Bills trying to move up?

[GingerP]

From Dan Pompeii:


Word from the NFL meetings is the Texans are trying hard to deal the first pick in the draft. They want to move down and acquire extra selections. Sources say they might have a trade partner in the Bills, who appear interested in moving up. It is unclear who the Bills would want in a trade-up scenario. Some believe they would move up for a quarterback. They also could make good use of an offensive tackle such as Greg Robinson. And it would be something to see them pair Mario Williams with either Jadeveon Clowney or Khalil Mack.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007370-dan-pompeis-read-option-how-will-michael-vick-fit-in-with-the-jets

Moving up likely will require not only picks in this draft but maybe next years 1st as well. Surprised the Bills would do that, but you never know.

[stuckincincy]

That would be a surprise, if the conventional wisdom holds that with rookies being cheap to employ, the more the merrier.

Still, BUF has made numerous surprise moves and picks in the past, at least in my opinion.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If they traded up and took Greg Robinson YUCK.

[elltrain22]

I don't buy that at all! I really don't see us doing that.

[The King]

I too think we value our draft picks more than this. But if the Bills feel they have a can't miss prospect go for it. It would be a QB though… too much risk there. If you're making this move it's for a sure thing.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Get Johnny Football already. Lets just do it.

[Skooby]

It'd be Clowney, we have a 4-3 D missing a DE.

[Bill Cody]

Get Johnny Football already. Lets just do it.


this board's traffic would go up 5x overnight. Whatever your opinion of Manziel is he would NOT be boring. I think that would be the single boldest move in franchise history for better or for worse.

[THATHURMANATOR]

this board's traffic would go up 5x overnight. Whatever your opinion of Manziel is he would NOT be boring. I think that would be the single boldest move in franchise history for better or for worse.

Agreed 100%

[alohabillsfan]

This would be a total buffalo bills move, a deep draft and they would move up and give up picks!

[sukie]

I want me some Clowney. THAT would be an awesome D and Brady would shart himself continually until empty.

[Buffalogic]

Move up for Clowney or Mack, those are the only options. But this draft is so deep I would hate to forfeit picks. Would be awesome if we could trade 9 and maybe a current player to move up instead of picks.

[MikeInRoch]

I don't believe it. It would cost way, way too much.

[Mahdi]

If you believe Manziel is the next Steve Young trading up to number 1 from 9 is a no brainer. Even if it means giving up 2 firsts and a second. This team is one QB away from the playoffs.

I don't believe the Bills would move up for anyone else but Manziel. Maybe Clowney but that's a stretch considering we were near the top in sacks. We do need a DE though. Hughes is too weak to play DE regularly. He's a specialist.

[trapezeus]

i'd rather move up for Bortles than manziel.
i'm not on board for a move up for OT since linemen are supposed to be deep.
I'd be intrigued by clowney...and that makes the most sense as they would be showing that they want to just crush teams defensively and just survive on offense by managing the game without too much risk.

I don't think this is the draft to move up on. a trade up would make sense if you were close to being a great team. and we are on the outside looking in at trying to be a decent team.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The only way you move up to #1 is for QB. No other player is worth that much in today's NFL.

In that case, EJ will be part of the trade, no question.

[X-Era]

I'd think Watkins or Mack. But without recent moves at LB and our strong DL I can't see Clowney or Mack... Yet Watkins....

I really can't see OT. With 3 guys in the top 10 it's very possible one falls. And you don't usually see someone move to #1 for an OT. But a playmaker, yes. Julio Jones wasn't taken #1 but it's not unheard of to make a significant move for a guy that gets the ball and makes plays.

Don't forget the Rams pick #2 and have been rumored to be a Watkins landing spot.

[X-Era]

The only way you move up to #1 is for QB. No other player is worth that much in today's NFL.

In that case, EJ will be part of the trade, no question.Disagree. With a record number of juniors and a rookie salary cap, a bad pick won't cost a team as much as it used too in cap space. The depth allows teams to get solid palyers later which waters down the worth of a high pick, and the trade chart doesn't fit either anymore.

[WagonCircler]

i'd rather move up for Bortles than manziel..

I don't think they'd have to move up for Bortles.

The headline here though, if this story true, is that the Bills finally realize that the need a QB.

[HAMMER]

If you think Clowney can be the next Bruce Smith you make the move without hesitation. I can't believe it would be for anyone but Clowney.

[mysticsoto]

Smokescreen crap. With the moves the Bills made in the offseason, it wouldn't make sense for them to give up the many picks this would take for anybody. The Bills are going to stick with EJ. He's only had 1 year and that's not enough to consider him a failure by any stretch of the imagination. There are 3 top tackles, and one likely falls to #9. Watkins or Clowney might be the only people worth moving up for, but considering they showed how important depth is for the team, they are unlikely to give up picks when what we need is more. We have a number of positions where we need help in: LG, RT, WR, FS, RG, SS?, TE? The 1st 5 I think are almost mandatory to get from the draft. Moving up means we lose the ability to fill one or more of those slots. Wouldn't make sense at all...

