Something to consider about Whaley

[DesertFox24]

When Whaley was with the steelers the steelers were very well known for not paying certain positions and letting guys walk all the time. They would always hedge their bet by drafting potential replacements the year before a guy left.

Well last year we drafted duke Williams and Jon Meeks. Now based on reports it looks like the bills tried to keep him and offered a good deal but that bryd is probably going to walk.

Hopefully it works out for us long term and we can lock up Glenn Gilmore Dareus and spiller

[YardRat]

I hope so too.

[Meathead]

they already have their next starter in searcy. the other guys they drafted were for depth behind him and williams. i hope they find a way to keep byrd or at least get something in a trade but if they have to let him walk i dont think the defense is really going to even notice

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The steelers have been in cap jail for quite a long time now. They hav not signed any significant FA since James Harrison. However, they were able to keep FA they want though.

I expect the Whaley to do the same thing as the new motta in OBD since Nix has been "keep your own guys." Now Steelers has the (winning) tradition and national exposure the Bills don't. So it may take the Bills awhile to get there, which means they could lose a few, like Byrd.

Regardless what some have been saying and whether overpaid or not, I still view the signing of Mario a positive sign for the Bills. You gotta start from somewhere and he is still the best player the Bills have right now. Teams gameplan for Mario more than they gameplan for Byrd (if at all).

[Uncle Jesse]

I love drafting really good players and letting them walk for nothing each year, this is a fantastic trend by this great franchise.

[Night Train]

When Whaley was with the steelers the steelers were very well known for not paying certain positions and letting guys walk all the time. They would always hedge their bet by drafting potential replacements the year before a guy left.

Well last year we drafted duke Williams and Jon Meeks. Now based on reports it looks like the bills tried to keep him and offered a good deal but that bryd is probably going to walk.

Hopefully it works out for us long term and we can lock up Glenn Gilmore Dareus and spiller

Spot on and that's been mentioned before. Steelers,Pats and many other teams that maintain winning traditions do this. Bills need work to reach that winning level and stay there.

Byrd just wants to leave now..that's obvious. Obviously, Parker told im there's a higher (dumb $$) market awaiting him. In the meantime, get Aaron Williams done this year.

[jdaltroy5]

Who exactly are you talking about?

Go back to the 1998 draft.

Alan Faneca - played for Pitt for 10 years
Joey Porter - played for Pitt for 8 years
Hines Ward - played for Pitt for 14 years
Casey Hampton - played for Pitt for 12 years
Troy Polamalu - played for Pitt for 11 years
Ben Roethlisberger - played for Pitt for 10 years
Heath Miller - played for Pitt for 9 years
Maurkice Pouncey - still on rookie contract
Antonio Brown - played for Pitt for 4 years

They have re-signed EVERY SINGLE player that has made multiple pro bowls since 1998.

[coastal]

No stone...

[DesertFox24]

Look lets just talk real talk here.

If a team signed a safety to a deal making 10 mil a year we would all say wow that is expensive for a safety.

I love Bryd and was glad he was on our team but in no way shape or form did he shut down a player or anything. He was great a defending the deep half of the field and was very instinctive, but teams did not have to game plan him.

No this is not me trying to justify the bills in any way shape or form, but at some point you just have to say ok time to move on we just cannot justify that salary at your position.

Additionally the only really nice thing about signing Bryd to that contract would have been keeping one of our own, but if signing Bryd prevented us from signing two others of our guys that a solid players would it have been worth it. I honestly cannot answer that question.

You guys want to be smart a$$es and say the leave no stone unturned thing but if they contract they offered is true that is not a bad deal. Granted we do not know the final half of that deal but there are parameters in terms of average annual salaray. For example a player cannot make 10 mil year 1 and then 4 mil year 2, there is a percentage increase or decrease for salary change.

[jdaltroy5]

Look lets just talk real talk here.

If a team signed a safety to a deal making 10 mil a year we would all say wow that is expensive for a safety.

I love Bryd and was glad he was on our team but in no way shape or form did he shut down a player or anything. He was great a defending the deep half of the field and was very instinctive, but teams did not have to game plan him.

No this is not me trying to justify the bills in any way shape or form, but at some point you just have to say ok time to move on we just cannot justify that salary at your position.

