Tim Graham - Marrone and Whaley met by stalemate

[DesertFox24]

His new blog about marrone and Whaley wanting to get ride of Pittman overdorf and bud carpenter just sounds stupid to me.

These guys work for Brandon and Whaley and will do what they say. I am sure they tell overdorf look we will not pay more than x for bryd but try to get less or get him down to x. Littman is just an accountant and does not make football decisions.

Now bud carpenter this could be the one thing that I could see as an issue. That being said most of our guys come back from injury fast. The problem is preventive measures to make sure the groin hamstrings and other muscles don't get hurt.

I just think graham is trying to stir something up and make the bills look as much of a joke as the browns for some reason.

He did not include any comments from overdorf littman or carpenter on their job status or what the parameters are so really his source could have been just him making something up.


I do not have a link as I am on iPhone but it USA big thread on bb.com message board and I am sure on the buff news website

[WagonCircler]

And this, boys and girls, is what business people call an "organizational cluster****"

This is what happens when you make the marketing boy CEO.

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/02/23/sources-disconnect-youngsters-lifers-bills-organization/

[Night Train]

People don't get along at a large workplace. Certain people never get fired due to who they know.

Wow, that NEVER happens !

[kishoph]

"The sources say."

[YardRat]

Regardless of how true the reports actually are, I would surmise there is at least some validity to the situation. Hell, I've been wanting to get rid of Littman for years, and there is no way Overdorf should be in the driver's seat over Whaley when it comes to negotiating contracts. Carpenter is kind of a non-issue, and I can a see a little bit of 'But, we want our guy in there...' at play with his position.

Brandon better get his head out of his ass and get the organizational structure straightened out, some view Ralph as the evil emperor on the throne, but Littman and Overdorf have done far more damage over the years. Time for those two to go bye-bye.

[SpikedLemonade]

We will have to live with this until a new owner cleans house.

[coastal]

Overdorf and Littman run this franchise from Detroit for Ralph.

the question becomes... how strong is Brandon and does he really want to change this franchise?

considering that the Byrd negotiations are not being handled by Whaley, I think we have our answer.

i, for one, applaud Graham for writing this.

here in lies the real problem with the Bills.

[coastal]

And btw... look at the end of the article. Fool's Gold is mentioned. There's even a link.

[coastal]

These guys work for Brandon and Whaleyas a facade... sure.

in reality, Brandon works for Littman and Overdorf.

[Meathead]

the bigger question is wtf is wrong with desertfox?

seriously dude, no offense but im assuming you suffered horrific brain damage as a result of a car accident or redneck inbreeding or both but how can you AGAIN post comments about what somebody else said online and NOT post a link? its like groundhog deja vu day all over again with you

brain damage is a hell of an injury and i feel bad for your withered cerebral cortex but for the love of dog cmon

[Turf]

Stew Barber all over again. And everything changed once we got rid of him.

[better days]

Why should anyone believe Tim Graham after that BS article he wrote about Stevie that Marrone had to personally refute?

[jimmifli]

considering that the Byrd negotiations are not being handled by Whaley, I think we have our answer.


That's insane.

[DesertFox24]

the bigger question is wtf is wrong with desertfox?

seriously dude, no offense but im assuming you suffered horrific brain damage as a result of a car accident or redneck inbreeding or both but how can you AGAIN post comments about what somebody else said online and NOT post a link? its like groundhog deja vu day all over again with you

brain damage is a hell of an injury and i feel bad for your withered cerebral cortex but for the love of dog cmon

Meathead I was on my iphone at 2330 PST when I made the post and could not post the link, hence my last statement.

I can understand the desire for a link to be posted, but I provided the location where it could be found. Have we become that lazy of society where if it involes any work we just F it.

As for the brain damage I assure I have a working and healthy brain.

[DesertFox24]

Look I have no problem with Overdorf doing the negoitiating as long as Overdorf is working under the parameters that Whaley and Brandon have imposed on him. For example if they tell him look we will not pay more than X but try to get something that works for both parties and come back if they will not take X.

That being said if Overdorf is determining the value of X with just Littman then I have serious problems.

Whaley and the team have stated all along that good players will probably walk in order to resign what they deem corps players at priority positions. I think we can all agree Bryd is a top 3 safety but is safety more important than shut down corner, Pass rusher, and Interior DL?

[The King]

Same old same old every day
if things don't change you're just gonna rot
Cause if you do what you've always done
you'll always get what you always got
Uh could that be nothin'

-Aerosmith

[coastal]

That's insane.
Fiscal mgmt > product mgmt

[cookie G]

No

Stone

Unturned

[Uncle Jesse]

Well when you don't do a complete overhaul over the organization and truly clean house, I guess it's not going to matter who the coach and GM are when you are letting old ****s from the 80s still dictate everything. Unreal, but totally par for the course. No wonder there is never progress in the organization.

