Trade and Sammy Watkins... Thoughts?

[BuffaloRedleg]

I guess I'll get the thread started.

I'll start off by saying it certainly is exciting, but I absolutely hate losing next year's 1st. I can't stress that enough. If EJ gets injured or doesn't work out, I mean, what the hell are we going to do next year? It is cute that they are worried about their jobs and want to win now and are "all in" on EJ... I've got that. But after they are long fired and departed we are still going to be here dealing with a team with no QB and no chance.

That being said, if EJ does take the next step then well this could be the tipping point. The defense is there, the weapons are around him- this might be one of the best WR corps in the NFL. I'm assuming we go OT in rnd 2, which should be good enough. This is a playoff team if we can get the QB going and maybe this will be the catalyst. I admire their aggressiveness, I'll give them that.

We all better pray this works out, otherwise it's going to be a lonnnnnng rebuild with no #1 next year.

[LVGrown]

I really wanted Khalil Mack, but this pick is growing on me. I just hope we see an impact from him this year and dont gotta wait a year or 2.

[alohabillsfan]

Odds are Cleveland picks in top 10 next year :(

[Jan Reimers]

Great pick! The future - after 14 shi**y seasons - is NOW!

[BuffaloRedleg]

I really wanted Khalil Mack, but this pick is growing on me. I just hope we see an impact from him this year and dont gotta wait a year or 2.

Typically that isn't the case, but he won't have a ton of pressure on him. I imagine Stevie will head to the slot, and a 4 WR set with Williams, Woods and Watkins is just ******* scary.

[CoolBreeze]

Nice trade... We lost nothing this year, and only a 1st next year and a 4th. We got who we wanted and he's better then anyone we get at 9. I believe he's going to make a huge impact. Good move

[BuffaloRedleg]

Odds are Cleveland picks in top 10 next year :(

Could you imagine if they have the #1 and #2 picks next year? Has that ever happened?

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Nice trade... We lost nothing this year, and only a 1st next year and a 4th. We got who we wanted and he's better then anyone we get at 9. I believe he's going to make a huge impact. Good move

If EJ tears his ACL this year you will feel much, much differently.

[Kenny]

Im pretty happy... In for a penny in for a pound right?

Guys like Matthews and Mike Evans werent going to fall to us @ 9 anyways, so might as well go after the elite WR in this class. I've heard some comparisons to Dez Bryant, but without the attitude. I'd be willing to pay the price if Watkins gets to be next in line of elite WRs... only time will tell I guess.

[The Popcorn]

Bills have #1 WR and a playmaker. Get Taj Boyd later and you have the Clemson connection.

[cookie G]

Love, love, love the player, everything about him

Its Manuel or bust. 0 hedging.

About all you can say about it.

[Stewie]

I like it medium amount.

[Buffalogic]

Elated. Come on guys we choke first rounders all the time. There were 3 gems that were on their own tier this year and we got one of them. It's epic. It's aggressive. It's completely anti-bills. I am so pleased with the offseason so far. Spikes breaking the worthless character barrier, trading up for the consensus best receiver, huge. I have a lot of confidence in Whaley. The dude has balls and he goes for it. I'm with that. It's a new day for sure and it's so great not to get embarrassed on draft day for the 100th time.

[Crisis]

I like Watkins as a player but it's a lot to give up for a WR. When was the last time a WR put a team over the top?

The Falcons had Matt Ryan when they got Julio.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That's 6 top 100 picks on wideouts in four drafts, and that doesn't even include Johnson or Williams. Manuel has no excuses whatsoever.

[don137]

Very excited to get a bona fide number one receiver. If you can get a potential all pro receiver that is so good after the catch it is worth losing next year's first. From a Bills management and coaching staff you have to go all in if they believe in EJ and apparently they do.

[Crisis]

Atleast this probably means I'll never have to see TJ Graham in a Bills uniform ever again.

[Buffalogic]

It's all about BPA. The top three picks should have been Clown, Watkins, Mack. We got one of them. Position is irrelevant imo. But it is also a need. Win/win. Also, we keep our second round pick which we always hit the lotto on. Really impressed.

[The Jokeman]

I like Watkins as a player but it's a lot to give up for a WR. When was the last time a WR put a team over the top?

The Falcons had Matt Ryan when they got Julio.
Julio benefitted of playing opposite Roddy White. I hate this pick as rookie WRs rarely produce at the Julio level unless playing opposite an above average talent or they're no one else on the team to throw to, Both of which isn't the case of the Bills. Seriously we had an emerging rookie in Woods and Mike Williams here and that doesn't count Stevie. Now we're 4 deep at WR and also have Goodwin/Graham. We could have stayed put and gotten Ebron which too me is better value.

[doug45]

The problem is he will need someone to get the ball to him. Ej can have some good games but is hurt several times a season. We need a QB and now we don't have our #1 for next year either !!! hope he can stay healthy this year !? Plus this guy is young and has gotten in trouble for drugs even before he gets to the pros, usually they wait until they get here to get in trouble.

[BertSquirtgum]

Sammy's favorite team growing up was the Bills.

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?480454-Sammy-Watkins-favorite-team-is-the-BILLS&p=7300354#post7300354

[GvilleBills]

Sammy is nasty, and we keep our picks this year. Use next couple on OL.
That 2015 1st is scary as ****. SO MUCH pressure on EJ.

[Fletch]

I think that Whaley doesn't know what he's doing. If you're going to take these kinds of risks, then you do it for a player like Manziel, not Watkins.

This team is un-BILL-ieveable.

I don't see this move getting high grades and can it possibly be more ******ed to draft a WR highly with a QB that can't even find a groove.

[BLeonard]

https://twitter.com/InsideTheLeague/statuses/420276380354375680


#Clemson WR Sammy Watkins has signed with Relativity Sports. Tory Dandy & Eugene Parker will represent him.

Talk about a kick in the balls...

-Bill

[Fletch]

The problem is he will need someone to get the ball to him. Ej can have some good games but is hurt several times a season. We need a QB and now we don't have our #1 for next year either !!! hope he can stay healthy this year !?

