Isles Pick Dilemma Thread

[coastal]

Ok... they could conceivably end up with 2nd worst schedule.

I still think they are faced with a tough choice. They are faced with the prospect of having to trade away two key assets or lose them altogether.

The Isles could be headed toward a minor rebuild themselves.

the key for them will be how competitive they think they can be next year.

This is going to be one very interesting story to watch.

one last thing... thank you Darcy.

[chernobylwraiths]

If they end up with a top 5 pick this year, I say they keep it and defer the 1st to next year. And Vanek should at least bring them another 1st. ( if they are smart, they defer the pick till next year and trade Vanek for a 2015 first.

[Ginger Vitis]

If they end up with a top 5 pick this year, I say they keep it and defer the 1st to next year.

Agreed.. It would be bad PR to have given up a Top 5 pick for a guy who played less than a year for you.. You didn't come close to making the playoffs with him.. And he never had any intention of staying

[JATMtheJATM]

from everything ive heard, the isles will defer. its all speculation but thats what i read.

[don137]

It's a crap shoot for Islanders. If they get a top three pick this year and the Sabres get Connor McDavid with that pick Isles fans will revolt to the point where it would cost Snow his job. If they give the Sabres the pick this year in hopes of having an extra chance at McDavid next year and they don't get him the fans will revolt.

[coastal]

Here's the thing... If they end up top 3 or 4, how do they go into next year thinking they r going to be better than where they r now?

[Skooby]

Here's the thing... If they end up top 3 or 4, how do they go into next year thinking they r going to be better than where they r now?

I think you have to assume that you could be better than 87% of the league in the standings, that forces the Isles to defer.

[swiper]

Ok... they could conceivably end up with 2nd worst schedule.

I still think they are faced with a tough choice. They are faced with the prospect of having to trade away two key assets or lose them altogether.

The Isles could be headed toward a minor rebuild themselves.

the key for them will be how competitive they think they can be next year.

This is going to be one very interesting story to watch.

one last thing... thank you Darcy.

Yeah. I heard that Vanek trade was a terrible one.

[coastal]

I think you have to assume that you could be better than 87% of the league in the standings, that forces the Isles to defer.yeah but why... they are 2 points away from having the 3rd worst record in the league.

we already know Vanek is gone... MacDonald will be gone too.

[Downinfloflo]

yeah but why... they are 2 points away from having the 3rd worst record in the league.

we already know Vanek is gone... MacDonald will be gone too.

Because they can score goals, Even with out Vanek their right in the thick of things.

Their is a rumor they could land Fasth from the Ducks...They do not have a goalie, Hard to win with out one of those..They get a simple average goalie that draft pick falls out of the top 5 easily.

[coastal]

Because they can score goals, Even with out Vanek their right in the thick of things.

Their is a rumor they could land Fasth from the Ducks...They do not have a goalie, Hard to win with out one of those..They get a simple average goalie that draft pick falls out of the top 5 easily.
They're right in the thick of things?

Calgary and Florida have two games in hand and are only a point behind.

theyre in the thick of challenging for a top 3 pick.

thats more than just goalie problems.

[Downinfloflo]

They're right in the thick of things?

Calgary and Florida have two games in hand and are only a point behind.

theyre in the thick of challenging for a top 3 pick.

thats more than just goalie problems.

Sorry you miss understood that's my fault.

What I meant was in goals scored, Their right there with the rest of the NHL and some of it's top teams, They have 162 goals (Penguins have 182) scored they are 10 goals off from 6th in the entire NHL that's pretty dam good.

Now Goalie, That's a disaster, Their best goalie has a .909 SA% and their back up has a .891 SA% and their 3rd goalie has a .877 SA%...You will not win with these numbers.

Martin could end up on the Ducks as part of a package for Fasth..

[JATMtheJATM]

the isles score alot, sure.

the isles also made the playoffs in a shortened season.

its an anomaly at this point. the isles may have a good offense, but they need more then that to compete. they need a goalie. where are they going to get one? they need defense. its not a simple fix for the isles.