[trapezeus]

Here is the deal with the Bills, in my mind.

The top executives (littman and crew) need to make a certain amount to pay themselves. If they skimp on player contracts and let a byrd go so that we can try and market a new draft pick as the future, they will always be cap compliant, leaving plenty of revenue to share for themselves.

These guys don't care about winning. they care about managing the fan base with fake moment of upwards momentum. they obviously don't like the 14 yr drought, but they've found a way to personally gain by running the model they have. So brandon and littman and overdorf are going no where. they have the keys. and they provide the revenue into ralph and family's pockets. so they don't care.

This is why people who have cache and seen a good organization would never accept the bills job. They'll screw you on what you want to do every step of the way. and this is what marrone and whaley are getting right now.

I agree the carpenter thing is small beans. but the take away from every bills fan is to know that the top leadership of the bills don't care about the same things as you. They are simply running this company to peel pennies off every dollar for themselves. and these are the guys who are going to negotiate the deal when ralph passes. And they know they will never work in the NFL after this gig passes. So they are driven to max out the profit for as long as they can.

It's a real tragedy that this is the way of business, but it won't change until they are gone. and hopefully buffalo will get an owner that wants to keep the team here.

[coastal]

It's sad, but us so-called "realists" have been talking about this for years.

its time for bills fans to demand better.

[Meathead]

so on an iphone you can look up a website, you can post on a message board, but you cant copy and paste a link. wow, who knew. so now we have the dog ate my homework, i was just holding it for a friend, and my iphone cant cut and paste links as the most valid of all excuses

lamesauce. its not only rude to make everybody search for the info you already had in front of you, its also prohibited by intergalatic law. dont come crying to me when sisko and warf show up in the defiant to whisk you off to the dominion labor camp

[DesertFox24]

so on an iphone you can look up a website, you can post on a message board, but you cant copy and paste a link. wow, who knew. so now we have the dog ate my homework, i was just holding it for a friend, and my iphone cant cut and paste links as the most valid of all excuses

lamesauce. its not only rude to make everybody search for the info you already had in front of you, its also prohibited by intergalatic law. dont come crying to me when sisko and warf show up in the defiant to whisk you off to the dominion labor camp

I hope you find happiness one day, I really do.

Until that day comes I will pray for you and others like you, so that you find happiness and balance in your life.

[Meathead]

i spent a career around software and product engineering environments and there was always tension between the technical and bidness sides. engineers always said mgmt didnt want to invest in their brilliance and managers complained about unsustainable business models. both sides were right and both sides were wrong, which in the end shows you that you need both sides bumping heads and working together to make the enterprise work

in the nfl the coaches are the engineers and its no surprise at all they express similar frustrations. if was up to them you would spend to the cap, defer as much money as you can, and do everything to make this current season the best you possibly could. but bidness concerns require you to be responsible long term, which often is in direct conflict with the coaches immediate term objectives

we would need to know much more of the exact disputes to know how much of it was similar normal bidness tension, and how much of it may be a dysfunctional culture. since they will never ever tell us that, theres really zero chance to figure it out from our seats. only measurement we will ever get will be w/l record

- - - Updated - - -


I hope you find happiness one day, I really do.

Until that day comes I will pray for you and others like you, so that you find happiness and balance in your life.

lmao

yeah IM so unreasonable. lololoo

[DesertFox24]

i spent a career around software and product engineering environments and there was always tension between the technical and bidness sides. engineers always said mgmt didnt want to invest in their brilliance and managers complained about unsustainable business models. both sides were right and both sides were wrong, which in the end shows you that you need both sides bumping heads and working together to make the enterprise work

in the nfl the coaches are the engineers and its no surprise at all they express similar frustrations. if was up to them you would spend to the cap, defer as much money as you can, and do everything to make this current season the best you possibly could. but bidness concerns require you to be responsible long term, which often is in direct conflict with the coaches immediate term objectives

we would need to know much more of the exact disputes to know how much of it was similar normal bidness tension, and how much of it may be a dysfunctional culture. since they will never ever tell us that, theres really zero chance to figure it out from our seats. only measurement we will ever get will be w/l record



Your line of thinking is actually where I was last night when I read the article and kind of what I stated in my openning regarding Overdorf doing the negotiations. One aspect people are not taking into account is that fact that overdorf has built relationshipns with most of the agents and knows how they work and what to do with them. This knowledge is not something to throw away just because the fans want someone younger.

Additionaly Whaley and brandon have also said countless times that the bills will not mortgage the future for the present. I know fans hate this concept because we never spend to the cap, but the reason is the bills are trying to save money to ensure guys like Dareus or Gilmore will not leave.

The main problem is that we have not had a front office in place long enough to see if they are in fact telling us the truth about resigning their own at key positions, and we have not drafted well enough to even justifiy it quit frankly.

