Buffalo is not for everyone

[better days]

Good luck to Byrd in N.O.

BETTER Luck to Dan Carpenter.

Buffalo may not be for everyone, but there are many people that like what Buffalo has to offer.

I want players on the Bills like Dan Carpenter that WANT to be in Buffalo.

[The Jokeman]

Good luck to Byrd in N.O.

BETTER Luck to Dan Carpenter.

Buffalo may not be for everyone, but there are many people that like what Buffalo has to offer.

I want players on the Bills like Dan Carpenter that WANT to be in Buffalo.

Keeping drinking the team's kool-aid man. It's fans like you that has made Ralph unaccountable for years. I could care less if the guys on the team like the city or are nice guys off the field/role models. I just want to see a winning team and a Super Bowl win before I die.

[SpikedLemonade]

What a ridiculous thread!

[BillsFever21]

Average players love the Bills. This is where they go or stay to get paid more then anyone else will give them.

[better days]

Keeping drinking the team's kool-aid man. It's fans like you that has made Ralph unaccountable for years. I could care less if the guys on the team like the city or are nice guys off the field/role models. I just want to see a winning team and a Super Bowl win before I die.

I will drink the kool aid.

You can drink the POISON signing someone like Vick would offer up.

I want to win, but I want to do it the RIGHT way with players of Character, NOT SCUM BAGS like Vick.

[SpikedLemonade]

Average players love the Bills. This is where they go or stay to get paid more then anyone else will give them.

"But...but...but those players like being in Buffalo...."

I wish some of these homers who pine for the Buffalo they remember from the early 70's would remember why they left Buffalo or simply move back there now.

[The Jokeman]

I will drink the kool aid.

You can drink the POISON signing someone like Vick would offer up.

I want to win, but I want to do it the RIGHT way with players of Character, NOT SCUM BAGS like Vick.

I don't want Vick. He's an injury waiting to happen and a below average QB at that. I'm willing to let Manuel develop but want us to give him a better surrounding cast (through free agency) to do so.

[better days]

I don't want Vick. He's an injury waiting to happen and a below average QB at that. I'm willing to let Manuel develop but want us to give him a better surrounding cast (through free agency) to do so.

Well, we want the same thing for the most part.

I just want to sign players that have good character & want to be in Buffalo rather than SCUM BAGS that only care about the money.

[better days]

"But...but...but those players like being in Buffalo...."

I wish some of these homers who pine for the Buffalo they remember from the early 70's would remember why they left Buffalo or simply move back there now.

Have you EVER been to Buffalo?

Those of us that left in the 70's & 80's did so because of a lack of jobs, NOT because we didn't love Buffalo.

[BillsFever21]

Yep better days has officially bent over and taken it up the rear with his rose colored glasses on. He loved Byrd until the Bills didn't want to pony up the money to sign him. Now he is a scum bag.

But hey there is a silver lining to it all. I'm sure we can find a couple more fringe starters at best that are willing to sign here for 3-4 million a year instead of 2-3 million a year from another team. Of course they will love Buffalo even though they have never been here before that unless they happened to play a game here...or sit on the bench watching it. Hell they may even turn that into another contract extension when nobody else will want them.

[better days]

Yep better days has officially bent over and taken it up the rear with his rose colored glasses on. He loved Byrd until the Bills didn't want to pony up the money to sign him. Now he is a scum bag.

I did not call Byrd a scum bag. I wished him good luck in N.O.

I can understand him going to that team & he got paid as well.

If Byrd went to the Jets or Pats*, then he would be a scum bag.

[Mr. Pink]

I will drink the kool aid.

You can drink the POISON signing someone like Vick would offer up.

I want to win, but I want to do it the RIGHT way with players of Character, NOT SCUM BAGS like Vick.

What happens if/when Vick signs here? Obviously it means he and the team want him to be here.

[better days]

What happens if/when Vick signs here? Obviously it means he and the team want him to be here.

In Cleveland?

Well, you will just have to deal with that.

[Mr. Pink]

In Cleveland?

Well, you will just have to deal with that.

I don't see him rumored to Cleveland. I do see him rumored to Buffalo however.

[better days]

I don't see him rumored to Cleveland. I do see him rumored to Buffalo however.

Well, I just hope it is like most rumors of players to Buffalo...............NOT going to happen.

[Demon]

Good luck to Byrd in N.O.

BETTER Luck to Dan Carpenter.

Buffalo may not be for everyone, but there are many people that like what Buffalo has to offer.

I want players on the Bills like Dan Carpenter that WANT to be in Buffalo.

Spoken like a true loser.

Don't be so hard on yourself, man.

[Skooby]

Enjoy your new blizzard tomorrow.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Some of you pussies could use a little cold weather.

[coastal]

Troll thread

[BertSquirtgum]

Why do people wish players good luck after they leave the team? **** them.

[more cowbell]

Players don't want to be here because the franchise is run by complete losers with a loser mentality. Simple as that. The only thing that can cure this issue is WINNING. Something this team hasn't done since the 90's

[feldspar]

It's fans like you that has made Ralph unaccountable for years.

What have fans like you done?

[WagonCircler]

Buffalo is not for everyone. This is true.

It's not for delicate little panywastes or people who whine about cold weather. It's not for egomaniacs or self-obsessed, shallow dickheads. It's not for hilariously delusional arrogant Canadians or wannabe rappers or preening pretty boys who don't like to work hard and believe they shouldn't have to put in the time for their pay.

It's the city of no illusions. We've got our own thing. It's a Buffalo thing. If you have to ask, you won't get it.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Buffalo is not for everyone. This is true.

It's not for delicate little panywastes or people who whine about cold weather. It's not for egomaniacs or self-obsessed, shallow dickheads. It's not for hilariously delusional arrogant Canadians or wannabe rappers or preening pretty boys who don't like to work hard and believe they shouldn't have to put in the time for their pay.

It's the city of no illusions. We've got our own thing. It's a Buffalo thing. If you have to ask, you won't get it.

Don't tell spiked, we all know what his fetish is.

