The Bills will go into a trust

[X-Era]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/whats-next-for-the-bills-for-now-the-team-will-be-controlled-by-a-trust-20140325

Basically says the Bills are here for at least a few more years. Brings up Golisano and Pegula who both have stated they will step in and get involved if the team looks like it's in danger of moving. Mentions Kelly who is rumored to have a group to step up and buy the team.

States that the penalty for an early move out of Buffalo is 400 mill plus a relocation fee set by the NFL that could be 200 mill.

Littman and others may be executors of the estate:

"Long-time Bills treasurer Jeffrey C. Littmann is one of the executors of Wilson’s estate, and he will be part of the decision-making team in charge of overseeing the sale of the team. It’s believed there are one or two other executors in addition to Littmann."

[Pinkerton Security]

Solid, fact-filled article. Maybe I'm being optimistic but I feel that more likely than not, the Bills will stay in Buffalo, for many of the reasons listed in the article.

[YardRat]

I would hope neither Pegula's or Golisano's involvement is necessary.

[trapezeus]

still doesn't sound great, but that new lease deal bought us a lot of time. as much as i hate brandon's meddlesome ways with the personnel, that lease was huge. if they didn't hvae that today, the bidding war would have started tomorrow and the team could have left on a van before the season started.

brandon does deserve credit for getting that done.

- - - Updated - - -


I would hope neither Pegula's or Golisano's involvement is necessary.

afraid of darcy getting rehired!

[Skooby]

This is huge, gives the team time to get organized & get a stadium in line.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Solid, fact-filled article. Maybe I'm being optimistic but I feel that more likely than not, the Bills will stay in Buffalo, for many of the reasons listed in the article.
I agree. Nice article not just a bunch of speculations.

[jimmifli]

still doesn't sound great, but that new lease deal bought us a lot of time. as much as i hate brandon's meddlesome ways with the personnel, that lease was huge. if they didn't hvae that today, the bidding war would have started tomorrow and the team could have left on a van before the season started.

brandon does deserve credit for getting that done.
That's a little generous.

It's not like Russ was arguing to get a big penalty claus added. All he had to do was agree to it, even then it came with big money attached.

"Sure... if you throw in $130 million of tax payers money to benefit my private for profit business that is owned by a billionaire, I'll agree that if we try to skip town early we'll pay you a bunch of money."

[X-Era]

Personally I don't think dropping 600 mill extra just to move the team before 2020 is anything to be overlooked. I mean if the team ends up selling for 1 billion you're talking about paying a 60% premium just to move it before 2020.

[coastal]

To me the out clause looks timed to allow LA to get their act together on a stadium.

[trapezeus]

That's a little generous.

It's not like Russ was arguing to get a big penalty claus added. All he had to do was agree to it, even then it came with big money attached.

"Sure... if you throw in $130 million of tax payers money to benefit my private for profit business that is owned by a billionaire, I'll agree that if we try to skip town early we'll pay you a bunch of money."

totally true, but he could have also said, "why sign anything. the guy is going to pass away, and we can sell this to anyone and not have the burden of a 7 year lease on there." That would have been the greedier thing to do. and with ralph being as old as he was, it probably was the more profitable move for them.

I truly dislike everything about the Russ Regime, but i'm willing to give him credit for that.

[DetDannyWilliams]

don't forget about Bob Rich owner of the Buffalo Bisons he has approached RW amount of times about him talking about buying the Bills and he has always wanted the Bills, Also Jeremy Jacobs Sports Service owner and Boston Bruins owner has said he has interest in the Bills but for Jacobs to become owner of the Bills he would have to give up the Bruins.

[jimmifli]

"why sign anything. the guy is going to pass away, and we can sell this to anyone and not have the burden of a 7 year lease on there."
Ralph wanted the team in Buffalo until his death.

The stadium needed renos, and letting the lease run out would have caused a huge **** storm at the NFL offices. They got a cheap deal on rent, a bunch of free money and still managed to get an out clause that fits well with the sale of the team.

The new owner will have government by the balls - "new stadium or we leave", that REALLY increases the value of the franchise at sale. He got the best of both worlds. The team stays, he gets near maximum for a Buffalo based NFL franchise, and gives the new owner some bargaining power to potentially keep the team here (if state and local governments give hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire).

[SpikedLemonade]

It is unfolding as I said it would.

This will take time and the Bills are not leaving any time soon.

The 7th year clause will put pressure on a new stadium being built with tax dollars.

The team will not be moved before then to face a huge penalty.

Can I ask only one question -- to those who always insisted that Ralph must have a secret plan for the succession of the Bills to remain in Buffalo, will you please admit you were wrong all along?

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

To me the out clause looks timed to allow LA to get their act together on a stadium.

What Ralph wants out of an LA stadium is a seller's market. I'll bet his daughters are ghost money behind an LA offer.

[BillsFever21]

We have at least seven years to try and build a winning team and make a run for a Super Bowl. How long they are here after that is anybody's guess. Does all them same people wish we still let our good players walk for years so we would never be in cap hell but in return be stuck in mediocrity?

[Crisis]

When has Pegula said anything about buying the Bills? Anyone have a source?

[black N yellow]

if whoever buys this team to keep it in Buffalo includes Larry Quinn, just let em move.

[X-Era]

When has Pegula said anything about buying the Bills? Anyone have a source?It's in the article:

"One potential buyer is Sabres owner Terry Pegula. He has a net worth of about $3.1 billion, according to Forbes Magazine. Pegula has stated he might step in if it looked like the team was in danger of moving."

[SpikedLemonade]

It's in the article:

"One potential buyer is Sabres owner Terry Pegula. He has a net worth of about $3.1 billion, according to Forbes Magazine. Pegula has stated he might step in if it looked like the team was in danger of moving."

Does that sound like much of a commitment or burning interest to you?

[X-Era]

Does that sound like much of a commitment or burning interest to you?Commitments come in the form of signing on the dotted line. Burning interest? Ralph passed away today so who knows how much interest he has. I think we'll hear more in the coming months.

[Downinfloflo]

I don't think Pegula is an option.

Either the NFL or NHL (Not sure which one) has a policy that does not allow an owner to have another pro sports team in the same city.