However, with Spiller, Dareus, Gilmore coming up in consecutive years we will get a good idea if they are true to their word or not. Whaley may not have been the GM when these guys were drafted but he was on the staff that scouted and picked them so these are his guys.

[The King]

Back on topic boys.

[jimmifli]

in the nfl the coaches are the engineers and its no surprise at all they express similar frustrations. if was up to them you would spend to the cap, defer as much money as you can, and do everything to make this current season the best you possibly could. but bidness concerns require you to be responsible long term, which often is in direct conflict with the coaches immediate term objectives

we would need to know much more of the exact disputes to know how much of it was similar normal bidness tension, and how much of it may be a dysfunctional culture. since they will never ever tell us that, theres really zero chance to figure it out from our seats. only measurement we will ever get will be w/l record
I think if you look at the reporting structure you see who has final say and that's important.

If the MBA's get final say you get Microsoft
If the engineers get final say you get Google.

Microsoft is a reliably profitable company. But I've never met a Microsoft fan.

[WagonCircler]

Brandon better get his head out of his ass and get the organizational structure straightened out

And what, from his vast executive experience, do you think the Great Brandon will draw on?

Maybe the time he swung that sweet printing deal to save 10% on billboards and programs by changing printers?

Or that very important tweaking of radio commercials geared and season ticket renewals?

Or maybe the time he answered to phone when a dumb ass Canadian billionaire decided to piss away millions moving some Bills games to Toronto.

The reality is, Russ F c k i n g Brandon is WHOLLY unqualified for the position he now holds, and the Bills will make zero progress as long as he holds it.

[Meathead]

good but probably dated analogy since google is or more likely already has turned into microsoft. but there are remarkable similarities in their stories. both made their jillions on relatively simplistic software that nobody expected to be in massive demand until it was put out there. both started out with all kinds of conscience and then systematically bloated itself into the evil empire it once claimed to despise. both make offensive assumptions about proper limits on exploiting customers. hippies always become suits when big money rolls in. almost always

[Meathead]

Bills coaches want to change training staff

INDIANAPOLIS — Buffalo Bills coaches want to change the organization’s old-school culture, but they seem to be encountering internal resistance.

Key members of the staff have told The News they want to update the training staff by replacing long-time head athletic trainer Bud Carpenter, but the front office is reluctant to support a switch.

(sry but i didnt wear a belt today and have to hold up my pants so i cant provide a link)

(oh hell with it, i say drop trou and if the starbucks ppl dont like it screw em ...)

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/bills-coaches-want-to-change-training-staff-20140223?two-bills-drive

i am pretty alarmed with the focus of this bud carpenter expose

we either have to believe that tim graham just fell into this story or that the coaches are so frustrated that its been leaked semi-intentionally to put pressure on the old guard. both of these would be bad, not only for this kind of internal issue getting leaked but the fact that the coaches dont have confidence in the guy and apparently cant work with whom they want (or dont want) for an important on-field element of the team (injury mgmt)

when it was just nebulous ramblings about the engineers vs the businessmen that was one thing. but to have this key a dispute spill out into the media is embarrassing if not troubling

[jimmifli]

good but probably dated analogy since google is or more likely already has turned into microsoft.
No. There's lots of MBA's at Goog, and they've got lots of power, but they still answer to the engineers.

There's nothing wrong with being a well run, organized, disciplined and profitable company. But there is something wrong when that becomes the purpose. Google's purpose is still to build great products, they achieve that by being a profitable company. The Bills purpose isn't to build a great product, and it hasn't been the purpose for a long time.

[jimmifli]

when it was just nebulous ramblings about the engineers vs the businessmen that was one thing. but to have this key a dispute spill out into the media is embarrassing if not troubling
It wasn't nebulous ramblings. Some of us read the article.

The accountants are running the team and won't let the football guys fire a ****ing trainer.

[better days]

It wasn't nebulous ramblings. Some of us read the article.

The accountants are running the team and won't let the football guys fire a ****ing trainer.

At this point I give Tim Graham no more credibility than Pat Moran.

[YardRat]

I think I despise Littman and Overdorf more than Shuila, Marino, Belicheck and Brady put together.

I have stayed away from dogging Brandon's ass since he was given the keys to the kingdom, but if it's just a puppet show and he really does ultimately have to 'report' to those two than his title and responsibilities are pretty much worthless. And, yes, there are those that would have the right to say 'I told you so...'.

[coastal]

14 years doesn't happen by chance.

it is a quilt of ineptitude that only a poorly structured organization can achieve.

[DynaPaul]

Littman and Overdorf need to be jettisoned like a fetid turd. I see this article as legit and the so called sources are probably Marrone and Whaley themselves. If enough fans get behind this and cry out Ralph might have to toss his tired, puppets and let the young blood truly run this team for the modern era.

