Byrd ranked 14th as a "must sign" UFA

[X-Era]

The more interesting part is this:

14. Jairus Byrd (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12613/jairus-byrd), S, Buffalo Bills (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills): Byrd played the final 11 games this season after skipping the first five as an unhappy franchise player. "I think they like him a lot," one GM said, "but I would be surprised if he [was] hugely paid." One of the agents thought Byrd would get between $6.2 million and $7.5 million a year. The Bills were 15th in Total QBR allowed without Byrd and third after he reported.

Most are thinking 8-9 mill per... I mean that little? I can't see him signing for that cheap.

It's an insider article but I'll give the link anyways:

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mike-sando/post?id=6568

[better days]

In other words, almost half of the NFL has a player that they need to sign at a higher priority than the Bills need to sign Byrd.

I wonder how many of the 14 get signed.

I hope Byrd is one of them.

[Skooby]

Yeah he's a must sign at the right amount, they're low.

[ICRockets]

That would be ideal. If we can get him for under 9, I like it. Under 8, I love it.

[X-Era]

In other words, almost half of the NFL has a player that they need to sign at a higher priority than the Bills need to sign Byrd.

I wonder how many of the 14 get signed.

I hope Byrd is one of them.
No. I messed up the title. He's the 14th ranked UFA. I'll fix it

[TacklingDummy]

Im thinking we wont get a 1st for him. Damn, I really wanted to get EJ more weapons at WR and TE in the first round.

[Bill Cody]

The more interesting part is this:

14. Jairus Byrd (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12613/jairus-byrd), S, Buffalo Bills (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills): Byrd played the final 11 games this season after skipping the first five as an unhappy franchise player. "I think they like him a lot," one GM said, "but I would be surprised if he [was] hugely paid." One of the agents thought Byrd would get between $6.2 million and $7.5 million a year. The Bills were 15th in Total QBR allowed without Byrd and third after he reported.



Confused. Is that what he thinks Byrd will get from us or get on the open market? If it's the open market it does seem a bit low. Weren't there reports we offered him more than that last year? Where are the Byrd apologists and "something happened so the Bills must be wrong" contingent to straighten this out? Didn't we low ball Byrd?:question:

[Skooby]

Confused. Is that what he thinks Byrd will get from us or get on the open market? If it's the open market it does seem a bit low. Weren't there reports we offered him more than that last year? Where are the Byrd apologists and "something happened so the Bills must be wrong" contingent to straighten this out? Didn't we low ball Byrd?:question:

$7.5 M would of been a done deal, he want #1 money.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Confused. Is that what he thinks Byrd will get from us or get on the open market? If it's the open market it does seem a bit low. Weren't there reports we offered him more than that last year? Where are the Byrd apologists and "something happened so the Bills must be wrong" contingent to straighten this out? Didn't we low ball Byrd?:question:

The context of those quotes is hard to determine. I could see them meaning either Byrd's open market value or what those two thought he would get from Buffalo. If it's the former, I think its ridiculous. That's not even top 5 money and 6.5 isn't even top 10 money right now.

[stuckincincy]

$7.5 M would of been a done deal, he want #1 money.

Me want $7.5M. Me become Grenada citizen.

[coastal]

That would be ideal. If we can get him for under 9, I like it. Under 8, I love it.
Wtf do u care? It isn't your money and we have MORE than enough cap space.

the guy produces and makes our team better. Time to pay someone beyond their rookie contract that is like that.

pay him 9/year and be proud as an organization that we rewarded him.

[SpikedLemonade]

Wtf do u care? It isn't your money and we have MORE than enough cap space.

the guy produces and makes our team better. Time to pay someone beyond their rookie contract that is like that.

pay him 9/year and be proud as an organization that we rewarded him.

Well many Bills fans want to root for Ralph's wallet.

Paying Byrd $9M may not be possible given Ralph has them operating with an internal cap that is $20M below the real salary cap.

The real insult to our intelligence is how they did not take the cap hit on Fitz's contract last year when they were $20M under and instead moved it to this year so there is less to spend this year.

This team has no intentions to spend the kind of money it needs to compete.

The plan is to simply field a team until Ralph dies.

[coastal]

Dear Lord... fill in the blank.

[Bill Cody]

Dear Lord... fill in the blank.

Dear Lord....Byrd is Fool's Gold?

[BertSquirtgum]

Jarius Byrd is fools gold.

[coastal]

Wrong prayer dumb asses.

[BertSquirtgum]

Wrong prayer dumb asses.

Jarius Byrd is fools gold.

[Dr. Lecter]

Jarius Byrd is fools gold.


Not really.

Sign the guy.

[Downinfloflo]

I wonder what Earl Thomas is going to want when his contract is up.

[YardRat]

We can find a better fit for the defense, cheaper.

[The Jokeman]

I wonder what Earl Thomas is going to want when his contract is up.

Just whatever a top end player is going to look for, more than the last guy and as long as some owner is willing to pay it he will get it. That's where the mantra where Ralph is cheap comes from as more than not Ralph let's guys like Clements or Levitre or Pat Williams leave for the going rate and the Bills end up in the hole. As all too often we don't have the player inplace to replace the defacter or end up using a top draft pick to replace him where had we just played the guy and used the top draft pick to fill another hole we might see some improvement instead it seems like we're an an endless cycle of chasing our own tails.

[BertSquirtgum]

Jarius 'Fools gold' Byrd

[stuckincincy]

Byrd doesn't matter to me.

There are no "difference makers" on a club on the outs for 14 years. He'd be one of 20 or so I'd show the door.

[jdaltroy5]

We can find a better fit for the defense, cheaper.Ah, the Buffalo Bills mantra.

You should frame that and put it in Ralph's office.

[justasportsfan]

Show him Da Money!!!!!