[X-Era]

Smokescreen crap. With the moves the Bills made in the offseason, it wouldn't make sense for them to give up the many picks this would take for anybody. The Bills are going to stick with EJ. He's only had 1 year and that's not enough to consider him a failure by any stretch of the imagination. There are 3 top tackles, and one likely falls to #9. Watkins or Clowney might be the only people worth moving up for, but considering they showed how important depth is for the team, they are unlikely to give up picks when what we need is more. We have a number of positions where we need help in: LG, RT, WR, FS, RG, SS?, TE? The 1st 5 I think are almost mandatory to get from the draft. Moving up means we lose the ability to fill one or more of those slots. Wouldn't make sense at all...Or we filled enough holes (in the mind of the Bills) in FA to leave us only needing a WR and OT and since the OT dpeth in the draft is so good and that we need a RT not a LT, we could trade oru #1 and #2 get Watkins and still get a starting RT in round 3 (in their minds). Forget positions and picks and all that for a second... If the Bills came out of the draft with Watkins and a possible day one starting RT would we be upset? Again the depth in this class should allow us to get solid prospects well into and beyond day two.

[OpIv37]

This looks like speculation and rumor at this point, but I really think doing this would be stupid on an epic level.

Manziel has too many question marks. It's just not worth the gamble. And while I'd love to have Clowney, the price is too high. And let's not forget we led the league in sacks last year without him. Id rather use the picks. We'd have to trade to fix the OL, add to the LB corps, give EJ more weapons and add depth all around (especially at S).

We have a lot of holes that weren't addressed in FA. If we bet the farm on one of these two, they won't be addressed in the draft either.

[X-Era]

If you think Clowney can be the next Bruce Smith you make the move without hesitation. I can't believe it would be for anyone but Clowney.
I can.

[X-Era]

This looks like speculation and rumor at this point, but I really think doing this would be stupid on an epic level.

Manziel has too many question marks. It's just not worth the gamble. And while I'd love to have Clowney, the price is too high. And let's not forget we led the league in sacks last year without him. Id rather use the picks. We'd have to trade to fix the OL, add to the LB corps, give EJ more weapons and add depth all around (especially at S).

We have a lot of holes that weren't addressed in FA. If we bet the farm on one of these two, they won't be addressed in the draft either.It's a surpising rumor for me too because I wouldn't think they would do this with a fairly pedestrian FA period. But I can see the Bills convincing themselves otherwise as I described.

[TigerJ]

There is a thread on the official bills message board about the same tweet from Pompeii. IMO, the only persons they would trade up for would be Clowney or possibly Mack, as a right defensive end candidate. It would mean that Buffalo thinks they are close enough to filling their holes that they can afford trading away the picks it would take, and that getting a top defensive end is more important than quantity at this point. I don't believe for a moment they are that sold on a QB in the draft that they would make the trade, and with three excellent tackles at the top of the draft they would go gaga over any one of them.

I agree with mystic that this is more likely just a bit of smoke than any real fire.

[trapezeus]

the idea that EJ would be part of that trade seems odd to me. from a neutral standpoint, someone looking at a guy who may have been taken too high and then was injured for almost half his season and inconsistent at best when he played, isn't going to sway a team to make a trade. it might be a favor a team would do if the bills just didnt want the distraction.

but i think the bills giving up a #1 next year would be what makes the deal possible and we know the bills love drafting from 6-12 every year.

the bills front office would have to be really sure that they are close and have the depth needed to survive injuries. you lose mario or kyle or clowney or kiko, the bills aren't going to be a dominant defense with their backups. and their offense isn't going to reliably mask that deficiency.

[Uncle Jesse]

This is exactly why I wouldn't, especially the bolded.


- If you were to follow the draft value chart that has been in circulation for years, the compensation package to land the top overall selection from nine would be immense. The top overall selection is worth 3,000 points, while the ninth selection is worth 1,350. The Bills would have to provide, in the opinion of your author, the ninth selection, at least the 2015 first-round pick (if not the one in 2016 as well), likely their 2014 second-round pick (41st overall) and an additional future pick not in the first round. That’s a lot of ammo to give up if you’re the Bills, especially considering the holes that still exist on the roster.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Disagree. With a record number of juniors and a rookie salary cap, a bad pick won't cost a team as much as it used too in cap space. The depth allows teams to get solid palyers later which waters down the worth of a high pick, and the trade chart doesn't fit either anymore.

I think he means in lost draft picks, not money spent

- - - Updated - - -


This looks like speculation and rumor at this point, but I really think doing this would be stupid on an epic level.

Manziel has too many question marks. It's just not worth the gamble. And while I'd love to have Clowney, the price is too high. And let's not forget we led the league in sacks last year without him. Id rather use the picks. We'd have to trade to fix the OL, add to the LB corps, give EJ more weapons and add depth all around (especially at S).

We have a lot of holes that weren't addressed in FA. If we bet the farm on one of these two, they won't be addressed in the draft either.

if i'm not mistaken, we were number 2 behind carolina. still was a great sack season though

[Meathead]

whytf are we still talking about qbs, especially in a trade up context

they did all that work last year to get their guy, they arent going to throw more firsts at the position one year later. short of severing a limb or having a 4-26 td/int ratio, it doesnt matter wtf happens in a highly drafted qbs first year, you dont spend another first on the position. once you pick your round 1 qb they get two seasons period. and you sure as hell dont burn another first just to move up to do it

even tho its mathematically impossible, Meathead the Geek® is for the first time making a negative prediction at -3.75% likelihood this happens. its so ridikilis that it transcends mathematical boundaries and starts to wrap around and bleed to the other side. conversely, if you believe the bills would do this you are -96.25% not bat ass crazy

if nappy and company think they are ready to compete for the division that means they like they feel their talent is close. the only guy that could put them over that top is clowney. thats the only chance they would do this and official MTG odds are currently at 12.2%

[coastal]

If they can get Robinson.. And give up this years first and second and next years first... I say go for it.

