the Seahawks got out of nowhere. And I mentioned the players the Bills got out of nowhere.

These were the ones I mentioned AFTER Reed, Hull, Ballard and, McKellar.

I'd love to get the production with players from out of nowhere today.

[cookie G]

I didn't say it was luck, and Seattle's eye for talent is really a triumph of analytics IMO. They found undervalued guys all over the place. Browner and Sherman were too big. Wilson was too small. Lynch had too many red flags. Interestingly considering their rep as an old school grinder football team, they are really on the cutting edge in a lot of ways.

agreed.

[Beebe's Kid]

Because...Illuminatus was talking about the players the Seahawks got out of nowhere. And I mentioned the players the Bills got out of nowhere.

These were the ones I mentioned AFTER Reed, Hull, Ballard and, McKellar.

I'd love to get the production with players from out of nowhere today.

Kelso was better agains the run than Byrd? I disagree with that sentiment. Nothing really to say other than I think that is an untrue assessment.

Also, the post about Seattle being a bunch of granola eating hippies that couldn't yell like the drunks in the Northeast...that is absurd. Most people that eat granola aren't the people that are packing the stadium. They find their own tens of thousands of people that can get obscenely drunk on Sunday afternoon and scream their faces off...that isn't really a unique feature of any NFL city. If teams are good, their fans scream really loud.

[DraftBoy]

Jesus I'm so sick of hearing about how loud and amazing Seattle fans are. I'm pretty sure their stadium was specifically designed to amplify crowd noise. There is absolutely no way in hell a bunch of granola eating yuppies from Seattle of all places would be more rabid and loud than a bunch of drunks from Buffalo/Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Philly/Boston.

Have you ever been there?

[TedMock]

Have you ever been there?

I have and it is very loud in there. Advantages of traveling for work. It was early December, Monday night, and they destroyed the Saints. It reminds me of what Buffalo's stadium used to be. The difference is they're good and we're not. When we had great teams, Rich Stadium was very loud and deafening on 3rd down. That is exactly what Seattle is now. Kansas City was like that when I went many years ago. Not sure how it is there now. Three loudest places (well, besides a Motley Crue concert) that I've ever been. Washington has over 90,000 seats and they don't come close. I'm told that in their hey-day at the old stadium is was very loud, but I haven't seen it here. Of course, like Buffalo, they have not been very good either.

[Mace]

Have you ever been there?

I have, it's entirely accurate. Have you ?

[gr8slayer]

They have the 12th Man like we do and they have a former Bills RB Marshawn Lynch. Their fan base is as rabid as ours and when I watch them play, they remind me of the 90's Bills (bring those good old days back, please!) only they have a stronger defense, minus the K-Gun, but a very good QB in Russell Wilson. Are they comparable? Discuss!
Every year there's news of the Bills struggling to sell out games, the Seahawks have sold out every game since 2003. Their fans also create seismic reactions on Sunday's. I don't know that anyone compares with Seahawks fans.

[Bunion]

Every year there's news of the Bills struggling to sell out games, the Seahawks have sold out every game since 2003. Their fans also create seismic reactions on Sunday's. I don't know that anyone compares with Seahawks fans.

Chiefs fans, if just by decibel level. They noise at their stadiums is more or less the same as standing next to a lit jet engine, and it's about 10 decibels away from permanent ear damage.

[Pinkerton Security]

Chiefs fans, if just by decibel level. They noise at their stadiums is more or less the same as standing next to a lit jet engine, and it's about 10 decibels away from permanent ear damage.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/03/seahawks-fans-noise-record-stadium_n_4375567.html

get with it!

[BillsFever21]

They have the 12th Man like we do and they have a former Bills RB Marshawn Lynch. Their fan base is as rabid as ours and when I watch them play, they remind me of the 90's Bills (bring those good old days back, please!) only they have a stronger defense, minus the K-Gun, but a very good QB in Russell Wilson. Are they comparable? Discuss!

Minus all of that and they are just like the Bills of the 1990's.

We either had to manufacture a sellout or didn't sellout more then half our our home games this season. The Seahawks are a great team that has actually made the playoffs multiple times since our last playoff game. Not much in common there either.

The only thing we currently have in common is we're both a smaller market by NFL standards and that they have our old 1st round starting RB that we traded to them for a bag of peanuts a few years after drafting him. Their current team definitely doesn't compare to our teams of the early 1990's. Complete different styles of play.

[Mouldsie]

They have our RB, the QB we should have, and possibly the coach we should have gone after

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Have you ever been there?

I have been there many times by far the loudest Stadium in the world.

But i agree its not so much the fans as it is the stadium they built out here it really is that loud...

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Every year there's news of the Bills struggling to sell out games, the Seahawks have sold out every game since 2003. Their fans also create seismic reactions on Sunday's. I don't know that anyone compares with Seahawks fans.

I have no doubt that if you put 68,000 Bills fans in the clink and gave them a reason to cheer it would be the same maybe even louder....

