Kiko on the move to OLB? Seems to be headed that way...

[X-Era]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2014/2/21/5433914/kiko-alonso-position-change-weak-side-linebacker

Schwartz likely wants a bigger run stuffer for the MLB spot...cough-Spikes-cough.

Whaley seems to be echoing that Kiko may be better at OLB.

[DesertFox24]

I do not have a problem with bring in a better run defender for the MIKE spot but Spikes is a huge coverage liability. I wonder if they try to fill this need via the draft and see if the new can do it this year and if not keep Kiko at the MLB. Then in 2015 hopefully said rook can take over

[YardRat]

I really should be getting paid as a consultant for the team.

[Night Train]

Myself and many others have been posting this idea for months. We were gashed between the tackles in the run game.

Kiko is more effective when taking angles and not taking everyone head on. He's very fast in short areas and would be tough to block off the end. OLB for his own good so he's not beat up after 1 contract. Love the guys hustle.

[X-Era]

Myself and many others have been posting this idea for months. We were gashed between the tackles in the run game.

Kiko is more effective when taking angles and not taking everyone head on. He's very fast in short areas and would be tough to block off the end. OLB for his own good so he's not beat up after 1 contract. Love the guys hustle.You, Yardie, and others have been. It makes sense. Especially now that Schwartz and a more run stuffing minded D is here. The possible downside would be Kiko not being as effective overall as he was this past year. But Whaley is saying he thinks he could be even better.

[Turf]

So when I got flamed for saying Kiko looked too small for the middle, I was right. He's perfect for the outside.

[jimmifli]

I'd love to see two new LBs. Put Spikes in the middle and move Kiko outside. Then add a real pass rushing LB.

I know some people are OK with Hughes, but given our Dline, he's unblocked or only has a RB to beat on so many of his plays. A real pass rushing threat at LB would put opposing offenses in a very tough spot.

If Mack falls to us, as much as I would like to see us go Oline in the 1st, I think he adds a threat we haven't seen here in a few years. At the very least, one side of the ball would be entertaining to watch.

[Skooby]

I'd love to see two new LBs. Put Spikes in the middle and move Kiko outside. Then add a real pass rushing LB.

I know some people are OK with Hughes, but given our Dline, he's unblocked or only has a RB to beat on so many of his plays. A real pass rushing threat at LB would put opposing offenses in a very tough spot.

If Mack falls to us, as much as I would like to see us go Oline in the 1st, I think he adds a threat we haven't seen here in a few years. At the very least, one side of the ball would be entertaining to watch.

I think Mack would probably force opposing teams to gameplan for the pain, he'd make sure anyone running wouldn't just get tackled but planted. Those seeds pay dividends, every time a RBI gets a call to get the ball.

[Mace]

I'll happily go against the grain and say I think it's a woeful idea because he's good at being a MLB which is more than run stuffing because you have defensive linemen incapable of learning how to. He also called the defensive signals and adjustments as a rookie, and I'd say the results speak for themselves.

Alonso is 6'3", 238, which just flatly isn't too small not even considering he's been described as a gym rat, just went into a pro weight training regimen and is likely to add another 5 lbs of rock, easily.

Among MLBs, considering Fletcher, Vilma, Harris, Beason, Kuechly, Poz, Urlacher, Ryans, Mayo, Lewis, and Willis from recently, the only one he's not within 10 lbs of is the tanklike Urlacher, who showed a huffing inability to keep up with the evolving game as his career declined into injuries anyway.

IMHO, you force your 4 defensive lineman to start comprehending they need to tackle running backs too, and get a 3 down pure OLB to go along with him, like Barr, Mosely, or Mack.

To me, Alonso is just fine there in the middle and in the weight room.

[JoeMama]

I'd be interested to hear how Kiko Alonso feels about sliding to the outside.

He's shown such good instincts and play-making ability in the middle, I'm a little concerned about losing him there.

BUT...

If he can apply pressure and be a disruptive OLB, that's one of the best assets you can have on defense.

I'll sit back and see how this unfolds. No judgment yet.

Worst case scenario: it doesn't pan out as intended, we can slide him back inside.

We have some smart, competent men on our coaching staff. If they can use Kiko in some clever way... no harm no foul.

[jimmifli]

I'd be interested to hear how Kiko Alonso feels about sliding to the outside.

