New stadium rumors

[Buckets]

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/sports-nfl/20140410/Bills-Future/

Let Western New Yorkers decide not a bunch of politicians

[WagonCircler]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.

[trapezeus]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.

it would be better for buffalo to get a downtown stadium and have the high speed trains bring you to the door as part of the buffalo billion project.

In the long run, it's better to have better transportation outside of driving. all these roads cost a lot and are inefficient manner of getting around. buffalo and NYS are thinking further ahead than 5 years. It has to be about spending tax money correctly to build a stadium, not simply to save a team.

a stadium downtown, with low tax zones to spur restaurants and shops, is way better for the region than having the ralph placed in another podunk outskirt and expecting people to drive everywhere. it's not very forward looking, in my opinion.

[justasportsfan]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.


meh. People won't be flying in to go hang out in cowpile country. Downtown buffalo would be ideal but I'm okay with niagara. People would want to fly in with their family for the weekend and see the falls +++ .

[Novacane]

I agree. They'd have to build a ton of infrastructure to make Batavia accessible for 70000 people. Downtown Buffalo is the where the stadium should be.

[clumping platelets]

Buying a house in OP near 20A and the 219......keep it in OP :mad:

[WagonCircler]

I agree. They'd have to build a ton of infrastructure to make Batavia accessible for 70000 people. Downtown Buffalo is the where the stadium should be.


I disagree on the infrastructure, but agree somewhat on the Downtown Buffalo part.

I go back and forth on what my #1 choice is, but for now:

1a. Orchard Park- A total rebuild, in stages, on the current site, with a retractible roof.
1b. Bethlehem Steel site/Outer Harbor- Brownfields funds available to clean up, plenty of land. Would hopefully spur some adjacent development. Kills two birds with one stone.

2. Batavia- As I stated above, the infrastructure is already there. Batavia Downs site is right on the Thruway. There are already motels and more room for more. Nobody coming to podunk town? What is Orchard Park? Paris?
3. Niagara Falls- I'm fine with it, but I think the infrastructure needed would be a nightmare. It's already an epic clusterf... I can't imagine what it would take to make a stadium work.

The only reason I brought up Batavia in the thread is that it's a very viable option that nobody ever talks about.

[swiper]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.

The Canadians will say that Batavia is too far for them to travel to. :yle:

[WagonCircler]

The Canadians will say that Batavia is too far for them to travel to. :yle:

Part of my sinister plan to keep their annoying drunk, arrogant asses on their own side of the border.

[Historian]

On top of that Blahtavia is a dump...

[trapezeus]

I disagree on the infrastructure, but agree somewhat on the Downtown Buffalo part.

I go back and forth on what my #1 choice is, but for now:

1a. Orchard Park- A total rebuild, in stages, on the current site, with a retractible roof.
1b. Bethlehem Steel site/Outer Harbor- Brownfields funds available to clean up, plenty of land. Would hopefully spur some adjacent development. Kills two birds with one stone.

2. Batavia- As I stated above, the infrastructure is already there. Batavia Downs site is right on the Thruway. There are already motels and more room for more. Nobody coming to podunk town? What is Orchard Park? Paris?
3. Niagara Falls- I'm fine with it, but I think the infrastructure needed would be a nightmare. It's already an epic clusterf... I can't imagine what it would take to make a stadium work.

The only reason I brought up Batavia in the thread is that it's a very viable option that nobody ever talks about.

that was my point on Podunk. is that we've already done this mistake and buffalo, the city paid for that dearly. The future for cities is building in it, not making it accessible to get to their suburbs.

buffalo is making the right moves of late. keep it going and build in the city or in niagara falls.

[OpIv37]

Those of you clamoring for a downtown stadium: have you ever actually been to a sporting event at a downtown stadium before?

I've been to baseball and football games in DC and Baltimore plenty of times.

Advantages: stuff to do before and after the game.

Disadvantages: pretty much everything else. Parking and public transportation are both woefully insufficient. Traffic is terrible. There is no tailgating culture because the only people who can afford the lots close to the stadium aren't exactly the typical tailgating type. And pregaming at a bar is much more expensive than tailgating.

[Turf]

Pembroke. Been saying it for years. Dome. Sellouts for every game.

[sukie]

Just go with the falls. Plenty of land and crappy adjacent housing that could be purchased and the mafia there is very greasable... more so than the NFTA.

Any word on the Summit Park Mall site Plenty of land and parking from what I remember unless that got all built up prior to the mall tanking

[don137]

Lots more revenue if it's downtown since people would go out to eat, drink, etc. Easier access for out of towners. Tailgating is not as fun.

Niagra Falls would make it easier for Canadians and could increase fan base and ticket sales as result.

[better days]

it would be better for buffalo to get a downtown stadium and have the high speed trains bring you to the door as part of the buffalo billion project.

In the long run, it's better to have better transportation outside of driving. all these roads cost a lot and are inefficient manner of getting around. buffalo and NYS are thinking further ahead than 5 years. It has to be about spending tax money correctly to build a stadium, not simply to save a team.

a stadium downtown, with low tax zones to spur restaurants and shops, is way better for the region than having the ralph placed in another podunk outskirt and expecting people to drive everywhere. it's not very forward looking, in my opinion.

For the Bills to remain viable, they have to be a regional team like the Pats* Batavia is a MUCH better place for the Stadium than the City of Buffalo for the entire region to get to it easily.

And Batavia is not as much a podunk outskirt as Foxborough Mass.

[better days]

Lots more revenue if it's downtown since people would go out to eat, drink, etc. Easier access for out of towners. Tailgating is not as fun.

Niagra Falls would make it easier for Canadians and could increase fan base and ticket sales as result.

Niagara Falls would be MUCH harder to get to for most people on this side of the border & even Canadians might have just as difficult a time getting to the Falls as they do the Ralph because traffic would back up at the bridge.

[trapezeus]

if you want the bills to be the team of hte next few years, build the stadium in a smaller suburb. if you want the bills to help buffalo, you put it downtown.

yes, you might have to go to a restaurant before the game or go to a bar. you are going with the same people. this is still buffalo. a bunch of snobs aren't going to descend on buffalo and screw the experience over. the sabres games and any events at FNC are pretty fun at pearl st grill.

buffalo's vibrancy needs more traffic flow and the more it's not about just getting back in your car and heading back, the better off the city is.

i really think batavia/pembroke is an old idea that will be a gigantic disservice for the area.

if you build a stadium that is multipurpose, includes the UB bulls games, possible convention center, it generates more people coming to downtown and creates a better community.

[OpIv37]

if you want the bills to be the team of hte next few years, build the stadium in a smaller suburb. if you want the bills to help buffalo, you put it downtown.

yes, you might have to go to a restaurant before the game or go to a bar. you are going with the same people. this is still buffalo. a bunch of snobs aren't going to descend on buffalo and screw the experience over. the sabres games and any events at FNC are pretty fun at pearl st grill.

buffalo's vibrancy needs more traffic flow and the more it's not about just getting back in your car and heading back, the better off the city is.

i really think batavia/pembroke is an old idea that will be a gigantic disservice for the area.

if you build a stadium that is multipurpose, includes the UB bulls games, possible convention center, it generates more people coming to downtown and creates a better community.

The key here would be making it multipurpose. Even with 70k people, 10 home games a year isn't going to fix downtown. They really need to figure out how to get as much use as possible out of any potential downtown stadium.

[WagonCircler]

I'd love to see a study regarding how many attendees at NFL games are there on day trips, vs how many stay overnight. My guess would be that it's upwards of 90%.

That's why I'd like to see the Bills go after the Central NY market. I'm thinking of Syracuse, in particular. A stadium in Batavia or Pembroke would shave about 2 hours, round trip, off of a commute for Syracuse ticket buyers. And it would sell a lot more Rochester tickets, I think.

I get why people want to see it Downtown, and I agree, mostly. But I always go back to the fact that RWS is used, by and large, for less than ten days a year. I'm not sure it would offset the difference in comparative property values between downtown and a more outlying area to have it there. Sure, you get ten good days for restaurants and bars, etc. But there are 355 other days in the year that it just sits.

I just have visions of total gridlock in my head with a Nia Falls stadium, especially. But a Buffalo stadium, too.

I don't know. All I care about is that it's within 40 miles of here.

[justasportsfan]

For the Bills to remain viable, they have to be a regional team like the Pats* Batavia is a MUCH better place for the Stadium than the City of Buffalo for the entire region to get to it easily.

And Batavia is not as much a podunk outskirt as Foxborough Mass.


IMO even though I live in Rochacha I would rather travel to Niagara and see the sights and hang out there than go to batavia . I'm not talking about the canadian ballet either. I am guessing that out of state fans would rather go to Niagara with their families as well.

[justasportsfan]

I'd love to see a study regarding how many attendees at NFL games are there on day trips, vs how many stay overnight. My guess would be that it's upwards of 90%.

I would like to see the study too. If you were a bills fan that live in Chicago, would you rather watch a bills game in Miami or in Greenbay? I know it's not quite the same comparison as Batavia vs Niagara but still. Although cow tipping in Batavia could be fun.

[better days]

IMO even though I live in Rochacha I would rather travel to Niagara and see the sights and hang out there than go to batavia . I'm not talking about the canadian ballet either. I am guessing that out of state fans would rather go to Niagara with their families as well.

Have you ever gone to the American side of the Falls?

It is a CRAP HOLE & VERY DIFFICULT & time consuming to get to & that is without 70,000 other people going to the same place at the same time there.

I dated a girl from the Falls for about 6 Months. I broke up with her because I HATED the trip to her house & back.

I decided I did not love her more than I hated that trip.

[justasportsfan]

Have you ever gone to the American side of the Falls?

It is a CRAP HOLE & VERY DIFFICULT & time consuming to get to & that is without 70,000 other people going to the same place at the same time there.

I dated a girl from the Falls for about 6 Months. I broke up with her because I HATED the trip to her house & back.

I decided I did not love her more than I hated that trip.I live in Rochester so batavia is closer but I would go overnight to watch a game in Niagara. It's a craphole now but if a stadium is built in the area could have more tourists which would improve the area . Less traffic in batavia but stinks like manure. It's like being in Amish country.

[CoolBreeze]

For some reason building a stadium in Niagara Falls to benefit Canadian fans sort of irks me. I'm sure they have some great loyal fans, and nothing against them. But just the thought of more than a 1/3 of the stadium wearing the other teams color and cheering whenever there's a TD for either team is enough to make one lose sleep. I could be very wrong though, thats just the impression I got from the Toronto games.

