Why Homers aren't True Fans

[Mike]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

This is just like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist. Regardless of scientific discovery, evolution, sexism, etc... Fundamentalist always believe when it's hardest to believe and pat themselves on the back for being True believers as a result.

But I disagree

It's easy to be a blind homer. It's cowardly, it's distructive, it's dishonest, it's a feminine trait.

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

This is the real fan, not some blind homer that's justifying his fanhood with make believe. Not that feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity and honesty to see things clearly instead being clouded by his own emotions.

Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Realist are the true Super fan that is there even when he knows the cup is 90% empty.

[Skooby]

We've sucked 14 years a running but this is going to be our year, which I've said 14 years a running.

[better days]

Well, Pats* homer that you are Mike look in the mirror.

What this board does not need are pseudo Bills fans like you.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Another one of these nonsense bull**** waste of time threads.

I am whatever I want to be just the same as any person in the world.

Don't tell me what to do.

[Mike]

Well, Pats* homer that you are Mike look in the mirror.

What this board does not need are pseudo Bills fans like you.

Your a quasi Bills fan

[better days]

Your a quasi Bills fan

Mike, you are only on this board to trash the Bills & defend the CHEATING Pats*

[stuckincincy]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

This is just like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist. Regardless of scientific discovery, evolution, sexism, etc... Fundamentalist always believe when it's hardest to believe and pat themselves on the back for being True believers as a result.

But I disagree

It's easy to be a blind homer. It's cowardly, it's distructive, it's dishonest, it's a feminine trait.

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

This is the real fan, not some blind homer that's justifying his fanhood with make believe. Not that feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity and honesty to see things clearly instead being clouded by his own emotions.

Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Realist are the true Super fan that is there even when he knows the cup is 90% empty.

Decent screed!

Fans, homers, dupes...you name it. Pro sports defy logic - enjoy them or not.

[OpIv37]

Another one of these nonsense bull**** waste of time threads.

I am whatever I want to be just the same as any person in the world.

Don't tell me what to do.
He's not telling you what to do. He's pointing out an inherent flaw in your mentality. Of course, it's easier to dismiss it as bull**** than to maybe reconsider your point of view.....

[Night Train]

It's another LOOK AT ME moment.

These threads are death..

[THATHURMANATOR]

He's not telling you what to do. He's pointing out an inherent flaw in your mentality. Of course, it's easier to dismiss it as bull**** than to maybe reconsider your point of view.....

YUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

It is something I do for fun. WHO CARES?

[justasportsfan]

"Who can piss higher" thread.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's another LOOK AT ME moment.

These threads are death..

Yep

HEY EVERYONE YOU NEED TO BE A FAN OF A TEAM JUST LIKE IIIII AM.

[better days]

The only time you may be at a Bills game Mike is when they play your team, the CHEATING Pats*

[OpIv37]

YUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

It is something I do for fun. WHO CARES?

Well I don't know about you, but I NEVER want to have a flawed, inconsistent mentality, even if it's about something I do just for fun.

[Jeff1220]

Before posting, people should ask themselves, "Does this really need to be said?"

[OpIv37]

It's another LOOK AT ME moment.

These threads are death..
Disagree. This is the type of thread that comes from the utter frustration of trying to have a realistic discussion about this team on this board. Too many people can't stand to hear the slightest criticism, no matter how factual it is

And it just gets nauseating to hear people who claim to be fans continually defending the same losers that are keeping this team from winning over and over again.

[justasportsfan]

YUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

It is something I do for fun. WHO CARES?
Havent you heard?You are not allowed to have fun when someone else is miserable.

[mayotm]

What an original thread. I'm sure there will be some new and profound thoughts on the "homer" versus "realist" topic.

[stuckincincy]

Another one of these nonsense bull**** waste of time threads.

I am whatever I want to be just the same as any person in the world.

Don't tell me what to do.

Why is it a waste of time thread? Nothing is going on. The poster merely published a thread to elicit comment and keep things going.

Stop being an overly-sensitive plick. :drive:

[Lucidvizion]

Mike, the major flaw in your argument is that "fan" is short for fanatic. So "like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist" is exactly what being a fan is.

Sorry, you're not allowed to change the real meaning of the word. Start calling yourself a Bills critic if you want.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Well I don't know about you, but I NEVER want to have a flawed, inconsistent mentality, even if it's about something I do just for fun.

Sorry mister perfect!!! I just like to relax every now and again. Can you just let me for once? COME ONNNN

- - - Updated - - -


Mike, the major flaw in your argument is that "fan" is short for fanatic. So "like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist" is exactly what being a fan is.

Sorry, you're not allowed to change the real meaning of the word. Start calling yourself a Bills critic if you want.

Hmmmm that is a good point.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why is it a waste of time thread? Nothing is going on. The poster merely published a thread to elicit comment and keep things going.

Stop being an overly-sensitive plick. :drive:

Because it has been posted almost exactly the same as this hundreds of times.

Ok fine I will stop being sensitive I suppose.

[Mike]

Disagree. This is the type of thread that comes from the utter frustration of trying to have a realistic discussion about this team on this board. Too many people can't stand to hear the slightest criticism, no matter how factual it is

And it just gets nauseating to hear people who claim to be fans continually defending the same losers that are keeping this team from winning over and over again.

I've come on this board for a number of years now and I can say with a good certainty that the most objective threads are those about players we want before the draft.

Those are football threads. Real discussions and a look into football.

As soon as the jerseys go on, the perspectives change. The real football talk goes out the window. There is no objective look at the Bills or even how they line up against their week 1 opponent. So, it's a bit disappointing.

[trapezeus]

we respected Ralph's passing for a week. then it kind of devolved back to regularly scheduled offseason banter.

it's too early for the draft and too far past FA. Normally the draft is earlier, but because it's a full month back, we got nothing to discuss.

for what it's worth, i am on the side of the realist. There are too many things that don't change at OBD for them to be successful because it was planned. it's been sheer luck they've been unable to sneak into the playoffs once, and it will be sheer luck when they actually do.

that being said, go bills.

[SquishDaFish]

LOOK AT ME GUYS!!!!! What a giant waist of time this thread is. We are all fans that's all that matters. We all root the same way on Sundays. Who gives a **** who thinks what

[OpIv37]

Mike, the major flaw in your argument is that "fan" is short for fanatic. So "like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist" is exactly what being a fan is.

Sorry, you're not allowed to change the real meaning of the word. Start calling yourself a Bills critic if you want.

Being a fanatic means wanting the team to win. If you want the team to win, it's hypocritical to NOT criticize the loser players, coaches and FO staff who are holding the team back.

[better days]

Well I don't know about you, but I NEVER want to have a flawed, inconsistent mentality, even if it's about something I do just for fun.

Well, you do have a flawed mentality Op. You are not a realist, you are a pessimist. That is just as flawed as an optimist.

Even when the Bills do something good, you find something to complain about.

[better days]

I've come on this board for a number of years now and I can say with a good certainty that the most objective threads are those about players we want before the draft.

Those are football threads. Real discussions and a look into football.

As soon as the jerseys go on, the perspectives change. The real football talk goes out the window. There is no objective look at the Bills or even how they line up against their week 1 opponent. So, it's a bit disappointing.

Yeah, you have been on this board, trashing the Bills & defending the Pats*.

[OpIv37]

Well, you do have a flawed mentality Op. You are not a realist, you are a pessimist. That is just as flawed as an optimist.

Even when the Bills do something good, you find something to complain about.
Even when the Bills do something good, they lose a hell of a lot more than they win. Their results are being defined by the bad, not the good. That's reality, not pessimism.

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=better days;3932711]Well, you do have a flawed mentality Op. You are not a realist, you are a pessimist. That is just as flawed as an optimist.


Optimists should be drowned in a half-filled pool.

Pessimists should be drowned in a full pool.

Pragmatists should be eliminated in the most cost-effective way.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't get how people think that they can evaluate who is "true fan" based on how they view the team. If the person is rooting against the Bills that is one thing.

But whether one is a blind homer or somebody that hates everything the team does or something in-between like most of us are, we are all fans.

