The "Wide 9" defensive scheme that Schwartz runs

[X-Era]

Interesting read.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2011/12/detroit_lions_wide_9_scheme_do.html

[swiper]

While the Lions have been successful at putting pressure on opposing quarterbacks, running backs and being menaces, in general to offenses, word on the street has it that some fans would like Detroit to move away from the Wide 9.

The reason? Admittedly, it maximizes the pass rush, as evidenced by the 19 sacks between Lions starting defensive ends Cliff Avril and Kyle Vanden Bosch. But critics say it's at the expense of the run defense, and point to the NFL-worst 5.2 yards per carry surrendered by the Lions.


So is it true you can't stop the run consistently with the Wide 9 defense?


"Anybody that says that doesn't know what they're talking about," head coach Jim Schwartz said, without elaborating. "I don't explain scheme, and I'm not making excuses for anything. We can play the run better than we have, but I'm not explaining scheme."

And the article is from December 2011. Jim Schwartz got more personally involved in the defense in 2013 and the run improved drastically.

[swiper]

It's all hybrid anyway these days. Nobody plays one scheme exclusively.

[pmoon6]

It's all hybrid anyway these days. Nobody plays one scheme exclusively.Yes, it's situational defense and the reason a lot of teams go up tempo offensively.

[swiper]

Yes, it's situational defense and the reason a lot of teams go up tempo offensively.

Who made this trendy way back when? K-Gun? :nod:

[X-Era]

And the article is from December 2011. Jim Schwartz got more personally involved in the defense in 2013 and the run improved drastically.I think it could force more teams to run up the middle. And if so, you need DE's and DT's that can quickly shed and move laterally to stop the runner at the line. Spreading them wider can give you bigger lanes to run in.

""Basically, you have to have some good rushing on the outside," Tulloch said. "Whenever you're in the Wide 9, you definitely have to have linebackers to fill those (running) lanes. I've been fortunate to have linebackers in Tennessee - in Keith Bulluck and David Thornton - and coming here, having (DeAndre) Levy and (Justin) Durant that understand the game and how to come downhill and fill their gaps."

[OLDSRIP]

It's all hybrid anyway these days. Nobody plays one scheme exclusively.

Except Dave Wanstadt!

[better days]

I think it could force more teams to run up the middle. And if so, you need DE's and DT's that can quickly shed and move laterally to stop the runner at the line. Spreading them wider can give you bigger lanes to run in.

""Basically, you have to have some good rushing on the outside," Tulloch said. "Whenever you're in the Wide 9, you definitely have to have linebackers to fill those (running) lanes. I've been fortunate to have linebackers in Tennessee - in Keith Bulluck and David Thornton - and coming here, having (DeAndre) Levy and (Justin) Durant that understand the game and how to come downhill and fill their gaps."

Well, I think the Bills have the DL to play the wide 9, but a LB like Spikes is needed.

Mario has the speed to get into the backfield & the strength to set the edge against the run.

[Night Train]

The hybrid comment is correct. The OLB's need to play behind the DE's who are lining up wide. They need to diagnose quickly whether it's a run back inside and slide towards the middle.

It also means having stout ILB play with the ability to swim through traffic and make plays at the LOS. No drag down tackling (Fletcheresque) 7-8 yards down the field or the opposition will just wear out the D with the power game.

[mrbojanglezs]

I don't think he ran the wide 9 in Tennessee

[coastal]

Sounds like another loser scheme.

[OpIv37]

Our DL would do well in this scheme. Our linebackers- that's a different story.

[swiper]

Except Dave Wanstadt!

That's why he's coaching special teams now!

[Don't Panic]

Well, I think the Bills have the DL to play the wide 9, but a LB like Spikes is needed.

Mario has the speed to get into the backfield & the strength to set the edge against the run.


Our DL would do well in this scheme. Our linebackers- that's a different story.

Good points. We are going to need some block-shedding LBs if this is going to work. In fact, I'd say Alonso might struggle a bit in a scheme like this. Where's Patrick Willis when you need him?

[swiper]

Good points. We are going to need some block-shedding LBs if this is going to work. In fact, I'd say Alonso might struggle a bit in a scheme like this. Where's Patrick Willis when you need him?

His name is Anthony Barr.

[mrbojanglezs]

Its important to realize that wide 9 is not a scheme its just a situational formation where the DEs play 9 technique

[Night Train]

Our DL would do well in this scheme. Our linebackers- that's a different story.

My thoughts exactly.

Schwartz is owed 3 years by the Lions, so he could have sat on his millions for a year or more. He accepted the Bills DC offer because the talented DL reminded him of his in Detroit and his D can't work without it. ILB's outside of Kiko must be identified. At least 2 more.

