A Healthy EJ Manuel In 2013 Would Have Won How Many Games?

[BillsImpossible]

I think this question answers the biggest question of them all. (Do the Bills have a franchise QB in EJ Manuel?)

If EJ Manuel never got injured in the preseason, his notorious injury against the Browns on Thursday Night never happened and he started all 16 games in 2013, what would the Bills record have been, realistically?

I think the conference games against the Browns, Bengals, and Chiefs would have been wins with a fully healthy EJ Manuel.

9-7 ? That's playoff material.

9-7 is a very good record for a rookie NFL quarterback, playing under a rookie head coach and an entirely new system.

Manuel missed a lot of time last year. From preseason to the regular season, EJ was plagued with injuries.

Take away those injuries, and extrapolate.

People can't expect a rookie QB to perform at his best after having surgery on his knee, injuring his other knee, and then injuring the same knee he had surgery on all in the same season.

I can't even perform my best at work if I have a cold.

What happened in 2013 is only going to make EJ Manuel a stronger, better quarterback.

Break a branch or two, and a tree suffers a temporary setback, but in the long run it grows back stronger than before.

[WagonCircler]

I think this question answers the biggest question of them all. (Do the Bills have a franchise QB in EJ Manuel?)

If EJ Manuel never got injured in the preseason, his notorious injury against the Browns on Thursday Night never happened and he started all 16 games in 2013, what would the Bills record have been, realistically?

I think the conference games against the Browns, Bengals, and Chiefs would have been wins with a fully healthy EJ Manuel.

9-7 ? That's playoff material.

9-7 is a very good record for a rookie NFL quarterback, playing under a rookie head coach and an entirely new system.

Manuel missed a lot of time last year. From preseason to the regular season, EJ was plagued with injuries.

Take away those injuries, and extrapolate.

People can't expect a rookie QB to perform at his best after having surgery on his knee, injuring his other knee, and then injuring the same knee he had surgery on all in the same season.

I can't even perform my best at work if I have a cold.

What happened in 2013 is only going to make EJ Manuel a stronger, better quarterback.

Break a branch or two, and a tree suffers a temporary setback, but in the long run it grows back stronger than before.

You should change your name to BillsImprobable

[Goobylal]

The team (not EJ alone) would have won at least 8. The Browns, Chefs, and both Dols games. They should have won the Altanta game and arguably the first Pats game.

[TacklingDummy]

0, the ones the they did win with him were in spite of how He played.

[The Popcorn]

I'm a fan of Manuel and think he will do better than his first year. I don't get into the could of, would of, should of because none of us know what the outcome would be had he stayed healthy.

[YardRat]

Nineteen.

[feldspar]

How many games did "Mark Sanchez" win in his first two years? What did they call him again? Oh yeah, Sanchize...I never called him that, of course.

[JoeMama]

I think this question answers the biggest question of them all. (Do the Bills have a franchise QB in EJ Manuel?)

If EJ Manuel never got injured in the preseason, his notorious injury against the Browns on Thursday Night never happened and he started all 16 games in 2013, what would the Bills record have been, realistically?

I think the conference games against the Browns, Bengals, and Chiefs would have been wins with a fully healthy EJ Manuel.

9-7 ? That's playoff material.

9-7 is a very good record for a rookie NFL quarterback, playing under a rookie head coach and an entirely new system.

Manuel missed a lot of time last year. From preseason to the regular season, EJ was plagued with injuries.

Take away those injuries, and extrapolate.

People can't expect a rookie QB to perform at his best after having surgery on his knee, injuring his other knee, and then injuring the same knee he had surgery on all in the same season.

I can't even perform my best at work if I have a cold.

What happened in 2013 is only going to make EJ Manuel a stronger, better quarterback.

Break a branch or two, and a tree suffers a temporary setback, but in the long run it grows back stronger than before.

When it takes three disclaimers to sound optimistic with regard to a player's knee (shattered three times in about 3&1/2 months.)

BTW I don't like your tree analogy. Pruning branches and leaves has noting to do with EJ's medical clearance to play.

That was his rep at FSU too. A big game player who was dogged by nagging injuries all round.

So we know he has something good to know us. But you gotta be on the field to do that, and getting on the field (and remaining) is going to be EJ's greatest enemy this seasom.