To try and say otherwise is silly, stupid and self-centered.

[Novacane]

Another one of these nonsense bull**** waste of time threads.

I am whatever I want to be just the same as any person in the world.

Don't tell me what to do.


THIS! I get so sick of others deciding who's a "true fan" and who isn't.

[OpIv37]

I don't get how people think that they can evaluate who is "true fan" based on how they view the team. If the person is rooting against the Bills that is one thing.

But whether one is a blind homer or somebody that hates everything the team does or something in-between like most of us are, we are all fans.

To try and say otherwise is silly, stupid and self-centered.

Best post of the thread, by far.

The problem is that the "homers" all too often pull the "you're not a real fan" card while arguing with someone who is criticizing the team, no matter how apt the criticism is. To some of them, it's like they can't even comprehend how a fan could acknowledge a flaw with the team even as the team is constantly losing.

That's where the frustration comes in and how threads like this get started.

[Mike]

Yeah, you have been on this board, trashing the Bills & defending the Pats*.

See that's where your blinders ON
I'm not defending the Pats & Trashing the Bills. I'm not !

What I'm actually doing is Defending a Winning organization and Trashing a Loosing organization.

It could just as easily be the Packers & the Lions, the Browns & the Steelers, Saints & Bucs, the Seahawks & the Jags

Recognizing an organization for what it is doesn't make me a fan or anti fan.

[feldspar]

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

...Realist are the true Super fan...



Ha, ha. No, it doesn't take balls, honesty, and guts to ever watch a football game no matter how bad your team is. Give me a ****ing break. You really see yourself this way? And you call "homers" delusional.

The only thing a person is when he goes around calling himself a "true super fan" is a major asswipe no matter how right he is about anything else.


Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Ok. Sure. Yeah.

And your whole argument paints a skewed picture. Even the most informed objective observers disagree about things across the board. If a person happens to be more optimistic than you, who are ALWAYS based firmly in "reality," about particulars, then you are going to call him "a feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity or honesty to see things clearly?"

What a dick.

I personally don't draw a line in that sand between "realist" and "homer," pick a side and call myself superior in every way than the other. That's just pathetic.

[justasportsfan]

Mike, the major flaw in your argument is that "fan" is short for fanatic. So "like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist" is exactly what being a fan is.

Sorry, you're not allowed to change the real meaning of the word. Start calling yourself a Bills critic if you want.


well said. Is Kenny the Pinto GUy any less of a fan for not missing any of the bills game even if the bills sucked for over a decade?

[justasportsfan]

The problem is that the "homers" all too often pull the "you're not a real fan" card while arguing with someone who is criticizing the team, no matter how apt the criticism is.

the irony is we homers didn't start this thread.

[Pinkerton Security]

Best post of the thread, by far.

The problem is that the "homers" all too often pull the "you're not a real fan" card while arguing with someone who is criticizing the team, no matter how apt the criticism is. To some of them, it's like they can't even comprehend how a fan could acknowledge a flaw with the team even as the team is constantly losing.

That's where the frustration comes in and how threads like this get started.

News flash to homers and realists and everyone in between - this is an internet message board. If you are experiencing any sort of stress or anger based on what another human being types, step away from the computer and get back to the real world. Homers are going to be homers and realists are going to be negative until we are good again, nothing is going to change that. Get on with your life. To say one or the other is cowardly or 'distructive' as the OP spelled incorrectly is simply the saddest thing I have ever heard.

I come on here for Bills news because I enjoy following the Bills. Period. I could care less what anyone else thinks of my views.

[The Zone Ranger]

According to mikes logic the Saints fans and the Tampa fans are complete blind homers for sticking with their teams through their darkest hours. Sign me up.

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=NaturalBornSpiller;3932740]News flash to homers and realists and everyone in between - this is an internet message board. If you are experiencing any sort of stress or anger based on what another human being types, step away from the computer and get back to the real world. Homers are going to be homers and realists are going to be negative until we are good again, nothing is going to change that. Get on with your life. To say one or the other is cowardly or 'distructive' as the OP spelled incorrectly is simply the saddest thing I have ever heard.

I come on here for Bills news because I enjoy following the Bills. Period. I could care less what anyone else thinks of my views.[/QUOTE

Good post. Except for the part about not caring about others' views. Sure you do. I do. The fate if you don't will end up with you becoming a shunned, isolated, angry crab. Don't fall into the harshness trap, son.

[feldspar]

According to mikes logic the Saints fans and the Tampa fans are complete blind homers for sticking with their teams through their darkest hours. Sign me up.

Actually, Mike's logic says that the fans that knew that the Saints and Bucs sucked during these dark hours and still supported them...well they were just some sort of hero, really...displaying heroic qualities such as balls, guts, honesty and integrity. Of course, he would include himself in that category for some reason, and then turn around and take a crap on someone else that he sees as beneath him just because he projects that they don't support the team in the "real" way.

Really tragically pathetic.

[malvado78]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

This is just like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist. Regardless of scientific discovery, evolution, sexism, etc... Fundamentalist always believe when it's hardest to believe and pat themselves on the back for being True believers as a result.

But I disagree

It's easy to be a blind homer. It's cowardly, it's distructive, it's dishonest, it's a feminine trait.

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

This is the real fan, not some blind homer that's justifying his fanhood with make believe. Not that feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity and honesty to see things clearly instead being clouded by his own emotions.

Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Realist are the true Super fan that is there even when he knows the cup is 90% empty.

I happen to be a homer and a religious fundamentalist so I do not understand any of your points...

[feldspar]

I happen to be a homer and a religious fundamentalist so I do not understand any of your points...

His point is that he is way better than you. That's it.

[Mike]

I happen to be a homer and a religious fundamentalist so I do not understand any of your points...

Well said

[Jan Reimers]

It's sports, for crying out loud. You can be fanatical, analytical, intellectual, cool and dispassionate, or whipped into a frenzy every time you watch. Just try not to hurt yourself (as I did a few times when I was younger), or anyone else, and don't kick your dog when the Bills lose.

It's not Fido's fault, and it's not yours, either. But if you take every loss personally, then you are probably. . . a die hard, passionate FAN.

[M]

Let's not get carried away, people. According to Merriam Webster a fan is simply: an enthusiastic (emphasis added) devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator.

[Bill Cody]

Well I don't know about you, but I NEVER want to have a flawed, inconsistent mentality, even if it's about something I do just for fun.


lol

You must be a joy to be around

[sudzy]

Homers are true Bills fans. Maybe just naive. I'm guessing a lot of them are young and haven't endured the whole 14 year playoff drought. 14 years ago I was a homer. The revolving door of incompetent coaches and dud QBs has made it hard for me to believe that the next guy they promise will turn this team around will be any different.

[X-Era]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

This is just like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist. Regardless of scientific discovery, evolution, sexism, etc... Fundamentalist always believe when it's hardest to believe and pat themselves on the back for being True believers as a result.

But I disagree

It's easy to be a blind homer. It's cowardly, it's distructive, it's dishonest, it's a feminine trait.

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

This is the real fan, not some blind homer that's justifying his fanhood with make believe. Not that feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity and honesty to see things clearly instead being clouded by his own emotions.

Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Realist are the true Super fan that is there even when he knows the cup is 90% empty.
I don't think it's black and white. What's the point in being a "fan" when your not rooting for your team? There's a whole slew of real world problems to piss and moan about if that's your thing.

On the flip side, if you can't see that we stink and have for a long, long time you're simply not living in the real world.

Hope for the best but expect the worst. Being a fan is supposed to be enjoyable. It's supposed to be about loving football and enjoying your team playing the game. And as frustrating as it is to watch them lose, I'm still glad I can watch my team and that I have a team. Moreover, that there is some degree of honor in never giving up on them either.

Go through my posts over the years and I think you'll see both heavy criticism and praise. They've done some really great things and some really dumb things. Its an end sum game... winning. And we haven't. But I can still enjoy the ride overall while we get there.

One day this team will redeem those 4 SB losses. It will happen. And when it does I will enjoy every damn bit of it. Climbing the taller mountain is a harder path but it will also take you way higher.

