OK, One more time, all together now...

[YardRat]

"Defense wins championships."

Veeeery good.

[WagonCircler]

And one more time for those of us from Buffalo:

"I ******* hate Super Bowls."

[BuffaloRedleg]

Because I'm sure they would have made the playoffs and won the Superbowl with Trent Edwards at QB.

[pmoon6]

"Defense wins championships."

Veeeery good.Yeah, no matter how hard the NFL tries to make it like Arena Ball, defenses find a way to adapt and overcome. I love defense and I loved this game.

Oh, and Peyton Manning, Peyton Manning. Bwahahahahahahaha.

[TacklingDummy]

Because I'm sure they would have made the playoffs and won the Superbowl with Trent Edwards at QB.
Defenses win Championships, Quarterbacks get you there.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Defenses win Championships, Quarterbacks get you there.

I'll buy that. Hopefully EJ is our guy. I think this defense is competent enough to make the playoffs and be a force. It's the anemic offense that can't keep our defense off the field that is killing us.

[Night Train]

I agree that D wins the hardware... but this was one of those unique years where a D completely carries a team... like the 1985 Bears, 1986 Giants and the 2000 Ravens.

Saying Russell Wilson won the SB is the equivalent of saying Trent Dilfer won the SB for the Ravens in 2000. He received the ring in a gift box from his D.

I like Wilson but lets get visit reality concerning the Seahawks key to victory.

[YardRat]

Because I'm sure they would have made the playoffs and won the Superbowl with Trent Edwards at QB.

Wilson could be on the same level as Flacco and Eli...decent QB's that play well when their defense is strong, not so well when it isn't. Seattle's defense has been one of the best in Wilson's tenure, so we'll have to see.


Defenses win Championships, Quarterbacks get you there.

Ozzie Newsome just called, he thought so at one point also, but now he's second-guessing himself.

[Historian]

I told everyone I work with three weeks ago to enjoy the NFC Championship because it was going to be the defacto SB...

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I agree that D wins the hardware... but this was one of those unique years where a D completely carries a team... like the 1985 Bears, 1986 Giants and the 2000 Ravens.

Saying Russell Wilson won the SB is the equivalent of saying Trent Dilfer won the SB for the Ravens in 2000. He received the ring in a gift box from his D.

I like Wilson but lets get visit reality concerning the Seahawks key to victory.

Russell Wilson did not win it for them no. But outside of that first pass, he played really really well. His throws were on the mark bullets. He is more than a game manager, IMO. If the D even had an average game, Wilson played well enough to pull it out yesterday

[The Beef]

He made some plays on 3rd down to extend some drives and don't turn the ball over. Wilson is a ballet don't get it twisted. At one point Seattles average start was like the 43 yard line. So the stats aren't going to be ridiculous.

That said, you can't make a game any easier for th QB. Start with a 2-0 lead 12 seconds in. Peyton hits Chancellorndeep on the next possession. Then the pick six. Harvin then closes the game on the opening kick of the second half.

Wilson didn't have to do much but that's not his fault.

Side note, you have to hope the Bills D make a true leap next year. Seattle dominates with physicality and a great pass rush. I truly believe he bills D is a piece or 2 away from being a defense that can control games week in and week out.

Need to make sure the offense isn't a 3 and out machine again to help them as well.

[alohabillsfan]

The bronco fans didn't travel that was 80-20 in favor of the Seahawks! Well done Seattle!! It was defense, special teams and offense that win it! Everything went seattles way. Sometimes it happens hell it happened against the bills in the Super Bowl too.

[alohabillsfan]

Like the rams in 2000? Or the patriots in 2002/04/05? Colts in 2007 or lmao saints in 2010?

[Novacane]

Dominating defenses win championships and those aren't easy to build. We see one every decade or so. You have to get lucky finding players in later rounds that turn into stars like Seattle has. Unless you have one of those you better have a good QB or you won't get to the SB.