A 12-year old can figure that out, only our FO can't figure it out.

[Fletch]

Sammy is nasty, and we keep our picks this year. Use next couple on OL.
That 2015 1st is scary as ****. SO MUCH pressure on EJ.

There's pressure on everyone,... Manuel, Watkins, Whaley, Marrone, Hackett.

IMO this crew just cemented their ouster after next season. Rookie WRs never have the kinds of seasons that propel teams into the playoffs.

[SpikedLemonade]

That's 6 top 100 picks on wideouts in four drafts, and that doesn't even include Johnson or Williams. Manuel has no excuses whatsoever.

Does his OL?

[colin]

Most talented guy in the draft

[SpikedLemonade]

Julio benefitted of playing opposite Roddy White. I hate this pick as rookie WRs rarely produce at the Julio level unless playing opposite an above average talent or they're no one else on the team to throw to, Both of which isn't the case of the Bills. Seriously we had an emerging rookie in Woods and Mike Williams here and that doesn't count Stevie. Now we're 4 deep at WR and also have Goodwin/Graham. We could have stayed put and gotten Ebron which too me is better value.

Oh the homers will just blame EJ.

They already think this is a play-off team with just adequate QBing.

[Mace]

I think it was terrible, because they are going to need that 1st rounder on one position or another next year. Watkins can be Julio Jones and Julio Jones did not put Atlanta over the top.

Big fan of the player, not at all a fan of the trade or pick. Very much a Spiller move to me. Got someone we may not be able to use, and even if we do he's just not the final piece of anything, much less sacrificing next years number one.

I don't see how we're a receiver away from the playoffs or of being a complete team if the QB we may or may not have, cannot survive behind a line we may or may not have, unable to throw to an outlet TE weapon we don't have, to throw to a superstar WR who can be continuously irrelevantly open without being able to get the ball.

It's obviously just my opinion, but I think this was an overly optimistic, frivolous trade and pick, and my personal Whaley approval clock started ticking.

Not meaning to be a frowny face, but very disappointed.

[Mace]

I like Watkins as a player but it's a lot to give up for a WR. When was the last time a WR put a team over the top?

The Falcons had Matt Ryan when they got Julio.

And Julio didn't put them over the top. They still had Matt Ryan and Julio going 4-12 last year though.

[Crisis]

And Julio didn't put them over the top. They still had Matt Ryan and Julio going 4-12 last year though.

Well they had Julio for 5 games.

[Turf]

Great move, love it. And I just read Sammy grew up a Bills fan. Now it gets even better.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Watkins can be Julio Jones and Julio Jones did not put Atlanta over the top.

What are you talking about? Atlanta was 10 yards from a Super Bowl trip in 2012.

[Kenny]

And Julio didn't put them over the top. They still had Matt Ryan and Julio going 4-12 last year though.

No, but they did make the playoffs the two years prior with Julio

[RedEyE]

Not a fan of this pick. I respect Watkins game and the Bills obviously need a receiver but for the love of all that is holy, how many speedy short receivers can one team roster? Would rather have avoided the trade and reeled in Mike Evans.

[Mace]

What are you talking about? Atlanta was 10 yards from a Super Bowl trip in 2012.

It was 10 yards too many and they were 4-12 last year. They've been developing multiple needs and lacked picks to help them. Yes, Jones only played five games, but you have to think that might happen and that one loss will not cripple a team. Would those additional picks have helped offset it, was drafting Jones enough to put them over the top ? They were already a playoff team and already had a Matt Ryan to count on.

I just don't think it really gained Atlanta a hella lot. They were 13-3, lost Division without him. Paid a lot to get him. Lost WC 10-6, lost conference 13-3, he got hurt, 4-12. They had 9-7 and 11-5 records before that even.

They were already a winning team. The frosting still didn't get them over the top.

[bdutton]

I would have liked Khalil Mack too but our defense is the strength...we had needs at WR and T. We got the best of the draft class in our need. Cant complain about that. But we will have to have a 500+ season this year or it will be a negative due to the loss of draft picks in the future.

[Buffalogic]

Not a fan of this pick. I respect Watkins game and the Bills obviously need a receiver but for the love of all that is holy, how many speedy short receivers can one team roster? Would rather have avoided the trade and reeled in Mike Evans.
Is 6 foot short now? He has good size and great speed.

[BertSquirtgum]

Not a fan of this pick. I respect Watkins game and the Bills obviously need a receiver but for the love of all that is holy, how many speedy short receivers can one team roster? Would rather have avoided the trade and reeled in Mike Evans.
6'1 isn't short

[Lone Stranger]

Gave up too much.

[The Jokeman]

6'1 isn't short

It's about the same height as Stevie and Mike Williams and an inch taller than Robert Woods. In other words it's not the 6-5 220 BIG WR we lack.

[BertSquirtgum]

Gave up too much.

I agree. Sammy Watkins basically cost the Bills 2 1st and a 4th round pick. Too much. Especially if EJ blows this year. The loss of this pick will haunt the Bills for years to come.

[RedEyE]

Julio Jones 6' 3"
Calvin Johnson 6' 5"
AJ Green 6' 4"

Just to name an elite few.

Yeah 6' 1" is short when your starting wr depth chart doesnt hold an up and over guy. EJ better have really improved his accuracy. He got himself another drop in the basket receiver.

[soapman]

I think that Whaley doesn't know what he's doing. If you're going to take these kinds of risks, then you do it for a player like Manziel, not Watkins.

This team is un-BILL-ieveable.

I don't see this move getting high grades and can it possibly be more ******ed to draft a WR highly with a QB that can't even find a groove.

You value Manzel over a Watkins? Whaaaaaat? Th Bills and EVERYBODY else got it wrong?

[Buffalogic]

I agree. Sammy Watkins basically cost the Bills 2 1st and a 4th round pick. Too much. Especially if EJ blows this year. The loss of this pick will haunt the Bills for years to come.
Dude the picks we make haunt the bills for years. Whitner, McKelvin, Spiller, Maybin, Manuel. All could be considered especially terrible with the players that were drafted around them. I'm a fan of going for the (almost) sure thing instead.

