Jon Bon Jovi...More determined than Ever

[Ginger Vitis]

http://www.wkbw.com/sports/Rocker-Bon-Jovi-again-linked-to-Bills-254812731.html

http://buffalowdown.com/2014/04/10/bon-jovi-still-linked-buffalo-bills/

[Buffalogic]

Well Ralph has passed since his last attempt. I guess you could say that he's halfway there..whooaaa?

[Don't Panic]

Could you imagine if Bon Jovi and Trump became our primary owners? What bizzarro universe would we be in then?

[OpIv37]

First I have to look at him on the sidelines of all the ND games because his son plays for them.

Now, he's trying to buy the Bills...

Mr. Bon Jovi, please leave my football teams alone.

[Ginger Vitis]

First I have to look at him on the sidelines of all the ND games because his son plays for them.

Now, he's trying to buy the Bills...

Mr. Bon Jovi, please leave my football teams alone.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/jon-bon-jovis-son-injured-692464

[X-Era]

http://www.wkbw.com/sports/Rocker-Bon-Jovi-again-linked-to-Bills-254812731.html

http://buffalowdown.com/2014/04/10/bon-jovi-still-linked-buffalo-bills/
Wouldn't he rather have one of the teams from New Jersey?

[THRILLHO]

Buffalo sure is living on a prayer, aren't we?

[Skooby]

Lots of Land by the Falls.

[Ginger Vitis]

Wouldn't he rather have one of the teams from New Jersey?

I don't think the Maras or Woody Johnson plan on selling their teams anytime soon

[OpIv37]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/jon-bon-jovis-son-injured-692464

I heard- that gets me off the hook for this season but I believe it means be still has 3 seasons of eligibility.

[Crisis]

So I take it this means he'd be looking to move the Bills to Toronto then?

**** off Bon Jovi.

[Night Train]

Funny. It's just floating names.

With the folks on that Bills search board, it looks like an outside buyer who could move the team would be only an emergency last ditch option. Plus they have 6 years to get it done the way they want it ( keeping them in WNY )

I take any of these reports with a grain of salt. It's a long process and it's leaning towards local ownership.

[better days]

Funny. It's just floating names.

With the folks on that Bills search board, it looks like an outside buyer who could move the team would be only an emergency last ditch option. Plus they have 6 years to get it done the way they want it ( keeping them in WNY )

I take any of these reports with a grain of salt. It's a long process and it's leaning towards local ownership.

Yeah, I'm sure the Toronto group & others as well would love to buy the Bills & move them, but I am confident the Bills will be sold to someone that wants to keep the team in Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

bon jovi's nj hertiage is about hardworking people isn't it? that's the aura around him and his band? it'd seem pretty odd if he decided to move the team.

It worries me a little that we are hearing other names popping up now, but it really comes down to that stadium committee and breaking ground before the lease buyout is up.

if we do that, the bills are here for another 15-20 years after that.

if this becomes a classic peace bridge type project, we are screwed.

[WagonCircler]

bon jovi's nj hertiage is about hardworking people isn't it? that's the aura around him and his band? it'd seem pretty odd if he decided to move the team..

Don't be fooled. He is merely the "Face" for Maple Leafs Entertainment, the company that owns the Leafs. He is absolutely trying to move the team.

I truly wish ill on the bastard. Like a debilitating disease.

[trapezeus]

Don't be fooled. He is merely the "Face" for Maple Leafs Entertainment, the company that owns the Leafs. He is absolutely trying to move the team.

I truly wish ill on the bastard. Like a debilitating disease.

like a social disease?

[SpikedLemonade]

REPORT: BON JOVI FACE OF TORONTO GROUP LOOKING TO BUY BILLS


http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=449000 (http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=449000)

[OpIv37]

I don't know why anyone would want to put a team in Toronto after the debacle that is (hopefully was) the Bills in Toronto series.

I do believe that people in TO would support a permanent team better than they supported us as a once a year rent-a-team but it still seems risky.

And there's no way the NFL would approve it without a new stadium, so they wouldn't be avoiding that issue.

[WagonCircler]

like a social disease?

Gonorrhea would be acceptable, yes. Elephantitis of the testes. Flesh eating disease. Any of these would work.

Permanent laryngitis would be a win-win.

[swiper]

Wouldn't he rather have one of the teams from New Jersey?

No. What he would do is try and move the Bills to New Jersey.

Which would be closer to where I live now, but would still suck. The Bills forever belong in Buffalo.

[imbondz]

I'm deleting any Bon Jovi tunes on my iPod...except Living on a Prayer and You Give Love A Bad Name. And probably keep Bad Medicine too if I have it

[paladin warrior]

GOD :grovel: PlS Don't let him buy it .:cgal:....Go away Jon Bon Jovi-----> :rock:

[OpIv37]

No. What he would do is try and move the Bills to New Jersey.

Which would be closer to where I live now, but would still suck. The Bills forever belong in Buffalo.

Jersey already has two teams, plus the Eagles just over the river.

I don't think the state could support another one.

[helmetguy]

NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Beebe's Kid]

I'm deleting any Bon Jovi tunes on my iPod...except Living on a Prayer and You Give Love A Bad Name. And probably keep Bad Medicine too if I have it

I am kind of disappointed that you didn't work those into a clever post.

[more cowbell]

This homo and his lesbian haircut can go F himself

[BertSquirtgum]

Who cares about these idiots reports. No way these Canadian clowns buy the Bills.

[chris66]

Who cares about these idiots reports. No way these Canadian clowns buy the Bills.

Why not. Russ didnt do the fans any favors by stating the bills were a regional team that included southern Ontario. In fact a strong case could be made that Toronto is the same market thus avoiding any relocation fees.
Its no different than if the Pats wanted to move to Hartford or Providence.
Toronto is the the 4th largest population and 5th largest tv market on the continent. It wouldn't be hard to get 24 owners to agree. It instantly raises the value of all the teams and generates more tv revenue

[better days]

Why not. Russ didnt do the fans any favors by stating the bills were a regional team that included southern Ontario. In fact a strong case could be made that Toronto is the same market thus avoiding any relocation fees.
Its no different than if the Pats wanted to move to Hartford or Providence.
Toronto is the the 4th largest population and 5th largest tv market on the continent. It wouldn't be hard to get 24 owners to agree. It instantly raises the value of all the teams and generates more tv revenue

The reason the Canadians won't buy the Bills is because an owner that wants to keep the team in Buffalo will.

