Off topic: Did Pettine know he was stepping into a hornets' nest?

[TigerJ]

Not directly Bills related, but it's been announced in Cleveland that GM Mike Lombardi and team CEO Joe Banner are out. Assistant GM Ray Farmer takes over as GM. According to the article, this is good news for Pettine. I'm not sure how, but I'm it looks like the owner blamed Banner and Lombardi for the poor way the Browns have been run.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325021/article/browns-announce-banner-lombardi-to-step-down

[Meathead]

well pettine is going to make out like a bandit bc no matter what happens hes going to get another shot at a hc job after this one anyway. nobody is going to hold it against him if he doesnt win here and will like that hes now an experienced hc and thus is less of a risk than he was. so smart move by him regardless

this could be an advantage to him bc it gives him more direct control without more layers of mgmt to get in his way. of course that means hes more on his won to screw up but again i just dont think the clusterfubar there is going to hurt his chances for his next hc job

[Historian]

Screw Pettine...he's going to have enough FU money for the rest of his life.

I feel bad for the Cleveland fans.

They're the ones paying for this circus.

[ICRockets]

I don't feel bad for Browns fans. They stole our movie.

**** you, Costner.

[trapezeus]

I don't feel bad for Browns fans. They stole our movie.

**** you, Costner.

perhaps not. what happens if the movie sucks? then they jumped on the grenade meant for us. Of course, if its an alltime great sports movie, we got the short end of the stick.

[gebobs]

perhaps not. what happens if the movie sucks?
If it features Kevin Costner, it better have a great supporting cast or it will most assuredly.

[jimmifli]

If it features Kevin Costner, it better have a great supporting cast or it will most assuredly.
He's made some REALLY good sports movies.

Bull Durham, Field of Dreams and Tin Cup are all movies I'd watch again on a Sunday afternoon. ****, For Love Of The Game was even a watchable chick flick.

[DBrown77]

So now the new front office has zero ties to the Pettine hire. He's screwed. And thats why no one else would take the job. Hope he sinks.

[feldspar]

He's made some REALLY good sports movies.

Bull Durham, Field of Dreams and Tin Cup are all movies I'd watch again on a Sunday afternoon. ****, For Love Of The Game was even a watchable chick flick.

Kevin Costner gets a bad rap sometimes. Yeah, he's made some real stinkers, but I like a LOT of the movies he was in or behind.

But I agree with ICRockets: **** Kevin Costner. LOL.

[trapezeus]

Pettine does have a decent defensive based on cleveland. if he's given a chance to implement his style with players he believes in, then he's in position to put together a very good defense in cle, just like he was doing in buffalo. His offense might still suck if he's got people like hackett that he trusts. And i still think browns fans will forgive him based on his strong pedigree, the fact he probably will get the defense much better next year, and they know their QB situation is in flux.

i just dont see him doing a poor enough job to get canned quickly.

[better days]

He's made some REALLY good sports movies.

Bull Durham, Field of Dreams and Tin Cup are all movies I'd watch again on a Sunday afternoon. ****, For Love Of The Game was even a watchable chick flick.

Agreed, but all those movies had a GOOD cast around Costner.

Especially Bull Durham. I LOVE Susan Sarandon & with Tim Robbins & Robert Wuhl that cast was STRONG.

[gebobs]

He's made some REALLY good sports movies.

Bull Durham, Field of Dreams and Tin Cup are all movies I'd watch again on a Sunday afternoon. ****, For Love Of The Game was even a watchable chick flick.
No doubt. But a good supporting cast is key.

Field of Dreams: Ray Liotta, James Earl Jones, Burt Lancaster
Bull Durham: Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Robert Wuhl

Waterworld, the Postman...not so much.

I didn't care for Tin Cup and never saw For Love of the Game.

IMHO, Costner is an actor on a level about somewhat below Nick Cage. They both have made some really good movies in spite of their own rather limited acting.

Sorry for derailing the thread. I will desist.

[Skooby]

No doubt. But a good supporting cast is key.

Field of Dreams: Ray Liotta, James Earl Jones, Burt Lancaster
Bull Durham: Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Robert Wuhl

I didn't care for Tin Cup and never saw For Love of the Game.

IMHO, Costner is an actor on a level about somewhat below Nick Cage. They both have made some really good movies in spite of their own rather limited acting.

Sorry for derailing the thread. I will desist.

Cage's ghost-rider movies are masterpieces of theatrical work, lol.

[gebobs]

Cage's ghost-rider movies are masterpieces of theatrical work, lol.

Wait for the remake of Left Behind....wowowowowow!

Leaving Las Vegas though was rather poignant. Moonstruck was charming. And Raising Arizona was hilarious. None of them stretched his range and the supporting casts were excellent.