[Meathead]

The accountants are running the team and won't let the football guys fire a ****ing trainer.

right now it certainly does give that impression. idk if thats accurate or not but the bills dont want this to linger out there very long

[coastal]

Littman and Overdorf need to be jettisoned like a fetid turd. I see this article as legit and the so called sources are probably Marrone and Whaley themselves. If enough fans get behind this and cry out Ralph might have to toss his tired, puppets and let the young blood truly run this team for the modern era.
Not going to happen.

you're talking about the guys who build the financial budget for Ralph.

[OpIv37]

I was so disappointed when I read this- it basically confirms the worst fears about how this organization is run. And it begs several questions:

1. How could ANYONE make someone a "lifer" in such a poorly performing organization? Bellicheck, Polian- Guys like that can be lifers. No one in this organization has the proven track record to be a "lifer." It's proof that Ralph really does run a good ole' boys network.

2. I have to wonder if any of the previous coaches/GM's could have succeeded had they actually been able to run the show and do what they wanted with personnel. Instead, we have bean-counters making football decisions.

3. I have to wonder how many potentially good coaches or coaches with proven track records turned us down because they knew they'd have no chance here.

4. How can anyone expect Marrone and Whaley to succeed if this is truly the case? It really doesn't matter if they're autistic teenagers straight off the short bus or if they're card-carrying MENSA members with 60 years of football experience between them. The results are going to be the same as long as Ralph's inner circle of incompetence is still pulling the strings.

We need a new owner, and it has to be someone smarter than Pegula, who let Darcy Reiger and Ted Black hang around with the Sabres for WAY too long after he took over.

[The Beef]

This reads like every range or fanzone post prom the Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey hirings. Only it's from an actual member of the media and not a poster.

Honestly being a glass half full guy, this sucks to read. This like finding out Santa Clause isn't real, only as an adult. I could stomach Ralph being overbearing on draft day, it is his team. I can't deal with a couple of asshat morons continuing to influence a team that they have no business being in charge of. All I can think is these guys have cemented their stays by years of brown nosing and signing off on every bad ****ing idea Ralph ever had.

Reading about Overdorf and Littman in a "professional" media outlet flat out sucks. When the **** do you read about a teams CFO and some other butt ****er handling the negotiations and making calls on the GM and Coach's staff? Where else does this happen? The LA Clippers of yester year? The Miami Marlins?

Your GM does the negotiating and your cap guy works out the fine print.

The trainer should be gone, no questions asked. This team has been getting punched in the god damn mouth for 15 years. I'd rather see ****ing Jillian Michaels be the head trainer.

I hope Whaley and Marrone win this power struggle. If not, I'd applaud them if they resigned together after the season. Let your ****ing football people run the football team.

[Oldbillsfan]

I really hope this story isn't true, because it explains a lot. Nobody's job on a team with the NFL's longest playoff drought should be safe....Nobody!

[BillsFever21]

This story proves that the anger from many of us posters are true. When the GM can't even make personnel decisions or negotiate a contract what the hell is he even there for?

Ralph has his puppets that's been there for almost 30 years of nothing but losing. They are there to ensure he keeps making his money. To hell with the performance of the team. And everyone wonders why we're always 10-20+ million under the salary cap.

The money isn't being saved to sign players up for a contract over the next few years. That's what was said a few years ago when it came to Levitre and Byrd. Next it will need to be saved for players like Kiko, Woods and whoever else we draft this year too. It's always been that way and it always will with Ralph and his cronies calling the shots.

Oh sure one or two may be signed when other contracts are coming off the books. They just need to make sure they still have enough unused cap space that season or at least starting the year after. If you save 15 million from expiring contracts and spend 10-15 million of it on signing different players it doesn't mean you are breaking out the bucks. You are just shifting the money around. That's what we've been doing for a decade outside of a couple years during the Donahoe era.

Only in Buffalo could you have guys calling the shots for 3 decades on a team that had one good decade in the middle of all the abysmal losing. They got lucky with Polian and the early 90's team and they have been junk since then. Yet the same losers are still running the show 15+ years later.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Tim Graham hams up his *******ness (it's his shtick, and it works well) but this is some great reporting if true.

I love hope some people stick their head in the sand and blankly say that he has no credibility and write the whole story off.

Like over a decade of awful football wasn't proof enough that something was awry at the top of this organization.

[better days]

Tim Graham hams up his *******ness (it's his shtick, and it works well) but this is some great reporting if true.

I love hope some people stick their head in the sand and blankly say that he has no credibility and write the whole story off.

Like over a decade of awful football wasn't proof enough that something was awry at the top of this organization.

Littman does the contracts for the Bills & has for a LONG time.

EVERYONE knows that. he is an ATTORNEY.

NO GM draws up contracts for any team unless he is also an attorney. There are very few of those in the NFL. Rich McKay is about the only one I can think of.

I love how people believe anything Graham writes with NO PROOF to back it up. It was already proven Tim lied about Stevie.