[Downinfloflo]

Just whatever a top end player is going to look for, more than the last guy and as long as some owner is willing to pay it he will get it. That's where the mantra where Ralph is cheap comes from as more than not Ralph let's guys like Clements or Levitre or Pat Williams leave for the going rate and the Bills end up in the hole. As all too often we don't have the player inplace to replace the defacter or end up using a top draft pick to replace him where had we just played the guy and used the top draft pick to fill another hole we might see some improvement instead it seems like we're an an endless cycle of chasing our own tails.

Oh....I have no problem spending $9m of Ralphs money on Byrd.

[BillsFever21]

I want to keep Byrd but I'm not even worried about it anymore. The only way he will be in a Buffalo uniform next season is if we franchise him without trading him. I don't see the Bills dishing out the money it would take to sign him to a long-term contract.

[ICRockets]

Wtf do u care? It isn't your money and we have MORE than enough cap space.

the guy produces and makes our team better. Time to pay someone beyond their rookie contract that is like that.

pay him 9/year and be proud as an organization that we rewarded him.

I've already gone on record REPEATEDLY that I think we should keep him at whatever cost, dumbass. Pay the **** attention.

[BillsFever21]

It wouldn't hurt our cap one bit to extend Byrd. Basically the money we would save from releasing Kolb and Pears would pay for Byrd's salary in a new contract. Messing around with the cap calculator we could give him a 4 year deal worth 32 million and around 20 in guaranteed money and his cap number would be under 9 million until the last year on the contract. If it took a little more then that it's not like it would kill the cap. We would still be 23 million under after signing Byrd and releasing Pears and Kolb.

[YardRat]

Ah, the Buffalo Bills mantra.

You should frame that and put it in Ralph's office.

Listening to some of you, I think you assume it already is.

I'm actually starting to hope they do re-sign him at this point, just so in a season or two I can enjoy all of the "Ralph is cheap" / "But he spent money on Byrd" / "Well, when he spends, he spends it on the wrong players" conversations.

Byrd is way too slow. He hits like a grandma. He has average recognition skills.

An elite safety would excel in all three areas. The FS doesn't have to be a big hitter in this defense, so I can live with that. His inability to consistently read where the ball is going and instead put himself out of position to prevent big plays, and his plodding to attempt to make up ground is unacceptable. A good free safety can make up for one by excelling in the other, but Byrd doesn't excel at either. He is a much better fit in a cover 2, not cover 1. He is a liability to this defense as much as KW and Kiko are a liability against the run.

Williams can be relegated to situational duties. Kiko can be kicked outside. With Byrd, you have to live with it or upgrade. I prefer upgrade.

[X-Era]

Listening to some of you, I think you assume it already is.

I'm actually starting to hope they do re-sign him at this point, just so in a season or two I can enjoy all of the "Ralph is cheap" / "But he spent money on Byrd" / "Well, when he spends, he spends it on the wrong players" conversations.

Byrd is way too slow. He hits like a grandma. He has average recognition skills.

An elite safety would excel in all three areas. The FS doesn't have to be a big hitter in this defense, so I can live with that. His inability to consistently read where the ball is going and instead put himself out of position to prevent big plays, and his plodding to attempt to make up ground is unacceptable. A good free safety can make up for one by excelling in the other, but Byrd doesn't excel at either. He is a much better fit in a cover 2, not cover 1. He is a liability to this defense as much as KW and Kiko are a liability against the run.

Williams can be relegated to situational duties. Kiko can be kicked outside. With Byrd, you have to live with it or upgrade. I prefer upgrade.
How can we get an upgrade to Byrd without spending more than 8-9 mill or having to draft a new S in round 1 or 2?

I just want to build on what we already have, add play-making prospects and/or spend new money in other areas.

Levitre was an acceptable loss to me because the money seemed better spent elsewhere. But we really didn't spend the money elsewhere. Or at least we didn't spend it significantly enough.

If letting Byrd walk means we don't spend that 9 mill on a real play-maker that is a significant upgrade, we water down our talent.

And Whaley made the statement that he's in the business of collecting the best talent. I'm holding him to that.

[Dr. Lecter]

Way too slow????

If you want to call him overrated, that is one thing

Saying he is "way too slow" really kills your argument.

(as does the average recognition skills, but that is another discussion)

[coastal]

I've already gone on record REPEATEDLY that I think we should keep him at whatever cost, dumbass. Pay the **** attention.
I don't keep track of B-list posters.

[gr8slayer]

I've been going back-and-forth on this, and I think that the Bills need to finally do it right, and sign their star player. At some point, the Bills need to stop being the farm league for the rest of the NFL. Letting Byrd walk means that you'll have to go out and probably draft another S early. There are too many needs on the team to be letting good players go.

[jdaltroy5]

Listening to some of you, I think you assume it already is.

I'm actually starting to hope they do re-sign him at this point, just so in a season or two I can enjoy all of the "Ralph is cheap" / "But he spent money on Byrd" / "Well, when he spends, he spends it on the wrong players" conversations.

Byrd is way too slow. He hits like a grandma. He has average recognition skills.

An elite safety would excel in all three areas. The FS doesn't have to be a big hitter in this defense, so I can live with that. His inability to consistently read where the ball is going and instead put himself out of position to prevent big plays, and his plodding to attempt to make up ground is unacceptable. A good free safety can make up for one by excelling in the other, but Byrd doesn't excel at either. He is a much better fit in a cover 2, not cover 1. He is a liability to this defense as much as KW and Kiko are a liability against the run.

Williams can be relegated to situational duties. Kiko can be kicked outside. With Byrd, you have to live with it or upgrade. I prefer upgrade.Yeah, I know.

He's way too slow, can't stop the run, gets lucky interceptions, and if you don't include his rookie season or his forced fumbles, he only gets 3 picks per year.

That's why he's widely considered to be one of the top safeties in the game and routinely makes the pro bowl.

[gr8slayer]

I wish more of our players got "lucky" interceptions.
Yeah, I know.