Additionally the only really nice thing about signing Bryd to that contract would have been keeping one of our own, but if signing Bryd prevented us from signing two others of our guys that a solid players would it have been worth it. I honestly cannot answer that question.

You guys want to be smart a$$es and say the leave no stone unturned thing but if they contract they offered is true that is not a bad deal. Granted we do not know the final half of that deal but there are parameters in terms of average annual salaray. For example a player cannot make 10 mil year 1 and then 4 mil year 2, there is a percentage increase or decrease for salary change.It's the typical Bills way to negotiate with an elite player though.

Offer him a substandard deal and piss him off for about a year.

When he's good and mad and just wants to leave, THEN (and only then) offer him a big money deal.

That way, you can let it leak that you offered him a bajillion dollars, but they just wanted to leave for whatever reason.

And I guarantee that signing Byrd wouldn't have prevented us from signing other players. They already have over 25 mil in cap space before making any cuts. They could save another 7 mil on top of that by releasing Kolb, Pears, and Legursky.

[Fletch]

When Whaley was with the steelers the steelers were very well known for not paying certain positions and letting guys walk all the time. They would always hedge their bet by drafting potential replacements the year before a guy left.

Well last year we drafted duke Williams and Jon Meeks. Now based on reports it looks like the bills tried to keep him and offered a good deal but that bryd is probably going to walk.

Hopefully it works out for us long term and we can lock up Glenn Gilmore Dareus and spiller

Screw Spiller. Most overrated player on the team. Dareus will need to become far more consistent as well. Glenn and Gilmore are both solid, but neither improved to the extent that he should have in their second seasons. We'll see, but it's not like any of those players should be regarded as the future of the team.

IMO best to worst, Gilmore, Glenn, Dareus, Spiller, the latter of which is pure role player. For someone that's touted as a "home-run" player capable of taking it to the house on any given play, he sure has precious few TDs and even fewer "house long" TDs. He's not versatile enough to be a 3-down RB and he has 1 TD for every 43 touches and only about a half-dozen or so long TDs either rushing or receiving making his "house long" TDs fewer than one every 100 touches easily.

Meanwhile, w/ Byrd now gone, the '09 Draft is awash after Wood.

The '10 Draft is a bust after Spiller and it's highly questionable whether he was worth the 9th overall then, at best.

The '11 Draft is all but awash after Dareus in that Williams' season was a smoke-n-mirrors season too predicated all but entirely on the system. Even so, Dareus and Williams from that Draft.

Gilmore and Glenn are also looking like the only average-plus residuals from the '12 Draft as well.

Alonso and Woods are the big prizes from last year's Draft, but the selection of Manuel threatens to mitigate that as well given that we still have no proven QB.

Meanwhile the team continues its one-step-forward-one-step-backwards approach by letting their most prolific defensive player walk. I'd cut Mario before I'd let Byrd go.

How long before people start realizing that Whaley is just the next in the string.

[Fletch]

The steelers have been in cap jail for quite a long time now. They hav not signed any significant FA since James Harrison. However, they were able to keep FA they want though.

I expect the Whaley to do the same thing as the new motta in OBD since Nix has been "keep your own guys." Now Steelers has the (winning) tradition and national exposure the Bills don't. So it may take the Bills awhile to get there, which means they could lose a few, like Byrd.

Regardless what some have been saying and whether overpaid or not, I still view the signing of Mario a positive sign for the Bills. You gotta start from somewhere and he is still the best player the Bills have right now. Teams gameplan for Mario more than they gameplan for Byrd (if at all).

Have to completely disagree w/ you. Mario is a one-dimensional player. He's well below average vs. the run as this season's rushing D should attest to. Granted, some of that was due to the overemphasis on the pass-pressure D, but still, Mario's never been a good run defender, here or in Houston. He's ridiculously overpaid, I mean who honestly believes that he deserves to be the highest paid defensive player in the entire league? He's not even top-20 in my estimation due to his one-trick-pony role-playing status.

Byrd isn't the end-all-to-be-all of players either, but with the exception of perhaps Kyle Williams, who quietly turns 31 prior to this season, and possibly Alonso down the road, he's the best that we have on D. Not sure he's worth monster money, but if you're paying Mario what he's getting, Bryd's certainly worth what he's asking.

