Watkins vs Matthews vs Mack

[Oaf]

We don't have a 4-3 DE outside Mario, Mack is an elite local product (though raw).

Jake Matthews instantly makes our passing and running game better and is Bruce Matthew's son.

Both players go 5 and 6 after Buff.

I'm okay with the trade up. Go all in, playoffs or bust. Are you okay with the player?

[BertSquirtgum]

I love Sammy Watkins but I don't love the fact that the Bills used 2 1st and 1 4th round pick to get him. Yuck.

[streetkings01]

I love the trade.......it wasn't a lot to get him if he turns into AJ Green or Julio Jones.

[swiper]

I love the trade.......it wasn't a lot to get him if he turns into AJ Green or Julio Jones.

Both of those players have much better QBs throwing to them.

And you won't like watching round 1 go by next year with no pick. Guaranteed.

[The Jokeman]

I love the trade.......it wasn't a lot to get him if he turns into AJ Green or Julio Jones.

Watkins isn't 6-4. He's 6-1, he might be a cleaner Justin Blackmon.

[Crisis]

I like Watkins. I don't like selling the farm for a WR.

[Buffalogic]

Both of those players have much better QBs throwing to them.

And you won't like watching round 1 go by next year with no pick. Guaranteed.
There's not enough evidence out there to say Dalton is better than EJ. Dalton is pretty average. We will know more after this year.

[Buffalogic]

I like Watkins. I don't like selling the farm for a WR.
But was it the farm? A fourth rounder? who cares, that's probably another TJ Graham. We aren't the best at first rounders either. I'll trade 2 borderline starters for a star any day.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And you won't like watching round 1 go by next year with no pick. Guaranteed.

I'll trade a boring draft Thursday for exciting fall Sundays any time.

[The Jokeman]

But was it the farm? A fourth rounder? who cares, that's probably another TJ Graham. We aren't the best at first rounders either. I'll trade 2 borderline starters for a star any day.

It's a 1st Rounder and a 4th rounder next year.

[Crisis]

But was it the farm? A fourth rounder? who cares, that's probably another TJ Graham. We aren't the best at first rounders either. I'll trade 2 borderline starters for a star any day.

A 1st rounder next year as well.

[swiper]

There's not enough evidence out there to say Dalton is better than EJ. Dalton is pretty average. We will know more after this year.

Statement #1 - sure there is.

Statement #2 - true.

Meaning EJ Manuel isn't good. True.

- - - Updated - - -


I'll trade a boring draft Thursday for exciting fall Sundays any time.

You'd have to root for a team with a good QB then. You're not now.

[Don't Panic]

Both of those players have much better QBs throwing to them.

And you won't like watching round 1 go by next year with no pick. Guaranteed.

I respect you and all, but this has the potential to be one of the greatest crow eating posts of the last couple years.

[stuckincincy]

There's not enough evidence out there to say Dalton is better than EJ. Dalton is pretty average. We will know more after this year.

The Jury on Dalton is out. One of the idiots that called for 50 passes in Dalton's 3 playoff games is gone...OC Jay Gruden. The other idiot remains - coach-for-life Marvin Lewis.

[swiper]

I respect you and all, but this has the potential to be one of the greatest crow eating posts of the last couple years.

Not concerned one bit.

[Buffalogic]

Statement #1 - sure there is.

Statement #2 - true.

Meaning EJ Manuel isn't good. True.

- - - Updated - - -



You'd have to root for a team with a good QB then. You're not now.
I don't think anyone would disagree that Manuel was bad from what we have seen so far. The question is will he get better? I don't know that yet. He doesn't know that yet. Nobody does.

[Buffalogic]

It's a 1st Rounder and a 4th rounder next year.


A 1st rounder next year as well.


But was it the farm? A fourth rounder? who cares, that's probably another TJ Graham. We aren't the best at first rounders either. I'll trade 2 borderline starters for a star any day.

[Forward_Lateral]

Watkins is Eric Moulds, only faster.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Dalton is not better at all. He's Chad Pennington.