[Historian]

Seattle's DBs are lightning fast and hit like a pickup truck....

[Night Train]

Dominating defenses win championships and those aren't easy to build. We see one every decade or so. You have to get lucky finding players in later rounds that turn into stars like Seattle has. Unless you have one of those you better have a good QB or you won't get to the SB.

Scheming to your roster has a ton to do with it. Hats off to Carroll and his DC. They had a pretty good idea some of those late picks would fit, based on the D they planned to run. Luck only runs so far.

[feldspar]

I wouldn't go around making blanket statements like "defenses win championships." Way too cliche. It's a team sport.

It's ALWAYS about matchups, and also who shows up...not to mention a whole bunch of unpredictable turn of events such as the way the ball bounces. Game plans, in-game decisions...sometimes even the refs, which is the worst.

As for this game, the Broncos were dominated in all three phases of the game.

If this game were to be played again, I highly doubt it would unfold even NEARLY the same way. Maybe they should have the Superbowl be a best two-out-of-three tournament? Dunno, probably not, but it's an idea... other sports generally have where you play the same team more than once. Football is too brutal of a sport to do that throughout the playoffs, but I'd probably enjoy it if winning the title was based on more than just a single game...weed out the anomalies that way.

[Uncle Jesse]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Manning, Rodgers and Brees's titles are recent ones where it was the QB and the offense.

[jdaltroy5]

If you take the offensive and defensive ranking of the last ten Super Bowl winners and average it out, it almost identical. 11.4 for offense and 11.7 on defense.

Sure, defense wins championships, but so does a good offense. I think it's safe to say that good TEAMS win championships.

[justasportsfan]

I guess Colorado's cannabis is stronger than Washingtons because they sure were too stoned to do anything.

[EDS]

If you take the offensive and defensive ranking of the last ten Super Bowl winners and average it out, it almost identical. 11.4 for offense and 11.7 on defense.

Sure, defense wins championships, but so does a good offense. I think it's safe to say that good TEAMS win championships.

Now you are just making things up!!!

In any event Seattle won't be able to do anything after the Bills raid their defense for Alan Branch . . .

[Bill Cody]

I agree that D wins the hardware... but this was one of those unique years where a D completely carries a team... like the 1985 Bears, 1986 Giants and the 2000 Ravens.

Saying Russell Wilson won the SB is the equivalent of saying Trent Dilfer won the SB for the Ravens in 2000. He received the ring in a gift box from his D.

I like Wilson but lets get visit reality concerning the Seahawks key to victory.

Russell Wilson is pretty good. A lot better than Dilfer. I'd be pretty psyched if EJ ever got to the level Wilson is at right now and he's still improving. Sure the defense won the game but there's no reason to downplay Wilson's contribution. Simply put you need a very good QB to win. Look at the teams in the playoffs year in and year out, they all have very good to great QB play. You can win with a good offense and a great defense or you can win with a great offense and a good defense. This year it was great defense good offense. Seattle coverted on 3rd down. That was a big part of the game. The defense was bigger but Wilson was very sharp.

[Mike13]

Russell Wilson is pretty good. A lot better than Dilfer. I'd be pretty psyched if EJ ever got to the level Wilson is at right now and he's still improving. Sure the defense won the game but there's no reason to downplay Wilson's contribution. Simply put you need a very good QB to win. Look at the teams in the playoffs year in and year out, they all have very good to great QB play. You can win with a good offense and a great defense or you can win with a great offense and a good defense. This year it was great defense good offense. Seattle coverted on 3rd down. That was a big part of the game. The defense was bigger but Wilson was very sharp.

Has Wilson ever had to put the game on his back?

[Novacane]

Scheming to your roster has a ton to do with it. Hats off to Carroll and his DC. They had a pretty good idea some of those late picks would fit, based on the D they planned to run. Luck only runs so far.



Sure they deserve their share of credit but finding the best CB in the league and one of the best/meanest safties both in the 5th round is luck.

