"The Buffalo Bills would Love to trade up to #1 for J.Clowney"-Adam Scheftner

[Raptor]

@Merk256: Adam Schefter on the Mike Lupica show #ESPNRadio: The #Buffalo #Bills would Love to go to #1 for J.Clowney


This story seams to be gaining a little more steam week by week

[YardRat]

Hope he can play RT too.

[better days]

IMO, it would be STUPID to give up the Bills first pick next year which is what it would take to move up to #1.

If EJ does not pan out, which many people believe will be the case, the Bills will need that first rnd pick next year to draft EJ's replacement.

[billsfanryan]

Weren't there rumors several weeks ago saying we had already got in touch with Houston about the first pick?

I am wondering if this is a smokescreen at all. Remember when we forced Denver to trade up for Tebow and then Nix laughed? I wonder if Whaley is trying to get some pieces of this draft to fall into place so he can make another move.

[DraftBoy]

No shock here, Bills need a pass rusher at DE opposite Mario to fit the new scheme.

[Skooby]

Weren't there rumors several weeks ago saying we had already got in touch with Houston about the first pick?

I am wondering if this is a smokescreen at all. Remember when we forced Denver to trade up for Tebow and then Nix laughed? I wonder if Whaley is trying to get some pieces of this draft to fall into place so he can make another move.

Yeah, since then Denver has been to the playoffs every year & the Super Bowl last season. Nix laughing made it all so real & important.

[The Zone Ranger]

I think we should just continue to draft denelsey type de's so we can be in position to draft our franchise qb. Were only five Drats away from getting our man.

[coastal]

No shock here, Bills need a pass rusher at DE opposite Mario to fit the new scheme.
More shifting personnel because of a new scheme?

Generating a pass rush didn't seem to be a problem last year so let's give up assets in this draft and future drafts to fix a "problem" that we as an organization are creating.

the only player we should be trading up to get is Greg Robinson.

he fills a huge deficit on the roster and plays to our offensive strength... running the ball

jadaveon Clowney = Fool's Gold Redux

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am all for this. Make a splash. Be a relevant franchise for once.

Clowney is an absolute BEAST!!!!

Yes we need a right tackle but can't a decent, solid run blocking tackle, be had later on?

[TacklingDummy]

IMO, it would be STUPID to give up the Bills first pick next year which is what it would take to move up to #1.

If EJ does not pan out, which many people believe will be the case, the Bills will need that first rnd pick next year to draft EJ's replacement.

Agreed.

You don't give up next years 1st when Winston, Mariota, Petty, and Hundley will be coming out.

[pmoon6]

Yeah, since then Denver has been to the playoffs every year & the Super Bowl last season. Nix laughing made it all so real & important.So what? They went out and bought Peyton Manning, which is the reason they have been successful.

One has nothing to do with the other, fool.

Oh and **** Denver.

[nolimit]

This rumor does not seem to be fading....just keeps getting stronger....there may be something to this...

[Yasgur's Farm]

He (Scheftner) is just reacting to Whaley's comment late last week... IMO smokescreen.

[DraftBoy]

More shifting personnel because of a new scheme?

Generating a pass rush didn't seem to be a problem last year so let's give up assets in this draft and future drafts to fix a "problem" that we as an organization are creating.

the only player we should be trading up to get is Greg Robinson.

he fills a huge deficit on the roster and plays to our offensive strength... running the ball

jadaveon Clowney = Fool's Gold Redux

Umm…yes that's what always happens.

Last year you asked 3-4 OLB's to stand up and rush, now you're asking 43 DE's to put a hand down and rush the passer. Outside of Mario nobody else on the roster has shown the ability to go that from a three point stance. That's a big problem.

You can't just change a scheme and assume everything will remain the same. We need different style of players to fit the new scheme.

This wasn't my idea, just the reality of the decisions the organization has made.

I never would of switched the scheme, I never would of signed Spikes, and I never would of let Byrd go. It is what it is.

[Mr. Pink]

From what I've read/seen Houston covets one of four guys at the top of the draft. They wouldn't mind trading down but going all the way down to 9 would obviously make them miss one of the four. In other words, never gonna happen.

[DraftBoy]

I am all for this. Make a splash. Be a relevant franchise for once.

Clowney is an absolute BEAST!!!!

Yes we need a right tackle but can't a decent, solid run blocking tackle, be had later on?

Not the caliber of Matthews or Robinson.

[DraftBoy]

Agreed.

You don't give up next years 1st when Winston, Mariota, Petty, and Hundley will be coming out.

Winston has massive flaws with his elongated release, Mariota has injury concerns and he comes from a system, Petty is still extremely raw, and Hundley (who I like the most) is among the most inconsistent passers week to week you'll ever see (EJ was almost the exact same way).

You don't look to next year and say we can't do this or that because player A or B may or may not be available.

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From what I've read/seen Houston covets one of four guys at the top of the draft. They wouldn't mind trading down but going all the way down to 9 would obviously make them miss one of the four. In other words, never gonna happen.

That's assuming all 8 teams above them have the same top 4 which you know isn't the case.

[ServoBillieves]

16856 and mirrors

[X-Era]

He (Scheftner) is just reacting to Whaley's comment late last week... IMO smokescreen.I think so too. I think the smokescreen is meant to have Clowney go very early to push Watkins down. I think the Bills covet Watkins actually and would make a move to the top 5 for him.

[Dr. Lecter]

More shifting personnel because of a new scheme?

Generating a pass rush didn't seem to be a problem last year so let's give up assets in this draft and future drafts to fix a "problem" that we as an organization are creating.

the only player we should be trading up to get is Greg Robinson.

he fills a huge deficit on the roster and plays to our offensive strength... running the ball

jadaveon Clowney = Fool's Gold Redux

A lot of that is great, but I would not call Clowney Fool's Gold.

And if they trade up, it should be for Watkins. Not a damn RT

[better days]

Winston has massive flaws with his elongated release, Mariota has injury concerns and he comes from a system, Petty is still extremely raw, and Hundley (who I like the most) is among the most inconsistent passers week to week you'll ever see (EJ was almost the exact same way).

You don't look to next year and say we can't do this or that because player A or B may or may not be available.

