This team has spent 6 draft picks over 3 drafts on WR

[OpIv37]

2014 1st, 2015 1st and 4th on Watkins
2013 2nd on Woods
2013 3rd on Goodwin
Traded 2014 7th for M. Williams

We have a questionable OL and a questionable QB. It's completely insane to devote that many resources to WR when we don't even know if we can get them the ball.

More importantly, we just bet the farm on EJ because there is ZERO chance we find a different starting QB before 2016.

Don't get me wrong. I like Watkins as a player and he fills a hole. I just don't like how we obtained him. If EJ's a bust, this move will literally set the franchise back 2 years.

[justasportsfan]

If Ej busts this season, the next guy has all the weapons ready.

[TacklingDummy]

2 years? Try 5 or more.

QBs make the receiver.

Robert Woods would be a great receiver with a better QB.

[BuffaloRedleg]

WRs are the new RBs. Most elite teams don't have elite ones. They spend their money elsewhere, on QBs, OLs, DLs etc.

[BLeonard]

Williams was for a 6th...

I said in another thread that I normally agree with getting O-Line help in the early rounds, but it's obvious that the Bills aren't going to retain O-Linemen even when they do draft them in the early rounds (Levitre). Hell, they couldn't even be bothered to sign Levitre's backup, Rinehart...

If they aren't gonna retain them (while fans are always saying that they "cost too much") there's no sense in drafting them in the early rounds, IMO.

-Bill

[Turf]

I am more worried about our offensive Coordinator.

[BLeonard]

If Ej busts this season, the next guy has all the weapons ready.

Problem is, the Bills wouldn't be able to get the "next guy" until 2016... I'm about betting that's where OP's 2 years is coming from.

-Bill

[Don't Panic]

The point is valid. There is a lot that has to be reckoned for if EJ busts. You have to think the Dougs have put their future on the line. All that said, I love it. Why the F not? What was the alternative? Lewan and a mid round pick next year? Roll those dice Dougs... roll em big.

[SpikedLemonade]

This WR strategy worked for the Lions under Matt Millen.

In any event, stop complaining and join the homers who say be happy that at least we still have a NFL team in Buffalo.

Better to have a small dick than no dick at all.

[MTBillsFan]

I have faith in Whaley! I can't wait for the Bills to run 4 and 5 wide sets. Watkins, Williams, Woods, Spiller, Goodwin/Johnson...yikes!

[BLeonard]

You have to think the Dougs have put their future on the line.

Roll those dice Dougs... roll em big.

If it doesn't improve in 2014, especially with a new owner coming in, they might not be here in 2015... Meaning they wouldn't have to deal with not having a 1st rounder... The Bills still will, though.

You think it's hard to get good front office people in Buffalo now, how many GMs/Coaches worth a damn are gonna want to come into a situation where they don't even have a first round pick, thanks to the "previous regime"...?

It's a lot easier to "roll the dice" when it's potentially not your money that hinges on the roll.

-Bill

[ICRockets]

Why is everybody assuming there's no way a QB drops to us in Round 2 next year if necessary?

[The last buffalo fan]

Why is everybody assuming there's no way a QB drops to us in Round 2 next year if necessary?

How about a good prospect this year?

[Scumbag College]

The Bills have to take a chance.

I'm just happy that the Bills are bringing in talent. We were trotting out Easley, Graham, Hogan, etc as WRs. Now we have potentially a lineup of Watkins, Woods, Stevie, Mike Williams, and Spiller/Fred Jackson coming out of the backfield. I say that lineup causes problems for other teams, and a 5 yard dump off could turn into a 50 yard run and catch with those guys.

[BLeonard]

Why is everybody assuming there's no way a QB drops to us in Round 2 next year if necessary?

Because, the Bills will probably need that pick to replace CJ Spiller...

-Bill

[justasportsfan]

Problem is, the Bills wouldn't be able to get the "next guy" until 2016... I'm about betting that's where OP's 2 years is coming from.

-Bill

there could be qb's from FA'cy.

[jimmifli]

At least we're all in.

IF this blows up and EJ ****s the bed, next season we get even worse, maybe with a scrub QB. Rock ****ing bottom. And a good chance at top pick in 2016.

I like it better than being safe. Hedging your bets is for pussies.

[BLeonard]

a 5 yard dump off could turn into a 50 yard run and catch with those guys.

Too bad that Trent Edwards is in Oakland, huh...?

-Bill

[OpIv37]

Why is everybody assuming there's no way a QB drops to us in Round 2 next year if necessary?
Because a) second round starting QB's are rare, and b) when they do fall to us,the FO passes.

[BLeonard]

there could be qb's from FA'cy.

Have you seen the QB's that the Bills have picked up in Free Agency in recent years...? Might as well go all Wildcat and have Fred Jackson at QB...

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

Too bad that Trent Edwards is in Oakland, huh...?

-Bill

Why, KneeJ made Captain Checkdown look like he was throwing bombs.

[The Jokeman]

Williams was for a 6th...

I said in another thread that I normally agree with getting O-Line help in the early rounds, but it's obvious that the Bills aren't going to retain O-Linemen even when they do draft them in the early rounds (Levitre). Hell, they couldn't even be bothered to sign Levitre's backup, Rinehart...

If they aren't gonna retain them (while fans are always saying that they "cost too much") there's no sense in drafting them in the early rounds, IMO.

-Bill

Unless you have to replace the one you lose. See what we've done with RBs since drafting Travis Henry.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Why is everybody assuming there's no way a QB drops to us in Round 2 next year if necessary?

This is something I've been tossing around and it exemplifies the frustration vs positivity that exists in my brain with this team.

My positive side says next year if EJ doesn't work out we can draft a guy who has a medium ceiling and have all the tools around him in place. We also could (and should) take Aaron Murray/ Metterburger later. That would make me happier. I'm also pretty excited about having arguably the most complete player in the draft, can't argue with that. ANd if EJ does work out holy **** that is a potent offense AND defense.

The negative side just can't get over that 1st round pick. I mean, if EJ gets injured or stinks (which lets face it, can you blame a Bills fan for being wired this way?) we could be sacrificing a top 5 pick. We could be sacrificing the #1 pick in the draft hypothetically! That's just a too much.

We are all wired to be cautious so you can't blame us for being concerned about that #1 next year. We've all seen this movie before.

[ICRockets]

Because a) second round starting QB's are rare, and b) when they do fall to us,the FO passes.

a) not as rare as they used to be. Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Drew Brees, Geno Smith, Andy Dalton, Matt Schaub, Terrelle Pryor, Nick Foles....none of them were 1st round picks. Brady/Wilson/Kaep/Brees/Dalton/Foles were 6 of the top QBs in the league last year.

b) utterly, completely, incomprehensibly irrelevant. Aside from Russ Brandon, the entire rest of this front office was not in charge until last season, wherein we drafted a QB in the first round. Not to mention, if we are in a position to be needing a QB next season we will most likely have a completely new front office.

[BLeonard]

Unless you have to replace the one you lose. See what we've done with RBs since drafting Travis Henry.

Well, they lost Levitre because they didn't want to pay him... They lost Rinehart because, apparently, they didn't want to pay him either.

Why draft a guy in the early rounds, if you're never gonna pay players at that position? If they'd have paid a draft pick that turned out to be a good one now and again, we wouldn't have to have the same discussion about needing help on the offensive line EVERY DAMN YEAR.

-Bill

[ICRockets]

How about a good prospect this year?

Yep, late round guys like Aaron Murray or Zach Mettenburger are totally viable options in the 5th or 7th round.

[BLeonard]

a) not as rare as they used to be. Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Drew Brees, Geno Smith, Andy Dalton, Matt Schaub, Terrelle Pryor, Nick Foles....none of them were 1st round picks. Brady/Wilson/Kaep/Brees/Dalton/Foles were 6 of the top QBs in the league last year.

Doesn't Russell Wilson prove OP's point, though...? He was there in Rd 3, when the Bills traded up for TJ Graham... He would have still been there had the Bills stayed put at 71, as Wilson wasn't picked until 75... Foles went at 88

Wilson has a Super Bowl ring, while Graham might not even make the team, pending on how the WR picture shakes out.

Perfect example, IMO: Wilson fell to the Bills, the Bills passed. Hell, the Bills even traded up and still didn't draft him. Same thing with Foles.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

a) not as rare as they used to be. Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Drew Brees, Geno Smith, Andy Dalton, Matt Schaub, Terrelle Pryor, Nick Foles....none of them were 1st round picks. Brady/Wilson/Kaep/Brees/Dalton/Foles were 6 of the top QBs in the league last year.

b) utterly, completely, incomprehensibly irrelevant. Aside from Russ Brandon, the entire rest of this front office was not in charge until last season, wherein we drafted a QB in the first round. Not to mention, if we are in a position to be needing a QB next season we will most likely have a completely new front office.
Whaley was here. He wasn't in charge but he was part of the process. And let's face it- Whaley mortgaging the future with his very first draft pick isn't exactly reason for confidence.

