EJ Manual Senior Bowl and first 5 games of the season

[DesertFox24]

I watched the senior bowl and the first five games of the season and EJ got better and better every game.

I am starting to think that he was not fully healed from the knee sprain, but I am hoping that this off season working on football rather than combine prep will really propell him to the next level.

A few things he has that I believe are pluses is his arm talent, hand size, intelligence, and his deep ball got better, and lastly his work ethic.

Granted he has to learn how to recognize defenses faster and get ride of the ball faster and his accuracy needs to be improved. Again I am hoping working on his footwork and working with his wrs will help this.

All that being said I can see why Bills like him and I can see why so many dislike him as a prospect. The bills took a guy with loads of talent and is raw and are hoping to mold him into something special, which is exactly what the packers did with rogers.

Hopefully for all of our sakes Whaley, Hackett, Marrone, and new QB coach can turn him into an all pro by his third year, and next year he makes a name for himself as a legitimate franchise QB.

[Pinkerton Security]

I godforsaken hope so.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I see no reason to think he is a bust.

To give up on him already is just stupid.

I don't see any QBs in this draft that are any more sure fire.

Bridgewater is frail
Manziel is tiny and a running QB with average arm strength
Bortels didn't play top competition and his arm strength isn't top notch
Carr has a cannon but no accuracy

[Night Train]

I see no reason to think he is a bust.

To give up on him already is just stupid.

I don't see any QBs in this draft that are any more sure fire.

Bridgewater is frail
Manziel is tiny and a running QB with average arm strength
Bortels didn't play top competition and his arm strength isn't top notch
Carr has a cannon but no accuracy

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316307/article/draft-buzz-continues-to-build-around-qb-jimmy-garoppolo

The only QB I like, who may go all the way up to the 2nd or even 1st round now.
Stood out in the East-West Shrine game and gets another opportunity this week at the Senior Bowl.

[DesertFox24]

Yeah and I know people are going to destroy me for this but I would rather have Ej than Kaepernick and Russel Wilson. Both of those guys are great at extending plays but they both are a one read and run guy, and both have top 5 defenses and running games.

I know a lot of people want to say well he wins and blah blah blah, but if you look at neither of them have good pocket presence and they will fad away very soon. The NFL will always be a league run by QBs that can pass the football because you can defend running QBs with faster players, but you can not stop guys like Brees, Manning, and Brady you can only hope to contain them. Russel Wilson has had 4 games this year with over 200 yards passing and if Kaep is not playing GB he has horrible stats as well.

Go ahead and destroy me but time will tell that both Wilson and Kaep are nothing more than average QBs, and when they start to lose some of their acceleration and speed they will beome big time liabilities.

[DesertFox24]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000316307/article/draft-buzz-continues-to-build-around-qb-jimmy-garoppolo

The only QB I like, who may go all the way up to the 2nd or even 1st round now.
Stood out in the East-West Shrine game and gets another opportunity this week at the Senior Bowl.

I personally think he might be the best QB of this bunch, and he is not leaps and bounds better than EJ in my opinion.

I would look to draft a guy like Boyd, Keith Price, Tom Savage in rounds 5 or later if I am Buffalo.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah and I know people are going to destroy me for this but I would rather have Ej than Kaepernick and Russel Wilson. Both of those guys are great at extending plays but they both are a one read and run guy, and both have top 5 defenses and running games.

I know a lot of people want to say well he wins and blah blah blah, but if you look at neither of them have good pocket presence and they will fad away very soon. The NFL will always be a league run by QBs that can pass the football because you can defend running QBs with faster players, but you can not stop guys like Brees, Manning, and Brady you can only hope to contain them. Russel Wilson has had 4 games this year with over 200 yards passing and if Kaep is not playing GB he has horrible stats as well.

Go ahead and destroy me but time will tell that both Wilson and Kaep are nothing more than average QBs, and when they start to lose some of their acceleration and speed they will beome big time liabilities.

thats like saying you'll take Geno over Luck.