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That's assuming all 8 teams above them have the same top 4 which you know isn't the case.

So, what QB's do you think in this draft have more potential than the QB's in next years draft?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I don't understand the point of a smoke screen for Clowney. Any team that wants Clowney already know they would have to trade up to get him.

If anything, I would say it's a smokescreen by the Texans to get more trade offers.

[CoolBreeze]

We can't be afraid to trade our first next year. So what if EJ tanks? Last year all I heard about was how great this years QB class was going to be. Johnny football this, Bridgewater that. Now a year later both have queston marks. There is no such thing as a sure thing in the NFL. It would suck if EJ didn't pan out and we had no first, sure. But it's a gamble, a big gamble and in a year alot can happen. Through injury and play there's always a chance that all of next years QB's will fall in value.

IMO if the front office feels Clowney, Robinson, or Watkins is the real deal. You pull the trigger.

[DraftBoy]

A lot of that is great, but I would not call Clowney Fool's Gold.

And if they trade up, it should be for Watkins. Not a damn RT

Why trade up for Watkins in arguably the deepest WR class in the last decade?

[DraftBoy]

So, what QB's do you think in this draft have more potential than the QB's in next years draft?

I wouldn't even know where to start. There is no way to actually answer this question. All of the QB's previously mentioned have lots of flaws, some may get them corrected this offseason some may not. We won't know till we see them and see their development.

[scartown]

Smokescreen

[BuffaloRedleg]

No shock here, Bills need a pass rusher at DE opposite Mario to fit the new scheme.

Moving up to #1 wouldn't be a shock? I think Bills fans heads would explode.

[THRILLHO]

I think people are reading too much into this. Who wouldn't love to trade to #1 to draft Clowney? This statement could be said with any team in place of ours.

[DraftBoy]

Moving up to #1 wouldn't be a shock? I think Bills fans heads would explode.

Not really, Clowney makes sense because the Bills lack an athletic pass rusher who can play with his hand down. The best (by far) is Clowney and to get him you're going to have to get to #1.

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I think people are reading too much into this. Who wouldn't love to trade to #1 to draft Clowney? This statement could be said with any team in place of ours.

True, but Schefter typically (key word) doesn't just tweet out lines that could apply to every team.

[sudzy]

If EJ does not pan out, which many people believe will be the case, the Bills will need that first rnd pick next year to draft EJ's replacement.

The smartest thing you have said in weeks. I knew you'd come over to the dark side eventually.

[Night Train]

Not buying it.

Trying to trigger others to jump ahead and push good players down to #9.

[DraftBoy]

The smartest thing you have said in weeks. I knew you'd come over to the dark side eventually.

Does the "EJ already blows" crowd really think this is going to happen? Do you know that no team since 2000 who has drafted a bust 1st Round QB has ever taken one only two drafts later?

In other words it isn't happening.

[coastal]

A lot of that is great, but I would not call Clowney Fool's Gold.

And if they trade up, it should be for Watkins. Not a damn RT
Who is the strength of this team?

The two headed monster of fjax and cj spiller.

the book on Robinson is he's an actual beast in run blocking. Hell... it can be argued that Auburn ran their way to the National Championship behind him.

as far as Clowney being Fool's Gold... have you read the reports about his lack of production this year and perhaps a questionable heart for the game?

kinda sounds familiar... doncha think?

And I like Watkins too.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The smartest thing you have said in weeks. I knew you'd come over to the dark side eventually.He sn't changed his position at all... It's what we've all been saying.

What's been so incredibly frustrating is that many on "the dark side" want to turn us into (pardon the Saburzfanism) EJ "nut huggers".

Most of us simply feel that he's shown enough that he should be given 2014 season before executing the judgment of what "the dark siders" claim they already know.

[DraftBoy]

Who is the strength of this team?

The two headed monster of fjax and cj spiller.

the book on Robinson is he's an actual beast in run blocking. Hell... it can be argued that Auburn ran their way to the National Championship behind him.

as far as Clowney being Fool's Gold... have you read the reports about his lack of production this year and perhaps a questionable heart for the game?

kinda sounds familiar... doncha think?

And I like Watkins too.

Do you have any actual statistic to backup the Robinson claim above? Auburn ran a ton of inside trap and zone play with some outside runs mixed in but they were an inside rushing team.

[The Jokeman]

I am all for this. Make a splash. Be a relevant franchise for once.

Clowney is an absolute BEAST!!!!

Yes we need a right tackle but can't a decent, solid run blocking tackle, be had later on?

It can be had later on however you're trading all your later on in an effort to get Clowney. Now if the Bills had Byrd and Erik Pears playing like in 2012 would I swing for the fences for Clowney? Sure but now with the state of the franchise now. As to me right now we need a RT, TE and some depth along the D-line to take that next step. We saw last year having a great pass rush alone isn't going to make us a playoff contender alone we need more.

[SquishDaFish]

He sn't changed his position at all... It's what we've all been saying.

What's been so incredibly frustrating is that many on "the dark side" want to turn us into (pardon the Saburzfanism) EJ "nut huggers".

Most of us simply feel that he's shown enough that he should be given 2014 season before executing the judgment of what "the dark siders" claim they already know.

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!!!!! EXACTLY

[sudzy]

Does the "EJ already blows" crowd really think this is going to happen? Do you know that no team since 2000 who has drafted a bust 1st Round QB has ever taken one only two drafts later?

In other words it isn't happening.


Funny you mention 2000, because that year has some importance in Bills history. Oh yeah, it was the last time the Bills seen the playoffs. Am I suppose to just believe that, EJ will be the time, that the Bills finally prove they are smarter then the rest of the NFL. Well, his 1st season didn't help much. But, I do know one thing, your last sentence holds true to the Bills chances of making the playoffs until they find a good QB.
In other words it isn't happening.

[Fixxxer]

I think we don't trade up and the player they're targeting is Evans. They will possibly move up in the second if there's a RT they like.

[DraftBoy]

Funny you mention 2000, because that year has some importance in Bills history. Oh yeah, it was the last time the Bills seen the playoffs. Am I suppose to just believe that, EJ will be the time, that the Bills finally prove they are smarter then the rest of the NFL. Well, his 1st season didn't help much. But, I do know one thing, your last sentence holds true to the Bills chances of making the playoffs until they find a good QB.