[BertSquirtgum]

Another one of these nonsense bull**** waste of time threads.

I am whatever I want to be just the same as any person in the world.

Don't tell me what to do.

Nailed it

[X-Era]

It's sports, for crying out loud. You can be fanatical, analytical, intellectual, cool and dispassionate, or whipped into a frenzy every time you watch. Just try not to hurt yourself (as I did a few times when I was younger), or anyone else, and don't kick your dog when the Bills lose.

It's not Fido's fault, and it's not yours, either. But if you take every loss personally, then you are probably. . . a die hard, passionate FAN.What's even more ridiculous is a fan spending time on a message board not even talking about football but instead complaining about other fans on a message board. Around here sometimes that becomes it's own sport with it's own set of fans.

[OpIv37]

lol

You must be a joy to be around

You don't have to be a hypocrite to have fun.

[X-Era]

You don't have to be a hypocrite to have fun.Maybe not but it makes things more interesting.

:D:

[BertSquirtgum]

Well I don't know about you, but I NEVER want to have a flawed, inconsistent mentality, even if it's about something I do just for fun.

shut the **** up already. I've witnessed 5 years of your constant negative blabbering. You're the worst.

[cookie G]

News flash to homers and realists and everyone in between - this is an internet message board. If you are experiencing any sort of stress or anger based on what another human being types, step away from the computer and get back to the real world. Homers are going to be homers and realists are going to be negative until we are good again, nothing is going to change that. Get on with your life. To say one or the other is cowardly or 'distructive' as the OP spelled incorrectly is simply the saddest thing I have ever heard.

I come on here for Bills news because I enjoy following the Bills. Period. I could care less what anyone else thinks of my views.

Somewhere, MLK and Rosa Parks are reading this thread and saying.."he's talking about being a football fan, right?"

[DynaPaul]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

Also known as "groupthink" which is the state of mind when concurrence and approval seeking becomes so sought after in a cohesive clique that it overrides realistic appraisal of reality and alternative courses of action. Groupthink normally gives birth to "mindguards" who censor any consensus challenging information through a variety of techniques including ostracization, ad hominem attacks, and technological banishment. I've never approved of that in internet forums no matter what cause it was for and see outside opinions as a method of healthy debate. Unfortunately while on the internet often the basest of human faults become amplified because anonymity, diffusion, and distance.

[feldspar]

So many self-righteous asswipes out there that I may save some money on toilet paper.

If I said last year that Kiko Alonso would be in Rookie of the Year contention after the draft, what would the "realists" have said? And I DID love this kid coming out...that's in here somewhere. Maybe the people that REALLY know how bad everything is would say I'm an ******* for thinking such a homeristic thing and do their best to temper my enthusiasm on the subject, if not try to shoot me down entirely. They'd bring up character concerns and remind me that there is absolutely ZERO good reason to think such things.

It's things like this to me. Why somebody would become so jaded as to not enjoy (or at least entertain) somebody with some positive enthusiasm, regardless of how unfounded they think it is. Instead, they actually attack that person's intelligence or character. Unbelievable. Talk about a defeatist attitude...

[YardRat]

Some of you people need to learn how to enjoy the ride...even the bumpy parts.

[BuffaloRedleg]

If you are going to write an ******* thread, at least check it for spelling.

I'll be whatever type of fan I want to be and you can blow me.

[TigerJ]

Personally, I don't think there are that many pure homers as Mike seems to define them. I see fans that are more optimistic and fans who are less optimistic, but none who are completely blind to any possible negative.

[ZAZusmc03]

The amount of grammatical errors in the OP and this thread in general makes me immediately think of Billy Madison.

“What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

[OpIv37]

Some of you people need to learn how to enjoy the ride...even the bumpy parts.

Yeah well, the ride's become nothing but bumpy parts.

[YardRat]

Yeah well, the ride's become nothing but bumpy parts.

You're more than welcome to get off at any stop. The door is in the front, on the right.

[X-Era]

Yeah well, the ride's become nothing but bumpy parts.Who doesn't like feeling the mounds?

[CoolBreeze]

Yeah well, the ride's become nothing but bumpy parts.

That's what she said.

[swiper]

Yeah well, the ride's become nothing but bumpy parts.

Worse. It's one continuous bump.

[justasportsfan]

You're more than welcome to get off at any stop. The door is in the front, on the right.

I find it funny when people keep getting on the bumpy ride BY CHOICE and tell people that they are crazy for getting excited and enjoying it.

[OpIv37]

You're more than welcome to get off at any stop. The door is in the front, on the right.
And that's the whole point of this discussion. Realists know that its bumpy and can see the bumpy road out the front window.

Homers talk about how much fun it is even as they're puking from motion sickness.

I have to wonder how many homers would have gotten off already if they were mentally capable of comprehending how bad this team really is.

[justasportsfan]

And that's the whole point of this discussion. Realists know that its bumpy and can see the bumpy road out the front window.

Homers talk about how much fun it is even as they're puking from motion sickness.

I have to wonder how many homers would have gotten off already if they were mentally capable of comprehending how bad this team really is.

It's an emotional ride for us homers. You're the one who claims to have the brains to comprehend whats going to happen yet you choose to keep getting back on the ride even though you know you HATE IT AND KNOW YOU"RE GOING TO PUKE. So whose the one not using their brain here? It's not us homers for sure.

[OpIv37]

It's an emotional ride for us homers. You're the one who claims to have the brains to comprehend whats going to happen yet you choose to keep getting back on the ride even though you know you HATE IT AND KNOW YOU"RE GOING TO PUKE. So whose the one not using their brain here? It's not us homers for sure.

Because real fans don't get off because we know the ride is bumpy.

And no one who roots for this team- homer, realist or otherwise- is using their brain. Anyone using their brain would have given up on this team long ago.

If we get bad food or bad service in a restaurant, we don't go back.
If a TV show is boring we stop watching.
If our car keeps breaking down we trade it in for a more reliable one.
If our shoes wear out after a couple months we buy a different brand next time.

But when it comes to sports, we put our brains away and become a bunch of battered women. "I just knnnoooowww he won't do it again! He's serious this time!"

[justasportsfan]

But when it comes to sports, we put our brains away and become a bunch of battered women. "I just knnnoooowww he won't do it again! He's serious this time!"


I have to wonder how many homers would have gotten off already if they were mentally capable of comprehending how bad this team really is.


you CHOOSE to be battered women but we enjoy S&M. ;)

[better days]

And that's the whole point of this discussion. Realists know that its bumpy and can see the bumpy road out the front window.

Homers talk about how much fun it is even as they're puking from motion sickness.

I have to wonder how many homers would have gotten off already if they were mentally capable of comprehending how bad this team really is.

The question I have is why PESSIMISTS like you Op don't get off the ride?

I guess pessimists on this board are also masochists.

[better days]

^Because it'd be like trying to quit heroin after 30 years of abuse

Well, people on heroin ENJOY the ride.

The pessimists on this board, not so much.

[OpIv37]

Well, people on heroin ENJOY the ride.

The pessimists on this board, not so much.
Yeah they enjoy it to a point. Eventually they end up getting their ass kicked by dealers they owe or other junkies who want their stuff, and sucking dick in alleys so they can afford their habit. Then they're no longer enjoying the ride.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, people on heroin ENJOY the ride.

The pessimists on this board, not so much.
Yeah they enjoy it to a point. Eventually they end up getting their ass kicked by dealers they owe or other junkies who want their stuff, and sucking dick in alleys so they can afford their habit. Then they're no longer enjoying the ride.

[Bill Cody]

You don't have to be a hypocrite to have fun.

You don't have to be an ******* either.

[Patrick76777]

What a terribly annoying argument! Who cares either way? Incredible waste of time!

[Mike]

What a terribly annoying argument! Who cares either way? Incredible waste of time!

Your mere responce is hypocrisy in action.

[Mike]

Sometimes I wish I was a Bills optimist...as a realist you can't even enjoy score-boarding your detractors cause it means the Bills predictably lost again. Unwarranted homerism/optimism IS kinda cult-ish and frightening though. Tells me that person is mentally unstable

I told you so arguments are only defensible when the team wins or when your right in a good way otherwise your labeled as an attention whore.

