More Support for...

[Yasgur's Farm]

EJ to be able to continue his journey///

http://www.buffalowins.com/buffalo-bills/articles/beyond-the-stats-ej-manuel-vs-the-rookie-spread.html

[Skooby]

It scares me how fans that pine for a huge question mark at QB, it's been our biggest Achilles heal. Lets all fall in love with whoever wears the jersey, gets injured 3 times in one season (2 different knees) & yet he's going to save the team. The branch that all of you walk out on that do this will hardly support the weight. I'd look for an additional alternative before committing your soul to EJ if I were you guys, him being "the one" seems unlikely.

[OpIv37]

It scares me how fans that pine for a huge question mark at QB, it's been our biggest Achilles heal. Lets all fall in love with whoever wears the jersey, gets injured 3 times in one season (2 different knees) & yet he's going to save the team. The branch that all of you walk out on that do this will hardly support the weight. I'd look for an additional alternative before committing your soul to EJ if I were you guys, him being "the one" seems unlikely.

Here's the problem: fans HAVE to believe that, because if it's not true, then we still need a QB and will still struggle until we find him

Realistically, though, I don't know why anyone thinks EJ won't be given more time. I get the concerns about both his play and his durability, and they are legitimate concerns. But first, the org invested a 1st round pick in him, and second, they threw him to the wolves in a position with a notoriously high learning curve with questionable WR's and a mediocre OL. And finally, who are we going to get that's better? Even if they wanted to replace him, there are no franchise QB's available via FA or trade (Cutler is NOT a franchise QB- if he was they wouldn't be considering trading him), and we are not drafting high enough to get a top prospect.

Sure, we could mortgage the future to move up and take a chance on one of the top QB's, but that's even more risky than sticking with EJ and ignores the reality of glaring holes at other positions.

So, all we can do is hope that EJ's the guy. Remember, hope is different from expectations.

[Skooby]

Here's the problem: fans HAVE to believe that, because if it's not true, then we still need a QB and will still struggle until we find him

Realistically, though, I don't know why anyone thinks EJ won't be given more time. I get the concerns about both his play and his durability, and they are legitimate concerns. But first, the org invested a 1st round pick in him, and second, they threw him to the wolves in a position with a notoriously high learning curve with questionable WR's and a mediocre OL. And finally, who are we going to get that's better? Even if they wanted to replace him, there are no franchise QB's available via FA or trade (Cutler is NOT a franchise QB- if he was they wouldn't be considering trading him), and we are not drafting high enough to get a top prospect.

Sure, we could mortgage the future to move up and take a chance on one of the top QB's, but that's even more risky than sticking with EJ and ignores the reality of glaring holes at other positions.

So, all we can do is hope that EJ's the guy. Remember, hope is different from expectations.

The world is going to end for sure now, where the F is that asteroid at ?

[alohabillsfan]

If we don't draft a QB in the first 3 rounds then this franchise is just stupid.

[bleve]

It scares me how fans that pine for a huge question mark at QB, it's been our biggest Achilles heal. Lets all fall in love with whoever wears the jersey, gets injured 3 times in one season (2 different knees) & yet he's going to save the team. The branch that all of you walk out on that do this will hardly support the weight. I'd look for an additional alternative before committing your soul to EJ if I were you guys, him being "the one" seems unlikely.

There are those that say, they've seen enough and we should look for other options, and there are those that concede EJ did not impress, but needs the proper amount of time to develop. I don't think anyone's "in love" with EJ.

I don't pretend to evaluate QB's for a living, but I do know that reps are important to the quarterback's timing, and mechanics. Those reps were missing last year. Give him a full off season, and the proper amount of reps in OTA's and spring training, then see what shakes out in the first five games or so.

And having a backup plan is a good idea, but as mentioned, there ain't nothing out there.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Look... It's simple...

We've invested in him. The best case scenario is that he continues to grow toward being the solution. And the stats show that he compares well with both historical and most recent rookie starters...

Worst case scenario is that he busts... And, in spite of what the "he's already a bust" crew says, it's simply not supported by facts.

So... As I've stated before... I want to save our highest draft picks in 2014 to fill holes and build a supporting structure. That way, it's all in place for either EJ to continue with in 2015, or for the 2015 drafted QB to begin to grow with... If EJ doesn't contribute to the Bills winning at least 9 games in 2014, I'm on board with drafting the best QB we can get in 2015.

[Skooby]

Look... It's simple...

We've invested in him. The best case scenario is that he continues to grow toward being the solution. And the stats show that he compares well with both historical and most recent rookie starters...