I don't disagree…did you expect a different response?

[The Jokeman]

Why trade up for Watkins in arguably the deepest WR class in the last decade?

Cuz most casual fans feel that the draft is finished after Round 1. That said I wouldn't call Tom a casual fan.

[Jan Reimers]

I'm probably in the tiniest minority since the voters for the presidential candidacy of Pat Paulsen, but I think Clowney might be a monumental bust.

[coastal]

Do you have any actual statistic to backup the Robinson claim above? Auburn ran a ton of inside trap and zone play with some outside runs mixed in but they were an inside rushing team.
1st in total rushing yards and rushing yards/game and 4th overall in yards/attempt.

[DraftBoy]

1st in total rushing yards and rushing yards/game and 4th overall in yards/attempt.

Yea I meant things that were actually relevant to your point…?

You know like the fact that Auburn was one of only three AQ schools to run outside the tackle on at least 50% of their run snaps and that on those snaps they led all schools in total rushing yards with 2,887 and finished second with 8.5 ypc. Not to mention a 6.3 ypc before contact which speaks to sealing the edge.

What I don't know (probably because I haven't looked) is what the percentage of runs left v. right was to the outside. That would be interesting.

[coastal]

Yea I meant things that were actually relevant to your point…?

You know like the fact that Auburn was one of only three AQ schools to run outside the tackle on at least 50% of their run snaps and that on those snaps they led all schools in total rushing yards with 2,887 and finished second with 8.5 ypc. Not to mention a 6.3 ypc before contact which speaks to sealing the edge.

What I don't know (probably because I haven't looked) is what the percentage of runs left v. right was to the outside. That would be interesting.it would be interesting to see and would love to see the exact stats as well like we often get for NFL production measures.

in lieu of those... I feel you're quibbling here. The book on him is simple... powerful, aggressive kid who needs some polishing in the pass game, but is reported as being dominant in run blocking (team stats support that). Considering we desperately need a RT and out strength as a team is in the backfield... this guy would be a no-brainer pick.

need... fit... talent level... what's not to like?

[DraftBoy]

it would be interesting to see and would love to see the exact stats as well like we often get for NFL production measures.

in lieu of those... I feel you're quibbling here. The book on him is simple... powerful, aggressive kid who needs some polishing in the pass game, but is reported as being dominant in run blocking (team stats support that). Considering we desperately need a RT and out strength as a team is in the backfield... this guy would be a no-brainer pick.

need... fit... talent level... what's not to like?

I'm simply attempting to provide context over blanket statements.

What's not to like? His technique is very raw, he tends to get over extended against speed rushers, his knee bend is inconsistent, and he still has no idea what to do with his hands when blocking for run or pass. His power and athleticism are unmatched in this class but he's got big time technique issues that should worry you.

You also have to keep in mind a lot of Auburn scheme was quick hitting and relied on deception. More often than not the DE he went up against had to play the read and not just attack downhill. In the NFL that changes.

He's got a lot to like and if he's there at 9 I'm totally sold, however there are some very worrisome attributes as well that your glossing over.

[SpikedLemonade]

If all it cost us to trade up to get Robinson was our 1st and 2nd this year, sign me up.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'm probably in the tiniest minority since the voters for the presidential candidacy of Pat Paulsen, but I think Clowney might be a monumental bust.Love the Pat Paulsen reference.

[coastal]

I'm simply attempting to provide context over blanket statements.

What's not to like? His technique is very raw, he tends to get over extended against speed rushers, his knee bend is inconsistent, and he still has no idea what to do with his hands when blocking for run or pass. His power and athleticism are unmatched in this class but he's got big time technique issues that should worry you.

You also have to keep in mind a lot of Auburn scheme was quick hitting and relied on deception. More often than not the DE he went up against had to play the read and not just attack downhill. In the NFL that changes.

He's got a lot to like and if he's there at 9 I'm totally sold, however there are some very worrisome attributes as well that your glossing over.you're sold at 9 but not in a trade up scenario?

btw... I trust Marrone to polish this kid.

[DraftBoy]

you're sold at 9 but not in a trade up scenario?

btw... I trust Marrone to polish this kid.

I'm not sold on any trade up scenario, do you know how much it would pain me to move up for any player?

I'd trust Marrone more if he was the OL coach and not the HC. He's not going to be doing a ton of one on one work with Robinson.

[cookie G]

More shifting personnel because of a new scheme?

Generating a pass rush didn't seem to be a problem last year so let's give up assets in this draft and future drafts to fix a "problem" that we as an organization are creating.

the only player we should be trading up to get is Greg Robinson.

he fills a huge deficit on the roster and plays to our offensive strength... running the ball

jadaveon Clowney = Fool's Gold Redux


I'll think out loud for a bit. So as usual, I'll post a bunch of disjointed thoughts. 2 views of which you are diametrically opposed could lead to the same result.

1. I agree...the "change the scheme and rebuild to fit the scheme" nonsense needs to be stopped and is probably the biggest impediment to this team making the playoffs for the past 15 years. It isn't a coincidence that the playoff drought began just as this continuous scheme change stuff came about. Not only in terms of its failure to work for the most part, but the opportunity cost of losing some damn good players due to a flawed theory.


BTW, Pete Carroll's been running the same scheme since the 70's and built the NFL's top defense with a bunch of mid to low round picks. They may be the most "coached up" defense in recent memory. They play with discipline, they play with speed, they play together.

People saying "we need to be like the Seahawks should look at what they've done. It isn't what we've done.


2. On the other hand...one of your theories comes into play, the "build to your strength" theory. This is something you've argued in the past, in other areas. That might be the way Whaley is thinking, especially after watching him drool when talking about a DL with Clowney, Dareus, Kyle and Mario.

As to Clowney himself, his side to side move and ability to walk around an OL cleanly is...in a word...breathtaking. When I've seen him, he's not necessarily beating someone around the edge all the time..as he is beating them with one quick side step. He can do it on a run play as well as a pass rush.

He'd be a kick ass bullfighter if he wanted to be.

On the other hand..when that move doesn't work, there isn't much else there. Not from what I've seen. (I'm going off mostly Michigan 2012, Missouri and Tenn in 2013).