Well, maybe not Leaving Las Vegas, but Elizabeth Shue was very good and Cage put in the performance of his life. Still, how the Academy picked him over Anthony Hopkins (Nixon), Sean Penn (Dead Man Walking) or Massimo Troisi (Il Postino) is a mystery.

These things happen. Rocky won over Network and Taxi Driver. LOL

[BillsFever21]

Why would Haslem let them hire a coach if he planned on canning them? Maybe most of the decision was with Haslem and Ray Farmer.

[The Jokeman]

Pettine does have a decent defensive based on cleveland. if he's given a chance to implement his style with players he believes in, then he's in position to put together a very good defense in cle, just like he was doing in buffalo. His offense might still suck if he's got people like hackett that he trusts. And i still think browns fans will forgive him based on his strong pedigree, the fact he probably will get the defense much better next year, and they know their QB situation is in flux.

i just dont see him doing a poor enough job to get canned quickly.

The new Browns' owner is showing to be very trigger happy as he seems to fire almost anyone who doesn't do anything after one or two years which is a poor way of developing an organization it's actually similar to the way Wilson used to run the Bills. One thing I do like with Russ Brandon isn't as knee jerk as when Ralph was running the show as we actually knew Nix was going to be here on borrowed time and head a successor waiting in the wings in Whaley. Also he isn't afraid to bring in outsiders (see Schwartz) when the easy hire/Ralph approach might have been to promote Donnie Henderson to be DC. Time will tell how long things will last but it just feels different to me this time then it did with Losman/Edwards, RJ/Flutie, Todd Collins. As it feels like we have changed the culture as we're trying to develop the talent/team. Of course if we lose Byrd in UFA then I will be screaming that it's the same old stuff but right now think if we keep Byrd around and grab a few solid free agents and draft as well as have in last two years then we could be a true Wild Card contender in 2014.

[Mace]

Been following the Browns thing back into the season, reading their papers and boards too, because I was absolutely certain there was a reason Lombardi was not employed by an organization for a long time. There was a really strong sense of Banner, not a traditional guy, and Lombardi (who didn't even appear at press conferences) poking way too much into just about everything.

Even when they hired Pettine, Banner came out and said something to the effect of "he already had a DC in mind" like he wasn't going to let Pettine choose his DC, which was extremely weird.

I actually think Haslam wised up, streamlined his organization (the one guy is business side only, Farmer the new GM is actually respected in personnel matters and is football only) and made it more likely Pettine can succeed (though I think the little Shanny hire was terrible).

But the Browns did the right thing by getting the meddling Banner and last chance Lombardi the heck away from it.

I'm also going to come out and say Cage's performance in Kick-Ass was the stuff of cinematic legend, though Costner in Waterworld was a definitive thespian effort worthy of note.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bodyguard
Dances with Wolves
Robin Hood
Hatfields and McCoys
The Untouchables

All good movies.

[gebobs]

Yeah...the Bodyguard and Robin Hood. That was some great stuff there. LOL Good grief.

And The Untouchables was...well...untouchable. That flick had the staying power of Rob Ford on a Saturday after an eight-ball and a case of 50's.

[feldspar]

Yeah...the Bodyguard and Robin Hood. That was some great stuff there. LOL Good grief.

And The Untouchables was...well...untouchable. That flick had the staying power of Rob Ford on a Saturday after an eight-ball and a case of 50's.

The Untouchables was good for sure.

Offhand, one movie I thought he was really good in was "A Perfect World." It wasn't because of a supporting cast either...he was with a little kid most of the time. Clint Eastwood as in it (directed it too, I think), but they only shared one scene, and the movie was pretty much driven by Kostner's performance. If you haven't seen it, that one is worth watching.

I really enjoyed "Open Range" too. He can make some pretty good Westerns. "Dances with Wolves" wasn't too shabby.

[BuffaloRedleg]

He's made some REALLY good sports movies.

Bull Durham, Field of Dreams and Tin Cup are all movies I'd watch again on a Sunday afternoon. ****, For Love Of The Game was even a watchable chick flick.

But what about the Postman and Waterworld?????? (Vomits and dies)

[Skooby]

The Bodyguard where he guards Whitney Houston is brutal, why were they guarding her again ??

[better days]

The Untouchables was good for sure.

Offhand, one movie I thought he was really good in was "A Perfect World." It wasn't because of a supporting cast either...he was with a little kid most of the time. Clint Eastwood as in it (directed it too, I think), but they only shared one scene, and the movie was pretty much driven by Kostner's performance. If you haven't seen it, that one is worth watching.

I really enjoyed "Open Range" too. He can make some pretty good Westerns. "Dances with Wolves" wasn't too shabby.