[Downinfloflo]

the isles score alot, sure.

the isles also made the playoffs in a shortened season.

its an anomaly at this point. the isles may have a good offense, but they need more then that to compete. they need a goalie. where are they going to get one? they need defense. its not a simple fix for the isles.

Read post #12...LOL

And no, They don't need more then that to get out of the top five in the draft next year.

[Downinfloflo]

the isles score alot, sure.

the isles also made the playoffs in a shortened season.

its an anomaly at this point. the isles may have a good offense, but they need more then that to compete. they need a goalie. where are they going to get one? they need defense. its not a simple fix for the isles.



They have 3 rookies starting at that position, And 4 of their D-Men are 24 years old or younger.And they can get a Goalie in the FA market or via trade, There are a lot of good back ups out there.


1) Matt Donovan(D): 23 year old Rookie (4th round 2008)

2) Thomas Hickey(D): 24 year old Rookie (Drafted 4th overall 2007)

3) Calvin DeHaan(D): 22 year old Rookie (Drafted 12th overall 2009)

4) Travis Hamonic(D): 23 year old (2nd round 2008)


When you have a 38 year old goalie, and and 3 Rookies still learning the NHL game, playing in front of him, Keeping the puck out of the net is going to be a problem.

Now next year they may bring up Griffin Reinhart, 20 year old Defense Men (Drafted 4th over all 2012)

Now having all these young guy's on defense could hurt the Islanders, Just goes to show how long it takes for young talent to develope.


Now for Goalie..


#1) Evgeni Nabakov is 38 years old and on his last leg.

#2) Kevin Poulin (5th round 2008) is a 23 year old Rookie with 49 games under his belt and a record of W: 18 L: 25 and a .900 SV% and a 3.08 GAA.

#3) Anders Nilsson (3rd round 2009) is a 23 year old Rookie with 10 games under his belt.

#4) Stephon Williams (4th round 2013) In the System--NCAA.

#5) Emon McAdam ( 3rd round 2013) In the System--NCAA.


The draft could make you a hero or a zero rather quickly.Something you Sabres fans should really pay attention too.

[Downinfloflo]

Oh....And I forgot to mention the Islanders prospects are ranked 5th in the NHL by Hockeys Future.



Strengths:The New York Islanders own one of the largest groups of defensive prospects in the entire NHL. They do not just have quantity along the blue line, either, as Matt Donovan, Griffin Reinhart, Ville Pokka, Ryan Pulock, and Scott Mayfield all project as top-four defensemen in the NHL.

Up front, the team is led by Ryan Strome, who is currently heading the attack for the Islanders' AHL affiliate in Bridgeport. After Strome, the team appears confident that Brock Nelson has a future in the NHL as a top-nine forward. Anders Lee is another prospect who possesses good NHL potential.

[Ginger Vitis]

Oh....And I forgot to mention the Islanders prospects are ranked 5th in the NHL by Hockeys Future.

5 days ago you said Hockeys Future was **** lol

[Downinfloflo]

5 days ago you said Hockeys Future was **** lol

It's for JATM..

Swing and a miss....

[JATMtheJATM]

Oh....And I forgot to mention the Islanders prospects are ranked 5th in the NHL by Hockeys Future.

and i believe the islanders long term are healthy. but like you keep saying about the sabres, prospects take time. are the isles prospects NHL ready? even if they are, they probably cant contribute towards the playoffs their rookie year.

[JATMtheJATM]

Read post #12...LOL

And no, They don't need more then that to get out of the top five in the draft next year.

people were saying the same thing this season. everyone was so sure the isles were going to make the playoffs.

who knows what happens, but ill wait and see what moves the isles make before i think they are going places next year. and as you just pointed out, the isles defense is REALLY young. dmen take time.

[mightysimi]

I think the pens will make a play for vanek. They will be able to move letang to long term injury and free up the cash to make the trade for a draft pick and a non-roster player.

[JATMtheJATM]

tavares out for the rest of the olympics. no time table for his return, but its safe to wonder if that means NHL time missed as well. if so, expect the isles to sink deeper...