[ICRockets]

Whaley was here. He wasn't in charge but he was part of the process. And let's face it- Whaley mortgaging the future with his very first draft pick isn't exactly reason for confidence.

You stopped saying relevant words after that.

[ICRockets]

Doesn't Russell Wilson prove OP's point, though...? He was there in Rd 3, when the Bills traded up for TJ Graham... He would have still been there had the Bills stayed put at 71, as Wilson wasn't picked until 75... Foles went at 88

Wilson has a Super Bowl ring, while Graham might not even make the team, pending on how the WR picture shakes out.

Perfect example, IMO: Wilson fell to the Bills, the Bills passed. Hell, the Bills even traded up and still didn't draft him. Same thing with Foles.

-Bill

Doesn't prove his point at all, seeing as my point is that none of the people who drafted EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins had control over the Bills when they passed on Russell Wilson.

Doug Whaley and Doug Marrone MIGHT have screwed the pooch in their first 2 years with real, genuine influence over the Bills player personnel. But believing they did so based predominantly on the performance of their predecessors is irrational and devoid of logic.

[djjimkelly]

Why is everybody assuming there's no way a QB drops to us in Round 2 next year if necessary?

who's to say we dont take one this year in a later round there will be some talent around in the 3rd and 4th mettenberger murray or savage

[alohabillsfan]

If the bills don't take a QB in the next 2 rounds and are content with the most important position in the game being manned with an often injured mediocre starter and an undrafted back up, then that tells you the incompetence of the front office in managing this team. It's called depth and the bills need it!

[Forward_Lateral]

Yep, late round guys like Aaron Murray or Zach Mettenburger are totally viable options in the 5th or 7th round.

Aaron Murray will be the steal of the draft.

[The Popcorn]

2014 1st, 2015 1st and 4th on Watkins
2013 2nd on Woods
2013 3rd on Goodwin
Traded 2014 7th for M. Williams

We have a questionable OL and a questionable QB. It's completely insane to devote that many resources to WR when we don't even know if we can get them the ball.

More importantly, we just bet the farm on EJ because there is ZERO chance we find a different starting QB before 2016.

Don't get me wrong. I like Watkins as a player and he fills a hole. I just don't like how we obtained him. If EJ's a bust, this move will literally set the franchise back 2 years.


I don't see anything wrong with this. Whaley went out and got the weapons needed for EJ. There should be no excuses. The front office did their job. Now it's time for EJ to do his. However, this negative attitude towards EJ on this board seems to be concern. Instead of *****ing about his lackluster rookie season, you Bills fans should be getting behind him. Some of the greatest QBs of all time had a worse rookie season than EJ.

The OL should be addressed tonight with one of the picks. Well, I hope they do. The draft seems deep so it wouldn't be a bad thing if they addressed on Day 3. I'm sure we'll have people complaining about that as well.

[OpIv37]

You stopped saying relevant words after that.

It's quite clear that you are trying to convince yourself and not me. Whaley was involved in a lot of bad choices by this team- deal with it.

[OpIv37]

I don't see anything wrong with this. Whaley went out and got the weapons needed for EJ. There should be no excuses. The front office did their job. Now it's time for EJ to do his. However, this negative attitude towards EJ on this board seems to be concern. Instead of *****ing about his lackluster rookie season, you Bills fans should be getting behind him. Some of the greatest QBs of all time had a worse rookie season than EJ.

The OL should be addressed tonight with one of the picks. Well, I hope they do. The draft seems deep so it wouldn't be a bad thing if they addressed on Day 3. I'm sure we'll have people complaining about that as well.
You don't see anything wrong with spending all our draft picks on wr's when we have a questionable OL and QB, plus a bunch of other holes? Wow.

And "get behind EJ"? What does that mean exactly? No one wants the kid to fail- we just have our doubts, justifiably so. And the team needs to be prepared for the possibility that he may fail, and trading next year's first rounder is doing the complete opposite of that.

As far as the OL- yeah people are complaining. Why? Because drafting skill positions high and linemen low is not a winning formula. Look at teams like us, Detroit, Cleveland....

[Dr. Lecter]

Whaley was here. He wasn't in charge but he was part of the process. And let's face it- Whaley mortgaging the future with his very first draft pick isn't exactly reason for confidence.

Mortgaging the future?

Holy Hyperbole.

Jesus. The team makes a bold move for a change to acquire an elite talent instead of doing what they usually do and people are still enraged.

Take a chance for a change.

[Dr. Lecter]

You don't see anything wrong with spending all our draft picks on wr's when we have a questionable OL and QB, plus a bunch of other holes? Wow.

And "get behind EJ"? What does that mean exactly? No one wants the kid to fail- we just have our doubts, justifiably so. And the team needs to be prepared for the possibility that he may fail, and trading next year's first rounder is doing the complete opposite of that.

As far as the OL- yeah people are complaining. Why? Because drafting skill positions high and linemen low is not a winning formula. Look at teams like us, Detroit, Cleveland....

Wood and Glenn were low picks? And they might be drafting one today.

BTW, Seattle starting lineman were drafted 1st, 1st, practice squad guy who was a 5th round pick, 2nd round, and 7th round.

Two low picks there too.

[Historian]

Everyone's forgetting Thad Lewis too.

I think if EJ fails or is injured, he can be the guy.

Go ahead, fire away.

[Jan Reimers]

Mortgaging the future?

Holy Hyperbole.

Jesus. The team makes a bold move for a change to acquire an elite talent instead of doing what they usually do and people are still enraged.

Take a chance for a change.
I'm totally with you, Doc. It seems that after 14 years of absolute futility, Bills' fans would welcome a bold move to give us a game changing player. Spikes and Williams were gambles in free agency, and now we make a gutsy move with Watkins.

I love Whaley's attitude of going for the playoffs NOW, and the Hell with next year. Next year has been a nightmare since the year 2000. Let's go for it THIS YEAR.

[The Popcorn]

You don't see anything wrong with spending all our draft picks on wr's when we have a questionable OL and QB, plus a bunch of other holes? Wow.

And "get behind EJ"? What does that mean exactly? No one wants the kid to fail- we just have our doubts, justifiably so. And the team needs to be prepared for the possibility that he may fail, and trading next year's first rounder is doing the complete opposite of that.

As far as the OL- yeah people are complaining. Why? Because drafting skill positions high and linemen low is not a winning formula. Look at teams like us, Detroit, Cleveland....


No. WR is important in todays game. Having a 7th round WR as your best WR is more questionable to me.


Yeah, nobody wants to see him fail but I don't see any positive signs of support either. I guess there's too many Debbie Downers in here to see it.


The Bills OL isn't too bad but needs improvement. Glenn and Wood aren't your low picks from the draft. The Williams kid is a former 1st round pick. This draft should take care of the RT need.

[OpIv37]

Mortgaging the future?

Holy Hyperbole.

Jesus. The team makes a bold move for a change to acquire an elite talent instead of doing what they usually do and people are still enraged.

Take a chance for a change.

It's not the time to take a chance. Too many question marks, too many holes.

[OpIv37]

I'm totally with you, Doc. It seems that after 14 years of absolute futility, Bills' fans would welcome a bold move to give us a game changing player. Spikes and Williams were gambles in free agency, and now we make a gutsy move with Watkins.

I love Whaley's attitude of going for the playoffs NOW, and the Hell with next year. Next year has been a nightmare since the year 2000. Let's go for it THIS YEAR.

Watkins is only a game changer if a) EJ can get him the ball and b) the OL can protect EJ long enough for him to have an opportunity to get him the ball. Those are two huge "if's".

[The Jokeman]

Because, the Bills will probably need that pick to replace CJ Spiller...

-Bill

Maybe part of the appeal for Watkins is he's a fellow Clemson Tiger which may influence CJ to stay. Toss in this was the second straight year a RB wasn't taken in the 1st Round so RBs aren't as highly thought of as they used to be.

[ICRockets]

Watkins is only a game changer if a) EJ can get him the ball and b) the OL can protect EJ long enough for him to have an opportunity to get him the ball. Those are two huge "if's".

So what you're saying is you've seen literally ZERO game film on Sammy Watkins. If you go to jimmi's thread with his cutups, you'll notice a trend in how Clemson used him. Takes no time at all to get Sammy the ball the way Clemson did.

[ICRockets]

It's quite clear that you are trying to convince yourself and not me. Whaley was involved in a lot of bad choices by this team- deal with it.

I'm entirely convinced that I love this move. I have no problem with it even if we fail to make the playoffs this season. We got THE BEST offensive talent in the draft this year, hands down, and people like you are still *****ing. It's pretty pathetic.

- - - Updated - - -


It's quite clear that you are trying to convince yourself and not me. Whaley was involved in a lot of bad choices by this team- deal with it.

I'm entirely convinced that I love this move. I have no problem with it even if we fail to make the playoffs this season. We got THE BEST offensive talent in the draft this year, hands down, and people like you are still *****ing. It's pretty pathetic.