[stuckincincy]

The reason the Canadians won't buy the Bills is because an owner that wants to keep the team in Buffalo will.

IIRC ,years ago the authorities in Montreal went after a player in Expo stadium that conked a bird with a batted ball...Oh Canada!

[Ginger Vitis]

IIRC ,years ago the authorities in Montreal went after a player in Expo stadium that conked a bird with a batted ball...Oh Canada!

In Montreal? Maybe..I remember Dave Winfield in 1983 in Toronto killing a seagull when he threw a baseball at the seagull at the end of the 5th inning warmup.. After the game Winfield was taken to the police station and charged with "Unnecessary suffering to a animal"

[stuckincincy]

In Montreal? Maybe..I remember Dave Winfield in 1983 in Toronto killing a seagull when he threw a baseball at the seagull at the end of the 5th inning warmup.. After the game Winfield was taken to the police station and charged with "Unnecessary suffering to a animal"

Ah - thanks. That was it...

Just for fun - the CLE Indians'10-cent beer night:

http://mlb.si.com/2013/06/04/a-mistake-by-the-lake-remembering-the-10-cent-beer-night-riot/


:usflag:

[chris66]

The reason the Canadians won't buy the Bills is because an owner that wants to keep the team in Buffalo will.

I'm sure there is one, but you're kidding yourself if you dont think the owners see Toronto as a viable market and its ultimately the owners who decide what owner is going to join their little club.

[trapezeus]

Why not. Russ didnt do the fans any favors by stating the bills were a regional team that included southern Ontario. In fact a strong case could be made that Toronto is the same market thus avoiding any relocation fees.
Its no different than if the Pats wanted to move to Hartford or Providence.
Toronto is the the 4th largest population and 5th largest tv market on the continent. It wouldn't be hard to get 24 owners to agree. It instantly raises the value of all the teams and generates more tv revenue

Only problem with this is that it doesn't generate more tv revenue. It's an international market. There was something on this and the fact the nfl doesn't get additional revenue on Canadian games.

I agree that the regionalized team could make them easier to move up both but the cfl has clout in canada and they won't like splitting with an nfl team on a full time basis. Plus Toronto folks like coming for a cheaper game and the tailgate

[better days]

I'm sure there is one, but you're kidding yourself if you dont think the owners see Toronto as a viable market and its ultimately the owners who decide what owner is going to join their little club.

Well, first & foremost it is the owner of the team, Mary Wilson that decides who she wants to sell to, then 24 of 32 NFL owners have to approve the sale.

[WagonCircler]

I'm sure there is one, but you're kidding yourself if you dont think the owners see Toronto as a viable market and its ultimately the owners who decide what owner is going to join their little club.

Don't be so sure about that. The owners have a very real fear of being hit with an anti-trust violation. They have been living under the umbrella of baseball's anti-trust exemption for years, but they don't actually have one of their own.

Every time a franchise moves it pisses off a lot of people. I detest Chuck Schumer, but he's a very powerful man and he is rightly feared by people like Goodell.

Losing the only NFL team to play in NY State would not sit well with him or others who could make payback a real *****.

[imbondz]

Why not. Russ didnt do the fans any favors by stating the bills were a regional team that included southern Ontario. In fact a strong case could be made that Toronto is the same market thus avoiding any relocation fees.
Its no different than if the Pats wanted to move to Hartford or Providence.
Toronto is the the 4th largest population and 5th largest tv market on the continent. It wouldn't be hard to get 24 owners to agree. It instantly raises the value of all the teams and generates more tv revenue

The Pats moving a city over is the same as the Bills moving to another country? oooook. The same would be if Buffalo moved to Rochester, but were still called the Buffalo Bills. Most of us could stomach that. Toronto or anywhere else is out of the @$%@#%^ question.

[Fletch]

Funny. It's just floating names.

With the folks on that Bills search board, it looks like an outside buyer who could move the team would be only an emergency last ditch option. Plus they have 6 years to get it done the way they want it ( keeping them in WNY )

I take any of these reports with a grain of salt. It's a long process and it's leaning towards local ownership.

It's funny, because what I perceive as a "last ditch option" is trying to keep the team in a region that cannot possibly support it by modern day NFL standards which revolve entirely around corporate money, not individual fan ticket sales.

Even at individual fan ticket sales, we still can't sell out the stadium despite tremendously competitive ticket prices. Granted, winning would cure most if not all of that, but that's another story that creates a huge catch-22 for us.

Let's face it, Buffalo clearly does not have the corporate base to fund the luxury suites nor the fan base to fund PSLs. We're a blue collar town/team.

Frankly I prefer it that way and think that the modern day corporately funded base has ruined what used to be a good thing, but that doesn't matter, what matters is how things actually work. We have some of the best individual blue collar fans in the NFL, if not the best, but what's missing Buffalo simply does not have in a state that's so broke that it makes a recent bankruptcy declarer look loaded.

[Bill Cody]

Well, first & foremost it is the owner of the team, Mary Wilson that decides who she wants to sell to, then 24 of 32 NFL owners have to approve the sale.

There will probably be sealed bids. There is a strong possibility the new owner will be the highest bidder, if not the IRS can say the team was not sold for fair market value.

[better days]

There will probably be sealed bids. There is a strong possibility the new owner will be the highest bidder, if not the IRS can say the team was not sold for fair market value.

What does fair market value have to do with anything?

You can sell your property for whatever you want, to whoever you want.

And Bids are not sealed to the person that is doing the selling, that is just STUPID.

[chris66]

He meant that the only one who will know what the bids are is the seller. The ones doing the bidding won't know what the other bids are. Hence being sealed

[Bill Cody]

What does fair market value have to do with anything?

You can sell your property for whatever you want, to whoever you want.

And Bids are not sealed to the person that is doing the selling, that is just STUPID.