He's shown such good instincts and play-making ability in the middle, I'm a little concerned about losing him there.

BUT...

If he can apply pressure and be a disruptive OLB, that's one of the best assets you can have on defense.

I'll sit back and see how this unfolds. No judgment yet.

Worst case scenario: it doesn't pan out as intended and we can slide him back inside.

We have some smart, competent men on our coaching staff. If they can use Kiko in some clever way, I guess no harm no foul.
I think 3WR is base offense for most teams now, so for most plays there wouldn't be a change. That's why a guy like Spikes would fit so well. He only plays the run, the rest of the time we're in nickel anyways.

[OpIv37]

Kiko has already demonstrated his football smarts. The position change won't hurt him- his smaller size and speed are better suited for OLB anyway. I have no problem with this, provided the FO can come up with a true MLB this off- season. We don't have anyone else who can handle it at the moment.

[Mace]

Kiko has already demonstrated his football smarts. The position change won't hurt him- his smaller size and speed are better suited for OLB anyway. I have no problem with this, provided the FO can come up with a true MLB this off- season. We don't have anyone else who can handle it at the moment.

Ok, but so then you have a new guy call the defensive signals and adjustments as a rookie because his maybe is better than your proven who probably added 5 lbs from weight training and weighs same as he does anyway ?

I listed a bunch of LB's size wise, besides 70's mlb's, I'm not sure what anyone thinks a true mlb is ? Kuechly seems a standard ? Alonso weighs 3 lbs more.

[Mouldsie]

I'd love to see two new LBs. Put Spikes in the middle and move Kiko outside. Then add a real pass rushing LB.

I know some people are OK with Hughes, but given our Dline, he's unblocked or only has a RB to beat on so many of his plays. A real pass rushing threat at LB would put opposing offenses in a very tough spot.

If Mack falls to us, as much as I would like to see us go Oline in the 1st, I think he adds a threat we haven't seen here in a few years. At the very least, one side of the ball would be entertaining to watch.
Mack wont make it but if he does it would be an utter failure to pass on him. Incredible player right in our own back yard

[Mouldsie]

I think Mack would probably force opposing teams to gameplan for the pain, he'd make sure anyone running wouldn't just get tackled but planted. Those seeds pay dividends, every time a RBI gets a call to get the ball.
Yup. He has that Kyle Williams attitude that he wants to impose his will on everyone.
I'm so happy he's finally getting publicity but it might be too much as he looks like a top 5 pick now!
Mack has great athleticism but what really makes him special is he has violent hands and can play all phases of the game.

[Skooby]

Yup. He has that Kyle Williams attitude that he wants to impose his will on everyone.
I'm so happy he's finally getting publicity but it might be too much as he looks like a top 5 pick now!
Mack has great athleticism but what really makes him special is he has violent hands and can play all phases of the game.

Violence creates silence.

[YardRat]

I just don't see Mack being that successful at the next level. Nice to a local college kid so highly rated and wish him the best, though.

[Skooby]

I just don't see Mack being that successful at the next level. Nice to a local college kid so highly rated and wish him the best, though.

He's going to be a monster, we'd be lucky to have a chance at him.

[Mouldsie]

I just don't see Mack being that successful at the next level. Nice to a local college kid so highly rated and wish him the best, though.
He may not become an All-Pro but he's bust-proof in my opinion.

Speed? Check.
Power? Check.
Toughness? Check.
He can dip, bend, and beat double and triple teams using combinations of agility, strength, and violent hands. Then when he gets to the target he finishes them. He wins in many ways and that's why he'll make it in this league. Not only that but he can excel in any assignment or scheme as he plays the run, rushes the passer, and drops into coverage very well. And if it matters at all at that point he's also very disciplined in his assignments but knows when to improvise as the offense starts to create chaos (i.e. QB scrambles our of pressure or RB cuts it back ---i guess this would be called "instincts"). Just a complete college player and IMO will be a great pro.

[Skooby]

He may not become an All-Pro but he's bust-proof in my opinion.

Speed? Check.
Power? Check.
Toughness? Check.
He can dip, bend, and beat double and triple teams using combinations of agility, strength, and violent hands. Then when he gets to the target he finishes them. He wins in many ways and that's why he'll make it in this league. Not only that but he can excel in any assignment or scheme as he plays the run, rushes the passer, and drops into coverage very well. And if it matters at all at that point he's also very disciplined in his assignments but knows when to improvise as the offense starts to create chaos (i.e. QB scrambles our of pressure or RB cuts it back ---i guess this would be called "instincts"). Just a complete college player and IMO will be a great pro.