It would finally signify that someone up there gets what building to a strength means.

our offensive strength is CJ and Fjax!

Period.

The book on Robinson is he's a freak at run blocking. A ******* freak!

There's plenty of late round talent to be had allegedly.

go get the best run blocking tackle in the draft and plug him in.

coastal approved!

[Jry44]

Smoke Screens.....

The Texans are openly trying like hell to trade that pick, and are putting this out in an attempt to get another team to jump and make the deal. Buffalo trading up makes absolutely no sense.

You only make a move like this if you feel like your team is a player or two away from competing for a championship. The Bills clearly aren't this. This move wouldn't be for a QB. The same regime that hand picked Ej Manuel is still in place. I highly doubt they give up on the kid after just a year. Especially after Marrone has openly talked about how excited he was to have an entire off season to work with him. As to any other player like Clowney, Mack, or Watkins..... I don't think you give up a 1st round pick next season with as many holes as this team has to fill just to get a blue chipper this season. This is a very deep draft, and at #9 we're still in a very good position to get a player that can come in and have a day 1 impact. I don't think you have to trade away future picks to move up to get someone else.

[Jry44]

Smokescreen crap. With the moves the Bills made in the offseason, it wouldn't make sense for them to give up the many picks this would take for anybody. The Bills are going to stick with EJ. He's only had 1 year and that's not enough to consider him a failure by any stretch of the imagination. There are 3 top tackles, and one likely falls to #9. Watkins or Clowney might be the only people worth moving up for, but considering they showed how important depth is for the team, they are unlikely to give up picks when what we need is more. We have a number of positions where we need help in: LG, RT, WR, FS, RG, SS?, TE? The 1st 5 I think are almost mandatory to get from the draft. Moving up means we lose the ability to fill one or more of those slots. Wouldn't make sense at all...


I wish I had read this before I posted my response.... haha. Spot on!

[Night Train]

This would be a total buffalo bills move, a deep draft and they would move up and give up picks!

unless it's the QB you've been crying for..

[jimmifli]

If they can get Robinson.. And give up this years first and second and next years first... I say go for it.

It would finally signify that someone up there gets what building to a strength means.

our offensive strength is CJ and Fjax!

Period.

The book on Robinson is he's a freak at run blocking. A ******* freak!

There's plenty of late round talent to be had allegedly.

go get the best run blocking tackle in the draft and plug him in.

coastal approved!
Compared to whichever of the top 3 OT's falls to us (Lewan), plus a G in the second (Su'a-Filo or Yankey) and then next season's first on the best G in the draft?

Robinson better be football Moses.

[coastal]

Compared to whichever of the top 3 OT's falls to us (Lewan), plus a G in the second (Su'a-Filo or Yankey) and then next season's first on the best G in the draft?

Robinson better be football Moses.
If they think he is the Moses of pounding the ball up the NFL's ass... you ****ing go for it.

[DraftBoy]

Calm down everybody…

John McClain has already squashed this rumor and its not happening.

[jimmifli]

If they think he is the Moses of pounding the ball up the NFL's ass... you ****ing go for it.
It's tough to imagine him being better by enough margin to justify filling two G positions with scrubs.

[mayotm]

Man I hate that the draft got moved back to May. Several extra weeks of speculation based on nothing will be tough to deal with.

[WagonCircler]

John McClain has already squashed this rumor and its not happening.

John McClain? Well, yippee ki yay, mother*******-s!

[Meathead]

John McClain has already squashed this rumor and its not happening.

yippee ki yay

[tomz]

If you think Clowney can be the next Bruce Smith you make the move without hesitation. I can't believe it would be for anyone but Clowney.

Absolutely agree on both counts. This was the Giants formula some years ago when they won the Super Bowl--build the D-line. Admittedly, once Strahan left it didn't as good.

I cannot buy that they will draft a QB. Why would they trade up to #1 for Watkins, Mack, Robinson or just about anyone else? The Rams have been rumored to be shopping their pick--the Bills could have their pick of any of those at that spot as well. Only Clowney is worth going all the way up for.

Also, the price to trade up has dropped quite a bit because of the lower cost of rookies etc. Just look at the last couple drafts.

[Meathead]

damn!

[Bill Cody]

I would guess the odds of the Bills moving up to # 1 to draft an offensive lineman are about zero

[coastal]

It's tough to imagine him being better by enough margin to justify filling two G positions with scrubs.Who is more likely to become an All-Pro... the first or third OT off the board?

and Lewan sucks... he's a poor man's Jake Long.

the **** for brains on this site only like him because he's white and they think inked-up arms look way cool. Plus they've read he's got a nasty demeanor.

Now if we can trade up a couple of spots to get Matthews and still get Gabe Jackson... I get your point and agree with it.

but the third best OT on the board does absolutely nothing for me.

[alohabillsfan]

Crying for? Sure it's only been a need for 14 ******* years! Lmao

[stuckincincy]

I would guess the odds of the Bills moving up to # 1 to draft an offensive lineman are about zero

Yup.

[DBrown77]

**** Poor reporting by that dolt on Bleacher Report. What happened to integrity in Journalism? Articles are now written on pure speculation and passed as news.

[CoolBreeze]

I would guess the odds of the Bills moving up to # 1 to draft an offensive lineman are about zero

No way, with the amount of touchdowns they're gonna score? Surely an OL must be worth 4 draft picks/potential starters. Lol i'm with you on the no chance response. If we go #1 it better be for Clowney, Watkins, or a QB. And with Manuel IMO still having the potential to be good. If they move up for a QB, they'd better believe that he's god's gift to the NFL for the next decade.

