Is EJ Manuel Better Than We Think He Is?

[BillsImpossible]

58.8% completion percentage as a rookie in 2013.

11 TD's and 9 Int's in 10 games played.

A 4-6 starting record that could easily be 5-5 if Stevie Johnson and Scott Chandler didn't fumble in Toronto.

In his first ever game as a professional football player, EJ Manuel completed 18 out of 27 attempts for a 66.7% completion percentage, 2 TD's and 0 picks against the New England Patriots in a 21-23 loss.

In his second game as a pro, coming off a hard loss EJ Manuel played great against a very good Carolina Panthers team, completing 27 out of 39 attempts for 296 yards and had a 69.2% completion percentage in his first win as a pro.

Not bad, kid.

In his third game as a starting professional quarterback in the NFL, EJ Manuel played his second worst game of the season in his first road game in New York with a 45.2% completion percentage, but threw for 243 yards, had 1 TD, and 0 picks against a very good Jets defense in a close 20-27 loss.

In EJ Manuel's fourth game, he once again did not play well at all, but the Bills somehow won the game against the Ravens in the clutch.

And then came Cleveland. Let's just skip over that one and move on 1 month and 1 week later...

In his sixth game starting in the National Football League, coming off another injury to his knee, EJ Manuel went 22/39 for 155 yards, threw 1 TD and 1 Int in Pittsburgh playing on sand and mud.

In his 7th game as a rookie quarterback, EJ Manuel had his best game of the season against the New York Jets hitting on 20 out of 28 attempts, for 245 yards, 2 TD's and 0 picks, crushing the Jets 37-14.

In his 8th game, EJ Manuel didn't play great, threw for 210 yards, 1 TD, 0 picks and his stats would have looked a hell of a lot better if Chandler or Johnson weren't eating Canadian Butterfingers.

In Manuel's 9th game, the Bills got smoked in Tampa. It was the only game he played in all season that wasn't close. Every other game he played in was close.

In the last game of his rookie season against Jacksonville, EJ Manuel was 17 of 24 for his second highest completion percentage of the season (70.8%) threw 2 TD's and 1 pick in a win.

10 games total, 3 knee injuries, and 3 months after the season ended I'm starting to think EJ Manuel is going to be the franchise quarterback the Bills have been looking for.

[jayhall93]

No one will give him any credit until he takes us to the playoffs.

[ParanoidAndroid]

When I watched EJ throw his first TD which turned out to be Robert Woods first TD, I had the feeling it was the start of something. Did anyone ever find out if a rookie-to-rookie first TD completion in the season opener had ever been done before?

[Mike]

Often I think he is worst than we think he is

[TacklingDummy]

Not seeing it.

28th in Comp. %
32nd YDS/A
29th RATE
33rd YDS/G
28th Total QBR

[BillsImpossible]

Not seeing it.

28th in Comp. %
32nd YDS/A
29th RATE
33rd YDS/G
28th Total QBR

33rd? Where'd that come from?

[Goobylal]

We'll find out this year. There were numerous factors that conspired to make him to struggle last year. If they go heavy on offense in the draft, there are no more excuses.

[TacklingDummy]

33rd? Where'd that come from?
Espn

espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYardsPerGame

[Luisito23]

EJ sucks.

[feldspar]

Often I think he is worst than we think he is

Nothing is ever anything other than what a person thinks it is, relative to the person that thinks it. Heavy, huh? So if reality is perception, you are always right, at least as far as you are concerned.

Therefore, EJ Manuel can never be better than a person thinks he is to that person.

So the answer to the OP is no, he's not better than we think he is...as if everyone ever agreed on anything in the first place.

[Skooby]

So far, all I see is a rookie who couldn't stay healthy.

[swiper]

Let's watch a little video...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000252504/Week-4-Ravens-vs-Bills-highlights

Has one of the Manuel to Woods passes. Not really a great video of Manuel. Shows him hitting on 2 passes. One to a wide open Woods for a TD. The other he throws high to a tall receiver - a safe throw. But the video of all those Flacco INTs is great to see.

[Don't Panic]

I think he is. There's no doubt the jury is still out but if he can stay healthy, I think he's going to be good. Looking at his rankings after a disjointed, injury-plagued rookie year is not a fair assessment. I think by the end of year three he is fully settled in as a pretty good QB in this league.

[Jan Reimers]

Could we maybe give EJ another season, hopefully a full one? He was injured during preseason, which caused him to miss valuable practice and games, then played only 10 regular season contests. Could we also get him another receiver and a decent left guard and right tackle?

We won't know anything until he puts in another season, hopefully with a better supporting cast.

[Night Train]

He gets another year to show he can stay healthy and develop. If not, his replacement comes in the 2015 draft.


Bills will draft plenty of help for the O in May, plus sign a couple more FA's before camp.

[The Jokeman]

Could we maybe give EJ another season, hopefully a full one? He was injured during preseason, which caused him to miss valuable practice and games, then played only 10 regular season contests. Could we also get him another receiver and a decent left guard and right tackle?

We won't know anything until he puts in another season, hopefully with a better supporting cast.

Yeah imagine what he'd do with a healthy Stevie Johnson too. I mean everyone remembers Manuel getting hurt but forgets his best receiving option was also hurt for most of the season. Personally I give another 20 or so games to see what he has. To me the biggest concern I had for his play last year was the inability to avoid injuries. It might be we/he rushed himself back after the preseason one but either way I liked his overall play, for a rookie, last year.

[Dr. Who]

I am certain that those who are certain that EJ will never be a good NFL qb are incapable of complex, nuanced thinking. You have to be able to project and to account for mitigating circumstances. Much easier to play to the peanut gallery with smug nastiness.

[jills]

58.8% completion percentage as a rookie in 2013.

11 TD's and 9 Int's in 10 games played.

A 4-6 starting record that could easily be 5-5 if Stevie Johnson and Scott Chandler didn't fumble in Toronto.

In his first ever game as a professional football player, EJ Manuel completed 18 out of 27 attempts for a 66.7% completion percentage, 2 TD's and 0 picks against the New England Patriots in a 21-23 loss.

In his second game as a pro, coming off a hard loss EJ Manuel played great against a very good Carolina Panthers team, completing 27 out of 39 attempts for 296 yards and had a 69.2% completion percentage in his first win as a pro.

Not bad, kid.

In his third game as a starting professional quarterback in the NFL, EJ Manuel played his second worst game of the season in his first road game in New York with a 45.2% completion percentage, but threw for 243 yards, had 1 TD, and 0 picks against a very good Jets defense in a close 20-27 loss.

In EJ Manuel's fourth game, he once again did not play well at all, but the Bills somehow won the game against the Ravens in the clutch.

And then came Cleveland. Let's just skip over that one and move on 1 month and 1 week later...

In his sixth game starting in the National Football League, coming off another injury to his knee, EJ Manuel went 22/39 for 155 yards, threw 1 TD and 1 Int in Pittsburgh playing on sand and mud.

In his 7th game as a rookie quarterback, EJ Manuel had his best game of the season against the New York Jets hitting on 20 out of 28 attempts, for 245 yards, 2 TD's and 0 picks, crushing the Jets 37-14.