[Bill Cody]

Has Wilson ever had to put the game on his back?

I don't watch many of their games so I couldn't say. Not sure he has to very often with that D. But my point is if EJ ever has a season with a 101 QB rating and 8.25 YPA he's going to be pretty good. What's your point? That he's not that important to their success? If so I strongly disagree. When I was a kid the Bears always had a good to great D and they did nothing other than a short window around 1985. And 85 was the year they got a very good year out of Jim McMahon. A great D without very good to great QB play usually gets you nothing.

[Mike13]

I don't watch many of their games so I couldn't say. Not sure he has to very often with that D. But my point is if EJ ever has a season with a 101 QB rating and 8.25 YPA he's going to be pretty good. What's your point? That he's not that important to their success? If so I strongly disagree. When I was a kid the Bears always had a good to great D and they did nothing other than a short window around 1985. And 85 was the year they got a very good year out of Jim McMahon. A great D without very good to great QB play usually gets you nothing.

Oh he is important, he is a good game manager with a hell of a team around him. Much like Chad Pennington.
I just dont think he is great, yet.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Has Wilson ever had to put the game on his back?

The 2012 division round game against Atlanta
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201301130atl.htm

Last night, he wasn't anything magical but he didn't really need to be. When they needed 6 yards on 3rd, he'd get them 7. When they needed to avoid a sack or turnover, he'd throw it away. I don't understand why fans bash "game managers." Not screwing it all up, especially in the playoffs, is really damn hard. Ask Andy Dalton.

[YardRat]

Like the rams in 2000?

Yes


Or the patriots in 2002/04/05?

Definitely. Haven't won a title since their defense went downhill and Brady became a thrower.


Colts in 2007

Most definitely. Peyton's worst playoff run, ever. The defense stepped up right from the start and carried it through until the end.


or lmao saints in 2010?

Maybe the closest counter argument, but still...24-17 (kind of low considering the prolific offenses on both sides), iced by a pick 6 by NO defense, and despite 600+yards combined passing yards the offenses combined for a whopping four TD's, or 1 per quarter.

[YardRat]

Just for the record, I think Wilson played a really good game yesterday and did exactly what he had to do to help win by not screwing up and losing it. That's all you need in a QB.

[feldspar]

Well, the Bills are set to have a really good defense at any rate, even more so if they keep Byrd around.

People like to just repeat the fact that the Bills had the 28th-ranked run defense, but that's based on total yards. But only 4 other teams ATTEMPTED more rushes against any defense this year, so of course they are going to gain more yards. The Bills were better than that in terms of yards per attempt, and anyone that watched the games saw that they were a lot better against the run this year. Consistency was a problem, and they allowed lots of BIG runs, which drives up the stats.

[Uncle Jesse]

If you take the offensive and defensive ranking of the last ten Super Bowl winners and average it out, it almost identical. 11.4 for offense and 11.7 on defense.

Sure, defense wins championships, but so does a good offense. I think it's safe to say that good TEAMS win championships.

Yup. I would say 5 of the last 10 Superbowl winners are because of QB and offense...the other 5, defense.

[jdaltroy5]

When I was looking up the stats, it seemed like it was possible to win with a good offense and lousy defense, but much more rare to win with a good defense and lousy offense.

The Giants (2011), Saints, and Indy all won with a top ten offense and bottom tier defense (20-32), but the only team to win with a top ten defense and bottom tier offense was Pittsburgh in '05.

All the teams that won with a good defense had at least an average offense.

[Novacane]

When I was looking up the stats, it seemed like it was possible to win with a good offense and lousy defense, but much more rare to win with a good defense and lousy offense.

The Giants (2011), Saints, and Indy all won with a top ten offense and bottom tier defense (20-32), but the only team to win with a top ten defense and bottom tier offense was Pittsburgh in '05.

All the teams that won with a good defense had at least an average offense.


But the cliche defense wins championships sounds so good!

[feldspar]

But the cliche defense wins championships sounds so good!