[TedMock]

I REALLY can't stand Pompei, but this really wasn't him reporting anything and he's not a hack by any stretch. All he said was "Sources say they might have a trade partner in the Bills, who appear interested in moving up." Might. Appear to be. That's about as non-committal as it gets. Shame on anybody who read it and took it as definitive. He chose his words carefully as you should expect from a hall of fame voter. Yes, he is. I still don't like him.

[Buffalogic]

Williams-Williams-Dareus-Clowney would be almost unfair. I'd like that. Watkins a dark horse too, but if they can get Britt it would be smart to go Clowney/Mack. I'd be very displeased if we moved up for a QB or tackle.

[jimmifli]

Who is more likely to become an All-Pro... the first or third OT off the board?

and Lewan sucks... he's a poor man's Jake Long.

the **** for brains on this site only like him because he's white and they think inked-up arms look way cool. Plus they've read he's got a nasty demeanor.

Now if we can trade up a couple of spots to get Matthews and still get Gabe Jackson... I get your point and agree with it.

but the third best OT on the board does absolutely nothing for me.

Lewan would be the worst player on that line.
Glenn - best G in 2014 - Wood - best G in 2015 - Lewan ... looks better than:
Glenn - Scrub we overpaid by 4million - Wood - some other scrub already on our roster - Mathews

If we're going to spend 3 picks on the OL, I'd rather fix all 3 holes.

[swiper]

From Dan Pompeii:



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007370-dan-pompeis-read-option-how-will-michael-vick-fit-in-with-the-jets

Moving up likely will require not only picks in this draft but maybe next years 1st as well. Surprised the Bills would do that, but you never know.


Bring me BORTLES!

[Night Train]

Bring me BORTLES!

Is that a pale ale or a lager ?

[swiper]

Absolutely agree on both counts. This was the Giants formula some years ago when they won the Super Bowl--build the D-line. Admittedly, once Strahan left it didn't as good.

I cannot buy that they will draft a QB. Why would they trade up to #1 for Watkins, Mack, Robinson or just about anyone else? The Rams have been rumored to be shopping their pick--the Bills could have their pick of any of those at that spot as well. Only Clowney is worth going all the way up for.

Also, the price to trade up has dropped quite a bit because of the lower cost of rookies etc. Just look at the last couple drafts.

Why not? That's their biggest hole by far.

[YardRat]

LOL...Texans threw a baited hook into the water, and lookit all the hits they are getting.

[Turf]

Last week people were saying Manziel could fall to 9. I don't get it.

[better days]

Why not? That's their biggest hole by far.

Because Andrew Luck is NOT in this draft.

[Mace]

Funny part is that NFL.COM updated that the "well connected" Houston sportswriter McClain said no way this morning at 10:39 am, then spent the rest of the day rearranging the article wording headline to keep making it seem more likely.

I've been though decades of ridiculous offseasons, but this one seems more ridiculous than usual. Shefter insisted that people know the Bills have always loved Vick since he was last available, so I looked back and the last time Vick was available it was Schefter insisting it that everyone picked up on which led to Schefter saying "well I know they did" even though no one else could find where it came from besides Schefter. And we wanted Sanchez. Not. And we "might" not be put off by DeSean Jackson according to the now shameless Tim Graham, though if you read the article, the general idea fits with that we might also not be put off by Aaron Hernandez out on parole because sometimes we might try "character concern" people.

We might also be involved in the Malaysian plane crash, the return of Tim Tebow, and the Russian invasion of Crimea if you can post an article on it with a reasonably non committal headline to get paid by word count.

To make pretend a minute this might be serious, no way this deep draft and the next couple are worth anyone number one this year within 8 picks. You might really like any one of the top 10 players, but none of them are that many draft picks worth of player.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Williams-Williams-Dareus-Clowney would be almost unfair. I'd like that. Watkins a dark horse too, but if they can get Britt it would be smart to go Clowney/Mack. I'd be very displeased if we moved up for a QB or tackle.

My god that would be nasty. That's a better defensive line possibly than we had in the SB years.

The rest of the team on the other hand...

[GvilleBills]

If for Watkins, this would be the all time blunder of all blunders. Mortgage your future for a guy who'll be gone after rookie contract. Its the Parker effect.


Trade down, get MORE picks

[X-Era]

If for Watkins, this would be the all time blunder of all blunders. Mortgage your future for a guy who'll be gone after rookie contract. Its the Parker effect.


Trade down, get MORE picks
We've made deals with him before. I'm not worried about that.

Relativity Sports is the agency. The same agency that represents Stevie. Yeah, Stevie's agent is CJ Laboy and not Parker. But Watkins has both Parker and Dandy as his agents.

Team have more control at the end of a rookie deal with the 5th year option and tags at their disposal.

[better days]

We've made deals with him before. I'm not worried about that.

Relativity Sports is the agency. The same agency that represents Stevie. Yeah, Stevie's agent is CJ Laboy and not Parker. But Watkins has both Parker and Dandy as his agents.

Team have more control at the end of a rookie deal with the 5th year option and tags at their disposal.

I don't think it is worth it to move up to draft anyone this year.

The cost is too high & the draft is too deep to give up picks.

And there is no sure thing at QB like Andrew Luck in this draft.

