Not Good News For The Anti Ej Group

[Yasgur's Farm]

...But good news for Bills fans as a whole

NFL.com, Elliot Harrison – No. 23
Buffalo should be in an excellent salary-cap situation, meaning it can fill several small holes at linebacker, on the offensive line and in the secondary, and figure out what to do with Jairus Byrd (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/profile). Coach Doug Marrone (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://www.nfl.com/player/dougmarrone/2520180/profile)has so much young talent; it will be up to his staff to develop it. Drafting another 'backer would be pleasant, too.

Yahoo Sports, Frank Schwab – No. 23 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/shutdown-corner-nfl-power-rankings-seattle-starts-finishes-062926506--nfl.html)
Doug Marrone already announced quarterback <nobr>EJ Manuelhttp://www.buffalobills.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster/ej-manuel/b82e36fa-61ba-42fc-835b-f86cfd2a31fb/)</nobr> will be his 2014 starter, and that was the right move. But now it's on Manuel to show that was the correct call.

Bleacher Report, David Daniels – No. 24 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1929140-nfl-power-rankings-updated-standings-heading-towards-2014-super-bowl)
Four of Buffalo's 10 losses were decided by seven points or less, despite EJ Manuel missing six games due to injury. It's a competitive club that's one strong offseason and a healthy core away from playoff contention.

ESPN.com – No. 25 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings)
If EJ Manuel can stay healthy, the Bills could compete next season. The defense finished top five in sacks, interceptions, opponent completion percentage and opponent Total QBR.

CBS Sports, Pete Prisco – No. 26 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/powerrankings)
It's all about the growth of EJ Manuel next season. He has to improve. And he will.

Pro Football Focus – No. 26 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/02/power-rankings-week-17-2/)
Kinks remain in need of ironing, but the Bills showed some fight and with that defensive line and a talented rookie linebacker in the middle, there’s already plenty to look forward to for 2014 – just have to keep the QB on field to be sure of what they have in him.

SB Nation, Jason Chilton – No. 26 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://www.sbnation.com/2013/12/31/5258376/2013-nfl-power-rankings-seahawks-browns-chiefs-saints)
New Year's Resolution - One foot in front of the other. It may not have been totally reflected in their 6-10 record, but the Bills did a lot of things right in 2013. They've assembled a defense with talent at all three levels and put together a solid cadre of weapons for E.J. Manuel, though his triple dose of knee injuries kept him from exploiting them for much of the season. Sticking to the plan will have the Bills in as good a position as anyone when Tom Brady finally falters. Of course, apportioning snaps with the realization that <nobr>C.J. Spillerhttp://www.buffalobills.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster/cj-spiller/57e42512-c2ee-4ca7-8400-f1d85b3dbfcd/)</nobr> is one of the NFL's five most explosive players wouldn't be a bad idea either.

USA Today – No. 28 (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/rankings/)
Will strides made on defense be lost without departed coordinator Mike Pettine around?

Bleacher Report, Eric Mack – Offseason prediction (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1947898-nfl-offseason-guide-2014-team-by-team-primer-and-predictions/page/5)
Quarterback
Yes. EJ Manuel showed enough in his first year to at least get a few years of a leash on his development.

Offseason Prediction
The Bills need to keep their defense intact, which require a second-year franchise tag or a long-term contract for Jairus Byrd. We will go with the latter and pencil in University of Buffalo linebacker Khalil Mack (no relation to the writer) as their No. 1 pick. New defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz should like that collection of talent he inherits.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Power-rankings-and-outllooks-on-the-2014-season/16c943d0-615b-4d39-90c3-0572d5ae2d68 (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Power-rankings-and-outllooks-on-the-2014-season/16c943d0-615b-4d39-90c3-0572d5ae2d68)

[K-Gun]

if, if, if

Yeah, I think EJ deserves the start next season. But if he doesn't have a winning season, straight up, we draft another qb in 2015.

[Night Train]

They can root for his kidneys to fail. :up:

[JoeMama]

Bleacher Report, Eric Mack – Offseason prediction (https://email.nfl.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=bb0502b809ca4e12910df756006e6923&URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1947898-nfl-offseason-guide-2014-team-by-team-primer-and-predictions/page/5)
Quarterback
Yes. EJ Manuel showed enough in his first year to at least get a few years of a leash on his development.

No, I don't think he bought himself "a few years" with his oft-injured rookie campaign. He bought himself another 7-8 games as the unquestioned starter tops, subject to change if he stinks up the joint.

We need to treat EJ like he's on a month-to-month lease with the Bills. No coddling the kid and telling him he's got 3-4 years to do whatever.

He either shows great strides and remains healthy or we need to move on without him. We can't afford to put all our eggs in another bust QB's basket.

[better days]

No, I don't think he bought himself "a few years" with his oft-injured rookie campaign. He bought himself another 7-8 games as the unquestioned starter tops, subject to change if he stinks up the joint.

We need to treat EJ like he's on a month-to-month lease with the Bills. No coddling the kid and telling him he's got 3-4 years to do whatever.

He either shows great strides and remains healthy or we need to move on without him. We can't afford to put all our eggs in another bust QB's basket.


EJ bought himself one year minimum to prove himself, not 7-8 games.

The only way EJ does not start every game next year is if he gets injured again.

[JoeMama]

EJ bought himself one year minimum to prove himself, not 7-8 games.

The only way EJ does not start every game next year is if he gets injured again.

And what's the over/under on that happening, I wonder?

I agree the kid did enough good things to justify giving him another shake.

But I disagree with the notion that he earned another 2-3 years as unquestioned starter based on his rookie season. He wasn't good enough to receive that kind of leverage.

If you think he deserves more than 8 games, fine, I won't split hairs over it. But no way does he deserve more than a one year commitment based on what we've seen so far. He needs to prove himself as he goes.

[Yasgur's Farm]

IMO... He's got 2014. If he doesn't achieve the following stats, we draft again in 2015...

My clear definition of necessary progress... At least 14 healthy starts with projected 16 game stats of >60% completion >3,500 passing yards, >7 YPA, >20 passing TD's, <12 INT's, >80 passer rating, >9 wins.

[Skooby]

I like EJ & would love for him to succeed. I feel we need an insurance policy where if EJ sustains another injury (which isn't out of the realm of possibility), we have the ability to potentially move forward with a new project. I hope we draft another QB in the first 4 rounds this year for the just in case, I don't see EJ holding up a whole season after having both knee injuries.

[The Popcorn]

I don't understand all the EJ hate. So he struggled in his rookie season... big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. I hope he learned a few things and continues to get better. Get him a WR and some OL help and he should be ok.

[Skooby]

I don't understand all the EJ hate. So he struggled in his rookie season... big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. I hope he learned a few things and continues to get better. Get him a WR and some OL help and he should be ok.

It's health concerns for me, not hate. We need to find a QB who can stay on the field & be consistent, EJ hasn't shown anything close to it yet.

[The Popcorn]

It's health concerns for me, not hate. We need to find a QB who can stay on the field & be consistent, EJ hasn't shown anything close to it yet.


I can see you feeling that way after two seasons but one? I don't think he had any kind of injuries prior to last season. Aren't you going into the 'Sky is falling' mode a little early?

[Albany,n.y.]

I don't understand all the EJ hate. So he struggled in his rookie season... big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. I hope he learned a few things and continues to get better. Get him a WR and some OL help and he should be ok.

It's not hate, it's impatience. There's a good reason for impatience. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 14 years. 3 active QBs (Brady, Roethlisberger & Wilson) won the Super Bowl in their 2nd seasons. With a few exceptions, by the end of their 2nd seasons, you pretty much know if a QB is a bust or is NFL starter material. That's especially true of a guy who has started as a rookie. Look at Cleveland-I think it's pretty safe to say that they really screwed the pooch when they drafted Brandon Weeden. He looks like a backup at best. Meanwhile QBs drafted 2 years ago in the 1st 3 rounds are pretty well established after their 2nd year: Luck, Wilson, & Foles are entrenched as starters. Tannehill has shown enough to remain the Dolphins starter. RGIII was injured after a stellar rookie year and if he returns to form from the injury add him to the list, if not, he won't get too much more time & will go down as a star whose career was ruined by injury. Of the highly drafted QBs the only one we have no clue about is Brock Osweiler, because he has been buried behind Peyton Manning the past 2 years.
EJ better have a good season next year, because in this day & age there's no such thing as giving a QB a few years.

[YardRat]

He absolutely has to stay healthy for the vast majority of next season.

[better days]

It's not hate, it's impatience. There's a good reason for impatience. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 14 years. 3 active QBs (Brady, Roethlisberger & Wilson) won the Super Bowl in their 2nd seasons. With a few exceptions, by the end of their 2nd seasons, you pretty much know if a QB is a bust or is NFL starter material. That's especially true of a guy who has started as a rookie. Look at Cleveland-I think it's pretty safe to say that they really screwed the pooch when they drafted Brandon Weeden. He looks like a backup at best. Meanwhile QBs drafted 2 years ago in the 1st 3 rounds are pretty well established after their 2nd year: Luck, Wilson, & Foles are entrenched as starters. Tannehill has shown enough to remain the Dolphins starter. RGIII was injured after a stellar rookie year and if he returns to form from the injury add him to the list, if not, he won't get too much more time & will go down as a star whose career was ruined by injury. Of the highly drafted QBs the only one we have no clue about is Brock Osweiler, because he has been buried behind Peyton Manning the past 2 years.
EJ better have a good season next year, because in this day & age there's no such thing as giving a QB a few years.

If RG III does not perform like his rookie year, I think it will have more to do with Opposing teams having learned how to defend against him much more than his injury.

