Homers VS Pessimists VS Realists

[Mike]

2012

Homer Arguments: Levitre
- Levitre isn't worth $$$, our line is very good and will be fine.
- Guards aren't worth that much
- Tennessee overpaid
- We can replace him in the draft or FA
- Give is FO a chance, they are pros and know what they are doing.
- Can't afford him
- Saving money for Byrd


Realists Arguments: Levitre
- Line will suffer
- Bills have enough money to sign both Players
- Pro Bowl G dont grow on trees, replacing him be difficult
- Why give new FO benefit of doubt? They haven't proved anything.

2013 Conclusion
Loosing Levitre did make a difference and the line did suffer as it went from a unit of strength in 2012 to a unit of weakness in 2013


Homer Arguments: On Talent, Winning, EJ, AFCE, & More
- Bills are a talented team that is one QB and Coach away from Playoffs
- EJ is the right guy, Bills should compete maybe even make the playoffs
- EJ will help Bills win
- Bills are in weak division and can potentially win division
- BILLS Will be BETTER in 2013 than 2012
- Pats are done, they have no WR, TE, and Brady will decline
- Dols will suck Balls, all they did as spend money and none of their FAs will pan out
- Jets are imploding, expect them to win 2-4 games,
- Jets are done, Rex deserves to get fired
- Jets suck, Dols overspent, and Pats are not what they were, expect Bills to win in the Div and potentially win Div
- Bills will find a way to overcome their weaknesses and build on their strenghts

Realists:
- Rookie QBs and Coaches rarely win in 1st season
- Rookie QBs tend to struggle, expect a loosing season
- EJ is not a top QB prospect, worst time to draft a QB
- Dols improved talent might show up on the field
- Pats find a way to make due with what they have
- Pats still class of AFCE, will win Div
- Pats not done, yet
- Pats will overcome weaknesses and build on strenghts
- No reason to believe Bills new FO will be better than 20/20 hindsight or better than other FO

Conclusion:
- Pats found a way to overcome WR/TE problem, win the Division, and go to their 3rd straight AFC Championship Game
- Rex found a way to ride the Jets to 2nd place in the Division with an 8-8 record (albeit with less talent and a worst QB than the Bills according to our homers)
- Dolphins found a way to loose out on a sure fire playoff spot towards the end of the season....
- Bills had their patented 6-10 season, just enough to make you question their destiny and in the process finished dead last in a weak AFCE division.
- EJ did struggle, and was not even named to rookie team, an honor bestowed upon Mike Glennon -a third round pic.



---> 2014 Homer Arguments: Byrd, EJ, & More <-----

Byrd
He is over valued player who luckily got 33 To and has no business being one of top paid FS
FS is not an important NFL position
We can replace him in the draft
We can not afford him
He is not that good
He is another greedy player
He sucks
Its the scheme that got him all those INT's
He is nowhere as good at Troy P, or Reed, etc...
He doesn't deserve to be top paid FS
Bills cant afford him, need to save money so to spend on another player
Loosing him wont impact defense much
Can replace him in draft

EJ
He was a rookie
He played well, very well considering he was a rookie
He needs weapons, we need to get him a better line, better WR, better TE,
Its not his fault he struggled, in fact he didn't really struggle he played well just look at the Panther game
He's going to improve big time in year 2
Of course we lost in 2012, he was just a rookie, what do you expect.
EJ's rookie season was almost the same as Cam's rookie season, just look at their stats


The Team
We will be better next year after 1 full off season for EJ.
Of course we will improve, last year was a fluke because we had a rookie coach and rookie QB
All of our players will become much better with a complete off season under this coaching regime
We will improve in the draft
We might get a few good players in FA
Dols suck and we will better, Jets are no good and Geno is bad, Pats are getting old, we can take the division
EJ is going to be a good QB


REALISTS:
- Loosing Byrd will make a difference and he will not be easy to replace
- EJ has fundamental issues to his game, such as accuracy, which will hinder his ceiling
- Great players make players around them better, players like Manning, Favre, and Brady don't need a great Oline, Great WR, Great TE, Great RB to be successful. Instead they elevate those players and position to greatness.
- If Bills dont want to spend money on Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Pat, Clements, Winfield, etc.. why and how would they spend money on getting a great oline, te, wr, for EJ?
- All of our players will NOT improve, many may get worst, other teams will also improve and get worst, and it will be a wash
- Everyone gets to draft so everyone has chance to improve
- EJ has been one of the worst first round picks to come out this century, his rookie season is no where as good as Cam's


Just an observation but it seems like the context and the arguments are the SAME, just the content has changed a bit. Instead of Lossman being he future its EJ, instead of Peters being a greedy bafoon its Byrd, and so on.