I like the idea of a downtown stadium. Though traffic, and crime problems will become more common. and as many have said tailgating will never be the same. But It will benefit the city itself, and not only for economic growth. Having a top notch stadium in a smaller working ciass city would be a huge morale boost for the region and it's people. A big F U to the likes of Dallas and New York. I really liked the high speed train idea that trapezeus had. That would be very cool.

Batavia would be a long shot IMO. Most of it is very rundown, and if you've been there on a busy day or during rush hour you already know its god awful traffic. And that is with no stadium, I can't imagine traffic with a stadium. Batavia is a nice enough place to be, and there is room for it. I just don't see it happening. Living south of Rochester it'd be nice to have the Bills so close.

My gut tells me I don't care, just put the new stadium wherever it is that keeps them in Buffalo the longest.

[swiper]

I haven't been to the area in awhile, but aren't those bridges to Canada a nightmare now even during so-called "off" hours?

[better days]

For some reason building a stadium in Niagara Falls to benefit Canadian fans sort of irks me. I'm sure they have some great loyal fans, and nothing against them. But just the thought of more than a 1/3 of the stadium wearing the other teams color and cheering whenever there's a TD for either team is enough to make one lose sleep. I could be very wrong though, thats just the impression I got from the Toronto games.

I like the idea of a downtown stadium. Though traffic, and crime problems will become more common. and as many have said tailgating will never be the same. But It will benefit the city itself, and not only for economic growth. Having a top notch stadium in a smaller working ciass city would be a huge morale boost for the region and it's people. A big F U to the likes of Dallas and New York. I really liked the high speed train idea that trapezeus had. That would be very cool.

Batavia would be a long shot IMO. Most of it is very rundown, and if you've been there on a busy day or during rush hour you already know its god awful traffic. And that is with no stadium, I can't imagine traffic with a stadium. Batavia is a nice enough place to be, and there is room for it. I just don't see it happening. Living south of Rochester it'd be nice to have the Bills so close.

My gut tells me I don't care, just put the new stadium wherever it is that keeps them in Buffalo the longest.

I think Batavia or where the Stadium is now are better locations than the Falls or Downtown for the Bills to survive long term.

Orchard Park is EASY to get to even for Canadians, so it takes them an extra 20 minutes.

It is still a shorter ride than to MANY Stadiums. Have any of you gone from Boston to Foxborough? Now that is a LONG BORING ride.

The Idea of mass transit to downtown is great, but it would cost a fortune. And that would be in addition to the cost of the Stadium.

[WagonCircler]

I would like to see the study too. If you were a bills fan that live in Chicago, would you rather watch a bills game in Miami or in Greenbay? I know it's not quite the same comparison as Batavia vs Niagara but still. Although cow tipping in Batavia could be fun.

I lived in Chicago for 8 years. I went to many Bears games, and even a couple Bills/Bears games. And a Bills Packers game in Milwaukee County Stadium.

In all cases, my biggest concern was not getting stuck in traffic. If the stadium had been in Schaumburg or Palatine or Rolling Meadows, where the Arlington Park racetrack was, I'd have been thrilled.

I get that some people are tourists who go to Bills games. I just think they're in the minority. I think 90% go to tailgate and to watch football, and the faster they can GTFO, the better.

It's one of the things I love about the Ralph. I have my same shortcuts, Brompton to McKinley Pkwy, to Lake Ave, to the Skyway. BOOM. Keep me movin'. Watch the police and the tax man miss me.

[YardRat]

Those of you clamoring for a downtown stadium: have you ever actually been to a sporting event at a downtown stadium before?

No, nobody from WNY that posts here has ever been to a Sabres or Bisons game. Ever.

[YardRat]

I'd put it in Niagara Falls just because it would give a nice, big middle finger to Erie County.

If a new stadium is ever actually built, it will either be downtown or in Niagara Falls, and the bigger sweetheart deal wins.

[better days]

No, nobody from WNY that posts here has ever been to a Sabres or Bisons game. Ever.

I have not been to the new Aud, but I went to the old aud MANY times for Sabres & Braves games. I have also been to some Bison games & love that Stadium.

But far less people go to watch the Sabres & Bisons than the Bills. Traffic would be totally different for the Bills than the Sabres or Bisons.

[better days]

I'd put it in Niagara Falls just because it would give a nice, big middle finger to Erie County.

If a new stadium is ever actually built, it will either be downtown or in Niagara Falls, and the bigger sweetheart deal wins.

Well, MANY more people, especially people with money live in Erie County than Niagara County so Erie County can much better help pay for the Stadium than Niagara County.

The Falls is just a TERRIBLE idea.

[DetDannyWilliams]

perfect spot for the stadium, Lancaster Gunville Rd and Genessee where Dunn Tire Raceway which used to be called Lancaster Speedway, I pass the raceway everyday when I go to work lots of land for tailgating and I know for a fact that Dunn Tire is losing money on the raceway and the Villiage of Lancaster doesn't want it. The NYS thruway runs right passed it and it's easy to get out of if you turn left you go to Genessee and then if you turn right you go to Transit Rd. If you stay on Genesee and cross transit you hit the airport. If you turn right you can either cross Wherle or go straight up to Main St. where Main hits Transit.

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Tire+Raceway+Park,+Gunnville+Road,+Lancaster,+NY&aq=0&oq=dunn+tire+raceway&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=6.267889,14.293213&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=42.950072,-78.627452&spn=0.006295,0.006295&t=h&output=embed"></iframe>
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[better days]

perfect spot for the stadium, Lancaster Gunville Rd and Genessee where Dunn Tire Raceway which used to be called Lancaster Speedway, I pass the raceway everyday when I go to work lots of land for tailgating and I know for a fact that Dunn Tire is losing money on the raceway and the Villiage of Lancaster doesn't want it. The NYS thruway runs right passed it and it's easy to get out of if you turn left you go to Genessee and then if you turn right you go to Transit Rd. If you stay on Genesee and cross transit you hit the airport. If you turn right you can either cross Wherle or go straight up to Main St. where Main hits Transit.

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Tire+Raceway+Park,+Gunnville+Road,+Lancaster,+NY&aq=0&oq=dunn+tire+raceway&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=6.267889,14.293213&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=42.950072,-78.627452&spn=0.006295,0.006295&t=h&output=embed"></iframe>
<small>View Larger Map (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Tire+Raceway+Park,+Gunnville+Road,+Lancaster,+NY&aq=0&oq=dunn+tire+raceway&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=6.267889,14.293213&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=42.950072,-78.627452&spn=0.006295,0.006295&t=h)</small>

I used to go to Lancaster Speedway all the time. GOOD access & if Batavia stinks, I think this would be a GOOD location for the new Stadium.

[YardRat]

I have not been to the new Aud, but I went to the old aud MANY times for Sabres & Braves games. I have also been to some Bison games & love that Stadium.

But far less people go to watch the Sabres & Bisons than the Bills. Traffic would be totally different for the Bills than the Sabres or Bisons.

Granted, but a hockey game in Buffalo is no different than a baseball game in Baltimore or DC.

[Scumbag College]

I'd love to see a study regarding how many attendees at NFL games are there on day trips, vs how many stay overnight. My guess would be that it's upwards of 90%.

That's why I'd like to see the Bills go after the Central NY market. I'm thinking of Syracuse, in particular. A stadium in Batavia or Pembroke would shave about 2 hours, round trip, off of a commute for Syracuse ticket buyers. And it would sell a lot more Rochester tickets, I think.

I get why people want to see it Downtown, and I agree, mostly. But I always go back to the fact that RWS is used, by and large, for less than ten days a year. I'm not sure it would offset the difference in comparative property values between downtown and a more outlying area to have it there. Sure, you get ten good days for restaurants and bars, etc. But there are 355 other days in the year that it just sits.

I just have visions of total gridlock in my head with a Nia Falls stadium, especially. But a Buffalo stadium, too.

I don't know. All I care about is that it's within 40 miles of here.

Being from Syracuse, I have been dissuaded to go to all but a few Bills games for the past decade or so due to the travel time. Leaving right after the game to Exit 50 on the Thruway is at least a two hour chore, and then it's another 2+ hours after traffic thins out around Rochester. I'm not saying that the stadium has to be as far east as Batavia, but moving the stadium to Niagara Falls would really alienate the Rochester/Syracuse fan base. And the idea of a downtown stadium in Buffalo is great in theory, but I would imagine it would be a huge undertaking.

I'm not an expert on the geography of Williamsville, Depew, and Pembrooke, but I think it would really go a long way to get people from Syracuse, Utica, and even Albany to come out to the games to build a stadium somewhere right off of Exit 48A to 50.

Other than SU's football team, which is only big to Syracuse students and anyone within city limits and the suburbs here, we don't really have much in the way of big time football in central NY. The Bills are still a pretty big deal around here, but making the games easier for us to get to and shaving at least two hours off of the ride home would get people really interested in buying up tickets and getting to the games live. I know there was the movement for the Bills to go "regional" with the move of TC to St. John's Fisher, but I don't think that went far enough.

[Turf]

perfect spot for the stadium, Lancaster Gunville Rd and Genessee where Dunn Tire Raceway which used to be called Lancaster Speedway, I pass the raceway everyday when I go to work lots of land for tailgating and I know for a fact that Dunn Tire is losing money on the raceway and the Villiage of Lancaster doesn't want it. The NYS thruway runs right passed it and it's easy to get out of if you turn left you go to Genessee and then if you turn right you go to Transit Rd. If you stay on Genesee and cross transit you hit the airport. If you turn right you can either cross Wherle or go straight up to Main St. where Main hits Transit.

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Tire+Raceway+Park,+Gunnville+Road,+Lancaster,+NY&aq=0&oq=dunn+tire+raceway&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=6.267889,14.293213&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=42.950072,-78.627452&spn=0.006295,0.006295&t=h&output=embed"></iframe>
<small>View Larger Map (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=Dunn+Tire+Raceway+Park,+Gunnville+Road,+Lancaster,+NY&aq=0&oq=dunn+tire+raceway&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=6.267889,14.293213&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=42.950072,-78.627452&spn=0.006295,0.006295&t=h)</small>

Close enough for me. Expand the thruway to 3 lanes in the vicinity. It draws all of the region, and is easier for Rochester and Syracuse. Easy access for everyone. Close to Transit Rd. Win win.

[TigerJ]

Personally, I would be very happy with Batavia, but I can certainly see the arguments against it. Conversely, I would be far less happy with Niagara Falls, but I can see the arguments for it. In any case, by the time it's built, my days of going to football games in person (I don't make many of them as it is) will probably be over.

[better days]

Personally, I would be very happy with Batavia, but I can certainly see the arguments against it. Conversely, I would be far less happy with Niagara Falls, but I can see the arguments for it. In any case, by the time it's built, my days of going to football games in person (I don't make many of them as it is) will probably be over.