Here is another great cliche:

The best defense is a good offense.

Now what?

[Crisis]

And that defense that carried them has two elite safeties... hmm

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Yeah, no matter how hard the NFL tries to make it like Arena Ball, defenses find a way to adapt and overcome. I love defense and I loved this game.

Oh, and Peyton Manning, Peyton Manning. Bwahahahahahahaha.

I agree with the first part, and being from KC --where everyone jumped on the Chiefs Bandwagon after they started out 9-0, strangely enough many of these very same people were sporting donkey shirts after the Chefs lost in the post season -- I could see why you are happy that someone shut up a team with a big bandwagon following, but I still contend that Manning is a likeable guy. If this had happened to Tom Brady, on the other hand, I'd be laughing so much you could hear it as far away as Europe.

[pmoon6]

Oh he is important, he is a good game manager with a hell of a team around him. Much like Chad Pennington.
I just dont think he is great, yet.Well, I think success early in a players' career is a springboard. Tom Brady was nothing more than a game manager his first couple years. NE in 2001 was much like Seattle. Defense and strong running game. The early success built Brady's confidence, so he could continue to work/learn, without a lot of pressure, and become the QB he is today.

[TacklingDummy]

Yup. I would say 5 of the last 10 Superbowl winners are because of QB and offense...the other 5, defense.
And the past 11 Super Bowl winning QB, 10 are future HOF, the 1 who the jury is still out on is Wilson. If his career stays the way his first 2 years was, you can say the past 11 Super Bowl winners had HOF Quarterbacks.

[pmoon6]

And the past 11 Super Bowl winning QB, 10 are future HOF, the 1 who the jury is still out on is Wilson. If his career stays the way his first 2 years was, you can say the past 11 Super Bowl winners had HOF Quarterbacks.Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are not HOF QBs....yet.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are not HOF QBs....yet.

I think Roethlisraper is. But I agree that Flacco and E. Manning are not

[TacklingDummy]

Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are not HOF QBs....yet.

Eli is getting in.
If Flacco continues to play the way he has been, so will he.

[jdaltroy5]

Eli is getting in.
If Flacco continues to play the way he has been, so will he.I agree with Moonie. None of those guys are HOF material yet.

They have been borderline top five/ten QBs at the HEIGHT of their careers and still have never been considered in the same class as the truly elite like Brady, P. Manning, Brees, or Rodgers.

There are only 23 QBs in the HOF and IMO, these guys just don't belong with them.

[TacklingDummy]

I agree with Moonie. None of those guys are HOF material yet.

They have been borderline top five/ten QBs at the HEIGHT of their careers and still have never been considered in the same class as the truly elite like Brady, P. Manning, Brees, or Rodgers.

There are only 23 QBs in the HOF and IMO, these guys just don't belong with them.

If Eli doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame than Jim Kelly doesn't.

[TacklingDummy]

If Eli doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame than Jim Kelly doesn't.

Their stats are almost identical except for Eli having 2 Super Bowl rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Their stats are almost identical except for Eli having 2 Super Bowl rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

ok, but stats are definite inflated these last 5-6 years due to rule changes

[pmoon6]

If Eli doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame than Jim Kelly doesn't.Eli Manning doesn't transend eras. Put him in the NFL when Kelly played and Kelly in the new age NFL. Eli would be pedestrian and Jim Kelly would have Tom Brady numbers.

[jdaltroy5]

If Eli doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame than Jim Kelly doesn't.It's hard to just compare numbers straight up because they are from different eras, but if you compare them relative to their peers, I think Jim comes out on top.

Jimbo has played one extra season over Manning at this point in his career so it's fair to compare the two. Kelly was in the top 5 in yardage 3 times, top 5 in TDs 5 times, and top 5 in INT 4 times. Eli has been top 5 in yards 3 times, top 5 in TDs 3 times, and top 5 in INT 5 times.