[Mike]

The question I have is why PESSIMISTS like you Op don't get off the ride?

I guess pessimists on this board are also masochists.

I have been on here for a number of years and have read OPiv comments for the duration of my time here and I can say the following:

1) In years past OP has been one of the most accurate predictors of the Bills team as a whole, individual players and the quality of the FO & Coaches.

2) Each year his comments get construed as being negative

3) He constantly gets critised for his views

4) He doesn't gloat when correct

5) Eventhough he is consistantly correct no one really gives credence to his past performance

6) By now Smart & Logical human being would have schmo lower this much

7) Obviously he is not negative. If he was 'negative' he would be just as wrong as most 'positive' folk.

Instead he is a realist. If there is water in a jug, he calls it water; unlike many homers who believe the water will magically be turned into wine.

[YardRat]

And that's the whole point of this discussion. Realists know that its bumpy and can see the bumpy road out the front window.

Homers talk about how much fun it is even as they're puking from motion sickness.

I have to wonder how many homers would have gotten off already if they were mentally capable of comprehending how bad this team really is.

Realists don't latch on to *****ing points and hang on with dear life despite evidence to the contrary. Realists don't act like petulant, whiny-ass little spoiled brats that insist they deserve something because they feel they are entitled to it, and getting screwed if they don't get it.

[better days]

I have been on here for a number of years and have read OPiv comments for the duration of my time here and I can say the following:

1) In years past OP has been one of the most accurate predictors of the Bills team as a whole, individual players and the quality of the FO & Coaches.

2) Each year his comments get construed as being negative

3) He constantly gets critised for his views

4) He doesn't gloat when correct

5) Eventhough he is consistantly correct no one really gives credence to his past performance

6) By now Smart & Logical human being would have schmo lower this much

7) Obviously he is not negative. If he was 'negative' he would be just as wrong as most 'positive' folk.

Instead he is a realist. If there is water in a jug, he calls it water; unlike many homers who believe the water will magically be turned into wine.

What YardRat said.

[mayotm]

I have been on here for a number of years and have read OPiv comments for the duration of my time here and I can say the following:

1) In years past OP has been one of the most accurate predictors of the Bills team as a whole, individual players and the quality of the FO & Coaches.

2) Each year his comments get construed as being negative

3) He constantly gets critised for his views

4) He doesn't gloat when correct

5) Eventhough he is consistantly correct no one really gives credence to his past performance

6) By now Smart & Logical human being would have schmo lower this much

7) Obviously he is not negative. If he was 'negative' he would be just as wrong as most 'positive' folk.

Instead he is a realist. If there is water in a jug, he calls it water; unlike many homers who believe the water will magically be turned into wine.Boy, that's quite a crush you have on Op. Unfortunately for you, I think he is married.

[kishoph]

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[OpIv37]

The question I have is why PESSIMISTS like you Op don't get off the ride?

I guess pessimists on this board are also masochists.

First, I'm not a pessimist. Look at the results on the field. Things are as I say they are far more often than not.

Second, real fans don't get off no matter how bad things get. Only bandwagon jumpers get off. Yeah, it's supposed to be entertainment. It's supposed to be fun. But, sometimes the cookout gets rained out, sometimes your friend gets drunk and ruins a night out, sometimes a tv show has a lousy episode and sometimes (most of the time) our team loses. That's life- deal with it.

People like you and Thurm think that you are entitled to enjoy something because you label it "fun" or "entertainment" but you're not. Things aren't always what they want them to be. And it's completely illogical to claim to be a fan who wants this team to win but still enjoy this utter crap fest we've been served the last 14 years or so.

[OpIv37]

Realists don't latch on to *****ing points and hang on with dear life despite evidence to the contrary. Realists don't act like petulant, whiny-ass little spoiled brats that insist they deserve something because they feel they are entitled to it, and getting screwed if they don't get it.

wtf are you talking about?

[YardRat]

First, I'm not a pessimist. Look at the results on the field. Things are as I say they are far more often than not.

Second, real fans don't get off no matter how bad things get. Only bandwagon jumpers get off. Yeah, it's supposed to be entertainment. It's supposed to be fun. But, sometimes the cookout gets rained out, sometimes your friend gets drunk and ruins a night out, sometimes a tv show has a lousy episode and sometimes (most of the time) our team loses. That's life- deal with it.

People like you and Thurm think that you are entitled to enjoy something because you label it "fun" or "entertainment" but you're not. Things aren't always what they want them to be. And it's completely illogical to claim to be a fan who wants this team to win but still enjoy this utter crap fest we've been served the last 14 years or so.

Wow, seriously? It's up to you to determine what other individual's label as 'fun' or 'entertainment'? Why do you feel you are entitled to make that judgement?


wtf are you talking about?

You.

[OpIv37]

Wow, seriously? It's up to you to determine what other individual's label as 'fun' or 'entertainment'? Why do you feel you are entitled to make that judgement?



You.

I never said they can't label it. They can label it whatever they want. However, they're not entitled to have something be a certain way simply because thats how they chose to label it.


And that doesn't describe me in the slightest.

[YardRat]

First, I'm not a pessimist. Look at the results on the field. Things are as I say they are far more often than not.

Yeah, you really nailed it with that 4-12, 1-5 in the division prediction last season, didn't you Nostradumbass?

[OpIv37]

Yeah, you really nailed it with that 4-12, 1-5 in the division prediction last season, didn't you Nostradumbass?
I was a mere 2 games off. First time in the history of this website that I've been more than one game off (and a couple times I guessed one more WIN than we actually had)

I never said I was always right. I said I'm right far more often than not.

[The Zone Ranger]

Can't we just agree not to disagree and end this thread.

[feldspar]

Can't we just agree not to disagree and end this thread.

We can't, because the people that have enough insight to predict the status quo may want to hold themselves morally superior to people that prefer to have some measure of hope...or something like that.

[The Zone Ranger]

We can't, because the people that have enough insight to predict the status quo may want to hold themselves morally superior to people that prefer to have some measure of hope...or something like that.

Oh I get it, this becomes a don't worry be happy thread. The thread that never ends.

[feldspar]

Oh I get it, this becomes a don't worry be happy thread. The thread that never ends.

As long as there are self-righteous humps, the thread will never end.

I predict that the end of self-righteous humps is not coming any time soon, but the thread will die down about the time they've told us how right they've been about 10 times too many. Also, it takes a giant leap of faith and going out on tremendous limb to predict that the Bills suck. Amazing...I bet the realists have a crystal ball or something. It's uncanny.

They have a tremendous amount of balls, guts, integrity and honest that the rest of us lack. They are to be admired and are people that we should aspire to emulate, and they will not rest until the rest of us realize this...realize THIS, and we too can be realists.

I think their most redeeming quality is that they think that their "opponents" on the board are just so damn stupid...and what can be more noble than talking down to somebody constantly to teach them the truth, especially to the tune of SEVENTY-TWO THOUSAND posts? That takes a certain amount of commitment...so there is that.

I don't take a stand either way, but I figure true fans don't have the attitude towards other die-hard fans that these humps do. There is nothing else to it.

[justasportsfan]

First, I'm not a pessimist .

Now you're not being realistic.

[better days]

First, I'm not a pessimist. Look at the results on the field. Things are as I say they are far more often than not.

Second, real fans don't get off no matter how bad things get. Only bandwagon jumpers get off. Yeah, it's supposed to be entertainment. It's supposed to be fun. But, sometimes the cookout gets rained out, sometimes your friend gets drunk and ruins a night out, sometimes a tv show has a lousy episode and sometimes (most of the time) our team loses. That's life- deal with it.

People like you and Thurm think that you are entitled to enjoy something because you label it "fun" or "entertainment" but you're not. Things aren't always what they want them to be. And it's completely illogical to claim to be a fan who wants this team to win but still enjoy this utter crap fest we've been served the last 14 years or so.

First, you are a pessimist. Second, Mike is wrong about you being an accurate predictor of individual players.

