Pettine Loss is big -- Schwartz Hiring is a setback

[Mahdi]

This is a typical Bills event. Losing talent before it helps us to win something.

First of all, for those who say the hiring of Pettine will help improve the image of the organization they're wrong IMO. Pettine getting hired adds to the Ryan legacy, not the Bills or Marrone legacy. Other NFL teams will now look closer at the Ryan coaching tree for coordinators and HCs. Pettine was a lone wolf and brought a Ryan scheme that was separate from anything Marrone endorsed. He ran it, he called it and coached it. And it was the only successful unit on the team. Once again the Bills manage to lose talent before it wins us anything.

Second, Schwartz is basically the opposite DC to Pettine. Schwartz plays a simple base 4-3 defense, rarely blitzes and relies mainly on front four pressure. His unit had 33 sacks in 2013. We're basically going to be scaling down our defense. Even as the DC of the Titans he was the same. The Bills players are going to be coming off a system where they were having fun, standing up in strange looks, rushing from different positions (Mario coming off both edges as well as inside) and forcing QBs into bad decisions to a defense that will sit back and let Qbs see the field.

At least our defense will match our offense in style points.

[SquishDaFish]

Disagree. People need to stop looking at his defense in Detroit. Go back to his tenn says that's his style defense. His defense is like pettines where he adapts to his players and runs multiple type schemes. I think he's going to fit in perfect and we won't see a drop of and will see improvements in rush defense And third down defense.I think other than wade this was a perfect hire.

Also yea it's ryans tree but this shows he knows how to his good coaches

[Strongman]

I'm hopeful Schwartz will do great, but I don't see why people think he was an amazing DC. There's a good chance he will be a downgrade from Pettine. Here's how his overall defenses ranked when he was with Titans:

Year Titan's Defense Rank
2002 #11
2003 #13
2004 #30
2005 #29
2006 #31
2007 #8
2008 #2

I was researching back on some of the Titan's MBs, and they attribute 2007 and 2008 to Albert Haynesworth stepping up his play because he was coming up on his contract year. For much of his tenure there, fans were calling for him to be fired. There was even a website called fireschwartz.com that was running.

I'm starting to wish they went with Wade.

[Albany,n.y.]

Some people wouldn't be happy unless the Bills had gone to NE & convinced them to let Bill Belichick step down as HC to be our DC. Then after the Bills did that they'd say how much they hate the move because they've always hated Belichick & his cheating ways.

[Mouldsie]

Agree w/ this thread 100% unless Schwartz changes his stripes I don't like this hire

[pmoon6]

This is a typical Bills event. Losing talent before it helps us to win something.

First of all, for those who say the hiring of Pettine will help improve the image of the organization they're wrong IMO. Pettine getting hired adds to the Ryan legacy, not the Bills or Marrone legacy. Other NFL teams will now look closer at the Ryan coaching tree for coordinators and HCs. Pettine was a lone wolf and brought a Ryan scheme that was separate from anything Marrone endorsed. He ran it, he called it and coached it. And it was the only successful unit on the team. Once again the Bills manage to lose talent before it wins us anything.

Second, Schwartz is basically the opposite DC to Pettine. Schwartz plays a simple base 4-3 defense, rarely blitzes and relies mainly on front four pressure. His unit had 33 sacks in 2013. We're basically going to be scaling down our defense. Even as the DC of the Titans he was the same. The Bills players are going to be coming off a system where they were having fun, standing up in strange looks, rushing from different positions (Mario coming off both edges as well as inside) and forcing QBs into bad decisions to a defense that will sit back and let Qbs see the field.

At least our defense will match our offense in style points.What did you expect Buffalo to do? Offer him double what our HC is making to stay as DC?

Pettine was offered a promotion and a contract and took it. I don't know how the team could have changed anything. What is interesting was that Pettine was Clevelands' 4th choice and he got the job by default.

We hired a guy with a pretty good resume.

But, the fans have to stick with what works. Cry about something before you see anything on the field.

[pmoon6]

Agree w/ this thread 100% unless Schwartz changes his stripes I don't like this hireWe'll alert the media.

[better days]

This is a typical Bills event. Losing talent before it helps us to win something.

First of all, for those who say the hiring of Pettine will help improve the image of the organization they're wrong IMO. Pettine getting hired adds to the Ryan legacy, not the Bills or Marrone legacy. Other NFL teams will now look closer at the Ryan coaching tree for coordinators and HCs. Pettine was a lone wolf and brought a Ryan scheme that was separate from anything Marrone endorsed. He ran it, he called it and coached it. And it was the only successful unit on the team. Once again the Bills manage to lose talent before it wins us anything.

Second, Schwartz is basically the opposite DC to Pettine. Schwartz plays a simple base 4-3 defense, rarely blitzes and relies mainly on front four pressure. His unit had 33 sacks in 2013. We're basically going to be scaling down our defense. Even as the DC of the Titans he was the same. The Bills players are going to be coming off a system where they were having fun, standing up in strange looks, rushing from different positions (Mario coming off both edges as well as inside) and forcing QBs into bad decisions to a defense that will sit back and let Qbs see the field.