If you want to take that one step further, Kelly was top 3 in yardage twice, top 3 in TDs twice, and top 3 in INTs once. By contrast, Eli has never been top 3 in yards or TDs, but top 3 in INTs 4 times.

In addition, Kelly has been to the Pro Bowl 5 times, receiving both a first and second team nomination in separate years. Manning has only been to the Pro Bowl three times and has never been an All Pro. Kelly also has 6 division titles under his belt and a .617 winning percentage while Manning only has 3 and a .563 winning percentage.

Kelly was arguably the best QB in the league in '91 and was undoubtedly in the top 5 for several years. Eli was arguably in the top 5 at the peak of his career.

The ONLY thing that Eli has over Jimbo is the two Super Bowls, but I don't know if that's enough to push him over the edge at this point.

[WagonCircler]

Eli Manning doesn't transend eras. Put him in the NFL when Kelly played and Kelly in the new age NFL. Eli would be pedestrian and Jim Kelly would have Tom Brady numbers.

True, Moonie, but that's part of the reason he might get in.

A certain amount of QBs from every era will always get in, because the position is exponentially more complex than any other. So, when you look at the current era, you've got a few slam dunks, Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc., but then you've got a big drop off. Roethlisberger will get in just because he has 2 rings and the league loves the Steelers, and I think that may open the door for Eli, who plays in NYC and will be the benefactor of the large media contingent from there.

I think if Eli has one more decent year, to prove that last year was an anomaly, he gets in.

[pmoon6]

True, Moonie, but that's part of the reason he might get in.

A certain amount of QBs from every era will always get in, because the position is exponentially more complex than any other. So, when you look at the current era, you've got a few slam dunks, Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc., but then you've got a big drop off. Roethlisberger will get in just because he has 2 rings and the league loves the Steelers, and I think that may open the door for Eli, who plays in NYC and will be the benefactor of the large media contingent from there.

I think if Eli has one more decent year, to prove that last year was an anomaly, he gets in.I know, but if Eli goes in, so should Kenny Stabler. Hell, I'd even put Roman Gabriel and John Brodie in as well.

I'm only saying who should go in, not who will.

[jdaltroy5]

True, Moonie, but that's part of the reason he might get in.

A certain amount of QBs from every era will always get in, because the position is exponentially more complex than any other. So, when you look at the current era, you've got a few slam dunks, Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc., but then you've got a big drop off. Roethlisberger will get in just because he has 2 rings and the league loves the Steelers, and I think that may open the door for Eli, who plays in NYC and will be the benefactor of the large media contingent from there.

I think if Eli has one more decent year, to prove that last year was an anomaly, he gets in.I don't know if Ben gets in. Statistically, he's much worse than Eli.

He's never been in the top 5 in yards, and has only cracked the top ten 4 times. Typically, he's in the middle of the pack. As for TDs, he's only cracked the top 5 once and is typically only slightly above average.

He's also only made the Pro Bowl twice in ten years.

I don't think he deserves it.

[WagonCircler]

I'm only saying who should go in, not who will.

Me too. And Stabler should definitely be in.

[WagonCircler]

I don't think he deserves it.

I'm not sure he deserves it either. But the Steelers thing improves his odds dramatically.

[The Jokeman]

If Eli doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame than Jim Kelly doesn't.

As a Bills fan I question Kelly's election in the HOF as to me he was too much of a riverboat gambler at times and toss in he was horrible in every Super Bowl. Then again I've always maintained QB is the most overrated position in all of team sport. That said Eli and Big Ben will probably make it to the HOF when they call it a career as long as they can maintain top 10 play at their positions but if Eli keeps playing like he did last year that's a tougher argument.

[WagonCircler]

As a Bills fan I question Kelly's election in the HOF as to me he was too much of a riverboat gambler at times and toss in he was horrible in every Super Bowl. Then again I've always maintained QB is the most overrated position in all of team sport. That said Eli and Big Ben will probably make it to the HOF when they call it a career as long as they can maintain top 10 play at their positions but if Eli keeps playing like he did last year that's a tougher argument.