I don't see anything different from Whaley than what we've had. Also, he's been here for four seasons, I love how everyone that likes him disassociates all the negative moves from him but associates all of the positive moves with him. Can't have it both ways.

We'll see, but presently the team (Marrone & Whaley) are going to sink or swim with Manuel, and sink that will be. Manuel's another Bledsoe at best. That much should be painfully obvious for anyone that thoroughly reviewed his time at FSU and then witnessed his rookie season which was right in line with all the negatives mentioned about him in the Draft.

- - - Updated - - -


I love drafting really good players and letting them walk for nothing each year, this is a fantastic trend by this great franchise.

And then they promise more players from the Draft, but guys like Alonso or Gilmore will end up leaving too if the trend continues.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

When Whaley was with the steelers the steelers were very well known for not paying certain positions and letting guys walk all the time. They would always hedge their bet by drafting potential replacements the year before a guy left.

Well last year we drafted duke Williams and Jon Meeks. Now based on reports it looks like the bills tried to keep him and offered a good deal but that bryd is probably going to walk.

Hopefully it works out for us long term and we can lock up Glenn Gilmore Dareus and spiller

As noted, Pittsburgh has a tough cap situation because they are trying to retain the core of a two time super bowl champion. They let talent like Wallace leave because they have too much talent to pay them all. We let guys walk and then sit on unused cap space because...

fill in your own answer there.

[Fletch]

Byrd just wants to leave now..that's obvious. Obviously, Parker told im there's a higher (dumb $$) market awaiting him. In the meantime, get Aaron Williams done this year.

Let me ask you a question, and give me an honest answer and separate yourself from your fanhood of the Bills when you do.

Say that you're Byrd, what would you do?

I think I'd take my chances in FAcy and try to land with a winning team, even if it means a few million less. Cash only goes so far, most, although seemingly not all, players want to win.
I'm surprised that some of our past free-agents have stayed after talking about wanting to win. Why would any player wanting to win stay in Buffalo?

Again, I realize that many will jump all over that, but seriously, no playoffs in 14 seasons, no playoff wins in 18 seasons, absolutely no serious indication that that trend is on the reverse.
I hate to say it, but I actually respect players for wanting to play for a winner and what can we say when they decide to leave, the precious few that have actually left for that reason, in hopes of winning somewhere.

I have little respect for players settling for losing just because they got paid more. It says quite a bit, but it says the most about an organization whose biggest payouts are the biggest flops, or at least hardly the best bang for their cap buck.

[Fletch]

Who exactly are you talking about?

Go back to the 1998 draft.

Alan Faneca - played for Pitt for 10 years
Joey Porter - played for Pitt for 8 years
Hines Ward - played for Pitt for 14 years
Casey Hampton - played for Pitt for 12 years
Troy Polamalu - played for Pitt for 11 years
Ben Roethlisberger - played for Pitt for 10 years
Heath Miller - played for Pitt for 9 years
Maurkice Pouncey - still on rookie contract
Antonio Brown - played for Pitt for 4 years

They have re-signed EVERY SINGLE player that has made multiple pro bowls since 1998.

You beat me to that, good post! They've let a bunch of players go after they've left their primes too, which was good.

Anyone seeing a comp between the Bills and Steelers of the last decade is dreaming.

Also, as I pointed out, everyone talks as if Asst. GM Whaley just sat around with his thumb up his a$$ prior to gaining the position he now has. Somehow I find that to be ridiculously absurd making him part & parcel of the current issues.

[stuckincincy]

As noted, Pittsburgh has a tough cap situation because they are trying to retain the core of a two time super bowl champion. They let talent like Wallace leave because they have too much talent to pay them all. We let guys walk and then sit on unused cap space because...

fill in your own answer there.

I read that MIA may try to deal Wallace. Also, last year's #1 Dion Jordan, and DE Cam Wake:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24460690/miami-dolphins-shopping-2013-first-round-pick-dion-jordan

[Fletch]

Look lets just talk real talk here.

If a team signed a safety to a deal making 10 mil a year we would all say wow that is expensive for a safety.

I love Bryd and was glad he was on our team but in no way shape or form did he shut down a player or anything. He was great a defending the deep half of the field and was very instinctive, but teams did not have to game plan him.