[wmoz11]

You can always get a first-round pick. There are many ways to do it if they want to next year. Hell, maybe they actually have a decent year and pick around 20th where it won't hurt as badly. Just relax and enjoy thinking about the weapons we're going to have.

Also, for those of you itching to get rid of EJ, this gives him less excuse and a shorter leash, probably.

[SpikedLemonade]

I agree. Sammy Watkins basically cost the Bills 2 1st and a 4th round pick. Too much. Especially if EJ blows this year. The loss of this pick will haunt the Bills for years to come.

But if the team does not make the play-offs this year, the new owner will fire Russ and the Dougs so they will not be here to have no picks next year.

It was a job saving move on their part.

[kingJofNYC]

We have a first round pick every year and still suck. We may not have a first next year, and we may in all likelihood still suck, but I love that we took a risk and I love Watkins.

[soapman]

It's about the same height as Stevie and Mike Williams and an inch taller than Robert Woods. In other words it's not the 6-5 220 BIG WR we lack.

Why do we NEED a 6'5 receiver? When was size really the difference maker? Better yet how manny "Big receivers" are in the HOF? How many are game changers?

[Mace]

You can always get a first-round pick. There are many ways to do it if they want to next year. Hell, maybe they actually have a decent year and pick around 20th where it won't hurt as badly. Just relax and enjoy thinking about the weapons we're going to have.

Also, for those of you itching to get rid of EJ, this gives him less excuse and a shorter leash, probably.

Umm, many ways to do it like how, besides trading more of them ?

Was so easy, Washington didn't want one this year.

[TacklingDummy]

Umm, many ways to do it like how, besides trading more of them ?

Mike Evans will have a better career.

[soapman]

I agree. Sammy Watkins basically cost the Bills 2 1st and a 4th round pick. Too much. Especially if EJ blows this year. The loss of this pick will haunt the Bills for years to come.
Only gave up one 1st,...because the picked Sammy with a 1st. It's not even hard math.

[soapman]

Mike Evans will have a better career.
Because he's tall? Get's no separation and is slow? Kid can grab jump balls. AND? So can Vincent Jackson....

[Mace]

Only gave up one 1st,...because the picked Sammy with a 1st. It's not even hard math.

I think you're going to miss that one first next year.

[soapman]

I think you're going to miss that one first next year.
That may be true but it's still one 1st we gave up

[wmoz11]

Because he's tall? Get's no separation and is slow? Kid can grab jump balls. AND? So can Vincent Jackson....

Do you not realize that this front office has to win like right this second? They may not be around for next year. Ownership has no tie to these guys and they need to make a statement. Want a 2015 1st? Trade a 2016 1st. Hell, we could trade our 2nd this year and a roster player to a perennial contender for a late 1st next year or even this year. It's really not that hard.

A 1st isn't a 1st. If we finish with the 20th overall pick next year then moving up 5 spots to get the player we had at the top of the board was 100% worth it. That's why there's a trade value chart.

[The Jokeman]

Do you not realize that this front office has to win like right this second? They may not be around for next year. Ownership has no tie to these guys and they need to make a statement. Want a 2015 1st? Trade a 2016 1st. Hell, we could trade our 2nd this year and a roster player to a perennial contender for a late 1st next year or even this year. It's really not that hard.

A 1st isn't a 1st. If we finish with the 20th overall pick next year then moving up 5 spots to get the player we had at the top of the board was 100% worth it. That's why there's a trade value chart.

and asking for a rookie to step in at the WR position and move you from the 9th worst team in the league and move you to the 20th or so best team in the league to keep your job is asking too much IMO. I'm holding off my full judgement until the draft is over. Again I love that we didn't give up any picks this year to get him but feel we gave up a lot overall for just a WR. I mean let's assume Watkins earns one of our top 2 WR spots what kind of stats do you predict? I'm thinking 50 catches for about 700 yards and 4 TDs which think Woods or Williams could have just as easily produced.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I think it was terrible, because they are going to need that 1st rounder on one position or another next year. Watkins can be Julio Jones and Julio Jones did not put Atlanta over the top.

Big fan of the player, not at all a fan of the trade or pick. Very much a Spiller move to me. Got someone we may not be able to use, and even if we do he's just not the final piece of anything, much less sacrificing next years number one.

I don't see how we're a receiver away from the playoffs or of being a complete team if the QB we may or may not have, cannot survive behind a line we may or may not have, unable to throw to an outlet TE weapon we don't have, to throw to a superstar WR who can be continuously irrelevantly open without being able to get the ball.

It's obviously just my opinion, but I think this was an overly optimistic, frivolous trade and pick, and my personal Whaley approval clock started ticking.

Not meaning to be a frowny face, but very disappointed.

I'm with you man. This team has no business giving up first round picks.

[wmoz11]

and asking for a rookie to step in at the WR position and move you from the 9th worst team in the league and move you to the 20th or so best team in the league to keep your job is asking too much IMO. I'm holding off my full judgement until the draft is over. Again I love that we didn't give up any picks this year to get him but feel we gave up a lot overall for just a WR. I mean let's assume Watkins earns one of our top 2 WR spots what kind of stats do you predict? I'm thinking 50 catches for about 700 yards and 4 TDs which think Woods or Williams could have just as easily produced.

Totally agree about the importance of not giving up our 2nd or 3rd this year. That was why we had to give up a 1st next year and that's fine with me.

Keep in mind that just adding Watkins in a vaccuum may not be enough, but if it opens up space and dictates coverage for our other young guys hence making them better and EJ better, then the improvement is seen incrementally at many positions.

[Turf]

The game of football is not about playing "draft" 365 days a year. There are plenty of ways to build a team. You get elite talent when you can. If you can't figure out a way to get around it, then you're a bad GM. I'm all for the move.

[WagonCircler]

Nice trade... We lost nothing this year, and only a 1st next year and a 4th.

