Mike Pettine being hired away (as a head coach) is actually very good for the Bills

[JohnnyGold]

Let me preface this by saying: I have not seen this angle discussed anywhere--hardly surprising considering the "doom and gloom" attitude prevalent in most Bills fans, and the local media's insistence on catering to that crowd...

Now, for the first time since Marchibroda left Buffalo to be the head coach in Indianapolis--one of our coordinators left for a promotion to be a head coach. To me, that statistic is maybe more mind boggling than the fact that Buffalo has missed the playoffs for 14 straight years. And to add to that--look at it from this perspective:

In the years between Ralph firing Bill Polian, and Ralph ceding control of the organization to Russ Brandon, the Bills had ZERO coordinators leave Buffalo to become head coaches.
In the one year since Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon took over control of running the Buffalo Bills, they were able to hire a defensive coordinator with enough football acumen to leave the Buffalo Bills and land a head coaching job in the NFL.

That is a good thing. Is it sad to see such a great coach leave? Absolutely. But it also starts to take some of organizational tarnish away from the last 2 decades of Bills football. And if you need more proof that it's not business as usual at One Bills Drive, consider the following:

The 2 defensive coordinators who are being rumored to be in line to replace Pettine (Wade Phillips and Greg Williams) have both been previously FIRED by the Buffalo Bills. If those two facts taken together don't show that Ralph Wilson is truly no longer running this team, I don't know what does.

Now listen, the fact that the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 14 years can be attributed to a lot of different things--qb play is obviously the one that Bills fans can hang their hat on. But a stretch of losing that long comes down to organizational malaise--and the fact that in the first year of a new regime in the front office has yielded a coaching staff that was actually desired by another team, and now we're lining up high profile coordinators that want to be here--means that there truly is new top-down control in Buffalo.

Is EJ the man? Will we ever be able to stop the run? Can Marrone make good decisions on game day?

Those are all legitimate questions.

But maybe, for the first time since Polian was in control of this team, we have men at the top of the organization that we can trust to ANSWER those questions for us--not a meddling owner who scares away the best talent in football.

[Night Train]

Good posting.

Why are you wasting your time here at the Wailing Wall ?

[JohnnyGold]

Good posting.

Why are you wasting your time here at the Wailing Wall ?

Because I've traveled the internet far and wide reading/talking/arguing about the Buffalo Bills, and this board has--by far and away--the best posters.

No one here takes themselves too seriously, no one here thinks their next stop is a sportswriting gig for the Buffalo News, no one here is going to let a thread go 75 pages by bumping it with one word responses to keep it on the front page.

This is just a great place to talk about the Bills, occasionally get inside information, call some people disparaging names, and celebrate the highs and (mostly) lows of this sad sack organization. I choose this place to member up at for when the glory years come, and Ill keep my good posting right here!

[Oaf]

I find at Rumblings it's hard to follow the threads. It's not really a *forum*, I guess.

[Skooby]

We let Polian go too, brilliant moves are few & far between in the Buffalo front office.

[X-Era]

Because I've traveled the internet far and wide reading/talking/arguing about the Buffalo Bills, and this board has--by far and away--the best posters.

No one here takes themselves too seriously, no one here thinks their next stop is a sportswriting gig for the Buffalo News, no one here is going to let a thread go 75 pages by bumping it with one word responses to keep it on the front page.

This is just a great place to talk about the Bills, occasionally get inside information, call some people disparaging names, and celebrate the highs and (mostly) lows of this sad sack organization. I choose this place to member up at for when the glory years come, and Ill keep my good posting right here!
Bump

[Mahdi]

Pettine moving on to be a HC in Cleveland gives no added credit to the Bills organization and Marrone. It only gives credit back to Rex Ryan. Pettine used us as a springboard and he was a lone wolf in the organization who had nothing to do with the current Bills staff.

This was a complete loss for the Bills. Typical.

[ublinkwescore]

Hiring Schwartz protects what pettine has started, and probably enhances it in some areas, while subtracting from it in others - while our run d and 3rd down efficiency could improve, our interceptions and sacks could go down a notch, but I will call it a fair trade off to become a more balanced defense, and not see no-name rbs in patriots uniforms gashing us for a hundo before halftime.

This puts us in a position to work primarily on the O side of the ball - get EJ some weapons, and build a better line in front of him (hopefully, we get our line help from FA instead of drafting - unless it's a surefire starting tackle at 9, or a guard in the late teens of round one)...

I expect to see EJ take the next step, and become what we expect him to be by week 4. Stay healthy, and put up numbers - no game management here.

[feldspar]

Yeah, I think the OP is a rationalization and a stretch.

Kind of like trying to project a moral victory on a loss.

It does not give me a happy feeling when a team steals away what is perhaps our most promising key guy, no matter how you want to spin it. We get something good, and somebody else takes it. While I understand the OP, I don't buy it.