When he goes into an OT on a pass rush, and the OT is squared on him..the ball game is usually over. I don't usually see a 2nd, much less a 3rd move. I'm guessing that's one of the reasons his production has fallen to 3 sacks last season. Teams worked on negating his speed rush.

With his ability to throw a lineman off balance with his quickness..he could be doing so much more. He doesn't even have to become a student of the game...just a student of the position. Once he learns to use a lineman's own weight against him and employ leverage on an off balance body, he could be great. In a way, he's already halfway there...and physically...he has what few others have.

The $20 million question is...will he? Anyone's guess. I'm not keen on how I've heard him talk leading up to the draft.

Meh..this might be Whaley's Bill Polian moment-his dream of a Bisquit II trade.

If I'm going to throw caution to the wind and go with a chance to take the franchise to the next level, I'd just as soon take Johnny Football at 9. If it doesn't work out, at least I'll have a 2nd round pick and next year's first to fall back on.

[coastal]

I'll think out loud for a bit. So as usual, I'll post a bunch of disjointed thoughts. 2 views of which you are diametrically opposed could lead to the same result.

1. I agree...the "change the scheme and rebuild to fit the scheme" nonsense needs to be stopped and is probably the biggest impediment to this team making the playoffs for the past 15 years. It isn't a coincidence that the playoff drought began just as this continuous scheme change stuff came about. Not only in terms of its failure to work for the most part, but the opportunity cost of losing some damn good players due to a flawed theory.


BTW, Pete Carroll's been running the same scheme since the 70's and built the NFL's top defense with a bunch of mid to low round picks. They may be the most "coached up" defense in recent memory. They play with discipline, they play with speed, they play together.

People saying "we need to be like the Seahawks should look at what they've done. It isn't what we've done.


2. On the other hand...one of your theories comes into play, the "build to your strength" theory. This is something you've argued in the past, in other areas. That might be the way Whaley is thinking, especially after watching him drool when talking about a DL with Clowney, Dareus, Kyle and Mario.

As to Clowney himself, his side to side move and ability to walk around an OL cleanly is...in a word...breathtaking. When I've seen him, he's not necessarily beating someone around the edge all the time..as he is beating them with one quick side step. He can do it on a run play as well as a pass rush.

He'd be a kick ass bullfighter if he wanted to be.

On the other hand..when that move doesn't work, there isn't much else there. Not from what I've seen. (I'm going off mostly Michigan 2012, Missouri and Tenn in 2013).

When he goes into an OT on a pass rush, and the OT is squared on him..the ball game is usually over. I don't usually see a 2nd, much less a 3rd move. I'm guessing that's one of the reasons his production has fallen to 3 sacks last season. Teams worked on negating his speed rush.

With his ability to throw a lineman off balance with his quickness..he could be doing so much more. He doesn't even have to become a student of the game...just a student of the position. Once he learns to use a lineman's own weight against him and employ leverage on an off balance body, he could be great. In a way, he's already halfway there...and physically...he has what few others have.

The $20 million question is...will he? Anyone's guess. I'm not keen on how I've heard him talk leading up to the draft.

Meh..this might be Whaley's Bill Polian moment-his dream of a Bisquit II trade.

If I'm going to throw caution to the wind and go with a chance to take the franchise to the next level, I'd just as soon take Johnny Football at 9. If it doesn't work out, at least I'll have a 2nd round pick and next year's first to fall back on.
Well I suppose you warned us about being disjointed so I guess I can't criticize u for being all over the board.

that being said.. I'd be pumped I guess about the possibilities drafting someone like Clowney brings to the table, but didn't we just get 10 sacks worth of production out of Jerry Hughes.

i just don't see how Clowney changes the outcome for us overall.

As far as building to a strength... Fjax and CJ can produce a lot more if given a couple of more capable blockers in front of them. Doing so might help to hide one of our weaknesses (QB) and give that position time to develop.

i guess all in all... I don't see the "need" to make a big splash for the sake of making one. I think Whaley should concentrate on making good solid football decisions. It's a slower way of achieving success but long term lends itself to greater organizational stability and success. I think that has largely been the Steeler's model for decades.

And if that need is too overwhelming.. I agree with u on the Johnny Football choice.

i think they're taking the whole "EJ is the guy" thing too far.

[Woodman]

I think so too. I think the smokescreen is meant to have Clowney go very early to push Watkins down. I think the Bills covet Watkins actually and would make a move to the top 5 for him.

Watkins would be an awesome pick.

How high do you go to get him is the question.

Watkins, Williams and Woods now there's 3 WR's that would be tough to handle.

Throw Goodwin in when you go 4.

[GingerP]

This is obviously coming from the Texans to build interest. They would love to trade out, because Clowney isn't a fit for their 3-4, but they don't want to trade that far down. For the Bills to entice that kind of trade up would take more than 2 firsts, it would be a package to blow them away. Nobody wants to trade down outside the top 6-8.

[Dr. Lecter]

Who is the strength of this team?

The two headed monster of fjax and cj spiller.

the book on Robinson is he's an actual beast in run blocking. Hell... it can be argued that Auburn ran their way to the National Championship behind him.

as far as Clowney being Fool's Gold... have you read the reports about his lack of production this year and perhaps a questionable heart for the game?

kinda sounds familiar... doncha think?

And I like Watkins too.

The strength of the team was the pass rush, not to take anything away from CJ and Jackson. Who knows if it will be this year.

I have read the reports. I have also watched him play. You and both know the kind of crap that is thrown out about players. We also remember how "lazy" Bruce was.

AS for Williams, at least give him credit for last year. He sure as hell was not lazy then

As for Watkins, this team is sorely lacking a game changer in the passing game. I love Stevie Johnson. But he is not the kind of player that changes the course of a game.

Watkins is. His play making ability has not been seen on this team since when? Maybe the Moulds/Price combo?

What would an actual legitimate threat to make plays do to help Manuel and to eventually help Spiller and Jackson make plays in the running game as defense respect what Watkins can do?

[Dr. Lecter]

Why trade up for Watkins in arguably the deepest WR class in the last decade?
It is deep. Watkins is special. That is why.