Brilliantly accurate, anyone thinking differently is sadly mistaken.

[Mace]

He may not become an All-Pro but he's bust-proof in my opinion.

Speed? Check.
Power? Check.
Toughness? Check.
He can dip, bend, and beat double and triple teams using combinations of agility, strength, and violent hands. Then when he gets to the target he finishes them. He wins in many ways and that's why he'll make it in this league. Not only that but he can excel in any assignment or scheme as he plays the run, rushes the passer, and drops into coverage very well. And if it matters at all at that point he's also very disciplined in his assignments but knows when to improvise as the offense starts to create chaos (i.e. QB scrambles our of pressure or RB cuts it back ---i guess this would be called "instincts"). Just a complete college player and IMO will be a great pro.

I guess I'll go against the grain again. And btw, I like Mack, he has the talent.

But everyone points to the Ohio State game early in the year. Helluva game. Baylor next week ? Bowling Green with a title on the line ? If he was a dominant unstoppable force, he should have been a dominant, unstoppable force. I watched the whole Bowling Green game and wondered why he wasn't. Bowling Green double teamed him ! Hm, the NFL has better players than Bowling Green (with props to them on their season). Awesome he's from UB, but he turns it on and off.

[Mouldsie]

Turns it on for the all time NCAA record for tackles for loss and forced fumbles

[Mouldsie]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/21/mike-mayock-would-take-khalil-mack-first-overall/

[Skooby]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/21/mike-mayock-would-take-khalil-mack-first-overall/

Mack has no friends on the opposing field, only pain.

[Mace]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/21/mike-mayock-would-take-khalil-mack-first-overall/

He's talked up plenty, like I said, I like his talent, but be honest, did you watch the Bowling Green game with a MAC title game on the line ? Besides buying into it, did you watch any of their games ? If you did, and I don't think many people did, I had time on my hands, I'm not talking highlights, I'm talking watching the games....and yeah, a lot of draft is presentation of highlights....., you wouldn't have noticed him much like I mentioned previously that no one will ever contradict because they didn't happen. I was excited about him and watched the streaming of their games.

He turns it on and off.

Last college game of his career, title on the line, he's being mentioned for awards and draft....against Bowling Green (having a killer year btw), and you heard him mentioned maybe twice, where was he ? I wanted UB to win that game or at least compete, they had this dominant pro caliber guy. Was he hurt or something ?

Draft is hype, hype is draft, you get more obvious results from big program players playing big against big teams under the microscope every week.

Mack has the talent, what situation makes him use it always ? Buffalo ? Yeah, like against Bowling Green.

Did you watch any UB games or are you just reading stuff and wanting it to be true ? I'm not trying to be a jerk Mouldsie, I want it to be true too.

[Mace]

Turns it on for the all time NCAA record for tackles for loss and forced fumbles

Btw he had two shots at tackles for loss record, and no. he didn't make it.

Correction : had the teams wrong. Tied it.

[Turf]

Appearance wise he looks like Lawrence Taylor.

[swiper]

LBs coming out in this draft with size, and presumed ability to help in run defense:

Anthony Barr 6' 4" 248 lbs
Kyle Van Noy 6' 3" 244 lbs
Khalil Mack 6' 3" 248 lbs

CJ Mosley a little lighter at 6' 2" 232 lbs

[YardRat]

Appearance wise he looks like Lawrence Taylor.

Uh-oh...you didn't really go there, did you?

[tampabay25690]

You, Yardie, and others have been. It makes sense. Especially now that Schwartz and a more run stuffing minded D is here. The possible downside would be Kiko not being as effective overall as he was this past year. But Whaley is saying he thinks he could be even better.

Yes this is a big reason we had trouble stopping the run!!
Luv the idea and have luved the idea of Spikes for a long time...

Bills fans would luv Brandon Spikes, hard working powerful ILB with a nasty streak...
Luved him when he was the leader of the defense at Florida..

[GingerP]

He may not become an All-Pro but he's bust-proof in my opinion.