[DesertFox24]

thats like saying you'll take Geno over Luck.


Yeah no it is not. Luck is a legit franchise QB and was before he was drafted and has proven it.

Russel Wilson and Kaep are in my opinion flashes in the pan like Mark Sanchez when their defenses start to age and decline all will see what they are. One read and run away, neither is comfortable in the pocket or working through their reads.

I will say Wilson has better mechanics than Kaep but I am not impressed with him at all or Kaep. It will be interesting to see how they progress next season.

That being said I want a passer first as my QB not an athlete. If you look at EJ in college he was a passer first and even when he did scramble he would have his eyes down the field to look for a pass. Geno did the same thing.

My point is that everyone mad we passed on Wilson and what I am saying is I agree with Ron Jaws when I see that he has a lot of work to do to become a PASSER

[justasportsfan]

Yeah no it is not. Luck is a legit franchise QB and was before he was drafted and has proven it.

Russel Wilson and Kaep are in my opinion flashes in the pan like Mark Sanchez when their defenses start to age and decline all will see what they are. One read and run away, neither is comfortable in the pocket or working through their reads.

I will say Wilson has better mechanics than Kaep but I am not impressed with him at all or Kaep. It will be interesting to see how they progress next season.

That being said I want a passer first as my QB not an athlete. If you look at EJ in college he was a passer first and even when he did scramble he would have his eyes down the field to look for a pass. Geno did the same thing.

My point is that everyone mad we passed on Wilson and what I am saying is I agree with Ron Jaws when I see that he has a lot of work to do to become a PASSER

Okay , bad comparison. But at this point, both Wilson and Kaepernick have played well in the playoffs where the best of the best play. EJ's entire season is average AT BEST even vs. crappy teams. What he did in college has nothing to do with the NFL. Van Pelt broke Marino's college nos.

So no, I would not take EJ over those 2 at this point. If it weren't for EJ's masurables, I'd say that THAD is a better qb at this point and Tuel is a better passer.

[WagonCircler]

Yeah and I know people are going to destroy me for this but I would rather have Ej than Kaepernick and Russel Wilson.

OK, your credibility was shot with the OP. But this is off the charts stupidity.

[WagonCircler]

That being said I want a passer first as my QB not an athlete.

So do I.

EJ is a horrible passer.

[TacklingDummy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Oy8-sLAueuo/ToVruVzjzpI/AAAAAAAAAkA/5jty2lttmsc/s640/barn.png

[DesertFox24]

OK, your credibility was shot with the OP. But this is off the charts stupidity.


Apparently you did not read my post.

Both of those guys are not comfortable in the pocket and do not go through their progressions. They are one read and run guys.

At this point I saw EJ go through his progressions and look to pass a lot more than run. I care about long term success not short term and I do not believe Kaep and Wilson are long term successful QBs.

EJ is a still to early to determine if he will become a franchise guy or not, but I do not want buffalo to draft a guy that cannot go through his progressions or looks uncomfortable in the pocket.

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Okay , bad comparison. But at this point, both Wilson and Kaepernick have played well in the playoffs where the best of the best play. EJ's entire season is average AT BEST even vs. crappy teams. What he did in college has nothing to do with the NFL. Van Pelt broke Marino's college nos.

So no, I would not take EJ over those 2 at this point. If it weren't for EJ's masurables, I'd say that THAD is a better qb at this point and Tuel is a better passer.

By your logic Mark Sanchez is a stud because he had better numbers his first two years than these two guys.

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903372]Apparently you did not read my post.

Both of those guys are not comfortable in the pocket and do not go through their progressions. They are one read and run guys.

At this point I saw EJ go through his progressions and look to pass a lot more than run. I care about long term success not short term and I do not believe Kaep and Wilson are long term successful QBs.

EJ is a still to early to determine if he will become a franchise guy or not, but I do not want buffalo to draft a guy that cannot go through his progressions or looks uncomfortable in the pocket.

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Oh, I read it. I just believe it's based on severely misguided assumptions.