In his 8th game, EJ Manuel didn't play great, threw for 210 yards, 1 TD, 0 picks and his stats would have looked a hell of a lot better if Chandler or Johnson weren't eating Canadian Butterfingers.

In Manuel's 9th game, the Bills got smoked in Tampa. It was the only game he played in all season that wasn't close. Every other game he played in was close.

In the last game of his rookie season against Jacksonville, EJ Manuel was 17 of 24 for his second highest completion percentage of the season (70.8%) threw 2 TD's and 1 pick in a win.

10 games total, 3 knee injuries, and 3 months after the season ended I'm starting to think EJ Manuel is going to be the franchise quarterback the Bills have been looking for.

Funny how you state if it wasn't for Stevie and Chandler sucking he would have another W, I think the same credit goes for the defense who won games in spite of Manuel.

Let's not act like we was carrying this team, because that's what franchise QB's do.

[Victor7]

Often I think he is worst than we think he is

This

So far he's Trent 2.0 in my book.

[EDS]

58.8% completion percentage as a rookie in 2013.

11 TD's and 9 Int's in 10 games played.

A 4-6 starting record that could easily be 5-5 if Stevie Johnson and Scott Chandler didn't fumble in Toronto.

In his first ever game as a professional football player, EJ Manuel completed 18 out of 27 attempts for a 66.7% completion percentage, 2 TD's and 0 picks against the New England Patriots in a 21-23 loss.

In his second game as a pro, coming off a hard loss EJ Manuel played great against a very good Carolina Panthers team, completing 27 out of 39 attempts for 296 yards and had a 69.2% completion percentage in his first win as a pro.

Not bad, kid.

In his third game as a starting professional quarterback in the NFL, EJ Manuel played his second worst game of the season in his first road game in New York with a 45.2% completion percentage, but threw for 243 yards, had 1 TD, and 0 picks against a very good Jets defense in a close 20-27 loss.

In EJ Manuel's fourth game, he once again did not play well at all, but the Bills somehow won the game against the Ravens in the clutch.

And then came Cleveland. Let's just skip over that one and move on 1 month and 1 week later...

In his sixth game starting in the National Football League, coming off another injury to his knee, EJ Manuel went 22/39 for 155 yards, threw 1 TD and 1 Int in Pittsburgh playing on sand and mud.

In his 7th game as a rookie quarterback, EJ Manuel had his best game of the season against the New York Jets hitting on 20 out of 28 attempts, for 245 yards, 2 TD's and 0 picks, crushing the Jets 37-14.

In his 8th game, EJ Manuel didn't play great, threw for 210 yards, 1 TD, 0 picks and his stats would have looked a hell of a lot better if Chandler or Johnson weren't eating Canadian Butterfingers.

In Manuel's 9th game, the Bills got smoked in Tampa. It was the only game he played in all season that wasn't close. Every other game he played in was close.

In the last game of his rookie season against Jacksonville, EJ Manuel was 17 of 24 for his second highest completion percentage of the season (70.8%) threw 2 TD's and 1 pick in a win.

10 games total, 3 knee injuries, and 3 months after the season ended I'm starting to think EJ Manuel is going to be the franchise quarterback the Bills have been looking for.

You totally got me! I had the typical (and I bet expected) reaction of anger coming from my deeply ingrained skepticism of all connections between the Bills and success stemming from the team's decades of futility when I realized the JOKE was on ME!

Happy April's Fool's day!

[Yasgur's Farm]

Funny how you state if it wasn't for Stevie and Chandler sucking he would have another W, I think the same credit goes for the defense who won games in spite of Manuel.

Let's not act like we was carrying this team, because that's what franchise QB's do.The OP is not making excuses for EJ... Just asking the question.

BTW... Speaking of "in spite of"...

Week 1 NE - L - Good enough to win
Week 2 CAR - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive
Week 3 NYJ - L - Not good enough to win
Week 4 BAL - W - In spite of
CLE - L - Good enough to win but injured
PIT - L - Good enough to win
NYJ - W - Good enough to win
ATL - L - Good enough to win - Should have had game winning drive(s)
TAM - L - Not good enough to win
JAX - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive

Summary...
4 Wins (Includes 1 Win in spite of VS BAL & 1 win should have had vs ATL)
7 Good enough to win
3 Not good enough to win
2 Game winning drives (should have had 1 more vs ATL)

That's probably admirable enough for a rookie QB in 31 other cities.

[swiper]

:yucky:

[trapezeus]

he is what he is until he proves otherwise. i'm fine running with him again this year, but i would like to see another qb aside from thad pushing him.

thad played really well for who he is and he deserves the 3rd spot. but that second spot needs to be much better and push the envelope to make EJ better or get the number 2 ready to be number 1

[Bill Cody]

he is what he is until he proves otherwise

at that point would you say he is what he isn't?

[mayotm]

The OP is not making excuses for EJ... Just asking the question.

BTW... Speaking of "in spite of"...

Week 1 NE - L - Good enough to win
Week 2 CAR - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive
Week 3 NYJ - L - Not good enough to win
Week 4 BAL - W - In spite of
CLE - L - Good enough to win but injured
PIT - L - Good enough to win
NYJ - W - Good enough to win
ATL - L - Good enough to win - Should have had game winning drive(s)
TAM - L - Not good enough to win
JAX - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive

Summary...
4 Wins (Includes 1 Win in spite of VS BAL & 1 win should have had vs ATL)
7 Good enough to win
3 Not good enough to win
2 Game winning drives (should have had 1 more vs ATL)

That's probably admirable enough for a rookie QB in 31 other cities.I like EJ, but he was absolutely atrocious against Pittsburgh. Did you see that game? He was nowhere close to "good enough to win".

[alohabillsfan]

Pretty deep QB class this year not to pick one up, if the bills pass they are fools!

[Dr. Who]

Rookie qb first game back from injury. Probably don't want to extrapolate from that performance to form a holistic judgement. Or than again, go ahead. Sweeping generalization is a sign of genius with many posters.

[trapezeus]

just saying there were a lot of factors that can make you go either way on EJ and you wouldn't be wrong. without a full season its hard to know if he was plateauing. when he looked uncomfortable, he looked like he was forcing passes. in that second jets game when the jets imploded, he looked really relaxed and without worry.

he can't get hurt this season for week. that's the sad reality. And if he struggles like some thing we could, the team deserves to have a second option that can carry the defense's work forward.

this is a defensive team. it can win on defense if they are mistake free on offense and also get better from last year. they have to switch from being very good to dominating.

[Goobylal]

The OP is not making excuses for EJ... Just asking the question.

BTW... Speaking of "in spite of"...

Week 1 NE - L - Good enough to win
Week 2 CAR - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive
Week 3 NYJ - L - Not good enough to win
Week 4 BAL - W - In spite of
CLE - L - Good enough to win but injured
PIT - L - Good enough to win
NYJ - W - Good enough to win
ATL - L - Good enough to win - Should have had game winning drive(s)
TAM - L - Not good enough to win
JAX - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive

Summary...
4 Wins (Includes 1 Win in spite of VS BAL & 1 win should have had vs ATL)
7 Good enough to win
3 Not good enough to win
2 Game winning drives (should have had 1 more vs ATL)

That's probably admirable enough for a rookie QB in 31 other cities.
Yeah, I wouldn't mention the Pgh game as "good enough to win," but the others for sure and you can toss both Dols games, which he would have won, seeing as how Lewis did little in them.