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't think Pegula is an option.

Either the NFL or NHL (Not sure which one) has a policy that does not allow an owner to have another pro sports team in the same city.

Wrong. They're not allowed to have teams in opposite cities.

[SpikedLemonade]

Wrong. They're not allowed to have teams in opposite cities.

That's right.

That is why Jeremy Jacobs would need to sell a successful Bruins franchise looked in wealthy Boston in order to purchase a loser Bills franchise in _____ Buffalo.

Ain't going to happen.

[Dr. Lecter]

That's right.

That is why Jeremy Jacobs would need to sell a successful Bruins franchise looked in wealthy Boston in order to purchase a loser Bills franchise in _____ Buffalo.

Ain't going to happen.


I don't think he will sell them either, but the least successful NFL franchise is worth a lot more and more profitable than the most successful NHL franchise.

[SpikedLemonade]

I don't think he will sell them either, but the least successful NFL franchise is worth a lot more and more profitable than the most successful NHL franchise.

Oh I agree and understand that -- the Leafs would be the closest. The TV contracts make it so.

[kishoph]

That's right.

That is why Jeremy Jacobs would need to sell a successful Bruins franchise looked in wealthy Boston in order to purchase a loser Bills franchise in _____ Buffalo.

Ain't going to happen.

All Jacobs would have to do is make his son the principle owner and he wouldn't have to touch the Bruins.

[Oldbillsfan]

It's a real shame Ralph didn't have a succession plan to keep the team where they are. If they are moved his legacy is severely tarnished.

[better days]

So, exactly what I have been saying for a LONG time now on this board about the Bills after Ralph passed.

And as I have also said, Bob Rich & his friends view the Bills as a cultural asset to WNY & will do EVERYTHING in their power to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

[better days]

I don't think Pegula is an option.

Either the NFL or NHL (Not sure which one) has a policy that does not allow an owner to have another pro sports team in the same city.

No, the NFL does not allow an owner to own another team in DIFFERENT Cities.

[Downinfloflo]

No, the NFL does not allow an owner to own another team in DIFFERENT Cities.

OK...So count Pegula out since he won't be able to move the team.

The Bills days are numbered folks, Ralph was the ONLY reason they never moved, And now that security blanket is gone.

[Skooby]

OK...So count Pegula out since he won't be able to move the team.

The Bills days are numbered folks, Ralph was the ONLY reason they never moved, And now that security blanket is gone.

Probably not, more acid ?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

OK...So count Pegula out since he won't be able to move the team.

Huh?


No, the NFL does not allow an owner to own another team in DIFFERENT Cities.

Specifically, the NFL doesn't allow the owner to have another team in a different NFL market. Paul Allen can own the Trailblazers and Seahawks because Portland is not an NFL city. Kroenke had to pull shenanigans to own the Rams and Avalanche because Denver is an NFL city.

[YardRat]

Not saying it is so, but the team being put into a trust upon Ralph's death doesn't exclude the possibility of an ownership group and/or agreement already being in place, with the sale of the team to be executed when the dust settles from the financials and legals of the estate. Of course the team is going to be sold, we've known that to be a given for many years...to who, how, and when still is an unknown.

[Pinkerton Security]

totally true, but he could have also said, "why sign anything. the guy is going to pass away, and we can sell this to anyone and not have the burden of a 7 year lease on there." That would have been the greedier thing to do. and with ralph being as old as he was, it probably was the more profitable move for them.

I truly dislike everything about the Russ Regime, but i'm willing to give him credit for that.

you know when this guy is praising the Front office for something, its gotta be legit lol

[trapezeus]

It is unfolding as I said it would.

This will take time and the Bills are not leaving any time soon.

The 7th year clause will put pressure on a new stadium being built with tax dollars.

The team will not be moved before then to face a huge penalty.

Can I ask only one question -- to those who always insisted that Ralph must have a secret plan for the succession of the Bills to remain in Buffalo, will you please admit you were wrong all along?

I've never been big on secret plan, but now that he's passed away, the chatter is that there is something longer term set out. So for the people who always pitched the secret plan idea, i don't think they should admit they were wrong when nothing is clear as to what exactly will happen.

i think you're layout of what will happen makes a lot of sense if there is no plan.

[gebobs]

don't forget about Bob Rich owner of the Buffalo Bisons he has approached RW amount of times about him talking about buying the Bills and he has always wanted the Bills, Also Jeremy Jacobs Sports Service owner and Boston Bruins owner has said he has interest in the Bills but for Jacobs to become owner of the Bills he would have to give up the Bruins.
I wouldn't trust Jacobs any further than I could throw him.

Bob Rich on the other hand. Absolutely. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Buffalo boy.

[sukie]

I wouldn't trust Jacobs any further than I could throw him.

Bob Rich on the other hand. Absolutely. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Buffalo boy.

Speaking of Bob Rich. When the stadium was called Rich Stadium. Was that the first corporate sponsorship of a pro stadium? Anyone know?

[gebobs]

Speaking of Bob Rich. When the stadium was called Rich Stadium. Was that the first corporate sponsorship of a pro stadium? Anyone know?

Fenway Park, 1912, Boston (stadium was owned by John Tyler, the owner of Fenway Realty)
Wrigley Field, 1926, Chicago
Busch Stadium, St. Louis, 1954

In the NFL, I believe the first was in 1971...Schaefer Stadium, later Foxboro Stadium, home of the Patsies. If I'm not mistaken, Rich Stadium was next.

[PromoTheRobot]

To me the out clause looks timed to allow LA to get their act together on a stadium.

There are three other franchises: the Rams, Raiders and Chargers, that are more free of impediments than the Bills right now. Plus the Rams owner bought land in downtown L.A. big enough for a stadium. No one is waiting 7 years for the Bills to shake lose.

[PromoTheRobot]

I wouldn't trust Jacobs any further than I could throw him.

Bob Rich on the other hand. Absolutely. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Buffalo boy.

Bob Rich really doesn't have the money to pull it off. Look at the charade he put on during MLB expansion. Rich was offered the Expos for $190 million and said no.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

There are three other franchises: the Rams, Raiders and Chargers, that are more free of impediments than the Bills right now. Plus the Rams owner bought land in downtown L.A. big enough for a stadium. No one is waiting 7 years for the Bills to shake lose.

what's ironic is that those three franchises have already left LA before. lol

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't think Pegula is an option.