[ICRockets]

It's not the time to take a chance. Too many question marks, too many holes.

So then why are you even posting? Why are you bothering with anything Bills-related if you're this convinced the team has NO HOPE in 2014?

I'm serious, Op. That's a disturbing cognitive dissonance happening if you compulsively can't stop engaging in conversation about something you are so negative about. Take a step back, my friend.

[Dr. Lecter]

It's not the time to take a chance. Too many question marks, too many holes.

Being a chicken**** all the time does not work either. Quit operation from fear all the time.

[Jan Reimers]

It's not the time to take a chance. Too many question marks, too many holes.

After 14 lifeless years, it's way past time to take a chance. We've played it timid and safe for far too long. There are question marks - with EJ's emergence, Spikes' attitude, Wiliams' behavior, et.al., and a lot of ifs - if we draft an OT tonight, or a TE, or a DE or LB or CB, but I don't see a lot of glaring holes.

And I'll take the question marks and ifs, as long as we are making bold moves intended to make us better very quickly.

I'm sick and tired of waiting.

[The Jokeman]

So what you're saying is you've seen literally ZERO game film on Sammy Watkins. If you go to jimmi's thread with his cutups, you'll notice a trend in how Clemson used him. Takes no time at all to get Sammy the ball the way Clemson did.

and look how well Tavon Austin did in college or insert another WR of choice here. The truth is most rookie WRs don't produce immediately. As it's said the transition from college WR to NFL WR is one of the hardest. Long term this could be a great deal for the Bills but for those of that think that 2014 has to be an improvement year it's hard to think we're going to improve counting on a rookie WR. As stated in another thread if we ended up giving Cleveland another top 10 pick next year then this trade was bad, if we end up giving them a pick after number 16 it's good.

[ICRockets]

and look how well Tavon Austin did in college or insert another WR of choice here. The truth is most rookie WRs don't produce immediately. As it's said the transition from college WR to NFL WR is one of the hardest. Long term this could be a great deal for the Bills but for those of that think that 2014 has to be an improvement year it's hard to think we're going to improve counting on a rookie WR. As stated in another thread if we ended up giving Cleveland another top 10 pick next year then this trade was bad, if we end up giving them a pick after number 16 it's good.

You realize Tavon was vital to the Rams' offense last season, right? You realize Keenan Allen was the Chargers' #1 WR, right? That DeAndre Hopkins made the clutch plays that led to the Texans' 2nd and final win of the season in Week 2? Mike Williams with the Bucs his rookie season. TY Hilton. Rob Gronkowski. AJ Green. The list of rookie receivers who make big impacts is not short.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's not the time to take a chance. Too many question marks, too many holes.

BS. Besides the need for an OT and maybe a Guard (if you don't think Williams can be the guy, which I do), what major holes do they have that would've been worth the 9th pick?

What future did he mortgage? A bunch of 6-8 win seasons by staying status quot and just drafting the best player of need? This move, if nothing else, shows that this regime wants to win, now. 15 years of doing the same thing has got them nowhere.

Watkins is the best player in the draft. Next year's draft is a complete unknown. This was the year to make a move. You can't start looking towards next year already.

[The Jokeman]

You realize Tavon was vital to the Rams' offense last season, right? You realize Keenan Allen was the Chargers' #1 WR, right? That DeAndre Hopkins made the clutch plays that led to the Texans' 2nd and final win of the season in Week 2? Mike Williams with the Bucs his rookie season. TY Hilton. Rob Gronkowski. AJ Green. The list of rookie receivers who make big impacts is not short.

But did the Rams/Chargers or Texans have a Stevie Johnson, Mike Williams or Robert Woods on their rosters last year? This is my biggest issue with the mindset that we needed to have Watkins. While we don't have a true #1 on our roster we have some pretty good #2s and I don't see Watkins supplanting any of them as a rookie. Maybe come 2015 or 2016 he will be ready but not in 2014.

[OpIv37]

So what you're saying is you've seen literally ZERO game film on Sammy Watkins. If you go to jimmi's thread with his cutups, you'll notice a trend in how Clemson used him. Takes no time at all to get Sammy the ball the way Clemson did.

First, I could show you a highlight reel of JP Losman and make him look like a superstar. Second, just because Clemson was able to do something at the college level doesn't mean the Bills have the personnel or the talent to do it at the NFL level.

[OpIv37]

So then why are you even posting? Why are you bothering with anything Bills-related if you're this convinced the team has NO HOPE in 2014?

I'm serious, Op. That's a disturbing cognitive dissonance happening if you compulsively can't stop engaging in conversation about something you are so negative about. Take a step back, my friend.
And here we go again: complete inability to address my point so you try to make it about me. I'm not engaging in this crap again- I've addressed this dozens of times.

[OpIv37]

Being a chicken**** all the time does not work either. Quit operation from fear all the time.

False dichotomy. There is a lot of gray area between being chicken-**** and being stupid.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

WRs are the new RBs. Most elite teams don't have elite ones. They spend their money elsewhere, on QBs, OLs, DLs etc.

Really? Denver has a 1st round WR in D Thomas. Seattle just spent the farm on Percy Harvin. The Colts have Reggie Wayne. Steelers have had a plethora of borderline elite WR's... So much for that theory.

[OpIv37]

BS. Besides the need for an OT and maybe a Guard (if you don't think Williams can be the guy, which I do), what major holes do they have that would've been worth the 9th pick?

What future did he mortgage? A bunch of 6-8 win seasons by staying status quot and just drafting the best player of need? This move, if nothing else, shows that this regime wants to win, now. 15 years of doing the same thing has got them nowhere.

Watkins is the best player in the draft. Next year's draft is a complete unknown. This was the year to make a move. You can't start looking towards next year already.
Wanting to win now and having the talent to actually do it are two different things. We need OL help we are average at best at TE, we need to replace Byrd, we could use another LB, lack all-around depth and may need a QB.

No, we can't start looking toward next year already, but they have to at least consider the possibility that EJ may be a bust. If that happens, we have no first round pick next year and are completely screwed.

[Dr. Lecter]

False dichotomy. There is a lot of gray area between being chicken-**** and being stupid.


Of course there is. I never said otherwise.

But this is also far from mortgaging the future.

What is the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

They did something different and bold. Will it work? I don't know.

But staying at 9 and taking Lewan is the kind of move they have made for years.

[OpIv37]

After 14 lifeless years, it's way past time to take a chance. We've played it timid and safe for far too long. There are question marks - with EJ's emergence, Spikes' attitude, Wiliams' behavior, et.al., and a lot of ifs - if we draft an OT tonight, or a TE, or a DE or LB or CB, but I don't see a lot of glaring holes.

And I'll take the question marks and ifs, as long as we are making bold moves intended to make us better very quickly.

I'm sick and tired of waiting.
I'm sick and tired of waiting too, but if they are wrong on this, our wait just got extended significantly.

- - - Updated - - -


Of course there is. I never said otherwise.

But this is also far from mortgaging the future.

What is the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

They did something different and bold. Will it work? I don't know.

But staying at 9 and taking Lewan is the kind of move they have made for years.

Again, they could have done things differently without being so bold. There are more options than doing what we've always done and being bold.

[Dr. Lecter]

Wanting to win now and having the talent to actually do it are two different things. We need OL help we are average at best at TE, we need to replace Byrd, we could use another LB, lack all-around depth and may need a QB.

No, we can't start looking toward next year already, but they have to at least consider the possibility that EJ may be a bust. If that happens, we have no first round pick next year and are completely screwed.

Alternatively, they can go all out to help EJ succeed instead of half assing it.

And how does making this move impact any of that? They still have the same number of picks and the hole at top level talent at WR is bigger than the hole at safety and TE and is harder to fill than the RT position.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

I feel like knocking the trade, I get it, but I disagree. The Bills have been chicken ****s for so long. I am so glad they showed some balls for a change. So they are betting on EJ, so what?! They should have the sack to believe in their guy, and I admire that.

Watkins is a guy who can get you YAC which is needed. Unless the Bills were bad enough this year to go 2-14, chances are, they aren't getting the QB anyway. Mariota? Whatever. It's likely that the Bills would give EJ thru 2015 anyway.

[Dr. Lecter]

I'm sick and tired of waiting too, but if they are wrong on this, our wait just got extended significantly.

- - - Updated - - -



Again, they could have done things differently without being so bold. There are more options than doing what we've always done and being bold.
And if they are right, it just got shorter.

And they could have done other things. No doubt. But is Lewan filling a bigger hole than Watkins?

How many times have you said the Bills need elite talent? Now they get elite talent and you don't like it. And they did this without giving up anymore picks this year so they can still fill the same number of holes they would have filled regardless.

[Forward_Lateral]

Wanting to win now and having the talent to actually do it are two different things. We need OL help we are average at best at TE, we need to replace Byrd, we could use another LB, lack all-around depth and may need a QB.