At least our defense will match our offense in style points.

Bad decisions? like handing the ball off to a RB to gash the team for hundreds of yds?

The Bills may not get as many big plays under Schwartz as they did Pettine, but I doubt they give up as many big plays either.

I hate losing Pettine as much as anyone but nothing can be done about that.

I think the Bills made a good hire in Schwartz to replace him.

[Mahdi]

What did you expect Buffalo to do? Offer him double what our HC is making to stay as DC?

Pettine was offered a promotion and a contract and took it. I don't know how the team could have changed anything. What is interesting was that Pettine was Clevelands' 4th choice and he got the job by default.

We hired a guy with a pretty good resume.

But, the fans have to stick with what works. Cry about something before you see anything on the field.

I expected them to hire from within and maintain continuity from the only successful unit we've had in years. Not hire a DC who's system is exact opposite of the one we ran and who was never really that successful as a DC in the first place.

I'm pretty sure our players are not enthused. The ONE time I want the Bills to make a cheapskate move and promote from within they act all smart and get a seemingly high profile hire.

[Mahdi]

I'm hopeful Schwartz will do great, but I don't see why people think he was an amazing DC. There's a good chance he will be a downgrade from Pettine. Here's how his overall defenses ranked when he was with Titans:

Year Titan's Defense Rank
2002 #11
2003 #13
2004 #30
2005 #29
2006 #31
2007 #8
2008 #2

I was researching back on some of the Titan's MBs, and they attribute 2007 and 2008 to Albert Haynesworth stepping up his play because he was coming up on his contract year. For much of his tenure there, fans were calling for him to be fired. There was even a website called fireschwartz.com that was running.

I'm starting to wish they went with Wade.

Good DC don't go 3 years in a row with bottom ranked defenses....

[swiper]

This is a typical Bills event. Losing talent before it helps us to win something.

First of all, for those who say the hiring of Pettine will help improve the image of the organization they're wrong IMO. Pettine getting hired adds to the Ryan legacy, not the Bills or Marrone legacy. Other NFL teams will now look closer at the Ryan coaching tree for coordinators and HCs. Pettine was a lone wolf and brought a Ryan scheme that was separate from anything Marrone endorsed. He ran it, he called it and coached it. And it was the only successful unit on the team. Once again the Bills manage to lose talent before it wins us anything.

Second, Schwartz is basically the opposite DC to Pettine. Schwartz plays a simple base 4-3 defense, rarely blitzes and relies mainly on front four pressure. His unit had 33 sacks in 2013. We're basically going to be scaling down our defense. Even as the DC of the Titans he was the same. The Bills players are going to be coming off a system where they were having fun, standing up in strange looks, rushing from different positions (Mario coming off both edges as well as inside) and forcing QBs into bad decisions to a defense that will sit back and let Qbs see the field.

At least our defense will match our offense in style points.

How do you know that? How do you know that the Schwartz hire wasn't contingent on him maintaining the current defensive playbook? Answer: you don't.

[Skooby]

One factor not being weighed here is that Schwartz has a boss, so the final schemes will be determined by Marrone & implemented by him. I would assume a hybrid package that allows for random blitzing, we got to the QB quite a bit but at what cost to our run defense?

[Mahdi]

How do you know that? How do you know that the Schwartz hire wasn't contingent on him maintaining the current defensive playbook? Answer: you don't.

Yer right,,, however, does it make sense to hire a DC that rarely or never blitzes to a team that had major success doing it the previous year and set a franchise record in sacks? Does it make sense to hire a DC who is strictly a base 4-3 guy to take on a defense that was successful being multiple?

Sure we had very spotty run defense but we definitely don't need an overhaul of the playbook to improve that. We need 1 or 2 better run defenders.

[stuckincincy]

One factor not being weighed here is that Schwartz has a boss, so the final schemes will be determined by Marrone & implemented by him. I would assume a hybrid package that allows for random blitzing, we got to the QB quite a bit but at what cost to our run defense?

Then everybody who has the knife out for the ST coach should be going after Marrone?

[BertSquirtgum]

What a bunch of pussy ass whiners.

[Buffalogic]

Every year Schwartz was in Detroit their run defense got better. They gave up points because they have a ****ty secondary. We don't. It should be a good combination.

[Bunion]

I'm hopeful Schwartz will do great, but I don't see why people think he was an amazing DC. There's a good chance he will be a downgrade from Pettine. Here's how his overall defenses ranked when he was with Titans:

Year Titan's Defense Rank
2002 #11
2003 #13
2004 #30
2005 #29
2006 #31
2007 #8
2008 #2

I was researching back on some of the Titan's MBs, and they attribute 2007 and 2008 to Albert Haynesworth stepping up his play because he was coming up on his contract year. For much of his tenure there, fans were calling for him to be fired. There was even a website called fireschwartz.com that was running.

I'm starting to wish they went with Wade.
A DT steps up his game in a contract year and that's the difference between a #31 and #8 defense? Unless he's the bastard child of Haloti Ngata, Warren Sapp and the Incredible Hulk, Titans fans came up with some pretty bull**** reasoning.