He's way too slow, can't stop the run, gets lucky interceptions, and if you don't include his rookie season or his forced fumbles, he only gets 3 picks per year.

That's why he's widely considered to be one of the top safeties in the game and routinely makes the pro bowl.

[Spiderweb]

While YardRat may have been a bit harder on Byrd than I would have been, I do have to agree with Byrd lacking speed and recognition. Byrd can make plays, but his lack of speed and slow recognition too often has allowed the D to get burnt over the top. I see Byrd as a good to very good player overall, but not elite.

[Fixxxer]

Way too slow????

If you want to call him overrated, that is one thing

Saying he is "way too slow" really kills your argument.

(as does the average recognition skills, but that is another discussion)

I like Byrd and I hope we re-sign him this year but his speed is just average. He compensates it with smarts and understanding of the passing game, but he's not the greatest athlete.

Watch the Bucs long run TD and you see Bradham running and surpassing him while chasing the ball carrier.

Also watch in the Jags game, the Sanders TD, where Byrd can't recover his ground and misses a tackle in the flat. An elite S doesn't surrender that play. He's an above average talent that we should keep, but he's not elite.

[Dr. Lecter]

Average speed is fine.

That does not make him "way too slow"

[YardRat]

Byrd is way too slow for a cover 1 FS...he simply doesn't have the speed necessary to safety valve most of the deep field.

Jesus christ, his forty times barely beat Mario Williams and Kiko Alonso. He is absolutely the slowest safety on the team, and I haven't found one in the entire league that is slower, yet. Not done looking though, either. Standard test measurables aside, all you have to do is watch him plodding on the back side to see it.

It isn't a desirable attribute if your cover 1 FS can barely outrun a LBer or DE.

Byrd can be an excellent cover 2 safety, but if we're going to continue to run cover 1 75-80% of the time than the position needs to be upgraded, not overpaid for what wiil eventually become evident as more mediocrity.

[The Jokeman]

Byrd is way too slow for a cover 1 FS...he simply doesn't have the speed necessary to safety valve most of the deep field.

Jesus christ, his forty times barely beat Mario Williams and Kiko Alonso. He is absolutely the slowest safety on the team, and I haven't found one in the entire league that is slower, yet. Not done looking though, either. Standard test measurables aside, all you have to do is watch him plodding on the back side to see it.

It isn't a desirable attribute if your cover 1 FS can barely outrun a LBer or DE.

Byrd can be an excellent cover 2 safety, but if we're going to continue to run cover 1 75-80% of the time than the position needs to be upgraded, not overpaid for what wiil eventually become evident as more mediocrity.
and yet how do you explain that the Bills were 15th against the pass prior to Byrd return and then moved up to 3rd best when he came back? I know the return of a non clubbed Gilmore helped those numbers too but damn man stop trying to run what little talent we have to other teams just because they want a contract their worthy of. It feels like the whole Nate Clements situation all over again as fans get angry at a guy who leaves for greener pasture and we applaud when they fail with other teams yet wonder why our D start to struggle. The only valid arguments for not keeping Byrd is if we were tight against the cap and needed to use his cap number to help other needs yet with us being nearly $29M below the cap there's no reason we can't give Byrd the $9m he's seeking and add two or three UFAs to help the rest the team. And by UFAs I'm not counting Dan Carpenter in there. I'm hoping for Pitta (or a LB like Donald Butler/Brandon Spikes), WR James Jones and a nickel/dime CB (yes I know some will argue Robey played great as a rookie but so did Ron Brooks and where has he gone to?).

[X-Era]

Byrd is way too slow for a cover 1 FS...he simply doesn't have the speed necessary to safety valve most of the deep field.

Jesus christ, his forty times barely beat Mario Williams and Kiko Alonso. He is absolutely the slowest safety on the team, and I haven't found one in the entire league that is slower, yet. Not done looking though, either. Standard test measurables aside, all you have to do is watch him plodding on the back side to see it.

It isn't a desirable attribute if your cover 1 FS can barely outrun a LBer or DE.

Byrd can be an excellent cover 2 safety, but if we're going to continue to run cover 1 75-80% of the time than the position needs to be upgraded, not overpaid for what wiil eventually become evident as more mediocrity.I honestly don't remember his 40 times at all.

What I do seem to remember, and my memory sucks these days so I could be wrong, is that he was considered a tweener who may be able to play CB or S coming out of Oregon.

If that's true, and again it may not be, it lends to the notion that he has plenty of athleticism for the position.

Not to compare him to Aaron Williams, but I think Williams has really taken off as a S and may have always been a liability at CB.

I don't known his 40 time but I guess I feel like he has good athleticism for the position.

[YardRat]

Average speed is fine.

That does not make him "way too slow"

He is below average, and when coupled with average or below average recognition skills, it's a killer combination for cover 1.

Maybe part of his recognition issues were due to him constantly looking for the big money play to bank on, and he was over-playing on that chance. Well, that makes him a 'me-first' guy and adds just another reason not to re-sign him.

FS is probably the least important position in this defense. You need quality linemen to stuff the line and rush the passer. You need athletic LBers that can plug holes and fill gaps, cover a little, pass rush a little. Corners that can man-up. A SS that can play the run, pass, and blitz when asked. FS? Sit back, read the play, flow to the ball and be in position as a last resort.

Go back and look at how many times the defense got burnt for a big play because Byrd ended up not being able to limit the damage because he was out of position and/or didn't have the speed to close.

[The Jokeman]

I honestly don't remember his 40 times at all.

What I do seem to remember, and my memory sucks these days so I could be wrong, is that he was considered a tweener who may be able to play CB or S coming out of Oregon.

If that's true, and again it may not be, it lends to the notion that he has plenty of athleticism for the position.

Not to compare him to Aaron Williams, but I think Williams has really taken off as a S and may have always been a liability at CB.