Mike Mayock said if he had the top pick he would take Mack. He said he would take him over Clowney or any of the offensive players.

[Night Train]

I just don't see Mack being that successful at the next level. Nice to a local college kid so highly rated and wish him the best, though.

Disagree. I've stood in front of him and I'm 6-4. He's much bigger physically than Kiko. Doesn't fear sticking his helmet in the hole, when attending the UB games.

The Schwartz wide 9 look requires the 2 ILB's to move into holes between the DE & DT . Has to be physical and able to get off blocks. Mack fits the profile, along with guys like Boreland,Skov,Smallwood and a few others that could be starting types beyond the 1st round pick.

Bills need ILB's, no question.

[cookie G]

I guess I'll go against the grain again. And btw, I like Mack, he has the talent.

But everyone points to the Ohio State game early in the year. Helluva game. Baylor next week ? Bowling Green with a title on the line ? If he was a dominant unstoppable force, he should have been a dominant, unstoppable force. I watched the whole Bowling Green game and wondered why he wasn't. Bowling Green double teamed him ! Hm, the NFL has better players than Bowling Green (with props to them on their season). Awesome he's from UB, but he turns it on and off.

Wow..the Baylor game was brutal. I couldn't watch after the first half. If you didn't hear the hype about him from the week before, you wouldn't have known he was out there. It may or may not be a fair game to judge, but he didn't do himself any favors in that game. He might have gotten near Petty once and was taken out several times near the goal line. At the very least, "run stuffer" wasn't something that came out. Seastrunk had abotu 150 yards in the first half, then they took him out.

Anyway, the lowlights.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zTPtgf0s4ew?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[The Jokeman]

I think Mack would probably force opposing teams to gameplan for the pain, he'd make sure anyone running wouldn't just get tackled but planted. Those seeds pay dividends, every time a RBI gets a call to get the ball.

and that's why Mack should be a top 5 pick.

[The Jokeman]

Wow..the Baylor game was brutal. I couldn't watch after the first half. If you didn't hear the hype about him from the week before, you wouldn't have known he was out there. It may or may not be a fair game to judge, but he didn't do himself any favors in that game. He might have gotten near Petty once and was taken out several times near the goal line. At the very least, "run stuffer" wasn't something that came out. Seastrunk had abotu 150 yards in the first half, then they took him out.

Anyway, the lowlights.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zTPtgf0s4ew?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Baylor was one of the best teams in the country last year. Let's not forget in college Mack was the star you bring him here he's got other stars around him like Mario, Kyle, Dareus and Kiko. Offenses won't be able to game plan solely on him. To me Mack is the most dominant LB in the draft because he can rush the passer and play all three downs.

[cookie G]

Baylor was one of the best teams in the country last year. [/qoute]

Fortunately, the offenses in the NFL aren't as good as Baylor.

[QUOTE=The Jokeman;3915160]
Let's not forget in college Mack was the star you bring him here he's got other stars around him like Mario, Kyle, Dareus and Kiko. Offenses won't be able to game plan solely on him. To me Mack is the most dominant LB in the draft because he can rush the passer and play all three downs.

I already qualified my remarks regarding that game and you can't put the blame for 800 yards of offense on him..

But I didn't see him get double teamed very often, if at all, wasn't shedding OL blocks very well and the pressure he was getting on the QB was minimal. They didn't have to game plan around him.

Take it for what its worth. But if you can't beat the blocks of Baylor offensive linemen, I don't know how much of a run stuffer you're going to be in the NFL. You better be able to keep OL off the guy.

[YardRat]

Disagree. I've stood in front of him and I'm 6-4. He's much bigger physically than Kiko. Doesn't fear sticking his helmet in the hole, when attending the UB games.

The Schwartz wide 9 look requires the 2 ILB's to move into holes between the DE & DT . Has to be physical and able to get off blocks. Mack fits the profile, along with guys like Boreland,Skov,Smallwood and a few others that could be starting types beyond the 1st round pick.

Bills need ILB's, no question.

Are they using the wide 9 this season?

There seems to be a difference of opinion between you and cookie regarding his ability to shed blocks.

[Mace]

At the very least, "run stuffer" wasn't something that came out.

Well that was sort of what happened against Bowling Green when they had a shot at the MAC title. Greene ran for 129 yards. It was like watching the Bills defense where teams used to run from behind to catch up in the second half instead of passing. I watched every minute of it because I was thinking to see a "statement" game from him and wanted to.