It has to do with estate and gift taxes. Mary Wilson could decide to sell the team for 100m but the IRS is not going to accept that. They would consider that a below market value sale and the 700m below to be a gift subject to gift taxes to Mary. The point of the sealed bids is to show that this is an arms length for market value sales process. Careful what you're calling stupid.

[Bill Cody]

Well Ralph has passed since his last attempt. I guess you could say that he's halfway there..whooaaa?

Well he did say he'd buy it from him Dead or Alive

[better days]

He meant that the only one who will know what the bids are is the seller. The ones doing the bidding won't know what the other bids are. Hence being sealed

If I was the seller, I would want everyone to know what the bids are.

But that is neither here nor there.

It is up to Mary Wilson to decide if she wants to sell the team for less money to someone that will keep the Bills in Buffalo or to someone that will move the team.

She also has the right to tell local bidders, this is what I have been offered by the Toronto group, can you match it?

Terms of the sale are also important. I could offer $2 Billion for the Bills & will make payments of $100.00/year until paid off.

[better days]

It has to do with estate and gift taxes. Mary Wilson could decide to sell the team for 100m but the IRS is not going to accept that. They would consider that a below market value sale and the 700m below to be a gift subject to gift taxes to Mary. The point of the sealed bids is to show that this is an arms length for market value sales process. Careful what you're calling stupid.

Do you work for the IRS?

[Bill Cody]

Do you work for the IRS?

no why?

[better days]

no why?

So, unless you are a tax lawyer, you have no idea what the IRS would really do or say about the sale of the Bills.

That is all.

If Mary sells the Bills to a person that is not related to her, I believe she is responsible for the money she makes on the sale period.

[Bill Cody]

So, unless you are a tax lawyer, you have no idea what the IRS would really do or say about the sale of the Bills.

That is all.

If Mary sells the Bills to a person that is not related to her, I believe she is responsible for the money she makes on the sale period.

I stand by what I said. I don't need to be a tax lawyer to be right. And you don't have to be a tax lawyer to be wrong. That is all.

[better days]

I stand by what I said. I don't need to be a tax lawyer to be right. And you don't have to be a tax lawyer to be wrong. That is all.

Well, except you are not right.

[Bill Cody]

Well, except you are not right.

sorry you're not qualified to say that

[better days]

sorry you're not qualified to say that

Just as qualified as you were to post your OPINION.

If there were any truth to that, it would have been on profootballtalk, ESPN ETC long ago.

Unless Mary sells to a family member at a low price to try to cheat the tax man, the government won't get involved.

If your spouse died & left a new BMW to you, & you wanted to get rid of it because of memories, you could sell it to me for $50.00 & the government would have no say about it.

[GingerP]

If your spouse died & left a new BMW to you, & you wanted to get rid of it because of memories, you could sell it to me for $50.00 & the government would have no say about it.

But you would pay sales (if any applies) and excise tax on the full value of the car. They don't care what you bought the car for, they tax you on the value. The Bills would likely be treated the same way.

[chris66]

Exactly. The family is going to be taxed on 860 million if the sale is less than that
Now the owners will not approve any sale that brings down the value of the club.

[stuckincincy]

Exactly. The family is going to be taxed on 860 million if the sale is less than that
Now the owners will not approve any sale that brings down the value of the club.

B'gals owner Brown beat the Grim Reaper...Brown vs. the irs:


http://bengals.enquirer.com/043097_bengbrown.html

[better days]

But you would pay sales (if any applies) and excise tax on the full value of the car. They don't care what you bought the car for, they tax you on the value. The Bills would likely be treated the same way.

I have paid less than list price on cars & only paid tax on what I paid.

[chris66]

I have paid less than list price on cars & only paid tax on what I paid.
If the car was part of an estate the seller would be responsible for the tax difference.
You also can't compare a car to an organization worth three quarters of a billion dollars.

[chris66]

B'gals owner Brown beat the Grim Reaper...Brown vs. the irs:


http://bengals.enquirer.com/043097_bengbrown.html
Big difference isBrown was an heir.
Would be completly different selling to an outsider

[better days]

If the car was part of an estate the seller would be responsible for the tax difference.
You also can't compare a car to an organization worth three quarters of a billion dollars.

Show us some proof of that.

When I was 17 I bought a car of a kid that just died in Vietnam from his parents & paid far below value.

I DOUBT his parents paid any more on taxes than I paid for the car.

[better days]

Big difference isBrown was an heir.
Would be completly different selling to an outsider

Yes, it would be different, the IRS gets more involved when a family member is involved.

[chris66]

Show us some proof of that.

When I was 17 I bought a car of a kid that just died in Vietnam from his parents & paid far below value.

I DOUBT his parents paid any more on taxes than I paid for the car.
Probably its because the entire estate wast valued at least a million dollars.

[better days]

Probably its because the entire estate wast valued at least a million dollars.

The more money you have, the BETTER the tax lawyers you can afford to hire.

And I heard on Shopp & Bulldog on WGR that Thurman Thomas was approached by TWO groups that want to buy the Bills to be their face to deal with Mary Wilson because it was reported she will NOT necessarily sell to the highest bidder.

That TOTALLY supports my position.

[chris66]

The more money you have, the BETTER the tax lawyers you can afford to hire.

And I heard on Shopp & Bulldog on WGR that Thurman Thomas was approached by TWO groups that want to buy the Bills to be their face to deal with Mary Wilson because it was reported she will NOT necessarily sell to the highest bidder.

That TOTALLY supports my position.don't confuse highest bid with market value. The other owners will not approve a sale that's below market.

[better days]

don't confuse highest bid with market value. The other owners will not approve a sale that's below market.

Why would they not? You think they are afraid it will weaken the market for NFL teams?

Ridiculous. First the Government won't approve, now the NFL owners won't.

GRASPING at straws. And nobody said the team will be sold for below market value either.

[chris66]

Why would they not? You think they are afraid it will weaken the market for NFL teams?

Ridiculous. First the Government won't approve, now the NFL owners won't.