[OpIv37]

Good luck to Byrd in N.O.

BETTER Luck to Dan Carpenter.

Buffalo may not be for everyone, but there are many people that like what Buffalo has to offer.

I want players on the Bills like Dan Carpenter that WANT to be in Buffalo.


I will drink the kool aid.

You can drink the POISON signing someone like Vick would offer up.

I want to win, but I want to do it the RIGHT way with players of Character, NOT SCUM BAGS like Vick.

So, what is the implication? Byrd's a scumbag like Vick because he didn't want to play here?

The org low-balled him last year and has sucked ever since he's been here, not to mention it's the third defensive coordinator in 3 years. Sorry, but Byrd's never been in any trouble and never started any drama like Stevie or guys like Whitner before him. It's wrong to make a character judgment on the guy because he doesn't want to work for a company that pays low, doesn't retain talent and consistently lags behind the competition.

As far as Vick, well no one mentioned him in this thread before you did, but if you insist on going that route: whether he's a scumbag or a class guy is irrevelant. 39 turnovers in his last 29 starts, and he's only made it through a whole season healthy once in his career. We are already concerned about EJ's durability- Vick's no better and doesn't have age on his side. Plus, we'd have a QB controversy the first time EJ has a **** game. The move doesn't make football sense.

[pmoon6]

Keeping drinking the team's kool-aid man. It's fans like you that has made Ralph unaccountable for years. I could care less if the guys on the team like the city or are nice guys off the field/role models. I just want to see a winning team and a Super Bowl win before I die.HaHa. The rationale that keeps some players in trouble and fosters the mindset that they can do anything they want.

"I don't care if the guys has 4 DUIs, Bluto. As long as my team wins".

[EricStratton]

NFL players are willing to go where the money is, the city doesn't matter. Their collective careers are so short and they are looking to get the paychecks and the guaranteed money to set themselves up after they are done.

Most aren't looking for a city to make connections for a life after football anymore either, those days are long gone with the money many long term guys make.

If a team pays they get players, plain and simple.

[pmoon6]

Most of you should just stop even writing complete sentences and just say "Buffalo sucks". Having to glean through paragraphs to get that message is a waste of time.

Now, go root for Denver.

[OpIv37]

HaHa. The rationale that keeps some players in trouble and fosters the mindset that they can do anything they want.

"I don't care if the guys has 4 DUIs, Bluto. As long as my team wins".
Yeah. We need to keep searching for the Chris Kelsay/JP Losman/Ryan Fitzpatrick types. They can't play football worth a damn, but they're good guys! After all, look how much success that mentality has brought us :rolleyes:

[trapezeus]

As buffalonians, we always take who comes and goes as people not liking our town. they don't care about that. They all go to small town schools for the most part and love that college football atmosphere that buffalo links up.

What they see clearly that the Better Days don't, is that nothing ever changes. there is no reward for doing a great job. and the best of the best don't want to play a brutal sport for 3-10years and look back at being a loser when they deal with all their injuries later in life.

This has nothing to do with the city of buffalo but instead the few men who run the team.

New orleans openned their wallet because they believe they are close. They are a playoff team and see the gains of short sightedness to get over the hump. if they win that bet, it will be worth it.

For buffalo, i have no idea what they are thinking. every top of the position player that we get (not a lot mind you) we lose. It's never worth it. it's a guard, it's a safety, its something or other. but the good teams, they find ways to placate guys and then supplement the team with more talent. we have a crappy injury prone qb whose ceiling is getting lower, we have a team of receivers we keep drafting but no one to get them the ball, we have two decent rb but no line to help them consistently open the field. and on d, we don't have LB depth. we got lucky last year that the injury bug didn't eat us alive per usual.

What is russ's answer? he's looking for a marketing gimmick in vick.

Now that we've completed 3 seasons of 6-10, i believe the next 3 years will be 5-11 and we'll keep hearing how we are getting so much better now that buddy is gone. i hated jauron, but he was better than what chan gave us with buddy by his side. now we're going to have the dougs fighting the good fight to improve the talent, but the coinkeepers won't allow it.

[chernobylwraiths]

Keeping drinking the team's kool-aid man. It's fans like you that has made Ralph unaccountable for years. I could care less if the guys on the team like the city or are nice guys off the field/role models. I just want to see a winning team and a Super Bowl win before I die.

How much less?

[better days]

So, what is the implication? Byrd's a scumbag like Vick because he didn't want to play here?

The org low-balled him last year and has sucked ever since he's been here, not to mention it's the third defensive coordinator in 3 years. Sorry, but Byrd's never been in any trouble and never started any drama like Stevie or guys like Whitner before him. It's wrong to make a character judgment on the guy because he doesn't want to work for a company that pays low, doesn't retain talent and consistently lags behind the competition.

As far as Vick, well no one mentioned him in this thread before you did, but if you insist on going that route: whether he's a scumbag or a class guy is irrevelant. 39 turnovers in his last 29 starts, and he's only made it through a whole season healthy once in his career. We are already concerned about EJ's durability- Vick's no better and doesn't have age on his side. Plus, we'd have a QB controversy the first time EJ has a **** game. The move doesn't make football sense.

Vick is a SCUM BAG because he KILLED dogs & gave women VD with no warning.

I would not want a SCUM BAG like Vick on the Bills even if he were a GOOD player, which he isn't.

I already said Byrd is not a Scum Bag.

[better days]

As buffalonians, we always take who comes and goes as people not liking our town. they don't care about that. They all go to small town schools for the most part and love that college football atmosphere that buffalo links up.

What they see clearly that the Better Days don't, is that nothing ever changes. there is no reward for doing a great job. and the best of the best don't want to play a brutal sport for 3-10years and look back at being a loser when they deal with all their injuries later in life.

This has nothing to do with the city of buffalo but instead the few men who run the team.

New orleans openned their wallet because they believe they are close. They are a playoff team and see the gains of short sightedness to get over the hump. if they win that bet, it will be worth it.