No, we can't start looking toward next year already, but they have to at least consider the possibility that EJ may be a bust. If that happens, we have no first round pick next year and are completely screwed.

Every team has holes, with the exception of maybe a handful.

Could use, and all around depth players aren't normally drafted in round 1. Neither are Right Tackles.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

Wanting to win now and having the talent to actually do it are two different things. We need OL help we are average at best at TE, we need to replace Byrd, we could use another LB, lack all-around depth and may need a QB.

No, we can't start looking toward next year already, but they have to at least consider the possibility that EJ may be a bust. If that happens, we have no first round pick next year and are completely screwed.

Not disagreeing with you, but grabbing Lewan or whoever at 9 isn't a guaranteed thing. The Bills will have access to a good tackle or tight end at 41 today. They have hit on several 2nd rounders lately. They have added depth to the OL, LB, etc. "May need a QB"? Well they "may" need anything. The Patriots "may" need a QB, too. The Broncos "may" need a QB. THere are still picks to be made tonight and tomorrow. The Bills could trade down, add some extra picks, perhaps have 2 seconds. I'm not worried about next year.

If they suck this year, it'll suck. If they make the playoffs, it won't matter. There isn't a huge talent gap between the Bills and other teams in the division. In fact, I'd say the Bills could be one of the more talented groups in the division.

[The Jokeman]

And if they are right, it just got shorter.

And they could have done other things. No doubt. But is Lewan filling a bigger hole than Watkins?

How many times have you said the Bills need elite talent? Now they get elite talent and you don't like it. And they did this without giving up anymore picks this year so they can still fill the same number of holes they would have filled regardless.
If the Bills are playing for 2014 then yes Lewan is filling a bigger hole than Watkins is. As what do you expect Watkins to do this year that Mike Williams or Robert Woods couldn't do?

[Forward_Lateral]

And if they are right, it just got shorter.

And they could have done other things. No doubt. But is Lewan filling a bigger hole than Watkins?

How many times have you said the Bills need elite talent? Now they get elite talent and you don't like it. And they did this without giving up anymore picks this year so they can still fill the same number of holes they would have filled regardless.

Exactly. Right now, who cares about next year's draft. If they accomplish what they hope to accomplish, the pick will be in the bottom half of round 1 anyways.

[justasportsfan]

Typical. Another ***** just to ***** thread from OP. He whines for years about Stevie and now that we grab an dynamic wr who can turn EJ's dinks and dunks into a homerun, it's a problem.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

Another thing I just heard on WGR from Coach Sal. This is a deep draft. The Bills have been very good at picking up UDFA's. (Roby for example)

There are still several rounds left, we can easily add a starting RT or OG, depth at LB, possibly a DE. I don't feel the doom and gloom.

It's all on EJ. It was before this, it's more after this. I just think that, given that Watkins had a high % of his passes short (EJ throws short) and lead the NCAA in YAC (something the Bills lacked last year)

The only negative to this is that they traded next years picks. Worry about that next year.

[OpIv37]

Not disagreeing with you, but grabbing Lewan or whoever at 9 isn't a guaranteed thing. The Bills will have access to a good tackle or tight end at 41 today. They have hit on several 2nd rounders lately. They have added depth to the OL, LB, etc. "May need a QB"? Well they "may" need anything. The Patriots "may" need a QB, too. The Broncos "may" need a QB. THere are still picks to be made tonight and tomorrow. The Bills could trade down, add some extra picks, perhaps have 2 seconds. I'm not worried about next year.

If they suck this year, it'll suck. If they make the playoffs, it won't matter. There isn't a huge talent gap between the Bills and other teams in the division. In fact, I'd say the Bills could be one of the more talented groups in the division.

The Bills aren't making the playoffs this year no matter who they draft. If you watched the team last year, it's pretty clear that they are more than a rookie and Brandon Spikes away from the playoffs.

[OpIv37]

Typical. Another ***** just to ***** thread from OP. He whines for years about Stevie and now that we grab an dynamic wr who can turn EJ's dinks and dunks into a homerun, it's a problem.

It's not that we grabbed a WR- it's the price we paid to get him that's the problem. If you don't see that now, well, you will in time.

[Forward_Lateral]

If the Bills are playing for 2014 then yes Lewan is filling a bigger hole than Watkins is. As what do you expect Watkins to do this year that Mike Williams or Robert Woods couldn't do?

Is this a serious question? I love Robert Woods more than anyone on this board, but seriously?

[Bill Cody]

I feel like this conversation is premature. How about we wait and see what the Bills do or don't do with the rest of the draft 1st? Yes there are holes to fill but maybe they can fill some. I'm still in shock about what they did to be honest. It hasn't sunk in. I was pushing for going the other way, a trade down, get more picks. And I really hate losing next year's 1st. But on one level it is tremendously exciting. Buffalo just pulled out the driver on the short par 4.

And this guy Watkin's highlight reel is different than most other players. He's a guy you can't take your eyes off. JP Losman?? Pffff This guy is a game changer. Maybe not day 1 but soon. He's somebody to watch. And win lose or draw this team has not only been bad but DEADLY DULL for a decade. The last time the Bills were fun to watch was when Drew Bledsoe was the QB, he made plays. So although I still have some serious reservations about the team but you have to say this was all in time and I admire that. But if you're going to be all in you have to finish the drill with a solid 2nd and 3rd day in the draft. Let's wait and see.

[justasportsfan]

It's not that we grabbed a WR- it's the price we paid to get him that's the problem. If you don't see that now, well, you will in time.

I see it now. The bills have not made gutsy moves in the past. They did so now.Either ways you would fined something to ***** about. You would have whined if they played it safe.
Why don't you cry for bringing Donald Jones back?

[Dr. Lecter]

If the Bills are playing for 2014 then yes Lewan is filling a bigger hole than Watkins is. As what do you expect Watkins to do this year that Mike Williams or Robert Woods couldn't do?

Make big plays?

[Forward_Lateral]

The Bills aren't making the playoffs this year no matter who they draft. If you watched the team last year, it's pretty clear that they are more than a rookie and Brandon Spikes away from the playoffs.

There's still 6 more rounds. Plenty of talent to be had tonight. Why don't you wait and see what they do the rest of the draft? Maybe holes will be filled? I think players have been drafted in rounds 2-7 and started before. I think the Bills have actually done it once or twice too.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

**** it guys, let's just give up. The Bills will never do anything right.

[The Popcorn]

First, I could show you a highlight reel of JP Losman and make him look like a superstar. Second, just because Clemson was able to do something at the college level doesn't mean the Bills have the personnel or the talent to do it at the NFL level.

Who are we to know if they have that personnel and talent for Watkins to do the same at the NFL level? Maybe they figured out something that works to both EJ and Sammy's strengths.

[justasportsfan]

I feel like this conversation is premature.
It is a premature whine just like when OP whined about the team not fixing the OL and a few days later, the bills brought in Dockery and company.

[The Popcorn]

**** it guys, let's just give up. The Bills will never do anything right.


Getting a playmaker IS the right thing.

[The Jokeman]

Is this a serious question? I love Robert Woods more than anyone on this board, but seriously?

Yes, seriously.

[Forward_Lateral]

Make big plays?

Now they have Spiller at RB, who can take it to the house on any given play, and Watkins at WR who can do the same on the outside.

I think the offense just got scary, especially when you consider not only the talent but depth the Bills have at WR now. They went from having to start guys off of the scrap heap at WR last season to having 5, not counting TJ Graham, who still might show something.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

Getting a playmaker IS the right thing.

I was being sarcastic.

[Forward_Lateral]

Yes, seriously.

If you don't know the answer, you don't belong on a football message board. You can argue they spent too much, but you can't argue that Watkins is a legitimate playmaker who will be a starter Day 1, barring injury.

I think even OP would agree with this.

[The Jokeman]

If you don't know the answer, you don't belong on a football message board. You can argue they spent too much, but you can't argue that Watkins is a legitimate playmaker who will be a starter Day 1, barring injury.

I think even OP would agree with this.

It's called big picture and right now the big picture is we could have stayed at pick 9 and gotten a playmaking TE that we also need and still had our 1st and 4th next year.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

Man people do love to *****. I personally got the #1 guy on my wish list. I don't give a **** about mortgaging the future, THIS IS AMERICA!! THIS IS HOW WE DO IT!!!

If Watkins hits close to his potential it's worth it. The offense has tons of talent, will find a couple OL tonight and tomorrow, and also have a top running back tandem. We have a sick DL, good LB's, good corners. We need a free safety, but frankly, Jim Leonhard put up the same performance as Byrd last year. That can be found.

[Bill Cody]

It's not that we grabbed a WR- it's the price we paid to get him that's the problem. If you don't see that now, well, you will in time.