It's the ILB's that move up into the gaps in the Wide 9, so they must be physical. If UB's Mack was still on the board at #9 the Bills would select him in a minute, since he can play anywhere and has the Ray Lewis build. Yawin Smallwood of UConn, Chris Borland of Wisconsin and Shane Skov of Stanford also fit the profile of this D. ( Round 2-3 talent ) . Free Agency could fill this first but I see this as a top priority with Schwartz signed on.

[better days]

It's all hybrid anyway these days. Nobody plays one scheme exclusively.

Schwartz said wide 9 will be a part of what we do, but it wont define us.

He also said every team runs a wide 9 at one time or another.

And he reiterated what I read about him, the Defense will be aggressive & attack, it will not be a read & react defense.

He said defensive players will love to play in his scheme.

And he said the #1 thing was points. And his defense would work to keep points off the board.

Pretty much the same thing I have been saying for a long time.

You want to score points & keep the other team from doing so.

Yards don't really matter that much.

[Goobylal]

Schwartz said wide 9 will be a part of what we do, but it wont define us.

He also said every team runs a wide 9 at one time or another.

And he reiterated what I read about him, the Defense will be aggressive & attack, it will not be a read & react defense.

He said defensive players will love to play in his scheme.

And he said the #1 thing was points. And his defense would work to keep points off the board.

Pretty much the same thing I have been saying for a long time.

You want to score points & keep the other team from doing so.

Yards don't really matter that much.
Yep. For anyone interested, he talks about it at the 9:21 mark of his presser.

[justasportsfan]

One thing I loved about Pettine is that he didn't let qbs know where the blitz was coming from.This made Robey stick out I wonder where Schwartz is with that

[stuckincincy]

One thing I loved about Pettine is that he didn't let qbs know where the blitz was coming from.This made Robey stick out I wonder where Schwartz is with that

Probably just fine. I'm not clear why folks have concerns about this 9-wide thing or whether this new DC will be favoring a 4-3 or 3-4. Any DC worth his salt adapts scheme to the personnel he has. If he's bent on a change - that's what the drafts and FA is for.

Schwartz has been around the block - I've little concern about strategy. The only concern would be about his personality, how it meshes with the players and other staff members. And that's simply something to be seen.

[X-Era]

http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/sports/breaking-jim-schwartz-wide-9-defense/

[swiper]

http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/sports/breaking-jim-schwartz-wide-9-defense/

After reading through the LB descriptions: this is why I really like the idea of drafting Anthony Barr. He's big. 6' 4" and 248 lbs coming out of college.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nrLiKA-IUG0/UqUjPC-jzxI/AAAAAAAAADk/ux9Mfk6eNbs/s1600/web.sp_.6.10.barr_.picA_-640x410.jpg

He'd make a good compliment to Alonso.

[justasportsfan]

Schwartz has been around the block - I've little concern about strategy. The only concern would be about his personality, how it meshes with the players and other staff members. And that's simply something to be seen. As I look back to when we hired Pettine, there were questions about Pettines experience as a DC than Schwartz. The more I read into Schwartz, the more I am hearing good things about what people/players have to say a about him. It's just hard for me to warm up to him because of what Pettines did with this D in comparison to Wanny and we were hoping for continuity. This D would have been sick under Pettines 2nd year once we plugged in the holes .

Simply put, if Scwhartz was hired after Wanny, no one would be having doubts.

[mysticsoto]

After reading through the LB descriptions: this is why I really like the idea of drafting Anthony Barr. He's big. 6' 4" and 248 lbs coming out of college.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nrLiKA-IUG0/UqUjPC-jzxI/AAAAAAAAADk/ux9Mfk6eNbs/s1600/web.sp_.6.10.barr_.picA_-640x410.jpg

He'd make a good compliment to Alonso.

If Barr is available on our 1st pick, I absolutely take him also!!! But I don't think he will be...

[swiper]

If Barr is available on our 1st pick, I absolutely take him also!!! But I don't think he will be...

Depends how many teams take QBs in front of the Bills.

[X-Era]

Depends how many teams take QBs in front of the Bills.Agreed.

If two or three QB's go before 9 I think we will see one or two of the following players sitting there at 9:

Watkins, Barr, or Mack

[better days]

Well, I heard Kyle Vanden Bosch talk about the wide nine on John Murphys show.

He said, Schwartz is a great game planner & his defense varies from game to game.

He said the wide 9 is used against teams that want to spread the field like the Colts.

The wide 9 shortens the field against those type of teams.

[better days]

Oh, & Vanden Bosch said the Bills have a good DL to run the wide 9.

[mysticsoto]

Agreed.

If two or three QB's go before 9 I think we will see one or two of the following players sitting there at 9:

Watkins, Barr, or Mack

I doubt Watkins or Barr will be there. But Mack likely will.