Either the NFL or NHL (Not sure which one) has a policy that does not allow an owner to have another pro sports team in the same city.

You have it backwards. The NFL does allow an owner to own two teams in the same market, or one in a non-NFL market. So Pegula can own the Bills.

[SpikedLemonade]

I do not see the Bills moving to LA or Toronto.

There won't be a move if ever for another 7 years.

The threats are more like London or San Antonio.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's a real shame Ralph didn't have a succession plan to keep the team where they are. If they are moved his legacy is severely tarnished.

He did make a succession plan: put the team in trust, get a new lease, and sell the team.

[Ed]

Huh?



Specifically, the NFL doesn't allow the owner to have another team in a different NFL market. Paul Allen can own the Trailblazers and Seahawks because Portland is not an NFL city. Kroenke had to pull shenanigans to own the Rams and Avalanche because Denver is an NFL city.
I was going to say, the Kroenke's own the Rams in St. Louis and the Nuggets and Avalanche here in Denver. That made me think that that rule doesn't apply anymore, but I don't know the details of the Kroenke ownership. Is it that the Avs and Nuggets are technicall owned by one of the sons and the father owns the Rams?

Regarding Pegula, I read an article a while back that said it was important to him that the Bills remain in Buffalo and that he had become a big Bills fan because of his wife. I think hockey is his first love, so he may not be interested in taking over as a majority owner of an NFL team too, but I could see him being a part owner and providing the financial backing to keep the team here.

[jimmifli]

Bob Rich really doesn't have the money to pull it off. Look at the charade he put on during MLB expansion. Rich was offered the Expos for $190 million and said no.
$190 million for a franchise that loses tons of money every year, in a sport with no shared revenue, in a city with terrible financial problems? Sounds shrewed.

Compared to a franchise that because of the TV deals is guaranteed to be profitable, it's a different kettle of fish.

Having said that, a $3 billion networth that is completely tied up in a private family owned business would put him in the bottom half of NFL owners. Not impossible, but it might be a financial stretch. Who knows what covenants he's got on his shares, he might not be able to borrow against them.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I was going to say, the Kroenke's own the Rams in St. Louis and the Nuggets and Avalanche here in Denver. That made me think that that rule doesn't apply anymore, but I don't know the details of the Kroenke ownership. Is it that the Avs and Nuggets are technicall owned by one of the sons and the father owns the Rams?

It's something like that, I think. He transferred ownership legally to a family member.

[Dozerdog]

Let's not fool ourselves on the $400 million penalty to break a lease early

The Bills were valued at $800 Million, they could sell at a higher price if a deep pocket city (LA) gets involved. New Stadium goes for $800 million, unless LA wants to go the Jerry Jones route and spend up to $1.3 Billion for an over - the - top super stadium. At $2 Billion invested for team and stadium, $400 million wont hold up anyone.

What the death of Wilson does accomplish though, is create a "sense of urgency" for other teams lukewarm on staying where they want. Does the owner of Jacksonville Jaguars/ Rams/Raiders/ Chargers want their golden opportunity to pass them by? It may accelerate one of those teams moving sooner than later so that the future owner of the Bills doesn't grab the LA market out from under them.

[stuckincincy]

It's something like that, I think. He transferred ownership legally to a family member.

Some history: B'gals owner Brown vs. IRS:

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1996/It-s-Mike-Brown-Versus-the-IRS/id-80e0df70275854b5093c8a55eac2a324

http://bengals.enquirer.com/043097_bengbrown.html

[better days]

Bob Rich said he AND his friends would do everything in their power to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

I doubt Rich would buy the Bills by himself.

[Oldbillsfan]

He did make a succession plan: put the team in trust, get a new lease, and sell the team.

If that was the plan to keep the Bills where they are, I would say chances of them staying in Orchard Park are less than 40%

[Bill Cody]

One thing this article does not bring up but seems like it would be critical: estate taxes. Estate taxes are due 9 months after someone dies. 9 months. Not a year, not 2 years, 9 months. And whatever estate planning Wilson did, whatever other assets he had, it seems pretty far fetched to me that he's going to have somewhere around $300m available to pay Uncle Sam without selling the team. Think about it. Unless his wife is still living. is she?

[stuckincincy]

The BUF market may not be the most profitable but it is far up there in fan support.

The NFL is well aware, in fact excellent, at promoting their brand. The Bills are a substantial part of that. They know what local support means...the former LA Raiders and its' fate stand our as an example.

I wouldn't worry about the franchise leaving.

[better days]

One thing this article does not bring up but seems like it would be critical: estate taxes. Estate taxes are due 9 months after someone dies. 9 months. Not a year, not 2 years, 9 months. And whatever estate planning Wilson did, whatever other assets he had, it seems pretty far fetched to me that he's going to have somewhere around $300m available to pay Uncle Sam without selling the team. Think about it. Unless his wife is still living. is she?

Yes, his wife is still alive & the Bills are being held in trust.

That most likely affects any taxes owed.

Ralph was a smart man, I'm sure he had this thing figured out long ago.

[stuckincincy]

One thing this article does not bring up but seems like it would be critical: estate taxes. Estate taxes are due 9 months after someone dies. 9 months. Not a year, not 2 years, 9 months. And whatever estate planning Wilson did, whatever other assets he had, it seems pretty far fetched to me that he's going to have somewhere around $300m available to pay Uncle Sam without selling the team. Think about it. Unless his wife is still living. is she?

See my previous post. Brown and Wilson were men akin - I'm sure they passed info to each other.

[SpikedLemonade]

Bob Rich said he AND his friends would do everything in their power to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

Talk is cheap and fools like you will believe it.

[SpikedLemonade]

One thing this article does not bring up but seems like it would be critical: estate taxes. Estate taxes are due 9 months after someone dies. 9 months. Not a year, not 2 years, 9 months. And whatever estate planning Wilson did, whatever other assets he had, it seems pretty far fetched to me that he's going to have somewhere around $300m available to pay Uncle Sam without selling the team. Think about it. Unless his wife is still living. is she?