GRASPING at straws. And nobody said the team will be sold for below market value either.that's exactly why they won't let the sale go below market. NFL is all about money
Why do think they keep talking about international teams. They are close to tapping out the market here in the states

[better days]

that's exactly why they won't let the sale go below market. NFL is all about money
Why do think they keep talking about international teams. They are close to tapping out the market here in the states

I never said that the Bills would be sold for below market value. They have 5 or 6 banks establishing that value now.

I am saying the Bills will be sold to someone that wants to keep the Bills in Buffalo & it may not be for the most money offered.

[stuckincincy]

I never said that the Bills would be sold for below market value. They have 5 or 6 banks establishing that value now.

I am saying the Bills will be sold to someone that wants to keep the Bills in Buffalo & it may not be for the most money offered.

How do you know 5 or 6 banks are establishing their value now?

[chris66]

I never said that the Bills would be sold for below market value. They have 5 or 6 banks establishing that value now.

I am saying the Bills will be sold to someone that wants to keep the Bills in Buffalo & it may not be for the most money offered.Hopefully.
The new owner's will have 6 years to see if the area can support them. It will all come down to the fans and corp. If they sell luxury boxes, tickets that avg100.00 and psls there shouldn't be an issue keeping the team long term

[Bill Cody]

I never said that the Bills would be sold for below market value.

You said it didn't matter as long as it wasn't a family member, which is WRONG. Did you change your mind? They will value the Bills as a part of Ralph's estate as of the date of death. The IRS will have to approve that valuation when Ralph's executor files the estate tax return. As long as Mary sells for at least that much she should be ok with the Feds, otherwise there will be gift tax consequences.

I live in RI and at least in this state your statement about paying sales tax on whatever you may have paid is also wrong. You can have a bill of sale that says you bought the car for $50 but they will still tax you on the book value.

[better days]

How do you know 5 or 6 banks are establishing their value now?

It was reported on WGR radio.

[stuckincincy]

You said it didn't matter as long as it wasn't a family member, which is WRONG. Did you change your mind? They will value the Bills as a part of Ralph's estate as of the date of death. The IRS will have to approve that valuation when Ralph's executor files the estate tax return. As long as Mary sells for at least that much she should be ok with the Feds, otherwise there will be gift tax consequences.

I live in RI and at least in this state your statement about paying sales tax on whatever you may have paid is also wrong. You can have a bill of sale that says you bought the car for $50 but they will still tax you on the book value.

That car tax situation in RI is different from the 3 states I've lived in extensively. I'm used to a "reasonable standard", if you will. This mythical, 3-year old BMW might have 150K on it, aged and split leather seats, paint chips and dings, dented rims, bad compression, etc. - no way it got sold for so-called bluebook numbers.

In OH, as well as NY and PA in the past, as long as the sales price is in the ballpark, the low sales receipt goes. It's been years since I lived in NY or PA, so I don't know, but in OH if pressed you can produce photos and mechanics' reports to justify the sales cost.

Most transactions proceed as presented - and OH's hands are far from clean. They extract registration fees based on date of birth. If you are born in January and purchase a car in December, you pay the full fee for that year, then you have to pay it again come January.

[better days]

You said it didn't matter as long as it wasn't a family member, which is WRONG. Did you change your mind? They will value the Bills as a part of Ralph's estate as of the date of death. The IRS will have to approve that valuation when Ralph's executor files the estate tax return. As long as Mary sells for at least that much she should be ok with the Feds, otherwise there will be gift tax consequences.

I live in RI and at least in this state your statement about paying sales tax on whatever you may have paid is also wrong. You can have a bill of sale that says you bought the car for $50 but they will still tax you on the book value.

New York State only taxed you on money paid for a car when I lived there. They might question you about it, but if you had a bill of sale, that was what you paid the tax on.

I never meant to imply that the Bills would be sold for less than market value, on the other hand someone can offer over market value & Mary Wilson does not have to accept that offer if she is not happy will all conditions of the sale such as how & when the money is to be paid & if the team would be moved.

[Bill Cody]

That car tax situation in RI is different from the 3 states I've lived in extensively. I'm used to a "reasonable standard", if you will. This mythical, 3-year old BMW might have 150K on it, aged and split leather seats, paint chips and dings, dented rims, bad compression, etc. - no way it got sold for so-called bluebook numbers.

In OH, as well as NY and PA in the past, as long as the sales price is in the ballpark, the low sales receipt goes. It's been years since I lived in NY or PA, so I don't know, but in OH if pressed you can produce photos and mechanics' reports to justify the sales cost.

Most transactions proceed as presented - and OH's hands are far from clean. They extract registration fees based on date of birth. If you are born in January and purchase a car in December, you pay the full fee for that year, then you have to pay it again come January.

Even using the "reasonable standard" approach in the states you mention Better Days example of the $50 Beemer wouldn't pass the smell test. You can't just make the value up from whole cloth. RI changed to straight book value because so many of the bill of sales were bogus. You're right registry's find a way to screw you on fees.

[Bill Cody]

New York State only taxed you on money paid for a car when I lived there. They might question you about it, but if you had a bill of sale, that was what you paid the tax on.

I never meant to imply that the Bills would be sold for less than market value, on the other hand someone can offer over market value & Mary Wilson does not have to accept that offer if she is not happy will all conditions of the sale such as how & when the money is to be paid & if the team would be moved.

I believe the executor has to establish a fair market value for the team as of the date of Ralph's death as a part of the requirement to file an estate tax return and that number has to be approved by the IRS. My "non estate tax attorney" take is if Mary sells for less than that she'll have gift tax consequences. So I expect she will sell for at least that. I never said she had to sell to the highest bidder.

[stuckincincy]

I believe the executor has to establish a fair market value for the team as of the date of Ralph's death as a part of the requirement to file an estate tax return and that number has to be approved by the IRS. My "non estate tax attorney" take is if Mary sells for less than that she'll have gift tax consequences. So I expect she will sell for at least that. I never said she had to sell to the highest bidder.

Heh - I'm thinking about the "flat tax" dreamers. It can never happen - the rates would be so naked, so stark, that voters would revolt over increases, and the pols couldn't favor this one and punish that one. Nobody would bother to send a Congressman a Christmas card, let alone lobby them.