[imbondz]

THe Schwartz hire is a huge fail. Beyond frustrating

[kingJofNYC]

What a bunch of pussy ass whiners.

In a few months you'll be joining the pussy ass whiners.

[Raptor]

Disagree. People need to stop looking at his defense in Detroit. Go back to his tenn says that's his style defense. His defense is like pettines where he adapts to his players and runs multiple type schemes. I think he's going to fit in perfect and we won't see a drop of and will see improvements in rush defense And third down defense.I think other than wade this was a perfect hire.

Also yea it's ryans tree but this shows he knows how to his good coaches


That is completely false. He is a 4-3 Wide 9 guy through and through

[Raptor]

Schwartz is basically Wanny v2.0. He rarely blitzes and relies on his DL to determine the success of his D

[justasportsfan]

People will start looking at Ryan's coaching tree for head coaching when he himself hasn't won anything and his team has regressed?

[justasportsfan]

I'm pretty sure our players are not enthused. The ONE time I want the Bills to make a cheapskate move and promote from within they act all smart and get a seemingly high profile hire.

Haha!

[justasportsfan]

Does it make sense to hire a DC who is strictly a base 4-3 guy to take on a defense that was successful being multiple?

Now I see where the problem is, you didn't do your homework.

[BertSquirtgum]

In a few months you'll be joining the pussy ass whiners.

Nope. I don't care enough about this team to whine about them anymore.

[Night Train]

I'm going to give him a chance. He's been a DC a lot longer than a HC and isn't Wanny in the least.

His Tenn. tenure as DC was very good. Lions fell this year but when he first took them over, they were the worst team in football and made them a winner.

You mold your D based on the players you have. Our D has some talent and can get better this off-season on paper and better on the field, come the fall.

I remember the Pettine concerns last year. He wasn't calling the D with the Jets and was just a Rex asst. coach, I was instructed. Whatever.

He has vast experience and isn't someone that was away from the NFL for some time.

He gets his shot and is a legit hire.

[John Doe]

I'm hopeful Schwartz will do great, but I don't see why people think he was an amazing DC. There's a good chance he will be a downgrade from Pettine. Here's how his overall defenses ranked when he was with Titans:

Year Titan's Defense Rank
2002 #11
2003 #13
2004 #30
2005 #29
2006 #31
2007 #8
2008 #2

I was researching back on some of the Titan's MBs, and they attribute 2007 and 2008 to Albert Haynesworth stepping up his play because he was coming up on his contract year. For much of his tenure there, fans were calling for him to be fired. There was even a website called fireschwartz.com that was running.

I'm starting to wish they went with Wade.

Jeff Fisher is a very competent head coach. I did not see him trying to replace Schwartz during his tenure with the Titans.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm hopeful Schwartz will do great, but I don't see why people think he was an amazing DC. There's a good chance he will be a downgrade from Pettine. Here's how his overall defenses ranked when he was with Titans:

Year Titan's Defense Rank
2002 #11
2003 #13
2004 #30
2005 #29
2006 #31
2007 #8
2008 #2

I was researching back on some of the Titan's MBs, and they attribute 2007 and 2008 to Albert Haynesworth stepping up his play because he was coming up on his contract year. For much of his tenure there, fans were calling for him to be fired. There was even a website called fireschwartz.com that was running.

I'm starting to wish they went with Wade.
But Wade is even less like Pettine.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Not sure if Schwartz is a downgrade or upgrade here but just happy we were able to get someone who is very competent so late in the game.

We had no choice on losing Pettine. At least they went out and got a guy who is well known and had good success in the past.

[imbondz]

is that true we had no choice? money talks. I would have said whatever Cleveland offers, I'll raise it by $500,000. Would he have stayed if that was on the table?

[imbondz]

lol

[SquishDaFish]

Nope. I don't care enough about this team to whine about them anymore.

Wow dude the little respect I had for you if I did is now gone

[Albany,n.y.]

is that true we had no choice? money talks. I would have said whatever Cleveland offers, I'll raise it by $500,000. Would he have stayed if that was on the table?

No. The goal is to be a head coach in the NFL. There is not one man who has ever coached who would have stayed with the current Buffalo Bills as an assistant if he was offered a job as an NFL head coach. It's a little different if a guy with a perennial Super Bowl contender stays-because he knows he'll get more exposure & can turn down a bad gig. Pettine does not have that luxury being an assistant on a team that hasn't made the playoffs this century.

[christhebillsfan783]

The biggest thing to take away from this is we didn't fire Pettine to then hire Schwartz. We replaced him because he was picked up given a HC job and more money. So having the mindset of we should have kept Pettine, is irrelevant. We can't blame him either, you start a career with aspirations to get to the top of your field and he took his chance. Nothing we could have done. So we hired a guy who was available who had a pretty decent resume. Teams change, coaches change. It's part of the game. While Pettine's defense put up record numbers in style points with turnovers and sacks, they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down and they got ran all over on.