I don't known his 40 time but I guess I feel like he has good athleticism for the position.
Byrd got a bad grade in the draft for a slow forty at 4.56 but there was speculation he might play CB in the pros and for a CB a 4.56 is slow. Yet if you judge the Safety draft class of 2013 http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/2/26/4033432/nfl-combine-results-2013safety-40-yard-dash-bench A 4.56 isn't a horrible time at all.

[Buffalogic]

Are we really trying to convince each other Byrd is slow and ineffective? Recognition skills? The guy is near the top in ints over last 3 years. His numbers speak for themselves. This is a guy who missed OTA's, training camp and the first however many games and yet he still has an impact to take us from 15 to 3. Even with the rust, the new system, the plantar fasciatis...The Byrd witch hunt is illogical.

[The Jokeman]

Are we really trying to convince each other Byrd is slow and ineffective? Recognition skills? The guy is near the top in ints over last 3 years. His numbers speak for themselves. This is a guy who missed OTA's, training camp and the first however many games and yet he still has an impact to take us from 15 to 3. Even with the rust, the new system, the plantar fasciatis...The Byrd witch hunt is illogical.

The only reason for the witch hunt is because of the thought is that Byrd "doesn't want to be here". Yet the truth is the only reason he (and others that have gone through this) don't want to be here is because our owner doesn't give them the money they want. I mean we ran Jason Peters and Nate Clements out of town after being Pro Bowl talent. Why? Well because they only wanted the going rate of what they deserved which other teams paid. Ultimately is Byrd worth the money? Nope but in today's NFL you need to pay your talent usually top dollar to keep it. I mean let's imagine that we some other team, Would we want to sign a Pro Bowl S who's been amongst the leaders in INTs since being drafted who's about to enter his prime? Hell yes, I just can't understand when Bills fans say they want to lose that.

[ICRockets]

I don't keep track of B-list posters.

Aww, come on champ. I know I use big words but I have faith you could keep up if you tried.

[YardRat]

Peters should have been paid. Clements wasn't worth what he wanted, and proved it after moving on.

[better days]

Peters should have been paid. Clements wasn't worth what he wanted, and proved it after moving on.

Well, I am happy with the Peters trade.

Wood will continue to be one of the best Centers in the NFL for a long time while Peters is injury prone with one foot on a banana peel & the other foot out the door.

[BertSquirtgum]

Are we really trying to convince each other Byrd is slow and ineffective? Recognition skills? The guy is near the top in ints over last 3 years. His numbers speak for themselves. This is a guy who missed OTA's, training camp and the first however many games and yet he still has an impact to take us from 15 to 3. Even with the rust, the new system, the plantar fasciatis...The Byrd witch hunt is illogical.

Yeeeeeaaah. It was Byrd that moved the Bills towards the top and not the fact that the Bills played worse teams in the second half of the season.

[Dr. Lecter]

He is below average, and when coupled with average or below average recognition skills, it's a killer combination for cover 1.

Maybe part of his recognition issues were due to him constantly looking for the big money play to bank on, and he was over-playing on that chance. Well, that makes him a 'me-first' guy and adds just another reason not to re-sign him.

FS is probably the least important position in this defense. You need quality linemen to stuff the line and rush the passer. You need athletic LBers that can plug holes and fill gaps, cover a little, pass rush a little. Corners that can man-up. A SS that can play the run, pass, and blitz when asked. FS? Sit back, read the play, flow to the ball and be in position as a last resort.

Go back and look at how many times the defense got burnt for a big play because Byrd ended up not being able to limit the damage because he was out of position and/or didn't have the speed to close.

Are you really trying to tell people that as a safety, Byrd is not even an average player? Because that is what your description says he is.

[YardRat]

Are you really trying to tell people that as a safety, Byrd is not even an average player? Because that is what your description says he is.

He is average, in this defense. His position is one of three that need to be upgraded to improve. As much as I love KW, and Kiko, there are upgrades necessary that involve them also. KW needs to be relegated to spot duty, and a power space eater needs to replace him on first and second downs. A bigger, stronger, MLB needs to be acquired and kick Kiko outside. A smarter, faster free safety needs to replace Byrd, he just doesn't fit a cover 1 shell.

[BuffaloRedleg]

We're just renting the same move over and over again, hoping that the ending will be different.

[Dr. Lecter]

He is average, in this defense. His position is one of three that need to be upgraded to improve. As much as I love KW, and Kiko, there are upgrades necessary that involve them also. KW needs to be relegated to spot duty, and a power space eater needs to replace him on first and second downs. A bigger, stronger, MLB needs to be acquired and kick Kiko outside. A smarter, faster free safety needs to replace Byrd, he just doesn't fit a cover 1 shell.
Then explain his 4 INTs in ten games?

[stuckincincy]

Then explain his 4 INTs in ten games?

He stands around picking his nose, when all of a sudden, a ball materializes in his vicinity? :jig:

[GingerP]

Then explain his 4 INTs in ten games?

He already did that, he says it was due to his being lucky. He was just standing out there and the opposing QB threw him the ball. He did no more work than standing there having terrible instincts, they could have put Moorman out there and achieved the same result.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, I am happy with the Peters trade.

Wood will continue to be one of the best Centers in the NFL for a long time while Peters is injury prone with one foot on a banana peel & the other foot out the door.Well if you're happy, ignorance must be bliss then.

Peters is injury prone, but Wood is one of the best Centers?

You do realize that this year was the first time that Wood has played an entire season right and Peters is a 5x All Pro right?

[jdaltroy5]

He is average, in this defense. His position is one of three that need to be upgraded to improve. As much as I love KW, and Kiko, there are upgrades necessary that involve them also. KW needs to be relegated to spot duty, and a power space eater needs to replace him on first and second downs. A bigger, stronger, MLB needs to be acquired and kick Kiko outside. A smarter, faster free safety needs to replace Byrd, he just doesn't fit a cover 1 shell.So, let me get this straight.