[coastal]

tavares out for the rest of the olympics. no time table for his return, but its safe to wonder if that means NHL time missed as well. if so, expect the isles to sink deeper...
If that pick becomes McDavid... nothing good like that ever happens to Buffalo sports.

[JATMtheJATM]

If that pick becomes McDavid... nothing good like that ever happens to Buffalo sports.

and its safe to assume buffalo will have a top 3 pick next year... good lord...

[coastal]

and its safe to assume buffalo will have a top 3 pick next year... good lord...Eichel McDavid...

[JATMtheJATM]

Eichel McDavid...

*cums everywhere*

[coastal]

*cums everywhere*
I know man.... crank!

[JATMtheJATM]

I know man.... crank!

i cant look too forward to 2015. sabres have an important decision to make in june of 14. should be interesting.

[Skooby]

Eichel McDavid...

My shorts are soiled.

[coastal]

i cant look too forward to 2015. sabres have an important decision to make in june of 14. should be interesting.
Yes it should be interesting. We look to be near a lock to finish last.

will likely have our pick of Reinhart or Bennett

[Ginger Vitis]

Tavares is out for the rest of the year

[jdaltroy5]

With JT out, you've have to think the Isles are going to be auctioning off everything that isn't bolted down.

[JATMtheJATM]

With JT out, you've have to think the Isles are going to be auctioning off everything that isn't bolted down.

pretty much. that vanek trade looks massively one sided now. the isles just took a massive step backwards.

[Skooby]

pretty much. that vanek trade looks massively one sided now. the isles just took a massive step backwards.

Which will afford the Sabres a pretty good pick either this year or next.

[JATMtheJATM]

apparently, garth snow had a meltdown today regarding the injury, blasting the IIHF and IOCC. i kinda expect him to get canned. and if so, they might start over again in the rebuild. i think the isles are going to be bad again next year.

[Ginger Vitis]

i kinda expect him to get canned. and if so, they might start over again in the rebuild. i think the isles are going to be bad again next year.

Schopp and Bulldog from WGR think this is well. They think Snow gets canned and Isles owner and new GM gives the Sabres their 2014 1st Round pick even if it is No.4 or No.5. Schopp thinks the Isles would be so determined to keep the 2015 !st Rounder they would give the Sabres The No.1 Pick if The Isles won the lottery which I think is ridiculous no way the Isles would do that

[Downinfloflo]

LOL...You poor guys are going to be so disappointed.

You think because J.T is out for the rest of a lost season that the Islanders are going to need to rebuild, Really?

Loosing Vanek in a trade is not the end of the world, They will get talent back in return, The same with Martin.

Add their top pick from this upcoming draft and a serviceable goalie in the offseason and that 2015 pick the Sabres got will not be a top 5.

You guys need to do your homework..

You folks got a very long 5 years ahead of you...LOL

[JATMtheJATM]

LOL...You poor guys are going to be so disappointed.

You think because J.T is out for the rest of a lost season that the Islanders are going to need to rebuild, Really?

Loosing Vanek in a trade is not the end of the world, They will get talent back in return, The same with Martin.

Add their top pick from this upcoming draft and a serviceable goalie in the offseason and that 2015 pick the Sabres got will not be a top 5.

You guys need to do your homework..

You folks got a very long 5 years ahead of you...LOL

theres a good chance tavares misses portions of next year as well. and chances are, the isles top pick this year wont be an impact pick if its outside the top 3, which it likely will be. the isles are moving backwards. not forwards.

[Ginger Vitis]

theres a good chance tavares misses portions of next year as well. and chances are, the isles top pick this year wont be an impact pick if its outside the top 3, which it likely will be. the isles are moving backwards. not forwards.

Id say at the most 5 players from this years draft could play in the NHL next year and get regular minutes..

[Skooby]

LOL...You poor guys are going to be so disappointed.

You think because J.T is out for the rest of a lost season that the Islanders are going to need to rebuild, Really?

Loosing Vanek in a trade is not the end of the world, They will get talent back in return, The same with Martin.

Add their top pick from this upcoming draft and a serviceable goalie in the offseason and that 2015 pick the Sabres got will not be a top 5.