Yes, his wife Mary is still alive but Ralph said long ago that she was not interested in owning the Bills (nor his remaining living daughters) so he will not be leaving them to her.

I am not sure of the timing of when estate taxes are due, but it is true that Ralph's business financial success in life is the Bills where he put down $25K in 1960 that is now worth over $800M. Outside of the Bills he was not as financially successful so he does not have a net worth of billions and billions like other NFL owners. There is not enough money in the estate to sell everything but the Bills to pay the estate tax. It is this fact that I believe is why he was quiet about a succession plan i.e., he didn't want the public to know that his financial success was limited to the Bills.

The most important aspect of the Bills being part of an estate auction is that the Bills must be sold to the highest bidder that is acceptable to the NFL owners. In other words, if a local owner was to offer less for the Bills than a non-local owner, the estate would have to accept the higher offer assuming the NFL owners would approve the sale. There will be no "home team" discount.

[X-Era]

Yes, his wife Mary is still alive but Ralph said long ago that she was not interested in owning the Bills (nor his remaining living daughters) so he will not be leaving them to her.

I am not sure of the timing of when estate taxes are due, but it is true that Ralph's business financial success in life is the Bills where he put down $25K in 1960 that is now worth over $800M. Outside of the Bills he was not as financially successful so he does not have a net worth of billions and billions like other NFL owners. There is not enough money in the estate to sell everything but the Bills to pay the estate tax. It is this fact that I believe is why he was quiet about a succession plan i.e., he didn't want the public to know that his financial success was limited to the Bills.

The most important aspect of the Bills being part of an estate auction is that the Bills must be sold to the highest bidder that is acceptable to the NFL owners. In other words, if a local owner was to offer less for the Bills than a non-local owner, the estate would have to accept the higher offer assuming the NFL owners would approve the sale. There will be no "home team" discount.And none of us knows who or what anyone is willing to pay whether local or to move the team.

But if someone local buys the team they do in fact get a hometown discount of around 600 mill if they buy it before 2020. Any team buying the team and moving it will pay 400 mill penalty and maybe 200 mill relocation fee determined by the NFL owners according to the article. I realize it's actually penalties rather than a discount but you can look at it from either angle.

So a 1.6 bill offer by someone trying to move the team is actually less of an offer than 1.1 bill to someone local keeping them here in all practicality.

That stipulation alone makes it less likely that anyone will try to buy the team to move it until after 2020 and possibly more likely that a local buyer may make an offer before 2020 IMO.

[SpikedLemonade]

And none of us knows who or what anyone is willing to pay whether local or to move the team.

But if someone local buys the team they do in fact get a hometown discount of around 600 mill if they buy it before 2020. Any team buying the team and moving it will pay 400 mill penalty and maybe 200 mill relocation fee determined by the NFL owners according to the article. I realize it's actually penalties rather than a discount but you can look at it from either angle.

So a 1.6 bill offer by someone trying to move the team is actually less of an offer than 1.1 bill to someone local keeping them here in all practicality.

That stipulation alone makes it less likely that anyone will try to buy the team to move it until after 2020 and possibly more likely that a local buyer may make an offer before 2020 IMO.

Sure. That was obvious I would have thought. No one is moving the team as long as there is a $400M penalty.

The sale will probably take 2+ years to complete. Whoever purchases it -- local or not -- will need to wait until that 2020 window if they wish to relocate the team.

So the $400M penalty is irrelevant than and what remains would be a relocation fee to the NFL that could be any amount the NFL owners can get. If the relocation was to LA, the NFL owners will want a much larger relocation fee than if the team was moved some where else. Basically, the relocation fee is for the other owners to share in the bump in value that the team would be worth in another location.

What we as fans should be rooting for is not a local owner who is barely able to afford the team but a very rich owner who is willing to invest in the team and is so rich he does not need to make a lot of money from the team remaining in Buffalo.

[Bill Cody]

Yes, his wife Mary is still alive but Ralph said long ago that she was not interested in owning the Bills (nor his remaining living daughters) so he will not be leaving them to her.

I am not sure of the timing of when estate taxes are due, but it is true that Ralph's business financial success in life is the Bills where he put down $25K in 1960 that is now worth over $800M. Outside of the Bills he was not as financially successful so he does not have a net worth of billions and billions like other NFL owners. There is not enough money in the estate to sell everything but the Bills to pay the estate tax. It is this fact that I believe is why he was quiet about a succession plan i.e., he didn't want the public to know that his financial success was limited to the Bills.

The most important aspect of the Bills being part of an estate auction is that the Bills must be sold to the highest bidder that is acceptable to the NFL owners. In other words, if a local owner was to offer less for the Bills than a non-local owner, the estate would have to accept the higher offer assuming the NFL owners would approve the sale. There will be no "home team" discount.

ok well if his wife is alive that's a different kettle of fish entirely. Whethe the team is held in trust or not, Wilson can take advantage of the "unlimited marital deduction" which allows him to make his wife he primary beneficiary of his estate and defer estate taxes until she dies. So basically there's no estate tax issue right now.

[Bill Cody]

In effect Ralph would be leaving the team to his wife, she just would not be managing the team. That's what the trust is for. But if you could look into the details of the trust you'd see the wife was the beneficiary, it only makes sense. Otherwise that bill of 300 very large would be due in 9 months.

[better days]

Talk is cheap and fools like you will believe it.

You're the fool that said the Bills would be playing in LA by NOW!

[SpikedLemonade]

You're the fool that said the Bills would be playing in LA by NOW!

I never said that.

I would put you on ignore but I just enjoy reading the wishful thinking of a child in the body of a middle aged man.

[better days]

I never said that.

I would put you on ignore but I just enjoy reading the wishful thinking of a child in the body of a middle aged man.

You said a Stadium would be built in LA within a year.................a few years ago & that the Bills or another team would be playing there before 2014.

[SpikedLemonade]

You said a Stadium would be built in LA within a year.................a few years ago & that the Bills or another team would be playing there before 2014.

Look at my join date dumbazz. I wasn't even here 18 months ago.

[gebobs]

Bob Rich really doesn't have the money to pull it off. Look at the charade he put on during MLB expansion. Rich was offered the Expos for $190 million and said no.