Maybe but here's something else. Think about this OP. How many draft picks have the Bills burned on bums? Busts? Scrubs? Underachievers? It's a LOOONNNNNGGG list, no? Loooonnnnngggg. The conversation on Watkins I was hearing was this guy was the safest pick in the draft, he's going to be good. So put it in perspective. We usually trade up for a bust or sit tight for a bust. If this player is as good as advertised he's a HUGE upgrade over the usual bust fare we're been eating for the past couple decades. No?

Maybe it turns out to be an overpay who knows. But pretty sure this guy isn't Maybin. Or Losman. or McCargo. Or Flowers. He's no Whitner. Or Mike Williams. When you're up to your neck in **** and the forest ranger says he'll charge you $2 to throw you a $1.50 rope you're going to quibble? Are you sure?

[Dr. Lecter]

It's called big picture and right now the big picture is we could have stayed at pick 9 and gotten a playmaking TE that we also need and still had our 1st and 4th next year.

Right.

But the playmaker at TE is not even close to this guy.

And you know he has a ton more ability than Woods. Not that Woods is a bad player. But he has nowhere near the playmaking ability of Watkins.

[The Jokeman]

Now they have Spiller at RB, who can take it to the house on any given play, and Watkins at WR who can do the same on the outside.

I think the offense just got scary, especially when you consider not only the talent but depth the Bills have at WR now. They went from having to start guys off of the scrap heap at WR last season to having 5, not counting TJ Graham, who still might show something.

Stevie Johnson was the only WR for this team to amass three consecutive 1000 yards seasons prior to last year's injury filled year and now he's a scrap heap guy? Robert Woods showed he was a solid rookie contributor. Oh and Mike Williams averaged 60 receptions his first three seasons before getting hurt last year. We don't have scrap heap WRs on this roster. I find it ironic you're quick to support TJ Graham and toss aside everyone else above him on the depth chart.

[The Jokeman]

Right.

But the playmaker at TE is not even close to this guy.

And you know he has a ton more ability than Woods. Not that Woods is a bad player. But he has nowhere near the playmaking ability of Watkins.

To me Stevie, Mike Williams, Woods & Ebron & still having our 1st and 4th round picks in 2015 > Watkins, Mike Williams, Woods & Chandler and not having our 1st and 4th Round picks in 2015.

[OpIv37]

There's still 6 more rounds. Plenty of talent to be had tonight. Why don't you wait and see what they do the rest of the draft? Maybe holes will be filled? I think players have been drafted in rounds 2-7 and started before. I think the Bills have actually done it once or twice too.

Filling holes with late round draft picks? What was that about doing the same thing over and expecting different results?

Oh, and news flash: the other 31 teams get to draft too. The only way we make the playoffs is if we reduce the talent gap between us and the teams that are better than us. If they're drafting too- and we are trading away draft picks, thus reducing opportunities to acquire new talent, that won't happen.

[Dr. Lecter]

Filling holes with late round draft picks? What was that about doing the same thing over and expecting different results?

Oh, and news flash: the other 31 teams get to draft too. The only way we make the playoffs is if we reduce the talent gap between us and the teams that are better than us. If they're drafting too- and we are trading away draft picks, thus reducing opportunities to acquire new talent, that won't happen.

Exactly.

And that is my point.

[OpIv37]

I see it now. The bills have not made gutsy moves in the past. They did so now.Either ways you would fined something to ***** about. You would have whined if they played it safe.
Why don't you cry for bringing Donald Jones back?

You are attempting to make an argument based on your assumption of how someone else would have reacted in a hypothetical situation that never actually occurred. It's complete BS and it happens far too often on this board.

[OpIv37]

Exactly.

And that is my point.

Yeah, for a whole year. Then next year, they get to add first round talent and we don't, so the gains are neutralized after one season. Brilliant.

[Forward_Lateral]

Stevie Johnson was the only WR for this team to amass three consecutive 1000 yards seasons prior to last year's injury filled year and now he's a scrap heap guy? Robert Woods showed he was a solid rookie contributor. Oh and Mike Williams averaged 60 receptions his first three seasons before getting hurt last year. We don't have scrap heap WRs on this roster. I find it ironic you're quick to support TJ Graham and toss aside everyone else above him on the depth chart.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said they have 5 good WRs now. Last year, were they not reduced to starting guys like Chris Hogan due to no depth after Johnson/Woods and Goodwin?

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Yeah, for a whole year. Then next year, they get to add first round talent and we don't, so the gains are neutralized after one season. Brilliant.

There's 364 days until round 1 of next year's NFL draft. A lot of things can happen between now and then. Looking that far ahead is stupid, and pointless.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yeah, for a whole year. Then next year, they get to add first round talent and we don't, so the gains are neutralized after one season. Brilliant.

Unless the talent this year exceeds the talent next year.

Like I said you have pointed our before they do not have elite talent. Now they added some.

[Historian]

Right.

But the playmaker at TE is not even close to this guy.

And you know he has a ton more ability than Woods. Not that Woods is a bad player. But he has nowhere near the playmaking ability of Watkins.

And Woods showed some damn fine play in his rookie season....he will only get better.

I think I would have been dissapointed with a TE at 9.

Tackle? Maybe, but not a TE.

Good value can still be found in rounds 2, 3, and 4.

[The Jokeman]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said they have 5 good WRs now. Last year, were they not reduced to starting guys like Chris Hogan due to no depth after Johnson/Woods and Goodwin?

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There's 364 days until round 1 of next year's NFL draft. A lot of things can happen between now and then. Looking that far ahead is stupid, and pointless.

Tell me what other teams are 5 deep at WR? It's excessive and not needed.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

It's 85 degrees out. Maybe you cry babies should go do something else?

[Forward_Lateral]

Tell me what other teams are 5 deep at WR? It's excessive and not needed.

Your posts are idiotic and I'm done trying to reason with you.

[Historian]

Here's what I see happening:

Watkins and Woods are wide, so SJ moves into the slot. (I always said he was never a #1, actually a #3)

That frees him up to make the best of his talents...those quick slants over the middle. On that play, he's almost unstoppable.

Either that, or they deal him for a 4th next year and get that pick back.

I think the Bills would love to keep him, but what this says, is basically any more antics or lack of concentration, and you're done here.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

If the Jets did the same move people would be *****ing that the Jets got better and we didn't.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't see how anyone can ***** that the team just got the best player in the draft.

Even if Manuel ends up being a colossal failure next year, you can sign a vet or draft a guy in round 2.

Watkins will still be here til the next QB if EJ needs to be replaced.

The draft is about getting better overall for the future not for just one season.

[The Jokeman]

Your posts are idiotic and I'm done trying to reason with you.

I'm not looking to be reasoned with. I just want someone to explain to me where Watkins fits in a need for the 2014 season? As to me I felt we had a solid top 3 WR in Stevie, Williams and Woods. Throw in Goodwin and we're actually a good 4 and you can debate that Graham is as good as a #5 you'll find on most NFL rosters.

[justasportsfan]

You are attempting to make an argument based on your assumption of how someone else would have reacted in a hypothetical situation that never actually occurred. It's complete BS and it happens far too often on this board.

Ha! How can I not assume you would whine when it's been PROVEN that no matter what the bills do you'll find something to whine about. You've whined about Stevie being the top wr and now you're whining now that the bills did something to fix that.

It isn't theoretical anymore when you've proven to do the same thing over and over again.

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It's 85 degrees out. Maybe you cry babies should go do something else?

OP hates summer. Lol.

[The Jokeman]

I don't see how anyone can ***** that the team just got the best player in the draft.

Even if Manuel ends up being a colossal failure next year, you can sign a vet or draft a guy in round 2.

Watkins will still be here til the next QB if EJ needs to be replaced.

The draft is about getting better overall for the future not for just one season.

and how does NOT having a 1st round pick or 4th round pick help us for the future? I generally hate the national media as don't think they're in tune with this team as they could be but the best line I've read is something along the lines of "I like the player just not the amount it took to get him".

[The Jokeman]

Here's what I see happening:

Watkins and Woods are wide, so SJ moves into the slot. (I always said he was never a #1, actually a #3)

That frees him up to make the best of his talents...those quick slants over the middle. On that play, he's almost unstoppable.

Either that, or they deal him for a 4th next year and get that pick back.

I think the Bills would love to keep him, but what this says, is basically any more antics or lack of concentration, and you're done here.

Great so we have a proven NFL #2 WR stuck on our bench in Mike Williams! Brilliant!

[Dr. Lecter]

Here's what I see happening:

Watkins and Woods are wide, so SJ moves into the slot. (I always said he was never a #1, actually a #3)

That frees him up to make the best of his talents...those quick slants over the middle. On that play, he's almost unstoppable.

Either that, or they deal him for a 4th next year and get that pick back.

I think the Bills would love to keep him, but what this says, is basically any more antics or lack of concentration, and you're done here.

I think a #3 is a bit harsh. He did have 3 straight 1,000 yard seasons with guys like Fitz at QB

[Mr. Pink]

and how does NOT having a 1st round pick or 4th round pick help us for the future? I generally hate the national media as don't think they're in tune with this team as they could be but the best line I've read is something along the lines of "I like the player just not the amount it took to get him".