Worst case scenario is that he busts... And, in spite of what the "he's already a bust" crew says, it's simply not supported by facts.

So... As I've stated before... I want to save our highest draft picks in 2014 to fill holes and build a supporting structure. That way, it's all in place for either EJ to continue with in 2015, or for the 2015 drafted QB to begin to grow with... If EJ doesn't contribute to the Bills winning at least 9 games in 2014, I'm on board with drafting the best QB we can get in 2015.

Going for broke leaves you broke more often than not & our QB position is so far from secured it's scarey. I'm not saying to throw EJ away by any means, I'm saying lets invest another early pick in the QB position. If EJ stays healthy & gets it clicking then it's all great. If one of his knees gives out again, we can put the new early pick in & watch him run around for a while EJ gets healthy.

[DesertFox24]

If we don't draft a QB in the first 3 rounds then this franchise is just stupid.

Or draft people to play around EJ and get a true evaluation of the guy, and if he fails draft one next year.

EJ was going to get this year no matter what and probably the 2015 season as well. If he falters in 2014 then I say draft a guy in 2015 draft to compete with EJ and see what happens. This happened with San Diego when they had Brees and then drafted Rivers.

I personally would rather use this draft to get talent on both sides of the ball, this is the deepest draft in 20 years and we could be able to get third round guys in round 5 and rond 4 5 guys in round 7, and probably draftable guys as UDFAs.

Lets get as much young talent as we can.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Going for broke leaves you broke more often than not & our QB position is so far from secured it's scarey. I'm not saying to throw EJ away by any means, I'm saying lets invest another early pick in the QB position. If EJ stays healthy & gets it clicking then it's all great. If one of his knees gives out again, we can put the new early pick in & watch him run around for a while EJ gets healthy.How can you say that waiting until 2015 is "going for broke"? One could argue that drafting another high round QB in 2014 is going for broke... Especially when we have at least 3 obvious holes to fill. 2015 is the logical time period to make this decision!

[cookie G]

Look... It's simple...

We've invested in him. The best case scenario is that he continues to grow toward being the solution. And the stats show that he compares well with both historical and most recent rookie starters...

I'm sorry, but how does he compare "well"?

Looking at the first stat, the net yards/att....he's ahead of Gabbert, Glennon and Ponder. In case you hadn't heard, Ponder and Gabbert are being replaced...not sure on Glennon, but he's iffy at best. He's below Weeden, who is also going to be replaced, and Geno Smith, who few claim had a stellar rookie year.

He's actually far below people like Newton, RGIII and Wilson...like several yards below. Nonetheless, the article claims he's slightly below the middle of the pack. When you translate that, it means, "below average".

When you go through the stats, except for completion percentage, just about everything is below average. You can argue that his TD/INT percentage is good...but the man only threw 11 TD passes. THAT'S well below average...and far closer to Trent Edwards land than Russell Wilson land.

If anything, that article paints a pretty bleak picture...realizing how far behind the curve he really is.

[SpikedLemonade]

... If EJ doesn't contribute to the Bills winning at least 9 games in 2014, I'm on board with drafting the best QB we can get in 2015.

That is too high a bar.

[WagonCircler]

Or draft people to play around EJ and get a true evaluation of the guy, and if he fails draft one next year.

Here's the problem with that:

EJs two biggest problems are inaccuracy and injuries.

It doesn't matter who you put around him, those two don't change.

[swiper]

The people around him were fine. Big Ben would have taken that offense deep into the play-offs. The notion that that offense wasn't good enough is pure bull.

[Turf]

Aside from EJ staying healthy, which is highly unlikely, I have yet to see him thread a few passes with some force into very tight spots for completions. I've seen just the opposite, where he can't hit wide open people or throw a sideline route. Until I see that, my hopes for him are dashed.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'm sorry, but how does he compare "well"?

Looking at the first stat, the net yards/att....he's ahead of Gabbert, Glennon and Ponder. In case you hadn't heard, Ponder and Gabbert are being replaced...not sure on Glennon, but he's iffy at best. He's below Weeden, who is also going to be replaced, and Geno Smith, who few claim had a stellar rookie year.

He's actually far below people like Newton, RGIII and Wilson...like several yards below. Nonetheless, the article claims he's slightly below the middle of the pack. When you translate that, it means, "below average".

When you go through the stats, except for completion percentage, just about everything is below average. You can argue that his TD/INT percentage is good...but the man only threw 11 TD passes. THAT'S well below average...and far closer to Trent Edwards land than Russell Wilson land.