[mayotm]

Rookie qb first game back from injury. Probably don't want to extrapolate from that performance to form a holistic judgement. Or than again, go ahead. Sweeping generalization is a sign of genius with many posters.Guess you missed the part where I stated that I like EJ. I simply pointed out that he was awful against Pittsburgh and was not "good enough to win"

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yeah, I wouldn't mention the Pgh game as "good enough to win," but the others for sure and you can toss both Dols games, which he would have won, seeing as how Lewis did little in them.


I like EJ, but he was absolutely atrocious against Pittsburgh. Did you see that game? He was nowhere close to "good enough to win".I could very easily be persuaded to remove that game from the "good enough" category... So that makes 6 of 10 games in which he was "good enough to win".

[Dr. Who]

Guess you missed the part where I stated that I like EJ. I simply pointed out that he was awful against Pittsburgh and was not "good enough to win"

Yes, I missed the context. Sorry about that.

[WagonCircler]

Bills had a QB who couldn't pass
Soon turned out he had knees of glass
Seemed like the real thing, only to find
Doug was dead wrong, time to hit rewind.

With apologies to the sexiest woman in Rock & Roll ever.

16812

[The Jokeman]

Bills had a QB who couldn't pass
Soon turned out he had knees of glass
Seemed like the real thing, only to find
Doug was dead wrong, time to hit rewind.

With apologies to the sexiest woman in Rock & Roll ever.

Age didn't agree with your choice but to me even now

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/J/Joan-Jett-531004-3-402.jpg
is still hot at 55.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

My thoughts, take em or leave em:

1) Can he stay healthy or is he a glass knee/glass ass like Trent Edwards and Robosack respectively?
2) He's just entering year two, it takes a year or two to learn the game. Although he showed flashes last year, so did Trent and so did JP, I want consistency and constant improvement. Sure, he can have a **** the bed game, even Peyton and Brady occassionally have one, but on the whole we have to be able to say he put the team on his back and got a W. He is accurate. He throws lots of TDs and no picks. He manages the game well. He inspires confident. He has to show this

[jills]

The OP is not making excuses for EJ... Just asking the question.

BTW... Speaking of "in spite of"...

Week 1 NE - L - Good enough to win
Week 2 CAR - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive
Week 3 NYJ - L - Not good enough to win
Week 4 BAL - W - In spite of
CLE - L - Good enough to win but injured
PIT - L - Good enough to win
NYJ - W - Good enough to win
ATL - L - Good enough to win - Should have had game winning drive(s)
TAM - L - Not good enough to win
JAX - W - Good enough to win - Game winning drive

Summary...
4 Wins (Includes 1 Win in spite of VS BAL & 1 win should have had vs ATL)
7 Good enough to win
3 Not good enough to win
2 Game winning drives (should have had 1 more vs ATL)

That's probably admirable enough for a rookie QB in 31 other cities.

Yes, the OP was making excuses.

Here's my take:

Week 1 NE - L - Good enough to win
Week 2 CAR - W - In spite of - Game winning drive thanks to a phantom PI with 14 seconds left, to go along with 1 Td, 1 Int, 1 fumble (1 lost) and 296 yards, thank God the defense forced 1 Int and 6 sacks
Week 3 NYJ - L - Not good enough to win
Week 4 BAL - W - In spite of
CLE - L - Not good enough to win but injured 0 Td's and 129 yds is not good enough to win in my book
PIT - L - Not good enough to win 1 Td and 1 Int to go along with 155 yards while playing craptastic
NYJ - W - Good enough to win
ATL - L - Good enough to win - Should have had game winning drive(s) but he didn't.
TAM - L - Not good enough to win
JAX - W - In spite of - Game winning drive against one of the worst teams in the league, to go along with 193 yards, 2 Td's 1 Int and 2 fumbles (1 lost), thank God the defense forced 2 Int's 3 fumbles and 5 sacks in that game.

So in reality:

4 wins
3 good enough to win
4 not good enough to win
3 in spite of
2 game winning drives (thanks to a phantom PI and the other against one of the worst teams in the league)

This guy's potential screams HOFer to me.:up:

[Goobylal]

The Bills would have won 8 games (the 6 they did plus the Browns and Chefs games) with EJ playing the whole year, should have won a 9th (Atlanta), and arguably should have won the Pats season opener. The Saints, Steelers, Bucs, first Jets, second Pats, and Cincy games likely not.

[Dr. Who]

All this speculation is largely moot. EJ is going to be the starting qb and most likely it will be evident which direction his play is trending. Those who presume to know with certainty are pretenders. I think it's rational to hope he will improve and I admit, aside from the fact that he's an easy person to root for, I'd like him to do well not only for the team and the city, but to dispel the arrogance of his naysayers.

[better days]

Age didn't agree with your choice but to me even now

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/J/Joan-Jett-531004-3-402.jpg
is still hot at 55.

Blondie was HOT, but I think Tina Turner, Pat Benatar & Cher are in the running for sexiest ever with her.

[Novacane]

I know a lot of people here think they know but fact is they don't. Like it or not he's the starting QB next year so I sure hope he's better than we think he is.

[stuckincincy]

All this speculation is largely moot. EJ is going to be the starting qb and most likely it will be evident which direction his play is trending. Those who presume to know with certainty are pretenders. I think it's rational to hope he will improve and I admit, aside from the fact that he's an easy person to root for, I'd like him to do well not only for the team and the city, but to dispel the arrogance of his naysayers.


Well said.

[Mr. Pink]

All this speculation is largely moot. EJ is going to be the starting qb and most likely it will be evident which direction his play is trending. Those who presume to know with certainty are pretenders. I think it's rational to hope he will improve and I admit, aside from the fact that he's an easy person to root for, I'd like him to do well not only for the team and the city, but to dispel the arrogance of his naysayers.

Just like the pretenders who thought JP was garbage from the start right?

This dude is worse than JP.

[stuckincincy]

Just like the pretenders who thought JP was garbage from the start right?

This dude is worse than JP.

Well - what's you plan? Draft another QB early? Who? What round?

[Bill Cody]

Just like the pretenders who thought JP was garbage from the start right?

This dude is worse than JP.

we'll see. There is a pretty good chance he improves this year and maybe by a lot, still a very inexperienced player. Manuel also seems to have the strong support of his team mates. My take is "did you see any sign that he could do it" and the answer is yes, at home against the Jets. Can he play at that level most of the time? Why not? An NFL QB builds confidence with experience.

JP was not a leader, not even close. And he had zero sense of pressure. And he was dumb which was strike 3. You were fond of him because he threw a nice deep ball. But that was all he had to offer. The book on Manuel is still open.