[justasportsfan]

Its pretty hard to know what the real story is. If we really are bad at trying to sign FA's due to lifers, then who gets the credit for resigning guys like Woods, Freddie, McKelvin ,SJ (yes people wanted him resigned). Who gets credit for signing Mario to franchise record deal?

[better days]

Its pretty hard to know what the real story is. If we really are bad at trying to sign FA's due to lifers, then who gets the credit for resigning guys like Woods, Freddie, McKelvin ,SJ (yes people wanted him resigned). Who gets credit for signing Mario to franchise record deal?

Well, it is pretty easy to see Tim Graham lied about Stevie.

Why would anyone believe someone who has been known to lie?

[Dr. Who]

Honestly, I don't particularly trust Graham, but I think OBD needs to explicitly address the issue. Otherwise, I'm inclined to think Graham is correct here.

[justasportsfan]

Well, it is pretty easy to see Tim Graham lied about Stevie.

Why would anyone believe someone who has been known to lie?

Would Marrone or even Whaley have taken the job if they knew that the lifers would get in their way ? Whaley himself said in the interview recently that Russ gave them the full autonomy to hire whoever they wanted for DC when they hired Schwatrz. Whaley wouldn't say full autonomy if there was a salary restriction .

[SpikedLemonade]

Whaley wouldn't say full autonomy if there was a salary restriction .

That is an assumption you are making.

Just like many here assume that the Bills have the full salary cap to spend when it is pretty clear that through annual roll overs, choices about how to spread dead money, letting their own players go to FA, etc., the Bills are operating under an internal salary cap of $20M below the real cap.

Ralph may have given Russ full autonomy but it was only on the premise a certain profit level would be maintained for the Wilson family even if that means cutting costs (player salaries).

[justasportsfan]

That is an assumption you are making.

Just like many here assume that the Bills have the full salary cap to spend when it is pretty clear that through annual roll overs, choices about how to spread dead money, letting their own players go to FA, etc., the Bills are operating under an internal salary cap of $20M below the real cap.



Yes I am making an assumption based on what Whaley stated and not Tim Graham. Schwartz however is not a Pettine hire or a Van Pelt move during Jaurons time. Schwartz most likely cost more.


Ralph may have given Russ full autonomy but it was only on the premise a certain profit level would be maintained for the Wilson family even if that means cutting costs (player salaries). See, now you're making your own assumptions too. :D

[coastal]

Littman does the contracts for the Bills & has for a LONG time.

EVERYONE knows that. he is an ATTORNEY.

NO GM draws up contracts for any team unless he is also an attorney. There are very few of those in the NFL. Rich McKay is about the only one I can think of.

I love how people believe anything Graham writes with NO PROOF to back it up. It was already proven Tim lied about Stevie.
You're a troll.

[Meathead]

Honestly, I don't particularly trust Graham, but I think OBD needs to explicitly address the issue. Otherwise, I'm inclined to think Graham is correct here.

im pretty surprised something hasnt come out of obd yet regarding this carpenter flap. doesnt seem like something you want hanging out there. they really need to address it soon imo. if its not true, fine just say that. if it is true then its a legit cause for concern. not saying anything about the report makes it feel like it might be true and they are either trying to figure out how to address it or they are avoiding it

[BillsFever21]

Littman does the contracts for the Bills & has for a LONG time.

EVERYONE knows that. he is an ATTORNEY.

NO GM draws up contracts for any team unless he is also an attorney. There are very few of those in the NFL. Rich McKay is about the only one I can think of.

I love how people believe anything Graham writes with NO PROOF to back it up. It was already proven Tim lied about Stevie.

There's a difference from writing up the contract and negotiating the money involved or which players will get signed. The GM usually determines the players he wants and comes to an agreement on the money, etc. It's the attorney's and cap management people that write up the contracts.

That's only natural with any business. When a CEO buys out another company he decides what he will pay and not the attorney. The attorney is there to write the language. From the sounds of it that's not entirely the case though.

[better days]

There's a difference from writing up the contract and negotiating the money involved or which players will get signed. The GM usually determines the players he wants and comes to an agreement on the money, etc. It's the attorney's and cap management people that write up the contracts.

That's only natural with any business. When a CEO buys out another company he decides what he will pay and not the attorney. The attorney is there to write the language. From the sounds of it that's not entirely the case though.

Well, how does it sound like that is not the case here?

It has been reported the Bills paid their Coaches including the Coordinators much more than they have in the past.

Do you think Littman all the sudden opened the purse strings on his own?

[BillsFever21]

Well, how does it sound like that is not the case here?

It has been reported the Bills paid their Coaches including the Coordinators much more than they have in the past.

Do you think Littman all the sudden opened the purse strings on his own?

It said that Whaley and Marrone were upset about not having more control over personnel and contract decisions. That would mean to me and most other people that they don't have very much control when it comes to signing/keeping the guys they want.