[Albany,n.y.]

If RG III does not perform like his rookie year, I think it will have more to do with Opposing teams having learned how to defend against him much more than his injury.

I don't buy that because nobody has stopped Kaepernick or Wilson & both play a similar style. The reason RGIII had a bad sophomore season was he lacked mobility, which was directly due to his injury.

[better days]

I don't buy that because nobody has stopped Kaepernick or Wilson & both play a similar style. The reason RGIII had a bad sophomore season was he lacked mobility, which was directly due to his injury.

Well, I don't buy that RGIII has as good an arm as Wilson or Kaepernick.

Without the mobility, RGIII was severely limited in what he could do.

I think both Wilson & Kaepernick would still be effective QB's even if their mobility was limited.

[sudzy]

I wasn't a fan of the EJ pick. Only a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade and a half, would draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB, in a bad year for QBs. Picking the wrong QB could set you back 4-5 years. This thread kind of proves that. IF EJ doesn't pan out, the Bills probable won't give up on him for a couple more years. I hope EJ proves me wrong, but, I haven't seen anything yet, that leads me to believe he's going to be great (or even good). Maybe in 3-4 years we will draft another QB, for the sake of drafting a QB and the wait till next year crowd will have plenty to talk about.

[better days]

I wasn't a fan of the EJ pick. Only a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade and a half, would draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB, in a bad year for QBs. Picking the wrong QB could set you back 4-5 years. This thread kind of proves that. IF EJ doesn't pan out, the Bills probable won't give up on him for a couple more years. I hope EJ proves me wrong, but, I haven't seen anything yet, that leads me to believe he's going to be great (or even good). Maybe in 3-4 years we will draft another QB, for the sake of drafting a QB and the wait till next year crowd will have plenty to talk about.

Only time will tell if last years class was worse or better than this years.

But I have seen nothing from this years class to make me want to give up on EJ to draft any one of them.

[bleve]

I don't understand all the EJ hate. So he struggled in his rookie season... big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. I hope he learned a few things and continues to get better. Get him a WR and some OL help and he should be ok.

I agree that some help is needed, but how many times have you seen "Get {insert mediocre QB name here} some WR and some OL help, and he should be ok"?

Nobody hates the guy. I think most of us agree he stunk it up last year, so you can conclude that a) He stinks, or b) he's a rookie and needs time to develop.

If you're in the "a" group, you can look at the issues he has and say they are the same ones he had in college. FSU looked a lot better with essentially the same team with someone else at QB. The Bills' offense looked better this year with someone not named EJ playing the QB position, and you may conclude that he's not ever going to be the guy. A legitimate conclusion.

On the other hand, you can say EJ has never had a full NFL offseason to learn the playbook, get to know receivers, get professional coaching full time, get OTA's and full pre-season, etc.
I fall in the latter group, but I'm skeptical, and would not give him too long of a leash.

[better days]

I don't buy that because nobody has stopped Kaepernick or Wilson & both play a similar style. The reason RGIII had a bad sophomore season was he lacked mobility, which was directly due to his injury.

And I think Mike Vick is a better comparison to RGIII than Kaepernick or Wilson.

Both Vick & RGIII have proven to be nothing better than mediocre if they can not make plays with their feet.

Both were mediocre last year.

And teams have learned to defend against Vick.

I think those same principals will be applied to RGIII in defending against him.

[Skooby]

And I think Mike Vick is a better comparison to RGIII than Kaepernick or Wilson.

Both Vick & RGIII have proven to be nothing better than mediocre if they can not make plays with their feet.

Both were mediocre last year.

And teams have learned to defend against Vick.

I think those same principals will be applied to RGIII in defending against him.

In the mean time, they developed Foley between Vick's injuries. Donkey's ratings almost set an NFL record, which leaves Vick out in the cold. We have to have someone to develop, separate of EJ.

[JoeMama]

I don't understand all the EJ hate. So he struggled in his rookie season... big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. I hope he learned a few things and continues to get better. Get him a WR and some OL help and he should be ok.

All the EJ hate?

Only a small contingency of Bills fans are being irrational haters.

I think most Bills fans are willing to give the kid a fair shake, the only disagreement is how long we give him to develop.

But I know the type you're talking. They say he sucks now, so he sucks forever. And no matter how his career pans out, they'll tell you how awful he is even if he gets a few probowls or even a superbowl.

[Skooby]

All the EJ hate?

Only a small contingency of Bills fans are being irrational haters.

I think most Bills fans are willing to give the kid a fair shake, the only disagreement is how long we give him to develop.

But I know the type you're talking. They say he sucks now, so he sucks forever. And no matter how his career pans out, they'll tell you how awful he is even if he gets a few probowls or even a superbowl.

How about a group of games without an injury first, let's start with something simple.

[JoeMama]

How about a group of games without an injury first, let's start with something simple.

That would be nice.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, I don't buy that RGIII has as good an arm as Wilson or Kaepernick.

Without the mobility, RGIII was severely limited in what he could do.

I think both Wilson & Kaepernick would still be effective QB's even if their mobility was limited.

Griffin has a better arm than both of them, but Wilson is a savvier player and Kaep was a better runner this year (having two uninjured legs and all). And neither had to deal with a coach who was actively trying to get himself fired.

[TigerJ]

I'm afraid I don't get the connection with EJ. Yes, several of the rankings have comments about EJ Manuel, but they're all commenting on what everybody has already seen. It's not going to change anybody's mind, least of all the Bills, who already know EJ will start in 2015.

[Meathead]

wth is this ejs kidneys thing?!

[feldspar]

Not Good News For The Anti Ej Group

...But good news for Bills fans as a whole



It's good news for Bills fans that these guys have the Bills at #25 in their power rankings on average?

Or is the good news that the Bills will climb the power rankings IF Manuel stays healthy and plays well?

[Rob's House]

Not sure there was any "news" reported in the OP. Just the annoying rants of another obnoxious EJ fanboy.

I don't understand why some of you need for everyone to share your outlook. You love EJ and see him as a future HOFer. Good for you. I like EJ - he seems like a nice guy, he's got some good attributes, it wouldn't shock me to see him succeed - but as a fan I find it more fun to analyze players, positions, & schemes objectively rather than shake my pom poms at my QB idol like a 13 year old girl idealizing a crush. You apparently prefer the latter, and that's fine. But how about you and the rest of the fanboys do that without denigrating everyone else.

[WagonCircler]

Griffin has a better arm than both of them, but Wilson is a savvier player and Kaep was a better runner this year (having two uninjured legs and all). And neither had to deal with a coach who was actively trying to get himself fired.

It depends on your definition on a better arm. Griffin may have a more powerful arm, but Wilson is more accurate, and Kaep is somewhat inconsistent when it comes to accuracy.

I can't help but LMAO at the blind EJ loyalists who are terrified of seeing some competition come in. First of all, there is no "irrational hate" here. We saw an unbelievably inconsistent half season, with more bad than good, from a rookie QB who missed half the season with THREE SEPARATE KNEE INJURIES.

Irrational would equal not being concerned.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't understand why some of you need for everyone to share your outlook.

Comment of the year.

[WagonCircler]

Not sure there was any "news" reported in the OP. Just the annoying rants of another obnoxious EJ fanboy.

I don't understand why some of you need for everyone to share your outlook. You love EJ and see him as a future HOFer. Good for you. I like EJ - he seems like a nice guy, he's got some good attributes, it wouldn't shock me to see him succeed - but as a fan I find it more fun to analyze players, positions, & schemes objectively rather than shake my pom poms at my QB idol like a 13 year old girl idealizing a crush. You apparently prefer the latter, and that's fine. But how about you and the rest of the fanboys do that without denigrating everyone else.

Upon further review, I declare this Post of the Year.

[YardRat]

Not sure there was any "news" reported in the OP. Just the annoying rants of another obnoxious EJ fanboy.

I don't understand why some of you need for everyone to share your outlook. You love EJ and see him as a future HOFer. Good for you. I like EJ - he seems like a nice guy, he's got some good attributes, it wouldn't shock me to see him succeed - but as a fan I find it more fun to analyze players, positions, & schemes objectively rather than shake my pom poms at my QB idol like a 13 year old girl idealizing a crush. You apparently prefer the latter, and that's fine. But how about you and the rest of the fanboys do that without denigrating everyone else.

I'd like you to link to a single post by anybody that declares him a future HOFer. Just one.

Analyzing objectively is one thing, jumping to conclusions and disregarding important factors in that analysis is intellectually dishonest and biased. The persons you are referring to have, by a great majority, not annointed EJ 'the answer', they simply acknowledge that the answer isn't available yet and more information is needed to come to a proper conclusion. Quite unlike those that have already tossed Manuel aside and want to (in my opinion) take an unnecessary risk at this time by grabbing for yet another brass ring QB in the first round.

Ironic that you chose to end your post complaining about denigration, yet do so yourself in the same breath.

[YardRat]

It depends on your definition on a better arm. Griffin may have a more powerful arm, but Wilson is more accurate, and Kaep is somewhat inconsistent when it comes to accuracy.

I can't help but LMAO at the blind EJ loyalists who are terrified of seeing some competition come in. First of all, there is no "irrational hate" here. We saw an unbelievably inconsistent half season, with more bad than good, from a rookie QB who missed half the season with THREE SEPARATE KNEE INJURIES.

Irrational would equal not being concerned.

- - - Updated - - -



Comment of the year.

Again, by and large, the vast majority of the posters you are referring to have also stated the desire to either bring in another vet free agent or draft a QB in the mid-rounds. None of them are terrified of seeing some competition. Most also acknowledge that regardless of what side of the EJ fence one stands, or even those that sit right on it, the injuries are a concern that needs to be alleviated.