I don't think any good argument can be made for the Falls.

With the Stadium in Orchard Park, Canadians cross at both the Peace Bridge & Rainbow Bridge.

If the Stadium were in the Falls, only the Rainbow Bridge would be used & traffic would back up.

It could take longer for Canadians to get to the Stadium in the Falls than it does the Ralph.

And for anyone living outside of Niagara County MUCH LONGER to get to the Stadium.

And as I said before, Erie County has many more taxpayers to help support the Stadium than Niagara County does.

[more cowbell]

Batavia would be a disaster. There's like 2 below average motels in that crap town and a Target...that's not going to bring people in to "Buffalo" to come for a game.

The point of building a new stadium is to maximize profits for the team and surrounding area. This is why downtown and the falls make sense.

Downtown: they're already making strides in revitalizing the city, and adding a professional football stadium/convention center would bring year round traffic to the downtown area...increasing property value and enticing more businesses to operate down there (hotels, restaurants, shops especially).

This method was used in Pittsburgh which was a complete $#it hole 20 years ago...and if anyone has been there recently, you've seen it's the complete opposite of that now. The same could be said for Cincinnati and hell, even Cleveland.

The Falls: All of the reasons I mentioned above apply here as well, but another interesting proposal would be hosting the Super Bowl (assuming there is a roof). The Falls are a great compromise/solution to the Canadian fan base as you literally cannot get any closer to Canada. Visitors would be able to view one of the "wonders of the world" and catch a game ...this would help the team but also BOTH sides of the Falls

Whatever keeps this team in WNY...get it done.

[better days]

Batavia would be a disaster. There's like 2 below average motels in that crap town and a Target...that's not going to bring people in to "Buffalo" to come for a game.

The point of building a new stadium is to maximize profits for the team and surrounding area. This is why downtown and the falls make sense.

Downtown: they're already making strides in revitalizing the city, and adding a professional football stadium/convention center would bring year round traffic to the downtown area...increasing property value and enticing more businesses to operate down there (hotels, restaurants, shops especially).

This method was used in Pittsburgh which was a complete $#it hole 20 years ago...and if anyone has been there recently, you've seen it's the complete opposite of that now. The same could be said for Cincinnati and hell, even Cleveland.

The Falls: All of the reasons I mentioned above apply here as well, but another interesting proposal would be hosting the Super Bowl (assuming there is a roof). The Falls are a great compromise/solution to the Canadian fan base as you literally cannot get any closer to Canada. Visitors would be able to view one of the "wonders of the world" and catch a game ...this would help the team but also BOTH sides of the Falls

Whatever keeps this team in WNY...get it done.

I have gone to a few games in Foxborough to see the Bills play the Pats*

Every time I went, I stayed in Boston, a great City to visit. But the trip from Boston to Foxborough is LONG.

Batavia is not that far from Rochester or Buffalo, especially the Suburbs of Buffalo, Lancaster & Depew which have a number of hotels/motels being near the Airport.

But the site of the old Lancaster Speedway would be a good place for the stadium as well.

[WagonCircler]

None of the options being discussed would be a disaster.

A disaster would be a new stadium in Toronto or LA.

[BertSquirtgum]

Pembroke. Been saying it for years. Dome. Sellouts for every game.

Batavia makes more sense because they have many more hotels. Pembroke has one ****ty motel.

[stuckincincy]

Hmm...wouldn't Erie County demand that $400 million penalty if the Bills left the county?

[YardRat]

Hmm...wouldn't Erie County demand that $400 million penalty if the Bills left the county?

Maybe that was the motivation for the one-year buyout clause.

[stuckincincy]

Maybe that was the motivation for the one-year buyout clause.

Could be, but that's several years down the road:

..."Even if an outsider purchases the Bills with the intent to move them to a larger market like Los Angeles, the team's lease on Ralph Wilson Stadium could prevent them from doing so. The Bills lease with New York State and Erie County has them locked into Buffalo until at least 2019. Any chance at relocation opens up during a one-year window in 2020, when the team can terminate the lease at the cost of $28.3 million.

"The lease's structure and the non-relocation agreement structure is a major inhibitor for someone to come in and buy the team with the speculative expectation of relocating the team to a different market," Marc Ganis of SportsCorp Ltd. told the Buffalo News."...

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/4/6/5587572/buffalo-bills-owner-candidates-jacobs-family-relocate

OTOH, one could whip out Clinton/Gore gems like "it depends on what the meaning of is, is", "there is no controlling legal authority"' or "I have no specific recollection of that." :kid:

[chris66]

I have gone to a few games in Foxborough to see the Bills play the Pats*

Every time I went, I stayed in Boston, a great City to visit. But the trip from Boston to Foxborough is LONG.

Batavia is not that far from Rochester or Buffalo, especially the Suburbs of Buffalo, Lancaster & Depew which have a number of hotels/motels being near the Airport.

But the site of the old Lancaster Speedway would be a good place for the stadium as well.
its only long because of traffic. On a non game day thats a 15-20 min ride. Best bet is to stay in Providence. 20 mins in other direction.

[better days]

its only long because of traffic. On a non game day thats a 15-20 min ride. Best bet is to stay in Providence. 20 mins in other direction.

Who the hell wants to vacation in Providence?

NOT ME. Boston is the place to go for a good time.

Yes it is a long ride because of traffic because of the LIMITED access to Foxborough.

Orchard Park, Batavia, Lancaster all have much better access.

[OpIv37]

No, nobody from WNY that posts here has ever been to a Sabres or Bisons game. Ever.

Sabres can seat less than 19k. Orioles and Nationals can seat 40k, Ravens 70k+.

Going to a Sabres game is not representative of what a downtown football crowd would be like.

[stuckincincy]

Who the hell wants to vacation in Providence?

Plenty of fresh fruit in Provincetown, tho.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Serious question: Has anyone ever been to a football stadium in the last few decades where traffic was not a serious issue?

I honestly can't think of any. It might just be the cost of doing business when you have 60k+ all converging on one spot on the same day.

[YardRat]

Sabres can seat less than 19k. Orioles and Nationals can seat 40k, Ravens 70k+.

Going to a Sabres game is not representative of what a downtown football crowd would be like.

What they can seat, and what they actually do, aren't the same thing. Pretty sure 15-20k empty seats don't add to traffic woes too much.

Knowing Buffalo has a professional hockey team with a downtown stadium and inquiring whether anybody has actually attended a sporting event downtown is just condescending.

[YardRat]

Serious question: Has anyone ever been to a football stadium in the last few decades where traffic was not a serious issue?

I honestly can't think of any. It might just be the cost of doing business when you have 60k+ all converging on one spot on the same day.

I've never had a 'serious' issue with traffic at any professional sporting event I've been to.

[mrbojanglezs]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.

maybe if its just the stadium and not the headquarters can't imagine FAs being thrilled to move to Batavia lol

[mrbojanglezs]

the best option is to build it next to UB North, it would fit perfect with the school's 2020 plan. There is land by the Northtown hockey rink. Yo have the 990, 290, and millersport hwy, maple/sheridan transit road all being access points. It would be a multi use facility.

You can extend the subway to UB North, which has already been mentioned as a possibility. Now you have the subway connecting the harbor center and First Niagara Center and UB North and the stadium. There are nice houses out in Clarence/Getzville, Williamsville so the players wouldn't mind living there

[WagonCircler]

the best option is to build it next to UB North, it would fit perfect with the school's 2020 plan. There is land by the Northtown hockey rink. Yo have the 990, 290, and millersport hwy, maple/sheridan transit road all being access points. It would be a multi use facility.

You can extend the subway to UB North, which has already been mentioned as a possibility. Now you have the subway connecting the harbor center and First Niagara Center and UB North and the stadium. There are nice houses out in Clarence/Getzville, Williamsville so the players wouldn't mind living there

Yeah, but I don't think Amherst would be too happy about it. They fight new hotels like they're nuclear reactors. I can't imagine they fight they'd put up against a new stadium.

Personally, I'd love having the Bills in the Northtowns.

Just spitballing here, but I'd love anything that might help the area around the Central Terminal get cleaned up. My best friend is a Fed and her was a kid in that area. I've been on ride-alongs. It's like driving through an episode of The Wire. Nothing but vacants, block after block. Most of them belong to the city after they've been abandoned, seized for unpaid taxes.

It would be a great story to see some revitalization happen there. Especially if it helped get the Terminal restored.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.

Building the stadium in batavia would be the most ******ed thing ever.

[Skooby]

Building the stadium in batavia would be the most ******ed thing ever.

It'd be $.20 more per trip to Batavia, outrage.

[Turf]

The previous mentioned racetrack location is only like 3 minutes from the Depew exit and the airport, isn't it?

[better days]

Serious question: Has anyone ever been to a football stadium in the last few decades where traffic was not a serious issue?

I honestly can't think of any. It might just be the cost of doing business when you have 60k+ all converging on one spot on the same day.

Traffic in Buffalo & Tampa is not an issue on game day.

Heavier than normal, but it moves.

It is like sitting in a parking lot at times going from Boston to Foxborough.

[OpIv37]

What they can seat, and what they actually do, aren't the same thing. Pretty sure 15-20k empty seats don't add to traffic woes too much.

Knowing Buffalo has a professional hockey team with a downtown stadium and inquiring whether anybody has actually attended a sporting event downtown is just condescending.
Pretty sure you've never been to DC. A car with a flat tire or a light drizzle can add to traffic woes. Hell, they literally report "sunshine delays" on the local news during morning rush hour.

[Skooby]

Miami's stadium is basically in a slum.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It'd be $.20 more per trip to Batavia, outrage.

What does this even mean?

[stuckincincy]

Pretty sure you've never been to DC. A car with a flat tire or a light drizzle can add to traffic woes. Hell, they literally report "sunshine delays" on the local news during morning rush hour.

Sun delays are a problem in Cinci on certain days. Things do slow down, and there's generally a number of crashes.

[Don't Panic]

Places I'd be good with:

1. Outer Harbor Area where the old Pier used to be
2. La Salle Park (loved playing softball there back in the 90s but there are plenty of other places to play)
3. Squaw Island
4. West end of Tonawanda north of where the 290 hits the 190 (near 2 Mile Creek Rd)
5. Right where it is
6. Niagara Falls

There are flaws in all of these, but that's the list as I see it.

I think moving towards Rochester is pointless. If you want a suburban stadium, just spend $400 million and renovate the Ralph. If we're building new, it has to be near a better draw/higher density area.

[DraftBoy]

The area honestly doesn't matter if you don't have the right development and infrastructure around it.

This isn't as simple or as cut and dry as just picking a spot and building a new stadium.