And even with that, I would not move up a ton. But they sorely need play makers on offense in the passing game

[THRILLHO]

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True, but Schefter typically (key word) doesn't just tweet out lines that could apply to every team.

Yeah, I get that. But at the same time, of course we would love to trade up to #1. I can't help but wonder if that means we called them and offered something that wouldn't do the trick. Like our first and second. Because of course we'd love to do that. Obviously we are all talking about rhetoric and no one really knows what is going on. I don't see us trading up.

[better days]

I wouldn't even know where to start. There is no way to actually answer this question. All of the QB's previously mentioned have lots of flaws, some may get them corrected this offseason some may not. We won't know till we see them and see their development.

Well, with the flaws you see today, what QB in this years class do you think will be better than next years crop?

You pointed out flaws in next years group, well guess what, this years group also has flaws.

[TacklingDummy]

I'm probably in the tiniest minority since the voters for the presidential candidacy of Pat Paulsen, but I think Clowney might be a monumental bust.

Great you just sealed it. The Bills will be trading up for Clowney.

[Mike]

So what? They went out and bought Peyton Manning, which is the reason they have been successful.

One has nothing to do with the other, fool.

Oh and **** Denver.
Lol
Some people will never get it.

The idea was that Bills FO pulled a fast one over the broncos and are thus a smarter organization which is asinine sinse the Broncos made it to SB last year.

Now, your using Payton Manning as an 'excuse' as to why Denver is good- a back handed way of taking away credit which is equally asinine.

This is what Good Organizations do. They acquire talent via Draft & FA and do everything in their power to win. For Denver Signing Manning in FA worked so well that Denver fielded the Best offense in NFL history.

Calling the Denver organization stupid is thus extremely ******ed.

[Saratoga Slim]

I don't understand the point of a smoke screen for Clowney. Any team that wants Clowney already know they would have to trade up to get him.

If anything, I would say it's a smokescreen by the Texans to get more trade offers.


Exactly.

[Oaf]

Total smokescreen.

[Skooby]

Don't count on it.

[X-Era]

The last 3 years we have held a pre-draft visit with the guy we ended up taking in the 1st round. Who's the one guy we didn't bring in for a visit? Jadaveon Clowney.

The Bills do lot's of homework on the guys they want. But this year they don't have him in to visit and will move to #1 to draft him? No. Doesn't fit the Bills methods at all.

Now Watkins is another matter. They visited with him and they love him.

If you claim you're moving to #1 for Clowney, you keep a team in striking distance who covets Watkins from outbidding you for the #1 pick. They think they're able to wait for Watkins to drop to them and you get Watkins. Oakland is a team willing to spend big in trades for guys they want. Detroit supposedly loves Watkins. If the Bills are afraid of Detroit moving in front of us for him the Bills could put out smokescreens to make the teams think they'll move for someone else.

From LaCandouchebag:

"Evans is seen by several teams as his equal and in some cases, would be the pick in the event of a virtual tie based on his superior height. In fact, if I was doing a mock right now, I’d have Evans to Tampa Bay at seven, and I would probably put Watkins to Buffalo at nine or Detroit at 10. And if he does in fact get out of the top five, of any team, I could see Detroit possibly moving up a few spots to land him (the Lions have been exhaustive in their pre-draft analysis of Watkins)."

http://sidelionreport.com/2014/04/25/drafting-sammy-watkins-may-require-significant-trade-detroit-lions/

Cleveland may be after Watkins at 4:

http://fansided.com/2014/04/20/nfl-draft-rumors-cleveland-browns-sammy-watkins-teddy-bridgewater-carlos-hyde/#!F9JJb

I think it may take a move to #2 for Watkins personally. The Rams are supposedly willing to move down.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/30/rams-are-interested-in-trading-out-of-no-2-pick/

And again, if the Bills want Watkins they could try to make it seem like they're after Clowney so that they don't have to move to the #1 spot to get Watkins.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And again, if the Bills want Watkins they could try to make it seem like they're after Clowney so that they don't have to move to the #1 spot to get Watkins.

That makes more sense, but I personally wouldn't want to move to #1 for Watkins. The kid seems like a great prospect. But even if we are talking about the bare minimum of draft compensation - two firsts and a second - to move up to get him, that means the Bills would have used two firsts, two seconds, two thirds, and a sixth on the same position in four years. I think a QB makes the wideouts and not the other way around.

[trapezeus]

i really hope we aren't moving up...but again when we are looking at a lost season and people are clamouring to win for the sake of winning, this is what happens.

if we just got in the top 5, we wouldn't have to mortgage the future to get a player we want. was it that much more thrilling to be a 6-10 team than a 3-13 team? i don't think so.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Another wild guess from Schefter. This is the same as his report on "Bills could very well possibly would like to bring in Michael Vick."

Whatever.

[DraftBoy]

Another wild guess from Schefter. This is the same as his report on "Bills could very well possibly would like to bring in Michael Vick."

Whatever.

Wasn't it proven that the Bills did have legitimate interest in Vick? I can't remember.

[SpikedLemonade]

i really hope we aren't moving up...but again when we are looking at a lost season and people are clamouring to win for the sake of winning, this is what happens.

if we just got in the top 5, we wouldn't have to mortgage the future to get a player we want. was it that much more thrilling to be a 6-10 team than a 3-13 team? i don't think so.

To the homers it was.

[Luisito23]

But winning meaningless games matter for pride right?...LOL

[Ed]

I don't have any doubts that the Bills would love to get Clowney, but I just can't see them giving up the picks it would take to make that happen. I don't think the Bills have any glaring holes, but have plenty of room to improve their depth. I'd much rather see us trade down and get more picks in a deep draft.

I think if you're going to make an aggressive/risky move like that, it should be for a QB. I just can't see Clowney being able to impact a game enough to justify the cost.

[User Manuel]

Not the caliber of Matthews or Robinson.If Clowney is the real deal and Jake Matthews is the real deal...who would you rather have?
Clowney could be a game changer...Matthews could be solid..... they are both totally risky picks....I go the Clowney route every time. You can buy a solid RT if necessary.

[DraftBoy]

If Clowney is the real deal and Jake Matthews is the real deal...who would you rather have?
Clowney could be a game changer...Matthews could be solid..... they are both totally risky picks....I go the Clowney route every time. You can buy a solid RT if necessary.