[YardRat]

Wow, that's a stretch on Levitre.

Homer argument for both he and Byrd should be more like "OMG!!! These guys are elite, we drafted them, and they both deserve to be paid #1 money!!!"

[YardRat]

Losing Levitre did not make a difference...for us OR Tennessee. That's just wishful thinking. Losing Byrd won't make a difference either.

[Mike]

Some people will never get it ---->yardrat

[kishoph]

Obviously the OP is a "realist" and he put a twist and spin everything to make it look like the "realist" are the know all of football, which one of these so called "realist" on this board have ever said, Rookie QBs and Coaches rarely win in 1st season, or Rookie QBs tend to struggle, expect a loosing season, I've seen plenty of "homers say just that. All I ever see from this group is, EJ sucks, Marrone sucks, etc. The funniest is dividing the 2 groups on what they predicted would happen to the Pats.
Maybe the OP is a poster that thinks without emotion, but that is certainly a minority around here. The majority that refer to themselves as "realist" are nothing more than trolls that like to refer to themselves as "realist" to justify their bashing. Neither side is always right.

[SpikedLemonade]

Losing Levitre did not make a difference...for us OR Tennessee. That's just wishful thinking. Losing Byrd won't make a difference either.

Will the money not being spent again make a difference to Ralph?

Really?

The beneficiaries of his estate need an extra $20M a year to be added to their inheritance?

Bills fans owe Ralph more than they have given him over the past 53 years?

Do the local taxpayers owe him more than they have given him as well?

Poor Ralph. He is so hard done by by a city and fan base that was his second choice.

[Fixxxer]

great football topic..............

[YardRat]

Will the money not being spent again make a difference to Ralph?

Really?

The beneficiaries of his estate need an extra $20M a year to be added to their inheritance?

Bills fans owe Ralph more than they have given him over the past 53 years?

Do the local taxpayers owe him more than they have given him as well?

Poor Ralph. He is so hard done by by a city and fan base that was his second choice.

You have zero clue what the finances at OBD look like, especially any monies that Wilson accrues as income.

I don't know why the change in topic, but I never said Bills' fans or taxpayers owed Ralph anything.

[Downinfloflo]

Homers get it wrong in every sport.

[SquishDaFish]

Levitre isnt worth that money and wasnt good in Tenn either. Byrd on the other hand is worth the cash

[Novacane]

You forgot a category. Negative Nancy's who will bash no matter what.

[Mace]

I bounce into both pools, sometimes 3 or 4 times in 10 minutes.

Internet nuggets of gold when people put the effort into writing a beefy fun read. Excellent !

[YardRat]

People are missing the point of this thread, imo. Losing a player here and there is acceptable if you're a respectable franchise and/or a team saddled with cap constraints. We are neither. We have the money, but refuse to spend it, despite 15 years of atrocious, painful football. Anybody who defends this spendthrift philosophy is contributing to the poisonous stigma that surrounds this franchise--THAT's the point. I don't give a crap what a guy's stats are on some other team since he left. He (Levitre, Peters, et al) was good here, liked here, needed here, and fit here--but we cast them aside to save a few shekels, and every year the pendulum swings back and forth (good oline in 2012, bad in 2013) based on our hebish practices

Spending just for the sake of spending is a recipe for disaster. You can go back 15 years and count on one hand the number of Buffalo draft picks that were worth the money they were looking for, and neither Levitre or Byrd are on that list. Add in UDFA's and FA's, use two hands, and you'd still have some spare digits.