[Mr. Pink]

Downtown Buffalo would be a nightmare as parking there is woefully insufficient as it is.

They'd have to undertake not only building the stadium but also a few parking ramps nearby.

Routes into downtown are sufficient enough to handle the traffic flow as you have 5, 190 and 33 going in.

Pembroke, Batavia would be interesting choices as there is plenty of room to build a stadium, add in a few parking lots and maybe a ramp or two. Niagara Falls could just level a few of the neighbors - no one will miss them anyway as most of the American side of the Falls is a dump - but it would be a massive project and more costly plus the routes into the Falls aren't as friendly as into the city or Pembroke/Batavia.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Batavia is idiotic

Moves farther away from the vast majority of fans in buffalo and southern Ontario

[soapman]

This is such a dumb debate. The stadium belongs in Downtown Buffalo. That's what real cities do. We are talking about catering to 18% of the fan base? The majority of the fan base is in the city. Yes traffic and parking is bad but you revitalize a city through making a move like putting the stadium downtown. No one wants to come to Orchard Park. Why would they want to come to an equally unattractive place like Batavie or the American side of the falls?

[Mr. Pink]

Batavia is idiotic

Moves farther away from the vast majority of fans in buffalo and southern Ontario

Batavia is just as idiotic as OP was, IMO.

[WagonCircler]

Downtown Buffalo would be a nightmare as parking there is woefully insufficient as it is.

They'd have to undertake not only building the stadium but also a few parking ramps nearby.

Routes into downtown are sufficient enough to handle the traffic flow as you have 5, 190 and 33 going in..

This is what I like about the Outer Harbor (former Pier/Shooters location).

You get the best of both worlds. It's still Downtown, for all intents and purposes, and there would be plenty of room for parking/tailgating. Plus, it might finally get the Godforsaken skyway torn down.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Batavia is just as idiotic as OP was, IMO.

Explain what your statement has to do with this current situation.

[Mace]

Those of you clamoring for a downtown stadium: have you ever actually been to a sporting event at a downtown stadium before?

I've been to baseball and football games in DC and Baltimore plenty of times.

Advantages: stuff to do before and after the game.

Disadvantages: pretty much everything else. Parking and public transportation are both woefully insufficient. Traffic is terrible. There is no tailgating culture because the only people who can afford the lots close to the stadium aren't exactly the typical tailgating type. And pregaming at a bar is much more expensive than tailgating.

Assuming for just one fleeting moment that Buffalo as a municipality has the vaguest clue, Downtown is entirely perfect in the general idea of Downtown and the lengthy waterfront.

We've been talking about redoing the roads, have cleared lots of junk, and supposedly intend to clear more, there are acres and acres of useless, they could in theory entirely rebuild and customize a good chunk of useless city to make it everything you want and nothing you don't. They already have it in progress in a general sense with the endless canal district project. This is probably Buffalo's last real chance to save itself in our lifetimes, and recreate itself like former rust belt cities have with some degree of success.

If they choose a site elsewhere, Niagara Falls, Batavia, etc, this city is done and it's just a matter of time. This is about the only chance this city has left to put on some good clothes, with any realistic expectation of the state kicking in after decades of us dorking around with state money uselessly and having the bus company own the waterfront when they don't even run good busses.

Hope and pray Mayor Brown wakes from his apathetic coma, they look at and seize the land if they have to (they'll do it for anything else, like an endlessly unfinished bridge projected to be finished in Y2K), and build one simple smart hub of instructure to complement harborcenter and make the city a place again.

In one really short window of time, we have the chance to tailor and customize something to revitalize the city and the population. If they blow this, we're looking at opt-out and it's our own fault while the bootlicks we keep reelecting retire to comfortable lives like they always do.

I guess the whole common sense idea which doesn't seem to be really upsets me. Stop dorking around Buffalo, or die, it's that simple by now.

And I live deep within it.

[BertSquirtgum]

Building the stadium in batavia would be the most ******ed thing ever.

No, no it wouldn't.

[BertSquirtgum]

18% of the fan base? The majority of the fan base is in the city.

No, no it isn't.

[WagonCircler]

We are talking about catering to 18% of the fan base? The majority of the fan base is in the city.

Where does that number come from?

I don't think anywhere close to a majority is in the city. And unlike many fan bases, I think we are in odd situation in that Buffalo isn't even the geographic center of the fan base.

Once you go west, into Ohio and PA, the overwhelming number of Steelers fans and generations of Browns fans makes Bills fans rare. I would think that the majority of Bills fans are in all of the suburbs, in every direction (obviously there are no due west suburbs in Lake Erie) and eastward, as well as northward in Southern Ontario.

I'd personally like to see the stadium, provided that we actually get one, very close to Downtown, but I don't think there's one Bills fan in WNY would would consider any of the sites being discussed in this thread as a deal breaker.

I can't imagine even one serious person who doesn't have some kind of agenda (i.e. passive aggressive Canadians who really want the Bills to move to Toronto but pretend otherwise) who would rather see the Bills go away rather than see them in Batavia or Lancaster or Niagara Falls.

If we actually get a new stadium, that means we have a new, local owner committed to keeping the team here for at least 20 or 30 years. And if that's the case, I don't care if they build it on Jefferson and Best streets or the freaking Love Canal, I'll just be happy to have the Sword of Damocles no longer hanging above our heads.

So and comments like "Batavia would be ******ed" of "F - - - Pembroke" are....******ed.

[better days]

Places I'd be good with:

1. Outer Harbor Area where the old Pier used to be
2. La Salle Park (loved playing softball there back in the 90s but there are plenty of other places to play)
3. Squaw Island
4. West end of Tonawanda north of where the 290 hits the 190 (near 2 Mile Creek Rd)
5. Right where it is
6. Niagara Falls

There are flaws in all of these, but that's the list as I see it.

I think moving towards Rochester is pointless. If you want a suburban stadium, just spend $400 million and renovate the Ralph. If we're building new, it has to be near a better draw/higher density area.

I don't think anyone could come up with a worse list of sites in Western New York than the above list.

[better days]

This is such a dumb debate. The stadium belongs in Downtown Buffalo. That's what real cities do. We are talking about catering to 18% of the fan base? The majority of the fan base is in the city. Yes traffic and parking is bad but you revitalize a city through making a move like putting the stadium downtown. No one wants to come to Orchard Park. Why would they want to come to an equally unattractive place like Batavie or the American side of the falls?

Cheektowaga alone has a greater population than the City of Buffalo.

Add in West Seneca, Depew /Lancaster, Orchard Park, Amherst, ETC., The Suburbs DWARF the City of Buffalo in population & the number of Bills fans.

[Skooby]

Cheektowaga alone has a greater population than the City of Buffalo.

Add in West Seneca, Depew /Lancaster, Orchard Park, Amherst, ETC., The Suburbs DWARF the City of Buffalo in population & the number of Bills fans.

How many of those folks in Cheektowaga have eaten at Captain's cove , bought Scheafers light from Fays drug store, danced at Club Otto's, ate pudding at Lums ? That's what I want to know.

[BertSquirtgum]

How many of those folks in Cheektowaga have eaten at Captain's cove , bought Scheafers light from Fays drug store, danced at Club Otto's, ate pudding at Lums ? That's what I want to know.

What the **** does it matter?

[Skooby]

What the **** does it matter?

It's all relative to Cheektowagonians.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Where does that number come from?

I don't think anywhere close to a majority is in the city. And unlike many fan bases, I think we are in odd situation in that Buffalo isn't even the geographic center of the fan base.

Once you go west, into Ohio and PA, the overwhelming number of Steelers fans and generations of Browns fans makes Bills fans rare. I would think that the majority of Bills fans are in all of the suburbs, in every direction (obviously there are no due west suburbs in Lake Erie) and eastward, as well as northward in Southern Ontario.

I'd personally like to see the stadium, provided that we actually get one, very close to Downtown, but I don't think there's one Bills fan in WNY would would consider any of the sites being discussed in this thread as a deal breaker.

I can't imagine even one serious person who doesn't have some kind of agenda (i.e. passive aggressive Canadians who really want the Bills to move to Toronto but pretend otherwise) who would rather see the Bills go away rather than see them in Batavia or Lancaster or Niagara Falls.

If we actually get a new stadium, that means we have a new, local owner committed to keeping the team here for at least 20 or 30 years. And if that's the case, I don't care if they build it on Jefferson and Best streets or the freaking Love Canal, I'll just be happy to have the Sword of Damocles no longer hanging above our heads.

So and comments like "Batavia would be ******ed" of "F - - - Pembroke" are....******ed.

You are right. The geographic middle would be North in Niagara Falls, which is why I would understand building it there.

Building it in the middle of freaking nowhere with absolutely nothing around it just seems foolish.

I prefer Downtown Buffalo of course. No city with a downtown stadium has easy access in and out on game day. Why even discuss that matter. Of course getting in and out will be hard. I would hope a downtown stadium would include a more revamped trolly/Metrorail system.

Building a stadium in a tiny town like Batavia would just be VERY odd. While the stadium committe certainly needs to explore all possibilities I would throw out a guarantee it will not be in Batavia because as stated it is in the middle of nowhere, and further away from the geographic middle of the fan base.

[better days]

You are right. The geographic middle would be North in Niagara Falls, which is why I would understand building it there.

Building it in the middle of freaking nowhere with absolutely nothing around it just seems foolish.

I prefer Downtown Buffalo of course. No city with a downtown stadium has easy access in and out on game day. Why even discuss that matter. Of course getting in and out will be hard. I would hope a downtown stadium would include a more revamped trolly/Metrorail system.

Building a stadium in a tiny town like Batavia would just be VERY odd. While the stadium committe certainly needs to explore all possibilities I would throw out a guarantee it will not be in Batavia because as stated it is in the middle of nowhere, and further away from the geographic middle of the fan base.

Well, I don't think Batavia would be any more odd than building a Stadium in the booming metropolis of Foxborough.

I think the over riding factor in choosing a new site should be ease of access for the greatest number of fans.

I think mass transit would be great, but that is a huge expense to add to the Stadium bill.

Niagara Falls would be a difficult ride for anyone not living in Niagara County.

The outer Harbor in Buffalo has LIMITED access.

I think Lancaster or Batavia would make most sense for the most people to get to the game fast & easy.

Orchard Park & Downtown would be next on my list.

[Mr. Pink]

Explain what your statement has to do with this current situation.

Shows that Buffalo itself wasn't a prime choice 40 years ago to build the stadium and sets precedent for them to build a stadium outside of the city again.

Also it devalues your idiotic statement a little.

If the goal is to regionalize the team, and who knows if that's the case anymore or would be the case with a new owner, then building outward towards Canada or Rochester would make more sense than putting the stadium in Downtown or the South Towns.