The best thing would be to have the tax payment deadline a month before elections. What a different nation we would be. Which is why the pols set it up as it is.

[better days]

I believe the executor has to establish a fair market value for the team as of the date of Ralph's death as a part of the requirement to file an estate tax return and that number has to be approved by the IRS. My "non estate tax attorney" take is if Mary sells for less than that she'll have gift tax consequences. So I expect she will sell for at least that. I never said she had to sell to the highest bidder.

The only point I wanted to make is I believe the Bills will be sold to a person/persons that WANT to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

There are enough people with deep pockets that want to keep the Bills in Buffalo that paying market value will be no problem.

The next owner of the Bills will be someone that as Bob Rich said consider the Bills a cultural asset to WNY & want to keep them in WNY for that reason, not to make money.

And I read that if Trump invested as little as 20% of the Bills, he could use them as a tax write off & save a bundle in taxes. I expect whoever buys the Bills to do that, use them as a tax write off.

[BertSquirtgum]

I hope jonbovi crashes his car over a bridge.

[BertSquirtgum]

I hate bon jovi so much. I wouldn't care if he hit a patch of ice and drove over a high bridge. Why does this douche bag think he's Canadian now? I hope the Donald punches him in the throat.

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jon-bon-jovi-buffalo-bills-2014-4

[chris66]

Even using the "reasonable standard" approach in the states you mention Better Days example of the $50 Beemer wouldn't pass the smell test. You can't just make the value up from whole cloth. RI changed to straight book value because so many of the bill of sales were bogus. You're right registry's find a way to screw you on fees.
yeah they do especially here in RI. Way too many backdoor fees

[Historian]

Lots of Land by the Falls.

Lots of buried chemicals as well!

[stuckincincy]

Lots of buried chemicals as well!

Love Canal Stadium..is that too risque?

[BertSquirtgum]

Lots of buried chemicals as well!

There truly is. We dug up barrels when working on a water line right by Niagara University.

[BertSquirtgum]

roosevelt ave

[better days]

There truly is. We dug up barrels when working on a water line right by Niagara University.

The people responsible for that should have spent the rest of their lives in prison.

[stuckincincy]

The people responsible for that should have spent the rest of their lives in prison.

And how about the thousands of workers in those industries who took the money the businesses provided to them, raised their kids on it, bought products, stoked the economy, knowing how their personal bread was buttered? Lock all those folks up, too? Those folks werne't stupid. They knew and participated - willingly, for the coin.

[better days]

And how about the thousands of workers in those industries who took the money the businesses provided to them, raised their kids on it, bought products, stoked the economy, knowing how their personal bread was buttered? Lock all those folks up, too? Those folks werne't stupid. They knew and participated - willingly, for the coin.

Even if true which I doubt, those people did not make the decisions.

Crap flows down hill. Yes lower level employees that knew, should also have received jail time as well, the people that made the decisions to do that should have been locked up for life.

[Woodman]

just say no to Bon Jovi.

[Fletch]

What does fair market value have to do with anything?

You can sell your property for whatever you want, to whoever you want.

And Bids are not sealed to the person that is doing the selling, that is just STUPID.

Not true in this case. The NFL's other 31 owners must approve the sale and if you don't think that the viability of a region, particularly contrasted with a much more viable potential region, is a factor, guess again. That approval doesn't have to have anything at all to do with the price.

Right now my money goes on a Toronto/Ontario/Canadian interest buying the team, moving it to "just over the border," Hamilton or whatever, naming it after Ontario, Toronto, Hamilton, St. Catherines, or even quite possibly Niagara Falls, moving it away from lake effect snow by crossing to the westward side, and hoping that enough interest in WNY still exists to retain a good portion of the fan base.

Toronto is one of the world's largest financial centers, clearly has the corporate as well as personal (PSL) money amongst its fanbase, and again, it would check the "international" box on the NFL's list of goals and instantly create a whole new TV market, much bigger than any in any single city in the U.S. would due to the notion that it would be Canada's only NFL team.

I also expect that no-move clause to be bought out for something significantly less after some legal strong-arming by the new or potential new owners, and for the county to "take something rather than nothing after a few years" while pitching it to us as "the best thing." They'll probably cry over the demolition costs for Rich etc.

If there's one thing we know about contracts, of all sorts, as they relate to the NFL, they're hardly if ever in stone and the NFL and its interests/owners, etc., have ways of getting their way.

[better days]

Not true in this case. The NFL's other 31 owners must approve the sale and if you don't think that the viability of a region, particularly contrasted with a much more viable potential region, is a factor, guess again. That approval doesn't have to have anything at all to do with the price.

Right now my money goes on a Toronto/Ontario/Canadian interest buying the team, moving it to "just over the border," Hamilton or whatever, naming it after Ontario, Toronto, Hamilton, or even quite possibly Niagara Falls, moving it away from lake effect snow by crossing to the westward side, and hoping that enough interest in WNY still exists to retain a good portion of the fan base.

Toronto is one of the world's largest financial centers, clearly has the corporate as well as personal (PSL) money amongst its fanbase, and again, it would check the "international" box on the NFL's list of goals and instantly create a whole new TV market, much bigger than any in any single city in the U.S. would due to the notion that it would be Canada's only NFL team.

I also expect that no-move clause to be bought out for something significantly less after some legal strong-arming by the new or potential new owners, and for the county to "take something rather than nothing after a few years" while pitching it to us as "the best thing." They'll probably cry over the demolition costs for Rich etc.

If there's one thing we know about contracts, of all sorts, as they relate to the NFL, they're hardly if ever in stone and the NFL and its interests/owners, etc., have ways of getting their way.

OK, we will see who is right about this. People like you that think the Bills are moving is a foregone conclusion, or people like me that think there is no way the Bills move.

We won't have to wait too much longer to see what happens.

I look forward to the day I no longer have to read speculation about the Bills moving. And that day will be here soon.

[GingerP]

I look forward to the day I no longer have to read speculation about the Bills moving. And that day will be here soon.

The thing that will keep the Bills here long-term is a new stadium. Without a new stadium, the team will be moved when the lease allows it, and you will keep hearing the rumors. They key will be finding a local owner who can work with the correct government entities to secure an agreement on a new stadium.