For starters, I remember a guy who was lauded for "going through his progressions" and "looking poised" and his name was Trent Edwards. The truth is, you can't assume that he's doing anything but waiting to throw to the outlet receiver, ala Captain Checkdown.

I'm not sure about Kap, but he's played QB in the NFL for 2 years and he's been to 2 NFC Championship games and one Super Bowl. Wilson is not far behind him.

EJ Manuel will never be an accurate enough passer to get that far, and even if he was, he's played 1 year and had 3 knee injuries.

I'm not a fan of running QBs, per se, unless they can pass and practice good ball security when they do run. EJ Manuel not only exhibits neither of those qualities, but he's not even in the same stratosphere talent-wise when it comes to running the ball as the other two. And he definitely hasn't proven that he throws well enough to even be a starter in the NFL, much less a playoff QB.

You're confusing arm strength with arm talent. Wilson is the total package, other than being undersized. Kaepernick, I think, will either learn to be a pocket passer or get broken in half, but he has the tools. He just needs to get smarter and make better decisions.

EJs problems are, in the opinion of many, unfixable. At this point, a QB's mechanics should be second nature. But he's still struggling with the exact same problems he did at FSU, which puts him way behind the curve when it comes to operating a complex Offense or reading complex Defensive schemes and making snap decisions.

Kap and Wilson came out of school and proved themselves right away. They're not just capable, they're bona-fide stars. EJ Manuel shouldn't even be on the field at this point.

There is absolutely no basis for your contention that Manuel will be the better QB long term. Nothing but hopes and dreams.

[SquishDaFish]

[QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903372]Apparently you did not read my post.

Both of those guys are not comfortable in the pocket and do not go through their progressions. They are one read and run guys.

At this point I saw EJ go through his progressions and look to pass a lot more than run. I care about long term success not short term and I do not believe Kaep and Wilson are long term successful QBs.

EJ is a still to early to determine if he will become a franchise guy or not, but I do not want buffalo to draft a guy that cannot go through his progressions or looks uncomfortable in the pocket.

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Oh, I read it. I just believe it's based on severely misguided assumptions.

For starters, I remember a guy who was lauded for "going through his progressions" and "looking poised" and his name was Trent Edwards. The truth is, you can't assume that he's doing anything but waiting to throw to the outlet receiver, ala Captain Checkdown.

I'm not sure about Kap, but he's played QB in the NFL for 2 years and he's been to 2 NFC Championship games and one Super Bowl. Wilson is not far behind him.

EJ Manuel will never be an accurate enough passer to get that far, and even if he was, he's played 1 year and had 3 knee injuries.

I'm not a fan of running QBs, per se, unless they can pass and practice good ball security when they do run. EJ Manuel not only exhibits neither of those qualities, but he's not even in the same stratosphere talent-wise when it comes to running the ball as the other two. And he definitely hasn't proven that he throws well enough to even be a starter in the NFL, much less a playoff QB.

You're confusing arm strength with arm talent. Wilson is the total package, other than being undersized. Kaepernick, I think, will either learn to be a pocket passer or get broken in half, but he has the tools. He just needs to get smarter and make better decisions.

EJs problems are, in the opinion of many, unfixable. At this point, a QB's mechanics should be second nature. But he's still struggling with the exact same problems he did at FSU, which puts him way behind the curve when it comes to operating a complex Offense or reading complex Defensive schemes and making snap decisions.

Kap and Wilson came out of school and proved themselves right away. They're not just capable, they're bona-fide stars. EJ Manuel shouldn't even be on the field at this point.

There is absolutely no basis for your contention that Manuel will be the better QB long term. Nothing but hopes and dreams.

You also are off base. You cant sit here and say EJ is garbage or a bust after 10 or so games. Way too small a sample size

[The Jokeman]

Apparently you did not read my post.

Both of those guys are not comfortable in the pocket and do not go through their progressions. They are one read and run guys.

At this point I saw EJ go through his progressions and look to pass a lot more than run. I care about long term success not short term and I do not believe Kaep and Wilson are long term successful QBs.