[Fletch]

I'm so glad the article mentions Batavia. I've been screaming for that for 10 years.

Buy Batavia Downs. Raze it. Build Ralph II. Better yet, Rich II. Or Pegula Stadium.

It's prefect. Easily accessible from the NYS Thruway. Rochester and Syracuse are far more interesting markets to cultivate than Canada, IMO.

Raise the speed limit to 75 mph, done and done.

This by far makes the most sense and isn't much further for Canadian fans and is still easy to access. Parking would be so much easier, better, faster, etc. In fact, they could build a special access ramp to the Thruway just for events and games.

There's also rural Rt. 20.

I think that they're too late on this though, the economy in NYS has dropped like a lead balloon over the last five years and is getting worse by the nano-second.

Either way, it does make the most sense of all proposals, draws Rochester right into the mix full instead of half-tilt, and even opens up the drive from Syracuse and points east far more substantially.

[Fletch]

Orchard Park & Downtown would be next on my list.

Downtown makes about as much sense as everyone that thought that a Bass Pro Shops would stimulate the economy in Buffalo.

Cutting taxes would stimulate the economy in WNY and NYS in general, but the state is in a self-fulfilling-prophecy style death spiral in that regard.

The whole "downtown Buffalo" thing sounds nice in theory but will never happen.

[Fletch]

Building a stadium in a tiny town like Batavia would just be VERY odd. While the stadium committe certainly needs to explore all possibilities I would throw out a guarantee it will not be in Batavia because as stated it is in the middle of nowhere, and further away from the geographic middle of the fan base.

Not true, for many Buffalonians the trip to where Darian Lakes is is no farther than OP, or not significantly so.

You also fail to mention how much closer it is for Rochestarians and particularly those from Syracuse, who could shave about 45 minutes off of their over-two-hour drive time to make it a far more reasonable 80-90 minutes.

Even Ithaca and Binghamptom become reasonable at that point.

For Canadians crossing at either Lewiston or NF there's all but no perceptible difference except that the drive to Darian Lakes would be much easier and more rural.

For those in Lockport, Tonawanda, and Amherst I also see no perceptible difference.

[Fletch]

By the way, it's 25 miles exactly from Exit 50 of I-90 to Darian Lake. That's 20 minutes at 75.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Shows that Buffalo itself wasn't a prime choice 40 years ago to build the stadium and sets precedent for them to build a stadium outside of the city again.

Also it devalues your idiotic statement a little.

If the goal is to regionalize the team, and who knows if that's the case anymore or would be the case with a new owner, then building outward towards Canada or Rochester would make more sense than putting the stadium in Downtown or the South Towns.
Why would we care about 40 years ago though and why would it have any bearing on the topic at hand?

[better days]

Downtown makes about as much sense as everyone that thought that a Bass Pro Shops would stimulate the economy in Buffalo.

Cutting taxes would stimulate the economy in WNY and NYS in general, but the state is in a self-fulfilling-prophecy style death spiral in that regard.

The whole "downtown Buffalo" thing sounds nice in theory but will never happen.

I think Lancaster or Batavia make the most sense, but Downtown is a much better option than the outer harbor or the Falls IMO.

[trapezeus]

i'd agree that building downtown to spur growth with nothing else there is a fools errand. but buffalo is slowly reviatilizing. this is a piece to it. if the Bulls signed off for their games downtown, then maybe the campus goes to games via the subway which is largely under utilized.

downtown is getting revitalization dollars without the bills. if you put the bills in the mix, that's better for the city where the medical community has gotten money and pegula has put in the harbor center and a new hotel is on its way. you have to keep adding to that with your biggest visible entity, the bills.

batavia is not anywhere close to foxborough. New England has a denser population and more unified identity than buffalo, rocherster, canada and albany. Albany sees itself as little brother to NYC and much older brother to buffalo. so it's not exactly worth catering to them. i think in my lifetime, i've seen rochester and buffalo seek similarities than point out the differences. and i think the canada fan base has grown.

But those three communities don't really mind the traveling to the games. And the traffic really isn't that bad if you provide alternatives.

[gebobs]

Building in Buffalo is fine and there is plenty of real estate for it and parking. Just don't make the mistake that others have made and build it in an area with the intent of rejuvenating said area (i.e. a slum). People won't go.

[WagonCircler]

Building in Buffalo is fine and there is plenty of real estate for it and parking. Just don't make the mistake that others have made and build it in an area with the intent of rejuvenating said area (i.e. a slum). People won't go.

I think that's yet another reason to build it at the Outer Harbor site or the Bethlehem Steel site. Not slums, just abandoned. Tons of room, no crime, or perception of crime. And with the old Pier site, it's basically still Downtown, but without the parking problems.

[better days]

I think that's yet another reason to build it at the Outer Harbor site or the Bethlehem Steel site. Not slums, just abandoned. Tons of room, no crime, or perception of crime. And with the old Pier site, it's basically still Downtown, but without the parking problems.

The Outer Harbor is just stupid. For one thing, the roads that now exist could not handle the traffic of 70,000 people.

For another, much better use of that land could be made than to have a stadium on it that is used about 10-12 days in a year.

[Mr. Pink]

Why would we care about 40 years ago though and why would it have any bearing on the topic at hand?

It's sets the precedent that the organization, state and county didn't care about having the stadium downtown before.

That and if you think it's idiotic to put the stadium in Pembroke, it's no more idiotic than having the stadium in OP.

[Bill Cody]

it would be better for buffalo to get a downtown stadium and have the high speed trains bring you to the door as part of the buffalo billion project.

In the long run, it's better to have better transportation outside of driving. all these roads cost a lot and are inefficient manner of getting around. buffalo and NYS are thinking further ahead than 5 years. It has to be about spending tax money correctly to build a stadium, not simply to save a team.

a stadium downtown, with low tax zones to spur restaurants and shops, is way better for the region than having the ralph placed in another podunk outskirt and expecting people to drive everywhere. it's not very forward looking, in my opinion.

I would love that but that sounds like it would require a lot of politics. Getting funding for high speed rail sounds like a pipe dream.

[Bill Cody]

The simplest plans are usually the easiest to accomplish especially in the current era of tight state and local budgets. I would lean towards keeping the stadium right where it is, maybe like across the street. No new infrastructure needed and the traffic is manageable. Once the new building is done you implode the old one like they did in Seattle with the Kingdome. In most cases sports stadiums have not proven profitable for anyone except the owners. What you want is an ownership group with deep pockets that can pay the cost of the stadium themselves.

[WagonCircler]

The Outer Harbor is just stupid. For one thing, the roads that now exist could not handle the traffic of 70,000 people.

For another, much better use of that land could be made than to have a stadium on it that is used about 10-12 days in a year.

I've got news for you, Rainbow Boy, the roads aren't adequate in ANY new location to handle 70,000 people. That's part of the reason it makes so much sense.

There's going to need to be infrastructure work done regardless of where the new stadium goes. Why not make that infrastructure work benefit taxpayers 365 days a year rather than 10 days a year?

And if you don't think the Outer Harbor is Downtown, then you've never been to the Outer Harbor and you have ZERO idea what you're babbling about (as per usual).

You can literally throw a rock and hit the FN Center from there.

[WagonCircler]

It's sets the precedent that the organization, state and county didn't care about having the stadium downtown before.

That and if you think it's idiotic to put the stadium in Pembroke, it's no more idiotic than having the stadium in OP.

The reason the stadium wasn't put Downtown in the early 70s has nothing to do with not caring. It has to do with not being able to hide a $1 MIL cash bribe. Trust me on this. Orchard Park was not the preferred option, but it became the necessary one.

[better days]

I've got news for you, Rainbow Boy, the roads aren't adequate in ANY new location to handle 70,000 people. That's part of the reason it makes so much sense.

There's going to need to be infrastructure work done regardless of where the new stadium goes. Why not make that infrastructure work benefit taxpayers 365 days a year rather than 10 days a year?

And if you don't think the Outer Harbor is Downtown, then you've never been to the Outer Harbor and you have ZERO idea what you're babbling about (as per usual).

You can literally throw a rock and hit the FN Center from there.

BS. The roads to the Ralph handle the traffic just fine.

And as has been pointed out already, the access is good to the site of the former Lancaster raceway.

As far as the Outer Harbor, Polencrantz said it was a bad idea for the reasons I named.

[Don't Panic]

I don't think anyone could come up with a worse list of sites in Western New York than the above list.

Sounds like you have a problem with WNY then... unless you have a better list for our better days... better days?

[better days]

Sounds like you have a problem with WNY then... unless you have a better list for our better days... better days?

I already posted it.

1) Batavia

2) Lancaster- site of the former speedway

3) Orchard Park- where the Stadium now sits

4) Downtown- but not the outer harbor.

[mrbojanglezs]

I already posted it.

1) Batavia

2) Lancaster- site of the former speedway

3) Orchard Park- where the Stadium now sits

4) Downtown- but not the outer harbor.

Your not in favor of a Getzville/Amherst location as a multiuse facility between UB and the Bills? Extend the rail from UB south. There is also an extensive busing system that the school has between the two campuses.

Millersport Hwy, Maple Road, Sheridan, Union/N Forest, 990, 290, Transit Road all access points. (not including Main St/33 if we are talking about using transit from UB SOUTH)

[BertSquirtgum]

You are right. The geographic middle would be North in Niagara Falls, which is why I would understand building it there.

Building it in the middle of freaking nowhere with absolutely nothing around it just seems foolish.

I prefer Downtown Buffalo of course. No city with a downtown stadium has easy access in and out on game day. Why even discuss that matter. Of course getting in and out will be hard. I would hope a downtown stadium would include a more revamped trolly/Metrorail system.

Building a stadium in a tiny town like Batavia would just be VERY odd. While the stadium committe certainly needs to explore all possibilities I would throw out a guarantee it will not be in Batavia because as stated it is in the middle of nowhere, and further away from the geographic middle of the fan base.

It's very obvious you've never been to Batavia. Maybe you don't know this but Batavia is a CITY.

[BertSquirtgum]

You are right. The geographic middle would be North in Niagara Falls, which is why I would understand building it there.

Building it in the middle of freaking nowhere with absolutely nothing around it just seems foolish.

I prefer Downtown Buffalo of course. No city with a downtown stadium has easy access in and out on game day. Why even discuss that matter. Of course getting in and out will be hard. I would hope a downtown stadium would include a more revamped trolly/Metrorail system.

Building a stadium in a tiny town like Batavia would just be VERY odd. While the stadium committe certainly needs to explore all possibilities I would throw out a guarantee it will not be in Batavia because as stated it is in the middle of nowhere, and further away from the geographic middle of the fan base.