No this is not me trying to justify the bills in any way shape or form, but at some point you just have to say ok time to move on we just cannot justify that salary at your position.

Additionally the only really nice thing about signing Bryd to that contract would have been keeping one of our own, but if signing Bryd prevented us from signing two others of our guys that a solid players would it have been worth it. I honestly cannot answer that question.

You guys want to be smart a$$es and say the leave no stone unturned thing but if they contract they offered is true that is not a bad deal. Granted we do not know the final half of that deal but there are parameters in terms of average annual salaray. For example a player cannot make 10 mil year 1 and then 4 mil year 2, there is a percentage increase or decrease for salary change.

Good post, but here's the problem with this team, they pay guys like Mario twice what they actually deserve. Forget the fact that some other team may have given him close to as much.

Then they let better talent at a position walk because they don't want to pay something less.

NFL FO management is an exercise in getting as much as you can from the dollars that you expend, real or cap, both have to be considered.

Some teams are really good at that, the Bills are not. In fact they are terrible at it. They overpay for talent like Dockery, Mario, Fitzpatrick, then let players like Byrd, who's done more than any of them walk while making excuses.

There is a price to pay for such upside-down management and unfortunately we've been realizing it for years. The solution? ... new ownership and a house-cleaning in the FO.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I read that MIA may try to deal Wallace. Also, last year's #1 Dion Jordan, and DE Cam Wake:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24460690/miami-dolphins-shopping-2013-first-round-pick-dion-jordan

Yeah the new regime is not taking kindly to Ireland's leftovers.

[EDS]

When Whaley was with the steelers the steelers were very well known for not paying certain positions and letting guys walk all the time. They would always hedge their bet by drafting potential replacements the year before a guy left.

Well last year we drafted duke Williams and Jon Meeks. Now based on reports it looks like the bills tried to keep him and offered a good deal but that bryd is probably going to walk.

Hopefully it works out for us long term and we can lock up Glenn Gilmore Dareus and spiller

The Steelers did this because they were a perennial play-off team that was handcuffed by the salary cap. They also have a complex defensive system that they prefer to have guys learn for a few years, particularly at LB.

Bills have not been to the playoffs in decades and have tons of cap room. Big difference.

[Fletch]

The Steelers did this because they were a perennial play-off team that was handcuffed by the salary cap. They also have a complex defensive system that they prefer to have guys learn for a few years, particularly at LB.

Bills have not been to the playoffs in decades and have tons of cap room. Big difference.

It is a big difference, as is chemistry gained from years of key players playing together, something else that our in-over-their-heads FO and staff can't seem to get their quicksand filled heads around. Again, hardly a difficult concept, yet ...

[DesertFox24]

Look I agree Bryd should have been locked up long before it got to the point where it did.

Luckily they locked up Woods before the season and hopefully that will be the new trend with Whaley.

That being said it is what it is, Bryd is gone and we just need to move on.

Yes it sucks, but him leaving does not drop us from sure fire playoff team to non playoff team. He in no way shape or form makes us a playoff team or not.

He is a great player and top 3 safety in the league no doubt.

Hopefully the Bills do the right thing and lock up Spiller, Dareus, Gilmore, Glenn, and Kiko when time comes.

[EDS]

Look I agree Bryd should have been locked up long before it got to the point where it did.

Luckily they locked up Woods before the season and hopefully that will be the new trend with Whaley.

That being said it is what it is, Bryd is gone and we just need to move on.

Yes it sucks, but him leaving does not drop us from sure fire playoff team to non playoff team. He in no way shape or form makes us a playoff team or not.

He is a great player and top 3 safety in the league no doubt.

Hopefully the Bills do the right thing and lock up Spiller, Dareus, Gilmore, Glenn, and Kiko when time comes.

I would sooner commit big money to a safety then a running back.

[DesertFox24]

I would sooner commit big money to a safety then a running back.

Yes definitely agree with you here.

However, I would pay a Running back that is a game breaker like Peterson Johnson, and yes I would put Spiller in there. I think the injury prevented us from seeing all that Buffalo wants to do with him.

Hopefully he is healthy this season and we see him running routes, and getting the ball in space more.