For buffalo, i have no idea what they are thinking. every top of the position player that we get (not a lot mind you) we lose. It's never worth it. it's a guard, it's a safety, its something or other. but the good teams, they find ways to placate guys and then supplement the team with more talent. we have a crappy injury prone qb whose ceiling is getting lower, we have a team of receivers we keep drafting but no one to get them the ball, we have two decent rb but no line to help them consistently open the field. and on d, we don't have LB depth. we got lucky last year that the injury bug didn't eat us alive per usual.

What is russ's answer? he's looking for a marketing gimmick in vick.

Now that we've completed 3 seasons of 6-10, i believe the next 3 years will be 5-11 and we'll keep hearing how we are getting so much better now that buddy is gone. i hated jauron, but he was better than what chan gave us with buddy by his side. now we're going to have the dougs fighting the good fight to improve the talent, but the coinkeepers won't allow it.

NO NOT all people go to small town schools. And people develop their personality long before they get to College as well.

The Bills have signed players like Erick Wood & Stevie Johnson & Kyle Williams.

They TRIED to sign Byrd. I blame his leaving on his agent.

Byrd put the entire negotiation in his agents hands & Parker chose to move Byrd out of Buffalo even though the Bills were reported to have offered $30 Mill over the first 3 years.

[jdaltroy5]

NO NOT all people go to small town schools. And people develop their personality long before they get to College as well.

The Bills have signed players like Erick Wood & Stevie Johnson & Kyle Williams.

They TRIED to sign Byrd. I blame his leaving on his agent.

Byrd put the entire negotiation in his agents hands & Parker chose to move Byrd out of Buffalo even though the Bills were reported to have offered $30 Mill over the first 3 years.Tim Graham reported that the average amount for the contract was about 7.5 mil per year and the guaranteed money has never been reported. Byrd himself also said that the 10 mil a year figure was a lie.

He got out because the Bills lowballed him.

It has nothing to do with the city or the weather.

[The Jokeman]

How much less?

lol I know that's your pet peeve, sorry. I guess I got wrapped up in it I wasn't watching my grammar.

[better days]

Tim Graham reported that the average amount for the contract was about 7.5 mil per year and the guaranteed money has never been reported. Byrd himself also said that the 10 mil a year figure was a lie.

He got out because the Bills lowballed him.

It has nothing to do with the city or the weather.

We won't know all the details of the contract & a contract can be for $10 Mill for the first 3 years & still average 7.5 Mill over the life of the contract.

We do know $22 Mill is guaranteed to Byrd by the Saints. It remains to be seen how much more than that he ever pockets from that contract.

[The Jokeman]

HaHa. The rationale that keeps some players in trouble and fosters the mindset that they can do anything they want.

"I don't care if the guys has 4 DUIs, Bluto. As long as my team wins".
Then that's on the player not me. We all have to answer to our own set of morals and I'm not one to throw mine on anyone else. Sure I'd prefer everyone live up to mine but I know that's not going to happen no matter what I do/say.

[SpikedLemonade]

We won't know all the details of the contract & a contract can be for $10 Mill for the first 3 years & still average 7.5 Mill over the life of the contract.

We do know $22 Mill is guaranteed to Byrd by the Saints. It remains to be seen how much more than that he ever pockets from that contract.

$28M.

[Oaf]

"Q: Can you sum up why you wanted to stay in Buffalo?

A: It’s a great organization. My wife and I very much enjoyed everyone that we’ve met here, worked with here and the fans are great. Even when I was playing against Buffalo in my Miami days I’ve always recognized how great the fans have been here and their support of the Bills. For us it was a no brainer to come back to Buffalo. We were comfortable and loved it here last year. To be able to go back somewhere and be wanted where you would like to go, you’re very fortunate in this league for that to happen. We’re very happy to be here and excited to see where it goes."

[better days]

$28M.

My bad, you are correct $28 Mill Guaranteed to Byrd.

Still if the Bills offer of $30 Mill in the first 3 years is correct, that is $2 Mill less than Byrd would have made his first three years under the Bills contract.

But no report on what amount the Bills guaranteed.

[OLDSRIP]

"But...but...but those players like being in Buffalo...."

I wish some of these homers who pine for the Buffalo they remember from the early 70's would remember why they left Buffalo or simply move back there now.

I did move back to WNY. What's your point? I know a lot of people who have returned and many who didn't.

[gr8slayer]

I've only been to the greater Buffalo area once, but I thought it was great.

[jdaltroy5]

We won't know all the details of the contract & a contract can be for $10 Mill for the first 3 years & still average 7.5 Mill over the life of the contract.

We do know $22 Mill is guaranteed to Byrd by the Saints. It remains to be seen how much more than that he ever pockets from that contract.Well, in the end, New Orleans offered him a lot more money. I'd bet dollars to donuts they offered him a lot more guaranteed money too.

[better days]

Well, in the end, New Orleans offered him a lot more money. I'd bet dollars to donuts they offered him a lot more guaranteed money too.

We don't know that.

What we do know is the Saints have a GOOD team with a GOOD but aging QB.

I understand Byrd wanting to go there even for less than the Bills offered & I also understand the Saints going all in before their window closes.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'd bet dollars to donuts they offered him a lot more guaranteed money too.

I bet that was the difference in the two contracts. They offered dollars and we offered donuts.

[jdaltroy5]

We don't know that.

What we do know is the Saints have a GOOD team with a GOOD but aging QB.

I understand Byrd wanting to go there even for less than the Bills offered & I also understand the Saints going all in before their window closes.But it's not less than the Bills offered. It's 1.8 mil MORE per year than the Bills offered and most likely had a lot more guaranteed money.

More money to play for a contending team.

I don't blame him for leaving at all. I would do the same.

[better days]

But it's not less than the Bills offered. It's 1.8 mil MORE per year than the Bills offered and most likely had a lot more guaranteed money.

More money to play for a contending team.

I don't blame him for leaving at all. I would do the same.

Yeah, I realize it is more money.

As I said, the Saints are all in before their window closes.

I said understand Byrd going there even if the Saints had offered less money.