You guys need to do your homework..

You folks got a very long 5 years ahead of you...LOL

Our farm team is stocked with talent that will all be ready within 2 years, add in a few very high draft picks & we're at least talking playoffs. We're not winning the cup or anything but we'll be a 7th-8th seed, IMHO.

[Downinfloflo]

Our farm team is stocked with talent that will all be ready within 2 years, add in a few very high draft picks & we're at least talking playoffs. We're not winning the cup or anything but we'll be a 7th-8th seed, IMHO.

So is the Islanders.

[JATMtheJATM]

Id say at the most 5 players from this years draft could play in the NHL next year and get regular minutes..

i think that many as well, but its unlikely any of those would help a playoff team in his first year with the exception of maybe reinhart

[Downinfloflo]

theres a good chance tavares misses portions of next year as well. and chances are, the isles top pick this year wont be an impact pick if its outside the top 3, which it likely will be. the isles are moving backwards. not forwards.

Do your homework.

The Islanders going backwards is just the homer in you wishing it to be true.

[JATMtheJATM]

Do your homework.

The Islanders going backwards is just the homer in you wishing it to be true.

maybe, maybe not. because posters were saying how the islanders werent going to miss the playoffs THIS year when vanek was traded to them. and we see how far they sunk. now their franchise player suffers a catastrophic knee injury thats going to take 6 months to a year to heal, and the isles are in great shape? like i said, ill let this play out, thank you.

[Downinfloflo]

How many Islanders games do you watch???

[Skooby]

So is the Islanders.


Do your homework.


The Islanders going backwards is just the homer in you wishing it to be true.



Well they're drafting 5th right now & trail 6th by 8 points. Tavares being out (probably into next season) will set them back & Vanek is as good as gone, so their talent pool isn't improving soon.

[Downinfloflo]

Well they're drafting 5th right now & trail 6th by 8 points. Tavares being out (probably into next season) will set them back & Vanek is as good as gone, so their talent pool isn't improving soon.



Is Vanek going away with out any sort of return?

How is the Islanders offense?

Their problem is they have a 38 year old broken goalie.

I'll ask you the same question.Do you watch the Islanders play?

[Downinfloflo]

Tavares has 8 months until the start of next season, He's a young kid with great Doctors.

[Skooby]

Is Vanek going away with out any sort of return?

How is the Islanders offense?

Their problem is they have a 38 year old broken goalie.

I'll ask you the same question.Do you watch the Islanders play?

No but are they going to play over .500 hockey from here on out ? There's 22 games left & they're 8 losses below .500, do you think they're going to win 15 of 22 to get back to .500 ? How pray tell are they going to improve so much, especially now without Tavares ?

http://m.espn.go.com/nhl/standings?season=2014&groupId=-1

[Downinfloflo]

No but are they going to play over .500 hockey from here on out ?

http://m.espn.go.com/nhl/standings?season=2014&groupId=-1

This year don't mean anything..

The Islanders are going to give the Sabres their 2015 pick.

And the Sabres will not land McDavid with it, They have their own pick to do that...LOL

[JATMtheJATM]

How many Islanders games do you watch???

enough to know they are one of the worst teams in the league. their franchise player is out with a horrible knee injury, about to lose vanek (probably get picks or a prospect in return for him) and dont have a goalie for next year yet. theres too many ifs and buts for me to think positively about the team next year.

hey, they might be good next year. and they might be bad. right now, i dont like what i see for them going into next year. who knows, maybe they address all their holes. but till that happens, im going to assume its not going to change dramatically.

[Ginger Vitis]

maybe they address all their holes.

What is hilarious is DowninFloFlo gives you crap for treating potential 1st Round picks "like a security blanket" yet is pinning a lot of hope on the Isles 2014 !st Round pick having enough of a impact to keep the Isles out of the 2015 lottery

[Downinfloflo]

What is hilarious is DowninFloFlo gives you crap for treating potential 1st Round picks "like a security blanket" yet is pinning a lot of hope on the Isles 2014 !st Round pick having enough of a impact to keep the Isles out of the 2015 lottery

Of course you both see it that way, You're emotional.