You just don't like the idea because you would have to travel so far. Guess what? I travel one hour each way to get to orchard park now. Batavia for me would be a 50 minute drive. Batavia has just as much infrastructure as Buffalo minus 15 story buildings.

[Turf]

Lets simplify.
The Western NY Bills, anywhere on the thruway between the Depew and Batavia exits.

[WagonCircler]

BS. The roads to the Ralph handle the traffic just fine.

And as has been pointed out already, the access is good to the site of the former Lancaster raceway.

As far as the Outer Harbor, Polencrantz said it was a bad idea for the reasons I named.

First of all, you obviously struggle with reading comprehension. I'm talking about a new stadium, not the current one.

Second, Poloncarz is full of crap and can be trusted about as far as I can throw the Harbor Center.

I don't have any problem with Lancaster, but I can tell you that people who live out that way are already tweaking about traffic and noise from the Thruway.

Building a stadium on the Outer Harbor would disturb no one. Would displace no one. And it would help get rid of an eyesore of a white elephant the needs to go away.

The situation would be almost identical to Cleveland's, and that is a great stadium. The difference is, ours would have better parking.

[Skooby]

Your not in favor of a Getzville/Amherst location as a multiuse facility between UB and the Bills? Extend the rail from UB south. There is also an extensive busing system that the school has between the two campuses.

Millersport Hwy, Maple Road, Sheridan, Union/N Forest, 990, 290, Transit Road all access points. (not including Main St/33 if we are talking about using transit from UB SOUTH)

It makes to much sense considering we have a division I school & could use a huge capacity there.

[better days]

Your not in favor of a Getzville/Amherst location as a multiuse facility between UB and the Bills? Extend the rail from UB south. There is also an extensive busing system that the school has between the two campuses.

Millersport Hwy, Maple Road, Sheridan, Union/N Forest, 990, 290, Transit Road all access points. (not including Main St/33 if we are talking about using transit from UB SOUTH)

That would be an option as well.

As Hurky said, anywhere in WNY is no problem for me.

I just don't see the Falls or outer harbor happening..........unless Trump gets involved.

[Mouldsie]

I want the stadium close to downtown or Niagara Falls and the infrastructure to follow.

If the stadium goes in NF I heard they might then build a practice facility and team headquarters near UB and share with the D1 team which is a neat idea.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Knocking down all those old buildings and building it on the old harbor is the answer. I'd prefer they turn that into an actual Harbor and something more scenic, but that is an insane amount of money that will never be raised. At least we won't have rusty old buildings.

Can't wait to move back to Buffalo, just a few more months.

[better days]

First of all, you obviously struggle with reading comprehension. I'm talking about a new stadium, not the current one.

Second, Poloncarz is full of crap and can be trusted about as far as I can throw the Harbor Center.

I don't have any problem with Lancaster, but I can tell you that people who live out that way are already tweaking about traffic and noise from the Thruway.

Building a stadium on the Outer Harbor would disturb no one. Would displace no one. And it would help get rid of an eyesore of a white elephant the needs to go away.

The situation would be almost identical to Cleveland's, and that is a great stadium. The difference is, ours would have better parking.

They could build a new Stadium at the site of the current one as other Cities have done.

Noise in Lancaster? even if true which I doubt, it is one day a week 10-12 weeks a year & the thruway has been there forever.

And I doubt a NFL Stadium would make more noise than the Speedway did.

Upgrading the roads in the outer harbor would be more expensive than the locations I named.

[better days]

I want the stadium close to downtown or Niagara Falls and the infrastructure to follow.

If the stadium goes in NF I heard they might then build a practice facility and team headquarters near UB and share with the D1 team which is a neat idea.

I think it is a STUPID idea for the Bills & UB to share practice facilities.

They would be stepping on each others toes.

Name me one NFL team & university that do that.

[gebobs]

I think it is a STUPID idea for the Bills & UB to share practice facilities.
Maybe he meant just share the stadium for games. I'm sure UB has a practice field on campus.

But that brings up a point...what to do with Bulls Stadium if they share one with the Bills?

[better days]

Maybe he meant just share the stadium for games. I'm sure UB has a practice field on campus.

But that brings up a point...what to do with Bulls Stadium if they share one with the Bills?

Well, the USF Bulls play in the same Stadium the Bucs play in, so they could do that as long as it is not on real grass.

[WagonCircler]

I think it is a STUPID idea for the Bills & UB to share practice facilities..

This is why people treat you like an idiot. Because you act like one.

You can disagree with someone without calling their ideas STUPID.

I'll bet you got the snot kicked out of you a lot when you were a kid.

None of these ideas is any better than the next, at this point.

The important part of the question "Where to put the new stadium?" isn't the "Where to put..." part. The important part is "Holy crap---NEW STADIUM!!!"

[better days]

This is why people treat you like an idiot. Because you act like one.

You can disagree with someone without calling their ideas STUPID.

I'll bet you got the snot kicked out of you a lot when you were a kid.

None of these ideas is any better than the next, at this point.

The important part of the question "Where to put the new stadium?" isn't the "Where to put..." part. The important part is "Holy crap---NEW STADIUM!!!"

Give me a friggen break.

I called the IDEA STUPID & it is, but I did not call the person that posted it stupid & denigrate him as you & some others do to me all the time.

BITE ME AHOLE.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's very obvious you've never been to Batavia. Maybe you don't know this but Batavia is a CITY.

Bull**** my wife is from there. I go there all the time. It is no city. It is a suburb like williamsville but smaller.
There is nothing going on there.

[better days]

Bull**** my wife is from there. I go there all the time. It is no city. It is a suburb like williamsville but smaller.
There is nothing going on there.

What is going on in Foxborough?

[THATHURMANATOR]

What is going on in Foxborough?

Who cares what does it have to do with this situation?

[BertSquirtgum]

Bull**** my wife is from there. I go there all the time. It is no city. It is a suburb like williamsville but smaller.
There is nothing going on there.

Actually, It is a city. It's obvious you probably went to the home depot, bed, bath, and beyond or the "casino" by the thruway on the west side of Batavia and never traveled into the city. Do you know there is a big mall in the middle of the city? Did you know it has a race track on the east side of the city? If anything, it would be more comparable to Cheektowaga.

[Mr. Pink]

Bull**** my wife is from there. I go there all the time. It is no city. It is a suburb like williamsville but smaller.
There is nothing going on there.

What's going on in Orchard Park? What was going on there 40 years ago?

And let's be frankly honest here, nothing is going on in downtown Buffalo either.

[gebobs]

What's going on in Orchard Park? What was going on there 40 years ago?
Exactly. It was stupid to put Rich Stadium there.

[gebobs]

Actually, It is a city. It's obvious you probably went to the home depot, bed, bath, and beyond or the "casino" by the thruway on the west side of Batavia and never traveled into the city. Do you know there is a big mall in the middle of the city? Did you know it has a race track on the east side of the city? If anything, it would be more comparable to Cheektowaga.
Population-wise, Cheektawarsaw is about six times bigger. Batavia's population is 15k. That's no city.

[Skooby]

There's strip club in Cheektowaga as well so that puts it ahead of Batavia.

[better days]

Population-wise, Cheektawarsaw is about six times bigger. Batavia's population is 15k. That's no city.

Batavia is about the same size as Foxborough Mass.

Nothing going on in Foxborough either, but the Pats* put a stadium there to REGIONALIZE the team.

[Thief]

if you want the bills to be the team of hte next few years, build the stadium in a smaller suburb. if you want the bills to help buffalo, you put it downtown.

yes, you might have to go to a restaurant before the game or go to a bar. you are going with the same people. this is still buffalo. a bunch of snobs aren't going to descend on buffalo and screw the experience over. the sabres games and any events at FNC are pretty fun at pearl st grill.

buffalo's vibrancy needs more traffic flow and the more it's not about just getting back in your car and heading back, the better off the city is.

i really think batavia/pembroke is an old idea that will be a gigantic disservice for the area.

if you build a stadium that is multipurpose, includes the UB bulls games, possible convention center, it generates more people coming to downtown and creates a better community.I agree with this guy. If going to a bar or dinner cost more, well, that is kind of the point. To spur the local economy. I mean, tailgating is fun, but it is outweighed by the creation of jobs, IMO. And, as long as it isn't banned, people can still tailgate. One guy pays for parking while his crew parks in the cheap seats and all gather at the closer guys car.

[better days]

I agree with this guy. If going to a bar or dinner cost more, well, that is kind of the point. To spur the local economy. I mean, tailgating is fun, but it is outweighed by the creation of jobs, IMO. And, as long as it isn't banned, people can still tailgate. One guy pays for parking while his crew parks in the cheap seats and all gather at the closer guys car.

IMO, the stadium should be located where the most people from WNY & Canada can get to it most easily.

I agree it would help the City of Buffalo to put it downtown, but I question if that is best for the team & fans of the team.

[gebobs]

Batavia is about the same size as Foxborough Mass.

Nothing going on in Foxborough either, but the Pats* put a stadium there to REGIONALIZE the team.

The original Schaefer Stadium (later Foxboro) was built there, not to regionalize at all, but because it was cheap. The land was donated and the team financed the construction itself. And it sucked. People hated it, hated going to Foxboro, and resented the team for it.

As for Gillette Stadium, the "regionalization" was all for the Patriots benefit as they could play one city off another among Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut...as they did. And will in another decade or so. Foxboro was way down the list or the stadium. Kraft wanted it in Boston. Even Providence and Hartford figured ahead of Foxboro at times.

Perhaps that's not the dynamic here. But IMHO, I want to anchor the team to MY city and not loosen those ties. I don't want the possibility that a regional team could move to Rochester or Hamilton or Toronto or whatever. I'm all for generating fan interest in the region, but I wouldn't decide to put the stadium in Batavia with that as the main criteria.

If I was coming to a Bills game from Syracuse, I would much rather drive the extra hour (tops) to Buffalo and patronize at least some decent restaurants and hotels rather than stay at the Super 8 and eat at McDonald's.

[sukie]

If I was coming to a Bills game from Syracuse, I would much rather drive the extra hour (tops) to Buffalo and patronize at least some decent restaurants and hotels rather than stay at the Super 8 and eat at McDonald's.

Hey Niagara Falls gives anyone from Syracuse a nice walk across the Rainbow Bridge and some sweet dusty wax museums!!!!!

[Bill Cody]

The original Schaefer Stadium (later Foxboro) was built there, not to regionalize at all, but because it was cheap. The land was donated and the team financed the construction itself. And it sucked. People hated it, hated going to Foxboro, and resented the team for it.