[Goobylal]

EJ's knee was "shattered three times"? Can he walk?

[JoeMama]

EJ's knee was "shattered three times"? Can he walk?

How many guys have injured the same knee three times in one season and gone on to have a good career?

That's not me being down on EJ.

That's me acknowledging that physically he's probably not capable of handling the rigors of the NFL.

Example, look at Daunte Culpepper after he busted his knee twice?

Done.

And understand, I don't lay the "injury prone" label on guys unfairly.

I defended Eric Wood through years 1, 2, and 3, under the pretense they were all freak injuries.

And he ended up being just fine this season.

Nagging, re-occurring injuries are one thing. Freak injuries are another. But EJ's thrice injured knee is the kind of red flag where you start planning for his replacement ASAP.

It might hurt his feelings but you gotta do it.

[JoeMama]

BTW we won't put together a contingency plan for EJ.

We're the Bills.

[Goobylal]

How many guys have injured the same knee three times in one season and gone on to have a good career?

That's not me being down on EJ.

That's me acknowledging that physically he's probably not capable of handling the rigors of the NFL.

Example, look at Daunte Culpepper after he busted his knee twice?

Done.

And understand, I don't lay the "injury prone" label on guys unfairly.

I defended Eric Wood through years 1, 2, and 3, under the pretense they were all freak injuries.

And he ended up being just fine this season.

Nagging, re-occurring injuries are one thing. Freak injuries are another. But EJ's thrice injured knee is the kind of red flag where you start planning for his replacement ASAP.

It might hurt his feelings but you gotta do it.
It wasn't the same knee three times. The first time (in pre-season) it was the left knee. The second time (Browns game) was the right knee and was suffered after taking a helmet to it. The last one was the left knee again. The right knee isn't so concerning because it was a nasty shot. The left knee however seemed to get injured without much contact. Does it mean he's injury-prone? Not in the least but it does bear watching. And the contingency plan is Lewis.

[BuffaloRedleg]

This is like asking how many games would Trent Edwards won if he had more balls.

You can't remove the balls from the equation, just like you can't remove the injuries from the equation either.

Yep.

[Goobylal]

This is like asking how many games would Trent Edwards won if he had more balls.

You can't remove the balls from the equation, just like you can't remove the injuries from the equation either.

Yep.
Except that the major injury was self-inflicted of sorts, when EJ decided to stay in bounds rather than go out of bounds. And an injury can happen any time; having no balls is an all-the-time thing.

[JoeMama]

It wasn't the same knee three times. The first time (in pre-season) it was the left knee. The second time (Browns game) was the right knee and was suffered after taking a helmet to it. The last one was the left knee again. The right knee isn't so concerning because it was a nasty shot. The left knee however seemed to get injured without much contact. Does it mean he's injury-prone? Not in the least but it does bear watching. And the contingency plan is Lewis.

I just read through some old articles, you're right.

Injury #1 torn miniscus left knee
Injury #2 sprained right knee
Injury #3 sprained LCL left knee

Still, that's a bad pattern regardless.

The law of nature is, it's harder to stay healthy as you grow older. If he's dinged up every other month his rookie season, realistically what's his life expectancy in the NFL?

Plus, he had nagging episodes like these dating back to FSU. My family are FSU fans so I've stomached a lot more of EJ Manuel than most people.

He's highly motivated with a good work ethic and a good head on his shoulders. He shows flashes of poise and good decision-making at times. There's a lot to like. But I still insist his biggest obstacle will be his own health. Nothing mental.

[SquishDaFish]

IF he did play them all I would think we win 8 because I think he would of progressed much better over the season

[JoeMama]

I flat out think we win the Browns game if EJ stays healthy.

I bet we take the Chiefs too.

[Goobylal]

I just read through some old articles, you're right.

Injury #1 torn miniscus left knee
Injury #2 sprained right knee
Injury #3 sprained LCL left knee

Still, that's a bad pattern regardless.

The law of nature is, it's harder to stay healthy as you grow older. If he's dinged up every other month his rookie season, realistically what's his life expectancy in the NFL?

Plus, he had nagging episodes like these dating back to FSU. My family are FSU fans so I've stomached a lot more of EJ Manuel than most people.