You would be hard-pressed to find very few, if any, posters that have already declared Manuel the future. There are those, however, that have already kicked him to the curb and want to move on. One side certainly is being irrational, but it certainly isn't the side that deems it judicious to give EJ a little more time and experience.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Excellent posting YardRat!

[Rob's House]

I'd like you to link to a single post by anybody that declares him a future HOFer. Just one.

Analyzing objectively is one thing, jumping to conclusions and disregarding important factors in that analysis is intellectually dishonest and biased. The persons you are referring to have, by a great majority, not annointed EJ 'the answer', they simply acknowledge that the answer isn't available yet and more information is needed to come to a proper conclusion. Quite unlike those that have already tossed Manuel aside and want to (in my opinion) take an unnecessary risk at this time by grabbing for yet another brass ring QB in the first round.

Ironic that you chose to end your post complaining about denigration, yet do so yourself in the same breath.

I never made a categorical statement against denigration generally. I spoke of a particular form of denigration I didn't think was warranted by a particular act, or in this case, by a particular stated belief. The distinction matters.

BTW, it's kind of hard to take the high road after opening with a declaration that amounts to little more than everyone who disagrees with you is a moron.

[Meathead]

IMO... He's got 2014. If he doesn't achieve the following stats, we draft again in 2015...

My clear definition of necessary progress... At least 14 healthy starts with projected 16 game stats of >60% completion >3,500 passing yards, >7 YPA, >20 passing TD's, <12 INT's, >80 passer rating, >9 wins.

sounds reasonable, tho i woulda said eight wins but close enuf

its not like that would even be a 'good' season, but just the minimum to show hes progressing. i sure hope and expect he would do better than that

[Yasgur's Farm]

I never made a categorical statement against denigration generally. I spoke of a particular form of denigration I didn't think was warranted by a particular act, or in this case, by a particular stated belief. The distinction matters.

BTW, it's kind of hard to take the high road after opening with a declaration that amounts to little more than everyone who disagrees with you is a moron.Well Rob.. If you're referring to me, I'd ask that you re-read my posts on this subject. I've made it clear that I believe that EJ's earned only 2014...And I've made it clear what my opinion is regarding what he must accomplish in 2014 in order to earn 2015. I can provide those posts in the form of quotes if that becomes necessary.

I'm sorry if my opinion seems threatening to you... Fact remains that my OP is indeed good news to "Bills fans as a whole".

[YardRat]

I never made a categorical statement against denigration generally. I spoke of a particular form of denigration I didn't think was warranted by a particular act, or in this case, by a particular stated belief. The distinction matters.

Apparently that distinction is it's OK for you to practice it, but others shouldn't. Same sentence, same context. One side shouldn't denigrate the anti-EJ sentiment, but it's OK for you to refer to the other side as 'fanboys' in a derogatory manner?


BTW, it's kind of hard to take the high road after opening with a declaration that amounts to little more than everyone who disagrees with you is a moron.

Please quote the comment...my initial post in this thread was relative to EJ's injuries, and my opening declaration in the second post was a challenge for you to support a hyperbolic assertion you made. Nothing at all to do with anybody who may disagree with me. You can post both of them in the same response if you wish.

[Yasgur's Farm]

BTW... My 13 year old POM POMS are magnificent!

[feldspar]

Well Rob.. If you're referring to me, I'd ask that you re-read my posts on this subject. I've made it clear that I believe that EJ's earned only 2014...And I've made it clear what my opinion is regarding what he must accomplish in 2014 in order to earn 2015. I can provide those posts in the form of quotes if that becomes necessary.

I'm sorry if my opinion seems threatening to you... Fact remains that my OP is indeed good news to "Bills fans as a whole".

EJ didn't even "earn" 2013...luck of the draw, really. Let's not get carried away like a guy is entitled to a job just because he was picked relatively high and his ONLY competition got put on IR before the season started.

Do you really think that the Bills couldn't go out and get a guy that had a real chance to beat Manuel out as starter this year? Not that you said that, but I'm sure they could.

Manuel didn't "earn" too much. All he's got is a leap of faith by the Bills management, if you want to keep it real.

Believe me, I'm not putting Manuel down in any way. I like the dude. He just has a lot to prove. The WHOLE thing to me is that we only have TWO undrafted guys behind him, one coming off the practice squad, and the other playing pretty poorly in real games as a rookie. That's not a whole lot of level of comfort at the position. EJ is hit-and-miss here, and the odds are not in his favor, despite any kind of hype anybody wants to dream up. What I saw was Thad Lewis playing just as well last year, all things considered.

All I want is another REAL potential starter to be brought in...That's it. All the eggs are in one relatively unstable basket right now. I just don't like the philosophy that says we are stuck with ONLY him for better or worse.

I also don't know why your OP was good news to Bills fans as a whole, either. You'll have to explain that one to me.

[Meathead]

maybe not even eight wins now that i think about it. god forbid but lets say the rest of the team doesnt make any progress and theres early talk of marrone getting fired. if ej has a decent minimal season as described then even as few as six wins could be justified with the rest of his stats. he would most likely have to win an open competition but hed still get a pretty strong chance. but thats just theoretical and would suck so lets never talk about that again

[Yasgur's Farm]

EJ didn't even "earn" 2013...luck of the draw, really. Let's not get carried away like a guy is entitled to a job just because he was picked relatively high and his ONLY competition got put on IR before the season started.

Do you really think that the Bills couldn't go out and get a guy that had a real chance to beat Manuel out as starter this year?

Manuel didn't "earn" too much. All he's got is a leap of faith by the Bills management, if you want to keep it real.

Believe me, I'm not putting Manuel down in any way. I like the dude. He just has a lot to prove. The WHOLE thing to me is that we only have TWO undrafted guys behind him, one coming off the practice squad, and the other playing pretty poorly in real games as a rookie. That's not a whole lot of level of comfort at the position. EJ is hit-and-miss here, and the odds are not in his favor, despite any kind of hype anybody wants to dream up. What I saw was Thad Lewis playing just as well last year, all things considered.

All I want is another REAL potential starter to be brought in...if not this year, then relatively soon. That's it. All the eggs are in one relatively unstable basket right now.

I also don't know why your OP was good news to Bills fans as a whole, either. You'll have to explain that one to me.My opinion differs from yours... But not as much as you make it out to be... Bring in competition. That's just dandy with me. Just don't spend a 1 thru 3 rounder on him when we have 3 positions (RT, LB, TE/WR) that are proven needs... So that leaves FA and rounds 4-7.

As for good news for Bills fans as a whole... Look at any poll from any board... The majority opinion is clear. Furthermore, it's a good thing in general if EJ's next step leads us further way from a 15 year need.

[Rob's House]

Well Rob.. If you're referring to me, I'd ask that you re-read my posts on this subject. I've made it clear that I believe that EJ's earned only 2014...And I've made it clear what my opinion is regarding what he must accomplish in 2014 in order to earn 2015. I can provide those posts in the form of quotes if that becomes necessary.

I'm sorry if my opinion seems threatening to you... Fact remains that my OP is indeed good news to "Bills fans as a whole".

I may have been harsher than was warranted. There seem to be a lot of people about the interwebs with a militant pro-EJ stance that have made most Bills message boards virtually unreadable of late & at first glance the title & sub title of the thread appeared to echo that sentiment, but I can see how that may not have been the intent. I don't disagree with your overall position on the topic.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I may have been harsher than was warranted. There seem to be a lot of people about the interwebs with a militant pro-EJ stance that have made most Bills message boards virtually unreadable of late & at first glance the title & sub title of the thread appeared to echo that sentiment, but I can see how that may not have been the intent. I don't disagree with your overall position on the topic.Thanks for your honest answer Rob... It's admirable. I feel the exact same way regarding the rash of EJ hate posts.

[Rob's House]

Apparently that distinction is it's OK for you to practice it, but others shouldn't. Same sentence, same context. One side shouldn't denigrate the anti-EJ sentiment, but it's OK for you to refer to the other side as 'fanboys' in a derogatory manner?



Please quote the comment...my initial post in this thread was relative to EJ's injuries, and my opening declaration in the second post was a challenge for you to support a hyperbolic assertion you made. Nothing at all to do with anybody who may disagree with me. You can post both of them in the same response if you wish.

Did you just out yourself as 1 guy w/ 2 screen names?

[swiper]

The statement that someone wants a TE/WR over a QB in the top three rounds exudes ignorance.

[Yasgur's Farm]

He's not me if that's what you're thinking... We've butted heads in the past.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The statement that someone wants a TE/WR over a QB in the top three rounds exudes ignorance.Jesus Christ... Another douchebag comment from you. Do you ever leave room for other people's right to an opinion? It's not like I'm in the minority on this.

[Goobylal]

EJ didn't even "earn" 2013...luck of the draw, really. Let's not get carried away like a guy is entitled to a job just because he was picked relatively high and his ONLY competition got put on IR before the season started.

Do you really think that the Bills couldn't go out and get a guy that had a real chance to beat Manuel out as starter this year? Not that you said that, but I'm sure they could.

Manuel didn't "earn" too much. All he's got is a leap of faith by the Bills management, if you want to keep it real.

Believe me, I'm not putting Manuel down in any way. I like the dude. He just has a lot to prove. The WHOLE thing to me is that we only have TWO undrafted guys behind him, one coming off the practice squad, and the other playing pretty poorly in real games as a rookie. That's not a whole lot of level of comfort at the position. EJ is hit-and-miss here, and the odds are not in his favor, despite any kind of hype anybody wants to dream up. What I saw was Thad Lewis playing just as well last year, all things considered.