[jdaltroy5]

Yeah, I realize it is more money.

As I said, the Saints are all in before their window closes.

I said understand Byrd going there even if the Saints had offered less money.Sorry, the way it was worded originally was confusing.

[CoolBreeze]

Keeping Byrd would have killed our cap, it's that simple. We offered him the max we could. He didn't take, so out the door with him... Can't wait to see Saints and their fans reaction when his foot injury flares up

[jdaltroy5]

Keeping Byrd would have killed our cap, it's that simple. We offered him the max we could. He didn't take, so out the door with him... Can't wait to see Saints and their fans reaction when his foot injury flares upKilled our cap?

What planet are some of you living on?

If we were to cut Legursky and Pears we will have around 27 million in cap space AFTER we pay our rookies.

[SpikedLemonade]

Killed our cap?

What planet are some of you living on?

If we were to cut Legursky and Pears we will have around 27 million in cap space AFTER we pay our rookies.

Minus our internal salary cap of $20M below the real cap leaves us only $7M.

We can't afford to spend most of the TV revenue the NFL gives us on player salaries like other franchises do in bigger cities.

Not if our owner is to make almost as much as owners in those big cities do.

You can't expect Ralph to make less. It is not his fault he chose to put a franchise in Buffalo. He was one of the original pioneers. Show him some respect.

[Mr. Pink]

HaHa. The rationale that keeps some players in trouble and fosters the mindset that they can do anything they want.

"I don't care if the guys has 4 DUIs, Bluto. As long as my team wins".

Who cares what players do off the field if they perform on it?

Would you have not wanted a guy like Ray Lewis on the roster?

I'm not judging these players by their conduct, they're not my friend, they're not my family member, they are providing me entertainment and if some wins go along with it that's even better.

My rationale or any fans rationale of the same mindset doesn't foster an athlete can do what they want, what fosters that mindset is the fact these athletes don't have family, friends, associates, whatever in their personal lives to keep them on the straight and narrow.

[WagonCircler]

I bet that was the difference in the two contracts. They offered dollars and we offered donuts.

I don't know.

Tale of the Tape:

Dollars vs Paula's Donuts

Advantage: Push

[better days]

Who cares what players do off the field if they perform on it?

Would you have not wanted a guy like Ray Lewis on the roster?

I'm not judging these players by their conduct, they're not my friend, they're not my family member, they are providing me entertainment and if some wins go along with it that's even better.

My rationale or any fans rationale of the same mindset doesn't foster an athlete can do what they want, what fosters that mindset is the fact these athletes don't have family, friends, associates, whatever in their personal lives to keep them on the straight and narrow.

If a guy has issues off the field it affects his play on the field.

Ask Hernandz, tough to make a play from the jail cell.

And yes his case is of the extreme, but many players miss games because of suspensions because of off field issues.

Not to mention some guys are like poison in the locker room & can divide a team.

[OpIv37]

If a guy has issues off the field it affects his play on the field.

Ask Hernandz, tough to make a play from the jail cell.

And yes his case is of the extreme, but many players miss games because of suspensions because of off field issues.

Not to mention some guys are like poison in the locker room & can divide a team.

It's funny that you say that as you defend Stevie Johnson, whose lack of maturity and focus have cost this team big on the field......

And I don't disagree about avoiding players who hurt the team because they get suspended or because they are locker room cancers, but we have to be careful about trying to be the morality police. It's bad enough that we have to deal with Ralph's internal salary cap. The last thing we need to do is add more requirements to finding players that our competition doesn't have.

[better days]

It's funny that you say that as you defend Stevie Johnson, whose lack of maturity and focus have cost this team big on the field......

And I don't disagree about avoiding players who hurt the team because they get suspended or because they are locker room cancers, but we have to be careful about trying to be the morality police. It's bad enough that we have to deal with Ralph's internal salary cap. The last thing we need to do is add more requirements to finding players that our competition doesn't have.

Stevie was a young immature kid, but he was never a Scum Bag & was never suspended.

I think this year you will see, Stevie has matured.

[Mr. Pink]

If a guy has issues off the field it affects his play on the field.

Ask Hernandz, tough to make a play from the jail cell.

And yes his case is of the extreme, but many players miss games because of suspensions because of off field issues.

Not to mention some guys are like poison in the locker room & can divide a team.

Dwayne Bowe, Aldon Smith, John Abraham, Dez Bryant, Elvis Dumervil, Adrian Peterson, Jason Peters have all had run ins with the law over the past 2 years. So you wouldn't want any of them?

[OpIv37]

Stevie was a young immature kid, but he was never a Scum Bag & was never suspended.

I think this year you will see, Stevie has matured.

Yeah I heard that last year... And the year before.

[Bill Cody]

Yeah. We need to keep searching for the Chris Kelsay/JP Losman/Ryan Fitzpatrick types. They can't play football worth a damn, but they're good guys! After all, look how much success that mentality has brought us :rolleyes:

I would submit to you that the two goals- winning and having good guys are NOT mutually exclusive. Admittedly it is a little hard in the NFL when like a quarter of the players are criminals but having some standards, some sense of decency is not a bad thing. In fact if your look at it the Patriots have not won a SB since the original Parcells core group got old/moved on/retired- guys like Bruschi, McGinest, Seymour, Light, Troy Brown, Ty Law were pretty good guys I think. Then BB started taking in guys like Hernandez, Spikes, Haynesworth, Dennard and things have gotten worse. They're still good just not as good. And who feels good about rooting for *******s? I don't. I'm not asking for choir boys but if someone wears the uniform I expect them not to be an embarrasment to the franchise.

[CoolBreeze]

Killed our cap?

What planet are some of you living on?

If we were to cut Legursky and Pears we will have around 27 million in cap space AFTER we pay our rookies.