Upgrades are needed for three of our top defenders?

Right. Solid credibility.

[better days]

Well if you're happy, ignorance must be bliss then.

Peters is injury prone, but Wood is one of the best Centers?

You do realize that this year was the first time that Wood has played an entire season right and Peters is a 5x All Pro right?


Yes, Peters has had some good years, but those are behind him, he isn't getting any better, just older.

And 2014 is the last year of his contract with the Eagles.

And hell yes, Wood is one of the best Centers.

[jdaltroy5]

Yes, Peters has had some good years, but those are behind him, he isn't getting any better, just older.

And 2014 is the last year of his contract with the Eagles.

And hell yes, Wood is one of the best Centers.
Peters was a first team all pro this season.

Wood was ranked 11th in the league for Centers by PFF.

I like Wood, but he's a borderline top ten C when healthy and nothing more.

[EDS]

Byrd got a bad grade in the draft for a slow forty at 4.56 but there was speculation he might play CB in the pros and for a CB a 4.56 is slow. Yet if you judge the Safety draft class of 2013 http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/2/26/4033432/nfl-combine-results-2013safety-40-yard-dash-bench A 4.56 isn't a horrible time at all.

I would also point out that both Aaron Williams and Da'Norris Searcy ran 4.56 forties at the 2011 NFL combine. So I guess we need to replace them as well?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

So, let me get this straight.

Upgrades are needed for three of our top defenders?

Right. Solid credibility.

Two multiple pro bowlers and the DROTY and those are the guys that need an upgrade.

[EDS]

Two multiple pro bowlers and the DROTY and those are the guys that need an upgrade.

Correct. Seriously, how hard could those positions be to upgrade?

[GingerP]

Correct. Seriously, how hard could those positions be to upgrade?

There are many HOF'ers out there every year for teams to sign, they can bring in one of them.

[gr8slayer]

Man, if being a first team all-pro is your best years being behind you, I'll take that.
Yes, Peters has had some good years, but those are behind him, he isn't getting any better, just older.

And 2014 is the last year of his contract with the Eagles.

And hell yes, Wood is one of the best Centers.

[BillsFever21]

Then explain his 4 INTs in ten games?

Well he may have had a bad game or some plays so he isn't very good and needs replaced. He didn't need to run 50 yards across the field and jump 5 feet in the air for the interceptions. Then the other 4 years of being a turnover machine was just all luck too. He must be paying off the opposing QB's to help pad his stats. In return he will give them some money when he gets his big payday from it. :rolleyes:

[better days]

Man, if being a first team all-pro is your best years being behind you, I'll take that.

I didn't really watch the Eagles this year, but the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

MANY players are Pro Bowl that don't deserve it.

IF Peters still has a lot left, the Eagles should extend him this off season.

[YardRat]

Then explain his 4 INTs in ten games?

3 of them were thrown right at him by rookie QB's...one (Pittsburgh) was a great play. Leonard and Kiko both had 4 int's also, doesn't mean they are the right fit to play cover 1 FS.


So, let me get this straight.

Upgrades are needed for three of our top defenders?

Right. Solid credibility.

Yes. If you don't see that KW and Kiko are part of the problem stopping the run, watch more closely. Doesn't mean they aren't good players...doesn't mean I want them off of the team...but, if you think this defense wouldn't be better overall, and especially stouter against the run with more muscle and less finesse up the middle I just can't help you.

[EDS]

I didn't really watch the Eagles this year, but the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

MANY players are Pro Bowl that don't deserve it.

IF Peters still has a lot left, the Eagles should extend him this off season.

Probably insignificant that LaShon McCoy led the league in rushing (as did the team as a whole), were second in the NFL in yards per game, and 4th in points per game, all while dealing with a rookie head coach and inexperienced second year QB . . .

[YardRat]

Funny how the same posters that refuse to see weaknesses and how they should be upgraded, and are railing to keep one particular player even though he doesn't have the skill set for the base defense, are the same ones that ***** about having to live with mediocrity.

A strong DT + a strong MLB + putting KW in situations that he excels at + moving Kiko outside + having a FS with speed and decent play recognition skills would = a truly dominant defense.

Let go of the emotion, and look at the situation objectively and pragmatically.

[YardRat]

I would also point out that both Aaron Williams and Da'Norris Searcy ran 4.56 forties at the 2011 NFL combine. So I guess we need to replace them as well?

You're comparing Byrd's fastest time with Williams' and Searcy's average...at least try to be a little bit honest. If you want to use Byrd's fastest time, use Williams' 4.4 and Searcy's 4.46.

Also, neither one of them are being asked to fulfill the fulltime c1 FS position.

[EDS]

You're comparing Byrd's fastest time with Williams' and Searcy's average...at least try to be a little bit honest. If you want to use Byrd's fastest time, use Williams' 4.4 and Searcy's 4.46.

Also, neither one of them are being asked to fulfill the fulltime c1 FS position.

If Byrd leaves who fills that role?

[Dr. Lecter]

3 of them were thrown right at him by rookie QB's...one (Pittsburgh) was a great play. Leonard and Kiko both had 4 int's also, doesn't mean they are the right fit to play cover 1 FS.





Well, they also did not do it in 10 games. As for the rookie QB excuse, perhaps part of it was him knowing where to be.

There is also the consideration that he makes plays year after year. Last year, his plays basically won or sealed games against Arizona and Miami.


The thing is, the Bills do not have playmakers on defense. He makes plays. Creates turnovers. Something the really good defenses need.

At some point this team needs to make a statement and sign a very good player that they developed. They let Peters go. They let Levitre go.
Change the culture the way it really needs to be changed and sign Byrd. He is not Derrick Dockery or Chris Kelsay.

Sign the guy. Tell the rest of the league that this team wants to compete

[Dr. Lecter]

I didn't really watch the Eagles this year, but the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

MANY players are Pro Bowl that don't deserve it.