[better days]

The thing that will keep the Bills here long-term is a new stadium. Without a new stadium, the team will be moved when the lease allows it, and you will keep hearing the rumors. They key will be finding a local owner who can work with the correct government entities to secure an agreement on a new stadium.

When the new owner is named & it is known he has ties to Buffalo, which he will, all talk about the Bills moving can & should end.

A new stadium is a forgone conclusion. It is just a question of where it goes & if it will have a roof or not.

[Fletch]

The only point I wanted to make is I believe the Bills will be sold to a person/persons that WANT to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

There are enough people with deep pockets that want to keep the Bills in Buffalo that paying market value will be no problem.

The next owner of the Bills will be someone that as Bob Rich said consider the Bills a cultural asset to WNY & want to keep them in WNY for that reason, not to make money.

And I read that if Trump invested as little as 20% of the Bills, he could use them as a tax write off & save a bundle in taxes. I expect whoever buys the Bills to do that, use them as a tax write off.

Here's the problem with that theory, that the NFL is hardly a closed business system. It relies on municipalities, whether it's cities, counties, or states, to pitch in, usually and almost always for financing an expensive modern stadium, among other lesser things.

Few businesses have that luxury, of being able to rob from taxpayers to help an owner of a biz make money. But the bottom line is that our municipalities simply don't have the money anymore, particularly the city a/o county. So it all falls back onto the state and they don't have the money either to finance a $500M stadium or whatever it would cost, and that's a low cost these days with most pushing a billion.

The financing on that would be well over the cost of the stadium much like the interest on the average mortgage is more than the cost of the home over time. That money simply isn't there in/for Buffalo or WNY.

I don't think that any new owner(s) is going to consider anything less than state-of-the-art for his/her new team and there will be places offering it among which Buffalo cannot compete with and among which Toronto must be at the forefront. I don't see the NFL defending such a decision either, namely to forego that kind of stadium merely for purposes of nostalgia, which is all that it would be at that point.

IMO all the talk of keeping the team here is simply to keep the fans' interest while the team remains in Buffalo, at least to the extent possible.

[Fletch]

When the new owner is named & it is known he has ties to Buffalo, which he will, all talk about the Bills moving can & should end.

A new stadium is a forgone conclusion. It is just a question of where it goes & if it will have a roof or not.

You keep talking as if the team remaining in the region is a forgone conclusion too. If Buffalo currently did not have a team and threw its hat into the ring for a new team, it wouldn't have a chance. Given that it needs a new stadium, despite the "upgrades" to the current one, it may as well be competing as if it did not have a team because WNY, or NYS in general, cannot afford it. The taxpayers are already screwed to the max.

I just don't see it happening and any amount of BILL-ieving isn't going to change anything. Money talks, BS walks, and unfortunately we're full of the latter no matter how much we all want the team to stay here. This team, as unfortunate as it may be for us, has Toronto written all over it. It's no secret whatsoever that the NFL wants to market itself internationally, and anyone thinking that that's going to be England before it's Canada is being naive.

Canada's the very first "international" stop, and the attractiveness of a huge global financial center like Toronto, or at least Ontario, is far too great to pass up for the NFL. Toronto is Canada's financial center and wealthiest city and among the world's biggest financial cities as well, so it's the first in Canada. Mexico will never have an NFL team. It'll mean money, and as that adage goes, money talks. Toronto, Ontario has the money on WNY hands down, so much so that there's no contest.

If the team stays in Buffalo, I'll try to do a real backflip, and for my age that'll be something. lol

I'm with everyone on hoping that the team stays, but as I've said many times, if Wilson really wanted to keep the team in Buffalo, given that no one in his family wants to have anything to do with it now, he'd have sold it, even for less than its "worth," to an owner or ownership group that had designs on keeping it here. Every penny he makes on it is pure profit so "his family" will become wealthy regardless of the sales price even if it's sold for a small fraction of its value, even after estate tax.

Then the legacy could have continued, but the odds for it continuing now, minus a few years during which uncertainty will be the operative term, are slim to nil. IMO Wilson's not having sold it while he could have then was purely for self-centered reasons, having absolutely nothing to do with keeping the team in Buffalo.

[better days]

Here's the problem with that theory, that the NFL is hardly a closed business system. It relies on municipalities, whether it's cities, counties, or states, to pitch in, usually and almost always for financing an expensive modern stadium, among other lesser things.

Few businesses have that luxury, of being able to rob from taxpayers to help an owner of a biz make money. But the bottom line is that our municipalities simply don't have the money anymore, particularly the city a/o county. So it all falls back onto the state and they don't have the money either to finance a $500M stadium or whatever it would cost, and that's a low cost these days with most pushing a billion.

The financing on that would be well over the cost of the stadium much like the interest on the average mortgage is more than the cost of the home over time. That money simply isn't there in/for Buffalo or WNY.

I don't think that any new owner(s) is going to consider anything less than state-of-the-art for his/her new team and there will be places offering it among which Buffalo cannot compete with and among which Toronto must be at the forefront. I don't see the NFL defending such a decision either, namely to forego that kind of stadium merely for purposes of nostalgia, which is all that it would be at that point.

IMO all the talk of keeping the team here is simply to keep the fans' interest while the team remains in Buffalo, at least to the extent possible.

Keeping the Bills in Buffalo is not about nostalgia at all. It is about keeping the Bills fan base interested in the NFL.

Even though Buffalo lost a lot of its population in the last 30 years, the people that left Buffalo did not stop being Bills fans.

There are MANY Bills fans that spend a lot of money buying the Sunday ticket & going to sports bars that pay for the Sunday ticket, the NFL profits from Bills fans all over the Country.

As I said it won't be long & I will no longer have to read the STUPID talk of the Bills moving.

[Fletch]

Keeping the Bills in Buffalo is not about nostalgia at all. It is about keeping the Bills fan base interested in the NFL.

Even though Buffalo lost a lot of its population in the last 30 years, the people that left Buffalo did not stop being Bills fans.

There are MANY Bills fans that spend a lot of money buying the Sunday ticket & going to sports bars that pay for the Sunday ticket, the NFL profits from Bills fans all over the Country.