I liked Dances with Wolves even if it was too long. 25 Minutes could easily have been cut from that movie & it would have been a better movie.

Costner should stick to Westerns & Sports as movie subjects. I hope this Browns movie is good even if about the Browns instead of the Bills.

[DynaPaul]

I thought the Untouchables and Robin Hood sucked personally. He just doesn't make it as a tough guy action hero in any movie I've ever seen. The better Robin Hood was the one with Russell Crowe. Don't even get me started on the abortion that was Wyatt Earp especially when compared to the likes of the superior Tombstone.

[Skooby]

I thought the Untouchables and Robin Hood sucked personally. He just doesn't make it as a tough guy action hero in any movie I've ever seen. The better Robin Hood was the one with Russell Crowe. Don't even get me started on the abortion that was Wyatt Earp especially when compared to the likes of the superior Tombstone.
Tombstone actually made Val Kilmer seem like a decent actor, how's that for depth ?

[better days]

I thought the Untouchables and Robin Hood sucked personally. He just doesn't make it as a tough guy action hero in any movie I've ever seen. The better Robin Hood was the one with Russell Crowe. Don't even get me started on the abortion that was Wyatt Earp especially when compared to the likes of the superior Tombstone.

Wyatt Earp, yet another movie Costner made that was TOO LONG. Cut 25 minutes from that move & it would have helped, but it still would not compare to Tombstone.

[GvilleBills]

The Bodyguard where he guards Whitney Houston is brutal, why were they guarding her again ??
He was trying to keep her away from Bobby Brown.

[trapezeus]

The Bodyguard where he guards Whitney Houston is brutal, why were they guarding her again ??


protection from bobby brown

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damn you gvillebills...beat me to it. should scrolled to the bottom before i posted.

[GvilleBills]

protection from bobby brown

- - - Updated - - -

damn you gvillebills...beat me to it. should scrolled to the bottom before i posted.
Great minds, Trap. ;)

[Skooby]

LOL, classic.

[feldspar]

But wow...this puts it into a little perspective:

Since November 2012, the Browns have fired two head coaches (Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski), two general managers (Tom Heckert, Lombardi), one CEO (Banner) and one team president (Mike Holmgren). In Jimmy Haslam's 17 months as owner, the organization has employed a whopping 56 coaches.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325306/article/report-greg-schiano-meeting-led-to-rift-within-browns

That's beyond outrageous. I can't even say anything but let this speak for itself.

The Browns might be better off if they just fire themselves, if you catch my drift.

[Skooby]

But wow...this puts it into a little perspective:

Since November 2012, the Browns have fired two head coaches (Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski), two general managers (Tom Heckert, Lombardi), one CEO (Banner) and one team president (Mike Holmgren). In Jimmy Haslam's 17 months as owner, the organization has employed a whopping 56 coaches.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325306/article/report-greg-schiano-meeting-led-to-rift-within-browns

That's beyond outrageous. I can't even say anything but let this speak for itself.

The Browns might be better off if they just fire themselves, if you catch my drift.

Still don't know what Pettine was thinking going there. It's like he went looking for a train wreck up the track to find the mangled conductor & turn his ticket in. The train isn't going anyone & there's years of clean-up, yet he has his ticket in hand.

Mike really messed-up & anyone he's brought in is even more SOL.

[Mace]

Mike really messed-up & anyone he's brought in is even more SOL.

Might be because of little Shanny, but way better off without the Banner and Lombardi show. Cleveland may well have fixed themselves finally.

[better days]

Still don't know what Pettine was thinking going there. It's like he went looking for a train wreck up the track to find the mangled conductor & turn his ticket in. The train isn't going anyone & there's years of clean-up, yet he has his ticket in hand.

Mike really messed-up & anyone he's brought in is even more SOL.

Well, at least Mike gets PAID. He is set for life financially because of this job.

The guys he brought in with him..............not so much.

[Skooby]

Might be because of little Shanny, but way better off without the Banner and Lombardi show. Cleveland may well have fixed themselves finally.

56 coaches later ?? That sounds like a ship-wreck not a solution. I have no idea why so many people here figure firing people & replacing them automatically makes the situation better for the team. There must of been something wrong there to begin with & other issues, bringing in new people doesn't necessarily resolve anything positively.

That all being said, Banner needed to go & why Mike Pettine went there is a mystery.

[BillsFever21]

56 coaches later ?? That sounds like a ship-wreck not a solution. I have no idea why so many people here figure firing people & replacing them automatically makes the situation better for the team. There must of been something wrong there to begin with & other issues, bringing in new people doesn't necessarily resolve anything positively.

That all being said, Banner needed to go & why Mike Pettine went there is a mystery.