First of all, he was not horrible in any of the Super Bowls. He was kept on the sidelines for most of SB XXV. The Bills were thoroughly out-coached and out-game planned.

He wasn't great in XXVI, but he wasn't terrible, and he mounted a strong comeback in the second half.

In XXVII, he broke his leg in the first quarter.

In XXVIII, he was far from terrible.

It's called the Pro Football Hall of Fame, by the way, not the NFL Hall of Fame. So if you add his gaudy USFL numbers to his NFL numbers, he's ridiculous career-wise.

And, if anything, the complexity of the QB position is underestimated, especially the way Kelly played, as a de facto Offensive Coordinator on the field.

four AFC Championships in a ****** row. That alone is HOF worthy.

It's your post that's horrible.

[The Jokeman]

First of all, he was not horrible in any of the Super Bowls. He was kept on the sidelines for most of SB XXV. The Bills were thoroughly out-coached and out-game planned.

He wasn't great in XXVI, but he wasn't terrible, and he mounted a strong comeback in the second half.

In XXVII, he broke his leg in the first quarter.

In XXVIII, he was far from terrible.

It's called the Pro Football Hall of Fame, by the way, not the NFL Hall of Fame. So if you add his gaudy USFL numbers to his NFL numbers, he's ridiculous career-wise.

And, if anything, the complexity of the QB position is underestimated, especially the way Kelly played, as a de facto Offensive Coordinator on the field.

four AFC Championships in a ****** row. That alone is HOF worthy.

It's your post that's horrible.
He was kept on the sidelines in XXV because he couldn't sustain drives. Toss in horrible clock management in that final drive. It's been widely reported that he called a timeout prematurely because he's claimed to hear Levy telling him to call one but it's unfounded. He killed a good four or five seconds after the Thurman run before the FG attempt that could have been used to make an effort for one more play to make WIDE RIGHT a more realistic distance. XXVI I won't even comment how bad he was early that helped put us in the hole. XXVII fine he broke his leg I can't fault him for that. XXVII I still regret his poor play in that drive after the Odomes interception. One also has to wonder if everyone clamoring how great Kelly was had the Broncos kicker not been so horrible in the 1991 AFC Championship and Carlton Bailey's pick 6. Yet ultimately the NFL is a team game and the Bills teams of the 90s was better than most of the rest of the AFC but not nearly as good as the teams we played in the Super Bowls and why we lost all four of them.

[WagonCircler]

He was kept on the sidelines in XXV because he couldn't sustain drives. Toss in horrible clock management in that final drive. It's been widely reported that he called a timeout prematurely because he's claimed to hear Levy telling him to call one but it's unfounded. He killed a good four or five seconds after the Thurman run before the FG attempt that could have been used to make an effort for one more play to make WIDE RIGHT a more realistic distance. XXVI I won't even comment how bad he was early that helped put us in the hole. XXVII fine he broke his leg I can't fault him for that. XXVII I still regret his poor play in that drive after the Odomes interception. One also has to wonder if everyone clamoring how great Kelly was had the Broncos kicker not been so horrible in the 1991 AFC Championship and Carlton Bailey's pick 6. Yet ultimately the NFL is a team game and the Bills teams of the 90s was better than most of the rest of the AFC but not nearly as good as the teams we played in the Super Bowls and why we lost all four of them.

First of all, he scored too quickly. That's a LOT different from failing to sustain drives. That's the way the Offense was set up to operate. The problem in that game had nothing to do with the Offense, it was Marv's front Walt Corey who was exposed. And Jeff Wright was the weakest link, which allowed OJ Anderson to run over the Bills D with clock killing impunity.

And the clock management was MARV's fault. It's well documented that making TO calls in the last two minutes were his decision.

And you TRIED to fault him for breaking his leg, but I called you out on your *********.

FOUR F U C KI NG AFC Championships in a row, and your lame ass is nitpicking on one or two plays?