ONLY A FIRST AND A FOURTH NEXT YEAR??????????????

Are you kidding me?

They bet the next 3 or 4 years on EJ *******---ing Manuel.

Horrifying.

[psubills62]

I'm not really familiar with the draft prospects this year at all. Seems like Watkins is a great player, from the little I knew about him in college.

That said, I personally am not a huge fan of this. Hate giving up future picks, especially a first rounder. Never really thought that WR's were that impactful on the game. Felt there were multiple greater needs.

On the other hand: it's clear they're trying to upgrade the talent and athleticism, especially on offense. If they're sticking with EJ Manuel, then they could use someone to break the short passes into long gains. Also, I read from someone who works in a front office that a lot of teams have 52+ first round grades in this draft. So I'm glad they didn't lose any picks in this draft.

I think in general they're pushing the team in the right direction. But I certainly don't really agree with the way they go about it for the most part.

[TacklingDummy]

Maybe the worst move since drafting Maybin. Since it will cost two 1st round picks and a 4th.

[WagonCircler]

Maybe the worst move since drafting Maybin. Since it will cost two 1st round picks and a 4th.

Two firsts and a fourth for yet another smallish WR.

Unbelievable.

[BuffaloRedleg]

ONLY A FIRST AND A FOURTH NEXT YEAR??????????????

Are you kidding me?

They bet the next 3 or 4 years on EJ *******---ing Manuel.

Horrifying.

I just don't have it anymore to get worked up, and I'm only 30! I'll say this, it is certainly exciting and interesting that the management is "all in" right now. They showed balls.

My issue is that they are saying "we know we need to win now, so **** the future our jobs are at stake we have to win now or we'll get fired". That's great for them. They'll all find good jobs somewhere else, but it is US who are going to be stuck with no QB and no chance to draft a QB if this fails.

If we finish this draft OT in round 2 and QB in round 3 (murray/metterburger), then I'll feel a lot better. Actually much much better.

[wmoz11]

On what planet is 6'1", 215 a smallish WR? Certainly not this one. You guys really need to watch more college football.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Maybe the worst move since drafting Maybin. Since it will cost two 1st round picks and a 4th.

I don't get why people are saying 2 first picks. It's 1 first pick next year is all it costs us right? I don't see the need to count this years pick because it is a move up. Maybe I'm lost.

[psubills62]

I don't get why people are saying 2 first picks. It's 1 first pick next year is all it costs us right? I don't see the need to count this years pick because it is a move up. Maybe I'm lost.
Because we used a first round pick to select him.

[wmoz11]

Yeah, not following that logic at all. Look, Kelvin Benjamin just cost the Panthers a 1st-round pick. How will they survive?

[X-Era]

As a player it's one of the best picks in a decade for the Bills. Alot to give up pick wise. I think it's a great move and worth it. Love it

[The Jokeman]

Yeah, not following that logic at all. Look, Kelvin Benjamin just cost the Panthers a 1st-round pick. How will they survive?

But the Panthers didn't have a developing WR on the roster (we have two in Woods and Goodwin) nor do they have two previous 900 yard WRs like we do in Stevie and Mike Williams. I think those that were crying we needed a WR under appreciate what we already had on this roster.

[WagonCircler]

On what planet is 6'1", 215 a smallish WR? Certainly not this one. You guys really need to watch more college football.

Whaley's quote "He plays bigger than his size."

You want to draft Mike Evans (although ABSOLUTELY NOT for a 2 firsts and a 4th)? OK, add some size to the corps of surfs. But mortgaging the future on a WR when you have no QB? Asinine.

[WagonCircler]

I don't get why people are saying 2 first picks. It's 1 first pick next year is all it costs us right? I don't see the need to count this years pick because it is a move up. Maybe I'm lost.

When the draft started, we had this year's 1st pick, next year's 1st and 4th picks.

Now, we have one player, but we no longer have this year's 1st pick, next year's 1st and 4th picks.

[DBrown77]

Atlanta have up two 1sts, a second and two 4ths for Julio jones. I hope Watkins turns out as good.

[wmoz11]

Whaley's quote "He plays bigger than his size."

You want to draft Mike Evans (although ABSOLUTELY NOT for a 2 firsts and a 4th)? OK, add some size to the corps of surfs. But mortgaging the future on a WR when you have no QB? Asinine.

Plays bigger than his size just means he plays bigger than a good-sized receiver. It doesn't mean he's short. If you think 6'1" is short for an NFL WR, then I don't know what to tell you.

And I'll take the better receiver over the bigger receiver all day. Mortgaging the future? Watkins is the future.

[BuffaloRedleg]

When the draft started, we had this year's 1st pick, next year's 1st and 4th picks.

Now, we have one player, but we no longer have this year's 1st pick, next year's 1st and 4th picks.

No I get that, but come on that's a little misleading. I'm not a fan of the move, but it has absolutely nothing to do with losing this year's first. That is completely missing the point, or throwing something on top to make the argument seem better. I think we agree, the argument doesn't need any misleading information to be a clearly risky (borderline crazy) move.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Atlanta have up two 1sts, a second and two 4ths for Julio jones. I hope Watkins turns out as good.

Atlanta was a much, much, much better team than us when they took him. This fact can't be ignored.

[WagonCircler]

I just don't have it anymore to get worked up, and I'm only 30! I'll say this, it is certainly exciting and interesting that the management is "all in" right now. They showed balls.

I remember in the late 70s, at the height of the "Women's Liberation" movement, right after Billie Jean King beat a 50 year old Bobby Riggs in an exhibition tennis match.

A female kick boxer challenged a male kick boxer to a regular match. She showed balls. A lot of balls.

At the :30 second mark of the first round, she literally, very, very literally, found herself, and her "balls" in the 4th row.

As the Tragically Hip said. "Courage, couldn't come at a worse time."

They Bills FO was just PLAYED by the Cleveland Browns.

And now, next year, when Whaley's been fired and Brandon's been fired and Marrone's been fired and EJ has failed, not only will the Bills not be able to draft a QB in the 1st round, they will have a hard time finding a HC.