Levitre is better than M.Williams, Brown and Wang. Byrd is better than Lankster, Rogers and Corner. Big deal, that doesn't make them elite, it just makes them better than the vast majority of the rest of our failed draft picks.

[pmoon6]

HaHaha. You're a homer if you don't think Levitre was worth the salary that Tennessee offered and don't think Byrd is worth being paid as the top safety in the league.

Alrighty then.

If that's the case change "realist" to brain dead moron. We have to fine examples of that moniker right in this thread.

[sudzy]

The problem I have is when people say someone wasn't worth that much money. I get that. Spend your cap wisely, but spend it. The Bills don't spend it. So would the Bills be a better team overpaying for Levitre or signing scrubs and sitting on all the money they saved by not signing Levitre?

[pmoon6]

The problem I have is when people say someone wasn't worth that much money. I get that. Spend your cap wisely, but spend it. The Bills don't spend it. So would the Bills be a better team overpaying for Levitre or signing scrubs and sitting on all the money they saved by not signing Levitre?The problem with overpaying players is that it sets a market value. Paying a guard or a safety more money than they're worth just raises the ceiling for other players at their position. Al Davis, Daniel Snyder and Jerry Jones did it for years trying to buy a championship and it has escalated players salaries to what we have today.

Evaluate the player and offer him a fair contract and negotiate. If he wants to break the bank or leverage you, tell him to take a hike.

[gr8slayer]

I won't argue whether or not he was worth the money, but to say that he wasn't good this year just isn't true.
Levitre isnt worth that money and wasnt good in Tenn either. Byrd on the other hand is worth the cash

[DesertFox24]

Of course losing bryd will hurt, and yes you are correct that this coaching staff, front office, and team still has not proved anything.

That being said today's nfl you have to let some players walk because you don't know what the cap will be and you may end up losing a guy you don't want to lose.

[better days]

Well, I have been accused of being a HOMER many times on this board, but it looks like I am a realist.

I wanted to keep Levitre & Byrd both.

I said at the time, Levitre will not be as easy to replace as many think.

[Goobylal]

The problem with overpaying players is that it sets a market value. Paying a guard or a safety more money than they're worth just raises the ceiling for other players at their position. Al Davis, Daniel Snyder and Jerry Jones did it for years trying to buy a championship and it has escalated players salaries to what we have today.

Evaluate the player and offer him a fair contract and negotiate. If he wants to break the bank or leverage you, tell him to take a hike.
Exactly. Overpaying guys like Walker and Dockery led Peters to have a hissy fit.

Of course losing bryd will hurt, and yes you are correct that this coaching staff, front office, and team still has not proved anything.

That being said today's nfl you have to let some players walk because you don't know what the cap will be and you may end up losing a guy you don't want to lose.
It remains to be seen whether it hurts or not. Too bad Gilmore got hurt and missed same games Byrd did because I'd like to have seen the defense without Byrd. As it stood, the Bills were 2-3 without him, 3-6 with him, and 1-1 with him working his way back in.

[DynaPaul]

How many of these big money players that we didn't re-sign became an integral part of their next team's success? I really can't think of any. The NFL seems to be trending away from mega-contracts and focusing more on value players. I can't blame them since no one wants the next Albert Haynesworth. Look at Seattle's roster for example, most of those guys are low cost and lower drafted players who made a difference but not all of them will be signed when the bells toll and will be replaced by fresher, cheaper players.

[Mike]

Wanna know what it feels like to be a realist in a sea of homers? Feels kinda like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DctWBdv2HfE

Brilliant

[Mike]

How many of these big money players that we didn't re-sign became an integral part of their next team's success? I really can't think of any. The NFL seems to be trending away from mega-contracts and focusing more on value players. I can't blame them since no one wants the next Albert Haynesworth. Look at Seattle's roster for example, most of those guys are low cost and lower drafted players who made a difference but not all of them will be signed when the bells toll and will be replaced by fresher, cheaper players.