You are the Islanders...Just 5 years earlier....LOL

[Skooby]

Isles will suck for years to come, so pay now or pay next year.
Of course you both see it that way, You're emotional.

You are the Islanders...Just 5 years earlier....LOL

[Downinfloflo]

Isles/Sabres will suck for years to come, so pay now or pay next year.

Fixed it for you...Grab a case of snickers bars.

[JATMtheJATM]

Eh, the sabres are in year two of a rebuild. it didnt just start.

[jdaltroy5]

The Isles made the playoffs last year and gave Sid and the Pens a go of it in the first round.

They were a bottom five team this year BEFORE their only star player was injured.

So, yes, they are going backwards.

[JATMtheJATM]

The Isles made the playoffs last year and gave Sid and the Pens a go of it in the first round.

They were a bottom five team this year BEFORE their only star player was injured.

So, yes, they are going backwards.

and theres no reason why the cant go forward next year, if they make the right moves. but till they do, im not going to assume this year is an anomaly. but last year was.

[JATMtheJATM]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/john-tavares-injury-impacts-canada-the-islanders-and-sabres/

this tavares thing is looking sour for the islanders.

[coastal]

Tavares' injury pretty much solidifies for the Isles a top 5 pick... if not top 3 pick.

JT will be back by training camp.

they're a little further along in their rebuild than the Sabres, because well... they have Tavares.

outside of that... not really seeing where they are poised to do substantially better next year.

[Downinfloflo]

This was a great post about the Sabres and Islanders pick ordeal..


As an outsider, just wanted to put my 2 cents in on the isles/sabres draft pick situation:
-No way do I see the isles giving up a top 3 (likely) overall pick this year to the sabres
-Next year if the isles finish with another top 5 pick, Garth Snow is fired, so you will see him guns a blazing next season if they are even close to getting another top 5 pick early in the season.
-Anyone who looks at the islanders on paper knows GOALTENDING is their biggest problem. Overall this season, they have had an .898 save percentage for their goaltenders. Borderline worst goals allowed/gm in the nhl, BUT 17th in shots allowed/gm. Offensively this year, they are 17th in goals/gm and 14th in shots/gm. Middle of the pack. Thus easily concluding, even with losing vanek and adding strome+(possibly reinhart/ekblad/etc), anything close to average goaltending should get them LOGICALLY an overall a 8th overall to 16th overall pick, most likely ~10th to 14th overall.

SO, Isles fans saying they are certainly making the playoffs next year about their 1st rounder next year, are right now overly optimistic. BUT, Sabres fans saying they are getting a top 7th overall pick next year from the isles, are also right now being overly optimistic.

As an outsider looking in, the most logical place to put the isles 1st round pick next year is 10th to 14th overall. No worse than 8th barring major injuries/historically worst goaltending, no better than 16th barring some above and beyond additions or surprises.

[Downinfloflo]

LOL...


Buffalo fans seem strangely butt-hurt over something or other. On one hand they're convinced they ripped the Isles off with this trade, and are also convinced this somehow automatically means McDavid is already being fitted for a Buffalo jersey. On the other hand, some are now offering this pick back to the Isles in a trade?!?!Bottom line is the Isles will obtain a real goalie at some point and spend at FA time(they have to to reach the floor). There is no reason to think the Isles won't be markedly better next year. Even a modest improvement, say, 5 extra wins, from where they are now puts them around 10th worst in the league, making the Sabres chance of winning the lottery with that pick around 2%.

Good luck with that.

[JATMtheJATM]

Tavares' injury pretty much solidifies for the Isles a top 5 pick... if not top 3 pick.

JT will be back by training camp.

they're a little further along in their rebuild than the Sabres, because well... they have Tavares.

outside of that... not really seeing where they are poised to do substantially better next year.

they might make some moves that will make them better, sure. but till they do that, im going to assume same ole from them. they are further along in their rebuild too. but expect some significant improvement from some kids next year. doesnt mean itll show in the points column. but i expect some growth from the kids next year.