[wmoz11]

Let's just all agree that we're happy we didn't draft Blake Bortles with the 3rd overall pick and that we aren't the Jacksonville Jaguars.

[WagonCircler]

No I get that, but come on that's a little misleading. I'm not a fan of the move, but it has absolutely nothing to do with losing this year's first. That is completely missing the point, or throwing something on top to make the argument seem better. I think we agree, the argument doesn't need any misleading information to be a clearly risky (borderline crazy) move.

It's really not misleading at all. It's math.

It's not that they "lost" the picks, it's that they spent them. The sum total of what they spent was 2 firsts and a 4th. The sum of what they gained was one player.

Did anyone, at the end of last year, think 'If we just had another fast, 6' tall WR, we would have DEFINITELY made the playoffs'?

I didn't. I still don't.

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Atlanta have up two 1sts, a second and two 4ths for Julio jones. I hope Watkins turns out as good.

Atlanta has a burgeoning franchise QB.

We don't.

[WagonCircler]

Plays bigger than his size just means he plays bigger than a good-sized receiver..

No, it means that he doesn't have great size. That's a fact. The rest is just hopeful thinking.

[wmoz11]

It's really not misleading at all. It's math.

It's not that they "lost" the picks, it's that they spent them. The sum total of what they spent was 2 firsts and a 4th. The sum of what they gained was one player.

Did anyone, at the end of last year, think 'If we just had another fast, 6' tall WR, we would have DEFINITELY made the playoffs'?

I didn't. I still don't.

Serious question, not trying to be a dick, but have you seen Sammy Watkins play? He's unbelievable. He was the second he stepped onto the field as a freshman for Clemson. One of the most dynamic WRs in the nation since day 1. He's incredible. 82 catches as a TRUE FRESHMAN.

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No, it means that he doesn't have great size. That's a fact. The rest is just hopeful thinking.

So, is he "smallish" or does he "not have great size?" Big difference. I never said he was a huge WR.

[WagonCircler]

Serious question, not trying to be a dick, but have you seen Sammy Watkins play? He's unbelievable. He was the second he stepped onto the field as a freshman for Clemson. One of the most dynamic WRs in the nation since day 1. He's incredible. 82 catches as a TRUE FRESHMAN.

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So, is he "smallish" or does he "not have great size?" Big difference. I never said he was a huge WR.

I don't care if he's there love child of Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald. He's still a ****ing Wide Receiver who now has a ****ty QB throwing to him, and now we have a HIGHLY diminished chance of getting a real QB for many years, thanks to the RIDICULOUS price we paid for a Wide Receiver.


Ramses Barden WR 28 6-6 224 5 Cal Poly-S.L.O.
81 Marcus Easley WR 26 6-2 217 3 Connecticut
18 Kevin Elliott WR 25 6-3 205 3 Florida A&M
88 Marquise Goodwin WR 23 5-9 179 2 Texas
11 T.J. Graham WR 24 5-11 188 3 North Carolina State
15 Chris Hogan WR 25 6-1 220 2 Monmouth (N.J.)
13 Steve Johnson WR 27 6-2 207 7 Kentucky
17 Brandon Kaufman WR 23 6-5 215 1 Eastern Washington
14 Cordell Roberson WR 23 6-4 205 1 Stephen F. Austin St.
-- Chris Summers WR 24 6-5 215 1 Liberty
19 Mike Williams WR 26 6-2 212 5 Syracuse
10 Robert Woods WR 22 6-0 190 2 USC


He's the THIRTEENTH WIDE RECEIVER on the Bills roster, and a 6'1" he's well into the lower third.

We just gave a King's ransom for a WR, and we have no QB.

Mike Evans is 6'5" 225 lbs.

Now, I would not have wanted to draft ANY WR in the first round, but at least adding a 6'5" guy (in the 9th slot) would have been less damaging. But giving up next year's first AND fourth and this year's first? Off the charts ridiculous.

[BuffaloRedleg]

It's really not misleading at all. It's math.

It's not that they "lost" the picks, it's that they spent them. The sum total of what they spent was 2 firsts and a 4th. The sum of what they gained was one player.

Did anyone, at the end of last year, think 'If we just had another fast, 6' tall WR, we would have DEFINITELY made the playoffs'?

I didn't. I still don't.


I see what you mean. My mind works different, but I guess we're talking about the same thing.

I'm disappointed, but I guess a little excited I'm not going to lie. I see what you are saying about him being "undersized" but I think if we were drafting 4th I'd be happy with the pick, that is the frame of mind I'm using. He's an electric player and in my opinion the safest/best pick in the draft other than Mack.

I'm mostly excited that there is NO EXCUSE for EJ this year. If he is injured, he's done. If he can't play, he's done.

Would you feel better if we went OT in 2nd and snagged Murray/Metterburger? I would. I'd feel a lot better. Right now that next 1st just crushes my spirit to no end, but if we had a QB project I'd feel a bit better.

I know I'm just trying my best to be happy about this. I'm struggling.

[wmoz11]

I don't care if he's there love child of Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald. He's still a ****ing Wide Receiver who now has a ****ty QB throwing to him, and now we have a HIGHLY diminished chance of getting a real QB for many years, thanks to the RIDICULOUS price we paid for a Wide Receiver.

Well, this hopefully makes EJ a lot better. I'm not nearly as down on Manuel as you appear to be, so I have a different perspective. Even saying that, you don't save picks so you can hopefully pick someone better than you have right now. You pick guys to make who you believe in, and clearly the FO believes in Manuel quite a bit, and currently have on the roster, better.

Also, if we were to ditch EJ this soon without giving him a chance to develop (remember, he wasn't a top-5 or even top-10 pick) then you've wasted one of those 1sts you love so much. And who can guarantee the next QB we draft in the 1st round will be any better?

[BuffaloRedleg]

Well, this hopefully makes EJ a lot better. I'm not nearly as down on Manuel as you appear to be, so I have a different perspective. Even saying that, you don't save picks so you can hopefully pick someone better than you have right now. You pick guys to make who you believe in, and clearly the FO believes in Manuel quite a bit, and currently have on the roster, better.