At any rate, what happened might not translate to not being willing or able now.

Maybe it wasn't because he didn't have the cabbage. Perhaps they did cost benefit back then and it didn't pan out, whether they were right or wrong.

Maybe the Expos poisoned the deal.

Maybe, just maybe, the offer was half-hearted or even overblown. In the end, the team sold for $450 million. I don't ever recall the offer being on the table for his taking.

Maybe didn't have the money then but has that kind of scratch now.

Maybe he likes football better (who doesn't). Maybe he thinks the revenue stream is better.

[better days]

Look at my join date dumbazz. I wasn't even here 18 months ago.

I apologize to you if I mistook you for a different fool.

[swiper]

For anyone with questions about Mr. Wilson's trust/plans the Buffalo News has a very good article about it:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/erie-county/taxes-likely-played-a-role-in-wilsons-decisions-about-the-bills-20140326

[SpikedLemonade]

For anyone with questions about Mr. Wilson's trust/plans the Buffalo News has a very good article about it:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/erie-county/taxes-likely-played-a-role-in-wilsons-decisions-about-the-bills-20140326

The article explains nicely why Ralph did not sell the team...

"Ralph C. Wilson Jr. was adamant that he wanted to remain the sole owner of the Buffalo Bills while he was alive, and he was passionate about keeping the team in town.

But he also may have had a financial incentive for not selling the NFL franchise before his death Tuesday.

If Wilson had sold the team while he was alive, he might have had to pay income taxes based on the profit from his 1959 investment of just $25,000. The team is valued at $870 million.

When the team is sold now, however, his heirs or estate would likely pay capital gains taxes based on the difference between the value of the team at the time of his death and the eventual sale price.

The capital gains taxes are separate from estate taxes – another factor that could have affected any decision about the team.

“We normally tell people like Ralph Wilson, ‘Do not sell the team if you’re getting old because the appreciation is tremendous,’” said Daniel S. Hoops, an attorney who specializes in estate planning and is a professor at Walsh College in Michigan, where Wilson’s estate is likely to be settled....."

[Bill Cody]

The article explains nicely why Ralph did not sell the team...

"Ralph C. Wilson Jr. was adamant that he wanted to remain the sole owner of the Buffalo Bills while he was alive, and he was passionate about keeping the team in town.

But he also may have had a financial incentive for not selling the NFL franchise before his death Tuesday.

If Wilson had sold the team while he was alive, he might have had to pay income taxes based on the profit from his 1959 investment of just $25,000. The team is valued at $870 million.

When the team is sold now, however, his heirs or estate would likely pay capital gains taxes based on the difference between the value of the team at the time of his death and the eventual sale price.

The capital gains taxes are separate from estate taxes – another factor that could have affected any decision about the team.

“We normally tell people like Ralph Wilson, ‘Do not sell the team if you’re getting old because the appreciation is tremendous,’” said Daniel S. Hoops, an attorney who specializes in estate planning and is a professor at Walsh College in Michigan, where Wilson’s estate is likely to be settled....."




Ok that makes sense, as far as it goes. But he still could have made a deal with a local group to be completed after his death if keeping the team in Buffalo was a top priority. It wasn't.

[SpikedLemonade]

Ok that makes sense, as far as it goes. But he still could have made a deal with a local group to be completed after his death if keeping the team in Buffalo was a top priority. It wasn't.

No it wasn't. Ralph did not feel he owed the Buffalo area anything. They owed him.

Ralph set it up so his family can get the highest price possible for the Bills which may include getting a higher price if the team can be relocated.

[DraftBoy]

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here that a sale is going to take at least a year if not two to complete so that raises the question about how the Bills operate financially for the short term future. Is Littman as the executor the sole decider of what we can pay for FA's or on any contracts? Does he get to decided signing bonuses?

Those are the questions I'm more eager to find answers to then who the next owner will be.

[SpikedLemonade]

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here that a sale is going to take at least a year if not two to complete so that raises the question about how the Bills operate financially for the short term future. Is Littman as the executor the sole decider of what we can pay for FA's or on any contracts? Does he get to decided signing bonuses?

Those are the questions I'm more eager to find answers to then who the next owner will be.

The more power Littman has -- and he has more now -- the worse news for the Bills.

[chernobylwraiths]

Speaking of Bob Rich. When the stadium was called Rich Stadium. Was that the first corporate sponsorship of a pro stadium? Anyone know?

I believe his company WAS the first to pay money (3 million for 25 years?) to have the stadium named after them.

[swiper]

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here that a sale is going to take at least a year if not two to complete so that raises the question about how the Bills operate financially for the short term future. Is Littman as the executor the sole decider of what we can pay for FA's or on any contracts? Does he get to decided signing bonuses?

Those are the questions I'm more eager to find answers to then who the next owner will be.

I thought that Littman was not the sole executor.

[cookie G]

The article explains nicely why Ralph did not sell the team...

"Ralph C. Wilson Jr. was adamant that he wanted to remain the sole owner of the Buffalo Bills while he was alive, and he was passionate about keeping the team in town.

But he also may have had a financial incentive for not selling the NFL franchise before his death Tuesday.

If Wilson had sold the team while he was alive, he might have had to pay income taxes based on the profit from his 1959 investment of just $25,000. The team is valued at $870 million.

When the team is sold now, however, his heirs or estate would likely pay capital gains taxes based on the difference between the value of the team at the time of his death and the eventual sale price.

The capital gains taxes are separate from estate taxes – another factor that could have affected any decision about the team.

“We normally tell people like Ralph Wilson, ‘Do not sell the team if you’re getting old because the appreciation is tremendous,’” said Daniel S. Hoops, an attorney who specializes in estate planning and is a professor at Walsh College in Michigan, where Wilson’s estate is likely to be settled....."




Well, yes and No...As it is with anything involving estate planning..there are so many factors, both financial and personal, at play here.

Yes...he would have paid a capital gains tax on any portion of the team he sold.

But...for most the 21st century, the capital gains tax was 15%, as compared to an estate tax ranging from 35% to 40% over the same time period. And of course, at his advanced age, the estate tax was going to happen sooner rather than later.