[Jeff1220]

Titans run D under Schwartz:
2002 - 31
2003 - 32
2004 - 15
2005 - 11
2006 - 3
2007 - 28
2008 - 6

I can't remember personally witnessing any of this, but from the stats, it looks like he steadily improved Tennessee's run defense from it 31/32 rankings in the first couple of years he took over. I don't understand/have no idea what went wrong in 2007. Injuries to the O-line/L-backers maybe? In any case, with the defense's return to form against the run in '08, the previous year seems to be a hiccup.

If the Bills' D could maintain close to its 2013 strength vs. the pass and hover between 3 & 15 like the Schwartz D in Tenn, it would be a defense that would scare people. While the likelihood of this could be argued, this might have played into Marrone's decision to hire him.
(For the record, with Schwartz as a HC, Detroit was #8, 9, 10, 17, & 27 vs. the run in 2009-2013)

[pmoon6]

I expected them to hire from within and maintain continuity from the only successful unit we've had in years. Not hire a DC who's system is exact opposite of the one we ran and who was never really that successful as a DC in the first place.

I'm pretty sure our players are not enthused. The ONE time I want the Bills to make a cheapskate move and promote from within they act all smart and get a seemingly high profile hire.Hmmm. Defensive philosophy is predicated on evolution. Does Belichick run the same defense he did in the early '90's? Dick LeBeau? A good coach, and I think Schwartz is, is not going to come in and totally revamp the defense. Also, the thinking that "Oh, he's a 4-3 guy" is kinda out of step. No one runs a true 3-4 anymore, almost always there are 4 guys on the LOS. It doesn't matter if one is called a linebacker, if he lines up at DE it's a 4-3 alignment. The alignments used are situational and why they are labeled "hybrids".

I also think that Marrone isn't going to let that happen and get too far away from what made us the number 10 defense last year.

Of course, it's a Bills' Fans' inalienable right to cry about something before it happens.

[swiper]

Hmmm. Defensive philosophy is predicated on evolution. Does Belichick run the same defense he did in the early '90's? Dick LeBeau? A good coach, and I think Schwartz is, is not going to come in and totally revamp the defense. Also, the thinking that "Oh, he's a 4-3 guy" is kinda out of step. No one runs a true 3-4 anymore, almost always there are 4 guys on the LOS. It doesn't matter if one is called a linebacker, if he lines up at DE it's a 4-3 alignment. The alignments used are situational and why they are labeled "hybrids".

I also think that Marrone isn't going to let that happen and get too far away from what made us the number 10 defense last year.

Of course, it's a Bills' Fans' inalienable right to cry about something before it happens.

Couple of comments.

It seems that you and I are the only ones that keep posting the fact that the Bills may have hired Schwartz contingent on him continuing the current d-scheme.

Secondly, Defensive philosophy is predicated on evolution and personnel on hand. Which I think points to the likelihood of the above statement being true (about continuing last season's scheme).

And your mention of LeBeau is timely in the sense that he failed terribly as the Bengals head coach, yet returned to Pittsburgh to run many years of strong defenses.

[Night Train]

Why did Jeff Fisher employ Schwartz for 10 years on his staff (before leaving for Detroit) if he was so bad ?

Sorry "I know better" crowd. I've never been impressed with your declarations of failure before people get a chance to show ones body of work. Epic fail.

Different place, different players..a full off-season to still play out. Grade incomplete but fans get to view things any way they wish and a fan message board will usually place an optimistic view on their team, hate it or not.

[pmoon6]

Couple of comments.

It seems that you and I are the only ones that keep posting the fact that the Bills may have hired Schwartz contingent on him continuing the current d-scheme.

Secondly, Defensive philosophy is predicated on evolution and personnel on hand. Which I think points to the likelihood of the above statement being true (about continuing last season's scheme).

And your mention of LeBeau is timely in the sense that he failed terribly as the Bengals head coach, yet returned to Pittsburgh to run many years of strong defenses.All great points, especially with regard to personnel.

There was no way that Wade would come back to Buffalo. Gregg Williams still has a job, but I doubt he would come back either. I can't think of any other possible candidate that would be better than Swartz, although it would have been cool if they did try to get Williams. We would have witnessed a meltdown of epic proportions on this board. Some may have even jumped off the Peace Bridge.

[Night Train]

Some may have even jumped off the Peace Bridge.

That's called an " upside " .

[pmoon6]

That's called an " upside " .:rofl: Yes. yes it is.

[Famous Amos]

Good DC don't go 3 years in a row with bottom ranked defenses....
Yeah what was up with 2004-2006? That's worrisome.

[pmoon6]

Yeah what was up with 2004-2006? That's worrisome.Players? Javon Kearse signed with another team as well as Samari Rolle.

[swiper]

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t433/drulloch/WhaWha.gif You guys are mean.

[swiper]

Yeah what was up with 2004-2006? That's worrisome.

http://www.namedevelopment.com/blog/archives/Famous-Amos.gif

[stuckincincy]

Couple of comments.

It seems that you and I are the only ones that keep posting the fact that the Bills may have hired Schwartz contingent on him continuing the current d-scheme.

Secondly, Defensive philosophy is predicated on evolution and personnel on hand. Which I think points to the likelihood of the above statement being true (about continuing last season's scheme).