I've learned a bit and I believe that QBs make WRs and OLs better, OLs make QBs better, and WRs don't need to be great they just need to be good enough.

[WagonCircler]

Well, this hopefully makes EJ a lot better. I'm not nearly as down on Manuel as you appear to be, so I have a different perspective. Even saying that, you don't save picks so you can hopefully pick someone better than you have right now. You pick guys to make who you believe in, and clearly the FO believes in Manuel quite a bit, and currently have on the roster, better.

Also, if we were to ditch EJ this soon without giving him a chance to develop (remember, he wasn't a top-5 or even top-10 pick) then you've wasted one of those 1sts you love so much. And who can guarantee the next QB we draft in the 1st round will be any better?

No, you don't WASTE picks. They wasted a pick reaching for EJ, who wasn't even projected to be a first rounder, now they've severely compounded that error by wasting another 1st round pick.

If Sammy Watkins fell to us at #9, I could live with the pick. But to sacrifice what we did? Insane.

[The last buffalo fan]

I don't care if he's there love child of Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald. He's still a ****ing Wide Receiver who now has a ****ty QB throwing to him, and now we have a HIGHLY diminished chance of getting a real QB for many years, thanks to the RIDICULOUS price we paid for a Wide Receiver.


Ramses Barden WR 28 6-6 224 5 Cal Poly-S.L.O.
81 Marcus Easley WR 26 6-2 217 3 Connecticut
18 Kevin Elliott WR 25 6-3 205 3 Florida A&M
88 Marquise Goodwin WR 23 5-9 179 2 Texas
11 T.J. Graham WR 24 5-11 188 3 North Carolina State
15 Chris Hogan WR 25 6-1 220 2 Monmouth (N.J.)
13 Steve Johnson WR 27 6-2 207 7 Kentucky
17 Brandon Kaufman WR 23 6-5 215 1 Eastern Washington
14 Cordell Roberson WR 23 6-4 205 1 Stephen F. Austin St.
-- Chris Summers WR 24 6-5 215 1 Liberty
19 Mike Williams WR 26 6-2 212 5 Syracuse
10 Robert Woods WR 22 6-0 190 2 USC


He's the THIRTEENTH WIDE RECEIVER on the Bills roster, and a 6'1" he's well into the lower third.

We just gave a King's ransom for a WR, and we have no QB.

Mike Evans is 6'5" 225 lbs.

Now, I would not have wanted to draft ANY WR in the first round, but at least adding a 6'5" guy (in the 9th slot) would have been less damaging. But giving up next year's first AND fourth and this year's first? Off the charts ridiculous.

I think the Bucs took him with the 7th pick.

[WagonCircler]

I think the Bucs took him with the 7th pick.

I know, I'm just saying, as a hypothetical, size-wise, I could see a 6"5" guy added to corps of smallish WRs. And like I said, I could live with spending ONE first round pick on Watkins. But two? And a 4th? No freaking bueno.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I will say this as well, one positive is the team is actually going after who they want. I may not like what they are doing all the time, but at least it isn't the peepee old days complaining about people not wanting to come to Buffalo or sitting around waiting for the world to come to them.

The team gives us no questions about who they want. At least we don't have to argue about a bunch of maybes. In a weird way a really appreciate and respect that.

[Luisito23]

I could live with spending ONE first round pick on Watkins. But two?


In what world is it TWO first round picks?

We gave up next year's 1st. and swapped picks this year.

People need to stop saying two 1st. like if it was true.

[Novacane]

Maybe the worst move since drafting Maybin. Since it will cost two 1st round picks and a 4th.


Eh. 50/50 chance next years #1 would of been a bust pick anyway. If Watkins pans out I don't care about next years #1.

[Figster]

I've been wanting an elite WR it seems like forever,


what a bold move, and I love it,


we got our Julio Jones!:star:

[WagonCircler]

In what world is it TWO first round picks?

We gave up next year's 1st. and swapped picks this year.

People need to stop saying two 1st. like if it was true.[/QUOTE

In this world:

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3943916]When the draft started, we had this year's 1st pick, next year's 1st and 4th picks.

Now, we have one player, but we no longer have this year's 1st pick, next year's 1st and 4th picks.


At the end of the day, we used two first round draft choices and a fourth, on ONE player.

At the end of the same day, the Cleveland Browns have:

Justin Gilbert
Johnny Manziell
A first round draft choice next year
A fourth round choice next year.

They also keep their first next year and their fourth next year.

We got ONE GUY.

[Parzival]

I don't care if he's there love child of Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald. He's still a ****ing Wide Receiver who now has a ****ty QB throwing to him, and now we have a HIGHLY diminished chance of getting a real QB for many years, thanks to the RIDICULOUS price we paid for a Wide Receiver.


Ramses Barden WR 28 6-6 224 5 Cal Poly-S.L.O.
81 Marcus Easley WR 26 6-2 217 3 Connecticut
18 Kevin Elliott WR 25 6-3 205 3 Florida A&M
88 Marquise Goodwin WR 23 5-9 179 2 Texas
11 T.J. Graham WR 24 5-11 188 3 North Carolina State
15 Chris Hogan WR 25 6-1 220 2 Monmouth (N.J.)
13 Steve Johnson WR 27 6-2 207 7 Kentucky
17 Brandon Kaufman WR 23 6-5 215 1 Eastern Washington
14 Cordell Roberson WR 23 6-4 205 1 Stephen F. Austin St.
-- Chris Summers WR 24 6-5 215 1 Liberty
19 Mike Williams WR 26 6-2 212 5 Syracuse
10 Robert Woods WR 22 6-0 190 2 USC


He's the THIRTEENTH WIDE RECEIVER on the Bills roster, and a 6'1" he's well into the lower third.

We just gave a King's ransom for a WR, and we have no QB.

Mike Evans is 6'5" 225 lbs.