[X-Era]

I don't think it is worth it to move up to draft anyone this year.

The cost is too high & the draft is too deep to give up picks.

And there is no sure thing at QB like Andrew Luck in this draft.How do you know what the cost is? I wouldn't give up 2- 1st's. But our 9 pick, 2nd rounder, and a later pick? Maybe. Depends on what you need, who you'd be getting, and what the plan would then be to fill your other needs.

Put it this way, I don't think moving up from 9 would destroy our fortunes for next year. It may be tough actually to show how that move would have a significant impact on the team in 2014.

As I said before, the Bills (not many of us), might say they have only 2 needs going into the draft... WR and OT. And at both positions they are returning last years starters. After that they would be adding guys to compete for depth spots or developmental projects. Whaley has said multiple times that the bodies they have added give them flexibility in the draft. So they might look at it like even if they give up their 2nd and a later round pick they still have 5 picks, can get the WR, OT, and still have 3 picks to add depth or developmental guys.

Add in that the very deep draft means more priority free agents. Some of whom might have been drafted in most years.

[better days]

How do you know what the cost is? I wouldn't give up 2- 1st's. But our 9 pick, 2nd rounder, and a later pick? Maybe. Depends on what you need, who you'd be getting, and what the plan would then be to fill your other needs.

Put it this way, I don't think moving up from 9 would destroy our fortunes for next year. It may be tough actually to show how that move would have a significant impact on the team in 2014.

As I said before, the Bills (not many of us), might say they have only 2 needs going into the draft... WR and OT. And at both positions they are returning last years starters. After that they would be adding guys to compete for depth spots or developmental projects. Whaley has said multiple times that the bodies they have added give them flexibility in the draft. So they might look at it like even if they give up their 2nd and a later round pick they still have 5 picks, can get the WR, OT, and still have 3 picks to add depth or developmental guys.

Add in that the very deep draft means more priority free agents. Some of whom might have been drafted in most years.

I only know what has been given up in the past to move from as low as #9 to #1.

It would cost at least one other pick this year & the #1 pick next year going from past trades.

There is just no one worth that cost to move up.

The Bills will get a GOOD player at #9. Keep all their picks this year & next.

The draft is the lifeblood for a team like the Bills.

Players get older, players get injured & have their career cut short.

The smart move is to keep all the picks.

[jamze132]

We're talking about the Bills here. If we moved up to the #1 pick, we would either A) not get the pick in on time, B) draft AJ McCarron, or C) draft the #1 DB on the board.

[X-Era]

I only know what has been given up in the past to move from as low as #9 to #1.

It would cost at least one other pick this year & the #1 pick next year going from past trades.

There is just no one worth that cost to move up.

The Bills will get a GOOD player at #9. Keep all their picks this year & next.

The draft is the lifeblood for a team like the Bills.

Players get older, players get injured & have their career cut short.

The smart move is to keep all the picks.I'd agree with that pre-rookie salary cap. Now not so much. Lower rookie salaries have lowered the perceived pick worth and risk associated with the top picks.

Of course the draft is key to all teams. But getting the best players out of the draft is what teams need to do. Not stockpile picks for lesser players. The Pats make this point very strongly. They water down their talent with stockpiling picks. Throwing more darts at the board does nothing if you're inaccurate and can't hit the bulls-eye.

[GvilleBills]

We've made deals with him before. I'm not worried about that.

Relativity Sports is the agency. The same agency that represents Stevie. Yeah, Stevie's agent is CJ Laboy and not Parker. But Watkins has both Parker and Dandy as his agents.

Team have more control at the end of a rookie deal with the 5th year option and tags at their disposal.

Cuz guys love to be tagged...

You deal with Parker if you want, the likelihood is that Watkins walks after his rookie deal is up. If Watkins proves to be as good as everyone thinks, Parker will want astronomical money.
Looking at that scenario plus the cost of a 9 to 1 move, I'm staying at 9 or moving back and getting more picks. No way 9, 41, and a fourth get it done.
I see no problem with bringing more talent to the roster.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Now not so much. Lower rookie salaries have lowered the perceived pick worth and risk associated with the top picks.

What are you talking about? The rookie cap made the picks MORE valuable because they're getting top talent without the top pick premium. The difference between the top uncapped pick (Bradford) and the first capped pick (Newton) was almost 28 million guaranteed.

[X-Era]

What are you talking about? The rookie cap made the picks MORE valuable because they're getting top talent without the top pick premium. The difference between the top uncapped pick (Bradford) and the first capped pick (Newton) was almost 28 million guaranteed.
Worth monetarily... What the pick respresents from a contract standpoint.

I meant that moving up is more worth it now from a lower cost vs. player value standpoint.

As far as how much in picks it costs I don't agree that it takes two first necessarily. In a deep class like this and without a Luck at the top the buyers won't give up as much. So it's really a matter of how bad a team wants to move down.

[better days]

I'd agree with that pre-rookie salary cap. Now not so much. Lower rookie salaries have lowered the perceived pick worth and risk associated with the top picks.

Of course the draft is key to all teams. But getting the best players out of the draft is what teams need to do. Not stockpile picks for lesser players. The Pats make this point very strongly. They water down their talent with stockpiling picks. Throwing more darts at the board does nothing if you're inaccurate and can't hit the bulls-eye.

Well, the salary cap was in place when the Redskins moved up to the #2 spot from #6 to draft RGIII.

The Skins gave up THREE 1st rnd picks, 2012, 2013 & 2014.

And a 2nd rnd pick in 2012.