Matthews, franchise LT is harder to find than a pass rusher even a generational one. QB is still the most important position on the field and protecting him should be priority #1.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Giving up the farm for the #1 should only be done if the team is one or two pieces away from domination. The Bills are nowhere near that.

[pmoon6]

as far as Clowney being Fool's Gold... have you read the reports about his lack of production this year and perhaps a questionable heart for the gameYou mean you didn't go out and scout and interview him, oh Master of all things football?

[YardRat]

Watkins isn't going to change any game for Buffalo if Manuel (or Lewis, or whoever) isn't protected first, and FJ and CJ aren't getting yards second. If the team had actually addressed RT in FA with Strief, or even Schwartz, I'd be all in for Watkins...maybe even Evans also...but they didn't...They did, however, address WR with Williams, at least.

Special kudos, btw, to X-Era for "LaCandouchebag".

[X-Era]

Watkins isn't going to change any game for Buffalo if Manuel (or Lewis, or whoever) isn't protected first, and FJ and CJ aren't getting yards second. If the team had actually addressed RT in FA with Strief, or even Schwartz, I'd be all in for Watkins...maybe even Evans also...but they didn't...They did, however, address WR with Williams, at least.

Special kudos, btw, to X-Era for "LaCandouchebag".I can't disagree with your logic. A top flight OT could make the difference in close games.

I just think Watkins can be a game changer and that we may be able to get solid starters at G and RT later in the draft.

But I'd have no issue with staying put for a OT. I'm higher on that now that Whaley made it clear he thinks the RT's should be as athletic as LT's.

[The Zone Ranger]

Clowney is the real deal. Don't get caught up in the he has no heart BS. The kid should have went in the draft last year. NCAA rules prohibited him from being able to do so. He could have gone #1 overall last year. He had nothing but the risk of getting hurt this year to cause him to not be a top five player. When you know your gonna face a big payday and the only thing getting in the way is an Injury you would scale it back too.

[stuckincincy]

I can't disagree with your logic. A top flight OT could make the difference in close games.

I just think Watkins can be a game changer and that we may be able to get solid starters at G and RT later in the draft.

But I'd have no issue with staying put for a OT. I'm higher on that now that Whaley made it clear he thinks the RT's should be as athletic as LT's.

AJ Green vs. Marcel Dareus, a few years ago? Green's a good wr, comes back - but he's a marginal pattern runner.

[The Zone Ranger]

BTW, I think Adam Scheftner really meant to say Bills fans would love to move up to # 1 to draft Clowney.
I think he reports on the bills knowing the fans are going to come away being frustrated that big expectations rarely get met.

[HAMMER]

Who is this Adam Scheftner?

[stuckincincy]

Who is this Adam Scheftner?

A European-American.

[chernobylwraiths]

i really hope we aren't moving up...but again when we are looking at a lost season and people are clamouring to win for the sake of winning, this is what happens.

if we just got in the top 5, we wouldn't have to mortgage the future to get a player we want. was it that much more thrilling to be a 6-10 team than a 3-13 team? i don't think so.
So, are the Bills supposed to TRY to lose?

[Buffalogic]

What's the problem with losing next year's first? Have we forgotten we are terrible in the first round? If we can trade away two firsts for a can't miss player, I'd much rather have that instead of a complete bust and a borderline starter. You people...

[trapezeus]

So, are the Bills supposed to TRY to lose?

the bills obviously play to win. it's their job. but the fans shouldn't be clamouring for wins because it means something. time has shown winning a game or two at the end of december doesn't amount to a new attitude come next september.

i think once the season is obviously out of control and the playoffs are no longer a reality, there isn't anything wrong with hoping that they just lose out. because in the end, that's what going to turn this around faster.

that being said, i think the bills are a game managing QB away and another round of minimal Defensive injuries from being a playoff team.

and for one year, that'll be good enough. but at some point we would like to win the whole thing. and for that top happen we are going to need a whole lot of luck or we're going to need more talent.

[better days]

Who is this Adam Scheftner?

An former employee of NFL Network.

[better days]

What's the problem with losing next year's first? Have we forgotten we are terrible in the first round? If we can trade away two firsts for a can't miss player, I'd much rather have that instead of a complete bust and a borderline starter. You people...

Well, since we are terrible in the first round, that player we trade up to draft will be a BUST.

[Mike]

To the homers it was.

I used to ask the homers if they would suck for Luck both before and after he was selected by colts.

In each instance they preferred to win those extra 5 games.

[Mike]

the bills obviously play to win. it's their job. but the fans shouldn't be clamouring for wins because it means something. time has shown winning a game or two at the end of december doesn't amount to a new attitude come next september.

i think once the season is obviously out of control and the playoffs are no longer a reality, there isn't anything wrong with hoping that they just lose out. because in the end, that's what going to turn this around faster.

that being said, i think the bills are a game managing QB away and another round of minimal Defensive injuries from being a playoff team.

and for one year, that'll be good enough. but at some point we would like to win the whole thing. and for that top happen we are going to need a whole lot of luck or we're going to need more talent.

Exactly. Our goal as fans should be for the Bills to win SB not just make a playoff appearance and be ok team.

To be a real contender, we need a top 5 QB and enough great pieces around him. Most often that top QB and those top pieces are high draft picks & sometimes FA pick ups.

In order for this to happen most effectively, and most probably, the Bills need to completely bottom out when a top game changing QB is entering draft. Luck, RG3, Manning, etc are good examples. You draft that super talent and build around him.

This gives you Highest probability of getting a top 5 QB. Overall, there is a HUGE difference between drafting a prospect like Luck and drafting any other first round QB later in 1st round or in poor QB classes, or later in draft; that all lowers odds substantially.

Bills need to completely bottom out when the next great QB prospect is expected to Become draft eligible.

[better days]

Exactly. Our goal as fans should be for the Bills to win SB not just make a playoff appearance and be ok team.

To be a real contender, we need a top 5 QB and enough great pieces around him. Most often that top QB and those top pieces are high draft picks & sometimes FA pick ups.

In order for this to happen most effectively, and most probably, the Bills need to completely bottom out when a top game changing QB is entering draft. Luck, RG3, Manning, etc are good examples. You draft that super talent and build around him.