He's highly motivated with a good work ethic and a good head on his shoulders. He shows flashes of poise and good decision-making at times. There's a lot to like. But I still insist his biggest obstacle will be his own health. Nothing mental.
There is definitely concern with the left knee getting injured repeatedly and with seemingly little contact (not sure where he hurt it in pre-season, but in the Jags game, I heard him say "ow" when a Jags defender land on him), but I can't yet label him as injury prone. I also wonder how healthy that left knee was all season since he didn't miss a lot of time and kept playing on it?

[JoeMama]

There is definitely concern with the left knee getting injured repeatedly and with seemingly little contact (not sure where he hurt it in pre-season, but in the Jags game, I heard him say "ow" when a Jags defender land on him), but I can't yet label him as injury prone. I also wonder how healthy that left knee was all season since he didn't miss a lot of time and kept playing on it?

Either way, there's talk he wears at least one, maybe two knee braces this year.

My take is, learn to get out of bounds or stick with the notion of being a pocket passer. Don't run around on those gimpy knees.

[Goobylal]

I flat out think we win the Browns game if EJ stays healthy.

I bet we take the Chiefs too.
Yep, and I say both Dols games as well since Lewis wasn't exactly lighting either game up. And again, they should have won the Atlanta game.

- - - Updated - - -


Either way, there's talk he wears at least one, maybe two knee braces this year.

My take is, learn to get out of bounds or stick with the notion of being a pocket passer. Don't run around on those gimpy knees.
Yeah, I think the knee brace is a good idea. And I don't think he'll take unnecessary hits like that again.

[swiper]

Yeah, I think the knee brace is a good idea. And I don't think he'll take unnecessary hits like that again.

Great. That makes him an immobile black QB with poor passing skills. Just the ticket.

[BillsFever21]

Great. That makes him an immobile black QB with poor passing skills. Just the ticket.

When people are talking about a 23 year old QB in his 2nd year needing to protect his gimpy knees that is never a good sign. Lets hope it was just an anomaly.

[YardRat]

Either way, there's talk he wears at least one, maybe two knee braces this year.

My take is, learn to get out of bounds or stick with the notion of being a pocket passer. Don't run around on those gimpy knees.

He absolutely should wear braces, and it shouldn't inhibit his overall game that much. He has some nice mobility when necessary, but it's not like he's a Wilson or Kaepernick.

[YardRat]

When people are talking about a 23 year old QB in his 2nd year needing to protect his gimpy knees that is never a good sign. Lets hope it was just an anomaly.

I'm certainly not comparing the two in any manner, but one of the knocks for Marino coming out of college and most probably a reason he lasted until Miami was bad knees.

[Goobylal]

Great. That makes him an immobile black QB with poor passing skills. Just the ticket.
Your crusade is tired.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Except that the major injury was self-inflicted of sorts, when EJ decided to stay in bounds rather than go out of bounds. And an injury can happen any time; having no balls is an all-the-time thing.

You clearly missed the point of my post, which I thought was pretty clear.

Injuring the same body part multiple times is not just a random occurrence, that is a pattern. That is a part of who EJ is as a player, just like having no balls is a part of who Trent was as a player.

You can't separate that integral aspect of the player when evaluating him, and it's silly to "what if" that thing wasn't the case.

I hope I'm wrong about EJ, but to me right now the injuries are every part of who EJ is as a QB as his great character and strong arm.

[swiper]

Your crusade is tired.

I guess I should wait until September to remind you how many times he overthrew, underthrew, threw behind or threw to the cheerleaders. 6 - 10 again.

[Goobylal]

You clearly missed the point of my post, which I thought was pretty clear.

Injuring the same body part multiple times is not just a random occurrence, that is a pattern. That is a part of who EJ is as a player, just like having no balls is a part of who Trent was as a player.

You can't separate that integral aspect of the player when evaluating him, and it's silly to "what if" that thing wasn't the case.

I hope I'm wrong about EJ, but to me right now the injuries are every part of who EJ is as a QB as his great character and strong arm.
Again he had an injury to one leg, didn't have surgery and then re-injured it later. He had surgery. The other knee was from a bad decision on his part which he won't make again. The injuries happened but they aren't "every part of who EJ is as a QB." That's just silly.