As I said it won't be long & I will no longer have to read the STUPID talk of the Bills moving.

Where we agree is that it won't be long. You're way off on the rest.

For starters, I cannot tell you how many Bills fans, fans that I attended the '90s era SB team games with for instance, that have simply given up for the most part due to the negligence in the administration of the team rendering something simple into some experts-only mental effort while simultaneously reducing the effectiveness of this team to proverbial rubble.

Only politicians or some government agency could do worse.

Otherwise, you talk as if Buffalo has a bigger fanbase than say Toronto and Ontario, really reaching all of Canada as the NFL's first both international as well as Canadian team would, which is a huge mistake.

The other even more notable mistake that you make in your calculations is that the NFL doesn't give a crap about the "average fan" or "joe blue-collar fan" anymore. It's entirely about the Benjamins and the corporate support for teams. Just take a good hard look around the league, what do you see?

You see almost every stadium named after a huge corporate sponsor, the likes of which simply don't exist in WNY or Buffalo.

Gillette Stadium, Fed Ex Field, Met Life Stadium, AT&T Stadium, Sports Authority Field, Sun Life Stadium, Bank of America Stadium, Mercedes-Benz stadium, First Energy Stadium, NRG Stadium, M&T Bank Stadium, Qualcom Stadium, Lincoln Financial Field, Levi's Stadium, EverBank Field, Century Link Field, Edward Jones Dome, Raymond James Stadium, Heinz Field, Ford Field, University of Phoenix Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, TCF Bank Stadium.

The days of "Rockpile" like public stadiums are over. When one corporation bows out, there's another to buy the naming rights. They're almost all financed by public tax dollars, unfortunately.

I appreciate your zeal, and the emotional part of me encourages it, but the reality of it makes no sense. I'm also not necessarily trying to discourage your thinking and others that think like it, just trying to warn you to not be too disappointed when what you're hoping for doesn't come to pass.

The biggest thing about this is, or will be, what the other 31 owners want. Wilson's best friends passed away before he did. The old school owners like Davis and Adams are all but gone. Money and nothing else drives this NFL train.

They're all saying publicly what the public wants to hear, particularly those most sensitive to the issue, namely Bills fans like us, but the reality is that Wilson's ownership opinions were not popular with modern era owners when he was here, for years even. So why would they be popular now.

The NFL benefits as a unit, more so than any other sport. If they can boost their revenues and profits by even a significant amount, that's what they'll vote for, and unfortunately that's not going to involve keeping the team in Buffalo. For now they're "playing the game" as it were, saying what everyone wants to hear, but once the rumors and talk soften things up, watch how fast the county politicians start talking about a buyout because if they don't get one, the team will leave and they'll get nothing, ... "for the county" of course.

Either way, I don't see anything even remotely approaching 24 of the 31 other owners supporting the team remaining in Buffalo over an option like expansion to Canada, hence internationally, and into an enormous financially based market that is sure to build a state-of-the-art stadium and usher the NFL into its international era.

It may not be Portland, or L.A., or another US city, but the owners are going to do what puts money into their pocket(s), not what's nostalgically or emotionally popular by a fanbase that's scattered as it is, much less what's in it for a small smoldering financial region that really cannot support a team in the modern financial era of the NFL.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is. We agree on what we'd like to see happen, the cards are just so stacked against it that it never will. I'd say that the best that we can hope for, and IMO this is the odds-on likelihood, is for a Toronto/Ontarian interest to buy the team and relocate it just on the other side of the border, say NF or St. Catherines, hoping that the US portion of the fanbase, aka Buffalonians and other WNY-ers, will continue their interest, particularly that it'll be the same TV market for all intents and purposes.

I'm thinking that they might even keep the "Bills" part of the name initially. IMO though it would be a big fail to assume that most current fans will continue to follow the team. I mean who wants to go through a border-crossing every time to go see a game, or much less, on the way back from one, particularly if they've had a few beers.

I see 90% of the fanbase losing interest if that were to happen.

I mean what would you do better days? Assume that the team did in fact move to Ontario, just over the border even, say less than an hour, including the border crossing time, from say the Buffalo suburbs.

Would you continue to follow that team knowing that the chances of it ever coming back to Buffalo in your lifetime were slim to nil?

I wouldn't. I wouldn't consider it a Buffalo team anymore, or even a NY team, ... as clearly it wouldn't be, but just the same and being the closest NFL team, I think I'd rather root for a team that didn't take mine away. My interest in the NFL would merely become a general one if/when that happened.

Anyway, curious what you'd do if that were to happen?

[Fletch]

As I said it won't be long & I will no longer have to read the STUPID talk of the Bills moving.

PS, What I'm tired of is the stupid talk of the Bills losing and why. It's trivial and fundamental as to why, it's just that the dunderheads that run the team are ignoramuses.

This would be much more difficult for me to stomach if the Bills didn't have an abysmal record of performance outside of the Polian era team. There's no reason to even hope that they'll make the playoffs in Buffalo, even if they are here through the 2020 season, only seven more seasons.

I'll be much more upset if the org actually goes out and hires a competent coach who in turn then provides us with winning football. That would aggravate me to no end.

[Fletch]

BTW, the TV market also plays into it, and if you think that the Bills have a big TV market, think again. It may be better than a few, but even the scattered remnants of Bills fans throughout the country cannot match what the Canadian TV market would be for their first team.

[better days]

Where we agree is that it won't be long. You're way off on the rest.

For starters, I cannot tell you how many Bills fans, fans that I attended the '90s era SB team games with for instance, that have simply given up for the most part due to the negligence in the administration of the team rendering something simple into some experts-only mental effort while simultaneously reducing the effectiveness of this team to proverbial rubble.

Only politicians or some government agency could do worse.

Otherwise, you talk as if Buffalo has a bigger fanbase than say Toronto and Ontario, really reaching all of Canada as the NFL's first both international as well as Canadian team would, which is a huge mistake.

The other even more notable mistake that you make in your calculations is that the NFL doesn't give a crap about the "average fan" or "joe blue-collar fan" anymore. It's entirely about the Benjamins and the corporate support for teams. Just take a good hard look around the league, what do you see?