This gives you Highest probability of getting a top 5 QB. Overall, there is a HUGE difference between drafting a prospect like Luck and drafting any other first round QB later in 1st round or in poor QB classes, or later in draft; that all lowers odds substantially.

Bills need to completely bottom out when the next great QB prospect is expected to Become draft eligible.

So far, neither Luck or RGIII have changed all that many games.

Wilson & Kaepernick have been more successful & neither was taken in the first rnd.

[X-Era]

Exactly. Our goal as fans should be for the Bills to win SB not just make a playoff appearance and be ok team.

To be a real contender, we need a top 5 QB and enough great pieces around him. Most often that top QB and those top pieces are high draft picks & sometimes FA pick ups.

In order for this to happen most effectively, and most probably, the Bills need to completely bottom out when a top game changing QB is entering draft. Luck, RG3, Manning, etc are good examples. You draft that super talent and build around him.

This gives you Highest probability of getting a top 5 QB. Overall, there is a HUGE difference between drafting a prospect like Luck and drafting any other first round QB later in 1st round or in poor QB classes, or later in draft; that all lowers odds substantially.

Bills need to completely bottom out when the next great QB prospect is expected to Become draft eligible.
This is not the only path.

You need a QB good enough to not lose games for you but win a few for you. And then you need enough stars and solid starters plus solid depth in case of injury.

We're not that far off.

We need another star or two but could already have that guy on our roster about to emerge and/or the draft.

We need a few more solid starters at positions like RT and G.

And then we need more solid depth which we have made a huge dent in already.

EJ will be the make or break of the teams fortunes for the playoffs I agree. But I think he has a legit chance to be good enough to fit the requirements I've already listed.

You don't have to have Luck or Manning. Wilson, Kaep, hell Eli are good enough if you have the rest of the team filled out nicely.

[chernobylwraiths]

the bills obviously play to win. it's their job. but the fans shouldn't be clamouring for wins because it means something. time has shown winning a game or two at the end of december doesn't amount to a new attitude come next september.

i think once the season is obviously out of control and the playoffs are no longer a reality, there isn't anything wrong with hoping that they just lose out. because in the end, that's what going to turn this around faster.

that being said, i think the bills are a game managing QB away and another round of minimal Defensive injuries from being a playoff team.

and for one year, that'll be good enough. but at some point we would like to win the whole thing. and for that top happen we are going to need a whole lot of luck or we're going to need more talent.

Sure, I don't feel BAD if they lose out in a bad season. But they players are always going to try to win, hell if they don't I don't want them on my team. The only problem I had with coaches/management in the past was that near the end of the season they should have been playing rookies or anybody else they could to see how good they were at the end of the season and not some old veteran at the end of their career.

[X-Era]

More fuel for the Watkins fire:

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/286784/Report-Bills-'enamored-by'-Sammy-Watkins?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[The Jokeman]

More fuel for the Watkins fire:

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/286784/Report-Bills-'enamored-by'-Sammy-Watkins?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Tavon Austin ranks No. 1 on Buffalo Bills' draft board (dated 4/25/2013) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000163272/printable/tavon-austin-ranks-no-1-on-buffalo-bills-draft-board

[better days]

So, are the Bills supposed to TRY to lose?

You mean like the Sabres?

[The Zone Ranger]

The rumers are going to fly fast and furious now.

[X-Era]

Tavon Austin ranks No. 1 on Buffalo Bills' draft board (dated 4/25/2013) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000163272/printable/tavon-austin-ranks-no-1-on-buffalo-bills-draft-board
It's smokescreen time I agree.

But I think this one has more legs than Tavon Austin... Interesting that the Rams may yet again be a trade partner.

[The Jokeman]

It's smokescreen time I agree.

But I think this one has more legs than Tavon Austin... Interesting that the Rams may yet again be a trade partner.

IF we didn't trade for Mike Williams I'd agree with you. Yet with Williams in the fold we have SJ13 who has proven he can be a 1,000 yard receiver, Williams showed to be equally as good as SJ in Tampa as think Williams is a legit #2 WR in the NFL and can play on the outside. Though we also have a developing Robert Woods and Goodwin. While everyone loves to hate on TJ Graham he is entering his pivotal "3rd year" this year. With as strong this class is at WR I just don't see the need to take an Watkins if we're playing to make the playoffs in 2014. I think we are (assuming of course EJ can stay healthy). That's why I think it's going to be down to Matthews (who may slide), Lewan (to me more realistic at being there) vs Ebron. To me the O-lineman makes more sense as I just don't see a rookie WR/TE producing the numbers we could get out of a veteran like Stevie or Williams. I mean as much as call Chandler a #2 TE his numbers were as good as any rookie TE from last year.

[Ed]

Tavon Austin probably was one of their favorite prospects last year, but they also desperately needed a qb.

[CoolBreeze]

The rumers are going to fly fast and furious now.

Agreed, I'm not sure if anyone else saw NFL insiders on ESPN today at 3:30, because they moved it to ESPN 2 with the Sterling ordeal ending. But Todd McShay went over trade buzz for the draft. He specifically pointed out that the team he's been hearing come up the most is in fact the Bills. He said not just to trade up to number 1, which he has heard. But perhap even the top 3 or top 5.

Starting to believe moving up may happen

[gr8slayer]

Yeah, the Bills and every other team in the league.

[gonzo1105]

I think Cleveland makes a ton of sense. The Browns apparently really like Derek Carr. If they could move down to #9 and get their guy still what's not to like. The trade value makes a ton of sense to. The Browns pick is worth 1800 and 9 is worth 1390. Throw in 41 and were up to 1840. We could conceivably do this and get Watkins.

9&41 for 4 and a 5th rounder.

[Skooby]

We're going all the way, it's a gamble only men desperate to save their jobs will do.

[Mike]

So far, neither Luck or RGIII have changed all that many games.

Wilson & Kaepernick have been more successful & neither was taken in the first rnd.

Luck has taken a 2-14 Colts team to playoffs two straight years & won playoff game last year. Substitute EJ for Luck and the Colts don't sniff the playoffs.