EJ is a still to early to determine if he will become a franchise guy or not, but I do not want buffalo to draft a guy that cannot go through his progressions or looks uncomfortable in the pocket.

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By your logic Mark Sanchez is a stud because he had better numbers his first two years than these two guys.
Sanchez did guide the Jets to two AFC Championships his first two seasons or was he just riding the coat tails of a strong defense and running game? You could say the same thing about Kaepernick. Again QB play good or bad is so reliant about the rest of the team and until more people understand this the harder it will to convince them that we can win with a guy like EJ as long as we improve the talent around him. One thing though with EJ is he is always mindful to try and make plays with his arm versus his legs which tells me he's got a chance to be a better QB whereas Kaepernick is more willing to run which tells me he might never develop into anything more than another Michael Vick who I grade as an average QB at best. The only difference is Kaepernick has some size on him and can take some of the hits that Vick can't.

[trapezeus]

i don't think it's giving up by bringing in higher level of talent around him. if they take a qb high or pick one in FA, tuel showed he isn't much of a game manager and he doesn't have the size or durability (based on college history) to be a legit third. I think thad earned the right to stay but most likely in a third string capacity. The bills need another guy to push EJ.

i agree, don't give up on him, but make him know and the team know that winning now is important. EJ's best was against weak teams. against the better teams, he was non-existant. he wasn't a difference maker. he was merely there at the best.

So to me, you got to get another qb. that was the plan last year with kolb but he got hurt (surprise surprise). but at least that was the plan then. i don't think ej has shown enough to not want that insurance plan behind him from both performance and durablity standpoints.

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3903479]

You also are off base. You cant sit here and say EJ is garbage or a bust after 10 or so games. Way too small a sample size

I've seen this too many times. Inaccurate QBs fail. He's too inaccurate to fix.

He has fatal flaws, and he's off the charts injury prone. Missing 1/3 of the season is one thing. Missing it with 3 separate injuries is alarming.

Besides, the poster I'm replying too says that EJ has higher upside than two QBs who are already highly accomplished after two seasons each. That's just plain ridiculous.

[DesertFox24]

[QUOTE=SquishDaFish;3903491]

I've seen this too many times. Inaccurate QBs fail. He's too inaccurate to fix.

He has fatal flaws, and he's off the charts injury prone. Missing 1/3 of the season is one thing. Missing it with 3 separate injuries is alarming.

Besides, the poster I'm replying too says that EJ has higher upside than two QBs who are already highly accomplished after two seasons each. That's just plain ridiculous.


Brady, Manning, Aikman, Young, Kelly were not as accurate their first year as they were in their prime. Hackett said EJ had problems with foot work and when his footwork was correct he was on the money and that it will take time.

Look I have no idea if EJ will be good or bad that was not the point. The point is EJ is better in the pocket than Wilson and Kaep at going through his progressions and is looking to throw rather than run. I want the bills to be Patriot good and that will require a PASSER not a runner at QB. San Fran and Seattle are flash in the pans and will realize very soon that Wilson and Kaep are not top 10 QBs in this league.

EJ may or may not be a top QB and hopefully the bills will know by the end of next season.

[justasportsfan]

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3903529]


Brady, Manning, Aikman, Young, Kelly were not as accurate their first year as they were in their prime. Hackett said EJ had problems with foot work and when his footwork was correct he was on the money and that it will take time.

Look I have no idea if EJ will be good or bad that was not the point. The point is EJ is better in the pocket than Wilson and Kaep at going through his progressions and is looking to throw rather than run. I want the bills to be Patriot good and that will require a PASSER not a runner at QB. San Fran and Seattle are flash in the pans and will realize very soon that Wilson and Kaep are not top 10 QBs in this league.

EJ may or may not be a top QB and hopefully the bills will know by the end of next season.Huh? EJ is pretending to look to throw ONLY IF THE WR IS OPEN. Otherwise, he's dinking it and he isn't even accurate at that.