I really want to see Mack succeed, the guy has the tools and skills. But I just didn't really see him dominating a lot of lesser talent when I was sure he would, Sure thing, monster prospects look like a man playing against boys weekly and in the clutch. For whatever reason, and there could be reasons, Mack just seemed to disappear sometimes.

All of that said, I would be delighted if we took him, and want him to tear the league up as much as anyone. I'm just not real sure why Bills fans seem to see him as the messiah of linebackers just because he's coming out of UB. If he was coming out of another school, all of this stuff would be frown worthy concern.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I've sort of flip flopped on this issue.

Maybe we do just try to build a insane defense that wins despite the QB.

I really don't think EJ is the answer, but that is unproven of course.

Maybe we can win old school with a disgusting defense and serviceable QB with solid running game?

I'm not trying to downplay the importance of QB, which is paramount. But we wouldn't be the first team to be succesfull in this manner and I doubt the last.

[Mace]

I've sort of flip flopped on this issue.

Maybe we do just try to build a insane defense that wins despite the QB.

I really don't think EJ is the answer, but that is unproven of course.

Maybe we can win old school with a disgusting defense and serviceable QB with solid running game?

I'm not trying to downplay the importance of QB, which is paramount. But we wouldn't be the first team to be succesfull in this manner and I doubt the last.

I could live with them stuffing and shattering and running over people while they figure out who the QB will be.

[cookie G]

Well that was sort of what happened against Bowling Green when they had a shot at the MAC title. Greene ran for 129 yards. It was like watching the Bills defense where teams used to run from behind to catch up in the second half instead of passing. I watched every minute of it because I was thinking to see a "statement" game from him and wanted to.

Its also a bit of like the Teo talk from last year. People were pimping him as this unstoppable force/brick wall/run stuffer extraordinaire..until he was introduced to the Bama offensive line and Eddie Lacy.

I know he's Mayock's man love this year, but then...Blaine Gabbert was his man love a few years ago, so I take it with a grain of salt.

And I do preface my statements to say that I've only seen him in the Baylor game...but to ignore how he played in that game is just crazy.



I really want to see Mack succeed, the guy has the tools and skills. But I just didn't really see him dominating a lot of lesser talent when I was sure he would, Sure thing, monster prospects look like a man playing against boys weekly and in the clutch. For whatever reason, and there could be reasons, Mack just seemed to disappear sometimes.

All of that said, I would be delighted if we took him, and want him to tear the league up as much as anyone. I'm just not real sure why Bills fans seem to see him as the messiah of linebackers just because he's coming out of UB. If he was coming out of another school, all of this stuff would be frown worthy concern.

Oh, I hope he succeeds too...love to see a UB alum do great.

On the other hand...I'm really tired about hearing how the D is one or two guys away...

build the offense for a change.

[SpikedLemonade]

build the offense for a change.

Or at least the OL so we have something remaining if this QB and Coaching staff do not work out.

Start thinking long-term.

[The Jokeman]

Its also a bit of like the Teo talk from last year. People were pimping him as this unstoppable force/brick wall/run stuffer extraordinaire..until he was introduced to the Bama offensive line and Eddie Lacy.

I know he's Mayock's man love this year, but then...Blaine Gabbert was his man love a few years ago, so I take it with a grain of salt.

And I do preface my statements to say that I've only seen him in the Baylor game...but to ignore how he played in that game is just crazy.



Oh, I hope he succeeds too...love to see a UB alum do great.

On the other hand...I'm really tired about hearing how the D is one or two guys away...

build the offense for a change.

The problem with building the offense is the thought that we could actually out duel teams like the Patriots and Saints. Instead if we can force teams like those into mistakes and have a good enough O to make the plays to win at the end of the game is what we need to do. It's how we beat teams like the Panthers and Ravens. In fact we could have won the Bengals game last year had Lewis gotten a TD earlier on and we all know about the miscues against the Falcons cost us that game. Yet if our D was better then last one would think our O can be improving with a more experienced EJ and healthy Stevie Johnson. That said I'd still look to improve the O in UFA (like a WR and better TE) and maybe with an O-lineman or two. Yet if we have a chance to take an elite guy like Mack or Mosley it's hard to pass on them over a O skill position player who likely won't be NFL ready enough to really improve our offense. That said to me a rookie OT could make a difference as to me it's a position where talent does factor more then not.