Good Lord. You obviously have some sort of personal axe to grind with the greatest Bills player of all time. No other possible reason for over-the-top douchebaggery like this.

[WagonCircler]

One also has to wonder if everyone clamoring how great Kelly was had the Broncos kicker not been so horrible in the 1991 AFC Championship and Carlton Bailey's pick 6. .

Seriously? You do understand that the Bills went from a perennial 2-14 joke to a team that, had it not been for a corrupt Ronnie Harmon, would have been in SIX consecutive AFC Championship games. You get that, right Corky?

[The Jokeman]

Seriously? You do understand that the Bills went from a perennial 2-14 joke to a team that, had it not been for a corrupt Ronnie Harmon, would have been in SIX consecutive AFC Championship games. You get that, right Corky?

Kelly is treated by a God by some fans when truth is he was not as great as some make him out to be. Give me John Elway if want a QB in that era. Also it's odd you can call out Harmon for one play but I can't do the same for Kelly. As I do fault Kelly big time for the loss in XXV because his third down completion percentage was horrid and that's why I say he couldn't sustain drives. So yes, I have issues with him as think he was a good QB who had some serious faults one of which he wasn't at his best in the most important game of the season.

[pmoon6]

Kelly is treated by a God by some fans when truth is he was not as great as some make him out to be. Give me John Elway if want a QB in that era. Also it's odd you can call out Harmon for one play but I can't do the same for Kelly. As I do fault Kelly big time for the loss in XXV because his third down completion percentage was horrid and that's why I say he couldn't sustain drives. So yes, I have issues with him as think he was a good QB who had some serious faults one of which he wasn't at his best in the most important game of the season.You must have been one of the people that wanted Kelly gone in 1989.

Fact One. Elway didn't call his own plays, neither did Marino or any other QB of that era.

Fact Two: Kelly versus Elway was and even split with us beating Denver in the most important game they played against each other, the Conference championship. Kelly lost 4 SBs, Elway 3. Against Marino, he was 16-8 with two playoff wins.

Fact Three: Kelly' third down percentage in XXV was horrid because of the defense the Giants were running, the same scheme Belichick employed to hold "The Greatest Show On Turf" to 17points.

So, if you want to blame the QB, which I don't, for SB losses, I guess you're in the Peyton Manning is a choker club.

I sometimes think because Jimbo is adored by many, there are a certain percentage of fans that are turned off by that, so they have to find ways to be critical.

One thing is certain. Even though we didn't win the SB, the Kelly era was the most exciting and wonderful time to be a fan in the history of the franchise. The two AFL championships come close, but winning the AFL is remembered just like winning the WFL or USFL. Remember who were champions in those leagues?

[TacklingDummy]

It's called the Pro Football Hall of Fame, by the way, not the NFL Hall of Fame. So if you add his gaudy USFL numbers to his NFL numbers, he's ridiculous career-wise.

Good point, so whens Flutie getting in?

[Rob's House]

I agree that D wins the hardware... but this was one of those unique years where a D completely carries a team... like the 1985 Bears, 1986 Giants and the 2000 Ravens.

Saying Russell Wilson won the SB is the equivalent of saying Trent Dilfer won the SB for the Ravens in 2000. He received the ring in a gift box from his D.

I like Wilson but lets get visit reality concerning the Seahawks key to victory.

No matter how many times this gets said it's never going to become true. Anyone who believes Trent Dilfer wasn't an intregal part of that SB team & win honestly doesn't know what they're talking about. That team couldn't buy a win & was all but left for dead before Dilfer took over. He was the perfect fit for that team and helped them win.

[swiper]

Men...

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Boy:

http://www.thefatwhiteguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0_61_eli_manning_320.jpg

[sukie]

"Defense wins championships."

Veeeery good.