And your mention of LeBeau is timely in the sense that he failed terribly as the Bengals head coach, yet returned to Pittsburgh to run many years of strong defenses.

What coach succeeds under owner Mike Brown?

He claimed Sam Wyche quit, causing him to sue Brown to get his $. David Shula used to go to his car and eat lunch during training camp, to get away from the toxic clubhouse. Bruce Coslet wanted the deal that Ditka offered up for Ricky Williams - Brown insisted on Akili Smith. In 1999, Coslet resigned after 3 games, and Lebeau was appointed. Marvin Lewis has been the HC for 11 years, with a WL record hovering around .500, and five 1st round playoff losses, and a putrid prime time game record.

..."Prior to the draft, there was an effort by New Orleans Saints' head coach Mike Ditka and management to get the Cincinnati Bengals' high draft position so the Saints could get Ricky Williams. The final offer, which was refused by Bengals management, was for nine draft picks, several extra in that year as well as many the next year. Instead of taking the trade, the Bengals stayed with their initial decision to draft Smith, who, while athletic, (he had also played two years of minor-league baseball and ran a 4.66 40-yard dash[2]) was still largely unproven, having only succeeded at the college level for one season.

Smith missed large periods of 1999 training camp due to contract disputes; many pundits[who?] later speculated that his absence from this part of training camp hurt him in the seasons to come.[citation needed] Despite showing athleticism in his early games, he failed to grasp the Bengals playbook fully, and never established himself with the team. During the four years he was with the Bengals, he would only start in 17 games and throw just five TD passes next to 13 interceptions, eventually leading to his release in 2002, after riding the bench mostly during the previous two years."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akili_Smith

[Jry44]

This is a typical Bills event. Losing talent before it helps us to win something.

First of all, for those who say the hiring of Pettine will help improve the image of the organization they're wrong IMO. Pettine getting hired adds to the Ryan legacy, not the Bills or Marrone legacy. Other NFL teams will now look closer at the Ryan coaching tree for coordinators and HCs. Pettine was a lone wolf and brought a Ryan scheme that was separate from anything Marrone endorsed. He ran it, he called it and coached it. And it was the only successful unit on the team. Once again the Bills manage to lose talent before it wins us anything.

Second, Schwartz is basically the opposite DC to Pettine. Schwartz plays a simple base 4-3 defense, rarely blitzes and relies mainly on front four pressure. His unit had 33 sacks in 2013. We're basically going to be scaling down our defense. Even as the DC of the Titans he was the same. The Bills players are going to be coming off a system where they were having fun, standing up in strange looks, rushing from different positions (Mario coming off both edges as well as inside) and forcing QBs into bad decisions to a defense that will sit back and let Qbs see the field.

At least our defense will match our offense in style points.


This is?!? We typically have a coach on one of our staff's that's so successful that he land's a head coaching gig? And it's typical that we go outside to hire a big name, successful coach with a great reputation as a coordinator instead of promoting a guy from within with no experience?

Where in the hell have I been.....

[stuckincincy]

Where in the hell have I been.....

Away from show business for too long?

[starrymessenger]

That is completely false. He is a 4-3 Wide 9 guy through and through

He won't be running W-9 in Blo. The DEs are just too big to be split out like that. And having bigger gaps along the interior D line would make for a potentially disastrous result for an already suspect run defense.
I've got to believe that Wanny is the only DC dumb enuf to stubbornly run a scheme that does not accommodate his players skill sets. Schwartz in Detroit seemed responsive to making the best use of the players he had on D. With that putrid secondary would he have been further ahead gambling more than he did. I don't think so.

[better days]

He won't be running W-9 in Blo. The DEs are just too big to be split out like that. And having bigger gaps along the interior D line would make for a potentially disastrous result for an already suspect run defense.
I've got to believe that Wanny is the only DC dumb enuf to stubbornly run a scheme that does not accommodate his players skill sets. Schwartz in Detroit seemed responsive to making the best use of the players he had on D. With that putrid secondary would he have been further ahead gambling more than he did. I don't think so.

If Schwartz wants to run a wide 9 in Buffalo, I don't think he will have any problem doing that with Mario Williams on one side & Jerry Hughes on the other.

[starrymessenger]

If Schwartz wants to run a wide 9 in Buffalo, I don't think he will have any problem doing that with Mario Williams on one side & Jerry Hughes on the other.
Put Mario on the strong side and he will get chipped blocked by TEs all day long. Hughes is a pass rushing specialist who is a liability against the run. I don't expect to see W-9 except maybe situationally and only assuming we find a good run stuffing LB.

[Bill Cody]

Coaches have a hand in defensive ranking but good players have more, so this obsession with team rankings is not too relevant other than you want to see improvement. The only knock I have on Schwartz is his Detroit teams lacked discipline. That's a big problem for a head coach but not as much for a DC. Schwartz is a fiery guy. I like that. I expect him to do well. Especially if we add a couple LB's and a NT. The whiners have nothing to say really except "I really liked Pettine". Pettine's gone folks, dry your tears. The here and now is 31 teams already had a DC. Good hire.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Players? Javon Kearse signed with another team as well as Samari Rolle.