All I want is another REAL potential starter to be brought in...That's it. All the eggs are in one relatively unstable basket right now. I just don't like the philosophy that says we are stuck with ONLY him for better or worse.

I also don't know why your OP was good news to Bills fans as a whole, either. You'll have to explain that one to me.
Sure he earned 2013 and it had nothing to do with Kolb being injured. EJ played as well, if not better than, Kolb, and the Bills needed to get the future going. The injuries to both were unforeseeable and unfortunate, as Kolb probably could have won many of the games that Tuel and Lewis couldn't.

BTW, Kolb is still on the roster at a cost of $3M this season, to provide competition, along with Lewis and (less likely) Tuel. I don't know who you fancy the Bills could get this off-season to challenge EJ as a starter, considering the FA crop is poor and they'll be drafting 9th and there are upwards of 5 teams looking for QB's who draft before them.

Who do you envision the Bills could get to beat out EJ as a starter? Even in the draft, where they pick 9th and upwards of 5 teams before them may take a QB?

[kishoph]

I may have been harsher than was warranted. There seem to be a lot of people about the interwebs with a militant pro-EJ stance that have made most Bills message boards virtually unreadable of late & at first glance the title & sub title of the thread appeared to echo that sentiment, but I can see how that may not have been the intent. I don't disagree with your overall position on the topic.


:headscrat Are you kidding, where are you seeing all these pro EJ threads ? Are they hidden within all the EJ is injury prone, Bills need to draft a QB, EJ's not the answer threads ? If anything is making the boards unreadable it's all the bashing threads for EJ and just about any other Bills player.

[feldspar]

Sure he earned 2013 and it had nothing to do with Kolb being injured. EJ played as well, if not better than, Kolb, and the Bills needed to get the future going. The injuries to both were unforeseeable and unfortunate, as Kolb probably could have won many of the games that Tuel and Lewis couldn't.

BTW, Kolb is still on the roster at a cost of $3M this season, to provide competition, along with Lewis and (less likely) Tuel. I don't know who you fancy the Bills could get this off-season to challenge EJ as a starter, considering the FA crop is poor and they'll be drafting 9th and there are upwards of 5 teams looking for QB's who draft before them.

Who do you envision the Bills could get to beat out EJ as a starter? Even in the draft, where they pick 9th and upwards of 5 teams before them may take a QB?,

I'm talking about a contingency plan, which could translate into a Russell Wilson or Nick Foles type-deal, basically. I'm talking about the future, not just the present. With the current depth at QB, if EJ doesn't pan out, we are left with our dicks in our hands. Nothing.



As for good news for Bills fans as a whole... Look at any poll from any board... The majority opinion is clear. Furthermore, it's a good thing in general if EJ's next step leads us further way from a 15 year need.

Makes no sense, buddy. Why don't you spell the good news out to me...

[Mike]

I don't understand all the EJ hate. So he struggled in his rookie season... big deal. He's not the first and he won't be the last. I hope he learned a few things and continues to get better. Get him a WR and some OL help and he should be ok.

It's not that he struggled but it's how he struggled, that's the problem. The way he plays the game, his skill set, his qualities, and his drawbacks, etc... At best he projects to be a 2nd-3rd tier QB in this league and those guys don't win SBs.

[better days]

It's not that he struggled but it's how he struggled, that's the problem. The way he plays the game, his skill set, his qualities, and his drawbacks, etc... At best he projects to be a 2nd-3rd tier QB in this league and those guys don't win SBs.

So you really think Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco are first tier QB's?

[Goobylal]

It's not that he struggled but it's how he struggled, that's the problem. The way he plays the game, his skill set, his qualities, and his drawbacks, etc... At best he projects to be a 2nd-3rd tier QB in this league and those guys don't win SBs.
Way too early to make that prediction.

[better days]

EJ didn't even "earn" 2013...luck of the draw, really. Let's not get carried away like a guy is entitled to a job just because he was picked relatively high and his ONLY competition got put on IR before the season started.

Do you really think that the Bills couldn't go out and get a guy that had a real chance to beat Manuel out as starter this year? Not that you said that, but I'm sure they could.

Manuel didn't "earn" too much. All he's got is a leap of faith by the Bills management, if you want to keep it real.

Believe me, I'm not putting Manuel down in any way. I like the dude. He just has a lot to prove. The WHOLE thing to me is that we only have TWO undrafted guys behind him, one coming off the practice squad, and the other playing pretty poorly in real games as a rookie. That's not a whole lot of level of comfort at the position. EJ is hit-and-miss here, and the odds are not in his favor, despite any kind of hype anybody wants to dream up. What I saw was Thad Lewis playing just as well last year, all things considered.

All I want is another REAL potential starter to be brought in...That's it. All the eggs are in one relatively unstable basket right now. I just don't like the philosophy that says we are stuck with ONLY him for better or worse.

I also don't know why your OP was good news to Bills fans as a whole, either. You'll have to explain that one to me.

It is easy to say you want a real potential starter brought in.

It is much harder in reality to do that.

I have not seen any names brought up as potential starters to replace EJ.

What REAL potential starter would you like to see the Bills bring in?

[feldspar]

It is easy to say you want a real potential starter brought in.

It is much harder in reality to do that.

I have not seen any names brought up as potential starters to replace EJ.

What REAL potential starter would you like to see the Bills bring in?

Of course it's very difficult to bring in a starting quarterback most every time no matter what. You could be picking first overall and be **** out of luck. You could have all the money in the world to spend and STILL be **** out of luck.

Sure-fire things don't generally hit the open market, nor are they available when you pick 9th. That's why you don't stop looking just because you have a single prospect in-house.

I'm not even talking about replacing Manuel. I'm talking about bringing bodies in with potential. I'm talking about not standing pat with Manuel to the point of not bringing other guys in. I'm saying that you have to keep at it and not wait 3 years until your guy actually fails and then you have to start completely over.

In other words, until you really KNOW you have your guy, then you don't really have your guy. I'm talking about exploration, even though you've committed to some prospect on paper, just like Seattle did. I'm talking about drafting somebody like Aaron Murray, AJ McCarron, or Zach Mettenberger if the opportunity is there...dunno all the possibilities as I didn't follow college football as closely as the pros. The point is that the Bills should be doing all their homework on guys like that and recognize the benefit of going after them as contingency plans.

Maybe you don't fully disagree with that.

[better days]

Of course it's very difficult to bring in a starting quarterback most every time no matter what. You could be picking first overall and be **** out of luck. You could have all the money in the world to spend and STILL be **** out of luck.

Sure-fire things don't generally hit the open market, nor are they available when you pick 9th. That's why you don't stop looking just because you have a single prospect in-house.

I'm not even talking about replacing Manuel. I'm talking about bringing bodies in with potential. I'm talking about not standing pat with Manuel to the point of not bringing other guys in. I'm saying that you have to keep at it and not wait 3 years until your guy actually fails and then you have to start completely over.

In other words, until you really KNOW you have your guy, then you don't really have your guy. I'm talking about exploration, even though you've committed to some prospect on paper, just like Seattle did. I'm talking about drafting somebody like Aaron Murray, AJ McCarron, or Zach Mettenberger if the opportunity is there...dunno all the possibilities as I didn't follow college football as closely as the pros. The point is that the Bills should be doing all their homework on guys like that and recognize the benefit of going after them as contingency plans.

Maybe you don't fully disagree with that.

I don't disagree at all. And I doubt many people would disagree with you.

All I am saying is don't waste a HIGH draft pick on a mediocre QB.

If a QB with as much potential as EJ is available to the Bills I am all for drafting him.

[BuffaloRedleg]

So you really think Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco are first tier QB's?

Joe Flacco played like a first tier QB. He had like 16 TDs and 0 Ints during the playoffs last year.

The other 2 had legendary defenses.

Are you trying to suggest that having an elite QB is not essential to winning a Superbowl? If you don't have a legendary defense (not even just "really good") then you absolutely do.

Elite QB play has been the most important factor in team success for decades now. A few outliers like the Bucs and Ravens don't change that.

[Goobylal]

Of course it's very difficult to bring in a starting quarterback most every time no matter what. You could be picking first overall and be **** out of luck. You could have all the money in the world to spend and STILL be **** out of luck.

Sure-fire things don't generally hit the open market, nor are they available when you pick 9th. That's why you don't stop looking just because you have a single prospect in-house.

I'm not even talking about replacing Manuel. I'm talking about bringing bodies in with potential. I'm talking about not standing pat with Manuel to the point of not bringing other guys in. I'm saying that you have to keep at it and not wait 3 years until your guy actually fails and then you have to start completely over.

In other words, until you really KNOW you have your guy, then you don't really have your guy. I'm talking about exploration, even though you've committed to some prospect on paper, just like Seattle did. I'm talking about drafting somebody like Aaron Murray, AJ McCarron, or Zach Mettenberger if the opportunity is there...dunno all the possibilities as I didn't follow college football as closely as the pros. The point is that the Bills should be doing all their homework on guys like that and recognize the benefit of going after them as contingency plans.

Maybe you don't fully disagree with that.
How do you know you have your guy without not only giving him everything he needs to succeed, but a chance to prove himself? Can anyone argue otherwise that having a rookie OC, no dedicated QB coach, a mostly inexperienced and injured group of receivers, instability on the OL, splitting time with Kolb, and his injuries didn't adversely affect EJ? And can anyone say that 10 games is enough to evaluate someone, much less a QB?