[better days]

It said that Whaley and Marrone were upset about not having more control over personnel and contract decisions. That would mean to me and most other people that they don't have very much control when it comes to signing/keeping the guys they want.

Well, that is if Graham can be believed.

Graham also said the Bills wanted to get rid of Stevie.

Marrone came out & said publicly that Graham fabricated that story.

I think this is just more fabrication by Tim Graham.

[BillsFever21]

Well, that is if Graham can be believed.

Graham also said the Bills wanted to get rid of Stevie.

Marrone came out & said publicly that Graham fabricated that story.

I think this is just more fabrication by Tim Graham.

There could be a little bit of truth behind both of them. I don't see Whaley or Marrone running to the podium to denounce this report though.

[YardRat]

If anybody has actually seen a player's contract, they would know that it really isn't as complicated as it sounds it should be. 99% of the terms and conditions are covered by the CBA, and the actual contract is pretty simple...just fill in a few blanks.

[better days]

There could be a little bit of truth behind both of them. I don't see Whaley or Marrone running to the podium to denounce this report though.

Well, Marrone said there was NO truth to the Bills wanted to get rid of Stevie.

That leads me to believe there is also no truth to this.

Exactly who would be telling this to Tim?

Marrone, who just disputed what Graham said about Stevie? DOUBTFUL.

Whaley? Again DOUBTFUL.

Schwartz? He just got here, DOUBTFUL.

Hackett? Again DOUBTFUL.

IMO, Graham has no friends or inside sources on the Bills feeding him any of this.

The only possibility if it is anyone would be Pettine to take some of the stench off the Cleveland situation & shift the stench to Buffalo.

[GingerP]

Well, Marrone said there was NO truth to the Bills wanted to get rid of Stevie.

Chris Brown said the coaching staff didn't think they “could effectively get in his head” and that it would be hard to reel Johnson into what the team is trying to do. If the company shill himself is forthcoming about the coaching staff being unhappy with Johnson and feeling he didn't get with the program, there is something there.

Marrone came out and threw verbal bouquets at Johnson as damage control when reports came out the coaching staff wasn't happy with him. Johnson would be over $8.475M in dead money if the Bills cut him, that is why they are keeping him.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Here's another take... And a very good 1 IMO... http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/sports/buffalo-bills-front-office-house-of-cards/