The team hasn't had a number 1 WR since Eric Moulds. Without the trade, Watkins isn't on the Bills.

Who would you have rather had Odell Beckham Jr if they stayed put at 9?

The first round pick could hurt if EJ flames out and it's another top 10 pick but the 4th is pretty meaningless.

[ublinkwescore]

Because a) second round starting QB's are rare, and b) when they do fall to us,the FO passes.

I don't think this is quite the same front office anymore. They have been doing much better drafting lately. which is why Im still giving ej the benifit of the doubt. I am pretty sure we get a tackle, and maybe a very good rb freddie and cj were both less than 65% last season healthwise. Probably a guard too.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I think a #3 is a bit harsh. He did have 3 straight 1,000 yard seasons with guys like Fitz at QB

I wouldn't necessarily take that as a knock, the #1 and #3 perform different roles traditionally. Wes Welker has been one of the best wideouts in the league, but he would be horribly miscast as the #1.

[The Jokeman]

The team hasn't had a number 1 WR since Eric Moulds. Without the trade, Watkins isn't on the Bills.

Who would you have rather had Odell Beckham Jr if they stayed put at 9?

The first round pick could hurt if EJ flames out and it's another top 10 pick but the 4th is pretty meaningless.

No, if we stayed at 9 I was content with Ebron, Evans or Matthews/Lewan. Again I have no issues with Watkins if looking toward the future but if we don't turn things around in 2014 to be in the Wild Card discussion then we gave up a lot for a WR who still has some answers as to whether he truly be a #1 WR. I'm hoping he can be another Torry Holt but have reservations. I'll agree I'm not overly upset with the 4th Rounder but it's the 1st Rounder that could be a top 10 pick that scares me.

[DraftBoy]

But did the Rams/Chargers or Texans have a Stevie Johnson, Mike Williams or Robert Woods on their rosters last year? This is my biggest issue with the mindset that we needed to have Watkins. While we don't have a true #1 on our roster we have some pretty good #2s and I don't see Watkins supplanting any of them as a rookie. Maybe come 2015 or 2016 he will be ready but not in 2014.

Texans had Andre Johnson.

[DraftBoy]

Again, they could have done things differently without being so bold. There are more options than doing what we've always done and being bold.

How?

[DraftBoy]

If the Bills are playing for 2014 then yes Lewan is filling a bigger hole than Watkins is. As what do you expect Watkins to do this year that Mike Williams or Robert Woods couldn't do?

Stretch the field vertically and horizontally. Neither Woods or Williams has the deep speed or YAC ability of Watkins.

If you're counter is that's why we have Goodwin, then my response is only one of those two (Watkins or Goodwin) actually knows how to run a route tree and it isn't Goodwin.

[DraftBoy]

It's called big picture and right now the big picture is we could have stayed at pick 9 and gotten a playmaking TE that we also need and still had our 1st and 4th next year.

A playmaking TE that does what better than Watkins exactly? I'm not even sure he can block better than Watkins, so why the hell would you stay at 9 to pick a guy who is worse at everything when compared to Watkins?

[The Jokeman]

Texans had Andre Johnson.

Valid point. It's just maybe I'm a homer when it comes to the Bills WRs. As I thought our top 3 was pretty good. Sure Watkins makes them better and it's great we didn't have to give anything this year to make the move. I just question what kind of impact he'll have for us in 2014. I'm warming up to the idea but if we're drafting in the top 10 in 2015 then to me it was a major mistake.

[The Jokeman]

Stretch the field vertically and horizontally. Neither Woods or Williams has the deep speed or YAC ability of Watkins.

If you're counter is that's why we have Goodwin, then my response is only one of those two (Watkins or Goodwin) actually knows how to run a route tree and it isn't Goodwin.



A playmaking TE that does what better than Watkins exactly? I'm not even sure he can block better than Watkins, so why the hell would you stay at 9 to pick a guy who is worse at everything when compared to Watkins?

To me the difference between what Ebron gives us vs what Chandler gives us is significantly larger than what Watkins would give us vs what Woods or Williams could give us. Make sense? As think a group of Woods and Williams on the outside with Stevie in the slot and Ebron either on the line or split out wide (assuming we run a 3 WR 1 TE base formation) would cause a bigger matchup problems for defenses then say Watkins and Woods on the outside and Stevie in the slot and Chandler at TE

[OpIv37]

Did you even read what I wrote? I said they have 5 good WRs now. Last year, were they not reduced to starting guys like Chris Hogan due to no depth after Johnson/Woods and Goodwin?

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There's 364 days until round 1 of next year's NFL draft. A lot of things can happen between now and then. Looking that far ahead is stupid, and pointless.
Disagree. Not considering the future is stupid and short-sighted.

[OpIv37]

Unless the talent this year exceeds the talent next year.

Like I said you have pointed our before they do not have elite talent. Now they added some.

You really think that Watkins' talent exceeds what our competition is going to get talent-wise in this years first round and next years first and fourth rounds? Please.

[OpIv37]

If the Jets did the same move people would be *****ing that the Jets got better and we didn't.

Once again, an argument based on your assumption of how other people would have reacted in a situation that never actually occurred. Meaningless, speculative "argument"

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How?

Stayed put and went OL to protect EJ.

[TacklingDummy]

now that we grab an dynamic wr who can turn EJ's dinks and dunks into a homerun, it's a problem.

I thought Spiller was going to do that?

[Buffalogic]

We have been considering the future for 15 years. And we have sucked for 15 years.

It's one pick. McCargo, Maybin, Whitner, Manuel, Losman, M. Williams...It's so dreadful to mortgage that amazing history and burn down our future...

[Historian]

I think a #3 is a bit harsh. He did have 3 straight 1,000 yard seasons with guys like Fitz at QB

Ancient history.

[OpIv37]

We have been considering the future for 15 years. And we have sucked for 15 years.

It's one pick. McCargo, Maybin, Whitner, Manuel, Losman, M. Williams...It's so dreadful to mortgage that amazing history and burn down our future...
It's not one pick. It's 3 picks: the one we used on him plus the two we traded for him.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

Once again, an argument based on your assumption of how other people would have reacted in a situation that never actually occurred. Meaningless, speculative "argument"

Just like you saying the Bills are nowhere near the playoffs. Injuries and things happen. Teams go worst to first. Same deal. Meaningless, speculative.

- - - Updated - - -

If Watkins hits his potential the price will be long forgotten.

[OpIv37]

Just like you saying the Bills are nowhere near the playoffs. Injuries and things happen. Teams go worst to first. Same deal. Meaningless, speculative.

Um, no. I had reasoning behind my argument as to why the Bills won't make the playoffs. You can agree or disagree with the reasoning, but it was there. You have no reasoning behind what you said- just assumptions and speculation.

And saying "teams go from worst to first" isn't an argument or reasoning. It's just a statement of something that is technically possible. If you want it to be meaningful, provide reasons as to why you think that could happen to the Bills.

[Historian]

All I can say guys...is that I believe this team has turned a corner. (Even before last night)

They showed me enough last year to make me believe that they are going to be even better this year.

So I put my money where my mouth is: I bought a pair of season tickets.

And I believe I'm gonna have fun this fall.

:up:

[D'Angelo Vickers]

Um, no. I had reasoning behind my argument as to why the Bills won't make the playoffs. You can agree or disagree with the reasoning, but it was there. You have no reasoning behind what you said- just assumptions and speculation.

And saying "teams go from worst to first" isn't an argument or reasoning. It's just a statement of something that is technically possible. If you want it to be meaningful, provide reasons as to why you think that could happen to the Bills.

Division. Pats haven't gotten any better, they just drafted a guy with a torn ACL. The Jets haven't gotten any better. The Dolphins haven't gotten any better.

Bills were 3-3 in the division last year, after being 2-4 the year before. Progression. Things change in the NFL. The Texans were one of the best teams in the league in 12, in 13 they were the worst.

You can't guarantee any result from this year. I don't think it's likely, but I think they're going to win from 8-10 games, which would be improvement.

I'm not an EJ believer, as a future star, but to think he could be a mid 80's rated QB, not that far fetched.

They added a guy who runs after the catch. 70% of his catches were within 10 yards of the LOS. EJ throws short passes. He's instantly the best weapon on the team.

Everything in football in speculative. In 2001 I doubt any Pats fans were predicting a Super Bowl championship, and guys like you were probably saying, when Tom Brady came in "Season's over!"

I agree with you on lots of stuff, but to be upset about this, today, I think is silly and a waste of energy. If the Bills make the playoffs this year, and have a good couple picks tonight, the price for Watkins will be moot.

[Dr. Lecter]

Ancient history.

Ummmmm....

Sure. If one year removed from that run is ancient history.

I hate to see what that makes either of us.