As for going with a rookie (since the FA market will be a bust), again at best the Bills will be choosing from the 5th or 6th best QB down, since 4-5 teams figure to take a QB before them. After that point, you're just hoping to get lucky, like Seattle did (if they knew he was going to be that good, they never would have waited that long to take him). And Murray and Mettenberger are coming off ACL's and won't be ready to compete this year, and are average anyway, while McCarron is a product of the system and will be a bust.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Makes no sense, buddy. Why don't you spell the good news out to me...
Oh please... Stop pretending to be thick so you don't have to acknowledge my point... None of your classmates have expressed a problem understanding this concept.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Joe Flacco played like a first tier QB. He had like 16 TDs and 0 Ints during the playoffs last year.

The other 2 had legendary defenses.

Are you trying to suggest that having an elite QB is not essential to winning a Superbowl? If you don't have a legendary defense (not even just "really good") then you absolutely do.

Elite QB play has been the most important factor in team success for decades now. A few outliers like the Bucs and Ravens don't change that.Perhaps Whaley will cash in a gift card at "Elite QB's-R-Us".

[Yasgur's Farm]

How do you know you have your guy without not only giving him everything he needs to succeed, but a chance to prove himself? Can anyone argue otherwise that having a rookie OC, no dedicated QB coach, a mostly inexperienced and injured group of receivers, instability on the OL, splitting time with Kolb, and his injuries didn't adversely affect EJ? And can anyone say that 10 games is enough to evaluate someone, much less a QB?

As for going with a rookie (since the FA market will be a bust), again at best the Bills will be choosing from the 5th or 6th best QB down, since 4-5 teams figure to take a QB before them. After that point, you're just hoping to get lucky, like Seattle did (if they knew he was going to be that good, they never would have waited that long to take him). And Murray and Mettenberger are coming off ACL's and won't be ready to compete this year, and are average anyway, while McCarron is a product of the system and will be a bust.Yup... Absolute logic here... No FA magic available... Comes down to taking a chance in the later rounds to see if we get "lucky". Everything points to continuing to look at what we have before we decide to pick again in 2015... We can pick up a vet FA to compete if you like. But that just means we'll need to get rid of Tuel (which is probably not a huge loss).

[feldspar]

How do you know you have your guy without not only giving him everything he needs to succeed, but a chance to prove himself? Can anyone argue otherwise that having a rookie OC, no dedicated QB coach, a mostly inexperienced and injured group of receivers, instability on the OL, splitting time with Kolb, and his injuries didn't adversely affect EJ? And can anyone say that 10 games is enough to evaluate someone, much less a QB?

Can anyone say that you reflect an understanding of what I just said?


As for going with a rookie (since the FA market will be a bust), again at best the Bills will be choosing from the 5th or 6th best QB down, since 4-5 teams figure to take a QB before them. After that point, you're just hoping to get lucky, like Seattle did (if they knew he was going to be that good, they never would have waited that long to take him). And Murray and Mettenberger are coming off ACL's and won't be ready to compete this year, and are average anyway, while McCarron is a product of the system and will be a bust.

It's already been established that EJ is going to start next year. Lot's of things happen in a season.

I'm glad you got all these prospects figured out and know what they are going to do before they do it. Maybe you can write their biographies today. Professional scouts and evaluators may beg to differ. Many people figure Manuel's absolute ceiling is that of an average QB, yet we are giving HIM a chance...probably the majority of people think that. There is no telling how potential will translate in the pros.

And you gotta get lucky ANYWAY. Like you say, Russell Wilson was the 6th quarterback off the board. Nick Foles was the 7th QB off the board that same year (2012). Then came Kirk Cousins. Kaepernick was the 6th QB picked in 2011.

Nobody is talking about giving up on Manuel at this point. Do you think he should feel threatened if we bring in another guy with some decent potential? Because that's all I'm talking about. It's the smart thing to do.

[better days]

Joe Flacco played like a first tier QB. He had like 16 TDs and 0 Ints during the playoffs last year.

The other 2 had legendary defenses.

Are you trying to suggest that having an elite QB is not essential to winning a Superbowl? If you don't have a legendary defense (not even just "really good") then you absolutely do.

Elite QB play has been the most important factor in team success for decades now. A few outliers like the Bucs and Ravens don't change that.

Well, Flacco did not play like a first tier QB last year. He was MEDIOCRE in 2013.

Flacco may well have had his career year in 2012 & the rest of his career may be more like 2013 than 2012, time will tell.

Yes, I am saying a team can win a Super Bowl without an Elite QB, Eli Manning won 2 of them while his elite Brother has only won one.

[Rob's House]

How do you know you have your guy without not only giving him everything he needs to succeed, but a chance to prove himself? Can anyone argue otherwise that having a rookie OC, no dedicated QB coach, a mostly inexperienced and injured group of receivers, instability on the OL, splitting time with Kolb, and his injuries didn't adversely affect EJ? And can anyone say that 10 games is enough to evaluate someone, much less a QB?

As for going with a rookie (since the FA market will be a bust), again at best the Bills will be choosing from the 5th or 6th best QB down, since 4-5 teams figure to take a QB before them. After that point, you're just hoping to get lucky, like Seattle did (if they knew he was going to be that good, they never would have waited that long to take him). And Murray and Mettenberger are coming off ACL's and won't be ready to compete this year, and are average anyway, while McCarron is a product of the system and will be a bust.
So if I understand you correctly, it's impossible to know whether your QB is a star or bust based on 10 NFL starts, but you've got Mettenberger & Murray figured out before they're even drafted? Can you walk me through that one?

[Goobylal]

Yup... Absolute logic here... No FA magic available... Comes down to taking a chance in the later rounds to see if we get "lucky". Everything points to continuing to look at what we have before we decide to pick again in 2015... We can pick up a vet FA to compete if you like. But that just means we'll need to get rid of Tuel (which is probably not a huge loss).
Kolb is still on the roster. Speaking of which, if he hadn't gotten injured, he probably would have won at least 3 of the games Tuel and Lewis blew, which might have meant playoffs. Sigh. Oh well.

Can anyone say that you reflect an understanding of what I just said

It's already been established that EJ is going to start next year. Lot's of things happen in a season.

I'm glad you got all these prospects figured out and know what they are going to do before they do it. Maybe you can write their biographies today. Professional scouts and evaluators may beg to differ. Many people figure Manuel's absolute ceiling is that of an average QB, yet we are giving HIM a chance...probably the majority of people think that. There is no telling how potential will translate in the pros.

And you gotta get lucky ANYWAY. Like you say, Russell Wilson was the 6th quarterback off the board. Nick Foles was the 7th QB off the board that same year (2012). Then came Kirk Cousins. Kaepernick was the 6th QB picked in 2011.

Nobody is talking about giving up on Manuel at this point. Do you think he should feel threatened if we bring in another guy with some decent potential? Because that's all I'm talking about. It's the smart thing to do.
No I don't think he'd feel threatened, because the Bills are at-best looking at the 5th best QB if they take a QB in the 1st, and a much lower-rated one if they wait another few rounds. Meanwhile they have Kolb, Lewis, and Tuel, none of whom are rookies. At best I'd consider taking a day 3 flyer on a guy on a lark, but I wouldn't expect much competition since he'd be 5th on the depth chart.

So if I understand you correctly, it's impossible to know whether your QB is a star or bust based on 10 NFL starts, but you've got Mettenberger & Murray figured out before they're even drafted? Can you walk me through that one?
Well for starters, both are coming off ACL injuries, meaning their 2014 seasons are essentially over before they began. And without seeing them play in a real NFL game, each team that takes them won't exactly feel comfortable going into 2015 with either as the starter, meaning having to draft a QB high. And then it's a matter of them waiting for an injury to become the starter.

[Skooby]

The tone in this whole thread is a challenge anyone who isn't onboard with simply gifting EJ a starting position. Why can't we have an additional QB on the roster that might compliment EJ or even leave us better off just in case EJ gets hurt again ? Is it completely out of bounds that EJ might have another injury ? Anyone can get injured at anytime, so knowing that going into it leads us to the depth factor.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Well, Flacco did not play like a first tier QB last year. He was MEDIOCRE in 2013.

Flacco may well have had his career year in 2012 & the rest of his career may be more like 2013 than 2012, time will tell.

Yes, I am saying a team can win a Super Bowl without an Elite QB, Eli Manning won 2 of them while his elite Brother has only won one.

Well yes of course. Whether or not he is "elite" is irrelevant, he certainly played "elite" in the playoffs 2 years ago. That's why they won.

Eli played elite in those games. Manning has a problem playing elite in the playoffs.

Whether or not someone is elite is completely missing the point. It's playing at an elite level that matters, and you almost assuredly will not win a Superbowl without that ingredient.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Perhaps Whaley will cash in a gift card at "Elite QB's-R-Us".

It's called the NFL draft and responsibly managed football clubs manage to somehow not go 25 years without drafting a legit franchise QB.

[swiper]

The tone in this whole thread is irgnorant.

Fixed.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The tone in this whole thread is a challenge anyone who isn't onboard with simply gifting EJ a starting position. Why can't we have an additional QB on the roster that might compliment EJ or even leave us better off just in case EJ gets hurt again ? Is it completely out of bounds that EJ might have another injury ? Anyone can get injured at anytime, so knowing that going into it leads us to the depth factor."The tone in this whole thread" s clearly stated in the title... "Anti EJ Group".

If you're not in that group, and you feel "challenged", maybe your a little defensive... Or maybe you just hiding behind the "in case EJ gets hurt again" statement.

[Yasgur's Farm]

It's called the NFL draft and responsibly managed football clubs manage to somehow not go 25 years without drafting a legit franchise QB.You know full well you're taking that completely out of context... It was in response to someone thinking we could simply **** an elite QB at will... r make ne in Madden.