Any team that has Haynesworth, Pacman Jones, Randy Staeks, Keith Bulluck, and Kyle Vandenbosch has enough talent to stay out of the basement for three season.

OTOH, any team with Haynesworth and Jones needs a lawyer and psychiatrist on speed dial.

[pmoon6]

I don't know what this stuff is about needing a DT. Both ours made it to the Pro Bowl even though I think the PB is a bit of a joke.

I think we go LB, two O-lineman, TE, WR and another Corner.

[Jry44]

Away from show business for too long?


Apparently....

[Bangarang]

The Lions blitzed half as much as we did last year (19% of their snaps vs. 38% for Pettine) but generated the same amount of pressure as we did. Lions defense generated pressure on 38% of their defensive snaps much like the Bills did.

People think 4-3 without the exotic looks and assume it's going to be like having Wannstedt all over again. It's not.

[YardRat]

I don't know what this stuff is about needing a DT. Both ours made it to the Pro Bowl even though I think the PB is a bit of a joke.

I think we go LB, two O-lineman, TE, WR and another Corner.

Neither KW or Kiko are stout enough to man-up on runs between the tackles. Love 'em both, but bigger, stronger bodies in both position would help this defense immensely. We don't necessarily need both, I guess, but at least one would be an improvement. Keeping both as full time starters in their current spots will just perpetuate the inability to stop the run. Just IMO.

[DraftBoy]

That is completely false. He is a 4-3 Wide 9 guy through and through

No he's not, he's never coached the Wide 9 that was brought in by Cunningham and not installed by Schwartz.

Schwartz however has actually coached a base 34 (under Gregg Williams) and a base 43 (under Marvin Lewis).

So all this crap about him being a base 43 guy is completely false.

[DraftBoy]

If Schwartz wants to run a wide 9 in Buffalo, I don't think he will have any problem doing that with Mario Williams on one side & Jerry Hughes on the other.

We don't have a single DE who can run the Wide 9. Mario in a Wide 9 is a horrible fit for his skill set.

[better days]

We don't have a single DE who can run the Wide 9. Mario in a Wide 9 is a horrible fit for his skill set.

OK explain how wide nine is a horrible fit for a speed rusher like Mario.

[The Jokeman]

No he's not, he's never coached the Wide 9 that was brought in by Cunningham and not installed by Schwartz.

Schwartz however has actually coached a base 34 (under Gregg Williams) and a base 43 (under Marvin Lewis).

So all this crap about him being a base 43 guy is completely false.

I've used http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ as a point of reference and the only year I saw Schwarz involved as a D that ran a 3-4 were the 1996 Ravens, so am curious where you derived your information from?

[better days]

Well, I have been reading up on Schwartz since the Bills hired him. The more I learned about him, the better I like this hire.

By all accounts, Schwartz is SMART. And he is just as aggressive as Pettine.

He may not blitz as much as Pettine, but that does not mean he doesn't want to put pressure on the QB.

I think we will see the Bills in a number of different looks under Schwartz just as we did when Pettine was DC.

[User Manuel]

Does everyone forget that the Jets cut ties with Pettine, which is why he came here? Jim Schwartz was a decent head coach and has been a great DC in the NFL. I find it interesting that the comment was made that he was only good because Haynesworth was ramping up for a contract. Many seem to forget that the defense in Tennessee won with Vince young at QB and a dynamic running game. That Tennessee defense was a tough defense to play and they won. Anyone that is trying to pigeonhole this automatically into a bad hire is trying too hard to criticize the Bills. He is as qualified and has as good a resume as anyone else.

[BertSquirtgum]

Wow dude the little respect I had for you if I did is now gone

What little respect I had for this team is now gone. 14 years no playoffs. 12 years of season tickets, every season ending in embarrassment. I'll continue to follow but I don't care what happens.

[SquishDaFish]

Then drop your tix or give them to someone who cares

[Historian]

I like having a coordinator with hc experience....it gives him a unique perspective on all the personnel.

[TedMock]

I've used http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ as a point of reference and the only year I saw Schwarz involved as a D that ran a 3-4 were the 1996 Ravens, so am curious where you derived your information from?

Williams was notorius for running both alignments in unique ways. Much like we saw with Pettine last year, his 4 fronts looked a lot like 3 fronts and vice versa. A lot of corner blitzes and interior pressure from Williams. He was unique at the time, but "hybrid" is so common now due to how much of a passing league we have. Pro football reference is a great site, but don't put too much stock in "base alignment" seeing that most downs are not run in base alignment and the nature of his version of the 46 often had LB's playing a wide "DL" position. A guy head up on the center and both guards. A pass rusher (DE or LB) on the weak side and loaded pressure on the strong side. Then switch. Pettine actually did a lot of this himself. He'd run a true NT spot in what's technically a 4 man front and put the DE's in 3 and 5. There's really no such thing as a true base alignment anymore and most teams are in nickel more often than any other formation anyway. Even the wide-9 often looks like a 34 at first glance to the average viewer. I think there's too much hype over base alignments as they don't have the same meaining as they did in the 80's and early 90's.