[OpIv37]

Division. Pats haven't gotten any better, they just drafted a guy with a torn ACL. The Jets haven't gotten any better. The Dolphins haven't gotten any better.

Bills were 3-3 in the division last year, after being 2-4 the year before. Progression. Things change in the NFL. The Texans were one of the best teams in the league in 12, in 13 they were the worst.

You can't guarantee any result from this year. I don't think it's likely, but I think they're going to win from 8-10 games, which would be improvement.

I'm not an EJ believer, as a future star, but to think he could be a mid 80's rated QB, not that far fetched.

They added a guy who runs after the catch. 70% of his catches were within 10 yards of the LOS. EJ throws short passes. He's instantly the best weapon on the team.

Everything in football in speculative. In 2001 I doubt any Pats fans were predicting a Super Bowl championship, and guys like you were probably saying, when Tom Brady came in "Season's over!"

I agree with you on lots of stuff, but to be upset about this, today, I think is silly and a waste of energy. If the Bills make the playoffs this year, and have a good couple picks tonight, the price for Watkins will be moot.

This is where you lose me: you say you're not an EJ believer. Well, what if he completely chokes this year and it's painfully obvious that we need a new QB? How are we going to get one without a first round pick next year?

That's why I have such a problem giving up next year's first.

[DraftBoy]

To me the difference between what Ebron gives us vs what Chandler gives us is significantly larger than what Watkins would give us vs what Woods or Williams could give us. Make sense? As think a group of Woods and Williams on the outside with Stevie in the slot and Ebron either on the line or split out wide (assuming we run a 3 WR 1 TE base formation) would cause a bigger matchup problems for defenses then say Watkins and Woods on the outside and Stevie in the slot and Chandler at TE

Not really, your argument we could of stayed put and got a playmaker, but we wouldn't gotten a worse one than Watkins.

- - - Updated - - -


Stayed put and went OL to protect EJ.

How the hell is that being bold? You said they could of done it last night, yet you can't back it up.

[justasportsfan]

I thought Spiller was going to do that?

not with EJ.

[OpIv37]

Not really, your argument we could of stayed put and got a playmaker, but we wouldn't gotten a worse one than Watkins.

- - - Updated - - -



How the hell is that being bold? You said they could of done it last night, yet you can't back it up.

I didn't say it was being bold- I said it was different from what we've done in the past. I think the last time we went OL with our first pick was Mike Williams. Point is, it doesn't matter who the targets are: EJ can't hit them from his back. And EJ may need to be replaced next year.

[The Jokeman]

Not really, your argument we could of stayed put and got a playmaker, but we wouldn't gotten a worse one than Watkins.

I guess to me Ebron, our 1st in 2015 and 4th in 2015 > Watkins in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong. As again I feel we have a few playmakers at WR but lack one at TE.

[justasportsfan]

How the hell is that being bold? You said they could of done it last night, yet you can't back it up.

He's arguing with himself again. OP's so called logic changes with every bills move. He will contradict his own logic just to complain.

[DraftBoy]

I guess to me Ebron, our 1st in 2015 and 4th in 2015 > Watkins in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong.

So a worse playmaker and two complete unknowns is better than quite possibly the best player in this draft (for the record I think Clowney was the best but Watkins has an argument)?

It's no secret I'm not Ebron fan but you're putting a ton of stock into two picks we know nothing about in that valuation.

[Dr. Lecter]

I didn't say it was being bold- I said it was different from what we've done in the past. I think the last time we went OL with our first pick was Mike Williams. Point is, it doesn't matter who the targets are: EJ can't hit them from his back. And EJ may need to be replaced next year.


He is less likely to need to be replaced with the addition of Watkins.

And they can still draft a tackle in the second round.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't say it was being bold- I said it was different from what we've done in the past. I think the last time we went OL with our first pick was Mike Williams. Point is, it doesn't matter who the targets are: EJ can't hit them from his back. And EJ may need to be replaced next year.

No its the same drafting positional need over value they always did and the same mentality you railed against for years. You've completely flipped your opinion on this now.

No the point is the draft is 7 rounds long, and good GM's find starters in Round 2 and 3. Whaley can find some OL help tonight after passing last night and your opinion on EJ being replaced is based on ifs and buts. Let's just see what happens tonight before we begin the Bills are stupid thread for the one kabillionth time.

[justasportsfan]

OP entire thread is based on the thought that WHAT IF EJ busts and that we'll need the 1st rd pick for a qb.

He needs to apologize to posters who argued what if's. :rolleyes:

[The Jokeman]

So a worse playmaker and two complete unknowns is better than quite possibly the best player in this draft (for the record I think Clowney was the best but Watkins has an argument)?

It's no secret I'm not Ebron fan but you're putting a ton of stock into two picks we know nothing about in that valuation.

It's a calculated risk and based on the law of averages I think it was foolish as I admit I'm not sold on Watkins being an elite NFL prospect.

[mysticsoto]

This is where you lose me: you say you're not an EJ believer. Well, what if he completely chokes this year and it's painfully obvious that we need a new QB? How are we going to get one without a first round pick next year?

That's why I have such a problem giving up next year's first.

Op, you don't plan on stocking a team based on what if someone doesn't work out...or even worse, what if someone gets hurt. You plan with what you have and what you think you need.

The FO made the decision to go with EJ. You may not believe in him yet (and many others may not) but they do and they are going to make decisions based on that belief.

We can't afford to keep waiting. Let's say we had taken a tackle, Lewan for instance, we still had no impact player added. Additionally, we had 12 WRs on our roster b'cse clearly they are NOT happy w/what we had there. Sure we can pick the best out of the bunch, but picking the best doesn't mean the group is going to produce much. If you double team Stevie and take him out, the rest of the WRs have been marginal at best but are not good enough to own other teams.

They took a position of weakness of ours and made it into a strength. Between that and gathering better depth, we have gotten visibly better as a team. So far, our divisional rivals have not done as much.

Try to keep an open mind and see where today leads. I'm guessing Oline gets addressed as you've been also complaining about.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

This is where you lose me: you say you're not an EJ believer. Well, what if he completely chokes this year and it's painfully obvious that we need a new QB? How are we going to get one without a first round pick next year?

That's why I have such a problem giving up next year's first.

Like they said on WGR, forget this trade for a second. If EJ went 8-8 next year and played 16 games, they aren't replacing him. He's gonna have to do pretty bad.

Even with that considered, I don't think the Bills will lose enough to pick one of the top QB's next year anyway. How could the QB play be worse than last year? (Tuel playing multiple games I guess?)

[psubills62]

It's interesting how some people analyze everything on paper. The idea that taking players in the draft automatically upgrades your talent should be obviously and glaringly wrong to anyone who has watched the Bills spend a first rounder on Maybin and a second rounder on Torrell Troup. I don't really understand how someone can watch football and then say "the other teams will close the talent gap simply by being able to take people in the first round, etc." This is the same kind of logic that leads to conclusions like saying drafting Michael Floyd + Kendall Hunter > drafting AJ Green. Would anyone really take those first two players over AJ Green?

Reality is that we've been missing elite athleticism and top talent for a long time now. I don't really agree with how they went about it, but it's obvious that sitting back and taking someone like Ebron or an OT isn't going to upgrade our talent even close to as much as Watkins did.

[cookie G]

Of course there is. I never said otherwise.

But this is also far from mortgaging the future.

Well, as someone pointed out today, by the time the Bills have another 1st round pick, Manuel will be entering his 4th year.

They have, at the very least, mortgaged the next two years +. In Not For Long time, that's eons. On a team with a 14 year playoff drought, that's an eternity.



What is the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Want to hear something that sounds eeriely similar?

A few years ago, the Bills had a young QB that had thrown 11 TD's the season before and had one of the worst passing attacks in the league.

So the next season, the war cry was to "give this kid some weapons", real playmakers, "the tools he needs to succeed"...etc. etc. There were already question marks about his ability and/or willingness to throw intermediate to deep passes.

He already had a guy who, at the time, was one of the best deep threats in the league. They had two quality RBs who were both dual threats out of the backfield.

So what they did...they brought in a guy with HOF credentials as a "weapon"...someone who proved on prior teams that he could take an offense to the next level, despite his bi polar condition.

And best yet, they'd be using an up tempo, flashy, no huddle offense that was going to keep defenses on their heels. This is implemented, despite a history of being towards the bottom of the league in passing attempts.

Zoom Zoom!!!!

The trade off was, they dumped both starting tackles in the offseason and though they drafted two good linemen....had a net sum of 2 quality starters out of 5. (this is actually scarily similar)

Well...it ended up with no Zoom Zoom

It was Putter Putter

They ended up 30th in the league in passing...gave up 48 sacks...and pretty much sucked.

It turns out, advanced weaponry couldn't overcome a shaky OL, a timid QB who couldn't get the ball past 10 yards and some conservative play calling that didn't fit the image projected.

Will history repeat itself? God I hope not. But the arguments made right now, were made in 2009...and we are expecting different results.