IF Peters still has a lot left, the Eagles should extend him this off season.

He said All-pro. Not the Pro Bowl

Peters is still one of the best LTs in the NFL. Letting him go was very stupid

[YardRat]

Well, they also did not do it in 10 games.

Byrd (55.4% of total plays) and Leonard (53.5%)played virtually the same amount of time...obviously Byrd actually played more, but the difference is negligible.


As for the rookie QB excuse, perhaps part of it was him knowing where to be.

I'd rather he 'knew where to be' against vets, not first-timers.


There is also the consideration that he makes plays year after year. Last year, his plays basically won or sealed games against Arizona and Miami.

He's been in cover 2 his entire career, save the last 10 games. He's not there anymore, and that's the point.


The thing is, the Bills do not have playmakers on defense. He makes plays. Creates turnovers. Something the really good defenses need.

Sure they do...more than they have had in the past. Unless, of course you want to credit Byrd for all of the sacks, turnovers, third-down stops, etc.


At some point this team needs to make a statement and sign a very good player that they developed. They let Peters go. They let Levitre go.
Change the culture the way it really needs to be changed and sign Byrd. He is not Derrick Dockery or Chris Kelsay.


He isn't Dockery, but in this defense he's damn close to Kelsay. Change for the sake of change is ignorant. Want to make a statement? Don't overpay a over-hyped FS that doesn't fit the defense, and get a better FS for the cover 1.


Sign the guy. Tell the rest of the league that this team wants to compete

Paying Byrd will do more harm to the team's potential to become more competitive than it will good.

Unless you're OK with watching him huffing and puffing trying to catch up to RB's that broke through the front seven or WR's on the outside.

Want to make a statement? How about this..."**** you if you think we're paying you top dollar when you bailed on the team early, bailed on the team in the last game, and run like my grandmother."

[BertSquirtgum]

Byrd is Fool's gold Bills fans. He doesn't deserve more than 8 million a year. I couldn't care less whether they sign him or don't.

[gr8slayer]

I watched every game, and he dominated, as he always has. The Pro Bowl may be a popularity contest, but being a first team all-pro means you were the best of the best. He's now made it multiple times, further proving that the Bills screwed up. It's okay to admit when they F up.
I didn't really watch the Eagles this year, but the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

MANY players are Pro Bowl that don't deserve it.

IF Peters still has a lot left, the Eagles should extend him this off season.

[BertSquirtgum]

Bills definitely made a mistake not signing Peters

[Mouldsie]

Byrd can be replaced quite easily, just draft the next Earl Thomas, the only FS even comparable to Jairus!

[Beebe's Kid]

He is average, in this defense. His position is one of three that need to be upgraded to improve. As much as I love KW, and Kiko, there are upgrades necessary that involve them also. KW needs to be relegated to spot duty, and a power space eater needs to replace him on first and second downs. A bigger, stronger, MLB needs to be acquired and kick Kiko outside. A smarter, faster free safety needs to replace Byrd, he just doesn't fit a cover 1 shell.

Yes. Thank you. That is my favorite this year. It is kind of like "stopgap" was a few years back.

Let Byrd go, kick Kiko outside, and work on EJ's footwork...I love it when a plan comes together.

[Beebe's Kid]

The fact that signing Byrd is even an argument is mind boggling to me. The arguments are weak, and fall flat. Byrd is an elite safety. That should make you happy...but it doesn't.

Why not?

You are clearly not seeing the same thing on the field as the rest of the world. Statistically, and in his accolades, Byrd is elite. He is the real deal, and you want to upgrade? What are the chances?

The only way you can be that sure about anything you are saying is that you were hurt when the rumors circulated. You are flying in the face of what everybody sees. To argue he is not good is disingenuous at best.

Money, okay, but his talent? You are disqualified from playing. And the money argument is DOA.

Something might happen, and he gets hurt or something, but to say that this is a bad signing now is ludicrous.

Bills fans are just so used to looking at holes, that some can't see when they are filled.

[Beebe's Kid]

And to say that you don't care one way or another is just being a pussy. The inability to take a position on this is not as admirable as you make it sound.

I can't believe I see people saying they would trade Byrd for another shot at TJ Graham. Think about what you are saying when you want draft picks. You want to play the lottery, and you want a shiny new toy...you don't care that the odds are stacked against you.

I am sure that if he gets his money, he'll say something nice about Buffalo, so you can get that good feeling that he wants to be here. Then you can get his jersey...

I can't believe that people are more surprised that the Bills drafted and hit on Byrd. That is a rare occurrence round these parts. I wouldn't try my luck, and certainly not if I was just going to let the real good ones go all of the time.

[YardRat]

The fact that signing Byrd is even an argument is mind boggling to me. The arguments are weak, and fall flat. Byrd is an elite safety. That should make you happy...but it doesn't.

Why not?

You are clearly not seeing the same thing on the field as the rest of the world. Statistically, and in his accolades, Byrd is elite. He is the real deal, and you want to upgrade? What are the chances?

The only way you can be that sure about anything you are saying is that you were hurt when the rumors circulated. You are flying in the face of what everybody sees. To argue he is not good is disingenuous at best.

Money, okay, but his talent? You are disqualified from playing. And the money argument is DOA.

Something might happen, and he gets hurt or something, but to say that this is a bad signing now is ludicrous.

Bills fans are just so used to looking at holes, that some can't see when they are filled.

Byrd has made exactly one play this past season that could be called 'elite', against many that show he doesn't have the recognition skills or speed to play C1 FS effectively. He didn't do anything 'more special' than any other safety on the team.

To ignore this defenses issues just because of a man-crush on certain players, or desperation to re-sign one that was drafted and didn't turn out to be a bust pc of **** is simply settling in to what most ***** about...rewarding mediocrity.