- - - Updated - - -


Fixed.I feel sad for you.

[Skooby]

"The tone in this whole thread" s clearly stated in the title... "Anti EJ Group".

If you're not in that group, and you feel "challenged", maybe your a little defensive... Or maybe you just hiding behind the "in case EJ gets hurt again" statement.

I'm not against the Bills in any way, I'd just prefer some actual competition & depth at our QB position. If that's hiding, then I'm a full-blown trap-door spider.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'm not against the Bills in any way, I'd just prefer some actual competition & depth at our QB position. If that's hiding, then I'm a full-blown trap-door spider.Who made the "Would EJ start for any other team" poll thread? Should I lay out a few choice quotes?


It's crazy to think that we want to start the QB no one else would start.

EJ isn't a better option for any team based on it but he's good enough for ours, LOL. Anyone else want to buy seasons to watch a train wreck ?
I think the shoe fits Skooby... And to think... We used to be friends... I'm hurt.

[better days]

Well yes of course. Whether or not he is "elite" is irrelevant, he certainly played "elite" in the playoffs 2 years ago. That's why they won.

Eli played elite in those games. Manning has a problem playing elite in the playoffs.

Whether or not someone is elite is completely missing the point. It's playing at an elite level that matters, and you almost assuredly will not win a Superbowl without that ingredient.

Well, my point is a team does not need an "elite" QB to win a Super Bowl.

If a QB & team get hot at the right time, that team can win.

Hell, surrounded by a GOOD team, Mark Sanchez took the Jets to the AFC Championship game his Rookie year.

[Skooby]

Who made the "Would EJ start for any other team" poll thread? Should I lay out a few choice quotes?



I think the shoe fits Skooby... And to think... We used to be friends... I'm hurt.

I have no problems with you at all, it's all good. I don't need people to agree with me as well, so taking a different position is a choice. IMO- EJ will not stay healthy a full-season & had 3 different injuries last year that inhibited him from playing. Thinking that he will magically stay healed or never get hurt again is so against the grain, it's crazy.

We better be ready for the just in case because I think that it will be the case, history being our guide.

[kishoph]

The tone in this whole thread is a challenge anyone who isn't onboard with simply gifting EJ a starting position. Why can't we have an additional QB on the roster that might compliment EJ or even leave us better off just in case EJ gets hurt again ? Is it completely out of bounds that EJ might have another injury ? Anyone can get injured at anytime, so knowing that going into it leads us to the depth factor.

At what cost though ? This team has positions that we know need to be filled or upgraded, some of them positions that are key to helping any QB. I have no problem with taking a QB in later rounds (5 or later), but spending a high round pick on a QB, when the coaching staff has one they believe in, would be a waste IMO.

[Skooby]

At what cost though ? This team has positions that we know need to be filled or upgraded, some of them positions that are key to helping any QB. I have no problem with taking a QB in later rounds (5 or later), but spending a high round pick on a QB, when the coaching staff has one they believe in, would be a waste IMO.

QB is the most important position & right now we do not have a starting caliber QB that can stay healthy.

[better days]

I have no problems with you at all, it's all good. I don't need people to agree with me as well, so taking a different position is a choice. IMO- EJ will not stay healthy a full-season & had 3 different injuries last year that inhibited him from playing. Thinking that he will magically stay healed or never get hurt again is so against the grain, it's crazy.

We better be ready for the just in case because I think that it will be the case, history being our guide.

Matt Stafford was injured his first two years.

I think a concussion is the only injury that seems to reoccur.

[Skooby]

Matt Stafford was injured his first two years.

I think a concussion is the only injury that seems to reoccur.

Did he have both knees get injured & miss games on 3 different occasions (Pre-season / early / late season) ?

[better days]

Did he have both knees get injured & miss games on 3 different occasions (Pre-season / early / late season) ?

Stafford injured his knee twice his rookie year & was put on IR at the end of the year.

His 2nd year, he injured his shoulder & missed most of the season.

[Skooby]

Stafford injured his knee twice his rookie year & was put on IR at the end of the year.

His 2nd year, he injured his shoulder & missed most of the season.

Ok, what's his starting record ? He was also the #1 pick in the draft & the Lions committed everything to him as well, not like EJ where we traded back & got another early pick.

[kishoph]

QB is the most important position & right now we do not have a starting caliber QB that can stay healthy.

Well the coaching staff and GM seems to believe that we do have one and I'm pretty sure they're aware that their jobs may depend on that decision. Are they willing to jeopardize their futures because they think Manuel is a nice kid, or do they really believe that he will turn into a NFL QB can can win games for them ? I'd guess the latter. These people work with and see Manuel work every day and they have some of the best Doctors money can buy. I'm sure they know a lot more than you or I do from watching a couple handfuls of games on Sunday.

[better days]

Ok, what's his starting record ?

What does his starting record have to do with injuries?

[Skooby]

What does his starting record have to do with injuries?

How he's performed after those types of injuries is important, again he was the #1 pick ( unlike EJ) so the teams commitment level is very high. How did it go for the Lions' coaches ?

[kishoph]

Ok, what's his starting record ? He was also the #1 pick in the draft & the Lions committed everything to him as well, not like EJ where we traded back & got another early pick.


Does that give him better healing powers ?

[Skooby]

Does that give him better healing powers ?

It committed the Lions into seeing things through more. The Bills got an extra pick after trading back & taking EJ, so you want to compare you taking a guy #1 with EJ ? How's the Lions' coaches doing now ?

It's hard to compare a mid-first round pick with the #1 overall pick as per a team's commitment, Stafford also has Mega-Tron & we have Stevie. All different variables as to what's been committed to the offense, way different.

[better days]

It committed the Lions into seeing things through more. The Bills got an extra pick after trading back & taking EJ, so you want to compare you taking a guy #1 with EJ ? How's the Lions' coaches doing now ?

I was talking about injuries, nothing more or less than that.

Injuries happen, but a concussion is the only recurring injury.

[Yasgur's Farm]

For the record... Compare EJ's rookie season to the former #1 overall pick Matthew Stafford...
<tbody>
Year

Team

G

Att

Comp

Pct

Att/G

Yds

Avg

Yds/G

TD

TD%

Int

Int%

Lng

20+

40+

Sck

SckY

Rate


</tbody>

<tbody>
2009

Detroit Lions (http://www.billszone.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET)

10

377

201

53.3

37.7

2,267

6.0

226.7

13

3.4

20

5.3

75T

26

6

24

169

61.0


</tbody>



<tbody>

2013
Buffalo Bills (http://www.billszone.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF)
10
306
180
58.8
30.6
1,972
6.4
197.2
11
3.6
9
2.9
45
28
4
28
159
77.7


</tbody>


<tbody>








































</tbody>

[feldspar]

For the record... Compare EJ's rookie season to the former #1 overall pick Matthew Stafford...
<tbody>
Year

Team

G

Att

Comp

Pct

Att/G

Yds

Avg

Yds/G

TD

TD%

Int

Int%

Lng

20+

40+

Sck

SckY

Rate


</tbody>

<tbody>
2009

Detroit Lions (http://www.billszone.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET)

10

377

201

53.3

37.7

2,267

6.0

226.7

13

3.4

20

5.3

75T

26

6

24

169

61.0


</tbody>



<tbody id="yui_3_10_3_2_1392141515926_410">

2013
Buffalo Bills

10
180
306
58.8
1,972
6.4
11
9
28
159
77.7
53
186
3.5
2
6
3


</tbody>


The Lions won ZERO games the year before Matthew Stafford was drafted. They didn't win a single game. It was the worst season any team had in the entire history of the NFL...most losses ever. No other team has ever lost 16 games in a season. That's why they were picking first and able to get Stafford.

The Lions had the #30 ranked offense and the #32 ranked defense (dead last) the year before Stafford was drafted. The worst running game.

Just sayin'.

Keep fishing. EJ Manuel has his own story to play out.

[Skooby]

For the record... Compare EJ's rookie season to the former #1 overall pick Matthew Stafford...
<tbody>
Year
Team
G
Att
Comp
Pct
Att/G
Yds
Avg
Yds/G
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
20+
40+
Sck
SckY
Rate

</tbody>

<tbody>
2009
Detroit Lions (http://www.billszone.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET)
10
377
201
53.3
37.7
2,267
6.0
226.7
13
3.4
20
5.3
75T
26
6
24
169
61.0

</tbody>


<tbody>
2013
Buffalo Bills (http://www.billszone.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF)
10
306
180
58.8
30.6
1,972
6.4
197.2
11
3.6
9
2.9
45
28
4
28
159
77.7

</tbody>

<tbody>





















</tbody>


Eerily similar but like I said, Detroit committed everything in drafting Stafford #1. We committed more to Maybin than EJ & got value back on the tradeback, so investing more into the QB position is not out of the question & I feel necessary.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The Lions won ZERO games the year before Matthew Stafford was drafted. They didn't win a single game. It was the worst season any team had in the entire history of the NFL...most losses ever. No other team has ever lost 16 games in a season. That's why they were picking first and able to get Stafford.

The Lions had the #30 ranked offense and the #32 ranked defense (dead last) the year before Stafford was drafted. The worst running game.

Just sayin'.

Keep fishing. EJ Manuel has his own story to play out.It's funny how every fact presented gets dismissed for one reason or another.

[feldspar]

It's funny how every fact presented gets dismissed for one reason or another.

Because you're reaching.