If anything, that article paints a pretty bleak picture...realizing how far behind the curve he really is.You make good valid points except for the 11 TD's part... I know I'm falling into the "injury prone" spider's web... But those 11 TD's over less than 10 full games translate to 18 or 19 over 16 games.

One other thing to consider... In spite of those who say he's "wildly inaccurate"... He ranks very well in terms of completion percentage.

On the negative side... It seems he's more accurate when throwing to his right than left.

All in all... I've clearly stated what my minimum expectations are for 2014... 14 starts, 9 wins, 60% completion, 7 YPA, 20 TD's, 12 INT's, 80 passer rating. If he falls short, I'm exploring ways to the #1 QB in 2015.

Is there one poster out there who wouldn't be satisfied with that stat line?

[Skooby]

You make good valid points except for the 11 TD's part... I know I'm falling into the "injury prone" spider's web... But those 11 TD's over less than 10 full games translate to 18 or 19 over 16 games.

One other thing to consider... In spite of those who say he's "wildly inaccurate"... He ranks very well in terms of completion percentage.

On the negative side... It seems he's more accurate when throwing to his right than left.

All in all... I've clearly stated what my minimum expectations are for 2014... 14 starts, 9 wins, 60% completion, 7 YPA, 20 TD's, 12 INT's, 80 passer rating. If he falls short, I'm exploring ways to the #1 QB in 2015.

Is there one poster out there who wouldn't be satisfied with that stat line?

9 wins ? Are we drafting a healthy starting QB first in the draft ?

[Skooby]

I'm sorry, but how does he compare "well"?

Looking at the first stat, the net yards/att....he's ahead of Gabbert, Glennon and Ponder. In case you hadn't heard, Ponder and Gabbert are being replaced...not sure on Glennon, but he's iffy at best. He's below Weeden, who is also going to be replaced, and Geno Smith, who few claim had a stellar rookie year.

He's actually far below people like Newton, RGIII and Wilson...like several yards below. Nonetheless, the article claims he's slightly below the middle of the pack. When you translate that, it means, "below average".

When you go through the stats, except for completion percentage, just about everything is below average. You can argue that his TD/INT percentage is good...but the man only threw 11 TD passes. THAT'S well below average...and far closer to Trent Edwards land than Russell Wilson land.

If anything, that article paints a pretty bleak picture...realizing how far behind the curve he really is.

Give him a chance, more blind faith is needed for the 15th season in a row.

[Yasgur's Farm]

WTF... I GUESS I'M DAMNED EITHER WAY!!

I'm accused of one who "pine for a huge question mark at QB", "fall in love with whoever wears the jersey", saying he "save the team"... But have a reasonable measure for success and I'm apparently off the feckin' wall.

I give up.

[Skooby]

WTF... I GUESS I'M DAMNED EITHER WAY!!

You can believe anything you want, I just feel we need a plan B because plan A fell down 3 times last season. If plan A somehow is still standing at the end of a successful season, then we have a good potential backup.

[Jeff1220]

Or draft people to play around EJ and get a true evaluation of the guy, and if he fails draft one next year.

EJ was going to get this year no matter what and probably the 2015 season as well. If he falters in 2014 then I say draft a guy in 2015 draft to compete with EJ and see what happens. This happened with San Diego when they had Brees and then drafted Rivers.

I personally would rather use this draft to get talent on both sides of the ball, this is the deepest draft in 20 years and we could be able to get third round guys in round 5 and rond 4 5 guys in round 7, and probably draftable guys as UDFAs.

Lets get as much young talent as we can.

This. At worst, EJ can keep the seat warm while the staff tries (yet again) to build a strong team around the position. If EJ doesn't pan out, then hopefully the pieces will be in place for the next guy in line to 1. have a strong enough team around him for immediate success and 2. have a strong enough team around him where there are no questions as to his ability. Honestly, this is the model they needed for EJ, but while they've drafted some good players, the need for certain positions (especially QB) had been neglected. The Steelers, the Ravens, and others have done this, built a solid team around the QB position, then inserted the franchise QB, and success came quickly.

[Skooby]

This. At worst, EJ can keep the seat warm while the staff tries (yet again) to build a strong team around the position. If EJ doesn't pan out, then hopefully the pieces will be in place for the next guy in line to 1. have a strong enough team around him for immediate success and 2. have a strong enough team around him where there are no questions as to his ability. Honestly, this is the model they needed for EJ, but while they've drafted some good players, the need for certain positions (especially QB) had been neglected. The Steelers, the Ravens, and others have done this, built a solid team around the QB position, then inserted the franchise QB, and success came quickly.