[jdaltroy5]

Funny how the same posters that refuse to see weaknesses and how they should be upgraded, and are railing to keep one particular player even though he doesn't have the skill set for the base defense, are the same ones that ***** about having to live with mediocrity.

A strong DT + a strong MLB + putting KW in situations that he excels at + moving Kiko outside + having a FS with speed and decent play recognition skills would = a truly dominant defense.

Let go of the emotion, and look at the situation objectively and pragmatically.Rather than moving our best players around to fit a defense, why don't we design a defense around our best players?

[jdaltroy5]

Byrd can be replaced quite easily, just draft the next Earl Thomas, the only FS even comparable to Jairus!Did you see Thomas get burned for a TD yesterday?

Clearly he is slow, has poor recognition skills and is mostly lucky.

Does not deserve more than 4 mil per year.

[pmoon6]

Rather than moving our best players around to fit a defense, why don't we design a defense around our best players?What defensive scheme would Jairus Byrd play in to maximize his talents? Do you really think he as good as either Seattle safety?

The answer is that there is no defensive scheme where the FS is a focal point except to play centerfield. Do you think bringing Byrd up on the safety blitz occasionally would do that?

[jdaltroy5]

What defensive scheme would Jairus Byrd play in to maximize his talents? Do you really think he as good as either Seattle safety?

The answer is that there is no defensive scheme where the FS is a focal point except to play centerfield. Do you think bringing Byrd up on the safety blitz occasionally would do that?I don't think he's as good as Earl Thomas, but I think Earl Thomas is the best safety in the game.

And I didn't say that we should design a defense around Byrd, I was commenting on the fact that Yardrat said that Kiko, KW, and Byrd don't really fit this defense.

Those are 3 of our top 5 defenders (if you throw in Mario and Dareus). Rather than moving them around to fit the defense, why not design the defense around our strengths?

[pmoon6]

I don't think he's as good as Earl Thomas, but I think Earl Thomas is the best safety in the game.

And I didn't say that we should design a defense around Byrd, I was commenting on the fact that Yardrat said that Kiko, KW, and Byrd don't really fit this defense.

Those are 3 of our top 5 defenders (if you throw in Mario and Dareus). Rather than moving them around to fit the defense, why not design the defense around our strengths?I'm not sold on Kiko moving outside, which is what Yardie suggests. I think he is OK in the middle and with a really good OLB the defense can be very good. I don't know why Kyle Williams doesn't fit the defense and Byrd would fit in for the right price. Yard has one excellent point. Jairus Byrd isn't necessary to getting to where we want to go. OLB and another good corner will go a long way to making that happen.

[jdaltroy5]

I'm not sold on Kiko moving outside, which is what Yardie suggests. I think he is OK in the middle and with a really good OLB the defense can be very good. I don't know why Kyle Williams doesn't fit the defense and Byrd would fit in for the right price. Yard has one excellent point. Jairus Byrd isn't necessary to getting to where we want to go. OLB and another good corner will go a long way to making that happen.Absolutely, but why can't we get an upgrade at OLB and corner while also keeping Byrd?

Why does it have to be either/or?

[pmoon6]

Absolutely, but why can't we get an upgrade at OLB and corner while also keeping Byrd?

Why does it have to be either/or?We can and it doesn't, but I just don't see making Byrd the highest paid safety is a benefit. As has been discussed, ad infinitum, Jim Leonhard did just as good a job when Byrd was out. Do I want to keep JB, yes, but not at his asking price and his agent seems determined to stand his ground. Of course, we don't know what is truly going on. Maybe Byrd wants out of Buffalo and his ridiculous salary demand is their way of doing it.

[The Jokeman]

Byrd has made exactly one play this past season that could be called 'elite', against many that show he doesn't have the recognition skills or speed to play C1 FS effectively. He didn't do anything 'more special' than any other safety on the team.

To ignore this defenses issues just because of a man-crush on certain players, or desperation to re-sign one that was drafted and didn't turn out to be a bust pc of **** is simply settling in to what most ***** about...rewarding mediocrity.

and how many plays did Da'Norris Searcymake this season that you'd call elite?

[pmoon6]

and how many plays did Da'Norris Searcymake this season that you'd call elite?Just a heads up, Searcy plays the strong side, so the attempted comparison is meaningless.

[jdaltroy5]

We can and it doesn't, but I just don't see making Byrd the highest paid safety is a benefit. As has been discussed, ad infinitum, Jim Leonhard did just as good a job when Byrd was out. Do I want to keep JB, yes, but not at his asking price and his agent seems determined to stand his ground. Of course, we don't know what is truly going on. Maybe Byrd wants out of Buffalo and his ridiculous salary demand is their way of doing it.
Well statistically, our pass defense was average without him and elite with him.

I don't think he's worth 9.5 million, but I would tack on that extra amount and chalk it up to the cost of doing business as the Buffalo Bills.

I don't see much of a difference between 8 mil and 9.5 mil.

It's the same as losing a premiere player so that we can keep Arthur Moats.

[pmoon6]

Well statistically, our pass defense was average without him and elite with him.

I don't think he's worth 9.5 million, but I would tack on that extra amount and chalk it up to the cost of doing business as the Buffalo Bills.

I don't see much of a difference between 8 mil and 9.5 mil.

It's the same as losing a premiere player so that we can keep Arthur Moats.Well, I also think it's about the tactics that Byrd and his agent have employed. They are trying to "hold-up" the Bills. No organization takes too kindly to that.

As far as "statistically", it was a new defense and it's possible that the improvement was from all the players getting more comfortable. And you're laying the improvement at the feet a player whose position is the least important in a defense. The last Jets and Miami games defensively, were dictated by the front seven.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, I also think it's about the tactics that Byrd and his agent have employed. They are trying to "hold-up" the Bills. No organization takes too kindly to that.