[cookie G]

The problem with building the offense is the thought that we could actually out duel teams like the Patriots and Saints. Instead if we can force teams like those into mistakes and have a good enough O to make the plays to win at the end of the game is what we need to do. It's how we beat teams like the Panthers and Ravens. In fact we could have won the Bengals game last year had Lewis gotten a TD earlier on and we all know about the miscues against the Falcons cost us that game. Yet if our D was better then last one would think our O can be improving with a more experienced EJ and healthy Stevie Johnson. That said I'd still look to improve the O in UFA (like a WR and better TE) and maybe with an O-lineman or two. Yet if we have a chance to take an elite guy like Mack or Mosley it's hard to pass on them over a O skill position player who likely won't be NFL ready enough to really improve our offense. That said to me a rookie OT could make a difference as to me it's a position where talent does factor more then not.

Yeah, well...the problem with that is that is what the organization has been saying for the last 14 years.

Every year, there's this defensive stud who's too good to pass up...the piece that's going to make this a dominant defense.

And that's why this defense has 7 former 1st round picks, including at former no.1 and a former no. 3, as well as 4 2nd round picks...2 of whom were taken at the top of the 2nd.

And I'm still waiting.

And yet, the best guy on the defense has been..and is...a former 5th round pick.

And the problem is...jsut about everyone of those guys was going to be that missing piece...the "too good to pass up" stud.

And the problem is...a guy like Mack is far from a sure fire defensive missing link that's going to shut down another team's running game. When he faced a good offense, he got his ass handed to him...badly.
He could be good...on the other hand..he may be one of those guys that only looks good when he can physically dominate people. He might also be a Vernon Gholston.


And the problem is...the offensive side, especially the QB and OL positions, take a back seat to building this ever elusive dominant defense that's going to shut down Tom Brady.

We're going on year 15 of this reasoning...

[Mouldsie]

Wow..the Baylor game was brutal. I couldn't watch after the first half. If you didn't hear the hype about him from the week before, you wouldn't have known he was out there. It may or may not be a fair game to judge, but he didn't do himself any favors in that game. He might have gotten near Petty once and was taken out several times near the goal line. At the very least, "run stuffer" wasn't something that came out. Seastrunk had abotu 150 yards in the first half, then they took him out.

Anyway, the lowlights.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zTPtgf0s4ew?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Mack played fine that game. There wasn't really anything he could do

[mysticsoto]

Yeah, well...the problem with that is that is what the organization has been saying for the last 14 years.

Every year, there's this defensive stud who's too good to pass up...the piece that's going to make this a dominant defense.

And that's why this defense has 7 former 1st round picks, including at former no.1 and a former no. 3, as well as 4 2nd round picks...2 of whom were taken at the top of the 2nd.

And I'm still waiting.

And yet, the best guy on the defense has been..and is...a former 5th round pick.

And the problem is...jsut about everyone of those guys was going to be that missing piece...the "too good to pass up" stud.

And the problem is...a guy like Mack is far from a sure fire defensive missing link that's going to shut down another team's running game. When he faced a good offense, he got his ass handed to him...badly.
He could be good...on the other hand..he may be one of those guys that only looks good when he can physically dominate people. He might also be a Vernon Gholston.


And the problem is...the offensive side, especially the QB and OL positions, take a back seat to building this ever elusive dominant defense that's going to shut down Tom Brady.

We're going on year 15 of this reasoning...

It could also be argued that every year people here fall in love w/someone and want him drafted far higher than they are worth. I remember 2 yrs ago people wanting to draft the kicker Nugent w/our 1st rounder. Every yr it's somebody...

While I like Ebron, I don't think he's on Vernon's Davis' level - and that's not an attack on him.

[justasportsfan]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zTPtgf0s4ew?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

looks like they were running away from him for the most part.

[stuckincincy]

...And the problem is...the offensive side, especially the QB and OL positions, take a back seat to building this ever elusive dominant defense that's going to shut down Tom Brady.

We're going on year 15 of this reasoning...

There is little reason to professional sports.

It's one of the few private sector endeavors where you can wipe your feet off on your buying public, yet year after year cha-ching the cash register and watch them reliably come back and fork over their cash.