They were playing games before that at Fenway Park, Boston University and other locations. Having their own stadium,even a cheap one, was a big improvement. Nobody inBoston really cared about the Patriots in those days. They were 4th on the list of major sports.


As for Gillette Stadium, the "regionalization" was all for the Patriots benefit as they could play one city off another among Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut...as they did. And will in another decade or so. Foxboro was way down the list or the stadium. Kraft wanted it in Boston. Even Providence and Hartford figured ahead of Foxboro at times.

Sure Kraft wanted it in Boston. And he got zero political support despite years of trying. Even when he got a sweetheart offer from CT. He built in Foxboro because he didn't want to move to CT. And other than some minor money for infrastructure he paid for it out of his own pocket.


Perhaps that's not the dynamic here. But IMHO, I want to anchor the team to MY city and not loosen those ties. I don't want the possibility that a regional team could move to Rochester or Hamilton or Toronto or whatever. I'm all for generating fan interest in the region, but I wouldn't decide to put the stadium in Batavia with that as the main criteria.

If I was coming to a Bills game from Syracuse, I would much rather drive the extra hour (tops) to Buffalo and patronize at least some decent restaurants and hotels rather than stay at the Super 8 and eat at McDonald's.

It's going to be up to the new owners to decide. The less politically complicated the deal the more likely it is to happen.

[gebobs]

It's going to be up to the new owners to decide. The less politically complicated the deal the more likely it is to happen.
I have every confidence in the political leadership of Buffalo and Erie County that they will eff it up like it's nobody's business.

[better days]

The original Schaefer Stadium (later Foxboro) was built there, not to regionalize at all, but because it was cheap. The land was donated and the team financed the construction itself. And it sucked. People hated it, hated going to Foxboro, and resented the team for it.

As for Gillette Stadium, the "regionalization" was all for the Patriots benefit as they could play one city off another among Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut...as they did. And will in another decade or so. Foxboro was way down the list or the stadium. Kraft wanted it in Boston. Even Providence and Hartford figured ahead of Foxboro at times.

Perhaps that's not the dynamic here. But IMHO, I want to anchor the team to MY city and not loosen those ties. I don't want the possibility that a regional team could move to Rochester or Hamilton or Toronto or whatever. I'm all for generating fan interest in the region, but I wouldn't decide to put the stadium in Batavia with that as the main criteria.

If I was coming to a Bills game from Syracuse, I would much rather drive the extra hour (tops) to Buffalo and patronize at least some decent restaurants and hotels rather than stay at the Super 8 and eat at McDonald's.

FANS go to the Stadium to watch the Bills play, not to go to restaurants.

If a Stadium is built in Batavia, the vast majority of fans won't be going to McDonalds before the game, they will be TAILGATING.

If someone wants to spend more than the afternoon at the game it is no problem to get a room in Buffalo or the Falls with the Stadium in Batavia.

[gebobs]

FANS go to the Stadium to watch the Bills play, not to go to restaurants.
Are you saying that FANS don't go to restaurants when they go to the stadium or wouldn't if there was anything to choose from in OP except for Big Tree Inn?


If a Stadium is built in Batavia, the vast majority of fans won't be going to McDonalds before the game, they will be TAILGATING.
Really? You have stats on that? The vast majority tailgate? Allow me to be skeptical.

And how many of those tailgaters, that hallowed crowd of Bills fans we elevate above the rest, those storied thousands who brave the driving snow to drink cold beer from a solo cup, how many of them would prefer to go to a nice restaurant and have a nice time without a bunch of drunk jackalopes throwing footballs at their heads, pissing on cars, and tossing trash everywhere. In OP, there is not much choice even after 40 years after the Rich was built. In Batavia, same story, different podunk town.

Jesus haploid christ, it's hard enough for Buffalo to present a positive image. But you want people to come to the biggest attraction, or at least one of the biggest attractions, that Buffalo has and have them schlep around Batavia? Sorry. Not me. I want Buffalo to get better. I want the city revitalized.


If someone wants to spend more than the afternoon at the game it is no problem to get a room in Buffalo or the Falls with the Stadium in Batavia.
Or just have the BUFFALO Bills and possibly BUFFALO Bulls be where it belongs. In Buffalo. And leave Batavia to harness racing, the lowest rung in sports entertainment.

[trapezeus]

better days, the whole point of having the state put money behind the team is because there is this idea that the team helps the area regionally. As such, you should have a stadium that spurs growth. if buffalo as a city is improving as it has the last 5 years, a stadium with 10 games a year, plus a multi purpose building for additional events should be seen positively.

restaurants should look to come out there. and if they are bar pubs, to alleviate traffic, people could watch the 4pm game at a few bars, a few shops could be open around that area. and as those places make money, more things come up as a result of it.

To me it's absolutely a no brainer to have the bills be downtown. most of america is returning to their cities and the cities are accomodating that. buffalo should be part of that. they shouldn't be talking about batavia, a complete waste land. This pedantic conversation that it's a city because it has a mall is ridiculous.

[stuckincincy]

better days, the whole point of having the state put money behind the team is because there is this idea that the team helps the area regionally. As such, you should have a stadium that spurs growth. if buffalo as a city is improving as it has the last 5 years, a stadium with 10 games a year, plus a multi purpose building for additional events should be seen positively.

restaurants should look to come out there. and if they are bar pubs, to alleviate traffic, people could watch the 4pm game at a few bars, a few shops could be open around that area. and as those places make money, more things come up as a result of it.

To me it's absolutely a no brainer to have the bills be downtown. most of america is returning to their cities and the cities are accomodating that. buffalo should be part of that. they shouldn't be talking about batavia, a complete waste land. This pedantic conversation that it's a city because it has a mall is ridiculous.

"Most of America is returning to cities" seems a stretch. Where I live, black and white folks alike are running away from ever-increasing rates of black violence. It's a sad, sad fact, a consequence of the welfare state. And lately, hispanic violence. And it's hard to not think that in a city like Buffalo, so one-party, the "ins" would have a field day of extorting bribes and kickbacks.

If I had the $ to buy a team, the last thing I'd care to do would have to fork over assets to that nest of vipers.

[better days]

Are you saying that FANS don't go to restaurants when they go to the stadium or wouldn't if there was anything to choose from in OP except for Big Tree Inn?

I am saying the VAST MAJORITY of fans would prefer to tailgate even if there were good restaurants in the area.


Really? You have stats on that? The vast majority tailgate? Allow me to be skeptical.

No I don't have stats, but I have been to MANY Bills games. How about you?

And how many of those tailgaters, that hallowed crowd of Bills fans we elevate above the rest, those storied thousands who brave the driving snow to drink cold beer from a solo cup, how many of them would prefer to go to a nice restaurant and have a nice time without a bunch of drunk jackalopes throwing footballs at their heads, pissing on cars, and tossing trash everywhere. In OP, there is not much choice even after 40 years after the Rich was built. In Batavia, same story, different podunk town.

I already said, even if offered a choice of nice restaurants, the majority of fans would prefer to tailgate. And a beautiful Restaurant open 364 days a year could be part of the new Stadium for those that prefer a restaurant over tailgating.

Jesus haploid christ, it's hard enough for Buffalo to present a positive image. But you want people to come to the biggest attraction, or at least one of the biggest attractions, that Buffalo has and have them schlep around Batavia? Sorry. Not me. I want Buffalo to get better. I want the city revitalized.

I have said before putting the Stadium in the City would help the City of Buffalo, but it would not be the best thing for the Bills or Fans of the Bills.


Or just have the BUFFALO Bills and possibly BUFFALO Bulls be where it belongs. In Buffalo. And leave Batavia to harness racing, the lowest rung in sports entertainment.

That would be great if Buffalo had a large enough population to support the Bills, but it doesn't.

For the Bills to remain a viable NFL team, it has to draw on fans from all over Western New York to & including Syracuse in Central NY as well as Canada.

[BertSquirtgum]

Population-wise, Cheektawarsaw is about six times bigger. Batavia's population is 15k. That's no city.

Contrary to what you think you know. Batavia is a city.

http://www.batavianewyork.com/

[gebobs]

Contrary to what you think you know. Batavia is a city.

I was saying that more in a derogatory sense, sort of like this guy was telling the other fellow that his knife wasn't a knife.

http://blogs.trb.com/features/family/parenting/blog/dundee1.jpg

And technicalities aside, I stand by my statement. That's no city. I wouldn't even consider Cheektowarsaw to be a city.

[gebobs]

I am saying the VAST MAJORITY of fans would prefer to tailgate even if there were good restaurants in the area.
I doubt it. Many maybe, but the "vast majority"? I don't even think the vast majority tailgate now.

No I don't have stats, but I have been to MANY Bills games. How about you?
Sure have. Been going since '66.

That would be great if Buffalo had a large enough population to support the Bills, but it doesn't.
What do you mean? They have enough fans to fill the stadium now.


For the Bills to remain a viable NFL team, it has to draw on fans from all over Western New York to & including Syracuse in Central NY as well as Canada.
And Batavia is going to do that better than Buffalo how? Because it's 45 minutes closer to Syracuse? But it's also 45 minutes further from Niagara Falls, St. Catherines, Hamilton, Toronto, Jamestown, and Erie. Yes, I'm aware that most Erie folks are Steelers fans, but that wasn't the case 20 years ago when the Bills could compete regionally with other teams. Heck, I even see Ohio plates at games.

[better days]

I doubt it. Many maybe, but the "vast majority"? I don't even think the vast majority tailgate now.

Sure have. Been going since '66.

What do you mean? They have enough fans to fill the stadium now.


And Batavia is going to do that better than Buffalo how? Because it's 45 minutes closer to Syracuse? But it's also 45 minutes further from Niagara Falls, St. Catherines, Hamilton, Toronto, Jamestown, and Erie. Yes, I'm aware that most Erie folks are Steelers fans, but that wasn't the case 20 years ago when the Bills could compete regionally with other teams. Heck, I even see Ohio plates at games.

The vast majority of fans tailgate now & will in the future as long as it is available.

The majority of fans that fill the Stadium do not live in the City of Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

"Most of America is returning to cities" seems a stretch. Where I live, black and white folks alike are running away from ever-increasing rates of black violence. It's a sad, sad fact, a consequence of the welfare state. And lately, hispanic violence. And it's hard to not think that in a city like Buffalo, so one-party, the "ins" would have a field day of extorting bribes and kickbacks.

If I had the $ to buy a team, the last thing I'd care to do would have to fork over assets to that nest of vipers.

Nice to make this blatantly racist. "only blacks and hispanics are committing crimes." When the facts are violent crimes are down 44% from the late 70's.

Urbanization is up after years of people leaving. There is an idea that years of creating 100's of suburbs creates an impossibly expensive infrastructure issue. Leaving cities in decay isn't the long term goal for most municipalities.