At least Kaep and Wilson are good at something. EJ isn't good at anything. He's barely decent at anything. He can't even run the read-option better than Thad.

I think EJ has a lot of talent and can be a very good qb if he can develop. Right now, Thad is a better qb. We shouldn't even be comparng EJ to Wilson or Kaep. EJ hasn't earned that .

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903693]Huh? EJ is pretending to look to throw ONLY IF THE WR IS OPEN. Otherwise, he's dinking it and he isn't even accurate at that.

At least Kaep and Wilson are good at something. EJ isn't good at anything. He's barely decent at anything. He can't even run the read-option better than Thad.

I think EJ has a lot of talent and can be a very good qb if he can develop. Right now, Thad is a better qb. We shouldn't even be comparng EJ to Wilson or Kaep. EJ hasn't earned that .

I don't know why you attributed DesertFox24's comments to me, but I didn't say any of that.

Very, very strange.

[DesertFox24]

[QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903693]Huh? EJ is pretending to look to throw ONLY IF THE WR IS OPEN. Otherwise, he's dinking it and he isn't even accurate at that.

At least Kaep and Wilson are good at something. EJ isn't good at anything. He's barely decent at anything. He can't even run the read-option better than Thad.

I think EJ has a lot of talent and can be a very good qb if he can develop. Right now, Thad is a better qb. We shouldn't even be comparng EJ to Wilson or Kaep. EJ hasn't earned that .


Well we will agree to disagree.

EJ has thrown some great deep balls, but he definetly needs to improve his accuracy and decision making speed.

However, EJ and where he is at now is not my point. My point is I would rather take a guy like EJ who looks to throw rather than Kaep or Wilson who are a one read and run guy. They are not long term answers at the QB position and when those teams start losing talent to FA like the Jets did after Marks first two years they will come back down to earth. Might be a few more years since Seattle is young, San Fran defense is getting up there and probably on the decline starting next year.

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3903529]


Brady, Manning, Aikman, Young, Kelly were not as accurate their first year as they were in their prime. Hackett said EJ had problems with foot work and when his footwork was correct he was on the money and that it will take time..

You are comparing EJ with hall of fame QBs. There is zero basis for that. Those QBs' accuracy may have improved somewhat over time, but they were already highly accurate by the time they came out of college. Every one of them.

EJ is not even close. And worse yet, he's inaccurate when he's not even being rushed. Throw a pass rush at him and it's a lost cause.

He just has way too much ground to make up, and what it's going to do is set this team back another 2-3 years, because they'll be stubborn and unwilling to admit their mistake and even look at another QB. It's a pretty safe bet that the Bills will go into the season with the exact same QB situation as last year, and that absolutely sucks.

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[QUOTE=justasportsfan;3903699]


Well we will agree to disagree.

EJ has thrown some great deep balls, but he definetly needs to improve his accuracy and decision making speed.

However, EJ and where he is at now is not my point. My point is I would rather take a guy like EJ who looks to throw rather than Kaep or Wilson who are a one read and run guy. They are not long term answers at the QB position and when those teams start losing talent to FA like the Jets did after Marks first two years they will come back down to earth. Might be a few more years since Seattle is young, San Fran defense is getting up there and probably on the decline starting next year.

You are TOTALLY mischaracterizing Russell Wilson.

[justasportsfan]

I don't know why you attributed DesertFox24's comments to me, but I didn't say any of that.

Very, very strange. sorry. I quoted his post and didn't see his [quote] typo on his post.

YOur last post quoted yourself as well.

[WagonCircler]

sorry. I quoted his post and didn't see his [quote] typo on his post.

It's not just you. I just realized it's happening in everyone's posts. Something is messed up.

[justasportsfan]

Well we will agree to disagree.

EJ has thrown some great deep balls, but he definetly needs to improve his accuracy and decision making speed.