[Goobylal]

All this speculation is largely moot. EJ is going to be the starting qb and most likely it will be evident which direction his play is trending. Those who presume to know with certainty are pretenders. I think it's rational to hope he will improve and I admit, aside from the fact that he's an easy person to root for, I'd like him to do well not only for the team and the city, but to dispel the arrogance of his naysayers.
No, it's rational to give up on a 1st round QB after 10 games in an injury-marred season with a lousy OC and many inexperienced players and take another QB in the 1st round the following draft because that's a proven recipe for success and tons of teams have done it.

Just like the pretenders who thought JP was garbage from the start right?

This dude is worse than JP.
LOL! Sure. That 2nd season, which was his first season starting, was SO much better than EJ's!

[better days]

Just like the pretenders who thought JP was garbage from the start right?

This dude is worse than JP.

Maybe. Or maybe like the pretenders who wanted Reich to start over Kelly before the Bills went to the Super Bowl the first time.

[Dr. Who]

Just like the pretenders who thought JP was garbage from the start right?

This dude is worse than JP.

Honestly, I don't trust registered sex offenders who reside in the fifth ring of hell. They say everyone finds their level.

[swiper]

No, it's rational to give up on a 1st round QB after 10 games in an injury-marred season with a lousy OC and many inexperienced players and take another QB in the 1st round the following draft because that's a proven recipe for success and tons of teams have done it.

It's reasonable to give up on a guy that can't see the field, has huge footwork problems, has flailing throwing motion and no pocket presence. And, add to it, is fragile as glass. Try watching the games.

[Goobylal]

It's reasonable to give up on a guy that can't see the field, has huge footwork problems, has flailing throwing motion and no pocket presence. And, add to it, is fragile as glass. Try watching the games.
Try removing your head from your ass.

[swiper]

Try removing your head from your ass.

You first.

[Goobylal]

You first.
Who helped you with that comeback?

[Goobylal]

But okay, just for laughs, give me the name of the QB the Bills should draft, who will be better than EJ? I'll make sure I save this post for the end of 2014.

[swiper]

Who helped you with that comeback?


Same guy that helped you with yours. You realize how stupid your responses look. Par for the course.

I'll give you a name that will always play at a better level. And he was on the Bills roster last year: Travaris Jackson.

Alex Smith, Matt Schaub, Matt Moore all always will be better than Manuel too.

[swiper]

The morons that want to "upgrade" the offense around Manuel show their football ignorance. The top 10 to 15 QBs in the league would have gone quite far with the 2013 Bills offense. The obvious glaring hole on the Bills is their lack of a QB.

[Goobylal]

Same guy that helped you with yours. You realize how stupid your responses look. Par for the course.

I'll give you a name that will always play at a better level. And he was on the Bills roster last year: Travaris Jackson.

Alex Smith, Matt Schaub, Matt Moore all always will be better than Manuel too.
LOL! Like I said, remove your head from your ass. I'm sorry EJ banged your sister or kicked sand in your face at the beach or snubbed you at a party.

[swiper]

LOL! Like I said, remove your head from your ass. I'm sorry EJ banged your sister or kicked sand in your face at the beach or snubbed you at a party.


Intelligence is clearly not your strong suit. Sorry for that short bus.

[The last buffalo fan]

Oh Lord!

[Goobylal]

Intelligence is clearly not your strong suit. Sorry for that short bus.
Says the person who brought up that collection of QB's. Unfortunately you don't have the mental capacity to see why you look like a ****** for doing so.

[Mr. Pink]

we'll see. There is a pretty good chance he improves this year and maybe by a lot, still a very inexperienced player. Manuel also seems to have the strong support of his team mates. My take is "did you see any sign that he could do it" and the answer is yes, at home against the Jets. Can he play at that level most of the time? Why not? An NFL QB builds confidence with experience.

JP was not a leader, not even close. And he had zero sense of pressure. And he was dumb which was strike 3. You were fond of him because he threw a nice deep ball. But that was all he had to offer. The book on Manuel is still open.

I was fond of him? You must have me confused with someone else. I said long ago Losman was the worst QB on the Bills not named Bruce Mathison, I have been proven wrong. He's better than someone else now.

Hell, EJ isn't even the best QB on the roster. Not that I'd advocate building the team around Thad Lewis because he's clearly not good enough either but he's still better than EJ.

[Goobylal]

I was fond of him? You must have me confused with someone else. I said long ago Losman was the worst QB on the Bills not named Bruce Mathison, I have been proven wrong. He's better than someone else now.

Hell, EJ isn't even the best QB on the roster. Not that I'd advocate building the team around Thad Lewis because he's clearly not good enough either but he's still better than EJ.
No, he isn't.

[alohabillsfan]

I'm in the camp not ready to give up on EJ, with that said I'm also not all in and would draft another anywhere from round 3 or 4. I would target just about any of the sec qb's coming out including metzenberger, Murray, Or shaw.

[WagonCircler]

Age didn't agree with your choice but to me even now

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/J/Joan-Jett-531004-3-402.jpg
is still hot at 55.

I think Joan hits for the other team, Brother. But she definitely did age better that Debbie.

[swiper]

Says the person who brought up that collection of QB's. Unfortunately you don't have the mental capacity to see why you look like a ****** for doing so.

No. Each of those QBs has is better than EJ Manuel if he were playing at his "ceiling."

[Goobylal]

No. Each of those QBs has is better than EJ Manuel if he were playing at his "ceiling."
So EJ has reached his ceiling? And Alex Smith didn't take 5 seasons to reach his, which is game manager? Schaub's last season wasn't worse than EJ's and he might be done? Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Moore are as fragile as you think EJ is and both had half a season in their 8/9 year careers where you could say they played well?

[swiper]

So EJ has reached his ceiling? And Alex Smith didn't take 5 seasons to reach his, which is game manager? Schaub's last season wasn't worse than EJ's and he might be done? Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Moore are as fragile as you think EJ is and both had half a season in their 8/9 year careers where you could say they played well?

Yes you are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Alex Smith had the 3rd highest QB rating in 2012. Schaub was the league's leading passer in 2009. He threw for 4008 yards and a 91 rating in 2012. Matt Moore blew Ryan Fitzpatrick out of the water in 2011 putting up 2500 yards in only 13 games with an 87 rating. Stop being a tool.

[Goobylal]

Yes you are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Alex Smith had the 3rd highest QB rating in 2012. Schaub was the league's leading passer in 2009. He threw for 4008 yards and a 91 rating in 2012. Matt Moore blew Ryan Fitzpatrick out of the water in 2011 putting up 2500 yards in only 13 games with an 87 rating. Stop being a tool.
Yeah, Matt Moore and Tarvaris Jackson are great. After 8 and 9 years in the league respectively, they're still proven backup quality QB's (like Fitz). Genius. As for Schaub, his season last year was horrible and he looks like he's done, i.e. no more hitting his "ceiling." And Alex Smith still took 5 years to become a game manager. You're ready to give up on EJ after 10 games and are essentially claiming he's at his "ceiling." Hate to break it to you but it's 2014, not 2012 or 2009. You sound like a jilted schoolgirl.

[Mike]

SOme of you guys are amazing. If we were talking Geno Smith, would you still be making the same argument? Probably not.

And what about a guy like Russell Wilson?
Many of the homers downplay his achievements and skill yet give EJ the benefit of the doubt ?#@%

So, lets at least have a semblance of a framework and some intellectual honesty. If one season is not enough to judge, than it is not enough time to judge anyone; and anyone is everyone from Luck and Newton to Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russel (sp).