Now, I would not have wanted to draft ANY WR in the first round, but at least adding a 6'5" guy (in the 9th slot) would have been less damaging. But giving up next year's first AND fourth and this year's first? Off the charts ridiculous.

Um, how? So we possibly miss out on a first round QB next year. One year is not "many".

[WagonCircler]

Um, how? So we possibly miss out on a first round QB next year. One year is not "many".

How, what?

Did you read the post?

It's pretty self explanatory.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Let's not forget that in the last two years, the Bills FO has managed to snag Jerry Hughes for a roster detritus linebacker we were going to cut anyway, Mike Williams for a 6th rounder, and Kiko Alonso essentially for free. I'm not going to judge a draft that hasn't even ended yet, nor am I going to assume there aren't more trades in the works.

That said, I would have picked Mack in that situation.

[Parzival]

How, what?

Did you read the post?

It's pretty self explanatory.

How does trading next year's first and fourth prohibit the Bills from taking a QB high in the draft for "MANY" years? I guess I'm missing something. I admit, I feel like we gave up a lot, and am not convinced it was the right move.

But at the maximum, it means we can't draft a QB in the first round NEXT year. We still have a first in '16 don't we? Plus, who knows if there's a guy worth taking where we draft in the first next year anyway. The Andrew Luck's of the world are few and far between.

[Parzival]

Let's not forget that in the last two years, the Bills FO has managed to snag Jerry Hughes for a roster detritus linebacker we were going to cut anyway, Mike Williams for a 6th rounder, and Kiko Alonso essentially for free. I'm not going to judge a draft that hasn't even ended yet, nor am I going to assume there aren't more trades in the works.

That said, I would have picked Mack in that situation.

Would have LOVED Mack there. But I've been a big fan of Watkins too. There is a lot of draft to still play out. I think we focus on O and D line help in the mid rounds, and maybe even a QB like Murray or Boyd in the mid-late rounds as back up insurance.

[WagonCircler]

How does trading next year's first and fourth prohibit the Bills from taking a QB high in the draft for "MANY" years? I guess I'm missing something. I admit, I feel like we gave up a lot, and am not convinced it was the right move.

But at the maximum, it means we can't draft a QB in the first round NEXT year. We still have a first in '16 don't we? Plus, who knows if there's a guy worth taking where we draft in the first next year anyway. The Andrew Luck's of the world are few and far between.

It precludes the Bills from HAVING a franchise QB for several years. They won't get one in the first round next year, they no longer have a pick. The year after that, they will likely need to draft a RB in round one, but even if they draft a QB, he won't be ready until another year after that.

Whaley and Brandon spent WAY too much house money trying to save their own asses, and they gambled with the next FO's currency.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It precludes the Bills from HAVING a franchise QB for several years. They won't get one in the first round next year, they no longer have a pick. The year after that, they will likely need to draft a RB in round one, but even if they draft a QB, he won't be ready until another year after that.

Whaley and Brandon spent WAY too much house money trying to save their own asses, and they gambled with the next FO's currency.

Why?

[WagonCircler]

Why?


Because they won't re-sign Spiller.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Because they won't re-sign Spiller.

Sure, but that doesn't mean we compound the mistake with another first round halfback.

[Parzival]

I think first round RB's are a thing of the past. At least for the near future.

[Fatwhite02]

This move, this pick, comes down to one thing. Making the playoffs next year.
Forget the "ifs" "should haves" "oh next year's." "If" my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. My aunt "should have" been born a man. Oh "next year" maybe she'll get a sex change.

We haven't made the playoffs in 14 years. This pick hinges on making the playoffs. Come next year if we're in the playoffs, it's a good move. If we're not, than it's bad. I think we're all in this together in making the playoffs. Life is more fun that way, at least what I remember.

I like the move, just cause I'm sick of losing. I think Sammy Watkins makes us better. Does he get us to the playoffs? I don't know. But I feel a whole hell of a lot better about the Bills today than I did yesterday.

Now only if I could figure out my aunt.

[WagonCircler]

I think first round RB's are a thing of the past. At least for the near future.

I'd rather have a first round RB than a first round WR. More touches.

And far and away I'd rather have another shot at a #1 QB next year.

New owner, new GM, new coaching staff, but no 1st round pick.

Sucks.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'd rather have a first round RB than a first round WR. More touches.

And far and away I'd rather have another shot at a #1 QB next year.

New owner, new GM, new coaching staff, but no 1st round pick.

Sucks.

Why are you assuming we can't get a first round pick? Three QBs were taken tonight. Two of them were taken with first round picks that were traded for.

[billser]

Say whAt you will but it really doesn't make sense to knock Watkins as a player. The guy, by all accounts, is by far the best wr in draft...and the best wr to come out in a while Everyone realizes he's 6 1 and it's a non factor.

Also, I'll take a 4th pick over a 9th and say 15-32nd pick anyday. I think this is what the BIlls are betting on. Watkins is projected to be a MUCH more impactful player than anyone we were going to get with the 9th pick.

[better days]

[QUOTE=Luisito23;3943956]In what world is it TWO first round picks?

We gave up next year's 1st. and swapped picks this year.

People need to stop saying two 1st. like if it was true.[/QUOTE

In this world:




At the end of the day, we used two first round draft choices and a fourth, on ONE player.

At the end of the same day, the Cleveland Browns have:

Justin Gilbert
Johnny Manziell
A first round draft choice next year
A fourth round choice next year.

They also keep their first next year and their fourth next year.

We got ONE GUY.

At the end of the day, Gilbert, Manziell, the 1st next year & the 4th next year may all be BUSTS.

IF Watkins is the Next Andre Reed, the price the Bills paid for him will be CHEAP no matter if EJ is a bust or not.

But if Watkins is mediocre the price was too high.

By all accounts Watkins was the best WR in this class. Fingers crossed.

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3943961]

At the end of the day, Gilbert, Manziell, the 1st next year & the 4th next year may all be BUSTS.

IF Watkins is the Next Andre Reed, the price the Bills paid for him will be CHEAP no matter if EJ is a bust or not.

But if Watkins is mediocre the price was too high.