However, EJ and where he is at now is not my point. My point is I would rather take a guy like EJ who looks to throw rather than Kaep or Wilson who are a one read and run guy. They are not long term answers at the QB position and when those teams start losing talent to FA like the Jets did after Marks first two years they will come back down to earth. Might be a few more years since Seattle is young, San Fran defense is getting up there and probably on the decline starting next year.


Kaep and Wilson have thrown deep balls as well and have proven to be better than EJ in other areas. EJ couldn't even hold Wilsons and Kaep' jock when it comes to scrambling or running the read-option.

Not saying that EJ can't get better down the road but based on what's been PROVEN SO FAR, I would still pick Thad over EJ.

[justasportsfan]

It's not just you. I just realized it's happening in everyone's posts. Something is messed up.
it all started with quoting post #19

:D

[DesertFox24]

[QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903693]

You are comparing EJ with hall of fame QBs. There is zero basis for that. Those QBs' accuracy may have improved somewhat over time, but they were already highly accurate by the time they came out of college. Every one of them.

EJ is not even close. And worse yet, he's inaccurate when he's not even being rushed. Throw a pass rush at him and it's a lost cause.

He just has way too much ground to make up, and what it's going to do is set this team back another 2-3 years, because they'll be stubborn and unwilling to admit their mistake and even look at another QB. It's a pretty safe bet that the Bills will go into the season with the exact same QB situation as last year, and that absolutely sucks.

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[QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903734]

You are TOTALLY mischaracterizing Russell Wilson.

I compared his rookie year to theirs and that is perfectly legitimate and yes they compare.

As for what EJ becomes that is up to him, but based on his performance he compares to them and that is fact.

[DesertFox24]

Kaep and Wilson have thrown deep balls as well and have proven to be better than EJ in other areas. EJ couldn't even hold Wilsons and Kaep' jock when it comes to scrambling or running the read-option.

Not saying that EJ can't get better down the road but based on what's been PROVEN SO FAR, I would still pick Thad over EJ.

I should have known this would happen, I am not saying EJ is better or producing better than Kaep or Wilson. What I am saying is that those two QBs have not progressed as passers and what we are seeing with kaep is what we will get. Wilson has the benefit of one more offseason but by end of next year if he is not going through his reads and more comfortable in the pocket then he will be like Kaep and will eventually become a liability.

My point is this if you put those two guys on the Pats they do not go to AFC champ game. A great passer will always trump a running QB.

As for read option I dont want to run the read option at all, it is a fad like the wild cat.

As for people somehow thinking I am saying EJ will be a HOF, I never said that. I said that his first ten games compare to that of other HOFs that did not come in and light the world on fire.

Fans are very spoiled and think all first round QBs should be Andrew Luck successful their first year, well I hate to break it to you he is not the rule but rather the exception.

I in no way have said EJ will be any good I have said HOPE and there are things I like to see.

1. He looks to pass the ball when he scrambles
2. He is big strong and has big hands which is important in buffalo
3. Has great arm strength
4. Has made incredible throws that Fitz or Edwards could not have made. Losman is only QB we have had since Bledsoe with comparable arm strength
5. Went through his progressions multiple times and did while in the pocket not scrambling and making something happen.

While making something happen is great it will not last for any length of time and when Wilson and Kaep get near 30 they will lose that wiggle and speed and acceleration.

Those are my points.

EJ is a very raw unfinished product and needs a lot of footwork and mechanical work to become a finished product. However, like Hackett said yesterday when he did do the correct things he threw it very well, and in the pocket.

Now if next year EJ does not progress I will want another QB, but I will always want a big strong arm QB that looks to pass from the pocket rather than scramble around.

[justasportsfan]

I should have known this would happen, I am not saying EJ is better or producing better than Kaep or Wilson. What I am saying is that those two QBs have not progressed as passers and what we are seeing with kaep is what we will get. Wilson has the benefit of one more offseason but by end of next year if he is not going through his reads and more comfortable in the pocket then he will be like Kaep and will eventually become a liability.

My point is this if you put those two guys on the Pats they do not go to AFC champ game. A great passer will always trump a running QB.