A dominant D like we saw this year from Seattle is rare. Seattle, San Fran, and perhaps Carolina had dominating defenses. 3 teams of the 32. It's much harder to win a championship with a dominating D. How do you attain that if there are maybe only 3 of them presently? A Franchise QB is an easier route.... look how many franchise QBs there are out there.

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A dominant D like we saw this year from Seattle is rare. Seattle, San Fran, and perhaps Carolina had dominating defenses. 3 teams of the 32. It's much harder to win a championship with a dominating D. How do you attain that if there are maybe only 3 of them presently? A Franchise QB is an easier route.... look how many franchise QBs there are out there.

Aaron Rodgers agrees.


Aaron Rodgers: “Unrealistic” to use Seahawks as goal for defense

Posted by Josh Alper on February 5, 2014, 9:23 AM EST
http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/25535795d8502e07129fc768d3e8a639-e1391610200963.jpeg?w=235
Getty Images
It has been said more than once over the years that the NFL is a copycat league, which would suggest that several teams around the league will be using the Seahawks as a model for building their own teams.

Emulating their defense would seem to be a particular attraction for other teams, but Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3118/aaron-rodgers) cautioned teams not to expect much immediate success going down that route during his weekly radio show on 540 ESPN. Rodgers said that’s as true of his team as it is of the 30 others trying to get where Seattle did on Sunday night.

“With all due respect, I don’t think it’s possible (http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=34881) to play at that kind of level for many other teams in this league, if any,” Rodgers said. “That’s a talented group. I don’t think that should be our goal. We do need to improve on both sides of the ball, but that team has a unique mixture of secondary talent that’s as good a group in the league as you can see, and then a front seven that really plays well together. It should be maybe the standard we’re going for, but it might be a little unrealistic to think of any defense being as good as that for the next couple years.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/05/aaron-rodgers-unrealistic-to-use-seahawks-as-goal-for-defense/

[The Jokeman]

You must have been one of the people that wanted Kelly gone in 1989.

Fact One. Elway didn't call his own plays, neither did Marino or any other QB of that era.

Fact Two: Kelly versus Elway was and even split with us beating Denver in the most important game they played against each other, the Conference championship. Kelly lost 4 SBs, Elway 3. Against Marino, he was 16-8 with two playoff wins.

Fact Three: Kelly' third down percentage in XXV was horrid because of the defense the Giants were running, the same scheme Belichick employed to hold "The Greatest Show On Turf" to 17points.

So, if you want to blame the QB, which I don't, for SB losses, I guess you're in the Peyton Manning is a choker club.

I sometimes think because Jimbo is adored by many, there are a certain percentage of fans that are turned off by that, so they have to find ways to be critical.

One thing is certain. Even though we didn't win the SB, the Kelly era was the most exciting and wonderful time to be a fan in the history of the franchise. The two AFL championships come close, but winning the AFL is remembered just like winning the WFL or USFL. Remember who were champions in those leagues?
Kelly's ego and gambling style of QB just irks me is all. Brett Favre played the same way and didn't like it either. I prefer a Tom Brady/Ken O'Brien type QB is all. Peyton did choke in the Super Bowl but also can give the Seahawks/Belechick credit for coming up with great D's that held great O's in check. As they Seahawks played an awesome game and I loved every minute of it that they were able to keep the Broncos in check and made enough plays on offense to win it. As to me a great defense always gives you a chance to win more then a great offense.

[pmoon6]

Kelly's ego and gambling style of QB just irks me is all. Brett Favre played the same way and didn't like it either. I prefer a Tom Brady/Ken O'Brien type QB is all. Peyton did choke in the Super Bowl but also can give the Seahawks/Belechick credit for coming up with great D's that held great O's in check. As they Seahawks played an awesome game and I loved every minute of it that they were able to keep the Broncos in check and made enough plays on offense to win it. As to me a great defense always gives you a chance to win more then a great offense.OK, man. I got it now.

Peace.

[Historian]

People forget that Kelly dominated the USFL for two years too.

I know it wasn't the same as the NFL, but again, he did dominate.