For the opportunity to become a HC and the huge raise of guaranteed money that goes along with it. Would you turn it down? It's not like anyone else was knocking on his door this offseason.

We will now never know if he would've received a HC offer in a year or two from another team. He took the job and money while he had the chance. It's a horrible organization but most of the time you are stepping into a bad situation. That's usually why a team is looking for a new coach. He could've turned it down and waited years(or maybe never) for another offer to come along.

And lets face it that it's not like he was leaving a great current situation in Buffalo. He left a DC position in Buffalo with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years. It's not like the Bills haven't went through their share of coaches either. Every 3 years we keep "rebuilding" because they screwed up the hires to begin with. For all he knew he could've been looking for another DC job in a couple years. He took the opportunity and money when it came along. Many other guys turned it down but they have a more established resume then Pettine did. That's why he got the job because the other 7 guys or so didn't want it.

[Skooby]

For the opportunity to become a HC and the huge raise of guaranteed money that goes along with it. Would you turn it down? It's not like anyone else was knocking on his door this offseason.

We will now never know if he would've received a HC offer in a year or two from another team. He took the job and money while he had the chance. It's a horrible organization but most of the time you are stepping into a bad situation. That's usually why a team is looking for a new coach. He could've turned it down and waited years(or maybe never) for another offer to come along.

And lets face it that it's not like he was leaving a great current situation in Buffalo. He left a DC position in Buffalo with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years. It's not like the Bills haven't went through their share of coaches either. Every 3 years we keep "rebuilding" because they screwed up the hires to begin with. For all he knew he could've been looking for another DC job in a couple years. He took the opportunity and money when it came along. Many other guys turned it down but they have a more established resume then Pettine did. That's why he got the job because the other 7 guys or so didn't want it.

There's a high road you try to stay on, Browns right now were the lowest possible road in any coaching capacity.

[JoeMama]

But what about the Postman and Waterworld?????? (Vomits and dies)

Waterworld is hilarious because it's the perfect example of how NOT to spend money in Hollywood.

That floating junkpile called "the Atoll" was constructed off the coast of Hawaii and cost 22 million dollars. And they constructed it during hurricane season, so of course, it was destroyed by a hurricane and had to be completely reconstructed.

The producers dropped almost 2 mil to CGI Costner's hairline.... because an audience can't take a gilled water-mutant who recycles his own urine seriously if he's balding. AMIRITE?

The plot itself really isn't that bad, but the production budget and rumors of mismanagement doomed the project from day one, and people never really took it seriously.

On the plus side, it was one of Jack Black's first appearances in a major movie. He was in it for about 5 seconds as a pilot. Woo!

[stuckincincy]

There's a high road you try to stay on, Browns right now were the lowest possible road in any coaching capacity.

Given the rookie cap and their plethora of high picks, I'm thinking that Pettine will get a shiny new QB to play with. My guess is that CLE leads the league in qb switches since their resurrection, beating out WAS, with BUF farther back in the pack.

I'm one of the few that thought Tim Couch a decent qb. Between getting broken to pieces playing behind lousy lines, receiver merry-go-rounds, an ownership and management orbiting somewhere past Uranus, no wonder he bawled.

[Bill Cody]

If they find a QB the merry go round will stop. If they don't it won't.

[Mace]

56 coaches later ?? That sounds like a ship-wreck not a solution. I have no idea why so many people here figure firing people & replacing them automatically makes the situation better for the team. There must of been something wrong there to begin with & other issues, bringing in new people doesn't necessarily resolve anything positively.

That all being said, Banner needed to go & why Mike Pettine went there is a mystery.

Well yeah, 56 coaches later is kind of painful collateral damage to booting the pair of schmucks responsible for not letting them do anything, but I think they'll get winks and sympathy at their future job interviews and I don't think it ruined anyones career.

In this case, it IS more important to fire and replace, not meaning the 56 coaches but the pair responsible for the chaos of 56 coaches coming and going, so even more don't. It's questionable whether they could even have been the right hires and largely resumed their careers without much trouble.

The trouble and issues, which are pretty much getting out there now, were all about aggressively, aggravatingly annoying Banner and passive, invisible Lombardi. Pettine, took the job because he was just that desperate I guess, and good chance now it may give him a more fair chance at success with Farmer and the business guy. I'm annoyed he bailed so fast on us, but I think his effort in jumping into that mess tells you he didn't plan on being here long in any case.

Cleveland boards kind of annoy me, because they seem to think they're a notch above Buffalo mud without realizing they're standing in as much Cleveland mud, but they are knowledgable fans in the mold of Buffalo ones. They're pretty happy atm.

I still think they have reason to be. I think the circus is over.