Remember last off season? You said the Bills were wrong to cut the "experienced" Donald Jones & David Nelson in favor of rookie WR's Robert Woods & Marquise Goodwin.

There is no question you were WRONG about that.

[OpIv37]

First, you are a pessimist. Second, Mike is wrong about you being an accurate predictor of individual players.

Remember last off season? You said the Bills were wrong to cut the "experienced" Donald Jones & Da,vid Nelson in favor of rookie WR's Robert Woods & Marquise Goodwin.

There is no question you were WRONG about that.

First, no one said I was right every single time.

Second, there is absolutely a question about that. The team clearly was hurt by a lack of experience at WR last year, especially with a rookie QB. And while Woods showed flashes of being a good one, Goodwin wasn't exactly impressive. and I never said that Jones and Nelson were better. I simply said it was stupid to put a rookie QB in with Johnson, Graham and a bunch of rookies, and it was.

[better days]

First, no one said I was right every single time.

Second, there is absolutely a question about that. The team clearly was hurt by a lack of experience at WR last year, especially with a rookie QB. And while Woods showed flashes of being a good one, Goodwin wasn't exactly impressive. and I never said that Jones and Nelson were better. I simply said it was stupid to put a rookie QB in with Johnson, Graham and a bunch of rookies, and it was.

You were WRONG about keeping Jones & Nelson.

Jones is out of football, did not play a down last year & Nelson was injured.

It was the absolutely correct thing to do to get rid of both of them.

And Woods had a very good Rookie year, while Goodwin showed flashes of the talent he has.

The team was hurt by lack of experience at WR last year because Stevie got injured, not because the Bills cut ties with Jones & Nelson.

As far as being a fan, I watch the Bills game by game. There will be good games & bad games, but for me even watching a bad game is more fun than anything else I can do.

[OpIv37]

You were WRONG about keeping Jones & Nelson.

Jones is out of football, did not play a down last year & Nelson was injured.

It was the absolutely correct thing to do to get rid of both of them.

And Woods had a very good Rookie year, while Goodwin showed flashes of the talent he has.

The team was hurt by lack of experience at WR last year because Stevie got injured, not because the Bills cut ties with Jones & Nelson.

As far as being a fan, I watch the Bills game by game. There will be good games & bad games, but for me even watching a bad game is more fun than anything else I can do.
I was absolutely not wrong.

You are hung up on this false dichotomy of Jones and Nelson or rookies being our only options. They weren't.

Going into a season with a rookie QB and Stevie as the only experienced WR was stupid and it showed on the field.

And we had $18 MILLION in leftover cap space, so keeping one of them or signing another vet would not have kept us from getting Woods or Goodwin.

[X-Era]

I was absolutely not wrong.

You are hung up on this false dichotomy of Jones and Nelson or rookies being our only options. They weren't.

Going into a season with a rookie QB and Stevie as the only experienced WR was stupid and it showed on the field.

And we had $18 MILLION in leftover cap space, so keeping one of them or signing another vet would not have kept us from getting Woods or Goodwin.This is why I'm pleased with what we've done if FA this off-season. Signing vets, even on the cheap, gives us depth potentially or even more. This is the way we should operate. I'm burn;t out with starting UDFA"s and rookies because we have no other option.

Good teams make players earn their jobs. And then they keep the runner up as quality depth.

[better days]

I was absolutely not wrong.

You are hung up on this false dichotomy of Jones and Nelson or rookies being our only options. They weren't.

Going into a season with a rookie QB and Stevie as the only experienced WR was stupid and it showed on the field.

And we had $18 MILLION in leftover cap space, so keeping one of them or signing another vet would not have kept us from getting Woods or Goodwin.

You can not name any vet the Bills could have signed that would have been better than Woods or Goodwin.

You were absolutely wrong when you said the Bills should not have cut Jones & Nelson.

Jones had a heart condition, so he was out period. Nelson was injured & played very little. He is not as good as Goodwin let alone Woods.

[OpIv37]

This is why I'm pleased with what we've done if FA this off-season. Signing vets, even on the cheap, gives us depth potentially or even more. This is the way we should operate. I'm burn;t out with starting UDFA"s and rookies because we have no other option.

Good teams make players earn their jobs. And then they keep the runner up as quality depth.

Getting Mike Williams and Brandon Spikes helps. The depth helps too.

I wish we had done something about the OL and TE, and I wish we had kept Byrd. Losing Pettine hurts- there wasn't anything the team could do about it so I can't really blame the FO on that one, but I still think it makes us worse on the field.

[OpIv37]

You can not name any vet the Bills could have signed that would have been better than Woods or Goodwin.

You were absolutely wrong when you said the Bills should not have cut Jones & Nelson.

Jones had a heart condition, so he was out period. Nelson was injured & played very little. He is not as good as Goodwin let alone Woods.

Whether I can name them or not is not the point. There are guys in the FO making six and seven figures a year whose job it is to find those guys.

Once again, I'm talking about experienced WR's and you are hung up on Jones and Nelson and trying to make it about me rather than holding the FO responsible for doing their job.

[X-Era]

Getting Mike Williams and Brandon Spikes helps. The depth helps too.

I wish we had done something about the OL and TE, and I wish we had kept Byrd. Losing Pettine hurts- there wasn't anything the team could do about it so I can't really blame the FO on that one, but I still think it makes us worse on the field.
Can't disagree on OL and TE. We will go into the draft needing and wanting both I imagine. I like what the draft may bring us at those spots but you never know.

[better days]

Whether I can name them or not is not the point. There are guys in the FO making six and seven figures a year whose job it is to find those guys.

Once again, I'm talking about experienced WR's and you are hung up on Jones and Nelson and trying to make it about me rather than holding the FO responsible for doing their job.

You can't name any vets that would have been better than Woods or Goodwin because there were not any available for the Bills to get.

They did get Chris Hogan, AKA 7-11, the best WR available, but he is not better than Woods or Goodwin.

And the point is, you did not want Jones & Nelson cut.

[OpIv37]

You can't name any vets that would have been better than Woods or Goodwin because there were not any available for the Bills to get.

They did get Chris Hogan, AKA 7-11, the best WR available, but he is not better than Woods or Goodwin.

And the point is, you did not want Jones & Nelson cut.

The point is that we needed experience at WR last year and we didn't have it.

[better days]

Getting Mike Williams and Brandon Spikes helps. The depth helps too.

I wish we had done something about the OL and TE, and I wish we had kept Byrd. Losing Pettine hurts- there wasn't anything the team could do about it so I can't really blame the FO on that one, but I still think it makes us worse on the field.

I really liked Pettine, but I think the Bills defense will be better with Schwartz & players like Spikes added.

I expect the defense to be BETTER than last year.

[better days]

The point is that we needed experience at WR last year and we didn't have it.

The point is unless the experienced player is GOOD, it does not matter how much experience he has.

A GOOD rookie like Woods is better than a mediocre vet with experience.

I like Nelson, but he was injured & Hogan is just as good as Nelson anyway.

And by playing Woods & Goodwin last year, they are now both experienced. And they are both GOOD.

The Bills were going nowhere last year anyway, especially with EJ getting injured.

[Mike]

BetterDays,
For someone that has been WRONG so often as you, it's a bit it ironic that the man in a glass house would throw the first stone.

You were wrong about
-Bills being a good team,
-about Marrone being a better option than Kelly or some of the other rookie head coaches
- about Bills beating NE in opener
- about Bills NOT being worst in division
- about Pats decline
- about Pats not being able to overcome lack of WR
- about Pats ability to win
- about Carrington being a top player
- about EJs performance being on par with Cam Newton, etc
- about Jets & Dols teams
- about Bills being better than Jets
- about a Bills being better than Dols
- about Dols FA additions not making a difference
- about Bills making playoffs
- about Bills finishing over .500
- about Bills being a good team

Just off the top if my head.
I could go on and on and on.

It's amazing a person can be so wrong so often and still hold their own so opinion highly.

You lack total self awareness.

[better days]

BetterDays,
For someone that has been WRONG so often as you, it's a bit it ironic that the man in a glass house would throw the first stone.