The Bills are 3 spots lower than the Skins were & we are talking the #1 pick, not #2.

I think I was being CONSERVATIVE in what I said the Bills would have to give up to move to #1.

[chris66]

From Dan Pompeii:



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007370-dan-pompeis-read-option-how-will-michael-vick-fit-in-with-the-jets

Moving up likely will require not only picks in this draft but maybe next years 1st as well. Surprised the Bills would do that, but you never know.

Wow that would be a real aggressive shift in philosophy. if they can pull it off they should go for it.

[X-Era]

Well, the salary cap was in place when the Redskins moved up to the #2 spot from #6 to draft RGIII.

The Skins gave up THREE 1st rnd picks, 2012, 2013 & 2014.

And a 2nd rnd pick in 2012.

The Bills are 3 spots lower than the Skins were & we are talking the #1 pick, not #2.

I think I was being CONSERVATIVE in what I said the Bills would have to give up to move to #1.
Like I said, that can happen for a "sure-fire franchise QB". There isn't one in this class and it's very deep. And we're also not the Redskins.

[GvilleBills]

Like I said, that can happen for a "sure-fire franchise QB". There isn't one in this class and it's very deep. And we're also not the Redskins.

Clowney is the "franchise QB" of DEs though. Even if he's not our target, he sets the market.
9,41, and a fourth will not happen.

The fact that this post-cba just means that Houston isn't trapped by the first pick.

[TacklingDummy]

The only way you move up to #1 is for QB. No other player is worth that much in today's NFL.

In that case, EJ will be part of the trade, no question.
EJ, Steve Johnson, and our 1st for The texans 1st.
Johnny Football.

The only reason to trade up in this draft is either for a QB or for Clowney, otherwise stay put.

[better days]

Like I said, that can happen for a "sure-fire franchise QB". There isn't one in this class and it's very deep. And we're also not the Redskins.

I agree with everything in this post, which is why the Bills won't trade up.

[BuffaloRedleg]

EJ, Steve Johnson, and our 1st for The texans 1st.
Johnny Football.

The only reason to trade up in this draft is either for a QB or for Clowney, otherwise stay put.

I don't see it in Johnny. If we made that trade I'd be excited of course because it's ****ing nuts and exciting, but I think it's the wrong move. Clowney on the other hand would give us arguably one of the best defensive lines in the last decade (maybe). That's the kind of thing that actually can save having a average QB, like the Ravens and Bucs.

[WagonCircler]

That's the kind of thing that actually can save having a average QB, like the Ravens and Bucs.

EJ isn't even an average QB. Right now, he has done absolutely nothing to deserve a comparison to Flacco. Flacco can be inconsistent, but is often spectacular for long stretches. Brad Johnson was an underrated QB who was accurate, consistent and didn't turn the ball over.

EJ isn't even close to those two and I don't see anything that tells me that he will be.

[BuffaloRedleg]

EJ isn't even an average QB. Right now, he has done absolutely nothing to deserve a comparison to Flacco. Flacco can be inconsistent, but is often spectacular for long stretches. Brad Johnson was an underrated QB who was accurate, consistent and didn't turn the ball over.

EJ isn't even close to those two and I don't see anything that tells me that he will be.

Well, I'm too drunk to talk about EJ but Clowney on this D Line would be legendary. If you don't think EJ is good enough hell Fitz would be good enough to be playoff capable with that D Line. I'll finish this thought tomorrow morning sober.

[sudzy]

How do you know what the cost is? I wouldn't give up 2- 1st's. But our 9 pick, 2nd rounder, and a later pick? Maybe. Depends on what you need, who you'd be getting, and what the plan would then be to fill your other needs.



You can believe it will be close to the NFL draft value chart: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php. The 1st overall pick is worth 3000 points. The Bills 1st and 2nd add up to 1840. Their entire draft adds up to 2221 points. If they are serious about moving up to one they would have to give up a 1st next year.

[sudzy]

The only thing I can come up with, is that the passing of Ralph has Brandon pushing the panic button. The owner situation will be in limbo, while the estate gets worked out. A year, maybe two. Then anyone that makes the HUGE investment to buy the Bills is going to want to win. Something that hasn't meant much to the Bills for a very long time. If Russ and the Dougs want to keep their jobs, they have to prove they're capable of winning. Time to take the blinders off on EJ. Is he really who they want to bet their future on? Or could a Clowney make this defense good enough to make the playoffs without any passing offense?

[swiper]

Who does Brandon have to "prove himself" to now in order to keep his job? It seems to me that he suddenly has some renewed job security because of the owner's passing.

[sudzy]

Who does Brandon have to "prove himself" to now in order to keep his job? It seems to me that he suddenly has some renewed job security because of the owner's passing.

Security? Obvious, you've never worked for a company that was sold. The team will not sit owner-less forever. Anybody that spend the hundreds of millions that it will take to buy the Bills, is going to want results for that money. Meaning that Brandon only has until the estate is settled to prove he is that guy or the new owner will bring in some that he believes is. So if by secure, you mean, a year or two to get your resume ready then, continue on as is.

[Skooby]

Security? Obvious, you've never worked for a company that was sold. The team will not sit owner-less forever. Anybody that spend the hundreds of millions that it will take to buy the Bills, is going to want results for that money. Meaning that Brandon only has until the estate is settled to prove he is that guy or the new owner will bring in some that he believes is. So if by secure, you mean, a year or two to get your resume ready then, continue on as is.