[pmoon6]

What little respect I had for this team is now gone. 14 years no playoffs. 12 years of season tickets, every season ending in embarrassment. I'll continue to follow but I don't care what happens.The Zone store is fully stocked with tissues and pacifiers.

I suggest the Anti-Fans take advantage.

[DraftBoy]

OK explain how wide nine is a horrible fit for a speed rusher like Mario.

Well for one Mario is not a speed rusher...

[DraftBoy]

I've used http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ as a point of reference and the only year I saw Schwarz involved as a D that ran a 3-4 were the 1996 Ravens, so am curious where you derived your information from?

Schwartz coached under Gregg Williams in 1999 and 2000 in both years they ran variable schemes that featured heavy 34 use.

[better days]

Well for one Mario is not a speed rusher...

What? Are you serious? Mario is STRONG, but also FAST.

He is fast enough to get in the backfield like he did this year & strong enough to set the edge on run plays.

He is IDEAL for the wide 9.

[Raptor]

No he's not, he's never coached the Wide 9 that was brought in by Cunningham and not installed by Schwartz.

Schwartz however has actually coached a base 34 (under Gregg Williams) and a base 43 (under Marvin Lewis).

So all this crap about him being a base 43 guy is completely false.

Completely wrong. If you dont think this guy is a 43 guy I seriously dont know what you've been watching

[Raptor]

Schwartz coached under Gregg Williams in 1999 and 2000 in both years they ran variable schemes that featured heavy 34 use.

Wrong again

[DraftBoy]

Completely wrong. If you dont think this guy is a 43 guy I seriously dont know what you've been watching

Where did I say that?

- - - Updated - - -


Wrong again

Ok...

[TedMock]

If Schwartz learned anything from Williams, Lewis and Belichick when he started, I hope it's to not marry a system. Williams ran just about any defense you can think of depending on the talent he had. Even though he leans on 4-fronts, he ran all sorts of stuff in Tennessee thanks to the versatile players: 43, 34, C2, 46, etc. He also ran more 3 fronts with the Saints. Belichick was known as a 3-4 guy in NY and pretty much still is, but ran more 4-3 in Cleveland. Both guys disguised their defensive fronts many ways. Even Pettine last year was not the "3-4" guy that people claim he was. Hopefully Schwartz takes the same approach. He will certainly favor 4 fronts, but I bet he makes it look similar to Pettine's defense in a lot of ways.

[BertSquirtgum]

The Zone store is fully stocked with tissues and pacifiers.

I suggest the Anti-Fans take advantage.

Make sure you save enough money to buy them for next year. You guys will be needing them.

[better days]

Make sure you save enough money to buy them for next year. You guys will be needing them.

Get over Pettine Hurkey.

You should be way more concerned about Hackett & Crossman than you are about Schwartz.

With Schwartz, the Bills will probably be able to stop the run & get off the field after 3rd downs.

[Beebe's Kid]

I just can't believe that Pettine actually took that HC job in Cleveland. He had the world by the short curly ones as a DC in Buffalo, and he let it all slip away.

[BertSquirtgum]

Get over Pettine Hurkey.

You should be way more concerned about Hackett & Crossman than you are about Schwartz.

With Schwartz, the Bills will probably be able to stop the run & get off the field after 3rd downs.

Really? You think I am done with this team because of Pettine? I couldn't care less. With how many posts you have, you would think that you have seen my post supporting hiring Schwartz.

[swiper]

Schwartz coached under Gregg Williams in 1999 and 2000 in both years they ran variable schemes that featured heavy 34 use.

He has, as most defensive coordinators do today, run multiple schemes.


Reminiscent of his time in Detroit, Schwartz corrected a couple reporters after questions during the news conference, including after one about the wide-9 scheme. Schwartz said the wide-9 will be part of his scheme, but won’t define it.

“Mostly that (label is) thrown around by people that couldn’t line it up if they wanted to,” he said. “That’s no disrespect to those people, but there are 32 teams in the NFL and all 32 of them line up in a wide-9. Not all of them are called wide-9 teams, but that’s just the way it goes.”



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140127/SPORTS0101/301270095#ixzz2rmmYfboQ

[swiper]

Really? You think I am done with this team because of Pettine? I couldn't care less. With how many posts you have, you would think that you have seen my post supporting hiring Schwartz.

Maybe it's hard for him to get past your avatar.

[malvado78]

Really? You think I am done with this team because of Pettine? I couldn't care less. With how many posts you have, you would think that you have seen my post supporting hiring Schwartz.

Posting =/= Reading

[BertSquirtgum]

I thought most normal people read the threads before posting. Maybe I was wrong.

[BillsFever21]

It sucks losing Pettine but people need to get over it. It's been so long since another team wanted any of our coaches for a HC or coordinator job people don't know how to react to it.

He did a decent job but was only here for one year. He wasn't even groomed by our team and came off the Rex Ryan coaching tree. Just be glad if it was going to happen it did now and not another year down the road. At least we can implement the new system without the players being used to playing in it for several years along with drafting and signing FA's that fit the previous system.

Considering this will be our 4th DC in 4 years it's not like the players aren't used to learning something new. The continuity would've been nice but if he was going to leave at least it happened now instead of later when we're hopefully competing for playoff spots.