You see almost every stadium named after a huge corporate sponsor, the likes of which simply don't exist in WNY or Buffalo.

Gillette Stadium, Fed Ex Field, Met Life Stadium, AT&T Stadium, Sports Authority Field, Sun Life Stadium, Bank of America Stadium, Mercedes-Benz stadium, First Energy Stadium, NRG Stadium, M&T Bank Stadium, Qualcom Stadium, Lincoln Financial Field, Levi's Stadium, EverBank Field, Century Link Field, Edward Jones Dome, Raymond James Stadium, Heinz Field, Ford Field, University of Phoenix Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, TCF Bank Stadium.

The days of "Rockpile" like public stadiums are over. When one corporation bows out, there's another to buy the naming rights. They're almost all financed by public tax dollars, unfortunately.

I appreciate your zeal, and the emotional part of me encourages it, but the reality of it makes no sense. I'm also not necessarily trying to discourage your thinking and others that think like it, just trying to warn you to not be too disappointed when what you're hoping for doesn't come to pass.

The biggest thing about this is, or will be, what the other 31 owners want. Wilson's best friends passed away before he did. The old school owners like Davis and Adams are all but gone. Money and nothing else drives this NFL train.

They're all saying publicly what the public wants to hear, particularly those most sensitive to the issue, namely Bills fans like us, but the reality is that Wilson's ownership opinions were not popular with modern era owners when he was here, for years even. So why would they be popular now.

The NFL benefits as a unit, more so than any other sport. If they can boost their revenues and profits by even a significant amount, that's what they'll vote for, and unfortunately that's not going to involve keeping the team in Buffalo. For now they're "playing the game" as it were, saying what everyone wants to hear, but once the rumors and talk soften things up, watch how fast the county politicians start talking about a buyout because if they don't get one, the team will leave and they'll get nothing, ... "for the county" of course.

Either way, I don't see anything even remotely approaching 24 of the 31 other owners supporting the team remaining in Buffalo over an option like expansion to Canada, hence internationally, and into an enormous financially based market that is sure to build a state-of-the-art stadium and usher the NFL into its international era.

It may not be Portland, or L.A., or another US city, but the owners are going to do what puts money into their pocket(s), not what's nostalgically or emotionally popular by a fanbase that's scattered as it is, much less what's in it for a small smoldering financial region that really cannot support a team in the modern financial era of the NFL.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is. We agree on what we'd like to see happen, the cards are just so stacked against it that it never will. I'd say that the best that we can hope for, and IMO this is the odds-on likelihood, is for a Toronto/Ontarian interest to buy the team and relocate it just on the other side of the border, say NF or St. Catherines, hoping that the US portion of the fanbase, aka Buffalonians and other WNY-ers, will continue their interest, particularly that it'll be the same TV market for all intents and purposes.

I'm thinking that they might even keep the "Bills" part of the name initially. IMO though it would be a big fail to assume that most current fans will continue to follow the team. I mean who wants to go through a border-crossing every time to go see a game, or much less, on the way back from one, particularly if they've had a few beers.

I see 90% of the fanbase losing interest if that were to happen.

I mean what would you do better days? Assume that the team did in fact move to Ontario, just over the border even, say less than an hour, including the border crossing time, from say the Buffalo suburbs.

Would you continue to follow that team knowing that the chances of it ever coming back to Buffalo in your lifetime were slim to nil?

I wouldn't. I wouldn't consider it a Buffalo team anymore, or even a NY team, ... as clearly it wouldn't be, but just the same and being the closest NFL team, I think I'd rather root for a team that didn't take mine away. My interest in the NFL would merely become a general one if/when that happened.

Anyway, curious what you'd do if that were to happen?

There are pseudo Bills fans that are not true Buffalo Bills fans. People from Canada & other parts of America that follow the Bills for whatever reason.

Those people may follow the new team the Bills would become if they moved.

But the vast majority of Bills fans are TRUE BUFFALO Bills fans that would no longer have anything to do with the NFL if the Bills moved.

We are talking about a lot of lost money if the Bills fan base stops watching the NFL.

I posted before that Robert Rich (an apt name) has said he & his friends view the Bills as a cultural asset of WNY & he & his friends will do everything in their power to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

That is the reason I am so sure the Bills will not move. The people that will buy the Bills to keep them in Buffalo are not going to do that to make money, but more like the Albricht-Knox Art Gallery, as a Cultural asset.

But if the Bills ever were to move, I would no longer follow them or give the NFL another red cent of my money.

[GingerP]

When the new owner is named & it is known he has ties to Buffalo, which he will, all talk about the Bills moving can & should end.

A new stadium is a forgone conclusion. It is just a question of where it goes & if it will have a roof or not.

I disagree. The big question, the only real question, is how is it going to be paid for.

Any new stadium is going to get built with a big subsidy of public funds of some sort and possibly PSL's? The question is, how will that negotiation to have public monies spent on a new stadium go? How will a fan base that traditionally has paid lower-tier ticket prices react to paying higher prices and possibly a big chunk of funds up front for a PSL?

That will ultimately be the determining factor, IMO.

[better days]

I disagree. The big question, the only real question, is how is it going to be paid for.

Any new stadium is going to get built with a big subsidy of public funds of some sort and possibly PSL's? The question is, how will that negotiation to have public monies spent on a new stadium go? How will a fan base that traditionally has paid lower-tier ticket prices react to paying higher prices and possibly a big chunk of funds up front for a PSL?

That will ultimately be the determining factor, IMO.

I posted in another thread, a group of Bills fans are starting a fund to put towards the new Stadium.

They expect to collect about $100 Million for it.

NY State, Erie County (as long as the Stadium is located there) & the NFL will also contribute to the new Stadium.

[YardRat]

Just for giggles, let's assume the team does cross the border, somewhere in southern Ontario or even Toronto...How would the TV gig work?

[better days]

Just for giggles, let's assume the team does cross the border, somewhere in southern Ontario or even Toronto...How would the TV gig work?

I would expect the same way it does now.

CTV pays the NFL for the right to televise NFL games in Canada.