What Stafford did or didn't do has absolutely nothing to do with EJ Manuel here. I can find some bad quarterbacks that had similar rookies years too, if you like...but that wouldn't mean anything either. You're trying to project what will happen with EJ Manuel? Good luck. You'll just have to wait and see like the rest of us. The only thing we really know is what we've seen Manuel do so far, and all we've seen is a guy that has a lot to prove.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How he's performed after those types of injuries is important, again he was the #1 pick ( unlike EJ) so the teams commitment level is very high. How did it go for the Lions' coaches ?

What's far more important than his draft position was his contract. As a pre-cap #1, Stafford got $40 million in guaranteed money before playing a snap. EJ got less than 9. There is a minimal penalty to moving on from EJ, but a massive one had the Lions dumped Stafford.

[Skooby]

What's far more important than his draft position was his contract. As a pre-cap #1, Stafford got $40 million in guaranteed money before playing a snap. EJ got less than 9. There is a minimal penalty to moving on from EJ, but a massive one had the Lions dumped Stafford.

Agreed, like a said without getting too detailed that the Lions are all in on him.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Because you're reaching.

What Stafford did or didn't do has absolutely nothing to do with EJ Manuel here. I can find some bad quarterbacks that had similar rookies years too, if you like...but that wouldn't mean anything either. You're trying to project what will happen with EJ Manuel? Good luck. You'll just have to wait and see like the rest of us. The only thing we really know is what we've seen Manuel do so far, and all we've seen is a guy that has a lot to prove.What comes first... Chicken or egg. These facts are being presented in reponse to those who insist that EJ's already failed. So naturally, similarities to others who have succeeded from like position will be cited... It's only natural. But as can be predicted in any internet debate, arguments become twisted, taken out of context and in general become a can of worms.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy with where EJ stacks up against other rookie starters througout modern NFL history. I've given my reasons.

[feldspar]

What's far more important than his draft position was his contract. As a pre-cap #1, Stafford got $40 million in guaranteed money before playing a snap. EJ got less than 9. There is a minimal penalty to moving on from EJ, but a massive one had the Lions dumped Stafford.

Right, and the rookie wage scale has really impacted how much theoretical commitment teams pretty much need to have with certain players. Stafford was drafted BEFORE the wage scale, and Manuel was drafted mid-first round AFTER it. Manuel was only part of the THIRD draft to have this wage scale in place. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out later on down the line for everybody.

And I'm not saying to give up on Manuel now, either. This is his big window of opportunity right now, and I'll be rooting my ass off for him to succeed.

I just think that the Bills should hedge their bet somehow.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Agreed, like a said without getting too detailed that the Lions are all in on him.Not sure about the specific Lion details... But I do know the Bills details...
1) Rookie head coach
2) Rookie OC
3) 3 rookie WR's
4) 1 vet WR having a tough year regarding injury and personal issues
5) 1 RB battling a high ankle sprain for almost the entire season
6) 1 other RB battling some dings of his own
7) A suspect OL

[feldspar]

What comes first... Chicken or egg. These facts are being presented in reponse to those who insist that EJ's already failed. So naturally, similarities to others who have succeeded from like position will be cited... It's only natural. But as can be predicted in any internet debate, arguments become twisted, taken out of context and in general become a can of worms.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy with where EJ stacks up against other rookie starters througout modern NFL history. I've given my reasons.

I see your point, and recognized it before.

I didn't read the whole thread either. But the whole debate is tired with me, really. I've been through it too many other times with other quarterbacks. You could find just as many reasons why EJ will fail as you can find reasons why he may succeed. That all depends on the conclusion you hope to prove. But none of it means too much or goes to prove a damn thing. No offense, but I just think that's true, or at least the way I feel about it.

I'm bound to contradict myself and talk about it some more, but we'll still just have to wait and see. Personally, I'm hopeful but not confident that EJ will pan out. This is going to be a big year for him in his career. Give him some more help at WR, offensive line, and a QB coach hopefully...already have the coach.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I see your point, and recognized it before.

I didn't read the whole thread either. But the whole debate is tired with me, really. I've been through it too many other times with other quarterbacks. You could find just as many reasons why EJ will fail as you can find reasons why he may succeed. That all depends on the conclusion you hope to prove. But none of it means too much or goes to prove a damn thing. No offense, but I just think that's true, or at least the way I feel about it.

I'm bound to contradict myself and talk about it some more, but we'll still just have to wait and see. Personally, I'm hopeful but not confident that EJ will pan out. This is going to be a big year for him in his career. Give him some more help at WR, offensive line, and a QB coach hopefully...already have the coach.I'm roughly in the same mindset as you...
1) I believe he showed enough in 2013 that we continue with him in 2014
2) I do not want to draft another QB before round for due to other holes that need to be addressed
3) If he does not show enough improvement in 2014 (in other posts I detailed specific minimum achiebvements), we draft again in 2015

[alohabillsfan]

It's not any EJ, it's anti average QB play!

[Goobylal]

The Lions won ZERO games the year before Matthew Stafford was drafted. They didn't win a single game. It was the worst season any team had in the entire history of the NFL...most losses ever. No other team has ever lost 16 games in a season. That's why they were picking first and able to get Stafford.

The Lions had the #30 ranked offense and the #32 ranked defense (dead last) the year before Stafford was drafted. The worst running game.

Just sayin'.

Keep fishing. EJ Manuel has his own story to play out.
The Lions had a worse running game, but Stafford had a far better receiving crew.

[The Jokeman]

The Lions averaged what the Bills did in the running game, and Stafford had a far better receiving crew.

That's debatable as yes Calvin Johnson is better than anything the Bills have and a healthy Nate Burleson is better than any WR we have outside of Stevie Johnson but the rest of the guys the Bills and Lions have might be equally bad. I'm not sure what to make of Pettigrew as think he a better blocker than Chandler but not sure he significantly better at receiving. That said I'd welcome adding him here. Also I'll always say that no matter who you are I think any receiver will look better playing with a veteran QB then a rookie in his first year.

[Goobylal]

Stafford definitely had a better receiving corps. He also was throwing inside of don't.

[Goobylal]

Let's try that again. He was also throwing inside of a dome.

[BuffaloRedleg]

You know full well you're taking that completely out of context... It was in response to someone thinking we could simply **** an elite QB at will... r make ne in Madden.


16775

Sorry that's all I could think of.

Nobody is saying that it's easy.

I'm just saying that it is necessary.

[feldspar]

Let's try that again. He was also throwing inside of a dome.

It might be something to consider that Stafford played in a dome more than Manuel in their rookie years...if it weren't for the fact that Stafford joined the worst team in the history of the NFL, before or since. That trumps all else in a big way.

I don't remember Manuel playing an real cold weather games, do you? The guy played a game in New York in mid-November...after that, he had the bye-week, played in Toronto's dome, then played two games in Florida. They he got hurt again and missed the last two games. The interesting part will be to see how Manuel actually handles some terrible weather in Buffalo. We haven't seen it.

As long as we are talking about Stafford for some reason, another interesting thing is that the only Head Coach he's ever had in the NFL is our boy Jim Schwartz. Not anymore.

[Goobylal]

It might be something to consider that Stafford played in a dome more than Manuel in their rookie years...if it weren't for the fact that Stafford joined the worst team in the history of the NFL, before or since. That trumps all else in a big way.

I don't remember Manuel playing an real cold weather games, do you? The guy played a game in New York in mid-November...after that, he had the bye-week, played in Toronto's dome, then played two games in Florida. They he got hurt again and missed the last two games. The interesting part will be to see how Manuel actually handles some terrible weather in Buffalo. We haven't seen it.

As long as we are talking about Stafford for some reason, another interesting thing is that the only Head Coach he's ever had in the NFL is our boy Jim Schwartz. Not anymore.
It's not just cold weather games, it's also the wind in the stadium. And Stafford might have joined the worst team in the history of the NFL but it wasn't totally devoid of talent, namely on offense.

[feldspar]

It's not just cold weather games, it's also the wind in the stadium. And Stafford might have joined the worst team in the history of the NFL but it wasn't totally devoid of talent, namely on offense.

whatever helps you sleep at night, dude.

Stafford has as much to do with Manuel as I do with the Pope.

[BuffaloRedleg]

whatever helps you sleep at night, dude.

Stafford has as much to do with Manuel as I do with the Pope.

Except that you and the pope are both white.

[runs away]

[Goobylal]

whatever helps you sleep at night, dude.

Stafford has as much to do with Manuel as I do with the Pope.
It was meant to be a comparison of rookie seasons. Give EJ some better weapons.

[feldspar]

It was meant to be a comparison of rookie seasons. Give EJ some better weapons.

Defense and running game help out a quarterback just as much as top-notch guys to throw to...puts him in better and more manageable situations. The Lions STILL had the worst defense in the NFL in Stafford's rookie year, and that puts him under more pressure...worst defense in yards, points allowed, and against the pass...bad against the run.

It's not like EJ had nobody to throw to, either. We got Stevie Johnson and Robert Woods, both who are pretty good. Thad Lewis won without EITHER of these guys too. In fact, Thad Lewis looked just as good (if not better) than EJ Manuel last year. And Lewis wasn't even on the team until the very end of August, and he was put on the practice squad. He didn't come off the practice squad until the week he started, where he brought the Bills into overtime against a playoff team on the road. This is an undrafted guy that bounced around practice squads mostly.

If you want to compare EJ to somebody, compare him to Thad Lewis.

I agree that we need some more weapons. Another WR and a TE. Scott Chandler is OK, but it'll be interesting to see if the Bills re-sign him. I have high hopes for Woods, who EJ seems to have chemistry with.

[better days]

Defense and running game help out a quarterback just as much as top-notch guys to throw to...puts him in better and more manageable situations. The Lions STILL had the worst defense in the NFL in Stafford's rookie year, and that puts him under more pressure...worst defense in yards, points allowed, and against the pass...bad against the run.