Ok....So 27 million may seem like a ton, but lets say we signed Byrd 6 yrs 54 million. Your ok with giving him somewhere between a third and less than half of our 27 million cap, just on one position? I mean I wasn`t aware we were set everywhere else. Lets not forget most teams do not spend every cent of their salary cap in the offseason. So how much the Bills want to spend is a grey area. All i can say is it will be no 27 million

[OpIv37]

Ok....So 27 million may seem like a ton, but lets say we signed Byrd 6 yrs 54 million. Your ok with giving him somewhere between a third and less than half of our 27 million cap, just on one position? I mean I wasn`t aware we were set everywhere else. Lets not forget most teams do not spend every cent of their salary cap in the offseason. So how much the Bills want to spend is a grey area. All i can say is it will be no 27 million

That would be far better than how we used the cap space last year: shoving it in Ralph's mattress.

[Bill Cody]

Would you have not wanted a guy like Ray Lewis on the roster?



I liked OJ but not so much ever since that whole double homocide thing. Some things are tough to get by, you know? I mean Ray Ray was a great player and he did the whole fire up the team thing before games but IMHO 2 people are dead because Ray Ray got pissed and sicked his posse of thugs on them. Maybe that doesn't register with you but I'd have trouble yelling "kill 'em Ray" at the set. But that's just me.

[Mr. Pink]

I liked OJ but not so much ever since that whole double homocide thing. Some things are tough to get by, you know? I mean Ray Ray was a great player and he did the whole fire up the team thing before games but IMHO 2 people are dead because Ray Ray got pissed and sicked his posse of thugs on them. Maybe that doesn't register with you but I'd have trouble yelling "kill 'em Ray" at the set. But that's just me.

He's not my buddy, he's not my friend, he's not my family member nor will ever be any of the three.

To me, he's just a football player and that's all he'll ever be.

Scumbag human, best inside linebacker of the NFL in the last 20 years.

OJ same deal, scumbag human, top 10 all-time NFL RB.

[better days]

Dwayne Bowe, Aldon Smith, John Abraham, Dez Bryant, Elvis Dumervil, Adrian Peterson, Jason Peters have all had run ins with the law over the past 2 years. So you wouldn't want any of them?

Want at what cost? And how many games have all these players lost because of their poor character?

Look, I realize it is not feasible to have a team composed of all Choirboys, but all things being equal, I would take the player with good character over a Scum bag.

If you offered me Aquib Talib to pair with Gilmore, I would take him in a heartbeat, but he has never missed a game because of suspension either.

[WagonCircler]

I liked OJ but not so much ever since that whole double homocide thing.

Nicole and Ron were gay?

[OpIv37]

I would submit to you that the two goals- winning and having good guys are NOT mutually exclusive. Admittedly it is a little hard in the NFL when like a quarter of the players are criminals but having some standards, some sense of decency is not a bad thing. In fact if your look at it the Patriots have not won a SB since the original Parcells core group got old/moved on/retired- guys like Bruschi, McGinest, Seymour, Light, Troy Brown, Ty Law were pretty good guys I think. Then BB started taking in guys like Hernandez, Spikes, Haynesworth, Dennard and things have gotten worse. They're still good just not as good. And who feels good about rooting for *******s? I don't. I'm not asking for choir boys but if someone wears the uniform I expect them not to be an embarrasment to the franchise.

All I'm saying is we already have to deal with Ralph's internal cap that's $20 million less than the rest of the NFL. the last thing we need is another impediment to finding good players.

In an ideal world, if you had a choice between two players with roughly equal ability, and one's a thug and the other isn't, the choice is obvious. But the real world is never that simple. I'm not saying to throw character and morality completely out the window. I'm just saying that, in order to win, sometimes that means dealing with players who get the job done on the field, even if we don't really like them as human beings.

[pmoon6]

Yeah. We need to keep searching for the Chris Kelsay/JP Losman/Ryan Fitzpatrick types. They can't play football worth a damn, but they're good guys! After all, look how much success that mentality has brought us :rolleyes:Or the could sign Aaron Hernandez. He be good.

Suck it.

[OpIv37]

Or the could sign Aaron Hernandez. He be good.

Suck it.

The Bills took Marcus Easley 6 picks before Hernandez. At least the Pats got two productive years out of the guy before it went to ****. That's far more than we ever got from Easley.

Suck it.

[BillsFever21]

The Bills offered him 7.5 million dollars a year? You have to be kidding me. After he gave them the finger they basically just handed most of that money to Williams instead. If Byrd won't play for that money then they will overpay for the lesser player at a lower amount. That's the Bills strategy for almost a decade. You have to admit that it's worked brilliantly.

[Mr. Pink]

All I'm saying is we already have to deal with Ralph's internal cap that's $20 million less than the rest of the NFL. the last thing we need is another impediment to finding good players.

In an ideal world, if you had a choice between two players with roughly equal ability, and one's a thug and the other isn't, the choice is obvious. But the real world is never that simple. I'm not saying to throw character and morality completely out the window. I'm just saying that, in order to win, sometimes that means dealing with players who get the job done on the field, even if we don't really like them as human beings.

I'm saying throw morality completely out the window when it comes to a football team.

Whatever wins.

As your other posts stated 2 years of a productive Hernandez vs a bunch of garbage from Easley...I take the 2 productive years every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The above is why when Vick first came back, I was hoping that the Bills would be a major player for his services. He would have brought wins, some national spotlight and entertaining football. At this point he's in obvious decline so there's not really a need to get him but he ain't my homeboy and if he wants to be a scumbag off the field I couldn't possibly care less.

[feldspar]

The Bills took Marcus Easley 6 picks before Hernandez. At least the Pats got two productive years out of the guy before it went to ****. That's far more than we ever got from Easley.

Suck it.

You are actually going to defend the Hernandez pick in any way at this point? You are going to say that he was a better pick than ANYBODY when you know what you do about Hernandez? Wow.

If we knew who both players were before the fact, I would rather have drafted a decent person who was the worst player in the history of mankind than Hernandez. We're talking about a gangland killer here, unless you actually believe that he's innocent.

You don't sell your soul to have your team win a game...well maybe you do, but I never would.

Holy Christ. The guy could have killed your brother or father. But as long as we win some games, that's worthwhile? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's what it sounds like you are saying.