[BillsFever21]

They have our RB, the QB we should have, and possibly the coach we should have gone after

That's very true. But hey we have TJ Graham out of it so we're all set.

I guess if you look at it that way the Seahawks resemble part of the team we could've been but not our twins.

[pmoon6]

:rofl: "Bills' Fans".

[Jry44]

I have no doubt that if you put 68,000 Bills fans in the clink and gave them a reason to cheer it would be the same maybe even louder....

It definitely would be. Seattle's stadium is designed to be loud. I saw something on TV talking about the clam shell design of the stadium and the way the levels are built are disegned to direct the crowd noise down to the center of the field. So when people praise the Hawks fans for being loud I think it's more of an attribute to the designers.

[Jry44]

They have our RB, the QB we should have, and possibly the coach we should have gone after

How can you say should? I hindsight, yeah, it would have been a great pick. But by saying "should" however, you imply that the Bills were about to draft him only to have him snagged up on us.

Also too, Russel Wilson is a very talented player, I'm not disputing that by saying this, however he landed in the perfect situation is Seattle to have success as a very young player. He was drafted on to a team with enough talent for him to thrive much sooner than he could have on a team such as the Bills that was very limited in that area. Situation and system have a lot to do with a young players success.

[Mouldsie]

How can you say should? I hindsight, yeah, it would have been a great pick. But by saying "should" however, you imply that the Bills were about to draft him only to have him snagged up on us.

Also too, Russel Wilson is a very talented player, I'm not disputing that by saying this, however he landed in the perfect situation is Seattle to have success as a very young player. He was drafted on to a team with enough talent for him to thrive much sooner than he could have on a team such as the Bills that was very limited in that area. Situation and system have a lot to do with a young players success.
By should I am implying that we should have done it like Merk, myself and others were calling for since the offseason had begun

[pmoon6]

By should I am implying that we should have done it like Merk, myself and others were calling for since the offseason had begunHaHaHa. If only they would have listened to MEEEE!!!!!, we'd be in the Super Bowl!!!!

Just heads up, Mouldsie. Pete Carroll was never going to come to Buffalo and why would they want him anyway? He was unsuccessful with the Jets and the Patriots. But now, he has had success in Seattle and "That SHOULD have been our guy". OK, Sure.

I'm sure you noticed that Wilson looked like anything but a great QB yesterday. Seattle won because of their defense and running game.

[Mouldsie]

And a 4th down strike for a TD. That's one of the worst OL's in football, he certainly helped them win the game.


And yea if this team has listened to me over the years we'd have made the playoffs at least once by now, I'm 100% confident. Call it cocky IDC. I think this board as a whole would have fared better than this FO has over the last 15 years. It's pathetic

[TacklingDummy]

Just heads up, Mouldsie. Pete Carroll was never going to come to Buffalo and why would they want him anyway? He was unsuccessful with the Jets and the Patriots. But now, he has had success in Seattle and "That SHOULD have been our guy". OK, Sure.


1994 Jets: 6-10
1997 Pats: 10-6
1998 Pats: 9-7
1999 Pats: 8-8

51%

I'd take that lack of success over (insert Fewell, Gailey, Mularkey, Marrone, Williams, Jauron)...

2001: 3-13
2002: 8-8
2003: 6-10
2004: 9-7
2005: 5-11
2006: 7-9
2007: 7-9
2008: 7-9
2009: 6-10
2010: 4-12
2011: 6-10
2012: 6-10
2013: 6-10

38%

[pmoon6]

1994 Jets: 6-10
1997 Pats: 10-6
1998 Pats: 9-7
1999 Pats: 8-8

I'd take that lack of success over (insert Fewell, Gailey, Mularkey, Marrone, Williams, Jauron)...

2001: 3-13
2002: 8-8
2003: 6-10
2004: 9-7
2005: 5-11
2006: 7-9
2007: 7-9
2008: 7-9
2009: 6-10
2010: 4-12
2011: 6-10
2012: 6-10
2013: 6-10Whatever, Man. I think Carroll was the coach when Ron Winter delivered his famous "Just give it to them" line.

Also Carroll was just riding Parcells coattails in NE. That doesn't even count the fact that Pete Carroll probably would never even consider coaching in Buffalo when he basically had his pick of other teams due to his collegiate success.

Oh, and I'm well aware of the Buffalo Bills records dating back to the early '60's, so unless it gives you wood to post them, it is really unnecessary.

[TacklingDummy]

Oh, and I'm well aware of the Buffalo Bills records dating back to the early '60's, so unless it gives you wood to post them, it is really unnecessary.

I've noticed many of your posts have references to male genitals.

Carroll wood have came here if Ralph wasn't cheap.
It hurts Ralphs pocket less to pay Marrone $3 million a year to Carroll's $6.7.

[pmoon6]

I've noticed many of your posts have references to male genitals.Only because it seems most Bills' Fans don't have any. I figure I should give them a clue how the other half lives.

[JoeMama]

Thanks for posting our cumulative record.

We suck so bad.