So please make coherent and consistent argument.

[Mike]

Regarding EJ from watching him -and in my opinion it can take 10min to see if a QB has 'it'- I don't think EJ will ever becomes an Elite QB in the NFL. He wont be Brees, or Brady or Manning good. He won't be Rogers, Luck, Wilson good.

I don't even think he will be second tier good: Rivers, Eli, Big Ben, Keap, Matt Ryan, etc...

[better days]

SOme of you guys are amazing. If we were talking Geno Smith, would you still be making the same argument? Probably not.

And what about a guy like Russell Wilson?
Many of the homers downplay his achievements and skill yet give EJ the benefit of the doubt ?#@%

So, lets at least have a semblance of a framework and some intellectual honesty. If one season is not enough to judge, than it is not enough time to judge anyone; and anyone is everyone from Luck and Newton to Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russel (sp).

So please make coherent and consistent argument.

I would agree one year is not enough time to judge any QB.

JP & Trent both had moments early on where they looked great.

EJ could follow the same path as those two, or he could be a franchise QB, only time will tell.

[JoeMama]

The first hurdle EJ has to jump is to show he can stay healthy.

He has gimpy knees and shouldn't take unnecessary hits that will relegate him to the sideline for 40% of the season.

The second obstacle is his downfield accuracy. He should be on the practice field night and day doing drills to improve his placement this offseason. We need better touch on the deep ball from him.

Other than that, he shows relatively good pocket presence, barring a few games where the o-line just completely mailed it in late in the season (IE Tampa). He spreads the ball around well. He has pretty good poise. I like his leadership. I think he's a cerebral QB who's smart enough to patch up his game.

There's stuff to like about EJ, but he's got to beat the rep that he's a tin man who can't hit the broad side of a barn beyond 20 yards.

[chris66]

58.8% completion percentage as a rookie in 2013.

11 TD's and 9 Int's in 10 games played.

A 4-6 starting record that could easily be 5-5 if Stevie Johnson and Scott Chandler didn't fumble in Toronto.

In his first ever game as a professional football player, EJ Manuel completed 18 out of 27 attempts for a 66.7% completion percentage, 2 TD's and 0 picks against the New England Patriots in a 21-23 loss.

In his second game as a pro, coming off a hard loss EJ Manuel played great against a very good Carolina Panthers team, completing 27 out of 39 attempts for 296 yards and had a 69.2% completion percentage in his first win as a pro.

Not bad, kid.

In his third game as a starting professional quarterback in the NFL, EJ Manuel played his second worst game of the season in his first road game in New York with a 45.2% completion percentage, but threw for 243 yards, had 1 TD, and 0 picks against a very good Jets defense in a close 20-27 loss.

In EJ Manuel's fourth game, he once again did not play well at all, but the Bills somehow won the game against the Ravens in the clutch.

And then came Cleveland. Let's just skip over that one and move on 1 month and 1 week later...

In his sixth game starting in the National Football League, coming off another injury to his knee, EJ Manuel went 22/39 for 155 yards, threw 1 TD and 1 Int in Pittsburgh playing on sand and mud.

In his 7th game as a rookie quarterback, EJ Manuel had his best game of the season against the New York Jets hitting on 20 out of 28 attempts, for 245 yards, 2 TD's and 0 picks, crushing the Jets 37-14.

In his 8th game, EJ Manuel didn't play great, threw for 210 yards, 1 TD, 0 picks and his stats would have looked a hell of a lot better if Chandler or Johnson weren't eating Canadian Butterfingers.

In Manuel's 9th game, the Bills got smoked in Tampa. It was the only game he played in all season that wasn't close. Every other game he played in was close.

In the last game of his rookie season against Jacksonville, EJ Manuel was 17 of 24 for his second highest completion percentage of the season (70.8%) threw 2 TD's and 1 pick in a win.

10 games total, 3 knee injuries, and 3 months after the season ended I'm starting to think EJ Manuel is going to be the franchise quarterback the Bills have been looking for.

Not enough games. Remember fitz always started off hot for 3-4 games till teams got film on him.

[Goobylal]

Not enough games. Remember fitz always started off hot for 3-4 games till teams got film on him.
Fitz problem was that he had no arm strength. You can't teach that.

[chris66]

Fitz problem was that he had no arm strength. You can't teach that.

Plenty of bad QB's have arm strength. what you cant teach is football iq

[kishoph]

Regarding EJ from watching him -and in my opinion it can take 10min to see if a QB has 'it'- I don't think EJ will ever becomes an Elite QB in the NFL. He wont be Brees, or Brady or Manning good. He won't be Rogers, Luck, Wilson good.


I'd bet that's what the Atlanta Falcons thought when the got rid of Brett Favre, or when Tampa got rid of Steve Young, or when Green Bay got rid of Kurt Warner. That's 3 off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more that took more than 10 minutes (or 10 games) to show what they were capable of.

[Goobylal]

Plenty of bad QB's have arm strength. what you cant teach is football iq
True. But while having arm strength won't make you a good QB, not having it most certainly will make you a bad one.

[GvilleBills]

True. But while having arm strength won't make you a good QB, not having it most certainly will make you a bad one.


I don't consider Chad Pennington a bad QB, but I do think his career is Manuel's ceiling as of now.

Personally, 10 games is too soon to make a distinction. But Manuel's shortcomings are the same ones he's had for 4 years. He has not shown improvement. Jimbo is an offensive mind and he couldn't get EJ to progress in 3 years. This isn't a division 3 coaching staff here...this is FSU.

He's had one year in the NFL so far, and an abridged one at that. He gets next year. He's my QB, I'm rooting for him.
But to think this is some snap judgement for many of us is simply inaccurate.

[Mike]

Put it this way, when EJ was drafted many ofus went over to FSU boards and inquired about our 1st round pick.

What many of the knowledgable fans communicated was that EJ was a player that had great leadership and all the physical ability in the world and that translated well on the field most of the time which lead to him being 'frustrating' to watch. Moreover, some FSU fans eluded to how inconsistent and limited his production was and lastly how their freshman backup was better.

At this point, of course many on this site blasted poster on FSU boards for suggesting that a freshman QB was better than a 1st round pick! We'll those boys do know football and EJ better than many here as EJ proved to be every bit what he has been for last 4years all the while, a freshman QB went on to win Hiesman & BCS championship with the same damn team & coaches that previously held back our 1st round rookie QB.

If EJ stayed in college one more year, he would not even have been the best college QB this year. He would not be one if the top 3 QBs in this class. Heck, he would not even have been the best QB on his own team.

[Mike]

I'd bet that's what the Atlanta Falcons thought when the got rid of Brett Favre, or when Tampa got rid of Steve Young, or when Green Bay got rid of Kurt Warner. That's 3 off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more that took more than 10 minutes (or 10 games) to show what they were capable of.

Did you WATCH those guys play?

So your saying that you could not tell the difference in quality between Favre, Young, & Warner VS EJ in their first seasons as NFL starters?

[feldspar]

Did you WATCH those guys play?