Financially, it might have made sense to sell the team earlier, suck up the 15% CGT and reinvest the residue.

You could argue that the team is an appreciable asset (which it certainly has been, especially over the past decade), but would it appreciate enough to overcome a higher tax rate?

You also have to factor in how much of a marital deduction is going to be taken. In dollar terms, it will be substantial. In terms of percentage of the estate, I'm not so sure. I doubt she gets it all, or wants it all. And as any estate planner knows, the marital deduction is great, but it is a temporary fix. He could leave everything to her..basically tax free..but when she dies..you now have a billion dollar estate in her name...with no marital deduction.

I'm sure a good portion of this trust covers what she gets, (mostly in trust), how much of the corpus she can invade, the nature of any power of appointment she would have, etc. etc.

But anyway..back to the original point...

He very well been a person who said.."the IRS isn't getting any of this until I die".

But I suspect...and just guessing...it comes down to one thing.

He was what 99.99999% of this board and 98.5 % of all sports fans would love to be..the owner of a professional sports franchise.

When he bought the Bills, it was no more than a side venture, a fun hobby. At the time at least, he had far more profitable ventures, and businesses that had far more capital invested. But he gained the privileges of being a sports team owner. He got an owner's box...he got to go to training camp and hear professional athletes say things like "the boss is here"...he got to hang out in the warroom on draft day and even got to make the pics sometimes.

He had a real life fantasy team wayyy before there was such a thing as a fantasy team.

He was doubly lucky that his toy, his professional franchise was so successful that it eventually overtook his other business in terms of net worth.

He never suffered the financial dire straits that would force him to sell the team. Unlike the Rooney's or the Brown's, he didn't have that child that was going to be a successor. (Possibly his predeceased daughter, but I doubt that was a given).

In the end...he loved owning an NFL team, he loved being in charge of people that were twice his size..and having them praise him. He was given the dream of the American male.

And better yet..it made money.

In the end...he wasn't going to give that up.

You wouldn't. Few of us in those cicumstances would.

[chernobylwraiths]

Bob Rich really doesn't have the money to pull it off. Look at the charade he put on during MLB expansion. Rich was offered the Expos for $190 million and said no.

Actually, I believe Rich saw the writing on the wall regarding major league baseball in Buffalo. I believe he might have thought that the support might not be there, but mostly I believe he foresaw the incredible money grab MLBB was looking for from prospective new owners. Like 90 million franchise fee and no chance of winning anything for many years. Plus with teams like the Red Sox and Yankees basically pricing very good players out of smaller markets, I think he might have thought it wasn't worth it.

And I don't believe there would be enough support for MLBB here.

[Dr. Lecter]

great post Cookie.

And, if I made add, this was compounded by the fact that this team was his life's work and his greatest accomplishment. Not just building this team but being a significant factor inbuilding the league and the sport of football. When somebody has accomplished something like that, it becomse even more difficult to step away and stop being involved in something you created and that in essence defines who and what you are.

The idea that it was simple for him just to sell the team 15 years ago is an over simplification and ignores the reality of how important this was to him and would have been important to any of us

[coastal]

I apologize to you if I mistook you for a different fool.
Translation... you're actually a troll with multiple personalities.

[Bill Cody]

In the end...he wasn't going to give that up.

You wouldn't. Few of us in those cicumstances would.

At 95? Come on man. That's the trouble with the rich in this country. Enough is NEVER enough. He invested $25k and got back $800m. An entire region is hanging on what happens to the Bills. But it really wasn't on his radar let's be honest.

[Dr. Lecter]

At 95? Come on man. That's the trouble with the rich in this country. Enough is NEVER enough. He invested $25k and got back $800m. An entire region is hanging on what happens to the Bills. But it really wasn't on his radar let's be honest.

You missed the point.

To him, it was about much more than the money and profit

[Bill Cody]

You missed the point.

To him, it was about much more than the money and profit

No no I get that. I'm just saying, at 95 do you really need to be "the man"? 95??

And even if that defines you, and you can't give it up, why not make a side deal to sell the team to a local group after you're gone? That part is PURELY about money, no?

[coastal]

Ralph knew exactly what he was doing.

If he was so focused in keeping the Bills in Buffalo, why the out?

In his death... this whole situation comes to a head at year 7 of the lease.

ralph left it unresolved for others to figure out.

Perhaps the time wasn't right for it all to be resolved, but let's not act like Ralph is taking care of WNY and the Bills place in it.

[BidsJr]

I don't quite understand how it would be possible to have an agreement to sell the team to a group after he dies, before it actually happens. First it would have to be approved by a 2/3's majority of the owners, next the pricing would have to be agreed upon. What billionaire is going to commit to a sale and a price unknown years out into the future without knowing what the economy/taxes etc. are going to do?

It would be idiotic.

Billionaires do not make those type of decisions.

[chernobylwraiths]

I don't quite understand how it would be possible to have an agreement to sell the team to a group after he dies, before it actually happens. First it would have to be approved by a 2/3's majority of the owners, next the pricing would have to be agreed upon. What billionaire is going to commit to a sale and a price unknown years out into the future without knowing what the economy/taxes etc. are going to do?

It would be idiotic.

Billionaires do not make those type of decisions.

have a deal to purchase something that has an ever increasing revenue stream? Billionares are the ONLY people that can make those kinds of decisions.

[BidsJr]

have a deal to purchase something that has an ever increasing revenue stream? Billionares are the ONLY people that can make those kinds of decisions.

Risk Ralph living 4 more years, having the dollar collapse and be on the hook for a billion dollar purchase worth 250 million?

I don't think so.

[BidsJr]

have a deal to purchase something that has an ever increasing revenue stream? Billionares are the ONLY people that can make those kinds of decisions.


Billionaire's can make those decisions. But not making them are what got most of them their money to begin with.

[Bill Cody]

The idea that it was simple for him just to sell the team 15 years ago

ok fine 15 years ago is one thing. How about 6 months ago? You know your health is failing. You know you're unable to run the team, in fact you've given that up. So how does it hurt to solicit bids with the proviso that the deal isn't finalized until you're gone? That's just pure greed and ego.