You were wrong about
-Bills being a good team,
-about Marrone being a better option than Kelly or some of the other rookie head coaches
- about Bills beating NE in opener
- about Bills NOT being worst in division
- about Pats decline
- about Pats not being able to overcome lack of WR
- about Pats ability to win
- about Carrington being a top player
- about EJs performance being on par with Cam Newton, etc
- about Jets & Dols teams
- about Bills being better than Jets
- about a Bills being better than Dols
- about Dols FA additions not making a difference
- about Bills making playoffs
- about Bills finishing over .500
- about Bills being a good team

Just off the top if my head.
I could go on and on and on.

It's amazing a person can be so wrong so often and still hold their own so opinion highly.

You lack total self awareness.

You can go on & on making stuff up but two thirds of what you say I said, I NEVER said.

- I said the Pats* would most likely win the division. THEY DID.

- I said the Pats* would lose when they played a good team in the playoffs: THEY DID

- I said Brady was on the downslope of his career: He is, last year was the worst of his career.

- I QUESTIONED the Marrone hire, was not a big fan of it at the time! I NEVER said Marrone was a better option than Kelly or anyone else.

- I said with some LUCK the Bills could make the playoffs, but I expected them to finish no worse than 6-10 & if they did Marrone should be FIRED.

It is AMAZING how you can be so WRONG about what I have posted!

- I did say I liked the Pettine hire by Marrone.

[Ginger Vitis]

BetterDays,
For someone that has been WRONG so often as you, it's a bit it ironic that the man in a glass house would throw the first stone.

You were wrong about
-Bills being a good team,
-about Marrone being a better option than Kelly or some of the other rookie head coaches
- about Bills beating NE in opener
- about Bills NOT being worst in division
- about Pats decline
- about Pats not being able to overcome lack of WR
- about Pats ability to win
- about Carrington being a top player
- about EJs performance being on par with Cam Newton, etc
- about Jets & Dols teams
- about Bills being better than Jets
- about a Bills being better than Dols
- about Dols FA additions not making a difference
- about Bills making playoffs
- about Bills finishing over .500
- about Bills being a good team

Just off the top if my head.
I could go on and on and on.

It's amazing a person can be so wrong so often and still hold their own so opinion highly.

You lack total self awareness.

Id say Better Days was right about the Miami Dolphins FA additions not making a difference.. The Dolfags only won I more game in 2013

[Mike]

You can go on & on making stuff up but two thirds of what you say I said, I NEVER said.

- I said the Pats* would most likely win the division. THEY DID.

- I said the Pats* would lose when they played a good team in the playoffs: THEY DID

- I said Brady was on the downslope of his career: He is, last year was the worst of his career.

- I QUESTIONED the Marrone hire, was not a big fan of it at the time! I NEVER said Marrone was a better option than Kelly or anyone else.

- I said with some LUCK the Bills could make the playoffs, but I expected them to finish no worse than 6-10 & if they did Marrone should be FIRED.

It is AMAZING how you can be so WRONG about what I have posted!

- I did say I liked the Pettine hire by Marrone.

All year long you went on and on about how the Bills are a GOOD team that need are ONE GOOD Coach & QB away from 10-6 type record and supported Marrone.

Your were saying the Pats were done and the division is ours to be had. That they could not WIN becuase of their WR. Yet they found a way to WIN and win in the playoffs. You made them sound like they were an average team and guaranteed that they would NOT be able to Overcome their WR situations which they DID.

You said if the Bills went 6-10 then Marron was not the guy but than changed your mind when the Bills went 6-10.

And Finally.... You constantly speak out of BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.
-> In one sentence you say Bills can go 10-6 but also you predict at least 6-10 ?><$%&%^
all I have to say is WTF...
.... So I asked you directly, Better Days, "what is your official Bills prediction, don't give me this range between 6-10 and 10-6 bs... and by the way good teams don't go 6-10... So betterdays, whats say you?"

of-course this was the only time you actually SHUTUP ...
you were speechless...


So Ill ask you again Better Days
Are the BILLS A GOOD TEAM?
HOW MANY GAMES WILL THIS GOOD TEAM WIN
IS EJ a good QB?
WILL he play better than any of this year's rookies or are any of them better?
If so who?
Will Bills win the Division?
Will Pats miss the playoffs?

PLease be spacifc Better days... we know you are all over the place & you can not do it.

[better days]

All year long you went on and on about how the Bills are a GOOD team that need are ONE GOOD Coach & QB away from 10-6 type record and supported Marrone.

Your were saying the Pats were done and the division is ours to be had. That they could not WIN becuase of their WR. Yet they found a way to WIN and win in the playoffs. You made them sound like they were an average team and guaranteed that they would NOT be able to Overcome their WR situations which they DID.

You said if the Bills went 6-10 then Marron was not the guy but than changed your mind when the Bills went 6-10.

And Finally.... You constantly speak out of BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH.
-> In one sentence you say Bills can go 10-6 but also you predict at least 6-10 ?><$%&%^
all I have to say is WTF...
.... So I asked you directly, Better Days, "what is your official Bills prediction, don't give me this range between 6-10 and 10-6 bs... and by the way good teams don't go 6-10... So betterdays, whats say you?"

of-course this was the only time you actually SHUTUP ...
you were speechless...


So Ill ask you again Better Days
Are the BILLS A GOOD TEAM?
HOW MANY GAMES WILL THIS GOOD TEAM WIN
IS EJ a good QB?
WILL he play better than any of this year's rookies or are any of them better?
If so who?
Will Bills win the Division?
Will Pats miss the playoffs?

PLease be spacifc Better days... we know you are all over the place & you can not do it.

TOTAL BS.

I said all along the Pats* would win the AFC East. FACT.

I don't remember saying the Bills were a Good HC & QB away from 10-6. I remember saying they could make the playoffs with luck, but I expected them to go 6-10 or Marrone should be fired. The Bills did go 6-10 so no reason to fire Marrone YET.

But I am not happy that Marrone did not fire Danny Crossman & if the Bills don't have a winning record, I will blame much of it on Crossman.

You MAKE CRAP UP about what I said. And yes over time my opinion may change depending on circumstances like injuries & trades.

Are the Bills a GOOD team? I think the defense is GOOD. I have my doubts about offense & special teams.

IF EJ can continue to develop & stay healthy & special teams is MUCH BETTER than last year, then I think the Bills could win 10 games & make the playoffs, but those are BIG IFs.

I expect the Pats* to again win the division, so yes they will make the playoffs again, but I don't expect them to get to the Super Bowl.

I will be very surprised if any QB drafted this year leads his team to the playoffs.

And while I liked the way EJ played in the Senior Bowl, I WANTED the Bills to draft Mike Glennon.

[BertSquirtgum]

Whether I can name them or not is not the point. There are guys in the FO making six and seven figures a year whose job it is to find those guys.

Once again, I'm talking about experienced WR's and you are hung up on Jones and Nelson and trying to make it about me rather than holding the FO responsible for doing their job.

You suck at being a Bills fan. You're good at being a Bills pessimist critic.

[BertSquirtgum]

BetterDays,
For someone that has been WRONG so often as you, it's a bit it ironic that the man in a glass house would throw the first stone.

You were wrong about
-Bills being a good team,
-about Marrone being a better option than Kelly or some of the other rookie head coaches
- about Bills beating NE in opener
- about Bills NOT being worst in division
- about Pats decline
- about Pats not being able to overcome lack of WR
- about Pats ability to win
- about Carrington being a top player
- about EJs performance being on par with Cam Newton, etc
- about Jets & Dols teams
- about Bills being better than Jets
- about a Bills being better than Dols
- about Dols FA additions not making a difference
- about Bills making playoffs
- about Bills finishing over .500
- about Bills being a good team

Just off the top if my head.
I could go on and on and on.

It's amazing a person can be so wrong so often and still hold their own so opinion highly.

You lack total self awareness.

Go back the Patriots board and jerk off the patriot way with the rest of the douche bags mass-holes.

[Jry44]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

This is just like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist. Regardless of scientific discovery, evolution, sexism, etc... Fundamentalist always believe when it's hardest to believe and pat themselves on the back for being True believers as a result.