House of Cards: Peeling Back The Curtains of the Buffalo Bills Organizationhttp://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bills-604x270.jpg
http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1488993_10101443258141068_1285548036_n-150x150.jpgby Kevin Massare
Feb 25 2014
(http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/author/kevin-massare/)
<!-- end-header --> <input class="jpibfi" type="hidden">Yesterday, Tim Graham of The Buffalo News published an article outlining reports of disarray and tension among significant figures in the Buffalo Bills’ front office – between the “new guys,” General Manager Doug Whaley and Head Coach Doug Marrone and the “lifers”- Jim Overdorf, Jeffery Littman, Russ Brandon and Scott Berchtold.
There has been a lot of focus in the past 24 hours around the disarray of the Buffalo Bills organization and front office. Well as any good Frank Underwood quote (http://youtu.be/PnlafTs7nos)may tell you, whoever leaked their information to Tim Graham (http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/02/23/sources-disconnect-youngsters-lifers-bills-organization/) was posturing through the media. Sounds very familiar to the recent hit TV series “House Of Cards”, which has swept through the Netflix nation (as it should). This was a move by someone (Doug Marrone, Doug Whaley, or Russ Brandon) to make their position very clear. The new regime is here and they are not playing around.
http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/frank-house-of-cards-1-300x225.jpg
To clear something up here, if Doug Marrone or Doug Whaley didn’t know that Jeffrey Littmann is Ralph’s second hand man, and had financial oversight, then they were more confused than I could have ever imagined. Littmann has enough power to do what he wants, but has plenty of work on his plate with Ralph Wilson’s other business ventures. The family, who is from Grosse Pointe, Michigan, is nothing but super supportive of Buffalo, and even more supportive of the Bills being successful in Buffalo.
Having spent some time with certain members of the family, I am convinced that they are not the problem. Jeff has spent endless hours trying to put the Bills in financial position to succeed, and has done wonders in this community. Let’s put any negativity around him to sleep. He is very loyal to Ralph Wilson, and I have been personally been told that he will step down when Ralph is no longer the owner. This will be a sad day for Bills fans, trust me. Did counterpart Terry Pegula blindly opening his wallet help his franchise out? No, and he made it worse than the current state of the Bills. So don’t be so quick to blame a guy who you really don’t know much about.
http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/6a00d83451b85a69e2017ee6dd92fd970d-550wi-300x200.jpg
Ralph has given full control over to Russ Brandon, who appointed the right football mind (Whaley) and right football coach (Marrone) in charge. Now, if any information was leaked to the media, I feel like it has to be Jairus Byrd-related. Whaley is posturing through the media in order to get Jim Overdorf (SVP and contract specialist) to give in. The Bills do not want to be known as a team who lets their talent go. Takeo Spikes was on record the past week saying that Buffalo has a history of letting go of players within their culture.
Based on my research, Overdorf takes a calculated approach to his negotiations, with Ralph Wilson’s pocket book and bottom line in mind. Does Ralph still micromanage his employees to this extent anymore? I think not. Did someone tell Marrone he couldn’t fire Bud Carpenter? Probably. Maybe it was because it would have been a rash decision to a few fluke injuries? The Bills were relatively healthy, but Marrone was embarrassed because Manuel couldn’t suit up in Week 17. In the grand scheme of things, that doesn’t deserve to get a tenured trainer of 30 years to be fired. That looks just as bad as anything. However, we need more details on this before we can bash the higher-ups. Remember Marrone has HIS OWN strength and conditioning personnel. Marrone’s argument was over his recovery techniques, not his injury prevention. People comparing how many players have been hurt, are making up an argument. Also, have you analyzed other teams injuries and rehab over the last 30 years? I don’t think so. The steelers once one a Superbowl with 4 backups on their offensive line. Jonathan “blindside” Scott started. Is Marrone just wanting change because he wants change? Or is there merit behind his thoughts? It is just food for thought and I am in no way a Carpenter homer.
So what in the world is going on over at One Bills Drive? It is very simple. The new front office wants to be remembered for being the minds who changed the culture within an organization. However, there are a few policies still in place to slow down the process. So the new management does what any good politician would do. Go to the media and put the pressure on the organization in which they work for (DING- Frank Underwood).
Remember, the Buffalo Bills are a business first and foremost. Does any of this sounds eerily familiar to what goes on at your office or place of employment? Probably, because it exists on some level everywhere. How about teachers? They have old policies and rules still in place that frustrate the new breed of employees. However, there are new policies that make teachers use a new common core values when making lesson plans while implementing their new “smart boards”.
This benefits the new breed of teachers. As in any field, organizational change can take time, it doesn’t happen in one full year. The Bills have made STRIDES within their structure to adapt to change, and this is an organization who has been very hesitant to make change in the first place.
Sit back and enjoy the ride. The team is in its best shape it has been in since Levy left as HC. Let us just hope that the Byrd situation is handled with business and heart in mind. You don’t let your talent leave, ever. If you don’t want to be here and don’t want to accept an offer (which I am sure will be a lot more fair this time around), it is time for our new organization to flex its muscle and receive compensation needed to move on from an all-pro safety. Much like we did with LT Jason Peters.
When it is all said and done, it was a strong move by the front office to get involved in posturing.
Posturing: behave in a way that is intended to impress or mislead others.

[better days]

Chris Brown said the coaching staff didn't think they “could effectively get in his head” and that it would be hard to reel Johnson into what the team is trying to do. If the company shill himself is forthcoming about the coaching staff being unhappy with Johnson and feeling he didn't get with the program, there is something there.

Marrone came out and threw verbal bouquets at Johnson as damage control when reports came out the coaching staff wasn't happy with him. Johnson would be over $8.475M in dead money if the Bills cut him, that is why they are keeping him.

Only dead money if they cut him.

He has a reasonable contract & if the Bills wanted to get rid of him they could trade him with no dead money.

[GingerP]

Only dead money if they cut him.

He has a reasonable contract & if the Bills wanted to get rid of him they could trade him with no dead money.

If you trade a player, the remaining un-amortized signing bonus accelerates and hits the cap in the same way it does when you cut a player. You can't circumvent the cap, the monies paid have to be counted. The team trading for the player would inherit the remainder of his contract, but the team trading him is responsible for the money he has already been paid, so it hits the cap.

[better days]

If you trade a player, the remaining un-amortized signing bonus accelerates and hits the cap in the same way it does when you cut a player. You can't circumvent the cap, the monies paid have to be counted. The team trading for the player would inherit the remainder of his contract, but the team trading him is responsible for the money he has already been paid, so it hits the cap.

OK, it's not like the Bills could not afford to take that hit if they REALLY wanted to get rid of Stevie.

[YardRat]

Here's another take... And a very good 1 IMO... http://forgedinbuffalo.com/media/sports/buffalo-bills-front-office-house-of-cards/

Did I read that wrong, or did he lump Brandon in with both the lifers and the new regime?