[Uncle Jesse]

We got the biggest offensive weapon in the draft. 2015 doesn't matter right now. It's all about this fall. When Watkins is awesome, you'll all get over losing a pick.

[Saratoga Slim]

My two cents: allmost no one thinks we'll regret taking this player. Best comparison I heard was Dez Bryant's physical game with Larry Fitgerald's attitude. I think the bust potential is very low on this guy. If he comes anywhere near his potential, we won't regret doing this. Face it, we need some stars. Also, the draft's not over, not even close. Pick up a RT the caliber of the LT we snagged in the 2nd round last year, and our offense will suddenly be pretty jacked at every position but . . . potentially QB.

Obviously a lot to give up, especially since I am fairly certain we're going to miss that 1st when we're trying to replace EJ next year. But, that's also a long way off. Maybe Stevie gets moved tonight for a 2nd or 3rd, and if need be we can package a couple and move back into the 1st next year. Also, other than Andrew Luck, I'm not sure that 1st round drafted QBs have fared any better than 2nds and 3rds in recent years. Kaepernick, Wilson, Dalton are all starters that came after the 1st.....compare that to Tannehill, Gabbert, Ponder, etc., and it's not a clear difference. My point: this trade may not totally foreclose us from scoring a good QB in 2015 if we need it.

Anyway, I'm feeling much better about this now than I did last night.

[Woodman]

The Bills just got a game changer and their 1st legit number 1 WR is quite some time.

Did it cost us anything?

Duh, but now we have a difference maker.

We still have picks and we'll hopefully add a few more players that can help push us forward.

Crying about what we gave up is nonsense.

WELCOME SAMMY WATKINS!!

[The King]

I'll trade a boring draft Thursday for exciting fall Sundays any time.
I love this quote!~

[Fletch]

My two cents: allmost no one thinks we'll regret taking this player. Best comparison I heard was Dez Bryant's physical game with Larry Fitgerald's attitude. I think the bust potential is very low on this guy.

You should do more research. Watkins doesn't have Bryant's or Fitzgerald's size.

Also, for a "big play" WR, that 14.1 career receiving average says otherwise.

If they "had to have" WR, then they should have taken Evans who is going to have a much better career in the NFL and I fail to see how a WR that averaged over 20 ypr last year and over 2 ypr more than Watkins is not a better big play WR.

There are no standout 6' WRs in recent history that led their teams anywhere in their first few years of play. The closest comparisonsare Heyward-Bey and Justin Blackmon, both of which the experts said similar things about and who went to similar offenses.

What I do know is that given Whaley's once again having to have a guy that he pays more than he should to get him, and given his statement that we'll make the playoffs this year rendering next year's 1st rounder a low round pick, if that doesn't happen he should be canned immediately. He can't keep making picks like this hoping that in five seasons one will work out.

He should be held accountable, no one should disagree with that.

[Fletch]

Also, they're counting on Watkins to "make Manuel better," but again, history tells us that that rarely happens, usually receivers, like Blackmon and Heyward-Bey, underachieve when they go to teams with sketchy QBs and QB situations.

This pick was foolish and squandered and will hurt us in the long-run, not help us. The WRs on this team were underutilized and underachieved as a direct result of Manuel, last year's "have to have this guy" pick. The same will happen this year.

[The Jokeman]

You should do more research. Watkins doesn't have Bryant's or Fitzgerald's size.

Also, for a "big play" WR, that 14.1 career receiving average says otherwise.

If they "had to have" WR, then they should have taken Evans who is going to have a much better career in the NFL and I fail to see how a WR that averaged over 20 ypr last year and over 2 ypr more than Watkins is not a better big play WR.

There are no standout 6' WRs in recent history that led their teams anywhere in their first few years of play. The closest comparisonsare Heyward-Bey and Justin Blackmon, both of which the experts said similar things about and who went to similar offenses.