[feldspar]

As your other posts stated 2 years of a productive Hernandez vs a bunch of garbage from Easley...I take the 2 productive years every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


That's because you have no morals, seemingly.

[BuffaloRedleg]

All I'm saying is we already have to deal with Ralph's internal cap that's $20 million less than the rest of the NFL. the last thing we need is another impediment to finding good players.

In an ideal world, if you had a choice between two players with roughly equal ability, and one's a thug and the other isn't, the choice is obvious. But the real world is never that simple. I'm not saying to throw character and morality completely out the window. I'm just saying that, in order to win, sometimes that means dealing with players who get the job done on the field, even if we don't really like them as human beings.

There is something to be said for giving people a second chance as well.

People grow up. People change.

I've seen some seriously ghetto dudes grow into normal, thoughtful, adults once given a chance to re-invent themselves.

There are certain crimes and certain people that owe no such opportunity, but being disrespectful punk isn't one of them.

[Luisito23]

LOL...nothing the Bills do is ever wrong for Better days.

No matter how wrong of mistake they make, he will always justify the team and it's horrible players.

Excuse, after excuse...

How I wish he were my employer.

[better days]

LOL...nothing the Bills do is ever wrong for Better days.

No matter how wrong of mistake they make, he will always justify the team and it's horrible players.

Excuse, after excuse...

How I wish he were my employer.

You obviously don't read my posts.

I was PISSED when they let Levitre walk.

I was PISSED when they traded Lynch for peanuts.

I was PISSED when they didn't cut Trent before the start of Chan's first season.

I was PISSED they didn't draft a QB before EJ.

And I let my feelings be known on this board.

So what the hell are you talking about?

You are FULL of CHIT.

[OpIv37]

You are actually going to defend the Hernandez pick in any way at this point? You are going to say that he was a better pick than ANYBODY when you know what you do about Hernandez? Wow.

If we knew who both players were before the fact, I would rather have drafted a decent person who was the worst player in the history of mankind than Hernandez. We're talking about a gangland killer here, unless you actually believe that he's innocent.

You don't sell your soul to have your team win a game...well maybe you do, but I never would.

Holy Christ. The guy could have killed your brother or father. But as long as we win some games, that's worthwhile? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's what it sounds like you are saying.
Revisionist history.

The Pats knew he had character concerns when they drafted him. They didn't know he was a killer.

And the "he could have killed your brother or father" part is a bull**** emotional appeal that has no part in legitimate discussion. It has nothing to do with facts or logic.

[trapezeus]

The Bills took Marcus Easley 6 picks before Hernandez. At least the Pats got two productive years out of the guy before it went to ****. That's far more than we ever got from Easley.

Suck it.

And you call yourself a bills fan. we got a special teamer. if you can tackle a kick returner or be a kick returner, that's all we care about.

[feldspar]

Revisionist history.

The Pats knew he had character concerns when they drafted him. They didn't know he was a killer.

And the "he could have killed your brother or father" part is a bull**** emotional appeal that has no part in legitimate discussion. It has nothing to do with facts or logic.

It's not revisionist history. We are talking about this right NOW.

[pmoon6]

Revisionist history.

The Pats knew he had character concerns when they drafted him. They didn't know he was a killer.

And the "he could have killed your brother or father" part is a bull**** emotional appeal that has no part in legitimate discussion. It has nothing to do with facts or logic.You missed my point, but considering your lack of intelligence, I don't find that surprising.

The idea that players are excused for almost anything outside of football as long as their team wins is a problem and a reflection of the modern sports fan. You seem to be one of those guys and therefore enable players to do exactly as they please with no consequence. Let a normal guy like you and me drive drunk or abuse a woman and see what happens. Double standard and one that you seemingly embrace.

[better days]

Revisionist history.

The Pats knew he had character concerns when they drafted him. They didn't know he was a killer.

And the "he could have killed your brother or father" part is a bull**** emotional appeal that has no part in legitimate discussion. It has nothing to do with facts or logic.

They knew he was a thug that had a gangstas personality.

It was reported he had many incidents in Gainesville before he was drafted.

[OpIv37]

You missed my point, but considering your lack of intelligence, I don't find that surprising.

The idea that players are excused for almost anything outside of football as long as their team wins is a problem and a reflection of the modern sports fan. You seem to be one of those guys and therefore enable players to do exactly as they please with no consequence. Let a normal guy like you and me drive drunk or abuse a woman and see what happens. Double standard and one that you seemingly embrace.

You seem to think that the Bills not signing Vick or not drafting Hernandez with change that mentality. It won't.

Like it or not, the rest of the NFL doesn't care if a guy is a criminal off the field as long as he can play. Is it right? No, but it is what it is. If we are the only team looking at character over ability, we are guaranteed to be perpetual losers.

But at least we get to feel all warm and fuzzy inside for signing a bunch of Boy Scouts.

- - - Updated - - -


They knew he was a thug that had a gangstas personality.

It was reported he had many incidents in Gainesville before he was drafted.

That can be said of a LOT of NFL players.

[OpIv37]

It's not revisionist history. We are talking about this right NOW.

No, we aren't.

YOU said this:


If we knew who both players were before the fact, I would rather have drafted a decent person who was the worst player in the history of mankind than Hernandez. We're talking about a gangland killer here, unless you actually believe that he's innocent.

[Historian]

That can be said of a LOT of NFL players.

Remember the Eric Moulds pizza incidents in college?

rofl

[better days]

You seem to think that the Bills not signing Vick or not drafting Hernandez with change that mentality. It won't.

Like it or not, the rest of the NFL doesn't care if a guy is a criminal off the field as long as he can play. Is it right? No, but it is what it is. If we are the only team looking at character over ability, we are guaranteed to be perpetual losers.

But at least we get to feel all warm and fuzzy inside for signing a bunch of Boy Scouts.

- - - Updated - - -



That can be said of a LOT of NFL players.

No it is NOT true of a lot of NFL players.

I would say very few NFL players are into the gansta lifestyle & if they are, they aren't in the NFL for long.