[Yasgur's Farm]

Did I read that wrong, or did he lump Brandon in with both the lifers and the new regime?He made that a possibility... Thanks for reading.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Tim Graham has turned into an ******* just like Gleason and Sullivan who has always been an *******! must be something in the water at the Buffalo snooze :roflmao:

[trapezeus]

im pretty surprised something hasnt come out of obd yet regarding this carpenter flap. doesnt seem like something you want hanging out there. they really need to address it soon imo. if its not true, fine just say that. if it is true then its a legit cause for concern. not saying anything about the report makes it feel like it might be true and they are either trying to figure out how to address it or they are avoiding it

a normal organization would try and stop the bleeding. but the bills don't and they won't. its the entire executive clan being called out. they just have to deny it, then start a story about how viability in buffalo is difficult, that we are on the right track and then the first 4 games get sold out and they are happy.

[justasportsfan]

a normal organization would try and stop the bleeding. but the bills don't and they won't. its the entire executive clan being called out. they just have to deny it, then start a story about how viability in buffalo is difficult, that we are on the right track and then the first 4 games get sold out and they are happy.

how do you know if they are not stopping the bleeding? If they are or aren't you don't do it publicly.

[Dr. Who]

A very strong offer to Byrd would quiet all this up.

[Historian]

I for one, believe it.

I met Overdorf once at Bills Blue Coat function. (It was right after TD was hired)

Overdorf seemed to me to be the consumate yes man, just by listening to him talk.

I will remember that night as long as I live: Overdorf, Berchtold, Munson, and Brandon....all at the bar kissing Wilson's Granddaughter's ass. It was pathetic.

Most of us old-timers already knew about the Littman problems, in fact, I think part of the Polian issues go back to the two feuding over whether or not to pay a player or two.

None of this is going to change until a new owner is crowned.

[Meathead]

i dont think it was more than twenty four hours after that stevie story came out that marrone announced it wasnt coming from him. its been what three days and so far not a peep out of anybody. not a good sign

[stuckincincy]

i dont think it was more than twenty four hours after that stevie story came out that marrone announced it wasnt coming from him. its been what three days and so far not a peep out of anybody. not a good sign

I say Stevie gets traded to CIN for Ryan Whalan plus contract payout.

CIN is missing their Johnsons. They uses to have as many of them as BUF has Williams.

[cookie G]

I for one, believe it.

I met Overdorf once at Bills Blue Coat function. (It was right after TD was hired)

Overdorf seemed to me to be the consumate yes man, just by listening to him talk.

I will remember that night as long as I live: Overdorf, Berchtold, Munson, and Brandon....all at the bar kissing Wilson's Granddaughter's ass. It was pathetic.

Most of us old-timers already knew about the Littman problems, in fact, I think part of the Polian issues go back to the two feuding over whether or not to pay a player or two.

None of this is going to change until a new owner is crowned.

That's why I don't know why anyone should be shocked by this article.

Nor do I know why anyone thinks this will cause some big "shake up" at OBD.

As you pointed out, Littman was a, if not the reason for Polian's departure...

Buffaloed Bill

SI's Peter King reports on Buffalo Bill owner Ralph Wilson Jr. 's firing of Bill Polian, the team's general manager, four days after the Super Bowl.

Sure, the Bills haven't won the Big One, but until Polian became G.M. in 1986, they were an NFL doormat. Polian helped make Buffalo a powerhouse. The issue, though, isn't whether he should have been canned—that's the owner's prerogative—but the classless way Wilson went about it. Immediately after the Super Bowl, Wilson said, "No heads will roll. This is no time to panic, for people to jump off the 15th floor." Then, despite an appeal from coach Marv Levy to spare Polian, Wilson did the deed. He told Polian over the phone, not face to face. Worse, he had Polian announce the firing himself at a Buffalo news conference.

Team insiders say that Polian's sin was that he often clashed with Wilson's chief finance man, Jeff Littmann, who considered contracts given to such Polian favorites as safety Mark Kelso overly generous. To the end Polian exhibited loyalty to Wilson, praising him even after he was axed in favor of player personnel director John Butler. Loyalty. Wilson ought to look up the word in the dictionary.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1137433/2/index.htm

In one corner...

-a 2 time (at the time) NFL Executive of the Year;
-a man considered by most the best GM in the business;
-by far the best GM in Bills' history;
-a man proclaimed "GM for life" by Ralph Wilson just 2 years prior;
-a man who built a team from a 2-14 doormat to 6 straight playoff appearances and 3 straight SB appearances;

In the other corner...

-a nondescript bean counter who controls the money at OBD...or, as Better Days says, "writes the contracts because he's an attorney";
-a man who thought having the 7th highest payroll in the NFL was too high for a team that had just been to 3 straight Superbowls;

If you're a betting man, who would you expect to win in this clash?

Well, as it turns out..the beancounter won and not even the saintly Marv Levy could change the outcome.

Anyone who really expects a rookie head coach and a rookie GM to win where Polian failed needs a reality check.

Russ does a nice job as a front man, spewing off things like "culture change" and "leaving no stone unturned" and other nebulous statements..but leaving $20 million in cap space unspent kind of says how the show is continuing to be run.

You and Spiked are right. The culture change comes in when new ownership comes.