Russ' job security just went from 99% he has a job to how the Bills are performing on the field, so I'd say Russ needs to have the Bills get real solid on one side of the ball.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, the salary cap was in place when the Redskins moved up to the #2 spot from #6 to draft RGIII.

The Skins gave up THREE 1st rnd picks, 2012, 2013 & 2014.

And a 2nd rnd pick in 2012.

The Bills are 3 spots lower than the Skins were & we are talking the #1 pick, not #2.

I think I was being CONSERVATIVE in what I said the Bills would have to give up to move to #1.

The Redskins were also furiously bidding against the Browns, who had higher picks to work with. I don't think it's a law that we have to pay close to what they did. If the Texans are really motivated to drop, they'll take a lesser package.

That said, the only #1 pick trade that didn't involve at least two firsts (AFAICT) was the Vick deal. And Atlanta had the #5 to offer whereas we only have the #9. Without offering up a player (and who would they want?) I doubt the deal gets done without our 2015 1st.

[better days]

The Redskins were also furiously bidding against the Browns, who had higher picks to work with. I don't think it's a law that we have to pay close to what they did. If the Texans are really motivated to drop, they'll take a lesser package.

That said, the only #1 pick trade that didn't involve at least two firsts (AFAICT) was the Vick deal. And Atlanta had the #5 to offer whereas we only have the #9. Without offering up a player (and who would they want?) I doubt the deal gets done without our 2015 1st.

I never said anyone would or should pay as much as Washington did.

It was a STUPID trade for the Skins IMO.

That said, I totally believe to move from #9 to #1 would take at least two 1st rnd picks & at least one more pick in addition to that.

[CoolBreeze]

EJ isn't even an average QB. Right now, he has done absolutely nothing to deserve a comparison to Flacco. Flacco can be inconsistent, but is often spectacular for long stretches. Brad Johnson was an underrated QB who was accurate, consistent and didn't turn the ball over.

EJ isn't even close to those two and I don't see anything that tells me that he will be.

Not Flacco just yet, but he can be compare to Dilfer. Please don't talk up Brad Johnson, for he was 100 percent average. He was ok, but he has and never has deserved credit for the superbowl win or superbowl run. It was all his defense, and without them he would've never gotten close.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I never said anyone would or should pay as much as Washington did.

It was a STUPID trade for the Skins IMO.

I don't think so. Everyone turned on Griffin this season, but the guy rushed back to the field from a major knee injury to play for a coach that was actively trying to get himself fired. I don't think his book is written yet.

[WagonCircler]

Who does Brandon have to "prove himself" to now in order to keep his job? It seems to me that he suddenly has some renewed job security because of the owner's passing.

I think he knows he's a lame duck, so why not gamble with the house money and pray for a miracle. Playing it safe will guarantee that he won't be retained by the new owner. Why not play the long shots, if you're Brandon?

That being said, I don't think these reports are true. I hope they are, just because it would be fun to see what happens, but I'm skeptical that this would ever happen.

[WagonCircler]

Not Flacco just yet, but he can be compare to Dilfer. Please don't talk up Brad Johnson, for he was 100 percent average. He was ok, but he has and never has deserved credit for the superbowl win or superbowl run. It was all his defense, and without them he would've never gotten close.

Brad Johnson was not 100% average, and he was 100% better than EJ.

Deserving credit for a Super Bowl run is not the conversation we're having. It's deserving credit for not ****** up a Super Bowl run, and Johnson was perfectly suited for that. He was a low turnover, high completion guy, especially the season that Bucs won it all.

EJ is inaccurate, injury prone AND he's a fumbler. That's a horrid combination and exactly the type of QB that could neutralize a great Defense-- and I don't mean a a great opposing Defense.

Put EJ on the 1985 Bears and they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl.

[stuckincincy]

I don't think so. Everyone turned on Griffin this season, but the guy rushed back to the field from a major knee injury to play for a coach that was actively trying to get himself fired. I don't think his book is written yet.

Right you are.

That organization hurt itself more than their ego knows. They put an injured asset - one that they paid a hefty price for - directly into harms' way. They played mind games with a kid about his physical condition - they know sports injuries.

Like everyone, I've been lied to. I've told people that I understand why you are lying, I will accept that. But be aware - if you lie to me now, I shall never trust you again.

IMO, unless he and WAS are very successful and they fork over Ft. Knox, he will bolt at the first financially sound opportunity.

[YardRat]

EJ didn't **** up a Super Bowl run either, so I guess that makes him on par with Brad Johnson.

[feldspar]

The Bills trading up to the #1 overall pick would be...well, it would be Clowney.

Again, it would be a Clowney move. We'd be the clowns.

We're "all in" with EJ Manuel, and he if doesn't pan out, where stuck with no first round pick in 2015 (at least)...so it would be kind of like mortgaging our future options on a defensive lineman, where the major bulk of the Bills money is already going compared to anywhere else.

It would be a stupid, stupid risk.

[YardRat]

Security? Obvious, you've never worked for a company that was sold. The team will not sit owner-less forever. Anybody that spend the hundreds of millions that it will take to buy the Bills, is going to want results for that money. Meaning that Brandon only has until the estate is settled to prove he is that guy or the new owner will bring in some that he believes is. So if by secure, you mean, a year or two to get your resume ready then, continue on as is.

Even if that were the case, I don't think risking some of the future assets of the company (draft picks) on a sketchy move is the best way to endear yourself to a future employer.

[CoolBreeze]

Brad Johnson was not 100% average, and he was 100% better than EJ.