[cookie G]

Mack played fine that game. There wasn't really anything he could do

Uh huh.

[Yasgur's Farm]

It could also be argued that every year people here fall in love w/someone and want him drafted far higher than they are worth. I remember 2 yrs ago people wanting to draft the kicker Nugent w/our 1st rounder. Every yr it's somebody...

While I like Ebron, I don't think he's on Vernon's Davis' level - and that's not an attack on him.LOL... Your thoughts are correct... But Nugent was drafted 9 years ago by the Jets.

[cookie G]

looks like they were running away from him for the most part.

On the goal line, they ran right at him on one drive, and to the hole immediately to his left on another. He was taken out on both plays, pancaked on one. Later, they ran several times at the RT, when he was playing left OLB.

They didn't need to run away from him. They did whatever they wanted.

And I realize that's a cut up "highlight" tape, but if you watched the game live, that's about as fast as they were moving.

In the 1st half, they scored at will. They put up over 50 pts and their average scoring drive took around 50 seconds.

It was brutal.

[cookie G]

It could also be argued that every year people here fall in love w/someone and want him drafted far higher than they are worth. I remember 2 yrs ago people wanting to draft the kicker Nugent w/our 1st rounder. Every yr it's somebody...

While I like Ebron, I don't think he's on Vernon's Davis' level - and that's not an attack on him.

From what I've seen, he's become Mayock's darling, much like Blaine Gabbert was a few years ago. But the one time I heard him talk about Mack, he said, "I've seen 3 games on tape." I think he mentioned O-State and Kent State.

I can guarantee the other wasn't Baylor. But that's kind of like talking up Teo without watching the Alabama tape.

I don't know how he's going to be in the NFL, but I don't see this sure fire badass that some are making him out to be. And its especially true when people are talking about run stuffing abilities. If people are talking about moving Kiko outside, and him inside..well you can't run around blocks as an ILB.

And he's going to face a lot of guards and tackles that are a hell of a lot better than those at Baylor.

[stuckincincy]

On the goal line, they ran right at him on one drive, and to the hole immediately to his left on another. He was taken out on both plays, pancaked on one. Later, they ran several times at the RT, when he was playing left OLB.

They didn't need to run away from him. They did whatever they wanted.

And I realize that's a cut up "highlight" tape, but if you watched the game live, that's about as fast as they were moving.

In the 1st half, they scored at will. They put up over 50 pts and their average scoring drive took around 50 seconds.

It was brutal.

Has there ever been a team like BUF that has had such a weak LB corps for so long?

I'm so - so on Mack. I'd trade out of the #9. If they stay, well, go for him. Roll the dice...it's not like they've not blown their 1st pick before. Mack's getting a lot of positive ink, and I'm not going to be bothered about the nuance of is he an edge rusher only or can he cover and so on.

I firmly wish they trade down. If not, give Mack a chance. Maybe they will be lucky.

[Mace]

And he's going to face a lot of guards and tackles that are a hell of a lot better than those at Baylor.

And backs better than Bowling Green's Greene (redshirt sophomore 129 yards) and San Diego State's Muema (junior 229 yards) in games you'd like to think were a chance to shine better at the end.

Mack seems like a great kid with a chance to be a fine pro, I'd give serious thought to take him at 9, wouldn't make me sad if they did, though I don't think he'll be there. But people seem to be buying into some myth of have-to-have run-stuffing awesomeness.

Alonso had this awesome rookie MLB year in an unfamiliar defense, and people seem upset he wasn't awesomer. Year before, Barnett took a lot of crap for being the only linebacker they had. Mayock, talks players and talent without context, which fans need provide. Awesome WR might be awesome with The Manning throwing to him every 3 downs, but if he has The Tebow targeting him....doesn't mean he's not an awesome WR prospect, he's likely to get something in between.

But even if they get Mack, why mess with the MLB you already found ? No one seems to come up with this run stuffing mlb prototype that other teams don't have. Urlacher is gone, the game evolved.

I'm seeing Borland mentioned more and more in the 2nd for this draft as an mlb, 5'11, 247....thumper, can't run, that's within 10 lbs of Alonso without his offseason of pro weight training. I think you're going to see Alonso at 242-243 this year, he's not going to keep losing weight like Maybin, is smart, and mean and eager and goes at 110%. I get the idea he thrives on responsibility. He's the mlb I want them to keep, watching alignments, taking the calls and making the adjustments. He's only going to get better. Terrible interview, breathes football, bleeds snow and ice, runs on fire.