As for read option I dont want to run the read option at all, it is a fad like the wild cat.

As for people somehow thinking I am saying EJ will be a HOF, I never said that. I said that his first ten games compare to that of other HOFs that did not come in and light the world on fire.

Fans are very spoiled and think all first round QBs should be Andrew Luck successful their first year, well I hate to break it to you he is not the rule but rather the exception.

I in no way have said EJ will be any good I have said HOPE and there are things I like to see.

1. He looks to pass the ball when he scrambles
2. He is big strong and has big hands which is important in buffalo
3. Has great arm strength
4. Has made incredible throws that Fitz or Edwards could not have made. Losman is only QB we have had since Bledsoe with comparable arm strength
5. Went through his progressions multiple times and did while in the pocket not scrambling and making something happen.

While making something happen is great it will not last for any length of time and when Wilson and Kaep get near 30 they will lose that wiggle and speed and acceleration.

Those are my points.

EJ is a very raw unfinished product and needs a lot of footwork and mechanical work to become a finished product. However, like Hackett said yesterday when he did do the correct things he threw it very well, and in the pocket.

Now if next year EJ does not progress I will want another QB, but I will always want a big strong arm QB that looks to pass from the pocket rather than scramble around.

I guess you're looking at EJ vs. the other qb's through a scouts eyes. Thats the reason why I picked EJ over the other qbs that were drafted this year. I would have taken a risk over a guy like EJ because of what you listed.

I guess my argument is based on whats been proven rather than EJ's ceiling. EJ has everything you look for in a qb but the problem is, he had the mojo of Trent after his concussion. No matter what he achieved in college, EJ played scared and when you play scared, you're acuracy goes down because you're making panic throws whether it's 5 yards or a deep ball.

I worry if he'll ever be a qb that can laser throws in tight spots that he will need to make in the playoffs. So far it's not looking good.

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3903740][QUOTE=DesertFox24;3903693]

You are comparing EJ with hall of fame QBs. There is zero basis for that. Those QBs' accuracy may have improved somewhat over time, but they were already highly accurate by the time they came out of college. Every one of them.

EJ is not even close. And worse yet, he's inaccurate when he's not even being rushed. Throw a pass rush at him and it's a lost cause.

He just has way too much ground to make up, and what it's going to do is set this team back another 2-3 years, because they'll be stubborn and unwilling to admit their mistake and even look at another QB. It's a pretty safe bet that the Bills will go into the season with the exact same QB situation as last year, and that absolutely sucks.

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I compared his rookie year to theirs and that is perfectly legitimate and yes they compare.

As for what EJ becomes that is up to him, but based on his performance he compares to them and that is fact.

You're trying to insinuate that there's reason to believe that EJ will improve to the level of the HOF QBs you mentioned. There's zero basis for this. It's nothing more than hopes and dreams. For every one of those guys, there are a hundred Trent Edwardses.

It's not up to EJ what he becomes. If all it took was hard work and desire, we could all be HOF QBs. It takes talent, in addition to those things, and elite accuracy just wasn't one of the gifts that God doled out to EJ.

[jdaltroy5]

Jesus Christ, someone needs to delete the [quote] from the beginning of their post.

[WagonCircler]

Jesus Christ, someone needs to delete the [quote] from the beginning of their post.

Weird, now the edit button is gone.

OK, now it's back, but the part of the quote above the quote box doesn't appear when you click "edit post."

[jdaltroy5]

Weird, now the edit button is gone.

OK, now it's back, but the part of the quote above the quote box doesn't appear when you click "edit post."It goes away after 15 minutes. It's so you can't go back and delete stupid things you've said.

A real hindrance for me.

[better days]

It goes away after 15 minutes. It's so you can't go back and delete stupid things you've said.

A real hindrance for me.

I could have used that button after thinking things through a few times myself.

[DesertFox24]

Ok look we all have different opinions on the matter.

I want big tall strong pocket passers as my QBs.

I am not insinuating anything about what EJ will become, I am stating with facts that if you look at their first ten games they are comparable and yes accuracy wise as well.