But I disagree

It's easy to be a blind homer. It's cowardly, it's distructive, it's dishonest, it's a feminine trait.

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

This is the real fan, not some blind homer that's justifying his fanhood with make believe. Not that feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity and honesty to see things clearly instead being clouded by his own emotions.

Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Realist are the true Super fan that is there even when he knows the cup is 90% empty.

I guess you don't handle people not sharing your opinions very well....huh?

[swiper]

BetterDays,
For someone that has been WRONG so often as you, it's a bit it ironic that the man in a glass house would throw the first stone.

You were wrong about
-Bills being a good team,
-about Marrone being a better option than Kelly or some of the other rookie head coaches
- about Bills beating NE in opener
- about Bills NOT being worst in division
- about Pats decline
- about Pats not being able to overcome lack of WR
- about Pats ability to win
- about Carrington being a top player
- about EJs performance being on par with Cam Newton, etc
- about Jets & Dols teams
- about Bills being better than Jets
- about a Bills being better than Dols
- about Dols FA additions not making a difference
- about Bills making playoffs
- about Bills finishing over .500
- about Bills being a good team

Just off the top if my head.
I could go on and on and on.

It's amazing a person can be so wrong so often and still hold their own so opinion highly.

You lack total self awareness.


ROFL.

[mayotm]

ROFL.

Really? I guess you don't have a very good sense of humor.

[better days]

Mike goin' HAM on the Koolaid crew

Mike has been outed as the Pats* fan he is.

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

Homers have this backwards notion that by blindly only choosing to see things from the Bills point of view, giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt that they are superior fans.

The ideology goes something like this: If your a Believer when it's hardest time to believe (in other words team sucks) than that means your a super fan.
Believe in Bills + loosing team = Supeefan

This is just like being a brainwashed religious fundamentalist. Regardless of scientific discovery, evolution, sexism, etc... Fundamentalist always believe when it's hardest to believe and pat themselves on the back for being True believers as a result.

But I disagree

It's easy to be a blind homer. It's cowardly, it's distructive, it's dishonest, it's a feminine trait.

It takes balls and honesty to call a spade a spade and still support it. It takes guts to see that your team sucked and still be there on Sundays.

This is the real fan, not some blind homer that's justifying his fanhood with make believe. Not that feminine pussy boy that doesn't have the integrity and honesty to see things clearly instead being clouded by his own emotions.

Homers are no different than religious fundamentalists.

Realist are the true Super fan that is there even when he knows the cup is 90% empty.

So if I read you right, what I think your saying is, there is a difference between a "Fair weather Bills fan" and a "True Bills Fan", is that the case here! I have over a half century as a home town Bills fan and I route for them all the time, but know that I am also realistic about their chances each year. Hope for the best and see where they wind up! I get excited before each season and interested in what the front office does or doesn't do to better the team. Then I speak my mind about the pending results, good or bad! What does that make me? I live and die with the red, white and blue and hope for one SB before my days are up!

[feldspar]

So if I read you right, what I think your saying is, there is a difference between a "Fair weather Bills fan" and a "True Bills Fan", is that the case here!

No, that's not what he's saying at all.

He's saying that TRUE Bills fans have always realized that the Bills have done nothing but suck rotten dirty balls for over a decade. Believe it or not, that's the message. Anybody that has hope is a moron, basically...but they aren't being negative, but just realistic see.

Furthermore, anybody that has not lived by this basic creed and philosophy is not a true fan no matter what else. He tries to belittle those that think or feel differently.

Your mistake here is thinking that there is some rationality to what he is saying, and there is not...which doesn't exactly jibe with his calling himself a realist.

He calls other die-hard Bills fans all sorts of names...has nothing to do with being a fair-weather fan whatsoever.

[justasportsfan]

No, that's not what he's saying at all.

He's saying that TRUE Bills fans have always realized that the Bills have done nothing but suck rotten dirty balls for over a decade. Believe it or not, that's the message. Anybody that has hope is a moron, basically...but they aren't being negative, but just realistic see.

Furthermore, anybody that has not lived by this basic creed and philosophy is not a true fan no matter what else. He tries to belittle those that think or feel differently.

Your mistake here is thinking that there is some rationality to what he is saying, and there is not...which doesn't exactly jibe with his calling himself a realist.

He calls other die-hard Bills fans all sorts of names...has nothing to do with being a fair-weather fan whatsoever.

the fact that they call themselves realist and call the other side homers is funny to me. Truth is, one side seems to have fun no matter what and the other side are miserable. The miserable fans are pissmiserable that the other side aren't miserable like they are.

[The Popcorn]

Homers are just as true to their teams as people who are realistic. Just because some are financially strapped from attending a game doesn't mean they aren't "true fans."

[Mike]

No, that's not what he's saying at all.

He's saying that TRUE Bills fans have always realized that the Bills have done nothing but suck rotten dirty balls for over a decade. Believe it or not, that's the message. Anybody that has hope is a moron, basically...but they aren't being negative, but just realistic see.

Furthermore, anybody that has not lived by this basic creed and philosophy is not a true fan no matter what else. He tries to belittle those that think or feel differently.

Your mistake here is thinking that there is some rationality to what he is saying, and there is not...which doesn't exactly jibe with his calling himself a realist.

He calls other die-hard Bills fans all sorts of names...has nothing to do with being a fair-weather fan whatsoever.

Now I'm convince that your just angry little man.

What I'm saying is that some fans suffer from 'group think' which deludes their perception of the team.

People suffering from group think act hostile towards those that don't share their sentiments in perversely the same way you acted above.

Group think members are usually first to name call and dissent disagreement which is evident on this site. Now I'm sinking to the homer level...

[Mike]

First, you are a pessimist. Second, Mike is wrong about you being an accurate predictor of individual players.

Remember last off season? You said the Bills were wrong to cut the "experienced" Donald Jones & David Nelson in favor of rookie WR's Robert Woods & Marquise Goodwin.

There is no question you were WRONG about that.

When the Bills started 4-0, many homers was having 'I told you so' threads. Throwing it in other posters face. When the Bills crumbled, god forbid a realist had an a similar thread. Those I told you so threads were now classless, egoic, show off. God forbid you made a homer eat crow. I told you so threads are reserved for homers.

[feldspar]

Now I'm convince that your just angry little man.



No, I'm fine.

I just don't like you.

[Mike]

No, I'm fine.

I just don't like you.

Downplaying greatness.

You still can't answer the question.
When is the last time a Bills QB threw for at least 26TDs in a season?

[feldspar]

Downplaying greatness.

You still can't answer the question.
When is the last time a Bills QB threw for at least 26TDs in a season?

The question is irrelevant. The answer is I don't know, look it up yourself. I think even Jim Kelly had only one year where he threw for at least 26 TDs. I never made any claim about the Bills having a good QB lately. What is it that you are trying to prove here? That Peyton Manning is good? The Bills QBs have been less than desirable? Whatever it is, you sure got your finger on the pulse unlike any other.

[BertSquirtgum]

Now I'm convince that your just angry little man.

What I'm saying is that some fans suffer from 'group think' which deludes their perception of the team.

People suffering from group think act hostile towards those that don't share their sentiments in perversely the same way you acted above.

Group think members are usually first to name call and dissent disagreement which is evident on this site. Now I'm sinking to the homer level...

Go back to the Patrios board where you belong.

[Bill Cody]

Mike = troll

[better days]

When the Bills started 4-0, many homers was having 'I told you so' threads. Throwing it in other posters face. When the Bills crumbled, god forbid a realist had an a similar thread. Those I told you so threads were now classless, egoic, show off. God forbid you made a homer eat crow. I told you so threads are reserved for homers.

The Bills went 4-0 last year only in your World Mike.

BOTH pessimists & optimists have started I told you so threads.

But so far, pessimists have had the opportunity to start many more of them. Which they have done.

[Mike]

The Bills went 4-0 last year only in your World Mike.

BOTH pessimists & optimists have started I told you so threads.

But so far, pessimists have had the opportunity to start many more of them. Which they have done.