[better days]

I thought most normal people read the threads before posting. Maybe I was wrong.

Well, I read your whining in this thread, but you really gave no reason in this thread for jumping off the ledge.

[BertSquirtgum]

Well, I read your whining in this thread, but you really gave no reason in this thread for jumping off the ledge.

You better try hooked on phonics. You can't read very well.

[better days]

You better try hooked on phonics. You can't read very well.

OK, lets SEE it.

[stuckincincy]

You better try hooked on phonics. You can't read very well.

I believe that's spelled "r u hukd on fonix."

[CommissarSpartacus]

Interesting how things turn out.

Schwart2 came in, IMPROVED the D and poof, he's gone...

[Fixxxer]

Interesting how things turn out.

Schwart2 came in, IMPROVED the D and poof, he's gone...

like Keyser Soze......

[justasportsfan]

meh. Mahdi was wrong about Fairley being better than Dareus as well.No big deal.

Where's Fletch though?

[swiper]

Interesting how things turn out.

Schwart2 came in, IMPROVED the D and poof, he's gone...

Marrone came in and improved the record ... and "poof" he's gone too.

Yet Russ Brandon lives on and on and on and on.

[Mahdi]

Dang.

[Mahdi]

meh. Mahdi was wrong about Fairley being better than Dareus as well.No big deal.

Where's Fletch though?

Not necessary to be bringing up things I was wrong about. We all have opinions that turn out to be either right or wrong.

I was wrong on Schwartz and wrong on Fairley. Clearly.

[WagonCircler]

This is a good bump, as bumps go.

[BertSquirtgum]

In a few months you'll be joining the pussy ass whiners.

No

[Historian]

THe Schwartz hire is a huge fail. Beyond frustrating

When have you ever been right about anything, dude?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Dang.

Sorry, my intention wasn't to embarrass you, just to point out that Schwart2 exceeded many peoples expectations.

I'm sure if we wnet back though the archives to see what people had to say about Rex Ryan for the last 6 years, there'd be a bunch more embarrassed people....

[Mahdi]

Sorry, my intention wasn't to embarrass you, just to point out that Schwart2 exceeded many peoples expectations.

I'm sure if we wnet back though the archives to see what people had to say about Rex Ryan for the last 6 years, there'd be a bunch more embarrassed people....

No worries

[Night Train]

THe Schwartz hire is a huge fail. Beyond frustrating

:rofl:

Not that I'm the least bit surprised. You consistently hit well below the Mendoza line.

[imbondz]

ha. whatever. didn't like Schwartz at the time. Obviously liked him as our DC. At the time I was pissed we were losing Pettine. I'm ok with what I said before he kicked ass as our coach.

[justasportsfan]

I'm sure if we wnet back though the archives to see what people had to say about Rex Ryan for the last 6 years, there'd be a bunch more embarrassed people....

Do it! Just do it!

[stuckincincy]

Do it! Just do it!

Even just the last season would suffice... :tip:

[justasportsfan]

Even just the last season would suffice... :tip:

I disliked Ryan and his mouth. I dislike BB more but I do respect BB. I'm still on the fence about Rexy as a HC .

[better days]

Sorry, my intention wasn't to embarrass you, just to point out that Schwart2 exceeded many peoples expectations.

I'm sure if we wnet back though the archives to see what people had to say about Rex Ryan for the last 6 years, there'd be a bunch more embarrassed people....

Well, I was right about Schwartz.

And if you look at my posts, you will see I have been a fan of Rex for a LONG time.

The Bills UPGRADED with the hire of Rex as HC.

[CommissarSpartacus]

And if you look at my posts, you will see I have been a fan of Rex for a LONG time.


Surprise, surprise...

[better days]

Surprise, surprise...

Should be no surprise.

I get it right much more often than not.

And Schwartz did not even get an interview from any team to be a HC.

Schwartz is a GOOD Defensive Coach but Rex is BETTER.

[CommissarSpartacus]

And Schwartz did not even get an interview from any team to be a HC.


I doubt he was looking for one. Don't forget, up until 10 days ago, he thought he was coming back for another season as DC. The thought of campaigning for a HC job wasn't in the picture. Sure, he accepted an invitation to talk about it with the new owners, but other than that, it seems he wasn't interested.

Schwart2 did himself a world of good last year.

If he sits out this year, his rep will only rise. He's not sweating.

Look, I am neither a fan or a hater of either guy, but as I said, for a number of reasons, not all of which are stats based, I thought it would be best for the continued improvement of the team that Schwart2 step into the spot.

Will Rex prove to be the guy? I hope so, just like I hoped Gregg, Mike, Dick, Chan and Doug would be the guy, even though I thought 4 of those 5 were useless, and the other was weak.. Cu2 that would mean the Bills were winning.

I think Schwart2 would have given us the best cjhance for immediate and future improvement.

I hope Rex proves me wrong.

[Buffalogic]

Every year Schwartz was in Detroit their run defense got better. They gave up points because they have a ****ty secondary. We don't. It should be a good combination.what astute analysis.