So your saying that you could not tell the difference in quality between Favre, Young, & Warner VS EJ in their first seasons as NFL starters?

As a rookie, Favre's first pass was intercepted for a touchdown. He threw 4 passes his rookie year, and he completed two of them...to the OTHER TEAM. Did not complete a single pass.

Young had USFL experience before going to Tampa Bay, where he really did kinda suck.

Favre and Young were STILL traded for value though. Green Bay gave a first rounder to Atlanta for Favre, and the 49ers gave Tampa a 2nd and 4th for Young.

Warner was a lot different. He went undrafted, and then Green Bay brought him in. He didn't even make the team. Don't think he was ready yet. The first year he actually played, Warner was like 28, won the Super Bowl, and was league MVP. Pretty amazing story.

Dunno why I'm talking like this. If anybody wants to bring up examples of QBs, there are tons more QBs that never panned out than the other way around. Everybody has their own story.

[gebobs]

As a rookie, Favre's first pass was intercepted for a touchdown. He threw 4 passes his rookie year, and he completed two of them...to the OTHER TEAM. Did not complete a single pass.

Young had USFL experience before going to Tampa Bay, where he really did kinda suck.

Favre and Young were STILL traded for value though. Green Bay gave a first rounder to Atlanta for Favre, and the 49ers gave Tampa a 2nd and 4th for Young.

Warner was a lot different. He went undrafted, and then Green Bay brought him in. He didn't even make the team. Don't think he was ready yet. The first year he actually played, Warner was like 28, won the Super Bowl, and was league MVP. Pretty amazing story.

Dunno why I'm talking like this. If anybody wants to bring up examples of QBs, there are tons more QBs that never panned out than the other way around. Everybody has their own story.

So why bring up the few anomalies that sucked early and then went on to be great or even pretty good?

[swiper]

As a rookie, Favre's first pass was intercepted for a touchdown. He threw 4 passes his rookie year, and he completed two of them...to the OTHER TEAM. Did not complete a single pass.

Young had USFL experience before going to Tampa Bay, where he really did kinda suck.

Favre and Young were STILL traded for value though. Green Bay gave a first rounder to Atlanta for Favre, and the 49ers gave Tampa a 2nd and 4th for Young.

Warner was a lot different. He went undrafted, and then Green Bay brought him in. He didn't even make the team. Don't think he was ready yet. The first year he actually played, Warner was like 28, won the Super Bowl, and was league MVP. Pretty amazing story.

Dunno why I'm talking like this. If anybody wants to bring up examples of QBs, there are tons more QBs that never panned out than the other way around. Everybody has their own story.

Reading comprehension? He said did you watch them in their first year as starters. Starters. Very different for those 3 vs Manuel. What you posted has nothing to do with the quote you cited.

[TacklingDummy]

So EJ has reached his ceiling? And Alex Smith didn't take 5 seasons to reach his, which is game manager? Schaub's last season wasn't worse than EJ's and he might be done? Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Moore are as fragile as you think EJ is and both had half a season in their 8/9 year careers where you could say they played well?

Those are the names I like to hear when comparing EJ to someone. :ill:

Makes me so excited.

[Bert102176]

he was a rookie last year a damn rookie, give him a chance, if we don't give him a chance we won't know and I see so many idiots saying we need a QB what if we never gave Jim Kelly a chance or Joe Ferguson he was a rookie give EJ a chance.

[Goobylal]

Reading comprehension? He said did you watch them in their first year as starters. Starters. Very different for those 3 vs Manuel. What you posted has nothing to do with the quote you cited.
What was so special about Favre's first season starting (which was his 2nd in the league)? As for Young, he inherited a SB team that should have won the NFCCG the year before and gone to the SB. And Warner was an anomaly.

Those are the names I like to hear when comparing EJ to someone. :ill:

Makes me so excited.
I wasn't the one comparing him to them.

[justasportsfan]

I expected EJ to play better than he did in his rookie year. Can't completely blame him for his shortcomings but I do worry if he can fix them. I hope so. We're still waiting for Jim Kelly's replacement.

[jills]

As a rookie, Favre's first pass was intercepted for a touchdown. He threw 4 passes his rookie year, and he completed two of them...to the OTHER TEAM. Did not complete a single pass.

Young had USFL experience before going to Tampa Bay, where he really did kinda suck.

Favre and Young were STILL traded for value though. Green Bay gave a first rounder to Atlanta for Favre, and the 49ers gave Tampa a 2nd and 4th for Young.

Warner was a lot different. He went undrafted, and then Green Bay brought him in. He didn't even make the team. Don't think he was ready yet. The first year he actually played, Warner was like 28, won the Super Bowl, and was league MVP. Pretty amazing story.

Dunno why I'm talking like this. If anybody wants to bring up examples of QBs, there are tons more QBs that never panned out than the other way around. Everybody has their own story.

For every Warner, Favre and Young there are thousands who suck (like Manuel).

[Goobylal]

For every Warner, Favre and Young there are thousands who suck (like Manuel).
There are also thousands of armchair GMs who suck (like...).

[better days]

Reading comprehension? He said did you watch them in their first year as starters. Starters. Very different for those 3 vs Manuel. What you posted has nothing to do with the quote you cited.

LMAO, YOU are preaching reading comprehension????????????????????????????????

[BB4ever]

Looking the part and producing while plaing the part are 2 different things.

[feldspar]

For every Warner, Favre and Young there are thousands who suck

Sure thing, but thousands is probably overkill to make your obvious point.

There is some luck involved too. People forget that. People act like it's rocket science sometimes, but there is always varying amounts of risk and a whole lot that is unforeseeable with almost any draft prospect. Most teams are always looking for a better quarterback, and there's not many franchise guys out there. Gotta get lucky to be in position to grab a guy that will pan out...hopefully pan out. It's tough.

[BB4ever]

Hes better at only checking down.

[WagonCircler]

Sure thing, but thousands is probably overkill to make your obvious point.

There is some luck involved too. People forget that. People act like it's rocket science sometimes, but there is always varying amounts of risk and a whole lot that is unforeseeable with almost any draft prospect. Most teams are always looking for a better quarterback, and there's not many franchise guys out there. Gotta get lucky to be in position to grab a guy that will pan out...hopefully pan out. It's tough.

That's my huge problem with the Bills. So damned stubborn when they make a pick, even though it's obvious they shat the bed.

It's by far the most important position in the NFL. Why the hell wouldn't you keep drafting them until you get it right?

Especially when Whaley has a built-in excuse to turn the page. Buddy picked EJ.

[Goobylal]

If JP's and Trent's completion percentage and YPA could improve after their rookie seasons, EJ's will as well. Health is another matter, but despite his knee problems last year, I don't think he's injury-prone. Get him the weapons and a stout defense.

[WagonCircler]

If JP's and Trent's completion percentage and YPA could improve after their rookie seasons, EJ's will as well. Health is another matter, but despite his knee problems last year, I don't think he's injury-prone. Get him the weapons and a stout defense.

Yeah. Those guys worked out so well.

If that's what we have to aspire to, then just sell the damn team to Bon Jovi.

[Woodman]

no I'm afraid he's not.