It's not like EJ had nobody to throw to, either. We got Stevie Johnson and Robert Woods, both who are pretty good. Thad Lewis won without EITHER of these guys too. In fact, Thad Lewis looked just as good (if not better) than EJ Manuel last year. And Lewis wasn't even on the team until the very end of August, and he was put on the practice squad. He didn't come off the practice squad until the week he started, where he brought the Bills into overtime against a playoff team on the road. This is an undrafted guy that bounced around practice squads mostly.

If you want to compare EJ to somebody, compare him to Thad Lewis.

I agree that we need some more weapons. Another WR and a TE. Scott Chandler is OK, but it'll be interesting to see if the Bills re-sign him. I have high hopes for Woods, who EJ seems to have chemistry with.

The practice squad is a part of the team. Practice squad players practice with the rest of the team, they just can't play in games while on the practice squad.

[WagonCircler]

Except that you and the pope are both white.

[runs away]

Actually, the Pope is Latino, or, as the propagandist media would put it "White Hispanic."

[stuckincincy]

Actually, the Pope is Latino, or, as the propagandist media would put it "White Hispanic."

Isn't "Latiino" one of those cooked-up things like "African-American."? Talk about propaganda...

[WagonCircler]

Isn't "Latiino" one of those cooked-up things like "African-American."? Talk about propaganda...

Yes. In reference to the continent known as "Latin." It's exactly the same thing, Corky.

[feldspar]

The practice squad is a part of the team. Practice squad players practice with the rest of the team, they just can't play in games while on the practice squad.

How many first-team reps do you figure Thad Lewis got before he started?

[better days]

How many first-team reps do you figure Thad Lewis got before he started?

The same number Tuel got before he started.

[feldspar]

The same number Tuel got before he started.

Not really.

[better days]

Not really.

OK, you tell us how much did either get?

[feldspar]

Actually, the Pope is Latino, or, as the propagandist media would put it "White Hispanic."

I rest my case.

[feldspar]

OK, you tell us how much did either get?

The starter gets the bulk of the first-team reps.

They prepare the only backup quarterback (Tuel, or whoever) to play in the game every week, and he gets some.

The guy on the practice squad has no chance of playing in the game every week. Until he is activated, he's an afterthought...Lewis was another arm, certainly not terribly involved in the game-plan. At the quarterback position, that's a big deal if you are suddenly going to actually start.

Saying that Tuel and Lewis got equal consideration in practice before week 7...well, it's not remotely true. Lewis only got more consideration in week 7 when he became the starter. He wasn't even the backup before that.

The lower you are on the totem-pole, the more you practice with other guys lower on the totem-pole. I would think that's common sense.

[Goobylal]

Defense and running game help out a quarterback just as much as top-notch guys to throw to...puts him in better and more manageable situations. The Lions STILL had the worst defense in the NFL in Stafford's rookie year, and that puts him under more pressure...worst defense in yards, points allowed, and against the pass...bad against the run.

It's not like EJ had nobody to throw to, either. We got Stevie Johnson and Robert Woods, both who are pretty good. Thad Lewis won without EITHER of these guys too. In fact, Thad Lewis looked just as good (if not better) than EJ Manuel last year. And Lewis wasn't even on the team until the very end of August, and he was put on the practice squad. He didn't come off the practice squad until the week he started, where he brought the Bills into overtime against a playoff team on the road. This is an undrafted guy that bounced around practice squads mostly.

If you want to compare EJ to somebody, compare him to Thad Lewis.

I agree that we need some more weapons. Another WR and a TE. Scott Chandler is OK, but it'll be interesting to see if the Bills re-sign him. I have high hopes for Woods, who EJ seems to have chemistry with.
The Lions' running game averaged 4.0 YPC that year, which is about average. And even if the defense was lousy, that would just mean more passing. There was no talk of W-L record, which the defense being bad would mostly affect. But I'd trade Stafford's 2009 receiving crew of Megatron, Smith, Johnson, and Pettigrew for the Bills' crew last year anyday and twice on Sunday.

As for Lewis, he's been around the NFL for a couple years and would have an advantage over a rookie. And he was healthy. He'll be kept around as competition and my prove to be better than just a backup. But in the games he won, he did little, while in the games he lost, he did okay.

[swiper]

- - - Updated - - -

I feel sad for you.

Don't. I'm infinitely more intelligent than you.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Don't. I'm infinitely more intelligent than you.The impossibility of that statement alone proves you wrong... You're embarrassing yourself.

[Rob's House]

Those of you who think your more smarter than everyone else are annoying to those of us who really are.

[kishoph]

I don't remember Manuel playing an real cold weather games, do you? The guy played a game in New York in mid-November...after that, he had the bye-week, played in Toronto's dome, then played two games in Florida. They he got hurt again and missed the last two games. The interesting part will be to see how Manuel actually handles some terrible weather in Buffalo. We haven't seen it.


The November game was in Buffalo and although it was warm the wind was strong over 20 mph. with gust close to 50 mph. Manuel went 20 of 28 with 2 TD's and no picks (245 yds.), while Geno Smith went 8 of 23 with no TD's and 3 picks (103 yds.). The wind at the Ralph is tricky because it swirls a lot and Manuel did pretty well playing in it for the 1st time in those conditions. He has the arm strength to play at the Ralph, it shouldn't be a worry.

[bleve]

16776

[better days]

16776

A card bleve has received a number of times.

[WagonCircler]

A card bleve has received a number of times.

Do you think they left the apostrophe out ironically?

[swiper]

The impossibility of that statement alone proves you wrong... You're embarrassing yourself.

Anytime you want to compare, you just let me know. The only person who is embarassing himself is the one who keeps ringing the bell for Manuel - he who apparently didn't watch him play.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Anytime you want to compare, you just let me know. The only person who is embarassing himself is the one who keeps ringing the bell for Manuel - he who apparently didn't watch him play.Whoa... That's an awful long post for you... You must be exhausted.

[swiper]

Whoa... That's an awful long post for you... You must be exhausted.

Yeah. You're right. I really stretched you attention span.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I know you are but what am I? God bless ya... Good luck to you.

[swiper]

I know you are but what am I? God bless ya... Good luck to you.

My feelings exactly.

[Goobylal]

The November game was in Buffalo and although it was warm the wind was strong over 20 mph. with gust close to 50 mph. Manuel went 20 of 28 with 2 TD's and no picks (245 yds.), while Geno Smith went 8 of 23 with no TD's and 3 picks (103 yds.). The wind at the Ralph is tricky because it swirls a lot and Manuel did pretty well playing in it for the 1st time in those conditions. He has the arm strength to play at the Ralph, it shouldn't be a worry.
Yep, which is why I mentioned Stafford playing in a dome helping him out.

[bleve]

A card bleve has received a number of times.

LOL, it was not directed at you.

More of a Public Service Announcement.

[tomz]

Actually, the Pope is Latino, or, as the propagandist media would put it "White Hispanic."

I have a Chilean friend who hates being called Hispanic or Latino. FYI, South America had a huge amount of European immigration just like the US. Lots of Germans, Italians etc in Argentina.

[WagonCircler]

I have a Chilean friend who hates being called Hispanic or Latino. FYI, South America had a huge amount of European immigration just like the US. Lots of Germans, Italians etc in Argentina.

Lighten up Francis. It was a joke.

[Skooby]

Whoa man done people need to get a grip.

[swiper]

Lighten up Francis. It was a joke.

ROFL. Watched part of Stripes again the other day. Forgot how funny it was.

It was all well and good until the Mrs. walked in on John Candy mud wrestling topless chicks. Swiftly the remote changed hands.

[Bangarang]

Those of you who think your more smarter than everyone else are annoying to those of us who really are.

you're*

more smarter?

Oh my.....

[alohabillsfan]

Change thread title to "not good news for bills fans that want to sniff the playoffs"

[Mike]

Yep, which is why I mentioned Stafford playing in a dome helping him out.

Basically your saying EJ sucking is excusable due to weather conditions? Regardless of your rationale, in the end EJ has to put on his big boy boots and go to work. Hopefully, he won't get another boo boo on his knee and miss time. And let's just hope, that one day soon EJ will actually be able to hold Staford's jockstrap.

[Mike]

Not sure about the specific Lion details... But I do know the Bills details...
1) Rookie head coach: this
2) Rookie OC:
3) 3 rookie WR's
4) 1 vet WR having a tough year regarding injury and personal issues
5) 1 RB battling a high ankle sprain for almost the entire season
6) 1 other RB battling some dings of his own
7) A suspect OL

1) Injuries are part of the NFL
2) WR: Bills WR were average. Not great or bad, but average.
3) RB: injuries didn't slow the Bills down that much as we had a very good running game in 2013
4) Oline: last year it was a strenght now it's a weakness? What happened?
A. QB: EJ hold the ball way to long and has poor pocket awarenes.
B. Talent: Loosing Levitre hurt more than most would have liked to admit before letting him go. Hey at least the Bills saved some $$$;)!
C. The Dancing RB: Spiller does his best impersonation of his rookie self, dancing left then right then straight to the ground.
D. Coaching: made a little difference as 2012 offense was better.

[Goobylal]

Basically your saying EJ sucking is excusable due to weather conditions? Regardless of your rationale, in the end EJ has to put on his big boy boots and go to work. Hopefully, he won't get another boo boo on his knee and miss time. And let's just hope, that one day soon EJ will actually be able to hold Staford's jockstrap.
No, it's a comparison of rookie seasons and how Stafford threw in a dome 7 times his rookie year compared to 1 for EJ. Not to mention having a far better group of receivers.