Maybe Schwartz will do a bang-up job here, though...that remains to be seen. Maybe if someone steals him off our squad tomorrow, our grins will become broader because that would be another guy somebody else coveted. I don't think it works that way.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yeah, I think the OP is a rationalization and a stretch.

Kind of like trying to project a moral victory on a loss.

It does not give me a happy feeling when a team steals away what is perhaps our most promising key guy, no matter how you want to spin it. We get something good, and somebody else takes it. While I understand the OP, I don't buy it.

Maybe Schwartz will do a bang-up job here, though...that remains to be seen. Maybe if someone steals him off our squad tomorrow, our grins will become broader because that would be another guy somebody else coveted. I don't think it works that way.

I love the new-found effectiveness of the sarcastic "moral victory" meme. Sounds great and means nothing. Regardless of the poor phrasing in the title, the point of the OP was that it was a good sign that the FO is not afraid to go after legitimate coaching candidates and that those candidates are not turning down the opportunity to come here as they have in the past. He never implied that losing Pettine makes the team better.

[The Jokeman]

I like that the Bills didn't end up doing what in previous years would happen which is to promote Henderson. I also like that we actually brought in a guy who actually has some credibility and a bit of a name in Schwartz. The only draw back is of course the worry that our D won't be the same under Schwartz but who knows it might be better. Time will tell. The next important thing for me is how we work this offseason. If it's like last offseason I'll worry a little bit because last offseason I talked about needing two LBs, a WR and a TE and a few other parts. Some of these positions went unfilled and appear to still be holes. Hopefully we use this offseason to fill most of them and shore up the rest in the draft. As right now are holes are FS (assuming Byrd not retained), TE (I'm not happy with just keeping Chandler), LB, WR, LG, and RT. I'd also like a veteran CB to toss in the mix. I'm okay if we try to fill two or at most three of these with high (see top 3) draft picks and would hope the rest are filled with veterans. I prefer the skilled offensive positions though be filled with veterans a think asking a rookie to be good at LB and O-line are realistic. I'm also not dead set against using a draft pick at CB as long as it's not at top 3 round pick as means we're not filling another need. Or to recap:

FS (re-sign Byrd)
TE (Eric Ebron 1st Round pick I don't think he'll be better than Chandler in but don't see any UFA possibilities if we go bargain shopping as previously reported)
LB (Yawin Smallwood 2nd Round pick)
WR (James Jones)
LG (Xavier Su'a-Filo 3rd Round pick)
RT (Jeff Linkenbach UFA Colts and Justin Brit 5th Round pick)
CB (Rashean Mathis)

[feldspar]

I love the new-found effectiveness of the sarcastic "moral victory" meme. Sounds great and means nothing. Regardless of the poor phrasing in the title, the point of the OP was that it was a good sign that the FO is not afraid to go after legitimate coaching candidates and that those candidates are not turning down the opportunity to come here as they have in the past. He never implied that losing Pettine makes the team better.

I know what he meant, and it's a stretch.

[JohnnyGold]

I know what he meant, and it's a stretch.

I don't see how it's a stretch--and the Schwartz hiring further solidifies my view on that.

The Bills lost a top-notch coordinator to a head coaching job elsewhere in the league, and then in 24 hours were able to turn around and hire a respected coordinator, with head coaching experience, in a move that was universally applauded by journalists and league observers--not only for the caliber of the hire, but for the speed and ease with which Buffalo was able to execute a contingency plan.

I am in no way talking about results on the field.

There is no way for me to verify any of this, but I have a feeling if Ralph was still running the team, the last 48 hours would have played out very differently in Buffalo--if Pettine was even here to be lost in the first place. And look at it from someone like Bill Cowhers perspective--a guy that wouldn't come and coach here because (allegedly) he was uncomfortable with our organizational structure. People around the league last night saw the Bills act quickly and decisively--and successfully. A sentence that honestly I cant remember saying about this team since... we drafted mcgahee?

As an aside, and these are only my opinions, but with regards to on-field results... I don't think Pettine's defense was all that special. The first Jets game, the Falcons game, and the last Patriots game stick out in my mind as games where the defense cost us a win... I think Pettine gambled a lot with blitzes that resulted in lots of excitement, but left us vulnerable in other areas. A more conservative defensive approach might not result in dramatic outcomes that get the fans riled up (that win at home over miami), but might do more in the long run to stablize the defense. Give me a defense that yields 18, 22, 18, 22 points over 4 games for an average of 20 points a game--vs a defense that yields 40, 0, 30, 10 points for the same average. To me, that's the difference between 10-6 and 6-10.