Please make your comparisons valid.
For instance, Seatle has been the best drafter of talent the last 3+ years. If the Bills FO and scouting has 20/20 hindsight, then Seatless has 20/10 vision. At least 2x better which lead to a stacked roster. So here's our first major difference:

1) They won't be able to sign all their players long term because of sal cap
2) they are signing their best players
3) they are using all their cap $$$
4) spending over the cap will be justifiable (they have has some years below cap so having years above will insure they don't pay penalty for being below 90%)
5) scouting: if anyone can replace the talent they have, they can.
6) development: if anyone can develop the talent like they have, they can.
7) loss: if anyone can afford to loose good or great players and still be a good team, they can.

Conclusion: Seatle drafts and develops talent better than any other team, they will have rookie contracts experience soon. They are saving money for their top players and Will pay their top players. Seatle will spend All the Sal Cap $$$ and maybe more. Only because of Sal Cap restrictions, Seatle will not be able to sign some players.

But you watch, in a few years someone on this board will ask, "how can Seatle afford so many superstars like XYZ players and we can't even afford one?"

Lastly, none of that applied to a Bills team that can not draft, develop or sign players while being $20M+ under the cap.

[Jry44]

This is ******ed... everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What happened to respecting this? And why do so many people on message boards have such an obsession with proving other posters wrong? How does another poster being an optimist or pessimist affect you? It's pretty lame.....

[ParanoidAndroid]

This s*** is played the f*** out.

[feldspar]

This is ******ed... everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What happened to respecting this? And why do so many people on message boards have such an obsession with proving other posters wrong? How does another poster being an optimist or pessimist affect you? It's pretty lame.....

This about sums it up for me...and I'm not about to read this whole thread.

Homers vs. Realists...an all-out brawl. As if everything is black-and-white, and there are only two ways people can be, or look at things. Of course, the "realists" must me the ones that are right because they are firmly entrenched in reality. Uh-huh. Lots of people go on message boards not to just express their opinion, but to "correct" others' way of thinking...set 'em straight and put 'em in line.

You are right though. Seems like the issue has more to do with pessimism and optimism to me...and if the "realists" never have any form of optimism that cannot be logically proven in their own minds, they should jump off a cliff immediately instead of trying to drag others down.

[Meathead]

HaHaha. You're a homer if you don't think Levitre was worth the salary that Tennessee offered and don't think Byrd is worth being paid as the top safety in the league.


maybe its the 3:53AM talking but dont you have that backwards

if you DONT think viagra and byrd are worth the money they got/expect then that would be the realists not the homers. right?

eh screw it, i gotta go back to sleep. the only reason im even awake is some redneck ****** couple just banged on my door looking for somebody they wanted to beat up. and man do i mean redneck ******s. i realize that by calling them redneck ******s im calling all white ppl redneck ******s but hoo boy i wish i had a pic to show you cuz these were classic redneck ******s

[pmoon6]

maybe its the 3:53AM talking but dont you have that backwards

if you DONT think viagra and byrd are worth the money they got/expect then that would be the realists not the homers. right?

eh screw it, i gotta go back to sleep. the only reason im even awake is some redneck ****** couple just banged on my door looking for somebody they wanted to beat up. and man do i mean redneck ******s. i realize that by calling them redneck ******s im calling all white ppl redneck ******s but hoo boy i wish i had a pic to show you cuz these were classic redneck ******sEvidently sarcasm is not your strong suit.

You're a so called "realist" if you take the pessimists' view and cry about every move that OBD makes because you don't get to fist pump more than 7 times a year. It's indicative of the culture. Don't get what you want and someone has to be to blame. They play the victim well.

Boo ****ing hoo.

[Fletch]

^Yeah, silly fans for wanting to hold onto the few talented players they have. We should be dumpster diving for 2nd/3rd stringer FA's per par...those scrubs won't mind if we lowball them a few shekels

That's what we do. What was Fitzpatrick? He was a 2nd stringer, tops. Just because he started in Cincy, more due to circumstances, doesn't change the facts.

Then they paid him a helluva lot more than Byrd is asking, presumably under the theory that if they pay him the performance will follow, because there was no basis to pay him otherwise.