Deserving credit for a Super Bowl run is not the conversation we're having. It's deserving credit for not ****** up a Super Bowl run, and Johnson was perfectly suited for that. He was a low turnover, high completion guy, especially the season that Bucs won it all.

EJ is inaccurate, injury prone AND he's a fumbler. That's a horrid combination and exactly the type of QB that could neutralize a great Defense-- and I don't mean a a great opposing Defense.

Put EJ on the 1985 Bears and they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl.

See I don't understand your reasoning. Lets not forget EJ was a rookie this past season. He played ten games and in ten games he passed for more yardage and TDs then Johnson did in nine games over two seasons to which he had 0 TDs. Its fair to say Johnson didn't play near as much as EJ did his rookie year, and that's because he wasn't good enough.

Johnson had multiple seasons where his INTs out numbered his TDs. Many games you'd see Johnson have 15-20 completions for 100-150 yds no TDs. Sorry he was average. EJ may fumble, but Johnson fumbled too. Only difference is Manuel can actually do some damage on the ground.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Right you are.

That organization hurt itself more than their ego knows. They put an injured asset - one that they paid a hefty price for - directly into harms' way. They played mind games with a kid about his physical condition - they know sports injuries.

Like everyone, I've been lied to. I've told people that I understand why you are lying, I will accept that. But be aware - if you lie to me now, I shall never trust you again.

IMO, unless he and WAS are very successful and they fork over Ft. Knox, he will bolt at the first financially sound opportunity.

Don't know if i agree with the bolded part. The fact is (reported anyway) that RG3 and Shanahan disliked and distrusted each other, whereas the man signing the paychecks loves RG3. Now that the guy that RG3 hates is gone, I don't think it will happen that way

[Mace]

Brad Johnson was not 100% average, and he was 100% better than EJ.

Deserving credit for a Super Bowl run is not the conversation we're having. It's deserving credit for not ****** up a Super Bowl run, and Johnson was perfectly suited for that. He was a low turnover, high completion guy, especially the season that Bucs won it all.

EJ is inaccurate, injury prone AND he's a fumbler. That's a horrid combination and exactly the type of QB that could neutralize a great Defense-- and I don't mean a a great opposing Defense.

Put EJ on the 1985 Bears and they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl.

Oooh, gotta argue with you here Wagon. I don't know what Manuel has, but Johnson had this feeble noodle arm, and couldn't throw past 10 yards without the ball going end over end, without Penningtons chickenwire torso excuse. Wasn't even particularly smart and was majorly gifted by fate in pulling off the occasional end over end pass and shrieking dump off enough to gain a title. Oh Johnson was just so not even average, would throw up a ball and run the other way screaming.

Yeah I'm being overly mean to Brad Johnson, but he was really Jeff Tuel-ish for a whole career and startlingly succeeded once in a while enough to land an inexplicable title, much to his own amazement. You have to admit, it was funny watching Brad Johnson as a pro.

[feldspar]

Lets not forget EJ was a rookie this past season. He played ten games and in ten games he passed for more yardage and TDs then Johnson did in nine games over two seasons to which he had 0 TDs.

Wow, I've seen people manipulate stats to strengthen their position, but this is ridiculous. In fact, it's downright dishonest. You are talking about 2 Brad Johnson years where he didn't even start a single game and only attempted a handful of passes. In fact, in 5 of those nine games, he only attempted 9 total passes. Then you turn around and say that somebody that played entire games had more yards and TDs as if that means anything? Wow.


Its fair to say Johnson didn't play near as much as EJ did his rookie year, and that's because he wasn't good enough.

I'm glad you continue to be so fair.

It's also fair to say that EJ Manuel would not have played in his rookie year either if Warren Moon, a Hall of Fame quarterback, was on his team either. That's because Manuel wouldn't have been good enough.

I'm not even talking up Brad Johnson here, but let's keep the conversation within the constrains of reality.

[better days]

I don't think so. Everyone turned on Griffin this season, but the guy rushed back to the field from a major knee injury to play for a coach that was actively trying to get himself fired. I don't think his book is written yet.

Time will tell, but he cost the Skins THREE #1 picks & a #2 pick. Including the #2 pick in this draft.

That is a STEEP price to pay & RGIII needs to be a HOF QB for it not to be a STUPID trade.

[CoolBreeze]

Wow, I've seen people manipulate stats to strengthen their position, but this is ridiculous. In fact, it's downright dishonest. You are talking about 2 Brad Johnson years where he didn't even start a single game and only attempted a handful of passes. In fact, in 5 of those nine games, he only attempted 9 total passes. Then you turn around and say that somebody that played entire games had more yards and TDs as if that means anything? Wow.



I'm glad you continue to be so fair.

It's also fair to say that EJ Manuel would not have played in his rookie year either if Warren Moon, a Hall of Fame quarterback, was on his team either. That's because Manuel wouldn't have been good enough.

I'm not even talking up Brad Johnson here, but let's keep the conversation within the constrains of reality.

Oh I know I stretch the facts, and I really don't care. I was just told Johnson was 100% better than Manuel. That's hard to debate when he has a SB ring. So i'll pull out anything I can get lol

[feldspar]

Oh I know I stretch the facts, and I really don't care. I was just told Johnson was 100% better than Manuel. That's hard to debate when he has a SB ring. So i'll pull out anything I can get lol

Ha.

An unscrupulous fella such as yourself can perhaps make a killing being a used car salesman.