Won't upset me at all if Mack is there next to him 3 downs a pop, but I can't for the life of me understand why people are so eager to replace the best positional player (relative to peers) we have for a maybe.

Make the defensive line tackle running backs. It's incidental to trying to get to the guy who doesn't have the ball anymore.

[Mouldsie]

Mack is not a MLB.... he shouldnt even be in this thread really

[YardRat]

And backs better than Bowling Green's Greene (redshirt sophomore 129 yards) and San Diego State's Muema (junior 229 yards) in games you'd like to think were a chance to shine better at the end.

Mack seems like a great kid with a chance to be a fine pro, I'd give serious thought to take him at 9, wouldn't make me sad if they did, though I don't think he'll be there. But people seem to be buying into some myth of have-to-have run-stuffing awesomeness.

Alonso had this awesome rookie MLB year in an unfamiliar defense, and people seem upset he wasn't awesomer. Year before, Barnett took a lot of crap for being the only linebacker they had. Mayock, talks players and talent without context, which fans need provide. Awesome WR might be awesome with The Manning throwing to him every 3 downs, but if he has The Tebow targeting him....doesn't mean he's not an awesome WR prospect, he's likely to get something in between.

But even if they get Mack, why mess with the MLB you already found ? No one seems to come up with this run stuffing mlb prototype that other teams don't have. Urlacher is gone, the game evolved.

I'm seeing Borland mentioned more and more in the 2nd for this draft as an mlb, 5'11, 247....thumper, can't run, that's within 10 lbs of Alonso without his offseason of pro weight training. I think you're going to see Alonso at 242-243 this year, he's not going to keep losing weight like Maybin, is smart, and mean and eager and goes at 110%. I get the idea he thrives on responsibility. He's the mlb I want them to keep, watching alignments, taking the calls and making the adjustments. He's only going to get better. Terrible interview, breathes football, bleeds snow and ice, runs on fire.

Won't upset me at all if Mack is there next to him 3 downs a pop, but I can't for the life of me understand why people are so eager to replace the best positional player (relative to peers) we have for a maybe.

Make the defensive line tackle running backs. It's incidental to trying to get to the guy who doesn't have the ball anymore.

Best case scenario would be a vet to man the middle, that's why many are clamoring for Spikes. Not real big on Mack, but if they absolutely have to have him I could live with Mack-Spikes-Alonso in the 3LBer base set, and Mack (outside) Alonso (inside) on obvious passing downs. Alonso is too light in the ass for me, but even if he added weight he's going to have to learn, and be able to, stand up o-linemen in the middle instead of ducking and weaving, and just putting on pounds isn't going to fix that.

[Mouldsie]

Well that was sort of what happened against Bowling Green when they had a shot at the MAC title. Greene ran for 129 yards. It was like watching the Bills defense where teams used to run from behind to catch up in the second half instead of passing. I watched every minute of it because I was thinking to see a "statement" game from him and wanted to.

I really want to see Mack succeed, the guy has the tools and skills. But I just didn't really see him dominating a lot of lesser talent when I was sure he would, Sure thing, monster prospects look like a man playing against boys weekly and in the clutch. For whatever reason, and there could be reasons, Mack just seemed to disappear sometimes.

All of that said, I would be delighted if we took him, and want him to tear the league up as much as anyone. I'm just not real sure why Bills fans seem to see him as the messiah of linebackers just because he's coming out of UB. If he was coming out of another school, all of this stuff would be frown worthy concern.


[QUOTE=The Jokeman;3915160]Baylor was one of the best teams in the country last year. [/qoute]

Fortunately, the offenses in the NFL aren't as good as Baylor.



I already qualified my remarks regarding that game and you can't put the blame for 800 yards of offense on him..

But I didn't see him get double teamed very often, if at all, wasn't shedding OL blocks very well and the pressure he was getting on the QB was minimal. They didn't have to game plan around him.

Take it for what its worth. But if you can't beat the blocks of Baylor offensive linemen, I don't know how much of a run stuffer you're going to be in the NFL. You better be able to keep OL off the guy.
So far, it looks like Khalil Mack should have been the #1 defensive player off the board