RG3 had a very good rookie year and took the Redskins to playoffs after they were left for dead with a 3-6 start. Last year he was recovering from a knee injury, had issues with new offense and regressed. Even great players have bad years, and RG3 has a ways to go before he is a great QB. Time will tell.

Wilson, has had the greatest start to a NFL career with a SB trophie and a 100+ QB rating first two years. Love the kid and he was phenomenal in helping Seahawks win. Further, I would throw Keap in there as well, to a lesser extent. However, these guys are the exception not the rule.

Finding the next Keap or Wilson is a lot less probable than finding next Luck or RG3..... It's easier to draft a Mannig first overall than finding many Brady in the 6th round.


So instead of trying to get lucky like the Pats, I prefer the Bills bottom out like the Colts and get a Luck or Manning.

[Mike]

This is not the only path.

You need a QB good enough to not lose games for you but win a few for you. And then you need enough stars and solid starters plus solid depth in case of injury.

We're not that far off.

We need another star or two but could already have that guy on our roster about to emerge and/or the draft.

We need a few more solid starters at positions like RT and G.

And then we need more solid depth which we have made a huge dent in already.

EJ will be the make or break of the teams fortunes for the playoffs I agree. But I think he has a legit chance to be good enough to fit the requirements I've already listed.

You don't have to have Luck or Manning. Wilson, Kaep, hell Eli are good enough if you have the rest of the team filled out nicely.

It's not the only path, but I think it's clearly the best Path.

As a fan I want a SB contender. A team that can win it all. Not some playoff team that's never good enough. I don't want to be the next Texans

[YardRat]

http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/29/buffalo-bills-trade-up-draft-sammy-watkins/

“The other name that McShay brings up as a potential trade-up target is interesting. Clemson’s Sammy Watkins is someone that the Bills seem to be enamored by, according to a league source. Based on that conversation, it wouldn’t be shocking at all for the Bills to move up to select Watkins if he gets past either Jacksonville (3) or Cleveland (4).”

Watkins performed well during his individual workout with the Bills and could be the franchise wide receiver they covet.

[X-Era]

It's not the only path, but I think it's clearly the best Path.

As a fan I want a SB contender. A team that can win it all. Not some playoff team that's never good enough. I don't want to be the next TexansOr the next Seahawks?

I agree that if you land the next Peyton Manning you're chances of winning SB's go up exponentially. But there's a lot of levels between Peyton Manning and Eli Manning... or even Russell Wilson.

[X-Era]

http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/29/buffalo-bills-trade-up-draft-sammy-watkins/

“The other name that McShay brings up as a potential trade-up target is interesting. Clemson’s Sammy Watkins is someone that the Bills seem to be enamored by, according to a league source. Based on that conversation, it wouldn’t be shocking at all for the Bills to move up to select Watkins if he gets past either Jacksonville (3) or Cleveland (4).”

Watkins performed well during his individual workout with the Bills and could be the franchise wide receiver they covet.McShay is saying the move up would be for Clowney, Robinson, or Watkins... If it's a smokescreen to push someone else down, I'd think it's Mack or Matthews.

But I just get the feeling it's legit and it's for Watkins. Mike Williams is a one year rental if he has any problems due to his contract getting big next year.

[better days]

Or the next Seahawks?

I agree that if you land the next Peyton Manning you're chances of winning SB's go up exponentially. But there's a lot of levels between Peyton Manning and Eli Manning... or even Russell Wilson.

And Eli is not close to his brother in regards to talent, but Eli has two Super Bowl wins to Peyton's one.

[X-Era]

And Eli is not close to his brother in regards to talent, but Eli has two Super Bowl wins to Peyton's one.Drives home the point. There is no one formula and having a HOF QB is not the only way. That said, It sure does help.

[sukie]

Drives home the point. There is no one formula and having a HOF QB is not the only way. That said, It sure does help.

A dominant pass rush from all sides helps.

[better days]

Luck has taken a 2-14 Colts team to playoffs two straight years & won playoff game last year. Substitute EJ for Luck and the Colts don't sniff the playoffs.

RG3 had a very good rookie year and took the Redskins to playoffs after they were left for dead with a 3-6 start. Last year he was recovering from a knee injury, had issues with new offense and regressed. Even great players have bad years, and RG3 has a ways to go before he is a great QB. Time will tell.

Wilson, has had the greatest start to a NFL career with a SB trophie and a 100+ QB rating first two years. Love the kid and he was phenomenal in helping Seahawks win. Further, I would throw Keap in there as well, to a lesser extent. However, these guys are the exception not the rule.

Finding the next Keap or Wilson is a lot less probable than finding next Luck or RG3..... It's easier to draft a Mannig first overall than finding many Brady in the 6th round.


So instead of trying to get lucky like the Pats, I prefer the Bills bottom out like the Colts and get a Luck or Manning.

A team has to be lucky enough to suck enough to pick first in the year a HOF QB is in the draft.

You think that is easier than drafting a very good QB in the 2nd or 3rd rnd?

I would disagree with that.

[Historian]

As most of you are either current or ex-WNYers, doesn't a small part of you want to see Mack slide down to the Bills?

The sentimental side of me does.

And it's not like he's not a very good football player, either.

Think what that buys Russ the Marketing Boy: PR...validation of the UB program...local hero...the possibilities are endless.

For years I've griped that the Bills rarely cultivated the talent in their own back yard, mostly from Syracuse.

Wouldn't it be nice to pick a rose from the garden in the front yard????

[X-Era]

As most of you are either current or ex-WNYers, doesn't a small part of you want to see Mack slide down to the Bills?

The sentimental side of me does.

And it's not like he's not a very good football player, either.

Think what that buys Russ the Marketing Boy: PR...validation of the UB program...local hero...the possibilities are endless.

For years I've griped that the Bills rarely cultivated the talent in their own back yard, mostly from Syracuse.

Wouldn't it be nice to pick a rose from the garden in the front yard????
Hell yes I do. It would be a fantastic story.

I like other players a bit more at other positions for the Bills. But Mack is #3 on my list and I'd love to see that kid in a Bills uni.

[better days]

Hell yes I do. It would be a fantastic story.

I like other players a bit more at other positions for the Bills. But Mack is #3 on my list and I'd love to see that kid in a Bills uni.

Well, Watkins grew up a Bills fan, I think he would be a great pick as well.