Shows how much you know. They started 4-0 with Firz as QB not last year silly boy.

[Mike]

The question is irrelevant. The answer is I don't know, look it up yourself. I think even Jim Kelly had only one year where he threw for at least 26 TDs. I never made any claim about the Bills having a good QB lately. What is it that you are trying to prove here? That Peyton Manning is good? The Bills QBs have been less than desirable? Whatever it is, you sure got your finger on the pulse unlike any other.

It is relavent? You think throwing touchdowns is it relavent?

Throwing a high number of touchdowns as a rookie signifies your ability to read defenses, manipulate them and creat opportunities.

It speaks to a player's on field awareness, understanding of offensive & defensive schemes, timing, and accuracy.

Rookie that excell at above end up becoming great NFL QBs regardless of mistakes. When you have that, then the mistakes can be dropped.

The Last Bills QB to do so was Jim Kelly in 1991. Yes it's been that long. So next time you downplay 26TDs for a rookie know how difficult it is.

Lastly, 26TDs isn't what it use to be, 10 QBs achomplish it last year. That's almost 1/3 of the league and the Bills haven't been able to do it since 1991.

[better days]

Shows how much you know. They started 4-0 with Firz as QB not last year silly boy.

Yes, I know the Bills were 4-0 one year with Fitz......................a LONG time ago.

[feldspar]

It is relavent? You think throwing touchdowns is it relavent?

Throwing a high number of touchdowns as a rookie signifies your ability to read defenses, manipulate them and creat opportunities.

It speaks to a player's on field awareness, understanding of offensive & defensive schemes, timing, and accuracy.

Rookie that excell at above end up becoming great NFL QBs regardless of mistakes. When you have that, then the mistakes can be dropped.

The Last Bills QB to do so was Jim Kelly in 1991. Yes it's been that long. So next time you downplay 26TDs for a rookie know how difficult it is.

Lastly, 26TDs isn't what it use to be, 10 QBs achomplish it last year. That's almost 1/3 of the league and the Bills haven't been able to do it since 1991.

Wow, your insight is overwhelming. You were just aching to whip out this golden nugget. So you are saying that this Peyton Manning character has put up some numbers, huh?

Stats without context are weak. Ryan Fitzpatrick threw 23 or 24 TDs for the Bills in three different years, but he had fewer attempts than Manning did his rookie year, when he threw 26. In fact, statistically speaking, Fitzpatrick would have thrown more TDs than (or as many as) Manning if he threw the ball 575 times a couple of different seasons, and his TD/INT ratio would have been better. May as well ask when the last time a Bills QB threw the ball 575 times, and also introduce many, many other variables if you want to gain an accurate picture. I understand Manning was a rookie...I never said anything about judging him. Who said anything about 26 TD passes being bad? Not me.

You gave me a stat, and gave you a few more. You can't "downplay" the number of interceptions thrown either, can you? Only TWO other quarterbacks threw 28 or more interceptions in the past 33 years in the ENTIRE NFL. That's not nothing. People were looking at Manning's high INT rate after his rookie season, as well as the fact that the team went 3-13...that's not worth mentioning? Points are often scored in garbage time. The future was not exactly a forgone conclusion with him at that point...if there is an actual purpose to this discussion, that is probably it. You could see him progress as it went on. Although, I personally had confidence in Peyton Manning moving forward, you don't just look at "26 TDs" and that's it.

[Albany,n.y.]

Stats without context are weak.
QB stats without context are always going to be weak. Here's an example:
QB A: Team recovers ball on opponent's 1 yard line, QB drops back & hits wide open TE for an easy TD pass.
QB B: Gets ball at his own 1. Drives all the way down the field with several clutch passes to get the ball to the opponent's 1 yard line. Then he hands the ball to his RB who dives in for a 1 yd TD.

QB A gets credit for a TD pass, QB B does not. I've always thought that the total # of drives a QB has that go for TDs are more relevant than TD passes because a team that has better goal line RBs than TEs is going to have fewer red zone TDs than a team that has better goal line TEs than RBs, even though the team with better RBs may have a better QB.

[feldspar]

QB stats without context are always going to be weak. Here's an example:
QB A: Team recovers ball on opponent's 1 yard line, QB drops back & hits wide open TE for an easy TD pass.
QB B: Gets ball at his own 1. Drives all the way down the field with several clutch passes to get the ball to the opponent's 1 yard line. Then he hands the ball to his RB who dives in for a 1 yd TD.

QB A gets credit for a TD pass, QB B does not. I've always thought that the total # of drives a QB has that go for TDs are more relevant than TD passes because a team that has better goal line RBs than TEs is going to have fewer red zone TDs than a team that has better goal line TEs than RBs, even though the team with better RBs may have a better QB.

True.

Or a QB could throw a 1-yard pass, and the receiver runs it in for an 80-yard touchdown. If course that's an 80-yard TD pass on the stat sheet. Lot's of other less tangible stat-variables too, such as the strength of the offensive line, which is huge for any kind of offensive production.

All that should just be common sense, right? No real insight there.

[BB4ever]

Homers are fans they just like to turn a blind eye to bad/mediocre plays thinking as long as they believe the bills will play better. It hasnt happend in 10+ yrs.

[BertSquirtgum]

After 14 years of suck anyone that still follows this team is a die hard. Pretty simple logic here. **** all the other labels. The idiots that want to label fellow fans can stick their labels up their asses.

[OpIv37]

After 14 years of suck anyone that still follows this team is a die hard. Pretty simple logic here. **** all the other labels. The idiots that want to label fellow fans can stick their labels up their asses.

Excellent post- probably your best ever.

There may be a deep division between fans on the future outlook for this team, but you're absolutely correct in saying that anyone who's still here deserves accolades.

Hell, I moved out of market in 2001 and never stopped following the team, despite the expense and inconvenience. In that span there were maybe 10 games I didn't watch- probably less than that, and of the games I did watch, I think there were only 2 times I turned it off early, no matter how bad it got.

Love or hate my opinions, that has to count for something.

[feldspar]

After 14 years of suck anyone that still follows this team is a die hard. Pretty simple logic here. **** all the other labels. The idiots that want to label fellow fans can stick their labels up their asses.

Pretty much. We all live through the same thing in the end.

[pmoon6]

Too bad the "realists" buy into the "Oooooh, we are going to suck" mentality every year before one pre-season snap is taken or when they don't like a draft pick.

All for the obvious purpose of being "correct" and pumping their chest.

A true realist would wait until the team actually fails before trumpeting it for their own self aggrandizement.

A second motivation is so they won't be disappointed should we fall on our face, thus protecting themselves mentally.

I think a lot of Bills' Fans have bought into the victim mentality so prevalent today in American Society. When things don't go their way, it's "poor us" and someone has to be blamed. Traditionally, WNY natives were known for their tough, never say die mentality. Unfortunately, that has given way to the popular, modern concept of victimhood. The Bills' Organization and a percentage of their fans are co-dependents in mediocrity/addiction.

Personally, given our competitiveness last year, I am optimistic. Of course, that is my nature anyway.

[stuckincincy]

Too bad the "realists" buy into the "Oooooh, we are going to suck" mentality every year before one pre-season snap is taken or when they don't like a draft pick.

All for the obvious purpose of being "correct" and pumping their chest.

A true realist would wait until the team actually fails before trumpeting it for their own self aggrandizement.

A second motivation is so they won't be disappointed should we fall on our face, thus protecting themselves mentally.

I think a lot of Bills' Fans have bought into the victim mentality so prevalent today in American Society. When things don't go their way, it's "poor us" and someone has to be blamed. Traditionally, WNY natives were known for their tough, never say die mentality. Unfortunately, that has given way to the popular, modern concept of victimhood. The Bills' Organization and a percentage of their fans are co-dependents in mediocrity/addiction.

Personally, given our competitiveness last year, I am optimistic. Of course, that is my nature anyway.

Of course...

[Bill Cody]

He's not telling you what to do. He's pointing out an inherent flaw in your mentality. Of course, it's easier to dismiss it as bull**** than to maybe reconsider your point of view.....

Why should he? Its only a flaw IN YOUR OPINION.