[better days]

I like that the Bills didn't end up doing what in previous years would happen which is to promote Henderson. I also like that we actually brought in a guy who actually has some credibility and a bit of a name in Schwartz. The only draw back is of course the worry that our D won't be the same under Schwartz but who knows it might be better. Time will tell. The next important thing for me is how we work this offseason. If it's like last offseason I'll worry a little bit because last offseason I talked about needing two LBs, a WR and a TE and a few other parts. Some of these positions went unfilled and appear to still be holes. Hopefully we use this offseason to fill most of them and shore up the rest in the draft. As right now are holes are FS (assuming Byrd not retained), TE (I'm not happy with just keeping Chandler), LB, WR, LG, and RT. I'd also like a veteran CB to toss in the mix. I'm okay if we try to fill two or at most three of these with high (see top 3) draft picks and would hope the rest are filled with veterans. I prefer the skilled offensive positions though be filled with veterans a think asking a rookie to be good at LB and O-line are realistic. I'm also not dead set against using a draft pick at CB as long as it's not at top 3 round pick as means we're not filling another need. Or to recap:

FS (re-sign Byrd)
TE (Eric Ebron 1st Round pick I don't think he'll be better than Chandler in but don't see any UFA possibilities if we go bargain shopping as previously reported)
LB (Yawin Smallwood 2nd Round pick)
WR (James Jones)
LG (Xavier Su'a-Filo 3rd Round pick)
RT (Jeff Linkenbach UFA Colts and Justin Brit 5th Round pick)
CB (Rashean Mathis)

I think Tony Moeaki is the wild card at TE you forgot about.

He could be the 2014 Starting TE.

[jpdex12]

I am not a fan of schwartz's personality but I think he has a very respectable defensive track record. That said, i didn't give thought to the fact that Marrone can also lean on him for some offensive advice from his days if bringing Detroit's offense yp to a top 5 offense in 4 out of the last five years. Like the move and super thread!

[feldspar]

I don't see how it's a stretch--and the Schwartz hiring further solidifies my view on that.

The Bills lost a top-notch coordinator to a head coaching job elsewhere in the league, and then in 24 hours were able to turn around and hire a respected coordinator, with head coaching experience, in a move that was universally applauded by journalists and league observers--not only for the caliber of the hire, but for the speed and ease with which Buffalo was able to execute a contingency plan.

I am in no way talking about results on the field.

There is no way for me to verify any of this, but I have a feeling if Ralph was still running the team, the last 48 hours would have played out very differently in Buffalo--if Pettine was even here to be lost in the first place. And look at it from someone like Bill Cowhers perspective--a guy that wouldn't come and coach here because (allegedly) he was uncomfortable with our organizational structure. People around the league last night saw the Bills act quickly and decisively--and successfully. A sentence that honestly I cant remember saying about this team since... we drafted mcgahee?

As an aside, and these are only my opinions, but with regards to on-field results... I don't think Pettine's defense was all that special. The first Jets game, the Falcons game, and the last Patriots game stick out in my mind as games where the defense cost us a win... I think Pettine gambled a lot with blitzes that resulted in lots of excitement, but left us vulnerable in other areas. A more conservative defensive approach might not result in dramatic outcomes that get the fans riled up (that win at home over miami), but might do more in the long run to stablize the defense. Give me a defense that yields 18, 22, 18, 22 points over 4 games for an average of 20 points a game--vs a defense that yields 40, 0, 30, 10 points for the same average. To me, that's the difference between 10-6 and 6-10.

Look, I'm as optimistic as the next guy that the Bills are trending upwards. Let's establish that.

But one thing that you perhaps are overlooking is that the defensive players currently on the Bills roster makes that an attractive opportunity for any coordinator. You have four of our defensive players going to the Pro Bowl...over one-third of our defense going to the Pro Bowl. Then you have Kiko Alonso and a number of other pretty solid guys besides that. LOTS of other pieces in place there on that side of the ball. What you have here is a recipe for success to anybody that knows their ass from a hole in the ground.

Kudos to the Bills for landing these couple of guys, but the player personnel sells itself. Plug in a couple of more guys and have the right guy run it, and the Bills defense could so easily be top 5 very soon.

Pettine used the Bills as a stepping stone probably from the get-go, and let's not pretend that several guys turned that Browns Head Coaching job down. The fact that Schwartz was still available at this point says something, too. I imagine that one the reasons why he didn't take the year off and collect lots of money for it was because the Bills defense is looking attractive for a coordinator, like I said. That's why they WANT to come to Buffalo and be the defensive coordinator.

If the Bills are paying these higher-end prospect names to come in, then that's good. I'll say that. Shwartz still has to prove his worth here, as we both know. Talk to me when positional coaches are taken to be coordinators or Nate Hackett proves he belongs at offensive coordinator. Doug Marrone himself has plenty to prove as well, which might be the biggest thing...that and QB, of course.