[WagonCircler]

Health is another matter, but despite his knee problems last year, I don't think he's injury-prone. Get him the weapons and a stout defense.

Three

separate

knee injuries.

If he's not injury prone, what is he? An injury enthusiast?

[Goobylal]

Yeah. Those guys worked out so well.

If that's what we have to aspire to, then just sell the damn team to Bon Jovi.
I knew someone (yes you) would come to this "conclusion." Thanks for not disappointing!

Three

separate

knee injuries.

If he's not injury prone, what is he? An injury enthusiast?
How many knee injuries, and injuries in general, did he have in college? As for last year, the 2nd one was self-inflicted while the first and 3rd were to the same knee. Again it's far too early to say he's injury-prone.

[WagonCircler]

I knew someone (yes you) would come to this "conclusion." Thanks for not disappointing!

How many knee injuries, and injuries in general, did he have in college? As for last year, the 2nd one was self-inflicted while the first and 3rd were to the same knee. Again it's far too early to say he's injury-prone.

Self inflicted? Did his knee try to kill itself?

Some QBs go their entire careers without a knee injury. EJ missed almost half the season with not one, not two, but THREE separate knee injuries.

I've got some bad news for you--injured knees don't get stronger. Once is an accident. twice is a habit. Three times is a trend.

He's injury prone.

[swiper]

If JP's and Trent's completion percentage and YPA could improve after their rookie seasons, EJ's will as well. Health is another matter, but despite his knee problems last year, I don't think he's injury-prone. Get him the weapons and a stout defense.

He had more than enough "weapons" last year. Tom Brady could have taken that team to the Super Bowl. So could have ten other QBs. Your argument fails miserably.

Your second failure is not seeing all his injuries in college.

[swiper]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/107939/manuels-latest-injury-should-concern-bills

[stuckincincy]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/107939/manuels-latest-injury-should-concern-bills

It's a fair guess that BUF will select a day 2 qb.

[Goobylal]

Self inflicted? Did his knee try to kill itself?

Some QBs go their entire careers without a knee injury. EJ missed almost half the season with not one, not two, but THREE separate knee injuries.

I've got some bad news for you--injured knees don't get stronger. Once is an accident. twice is a habit. Three times is a trend.

He's injury prone.
EJ eschewed going out of bounds in the Cleveland game and the player hit him square on his planted right leg. He's lucky it wasn't worse than what it was, but he learned a valuable lesson. As for his left knee, he suffered meniscal tears both times. He had surgery to correct it over the off-season, and gave it the proper amount of time to heal/rest, unlike the first surgery. It shouldn't be an issue going forward, but if it is, I'll let you say "see, I told you so!"


He had more than enough "weapons" last year. Tom Brady could have taken that team to the Super Bowl. So could have ten other QBs. Your argument fails miserably.

Your second failure is not seeing all his injuries in college.
LOL! Brady couldn't even take his own team to a SB last year. I'd love to hear about the other 9 QB's you fancy could do the same, outside of Manning and maybe Brees, in 10 games no less.

And how many games did Manuel miss in college due to injury?

[swiper]

LOL! Brady couldn't even take his own team to a SB last year. I'd love to hear about the other 9 QB's you fancy could do the same, outside of Manning and maybe Brees, in 10 games no less.

And how many games did Manuel miss in college due to injury?

Take your head out of your ass. He's a bottom 1/3 QB at his ceiling. Only one team per year wins the Super Bowl Sally. There are several QBs that have done so. You ridiculing Brady shows your ignorance. But we see that in everything you post. And Manuel had multiple injury problems in college. IIRC hand, shoulder, head (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/11/24/3686776/ej-manuel-injury-fsu-florida) and more.

He is so great. He's a prodigy. His senior season has him second in FSU passing history behind only the great Chris Weinke. ROFLMAO.

You gotta feel sorry for Robert Woods and Goodwin.

[Goobylal]

Take your head out of your ass. He's a bottom 1/3 QB at his ceiling. Only one team per year wins the Super Bowl Sally. There are several QBs that have done so. You ridiculing Brady shows your ignorance. But we see that in everything you post. And Manuel had multiple injury problems in college. IIRC hand, shoulder, head (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/11/24/3686776/ej-manuel-injury-fsu-florida) and more.

He is so great. He's a prodigy. His senior season has him second in FSU passing history behind only the great Chris Weinke. ROFLMAO.

You gotta feel sorry for Robert Woods and Goodwin.
I can't argue with genius statements like "he's a bottom 1/3 QB at his ceiling." Because we've seen even close to his ceiling. If that's you without your head in your ass...

You said "10 QB's could have taken the Bills to the SB" and then changed it to "win the SB." And I didn't ridicule Brady, just told the truth, i.e. he failed to take his own team to the SB. Try some reading comprehension or at least sticking to your statements.

And again, how many games did EJ miss due to injury in college? Players get injured and often times play through them, you know. I hope you're not one of those people who is saying the Bills should take Murray or Mettenberger, because you'd be a raging hypocrite.

Wow, Chris Weinke. Steve Stenstrom passed for more yards than Luck at Stanford in fewer games played. Your point?

And you talk about EJ being injury-prone, and you bring up Goodwin? LOL!

[swiper]

I can't argue with genius statements like "he's a bottom 1/3 QB at his ceiling." Because we've seen even close to his ceiling. If that's you without your head in your ass...

You said "10 QB's could have taken the Bills to the SB" and then changed it to "win the SB." And I didn't ridicule Brady, just told the truth, i.e. he failed to take his own team to the SB. Try some reading comprehension or at least sticking to your statements.

And again, how many games did EJ miss due to injury in college? Players get injured and often times play through them, you know. I hope you're not one of those people who is saying the Bills should take Murray or Mettenberger, because you'd be a raging hypocrite.

Wow, Chris Weinke. Steve Stenstrom passed for more yards than Luck at Stanford in fewer games played. Your point?

And you talk about EJ being injury-prone, and you bring up Goodwin? LOL!

Way to deflect Sally. And I changed nothing. My reference was to ANY Super Bowl, yet you want to enumerate all the QBs that failed to make the LAST Super Bowl. Did Manuel play 4 years? Oops. I guess he played through all those injuries for just 2 years. What is that? 20 games? That doesn't mean anything as it can't change what he missed last year. He's in the NFL now. He runs like a stick. He's going to continue to get hammered whether they draft a guard and a tackle or not. To not admit that the QB position is still the weakest position on this team is just silly.

[Goobylal]

Way to deflect Sally. And I changed nothing. My reference was to ANY Super Bowl, yet you want to enumerate all the QBs that failed to make the LAST Super Bowl. Did Manuel play 4 years? Oops. I guess he played through all those injuries for just 2 years. What is that? 20 games? That doesn't mean anything as it can't change what he missed last year. He's in the NFL now. He runs like a stick. He's going to continue to get hammered whether they draft a guard and a tackle or not. To not admit that the QB position is still the weakest position on this team is just silly.
Deflect. LOL! You clearly stated that (sorry, I made a mistake, you actually said) 11 QB's could have taken the Bills to the SB last year and EJ was the only reason holding it back. So you changed it because you realized how ******ed it sounded when I called you on it, because you didn't think before you wrote it. Then you tried to weasel out of the missed games in college due to injury question.