Mario's overpaid too. He sucks against the run, which couldn't have been more evident than it was this season, and for a player so connected with sacks, doesn't even typically rank among the top-10. Even this season in a pass-pressure heavy D, he finished with 1/2 to 1-1/2 sacks more than than players ranked from 5th through 15th.

[pmoon6]

That's what we do. What was Fitzpatrick? He was a 2nd stringer, tops. Just because he started in Cincy, more due to circumstances, doesn't change the facts.

Then they paid him a helluva lot more than Byrd is asking, presumably under the theory that if they pay him the performance will follow, because there was no basis to pay him otherwise.

Mario's overpaid too. He sucks against the run, which couldn't have been more evident than it was this season, and for a player so connected with sacks, doesn't even typically rank among the top-10. Even this season in a pass-pressure heavy D, he finished with 1/2 to 1-1/2 sacks more than than players ranked from 5th through 15th.Sacks are a function of the entire Defensive line, not only one player unless you want to get in Deacon Jones/Reggie White/Bruce Smith territory. We led the league in that category. Funny how the Anti-Fans ***** about how much Mario Williams is paid @DE and try to apply it to Jarius Byrd at probably the most insignificant position on the defense. Also, if you want to bash Mario for run defense and give Byrd a pass, I don't know what to tell you. The defensive middle and the outside linebackers are mostly responsible for stopping the run.

[Typ0]

I think it's funny that there is STILL a homers vs. realist thread at the top of the boards.

[Typ0]

the problem with our team is there is never a core of constant talent to carry us from one season to the next ... in any level of the organization for that matter.

[WagonCircler]

I don't know why the change in topic, but I never said Bills' fans or taxpayers owed Ralph anything.

It's what's known as the common "LOOK AT MEEEEEE" post.

It's like reverse attention deficit disorder. Some people suffer fits when they're not being paid attention to.

[feldspar]

It's what's known as the common "LOOK AT MEEEEEE" post.

It's like reverse attention deficit disorder. Some people suffer fits when they're not being paid attention to.

I'll take that further and call it a "Look at me. I'm an ass" post.

Seriously, Spiked claims that Ralph Wilson is a racist too. He just hates the man and hopes he dies. At least he's got his priorities in order.

Yeah, he figured that Ralph Wilson is a racist because he imagined that Ralph Wilson wouldn't have drafted Cam Newton at #3 that year. Nevermind that the Bills didn't even have a shot at him, and nevermind that the Bills #1 and #2 quarterbacks are now black...he still maintains Ralph is a racist with ZERO proof. The only proof points in the other direction.

[Homegrown]

Can one be a realistic-homer?

[YardRat]

Can one be a realistic-homer?

"Not that there's anything wrong with that...."

[Bill Cody]

Some people will never get it ---->yardrat

Levitre did not make any difference for Tennesee. Please explain why by overpaying him he would have here?

[Mike]

Levitre did not make any difference for Tennesee. Please explain why by overpaying him he would have here?

Thats what a homer is all about. Pretending that there are no differences, scapegoating ,etc...

Just look at the Bills when he was here and when he was gone. The Bills O-Line went for being a strength to a weakness mostly because of LG. Now look at Spiller's production, the number of sacks and pressures our QBs got, the amount of time the QBs were given on average play, etc...

To Say he Made No Difference is silly.

[pmoon6]

Thats what a homer is all about. Pretending that there are no differences, scapegoating ,etc...

Just look at the Bills when he was here and when he was gone. The Bills O-Line went for being a strength to a weakness mostly because of LG. Now look at Spiller's production, the number of sacks and pressures our QBs got, the amount of time the QBs were given on average play, etc...

To Say he Made No Difference is silly.:rofl: Hmmm, considering they were running a different offense this year you might want to change you tune.

Silly indeed, bordering on ridiculous.

[better days]

I think MANY people that tell others they are realists are actually pessimists.

A realist knows NOTHING is all good or all bad.

At times they are optimistic, at other times pessimistic, depending on the subject.

[X-Era]

Merged

[better days]

Merged

WHY?????????????????

[gr8slayer]

What about us Moderates?

[better days]

What about us Moderates?

I would call moderates......... realists.

The pessimists that call themselves realists are a JOKE.