That being said EJ has a lot of talent and God given talent and I think improved mechanics and work will make him progress. Aaron Rogers had flawed mechanics and they got reworked in his first three years in the league, then in his fourth year he started and it was not pretty. In fact it was so bad Green Bay drafted Brian Brohm and Matt Flynn that year to compete or start over Rogers. Rogers then goes off in his 5th year.

Hackett said that they are working with EJ on his mechanics and footwork and it will take time for it to become a habit and that mechanical flaws caused everyone of his errant throws.

To boil it all down I do not believe Wilson and Kaep are legit QBs, I do not like any of the early round QBs people are touting on this board because their style will not work.

I am not going to sit here and say EJ is going to be great or that he my favorite QB last year (he was not), but he is our QB so I watched a bunch more tape on him and read a lot more about the offense and how he was coached (I know a lot of FSU people) and asked people questions about him and I like the guy and am hoping he does become the guy.

As for your scared in the pocket comment I did not see that at all, I saw a guy who got confused a few times but he did not got into Trentative mode or do what Blaine Gabbert does and fall away while throwing to avoid a hit.

[WagonCircler]

Ok look we all have different opinions on the matter.

I want big tall strong pocket passers as my QBs.

I am not insinuating anything about what EJ will become, I am stating with facts that if you look at their first ten games they are comparable and yes accuracy wise as well.

That being said EJ has a lot of talent and God given talent and I think improved mechanics and work will make him progress. Aaron Rogers had flawed mechanics and they got reworked in his first three years in the league, then in his fourth year he started and it was not pretty. In fact it was so bad Green Bay drafted Brian Brohm and Matt Flynn that year to compete or start over Rogers. Rogers then goes off in his 5th year.

Hackett said that they are working with EJ on his mechanics and footwork and it will take time for it to become a habit and that mechanical flaws caused everyone of his errant throws.

To boil it all down I do not believe Wilson and Kaep are legit QBs, I do not like any of the early round QBs people are touting on this board because their style will not work.

I am not going to sit here and say EJ is going to be great or that he my favorite QB last year (he was not), but he is our QB so I watched a bunch more tape on him and read a lot more about the offense and how he was coached (I know a lot of FSU people) and asked people questions about him and I like the guy and am hoping he does become the guy.

As for your scared in the pocket comment I did not see that at all, I saw a guy who got confused a few times but he did not got into Trentative mode or do what Blaine Gabbert does and fall away while throwing to avoid a hit.

I totally agree with you on big tall strong pocket passers. I bash "running QBs" all the time. I led the parade for Roethlisberger and Flacco coming out of college. I'm all about getting the next Jim Kelly.

EJ has plenty of talent, but he has flaws that I do not believe he can overcome. One, being accuracy, the other being damaged knees.

I'd be fine with keeping him, provided that we draft a QB to compete for the starting job.

As for Kaep and Russell, I have far more faith in Wilson than I do in Kaepernick, but I think they're both possible exceptions to the "running QBs suck" argument, of which I'm normally a proponent.

My caveat though, and it's why I like Manziell, is that he and the other two have exceptional passing skills, and if they can learn to be pocket passers first, who run when necessary, they could be Steve Young.

EJ can't even trow accurately when stationary. Throwing accurately on the run consistently for him is a pipe dream.

And as for being scared in the pocket, I'm talking about his refusal to take shots down the field. The Bills when entire stretches of games without even an attempted long ball. They have 3 world class (literally) speedsters out of 4 Wideouts. I find it hard to believe that the game plan was to NOT take at least a few shots downfield. EJ had to be checking down, ala Trent. He absolutely went into Trentative mode.

Hackett said they're working on his mechanics, but he should be WAY past that. His mechanics need to be second nature. He's years from that, and his inability holds the Offense back. It's exactly like when Edwards was here. The only time Defenses had to worry about a deep threat was when Thad was playing (and Thad is not the answer either).

Like Yogi said, it's like deja vu all over again.