As for last year, again had EJ not taken that shot in the Browns game, the Bills win at least 8 games and should have won the Atlanta game if not for Stevie and Chandler, which would have put them in the playoffs. This despite poor non-defensive coaching (the real weakness on the team until proven otherwise). And even then, the defense was in the bottom half in scoring defense.

As for the QB position, there's little the Bills could do in FA. As for the draft, it's looking like a much weaker-than-projected QB class. And the problem is that there are 5, arguably 6 (Rams) teams who need QB's who pick before the Bills and just 4 QB's considered to have a 1st round grade (if even). If any of those top-4 QB's get past the 6 teams, why would the Bills want them at 9? And the later in the draft you go, the longer the odds of a guy hitting, never mind guys like Murray and Mettenberger who suffered major knee injuries in college and therefore should be completely written-off, right? But by all means, take a late round flyer on a guy and pray he hits because it's a worthwhile gamble.

So what you're left with is making EJ the starter, giving him all the starting reps and starts in pre-season, putting as much talent around him as you can, and see what he does. If he falls flat, you get a new QB in 2015. If he does well, great. As I said, if guys like JP and Trent can show improvement in completion rate and YPA after their rookie years, it stands to reason EJ can and will. But it doesn't mean he'll flame out like they did because JP wasn't a leader and Trent got his brain scrambled.

[YardRat]

C'mon...you can't seriously believe that 1/3 of the QB's in the league would have led last year's Bills team to the Super Bowl, can you?

[WagonCircler]

EJ eschewed going out of bounds in the Cleveland game and the player hit him square on his planted right leg. He's lucky it wasn't worse than what it was, but he learned a valuable lesson.

Every single one of these injuries weakened his knees, which makes him even more susceptible to injury than he was in a season that he missed 40% of due to.....wait for it.....injuries.

This would make him "i-n-j-u-r-y p-r-o-n-e"

And "He learned his lesson"? WTF is that? You don't know that. He learned his lesson not to play a game where giant, fast men are launching themselves at him?

Please.

[WagonCircler]

As for last year, again had EJ not taken that shot in the Browns game,.

Had my Aunt been born with a penis, she's be my Uncle.

It happened. You can't wish the injuries away.

By the way, his accuracy is piss poor.

[Goobylal]

Every single one of these injuries weakened his knees, which makes him even more susceptible to injury than he was in a season that he missed 40% of due to.....wait for it.....injuries.

This would make him "i-n-j-u-r-y p-r-o-n-e"

And "He learned his lesson"? WTF is that? You don't know that. He learned his lesson not to play a game where giant, fast men are launching themselves at him?

Please.
I don't know that he's learned his lesson, but you know that his knees are more susceptible to injury now? LOL!

Please.

Had my Aunt been born with a penis, she's be my Uncle.

It happened. You can't wish the injuries away.

By the way, his accuracy is piss poor.
Who said anything about wishing the injuries away? I said that the 2nd one could have been avoided if he'd gone out of bounds like he should have. And that he'd have won the Browns, Chefs, and two Dols games if he'd played in them, while other players blew the Altanta game. It's far less of a stretch than say, claiming 1/3 of the QBs in the NFL could have led the Bills to the SB last year or that you're a doctor and know how stable EJ's knees are.

And EJ's accuracy will improve. Like I said, if JP's and Trent's could improve...

[WagonCircler]

I don't know that he's learned his lesson, but you know that his knees are more susceptible to injury now? LOL!.

Absolutely. Damaged knees are weaker knees. They're not like bones, that fuse and become stronger.

And the "learning his lesson" part is laughable.

You've never actually played football, have you? Or been on the field for an NFL game. The speed is unimaginable until you actually witness it. There's never going to be the exact same situation for EJ as there was in Cleveland. Every play is different. The angles of attack are different, the distances between the sideline and defender are different. And QBs don't have eyes in the back of their heads.

He's going to injure his knees again. And they'll come back even weaker.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Way to deflect Sally. And I changed nothing. My reference was to ANY Super Bowl, yet you want to enumerate all the QBs that failed to make the LAST Super Bowl. Did Manuel play 4 years? Oops. I guess he played through all those injuries for just 2 years. What is that? 20 games? That doesn't mean anything as it can't change what he missed last year. He's in the NFL now. He runs like a stick. He's going to continue to get hammered whether they draft a guard and a tackle or not. To not admit that the QB position is still the weakest position on this team is just silly.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I just need to make sure I note that you are a serious douche.

[The Popcorn]

We will find out this year if he is better. The injuries seem to be fluke-like when he really hasn't been known to be injury proned. Hopefully, he got into some kind of strength and conditional program that may help eliminate that problem. He should be adjusted to the speed of the NFL. That shouldn't be an excuse. He also has had a year with the majority of WRs and TEs. They should be on the same page with the majority of the playbook now. The addition of Williams gives him an additional target on offense. We just hope he can keep his head screwed on straight and become a WR that makes big plays. The backfield seems to be stable and appears to be dangerous for the passing game. Beef up the OL and EJ has no excuses this year.

[Goobylal]

Absolutely. Damaged knees are weaker knees. They're not like bones, that fuse and become stronger.

And the "learning his lesson" part is laughable.

You've never actually played football, have you? Or been on the field for an NFL game. The speed is unimaginable until you actually witness it. There's never going to be the exact same situation for EJ as there was in Cleveland. Every play is different. The angles of attack are different, the distances between the sideline and defender are different. And QBs don't have eyes in the back of their heads.

He's going to injure his knees again. And they'll come back even weaker.
Um, no, you can't make an unfounded statement like "his knees are weaker," not to mention tossing in a laughable comparison to bones theoretically being stronger. Talk to Gronk about how much stronger his forearm is.

Meniscal tears like the ones he suffered in his left knee don't create greater instability and saying it will over and over won't make it come true, so stop pretending you're a doctor. And a sprain doesn't necessarily make the knee more unstable either, although I'm sure if he takes a similar shot to his knee, he'll suffer another sprain, like any QB would (and again at least he didn't tear his ACL). As I said, if presented with the same situation again, he'd go out of bounds next time.

BTW, he's planning on wearing knee braces, so worries about instability are pretty much moot. I think it's overkill but if it doesn't significantly impair his mobility, why not use them?

We will find out this year if he is better. The injuries seem to be fluke-like when he really hasn't been known to be injury proned. Hopefully, he got into some kind of strength and conditional program that may help eliminate that problem. He should be adjusted to the speed of the NFL. That shouldn't be an excuse. He also has had a year with the majority of WRs and TEs. They should be on the same page with the majority of the playbook now. The addition of Williams gives him an additional target on offense. We just hope he can keep his head screwed on straight and become a WR that makes big plays. The backfield seems to be stable and appears to be dangerous for the passing game. Beef up the OL and EJ has no excuses this year.
It takes awhile to get adjusted to the speed of the NFL. And you do that by playing more. He'll be given the majority of reps and starts through OTA's, minicamps, training camp, and pre-season, and that will help enormously. He missed a lot of time and gelling with his receivers having to split reps with Kolb and due to injury. But yes, he gets just this season to prove himself one way or another.