[sukie]

Isn't this why so many NFLers are bad off financially after scoring big contracts? The posse gettin paid?

[better days]

Isn't this why so many NFLers are bad off financially after scoring big contracts? The posse gettin paid?

It is one thing to have a posse of boys, but Hernandez was doing the same stuff in Gainesville he did in NE as far as attacking other people.

That is NOT the norm, even for guys raised in BAD neighborhoods.

There is a civil suit against Hernandez in Fla because he shot a friend in the eye.

[OpIv37]

No it is NOT true of a lot of NFL players.

I would say very few NFL players are into the gansta lifestyle & if they are, they aren't in the NFL for long.
You said "gangsta personality" then changed it to "gangsta lifestyle."

I'd say a lot of them have gangsta personalities because of the environment where they grew up. Doesn't mean their actually gangsta or living a gangsta lifestyle- it's just a way to get by in that neighborhood.

And yes, there are a LOT of NFL players who had incidences in college- not as many or as extreme as Hernandez, but still. There's a lot of gray area between full on thug and model citizen, and I think a lot of these guys lead more thug than you want to let on.

Anyway, this whole thing has gotten away from the absurdity of your original comments, where you said you'd rather have a middle of the road K than a Pro Bowl S because the K wants to be here, then for some reason brought up Vick and got us down this rabbit hole.

[feldspar]

No, we aren't.

YOU said this:

We're not talking about this right now? Strange.

Let me just ask the question: if you had a crystal ball and knew everything you know about Hernandez and Easley, which one of them would you draft? Would you take Hernandez's production for a few years, even though you knew he was going to jail on murder charges...or would you take Easley?

Simple hypothetical question. I'm sure you'll do your best to find fault with it, but just answer it.

[OpIv37]

We're not talking about this right now? Strange.

Let me just ask the question: if you had a crystal ball and knew everything you know about Hernandez and Easley, which one of them would you draft? Would you take Hernandez's production for a few years, even though you knew he was going to jail on murder charges...or would you take Easley?

Simple hypothetical question. I'm sure you'll do your best to find fault with it, but just answer it.
The fault is rather obvious: if I had a crystal ball I wouldn't take either of them. You're creating a false dichotomy in an attempt ti oversimplify a complex issue.

But if you are going to force me to choose: Hernandez. He's gonna kill that guy whether I pick him or not. When it comes to football players, we should judge them on their ability to play football and nothing more. Kind of strange that we want these guys to be violent monsters who are afraid of nothing on the field but perfect role models off of it.

[better days]

You said "gangsta personality" then changed it to "gangsta lifestyle."

I'd say a lot of them have gangsta personalities because of the environment where they grew up. Doesn't mean their actually gangsta or living a gangsta lifestyle- it's just a way to get by in that neighborhood.

And yes, there are a LOT of NFL players who had incidences in college- not as many or as extreme as Hernandez, but still. There's a lot of gray area between full on thug and model citizen, and I think a lot of these guys lead more thug than you want to let on.

Anyway, this whole thing has gotten away from the absurdity of your original comments, where you said you'd rather have a middle of the road K than a Pro Bowl S because the K wants to be here, then for some reason brought up Vick and got us down this rabbit hole.

I NEVER said I would rather have a middle of the road K than a Pro Bowl S!

Link my post that said THAT! You are FULL of BS.

And Carpenter did not have a middle of the road year last year, he had a GREAT year.

And I always said I wanted to keep Byrd & am sorry he left!

You are not posting ANYTHING that is true or correct about what I said.

[feldspar]

The fault is rather obvious: if I had a crystal ball I wouldn't take either of them. You're creating a false dichotomy in an attempt ti oversimplify a complex issue.

You must be a lot of fun at parties.


But if you are going to force me to choose: Hernandez. He's gonna kill that guy whether I pick him or not. When it comes to football players, we should judge them on their ability to play football and nothing more. Kind of strange that we want these guys to be violent monsters who are afraid of nothing on the field but perfect role models off of it.

You could actually root for the guy in the meantime, huh? That's what I thought.

The NFL tries to sell this whole squeaky-clean image of perfect role models, but I'm not sure how many people actually buy it. There should be a line though, and that's my point. Obviously, you disagree.

[Mr. Pink]

That's because you have no morals, seemingly.

What does morality have to do with watching entertainment on tv or at the stadium?

[better days]

What does morality have to do with watching entertainment on tv or at the stadium?

Morality should play a role in EVERYTHING in life including watching entertainment.

[feldspar]

What does morality have to do with watching entertainment on tv or at the stadium?

You should ask yourself that question, not me.

Rooting for a team means rooting for the players on it. As an extreme illustration... If you can envision yourself rooting for the most despicable person you can think of because he can play football, then what does that tell you about your priorities? Nothin'?

[Mr. Pink]

You should ask yourself that question, not me.

Rooting for a team means rooting for the players on it. As an extreme illustration... If you can envision yourself rooting for the most despicable person you can think of because he can play football, then what does that tell you about your priorities? Nothin'?

Did you root for the Bills when Marshawn Lynch was here? Did you root for the Bills when Donte Whitner was here? Did you root for either of the two of them to succeed on the field?

If the answer is yes to any of those, you hold the same viewpoint as I do, even if you won't admit to it. And what does that say about your priorities?

[feldspar]

Did you root for the Bills when Marshawn Lynch was here? Did you root for the Bills when Donte Whitner was here? Did you root for either of the two of them to succeed on the field?

If the answer is yes to any of those, you hold the same viewpoint as I do, even if you won't admit to it. And what does that say about your priorities?

You are not getting it...there is a line, or should be. It's up to the individual to decide where that line is to him. For example, to me, if a guy smokes weed or likes guns that's not going to deter me from rooting for them, although they may be stupid for jeopardizing themselves and, in effect, the team if they fail a drug test or haven't properly registered the gun. Guys like that deserve a second chance in my book, even though I don't exactly disapprove of smoking weed, and gun charges are often only a matter of failing to fill out paperwork.