By all accounts Watkins was the best WR in this class. Fingers crossed.

Hahahahahaha.

You throw out the assumption that ALL OF those players will be busts, but you conclude that Watkins will be a Hall of Famer.

A typically stupid post.

For one thing, Andre Reed would never have been a Hall of Famer without Jim Kelly, and EJ Manual is as far from Jim Kelly as we are from Australia.

[WagonCircler]

Why are you assuming we can't get a first round pick? Three QBs were taken tonight. Two of them were taken with first round picks that were traded for.

We can't get a first round pick without sacrificing more first round picks, and that's a terrible way to build a franchise.

We gave up WAYYY too much for a WR, I don't care how good he is.

And when you factor in the reality that he has a bust throwing to him, it's just laughable. It's like buying a Maserati for a paraplegic.

[better days]

[QUOTE=better days;3944002]

Hahahahahaha.

You throw out the assumption that ALL OF those players will be busts, but you conclude that Watkins will be a Hall of Famer.

A typically stupid post.

For one thing, Andre Reed would never have been a Hall of Famer without Jim Kelly, and EJ Manual is as far from Jim Kelly as we are from Australia.

LEARN TO READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said they MAY be busts.

I also said IF Watkins is the Next Andre Reed.

And I also said, If Watkins is mediocre, the price was too high.

Yours is a STUPID POST by an IDIOT that can't read.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

We can't get a first round pick without sacrificing more first round picks, and that's a terrible way to build a franchise.

Of those two traded-for first rounders I mentioned, one was traded for a bust halfback (who was a first round pick, but still it was a player trade), and the other was traded for a 2nd and 4th.


We gave up WAYYY too much for a WR, I don't care how good he is.

Of course it matters how good he is. If he blows up, all will be forgiven.


And when you factor in the reality that he has a bust throwing to him, it's just laughable. It's like buying a Maserati for a paraplegic.

I'm not sold on Manuel either, but I don't see why you have pegged our 2015 first as our only chance to replace him.

[WagonCircler]

Of those two traded-for first rounders I mentioned, one was traded for a bust halfback (who was a first round pick, but still it was a player trade), and the other was traded for a 2nd and 4th.



Of course it matters how good he is. If he blows up, all will be forgiven.



I'm not sold on Manuel either, but I don't see why you have pegged our 2015 first as our only chance to replace him.

He can't "blow up" with EJ as his QB.

[WagonCircler]

[QUOTE=WagonCircler;3944005]

LEARN TO READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said they MAY be busts.

I also said IF Watkins is the Next Andre Reed.

And I also said, If Watkins is mediocre, the price was too high.

Yours is a STUPID POST by an IDIOT that can't read.

You assumed, in your idiotic post, that FOUR NUMBER ONE DRAFT CHOICES would be busts. Meaningless, biased speculation rooted in ZERO fact.

What if Watkins is Andre Reed, also a totally meaningless hypothetical based on nothing. Seriously not even worth the energy expended on the keystrokes.

What if Elvis comes back from the dead to QB the Bills?

What if the NFL decides to use three footballs on every down, making defenders guess which is the right one?

What if you were to run onto the field with a giant straw and snort the goal line? (maybe your posts would be worth reading).

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I remember when Chris Burkett manned up about his attitude.

[Historian]

I like the boldness of the move....it says we want to win NOW. This puts a gamebreaker into an already decent receiving corps.

I don't worry so much about Manuel, as I do Spiller. With Watkins and CJ playing to their potential, this offense could be lethal, but Spiller must regain his previous form.

Plus, there are still many players left to fill needs, TE, etc.

Losing next year's #1 scares me, but Cleveland is going to need it when Johnny Douchebag falls on his face, lol.

[Historian]

One more thought: After the pick was made, and he posed with the Commish, and Deion was right there to interview him.

He kept referring to Deion Sanders as "Sir".

My wife and I were both impressed with his politeness and his respect....not because he was being interviewd by a HOFer, but because he was being interviewed by an elder.

That is generally the type of player that succeeds in the NFL: talent , yes. But respect for himself and others around him. Willingness to study hard, and learn the pro game.

I think he would have been a great addition for any team. I'm glad its us. Even at that steep price.

[YardRat]

Positives---

1. Instant starter.
2. Didn't lose picks this season.
3. Good kid.
4. High ceiling.

Negatives-

1. WR's take time to develop, even under ideal circumstances.
2. No first next year.
3. Still ignoring the offensive line, which isn't good for any skill position on that side of the ball.

I can't help getting the feeling that could be just another CJ Spiller re-wind. Can't wait to read all the *****ing about the coaches not knowing how to utilize Watkins properly.

[coastal]

The Bills got the best player in the draft.

[X-Era]

The Bills got the best player in the draft.
:clap:

He was my top player for the Bills and my top player in the Draft.

Not Clowney- I question his work ethic
Not Mack- Love him but Sammy has done more for longer and against better competition

[better days]

[QUOTE=better days;3944011]

You assumed, in your idiotic post, that FOUR NUMBER ONE DRAFT CHOICES would be busts. Meaningless, biased speculation rooted in ZERO fact.

What if Watkins is Andre Reed, also a totally meaningless hypothetical based on nothing. Seriously not even worth the energy expended on the keystrokes.

What if Elvis comes back from the dead to QB the Bills?

What if the NFL decides to use three footballs on every down, making defenders guess which is the right one?

What if you were to run onto the field with a giant straw and snort the goal line? (maybe your posts would be worth reading).

I assumed NOTHING IDIOT! Even FIRST graders know the meaning of words like may & if. But you apparently do not.

Let me spell it out for you since you are so dense.

The point of my post is NOBODY knows what the future holds.

The post I responded to listed everything Cleveland got while Buffalo only got Watkins.

Well, IF Watkins becomes a HOF player which is possible, it will be better to have him than a bunch of mediocre CRAP.

And yes, Manziel could become a HOF player & Watkins is mediocre.

And I said that is a possibility in my original post.

Come back when you learn how to read. Or better yet, don't come back.