[gebobs]

The vast majority of fans tailgate now & will in the future as long as it is available.
You can repeat it until the cows come home, but once again, I doubt it. At any rate, who cares? If the stadium is in Buffalo, they can still tailgate. You seem to want to to broaden the appeal on one hand and then limit it on the other to just tailgaters.


The majority of fans that fill the Stadium do not live in the City of Buffalo.
So what? The majority of the fans live closer to Buffalo than Batavia. If you want to appeal to a region by building the stadium in Batavia, you're going to have to build your case. How is building in Batavia going to broaden the regional appeal? As far as I can tell, this is just to appeal to Syracuse and Rochester at the expense of the Canadian and Souther Tier fan bases.

[better days]

You can repeat it until the cows come home, but once again, I doubt it. At any rate, who cares? If the stadium is in Buffalo, they can still tailgate. You seem to want to to broaden the appeal on one hand and then limit it on the other to just tailgaters.


So what? The majority of the fans live closer to Buffalo than Batavia. If you want to appeal to a region by building the stadium in Batavia, you're going to have to build your case. How is building in Batavia going to broaden the regional appeal? As far as I can tell, this is just to appeal to Syracuse and Rochester at the expense of the Canadian and Souther Tier fan bases.

I doubt it would take Canadians any longer to get to Batavia than it does to Orchard Park.

I don't have stats, but I have never heard Russ say anything about the Southern tier so I think MANY more Bills fans are located from Rochester to Syracuse than in the Southern tier.

As far as tailgating goes, it does not matter what you think. I think few people would be jazzed about the idea of spending more money at a restaurant rather than tailgating myself.

[gebobs]

I doubt it would take Canadians any longer to get to Batavia than it does to Orchard Park.
Who's talking about OP? We're talking about a new stadium. Barring traffic and bridges, it takes 2 hours to get from Hamilton to Batavia, 1:15 to Buffalo, 1:30 to OP.

For Syracuse, those times are 1:45, 2:15, 2:25. Big whoop.


I don't have stats, but I have never heard Russ say anything about the Southern tier so I think MANY more Bills fans are located from Rochester to Syracuse than in the Southern tier.
I said "at the expense of the Canadian and Southern Tier fan bases". What's so great about Syracuse? Hamilton is twice the size and half as far.


As far as tailgating goes, it does not matter what you think. I think few people would be jazzed about the idea of spending more money at a restaurant rather than tailgating myself.
Let's just say it's your opinion that "few people" would disagree with you ok?

Why do you insist only on catering to people that share your idea of the perfect Bills game? If you want to broaden the appeal to the region, why not broaden it to include those people that don't mind spending money at a restaurant instead of swilling beer outside? What about the people that would be so willing to invest the time to travel hundreds of miles to see the game that would just as soon not spend several hours out in the elements? Why are you so intent on limiting the experience to just those folks that are like minded with you?

[BertSquirtgum]

The western new york buffalo bills. I like it. I don't care where they move as long as they remain in western new york.

[WagonCircler]

The more I read in this thread, the more I like the Outer Harbor.

Close to Downton (seriously, who's kidding who here? It IS Downtown) for hotels and restaurants? check.

Plenty of room for parking and tailgating? check.

Added benefit of getting some much needed infrastructure done that benefits taxpayers year round? check.

Doesn't push anyone out, no need to buy up/raze residences or businesses.

I really fail to see much of a downside. People who want to tailgate can tailgate. People who want to stay overnight can stay overnight.

I think it would even be reasonably easy to extend the Metro Rail or build a pedestrian bridge from the current terminus.

If there's one part of Buffalo that's growing, it's the harbor. This would add some momentum to that.

But like I've said in pretty much every post, I'm cool with anything within 45 miles of Downtown. Because it means the Bills will be here for pretty much the rest of my life.

[trapezeus]

i think the pond hockey tourney's etc during the weekend of a home bills game would put a lot of bodies downtown. There is just a lot of growth aside from the bills if done downtown. anywhere else (aside from niagara falls), the benefits are very limited and only in the interests of the owners of the bills. that's not a fair deal for tax payers.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What's going on in Orchard Park? What was going on there 40 years ago?

And let's be frankly honest here, nothing is going on in downtown Buffalo either.

Again why are we talking about something done 40 years ago I don't know why they built it there but it is 10 minutes from buffalo at least.

Buffalo is a freaking metropolis compared to cow town batavia lets be real

Sorry those of you from batavia. It is what it is. I like batavia actually but there is zero chance they would build the stadium there. Who would fund it?

Can this thread be closed already?

[Mouldsie]

I think it is a STUPID idea for the Bills & UB to share practice facilities.

They would be stepping on each others toes.

Name me one NFL team & university that do that.


Why?

How?

There are none, but there are teams that practice in different areas than their stadium FWIW

[WagonCircler]

Why?

How?

There are none, but there are teams that practice in different areas than their stadium FWIW

The Dallas Cowboys practice and have their offices in Valley Ranch and play in Arlington, 20 miles away.

UB is lower on my list than most, but there's no reason it couldn't work. But I really don't see Amherst residents or local gov't being crazy about the idea.

Plus, Big Blue Water Tower is about the only genuine traffic spot in WNY. Seems like asking for trouble on game day.

[better days]

Why?

How?

There are none, but there are teams that practice in different areas than their stadium FWIW

It would not work to have College players & Professionals sharing the same facility because as I said they would be stepping on each others toes.

Getting in each others way.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It would not work to have College players & Professionals sharing the same facility because as I said they would be stepping on each others toes.

Getting in each others way.

If they designed the facilities from the ground up to host both teams they would not be in each other's way.

The real reason it won't happen is that it would invite a host of ncaa violations, so the Bulls wouldn't risk it.

[better days]

If they designed the facilities from the ground up to host both teams they would not be in each other's way.

The real reason it won't happen is that it would invite a host of ncaa violations, so the Bulls wouldn't risk it.

That is a good point about the NCAA.

[DraftBoy]

They could build a new Stadium at the site of the current one as other Cities have done.

Noise in Lancaster? even if true which I doubt, it is one day a week 10-12 weeks a year & the thruway has been there forever.

And I doubt a NFL Stadium would make more noise than the Speedway did.

Upgrading the roads in the outer harbor would be more expensive than the locations I named.

I have family in Lancaster that ***** constantly about the noise and traffic. It's true.

[DraftBoy]

Actually, It is a city. It's obvious you probably went to the home depot, bed, bath, and beyond or the "casino" by the thruway on the west side of Batavia and never traveled into the city. Do you know there is a big mall in the middle of the city? Did you know it has a race track on the east side of the city? If anything, it would be more comparable to Cheektowaga.

If you claim to being a city is a Home Dept, Bed Bath & Beyond and a Casino then I think you need to revisit your claim.

Is Batavia providing any essential services for their community or is that all County based? That's where you start in knowing if you have a real city or if you're just a random town.

[DraftBoy]

IMO, the stadium should be located where the most people from WNY & Canada can get to it most easily.

I agree it would help the City of Buffalo to put it downtown, but I question if that is best for the team & fans of the team.

No offense but the last thing the Bills should be concerned about is what is best for the fans. This fan base has proved they will show up no matter what why would you bend over backwards for that?

[DraftBoy]

For the record, I don't live in Buffalo and will never live there again so I don't have a ton of care about where the new stadium goes but Wagon's option of the Outer Harbor sounds like by far the best option to me.

[better days]

I have family in Lancaster that ***** constantly about the noise and traffic. It's true.

Then they should MOVE. I would bet they moved there after the Thruway was already in place.

[DraftBoy]

Then they should MOVE. I would bet they moved there after the Thruway was already in place.

They have looked, not something that is feasible.

I don't recall when the thruway went in but they've been in Lancaster for over 20 years.

[stuckincincy]

For the record, I don't live in Buffalo and will never live there again so I don't have a ton of care about where the new stadium goes but Wagon's option of the Outer Harbor sounds like by far the best option to me.

There are some environmental problems - not insurmountable. There may be significant geologic problems.

[DraftBoy]

There are some environmental problems - not insurmountable. There may be significant geologic problems.

That would certainly present a large barrier. Happened here in Atlanta when looking at different sites for the new Falcons stadium. They had a nice area picked out where an old GM plant sits abandoned. The environmental evaluation came up with a million and one red flags though.

[justasportsfan]

There are some environmental problems - not insurmountable. There may be significant geologic problems.

There would be increased welcome environmental problems if moved to Niagara area. They're called canadians :D

[BertSquirtgum]

If you claim to being a city is a Home Dept, Bed Bath & Beyond and a Casino then I think you need to revisit your claim.

Is Batavia providing any essential services for their community or is that all County based? That's where you start in knowing if you have a real city or if you're just a random town.

Not even worth answering.

[stuckincincy]

That would certainly present a large barrier. Happened here in Atlanta when looking at different sites for the new Falcons stadium. They had a nice area picked out where an old GM plant sits abandoned. The environmental evaluation came up with a million and one red flags though.

Here's an interesting book reference:

Against the Grain - The History of Buffalo's First Ward, by Timothy Bohen(e) (Bohene Books LLC, 2012, ISBN 978-0-615-62052-7)

Bohen wrote a first-class historical narrative, packed with references. Contained within is numerous references about the geology of the waterfront.

[WagonCircler]

Here's an interesting book reference:

Against the Grain - The History of Buffalo's First Ward, by Timothy Bohen(e) (Bohene Books LLC, 2012, ISBN 978-0-615-62052-7)

Bohen wrote a first-class historical narrative, packed with references. Contained within is numerous references about the geology of the waterfront.

For those of us without ready access to that book, what's the upshot? Is he saying that it's unsafe to build a stadium on the lakeshore?

Because Cleveland's football stadium is on the exact same shore. It's hard to believe that the geology changes that much in 150 miles.

[stuckincincy]

For those of us without ready access to that book, what's the upshot? Is he saying that it's unsafe to build a stadium on the lakeshore?

Because Cleveland's football stadium is on the exact same shore. It's hard to believe that the geology changes that much in 150 miles.

No. It's an interesting, historical look at Buffalo's First Ward and the Waterfront. Contained in the text is information about how the land use changed - the re-routing of waterways, build-up and removal of land and the like. I mentioned it as an aside to folks who are interested in Buffalo history.

[WagonCircler]

No. It's an interesting, historical look at Buffalo's First Ward and the Waterfront. Contained in the text is information about how the land use changed - the re-routing of waterways, build-up and removal of land and the like. I mentioned it as an aside to folks who are interested in Buffalo history.

I would like that. Is it on Amazon?

One of my grandfathers was a "scooper" in the grain elevators.