As far as "statistically", it was a new defense and it's possible that the improvement was from all the players getting more comfortable. And you're laying the improvement at the feet a player whose position is the least important in a defense. The last Jets and Miami games defensively, were dictated by the front seven.It could have been a number of things. Gilmore was getting healthy and the D was starting to gel.

I'm not laying it directly on the feet of Byrd, but you can't deny that his return had a large impact.

I don't like his tactics either, but if I worked in a profession where I have a very limited amount of time to set myself up for the rest of my life, I can't say that the negotiations would be all sunshine and lollipops.

[pmoon6]

It could have been a number of things. Gilmore was getting healthy and the D was starting to gel.

I'm not laying it directly on the feet of Byrd, but you can't deny that his return had a large impact.

I don't like his tactics either, but if I worked in a profession where I have a very limited amount of time to set myself up for the rest of my life, I can't say that the negotiations would be all sunshine and lollipops.I understand the players position and I would do the same, get the best deal I could. I also understand managements' being a manager for a number of years. I hope a deal can be struck and even in the event that Byrd leaves, I would wish him well. All this "Bills' front office sucks" because players decide to go elsewhere is a bunch of crap. No one here knows what really goes on during a negotiation except what is leaked to the press. Both sides do it to serve themselves. The reactionaries glom on to whatever stance they take, player or organization. It is far more complicated, but blame has to be accessed, at least concerning NFL Fandom.

[YardRat]

Rather than moving our best players around to fit a defense, why don't we design a defense around our best players?

Might as well go back to a 43 Cover2 if you want to keep all three, and even then Kiko might be too light to hold up the middle.

We already have a defense designed around our best players, a couple of them are just filling roles that amplify their weaknesses instead of their strengths.

This team will always be weak against the run with KW manning the middle of the line full-time. It has been in every defense he's started in for this team, and that's not a coincidence. Put him in a situational role where his quicks can be best utilized, and get a space-eater for the basic down and distance. Kiko doesn't have the ass for the middle, and his speed and coverage skills would be better off on the outside, flip-flopping left and right. Byrd is the only one that doesn't fit, and I'd rather find a c1 FS than revert to an every down C2 just to cover his weaknesses.

[YardRat]

It could have been a number of things. Gilmore was getting healthy and the D was starting to gel.

I'm not laying it directly on the feet of Byrd, but you can't deny that his return had a large impact.

I don't like his tactics either, but if I worked in a profession where I have a very limited amount of time to set myself up for the rest of my life, I can't say that the negotiations would be all sunshine and lollipops.

Getting accustomed to playing a new defense against real competition and the early season decimation of the entire secondary had a helluva lot more to do with it than one guy, the FS to boot.

[jdaltroy5]

Getting accustomed to playing a new defense against real competition and the early season decimation of the entire secondary had a helluva lot more to do with it than one guy, the FS to boot.
Why? Because you say so?

[jdaltroy5]

Might as well go back to a 43 Cover2 if you want to keep all three, and even then Kiko might be too light to hold up the middle.

We already have a defense designed around our best players, a couple of them are just filling roles that amplify their weaknesses instead of their strengths.

This team will always be weak against the run with KW manning the middle of the line full-time. It has been in every defense he's started in for this team, and that's not a coincidence. Put him in a situational role where his quicks can be best utilized, and get a space-eater for the basic down and distance. Kiko doesn't have the ass for the middle, and his speed and coverage skills would be better off on the outside, flip-flopping left and right. Byrd is the only one that doesn't fit, and I'd rather find a c1 FS than revert to an every down C2 just to cover his weaknesses.Again, what weaknesses? We had the third ranked pass defense and he had 5 TOs while starting 9 games.

He seems to do pretty well in any defense.

[Mouldsie]

It's insanity

[JoeMama]

Jairus Byrd sucks!

Please stop adding top 3 players at their position at their respective position thanks.

I prefer Keion Carpenter.

[X-Era]

If he won't take Goldson money tag him at Goldson price and dangle him as trade bait.

Not taking Goldson money would be stupid of him.

Truth is I think the Bills are offering less than 8 per and I think Byrd would take 8 per. With the structure of the deal the 2014 cap hit could be 6 or less.

I think the Bills should go up to 8 per and I think Byrd should take it and very well might.

[kishoph]

We can and it doesn't, but I just don't see making Byrd the highest paid safety is a benefit. As has been discussed, ad infinitum, Jim Leonhard did just as good a job when Byrd was out. Do I want to keep JB, yes, but not at his asking price and his agent seems determined to stand his ground. Of course, we don't know what is truly going on. Maybe Byrd wants out of Buffalo and his ridiculous salary demand is their way of doing it.

My thoughts exactly, Byrd is an asset to this defense, but far from being irreplaceable. I do not believe Bryd being the top FS in the league, nor do I think he needs to be paid as the top FS in the league. I'm fine with him remaining a Bill (at the right price), but I think I'd rather he be moved if they can get something good for him, mainly because of the drama of last season. I really think he milked the Plantar Fasciitis thing and could of played much sooner than he did.

[X-Era]

My thoughts exactly, Byrd is an asset to this defense, but far from being irreplaceable. I do not believe Bryd being the top FS in the league, nor do I think he needs to be paid as the top FS in the league. I'm fine with him remaining a Bill (at the right price), but I think I'd rather he be moved if they can get something good for him, mainly because of the drama of last season. I really think he milked the Plantar Fasciitis thing and could of played much sooner than he did.So, I'd absolutely want something in return for him if we can't sign him long term.

But here's the thing.

If we trade him for an early round pick that we end up using to get a new S and pocket the money in cap savings on a team that has a ton of cap room already... what did we accomplish?

The team won't spend big in FA. We don't have a proven replacement for Byrd already. We have other needs. We rely heavy on the draft. So getting another pick while adding a new hole is a push and since we have no sure fire replacement actually waters down our talent further.

If we would spend the money elsewhere to significantly upgrade some other position I'd feel way better about it.