[Skooby]

The Sabres can't score so one might think they'll get #1 all on there own but there's always the islanders who can mutually fail as well. I can't say anything about next year but one might safely assume the Sabres have 3 high picks in the next few years, however it plays out. Flo's douching about it now to make himself feel better won't change this much, even though he doesn't know the end results & our ability to fail should be noted.

Give the Sabres 3 early picks plus our young guys should equate to some level of success, however limited today.

[swiper]

apparently, garth snow had a meltdown today regarding the injury, blasting the IIHF and IOCC. i kinda expect him to get canned. and if so, they might start over again in the rebuild. i think the isles are going to be bad again next year.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/10494887/new-york-islanders-gm-garth-snow-wants-nhl-players-olympics

[Ginger Vitis]

I can't say anything about next year


Well I can.. The Sabres don't have to get a Top 5 pick from the Isles to have gotten great value for Vanek. A scout on Hockeys Future has C Travis Konecny as his No.8 Prospect for the 2015 draft and thinks if Konecny was 2014 draft eligible he would "easily go Top 3".. So what does that tell you about how strong 2015 Top 10 class is. Even the Isles giving the Sabres pick pick 12 or 14 is good value for a player who had no intention of coming back

[JATMtheJATM]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/10494887/new-york-islanders-gm-garth-snow-wants-nhl-players-olympics

and it should anger him! tavares is one of the best players in the league. he is actually underrated in the attention he gets.

[coastal]

and it should anger him! tavares is one of the best players in the league. he is actually underrated in the attention he gets.would you trade Buffalo's 2014 and 2015 1st round picks and the 1st round pick we got from the isles for John Tavares?

[JATMtheJATM]

would you trade Buffalo's 2014 and 2015 1st round picks and the 1st round pick we got from the isles for John Tavares?

no. but not because tavares isnt worth it. i feel thats too many pieces to give up for one player. the sabres need more then one player.

plus, i dont want to give up a shot at mcdavid or eichel.

if the sabres were closer, maybe then. but as it is, giving up multiple lottery picks sounds like a really bad idea.

[Downinfloflo]

Islanders' Tavares won't need surgery, out 8 weeks

New York Islanders (http://islanders.nhl.com/) captain John Tavares (http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8475166) told reporters on Tuesday that surgery would not be required on his injured knee and he will have to undergo eight weeks of rehabilitation.

Tavares sustained a torn MCL and torn meniscus in his knee on Feb. 26 while playing for Canada at the 2014 Sochi Olympics

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=706381&navid=nhl:topheads

[Skooby]

Islanders' Tavares won't need surgery, out 8 weeks



New York Islanders (http://islanders.nhl.com/) captain John Tavares (http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8475166) told reporters on Tuesday that surgery would not be required on his injured knee and he will have to undergo eight weeks of rehabilitation.

Tavares sustained a torn MCL and torn meniscus in his knee on Feb. 26 while playing for Canada at the 2014 Sochi Olympics

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=706381&navid=nhl:topheads

I told you guys he was a tough F-er, here it is point blank.

[coastal]

He's still done for this year... and cartilage doesn't heal itself so I'm wondering what kind of a tear he has.

[Skooby]

He's still done for this year... and cartilage doesn't heal itself so I'm wondering what kind of a tear he has.

Just like his team.

[DetDannyWilliams]

by the way we now know when the Islanders have to let the Sabres know if they are keeping their pick or deferring it to the Sabres in 2015

New York doesn't have to decide which pick to give Buffalo until after the draft lottery.

[GOBILLSGO!!!]

So if they defer, do we get anything additional next year? or is it just a first this year or a first next year?

[chernobylwraiths]

So if they defer, do we get anything additional next year? or is it just a first this year or a first next year?

Either this year's first or next year's first. That's it.

[Skooby]

Either this year's first or next year's first. That's it.

The Isles look to be a lock for top 5 this upcoming draft, so I'd expect them to defer to 2015 & hope they can do better than that. The problem is that if they defer our pick to 2015 & have the #1 pick, they'd just kick themselves.