I have no idea what you think Whitner did that was so terrible. Lynch wasn't the devil, either...to me, he was a kid that made mistakes. No real damage done...he never deliberately harmed anyone that I know of.

But I draw my line in the likes of Pacman Jones, Michael Vick, Aaron Hernandez, and people like that. I can't root for guys like that.

And yeah, my point is that if you can stand up and cheer for ANYBODY, your priorities are out of whack. Football is a game...it's meaningless except for what you project onto it.

[Mr. Pink]

You are not getting it...there is a line, or should be. It's up to the individual to decide where that line is to him. For example, to me, if a guy smokes weed or likes guns that's not going to deter me from rooting for them, although they may be stupid for jeopardizing themselves and, in effect, the team if they fail a drug test or haven't properly registered the gun. Guys like that deserve a second chance in my book, even though I don't exactly disapprove of smoking weed, and gun charges are often only a matter of failing to fill out paperwork.

I have no idea what you think Whitner did that was so terrible. Lynch wasn't the devil, either...to me, he was a kid that made mistakes. No real damage done...he never deliberately harmed anyone that I know of.

But I draw my line in the likes of Pacman Jones, Michael Vick, Aaron Hernandez, and people like that. I can't root for guys like that.

And yeah, my point is that if you can stand up and cheer for ANYBODY, your priorities are out of whack. Football is a game...it's meaningless except for what you project onto it.

Oh now I get it loud and clear. Morality is subjective and you can pick and choose which parts of morality you want to adhere to when it comes to your football team.

Michael Vick fighting dogs is bad but Marshawn Lynch carrying guns and almost running over someone on Chippewa while drunk is okay.

[better days]

Oh now I get it loud and clear. Morality is subjective and you can pick and choose which parts of morality you want to adhere to when it comes to your football team.

Michael Vick fighting dogs is bad but Marshawn Lynch carrying guns and almost running over someone on Chippewa while drunk is okay.

The woman Lynch almost hit was DRUNK.

There is no evidence Marshawn was.

[feldspar]

Oh now I get it loud and clear. Morality is subjective and you can pick and choose which parts of morality you want to adhere to when it comes to your football team.


Morality IS subjective. But if you don't really adhere to your morals and compromise them when it suits you, then you never had them in the first place.

If you would want Hitler to be your quarterback if he was 10 times better than anybody that has ever played the game, then you're a jellyfish.

[WagonCircler]

Oh now I get it loud and clear. Morality is subjective and you can pick and choose which parts of morality you want to adhere to when it comes to your football team.

Michael Vick fighting dogs is bad but Marshawn Lynch carrying guns and almost running over someone on Chippewa while drunk is okay.

No, you don't get it.

One of the things I like about the Bills is that, thus far, they're an organization that gets rid of punks like Marshawn Lynch and refuses to bring in punks like Michael Vick.

There have been plenty of tough MFers on the Bills over the years who didn't commit felonies off the field. Kelly, Talley, Hull, Speilman, Spikes, Fred Jackson, many, many more who were/are just as talented and tough as anyone who ever played.

[pmoon6]

Morality IS subjective. But if you don't really adhere to your morals and compromise them when it suits you, then you never had them in the first place.

If you would want Hitler to be your quarterback if he was 10 times better than anybody that has ever played the game, then you're a jellyfish.Indicative of today's culture. They don't care as long as they get what they want. The "MeMeMe" generations.

[Mr. Pink]

No, you don't get it.

One of the things I like about the Bills is that, thus far, they're an organization that gets rid of punks like Marshawn Lynch and refuses to bring in punks like Michael Vick.

There have been plenty of tough MFers on the Bills over the years who didn't commit felonies off the field. Kelly, Talley, Hull, Speilman, Spikes, Fred Jackson, many, many more who were/are just as talented and tough as anyone who ever played.

Yet their best defensive player of their Superbowl run was good at getting DUIs. Where was the morality police to cut/trade him? Where was the fan outrage to get rid of him? Or was he a punk that was allowed to stay?

And refuses to bring in punks? Vince Young?

[WagonCircler]

Yet their best defensive player of their Superbowl run was good at getting DUIs. Where was the morality police to cut/trade him? Where was the fan outrage to get rid of him? Or was he a punk that was allowed to stay?

And refuses to bring in punks? Vince Young?

Vince Young, the guy who either couldn't or wouldn't read the playbook? Ohhhhh, I get it. You're joking. I mean, you have to be joking, right? The guy who left the Titans like a whining like teenage girl and threatened to kill himself when things weren't going his way?

Only a complete idiot would use Vince Young as the object of his man crush. Wow.

And Bruce Smith was a great teammate. He was a kid who had never been in trouble when he was drafted, and he was absolutely not a troublemaker in the locker room. Could he come off like a douchebag occasionally? Sure. But did he get pulled over with an unregistered gun and his gang banger buddies in tow? That would be giant ****** NO.

[Mr. Pink]

Vince Young, the guy who either couldn't or wouldn't read the playbook? Ohhhhh, I get it. You're joking. I mean, you have to be joking, right? The guy who left the Titans like a whining like teenage girl and threatened to kill himself when things weren't going his way?

Only a complete idiot would use Vince Young as the object of his man crush. Wow.

And Bruce Smith was a great teammate. He was a kid who had never been in trouble when he was drafted, and he was absolutely not a troublemaker in the locker room. Could he come off like a douchebag occasionally? Sure. But did he get pulled over with an unregistered gun and his gang banger buddies in tow? That would be giant ****** NO.

You said the team doesn't bring in punks...they brought in Vince Young, did they not? How about Merriman? He choked out Tila Tequila and was arrested before being signed here.

Or is it selective morality and memory where only certain people count?

Time to cut Nigel Bradham!

[BertSquirtgum]

I wish Byrd the worst. **** this thread.

[WagonCircler]

You said the team doesn't bring in punks...they brought in Vince Young, did they not?

Vince Young is too much of a pussy to be a punk. And he's dumber than a box of doorknobs.

And Merriman? They did one better. They got rid of the idiot who brought him here.