[Ed]

ok fine 15 years ago is one thing. How about 6 months ago? You know your health is failing. You know you're unable to run the team, in fact you've given that up. So how does it hurt to solicit bids with the proviso that the deal isn't finalized until you're gone? That's just pure greed and ego.
Buying and selling NFL franchises is a long and complicated process. Maybe Ralph wanted to enjoy his final months on earth as much as possible instead of spending that time trying to make you feel better about the future of the Bills long after he's dead.

[Bill Cody]

Buying and selling NFL franchises is a long and complicated process. Maybe Ralph wanted to enjoy his final months on earth as much as possible instead of spending that time trying to make you feel better about the future of the Bills long after he's dead.

lol

Ralph has people to do the work. If he wanted it done it would not have been hard. He didn't want it done. And this is not about me. It's about all Bills fans.

Warren Buffet purchased Conrail for 6B over a weekend. Selling the Bills is not unlocking the secrets of the 1/1000000th of a second after the Big Bang. Unless your goal is to wring every last dime out of the deal.

[TedMock]

Bill Polian said that people have no idea how many offers Ralph had to sell/move the team. Polian claimed he was in the room during a couple of the calls and the offers were more lucrative than staying put. Ralph seemed to feel that the team belonged in Buffalo and there were several people over the last couple days who claim he told them the Bills will remain there as long as he's alive. He kept that promise. What he did not do was explicitly decide what should happen to the team after he dies. I realize some are upset by that, but it seems that it's not a jab at Buffalo as much as it is his refusal to tell another business owner what he can or cannot do with his asset. The other thought is that we really do not know what the trust agreement stipulates. We do know that any sale would have to be in "the best interest" of the trust, but that could be interpreted many ways. Sale price is certainly one, but preserving the legacy of the team near its current location could be another. I really hope a group with local ties sweeps in and makes it all moot, but we can't know at this point. I'm sure that's Ralph's preference, but I can see him having dual loyalties - one being to the fans of the Buffalo Bills, and one being to his fellow businessmen. I fault him for some things, but not in this case. I would hate to lose the Bills, but I also have no problem with a business owner doing what he legally can to maximize profit. That includes small businesses. You built it, it's yours.

[Bill Cody]

I would hate to lose the Bills, but I also have no problem with a business owner doing what he legally can to maximize profit. That includes small businesses. You built it, it's yours.

He didn't build it. Let's get that straight. This is the equivalent of Ralph opening a random hamburger stand and being bought out by McDonald's. The value of the Bills today is because of the merger which Ralph did not cause and the success of the league which is due to television and fan interest, not Ralph's astute management. Ralph bought a winning lottery ticket. The fact is the profits of league are largely socialized so being in Buffalo was not a big sacrifice. In fact I would argue that based on the product Ralph has put on the field the amazingly loyal fans of Buffalo are the only reason he was able to avoid killing a golden goose. You can't live in a world of socialized profits and pretend to have a pure capitalism worldview, that doesn't wash, sorry.

[swiper]

Small risk, big reward.

[TedMock]

He didn't build it. Let's get that straight. This is the equivalent of Ralph opening a random hamburger stand and being bought out by McDonald's. The value of the Bills today is because of the merger which Ralph did not cause and the success of the league which is due to television and fan interest, not Ralph's astute management. Ralph bought a winning lottery ticket. The fact is the profits of league are largely socialized so being in Buffalo was not a big sacrifice. In fact I would argue that based on the product Ralph has put on the field the amazingly loyal fans of Buffalo are the only reason he was able to avoid killing a golden goose. You can't live in a world of socialized profits and pretend to have a pure capitalism worldview, that doesn't wash, sorry.

Football basically grew with TV and the merger was the instrument that eventually catapulted it all. I agree. I don't think it's just dumb luck though and I think discounting his accomplishments as just that is wrong. Pete Rozelle started the revenue sharing deal and got the tv contracts in place well before the merger. I'm not saying Ralph was the greatest and smartest of owners - especially from a quality of play standpoint. I am saying that, regardless of how we feel about him, it did take foresight and intelligence to make it work. He was the president of the AFL and we would have to assume that he was an important part of the merger negotiations. By all accounts, it was Wilson who initiated the merger talks with the president of the NFL at the time. Colts, I think? Everything was in place and it made sense. Foolish not to give it a shot. I'm not saying it was genius, but it would have been stupid and stubborn not to give it a try. He held enough weight and respect to get things going and that's important. I agree that this thing blew up well beyond their wildest dreams, but I don't think they all just fell into it either. As far as him having a socialist or capitalist lean - I have no idea what his beliefs were there, so I can't comment on that. Personally, I generally support capitalism and don't agree with socialism, but somehow the NFL made it work on both fronts. Kudos to them, I guess. Either way, my point was not about debating the mixed economic theory that is involved here. We're all aware of it and how the league uses it. I'm just saying that the majority owner still has the right to earn profits to the maximum level possible and in any way he sees fit, so long as it is within the guidelines.

[cookie G]

No no I get that. I'm just saying, at 95 do you really need to be "the man"? 95??

And even if that defines you, and you can't give it up, why not make a side deal to sell the team to a local group after you're gone? That part is PURELY about money, no?

Yeah..in a way is it about money...on that issue.

If you recall, several years ago, Ralph said there would be no "hometown discount" for a local successor and that they had looked into it.

The reason is...the IRS will tax estates based on FMV of the estate assets, not the sale price prior to death.

IF there is litigation regarding his estate, that would actually be the number one issue involved..the valuation of an NFL franchise.

But for example..

the Bills have an FMV of $800 million

a local group buys it for $600 million

the death occurs within 3 years of sale (most transfers within 3 years of death are considered transfers in contemplation of death, and the assets are brought back into the estate)...

Ralph (and later his estate) realizes $600 million on the sale.

But..the IRS determines the franchise was worth $800 million, and places a tax of $320 million on the estate, even though the estate never received the extra $200 million.

That's why he was using the term "highest bidder" quite a bit. There doesn't necessarily have to be a "high bidder"..but the purchaser has to pay FMV...

Is there a possibility that no local group could, or would, come up with enough to equal FMV? Maybe...it is a possibility.

I did suspect myself,...that there was a buying group in mind..not so much by the way Ralph acted, but by the way others seemed to have acted..Kelly for one..Sen. Shumer for another, Goodell for a 3rd. When all of this came up a few years ago..the fear was apparent.