I guess I should wait until September to remind you how many times he overthrew, underthrew, threw behind or threw to the cheerleaders. 6 - 10 again.
Yes, please do. Because the rest of the offense was amazing.

[justasportsfan]

0, the ones the they did win with him were in spite of how He played.

this is as quesrionable as the OP thinking we would have made playoffs if EJ was healthy all season long.

[WagonCircler]

This is like asking how many games would Trent Edwards won if he had more balls.

I disagree.

There's a logical fallacy inherent in that question.


In order to answer fairly, Trent would have at least had to start with some balls. Even tiny bb's.

But he didn't even have molecules.

[Goobylal]

I disagree.

There's a logical fallacy inherent in that question.


In order to answer fairly, Trent would have at least had to start with some balls. Even tiny bb's.

But he didn't even have molecules.
I think he did. Before the Adrian Wilson hit.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

7. The problem with these kinds of threads is they only "what if" the good scenarios, as in all his missed games would've been good performances had he been healthy. That's intellectually dishonest and doesn't really factor in the fact that he'd go through growing pains as well.

Yeah, we won some games where he played horribly (Baltimore) and then lost some games where he played well (Atlanta).

It also assumes defenses would have played Manuel the same way they played Tuel or Lewis, which we don't know to be true.

[feldspar]

I disagree.

There's a logical fallacy inherent in that question.


In order to answer fairly, Trent would have at least had to start with some balls. Even tiny bb's.

But he didn't even have molecules.

That's not really fair unless you are saying it in a relative way.

It takes quite large balls to even be an NFL quarterback at all, especially a starter. That takes a hell of a lot of balls, I would think.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I think if he had stayed in against Cleveland we would have won that, same may be true of the Bengals game, and anyone could have beaten the Chiefs except tuelbag.

[stuckincincy]

I think if he had stayed in against Cleveland we would have won that, same may be true of the Bengals game, and anyone could have beaten the Chiefs except tuelbag.

CLE lost QB Hoyer 3 and a half minutes into the game. When Manuel went out in early 3rd, the game was tied but BUF was on CLE's 27 and they soon scored to go up 24 - 17. Then O.C. panic set in...calling 20 (!) pass plays with Tuel.

In the CIN game, they were outgained 483 to 322, and lost TOP 37:41 to 22:19. CIN had a 3rd qtr fg wiped out by penalty. Lewis took advantage of two blown coverages by CIN to tie it and go into OT, with a 29 yd punt return setting up a fg for the 3 point loss.

[The Jokeman]

CLE lost QB Hoyer 3 and a half minutes into the game. When Manuel went out in early 3rd, the game was tied but BUF was on CLE's 27 and they soon scored to go up 24 - 17. Then O.C. panic set in...calling 20 (!) pass plays with Tuel.

In the CIN game, they were outgained 483 to 322, and lost TOP 37:41 to 22:19. CIN had a 3rd qtr fg wiped out by penalty. Lewis took advantage of two blown coverages by CIN to tie it and go into OT, with a 29 yd punt return setting up a fg for the 3 point loss.
I'll agree that the Bills would have won that Browns game if EJ stayed in the game. As you could feel the momentum changing just before he got hurt. I also feel that Tuel was horrible in the KC game and think if we had a more NFL ready QB (including Manuel or Lewis) we likely would have one that game. I was at the Bengals game and one thing a lot of people forget is we left points in the board in regulation when Lewis was tackled on 4th and 1 from the 1. I'm not sure if Manuel could have won us that game but had Lewis found a way to get that ball into the endzone that game had a chance to be something different. We all know what happened against Atlanta. Honestly I think a healthy Manuel for the season could have lead to 2 or maybe 3 more wins. Ej has to stay healthy throughout training camp too as losing preseason game action cost him some developmental time he needed. I think as long as our D doesn't take a step back we have a good chance to improve this season with a healthier/more experienced Manuel in 2014. Yet I still like to find some help at positions I really think need some veteran help in specially WR. TE is another position I'd like to take a chance on someone like Owen Daniels or even Jermichael Finley. As at the very least they'll be some added competition as not sure Tony Moeaki is the answer as his NFL career is much like his college one. He shows great promise but an inability to stay healthy is costing him time.