Like having a defense that has the most sacks or a pro-bowl type secondary? We're like another few pieces from a top-10 defense, stopping the run being a huge goal.

[swiper]

I give up.

Good. The diatribe sounded ridiculous.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Your contributions to BillsZone are priceless... What depth... What gems... What wisdom.
I am truely humbled by your assholiness.

[justasportsfan]

Or draft people to play around EJ and get a true evaluation of the guy, and if he fails draft one next year.

EJ was going to get this year no matter what and probably the 2015 season as well. If he falters in 2014 then I say draft a guy in 2015 draft to compete with EJ and see what happens. This happened with San Diego when they had Brees and then drafted Rivers.

I personally would rather use this draft to get talent on both sides of the ball, this is the deepest draft in 20 years and we could be able to get third round guys in round 5 and rond 4 5 guys in round 7, and probably draftable guys as UDFAs.

Lets get as much young talent as we can.
IMO, Marrone is going to do everything to help EJ this coming season. They've brought in a qb coach and Hostler to help the offense out. We still need OL help and I am almost sure Whaley will address this one way or another. We will know soon if EJ is the guy. I just hope they don't do it at the expense of team not making playoff. If he stinks the 1st 2 games, sit him.

[stuckincincy]

This. At worst, EJ can keep the seat warm while the staff tries (yet again) to build a strong team around the position. If EJ doesn't pan out, then hopefully the pieces will be in place for the next guy in line to 1. have a strong enough team around him for immediate success and 2. have a strong enough team around him where there are no questions as to his ability. Honestly, this is the model they needed for EJ, but while they've drafted some good players, the need for certain positions (especially QB) had been neglected. The Steelers, the Ravens, and others have done this, built a solid team around the QB position, then inserted the franchise QB, and success came quickly.

Good, thoughtful post.

[TigerJ]

WTF... I GUESS I'M DAMNED EITHER WAY!!

I'm accused of one who "pine for a huge question mark at QB", "fall in love with whoever wears the jersey", saying he "save the team"... But have a reasonable measure for success and I'm apparently off the feckin' wall.

I give up.For what it's worth, you and I are pretty much on the same wavelength regarding Manuel. There are others too.

[BillsFever21]

IMO, Marrone is going to do everything to help EJ this coming season. They've brought in a qb coach and Hostler to help the offense out. We still need OL help and I am almost sure Whaley will address this one way or another. We will know soon if EJ is the guy. I just hope they don't do it at the expense of team not making playoff. If he stinks the 1st 2 games, sit him.

If he stinks the first two games then sit him? If that's the case then we might as well draft a QB.

Our only hope of making the playoffs next year is with a good draft/FA along with EJ blossoming into a successful QB. He's all in for next season barring anymore injuries. Benching him after a bad couple games isn't going to do anything. Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel or whatever scrub may be on the team isn't going to lead us to the playoffs. It's not like we're a dominant team with a great coaching staff that only needs a caretaker to send us to the playoffs. Even if that did happen we would probably be gone in a 1st round blowout anyway.

Unless they draft another QB high in the draft(very doubtful) then he is the starter for next year and you leave him in for the season. You need to find out what we have in him next year. Even by the grace of god that some scrub didn't screw up enough to get us a WC at 8-8 or 9-7 then what does that really solve? We're still looking for a QB the following year anyway. If he's the QB then you give him the entire season and not just sit him after a bad couple games.

[Yasgur's Farm]

For what it's worth, you and I are pretty much on the same wavelength regarding Manuel. There are others too.Thanks or the back-up... Seems to me that the majority of us Bills fans feel that way.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It scares me how fans that pine for a huge question mark at QB, it's been our biggest Achilles heal. Lets all fall in love with whoever wears the jersey, gets injured 3 times in one season (2 different knees) & yet he's going to save the team. The branch that all of you walk out on that do this will hardly support the weight. I'd look for an additional alternative before committing your soul to EJ if I were you guys, him being "the one" seems unlikely.

What do you mean by this though?

Do you advocate drafting a QB at 9? Especially when none of the prospects are any more of a sure thing than Manuel?

And by doing this we don't address some other glaring holes we have.

Then we start a huge QB controversy that divides the team.

Do you guys hear what you are saying? It just sounds dumb.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No one is sure about Manuel. To me it is an obvious no brainer to give him another year.

If we took Blake Bortels, for example, that would be idiotic to me.