What I do know is that given Whaley's once again having to have a guy that he pays more than he should to get him, and given his statement that we'll make the playoffs this year rendering next year's 1st rounder a low round pick, if that doesn't happen he should be canned immediately. He can't keep making picks like this hoping that in five seasons one will work out.

He should be held accountable, no one should disagree with that.

I could debate that Watkins could be another Torry Holt but not sure the Bills have an Isaac Bruce to pair with him. I'm on the fence on this trade as we really did well in getting a quality player that we're going to need but not sure need him in 2014 and as a result might hurt us from getting a quality guy we may need in 2015.

[Buffalogic]

To move up and get the best wide receiver in the draft for absolutely nothing in this years draft is pretty amazing. It's a great trade for us. The Pettine connection probably didn't hurt. In comparison for Julio Jones the falcons gave up I think two number 1's, a number 2, and two 4's. We did well.

If we do in fact keep Stevie, we have a serious wr corps with Watkins, Johnson, Williams, Woods. I mean that is as complete a group as any.

[Dr. Who]

This. The ones who have the biggest problem with the trade are the ones who are sure EJ is a bust. If a raw project with physical ability, leadership, and work ethic turns out well, we are in great shape. If not, we'll find someone in the second round next year. Sammy Watkins was the best offensive player in the draft. We should celebrate that he is a Bill.

[The Jokeman]

This. The ones who have the biggest problem with the trade are the ones who are sure EJ is a bust. If a raw project with physical ability, leadership, and work ethic turns out well, we are in great shape. If not, we'll find someone in the second round next year. Sammy Watkins was the best offensive player in the draft. We should celebrate that he is a Bill.

I actually have faith in EJ to do well, I liken him to Tannehill last year but you know what? The Dolphins gave Tannehill some passing weapons too last year but everything came crashing down because their O-line fell apart. The same might happen to the Bills this season yet if we land Cyrus Kouandjio or Morgan Moses today I might feel a lot better.

[bdutton]

I really do not look at this as 'giving up' two first round picks. To move up 5 spots, it cost us next year's 1st and 4th. Lets hope that 1st pick is the 32nd of the draft next year. :)

[Dr. Who]

Bitonio is a consideration at 41 as well. Three good RT prospects. I think at least one should make it to us.

[The Jokeman]

Bitonio is a consideration at 41 as well. Three good RT prospects. I think at least one should make it to us.

I don't see Bitonio as a RT he's "small" or OG sized.

[Dr. Who]

There's another thread that mentions Bitonio and some experts that seem to think he could play tackle. I've been thinking of him mainly as a guard as well, though. Moses would be my first choice, I can't spell the Alabama tackle, but Cyrus second. There's a fella named Billy Turner that is supposed to be a sleeper we could probably get in the third. Then there's the guy from McGill. I don't know if he's projected as a guard in the pros, but he played tackle. We brought him in for a visit.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

There are no standout 6' WRs in recent history that led their teams anywhere in their first few years of play.

Define your terms then. In his second year, Victor Cruz (6' 204lbs) had 1500 yds and a Super Bowl ring.


The closest comparisonsare Heyward-Bey and Justin Blackmon, both of which the experts said similar things about and who went to similar offenses.

Blackmon maybe, but DHB is a one dimensional speed merchant who was ridiculously overdrafted.

[Buffalogic]

Blackmon would be a great player if he focused on football and didn't play in Jax. The book isn't closed on him, he has immense talent.

[WagonCircler]

But was it the farm? A fourth rounder? who cares, that's probably another TJ Graham. We aren't the best at first rounders either. I'll trade 2 borderline starters for a star any day.

WTF??????

They spent TWO first rounders and a fourth rounder.

I can understand some of the more dense people around here failing to grasp that they spent that, but to totally ignore the other first?

Wow.

[Dr. Who]

Yes, they traded what turned out to be Gilbert (maybe technically Barr if you look at the nine spot as determinative) plus next year's first and fourth for Watkins. 3 for 1. If that one is elite and the other three are, say, 2 good players and one average (fourth rounder), it is plausibly worth it. I like the gamble, personally. I can see how others would disagree.