But after these people spoke with Bills higher ups...they stopped talking about the team leaving..as if they were told..we have something in mind..

Guess not. Or if there is..they still aren't saying it.

[YardRat]

1. If Ralph was in it strictly for the money, he could've made bank by moving the team several times over the last 50 years. He didn't.
2. People underestimate the amount of influence Wilson had in the past on the merger, revenue sharing, television revenue, etc.
3. People have no clue if Ralph ever even took a penny from the organization's revenue...ever. If anybody does, please share. Many keep pointing out the tremendous increase in value of the team, but let's face it...he never lived to see the profit, for him it's just value on paper. Deal with the reality...selling the team doesn't put a dime in his pocket, and he's passed without ever seeing the profit realized. If you invest $25k and never capitalize on the increased value, you're still out 25k, not up $900mil to the good.
4. Great posts by cookie and Lecter.

[Bill Cody]

Either way, my point was not about debating the mixed economic theory that is involved here. We're all aware of it and how the league uses it. I'm just saying that the majority owner still has the right to earn profits to the maximum level possible and in any way he sees fit, so long as it is within the guidelines.

I was just pointing out that the idea of an owner "maxing out" profits, most of which are being handed to him as a part of collective TV and revenue sharing deals, is kind of an ironic way to view capitalism.

Personally I look at a football team as a bit different than other kinds of assets, in a way it's a public/private partnership. The public invests money for infrastucture and they support the team financially. Beyond that there is a sense of community that a team brings that goes way beyond whose name is on the side of the building.

If a community was not supporting a team then moving should be an option. But if they've poured their love and financial support strongly behind a team for decades? Moving should not be an option. That's why Art Modell won't rest in peace. I'm not comparing Ralph to Art I'm just saying I feel strongly the litany of excuses that are being made for why Ralph did not secure the Bills future in Buffalo, which he clearly had the power to do, are just that, excuses. Just because it's legal doesn't make it acceptable, at least in my opinion.

[Bill Cody]

1. If Ralph was in it strictly for the money, he could've made bank by moving the team several times over the last 50 years. He didn't.
2. People underestimate the amount of influence Wilson had in the past on the merger, revenue sharing, television revenue, etc.
3. People have no clue if Ralph ever even took a penny from the organization's revenue...ever. If anybody does, please share. Many keep pointing out the tremendous increase in value of the team, but let's face it...he never lived to see the profit, for him it's just value on paper. Deal with the reality...selling the team doesn't put a dime in his pocket, and he's passed without ever seeing the profit realized. If you invest $25k and never capitalize on the increased value, you're still out 25k, not up $900mil to the good.
4. Great posts by cookie and Lecter.

If you want to assume Ralph never profited from the team's revenue and that the team's value was just a "paper profit" than why assume he'd make bank by moving the team? Isn't that just more "paper profits"? Or is the only spendable money the kind you get from moving?

[TedMock]

I was just pointing out that the idea of an owner "maxing out" profits, most of which are being handed to him as a part of collective TV and revenue sharing deals, is kind of an ironic way to view capitalism.

Personally I look at a football team as a bit different than other kinds of assets, in a way it's a public/private partnership. The public invests money for infrastucture and they support the team financially. Beyond that there is a sense of community that a team brings that goes way beyond whose name is on the side of the building.

If a community was not supporting a team then moving should be an option. But if they've poured their love and financial support strongly behind a team for decades? Moving should not be an option. That's why Art Modell won't rest in peace. I'm not comparing Ralph to Art I'm just saying I feel strongly the litany of excuses that are being made for why Ralph did not secure the Bills future in Buffalo, which he clearly had the power to do, are just that, excuses. Just because it's legal doesn't make it acceptable, at least in my opinion.

Understood and I don't really disagree. I guess I'm just looking at any angle I can think of. The real questions that I cannot wait to have answered are: What does the trust language say? and Are there already potential local buying groups?

My thought here is that I'm from Buffalo, so if I had a billion bucks and the Bills are for sale, I buy them and keep them put as my heart strings are tugged in that direction. If they're not for sale, but San Diego is, I consider buying the Chargers. Let's, for argument sake, say the Chargers have no PSL's and the average ticket is $60. What if LA comes along and says "We have a new stadium deal in place, the City Council is finally on board and on board to the effect of a 14-0 vote that a team here is right for the city, so they are willing to pitch in non-shared revenue. Our research shows that we can get an average of $80 per seat and, depending on location, we can get $2000-$4000 per year in PSL's." I have no ties to San Diego and I probably won't be living in either city. San Diego fans will absolutely hate me, but I would absolutely resent any group trying to block me. I guess that's why I sort of "understand." Of course Bills fans are definitely > Chargers fans, so there is that.

[TedMock]

The other thing that may have to be done is the raising of ticket prices. There is no way local fans will support PSL's. A 10% pop on tickets is less obvious, so there's a better chance there. I understand they're doing the variable pricing thing that is common with college games. The Sabres do it too. The part of that which I absolutely hate is that, yes, we keep the team, but at the cost of having more dollars come in from, oh say, Toronto and the stands are loaded with those fans who just root against the Bills. Say the Seahawks or 49ers are in town, for example. Not only is the team probably losing that game, but you're also dealing with a bunch of faux fans and parties on both sides are drunk. Bad atmosphere. I don't hate Canada at all, but I'm not saying anything all that far-fetched.

[Bill Cody]

The other thing that may have to be done is the raising of ticket prices.

That can be done but you have to be paying for something. Folks will pay for a glass of good wine but they're not going to pay $20 for a bottle of Ripple. Improve the product and a lot of things are possible. Bills fans have been buying dirty diapers for a long time now.

[Historian]

I honestly thought that given the fact that he was the eldest statesman in the league that the league would "allow" him to go the Green Bay route, and give the team to the community. (with certain provisions, of course, like a new stadium)

[gebobs]

I honestly thought that given the fact that he was the eldest statesman in the league that the league would "allow" him to go the Green Bay route, and give the team to the community. (with certain provisions, of course, like a new stadium)

I've um fantasized (*blush*) about that for years.