They did something different and bold. Will it work? I don't know.

Again, not so different. And at least, in 2009, you didn't have to wait another 2 years to get another QB. You just paid a lot of money for a WR..and then not use him. Unfortunately for us, we hired a GM that was too incompetent to see the need for one. (No one...no one could be more disappointed in Buddy than me...I thought he was going to be good).

I caught NFLN early this morning and watched them discuss the trade. The consensus was....."I...dunno.....". Few thought it was a good idea to give up future no. 1's when you don't know if your starter is really a franchise guy...and all agreed taht you make a trade like that when you are a team like Atlanta, and have your QB and OL in place already.

We'll see. Its the type of move that can put a guy like Whaley into the special editor chair at Yahoo Sports...I just hope he realizes that. If it fails, he doesn't get another chance.



But staying at 9 and taking Lewan is the kind of move they have made for years.

Well, we haven't drafted an OL that high in 13 years..so I don't know where this is coming from. I think every other team drafting in the top 10 has during that time span has...but not us....but that's only because we are smarter than everyone else, as we have proven time and time again.

This is nothing against Watkins who shows everything you can want in a receiver.

But hell...a team that neglects the QB position for years, finally takes one...reaching a bit for a guy with question marks, because they are desperate..and are caught in a weak QB class.

The guy plays a year and doesn't come close to setting the NFL on fire, finds himself towards the bottom of the league in most passing categories, and leaves as many questions about his franchise status as he did a year earlier.

And despite those questions...you purposefully hamper the ability to replace him in the near future...and wonder if people are going to question the move?

Oh yeah, people are going to question it.

[OpIv37]

No its the same drafting positional need over value they always did and the same mentality you railed against for years. You've completely flipped your opinion on this now.

No the point is the draft is 7 rounds long, and good GM's find starters in Round 2 and 3. Whaley can find some OL help tonight after passing last night and your opinion on EJ being replaced is based on ifs and buts. Let's just see what happens tonight before we begin the Bills are stupid thread for the one kabillionth time.

Here's the problem: we have positional needs. We don't address them in FA. Now you're saying that it's ok that we took value over positional need in the first round of this draft AND gave up other opportunities to fill those positions in the next draft by trading picks.

So, how exactly do you intend to fill those positional needs? We've tried to fill them later in the draft before. The results on the field speak for themselves.

[OpIv37]

Op, you don't plan on stocking a team based on what if someone doesn't work out...or even worse, what if someone gets hurt. You plan with what you have and what you think you need.

The FO made the decision to go with EJ. You may not believe in him yet (and many others may not) but they do and they are going to make decisions based on that belief.

We can't afford to keep waiting. Let's say we had taken a tackle, Lewan for instance, we still had no impact player added. Additionally, we had 12 WRs on our roster b'cse clearly they are NOT happy w/what we had there. Sure we can pick the best out of the bunch, but picking the best doesn't mean the group is going to produce much. If you double team Stevie and take him out, the rest of the WRs have been marginal at best but are not good enough to own other teams.

They took a position of weakness of ours and made it into a strength. Between that and gathering better depth, we have gotten visibly better as a team. So far, our divisional rivals have not done as much.

Try to keep an open mind and see where today leads. I'm guessing Oline gets addressed as you've been also complaining about.

Well, I don't entirely disagree with the first part of what you said, but look at the particular situation. EJ plays the most important position on the team and has had questionable play and multiple injuries. It would be ridiculous to say something like "we may need that pick for a corner if Gilmore doesn't work out" but I see it differently in this specific situation.

As far as taking a weakness and making it a plus, yes we did that. But we did it at quite the price. It reduces our ability to address the other holes.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Why do people keep saying we could have stayed put and taken Evans? He was gone at 7.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

You should edit the OP because it's now 5 picks :-)

[DraftBoy]

Here's the problem: we have positional needs. We don't address them in FA. Now you're saying that it's ok that we took value over positional need in the first round of this draft AND gave up other opportunities to fill those positions in the next draft by trading picks.

So, how exactly do you intend to fill those positional needs? We've tried to fill them later in the draft before. The results on the field speak for themselves.

Yes its always ok to draft value over positional needs.

What positional needs did we not attempt to address in FA exactly? We added a MLB, a FS, OT/OG, OLB, and a RB. You act like we sat on our thumbs and did nothing.

[OpIv37]

Yes its always ok to draft value over positional needs.

What positional needs did we not attempt to address in FA exactly? We added a MLB, a FS, OT/OG, OLB, and a RB. You act like we sat on our thumbs and did nothing.
"Attempt to address" and actually address are two different things. Only one of those FA's will start.

[DraftBoy]

"Attempt to address" and actually address are two different things. Only one of those FA's will start.

Nice to see your crystal ball is functioning at full capacity so early in the year.

I think both Spikes and Graham start and Rivers could certainly push Lawson.

[gr8slayer]

Six picks, and they finally got a #1 WR. The last time the Bills had a guy remotely close to a #1 was Moulds.

[swiper]

Six picks, and they finally got a #1 WR. The last time the Bills had a guy remotely close to a #1 was Moulds.

Could be worse. The Browns QBs:

Brady Quinn
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel

[gr8slayer]

Not sure what you're getting at, we're talking WR's, not QB's.
Could be worse. The Browns QBs:

Brady Quinn
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel

[Dr. Lecter]

"Attempt to address" and actually address are two different things. Only one of those FA's will start.

Which one?

Williams will start. Spikes. Rivers. and maybe Graham.

Or am I wrong?

[justasportsfan]

Ok. This thread was a Kneejerk whine like I thought.. We addressed RT with a projected 1st rd. talent just like Glenn. This thread can die now :D

[OpIv37]

Ok. This thread was a Kneejerk whine like I thought.. We addressed RT with a projected 1st rd. talent just like Glenn. This thread can die now :D

6 picks on WR in three drafts. It can't and won't die.

[OpIv37]

Which one?

Williams will start. Spikes. Rivers. and maybe Graham.

Or am I wrong?
Spikes. I made the post before Stevie was traded so Williams may start now. The other two won't.

[doug45]

If Ej busts this season, the next guy has all the weapons ready.

But we gave up our future pick to get the next guy !

[TacklingDummy]

But we gave up our future pick to get the next guy !

Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round.

[OpIv37]

Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round.

Come on man- exception to prove the rule. You know most starting NFL QB's were first or 2nd round picks.

[Bill Cody]

6 picks on WR in three drafts. It can't and won't die.
6?

[OpIv37]

6?

My first post in this thread explains it. But it was before we replaced the 4th we lost by trading Stevie.

[TacklingDummy]

Come on man- exception to prove the rule. You know most starting NFL QB's were first or 2nd round picks.

Sorry, guess my sarcasm didn't come through.

[Bill Cody]

My first post in this thread explains it. But it was before we replaced the 4th we lost by trading Stevie.
You make it sound bad. We've completely revamped the receiver corps which takes picks or $. Huge upgrade from where we were no? An asset like Watkins is not going to just drop your lap for free

[BB4ever]

We still havent got it right 11 wr cant throw the ball to themselves.

[Dr. Lecter]

Spikes. I made the post before Stevie was traded so Williams may start now. The other two won't.

Williams the guard.

And Rivers is starting. They have said that.

So yes - you were wrong Opacus

[justasportsfan]

6 picks on WR in three drafts. It can't and won't die.

so we should have not drafted any wr and stayed with Donald Jones and Stevie. Oh wait you *****ed about them too. You're right. Your *****ing and whining cant' and wont die.

[DraftBoy]

Williams the guard.

And Rivers is starting. They have said that.

So yes - you were wrong Opacus

With the announcement that Lawson is moving DE then Rivers is definitely starting.

Rivers SLB
Spikes MLB
Alonso WLB

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

2014 1st, 2015 1st and 4th on Watkins
2013 2nd on Woods
2013 3rd on Goodwin
Traded 2014 7th for M. Williams

We have a questionable OL and a questionable QB. It's completely insane to devote that many resources to WR when we don't even know if we can get them the ball.

More importantly, we just bet the farm on EJ because there is ZERO chance we find a different starting QB before 2016.

Don't get me wrong. I like Watkins as a player and he fills a hole. I just don't like how we obtained him. If EJ's a bust, this move will literally set the franchise back 2 years.


You give the impression that EJ is already a bust without giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his limited playing time due to injuries! You take the negative approach to his play apposed to the opposite! The Bills have just about everything in place for a productive season and a winning record. I choose to take a positive spin on what the Bills brass has done to this point and look forward to the 4th, 5th and 7th round picks to complete the transition to winning football in Buffalo once again! Remember, Stevie was a 7th rounder and he made good! The Bills have spent a lot of "Quan" on getting the right receiving corp into Buffalo for EJ to pass to over the last couple of years and Stevie has left for reasons only known to the Bills brass, but I think they feel they save a bunch of money letting Stevie go for the young speedsters now on the roster!

[pmoon6]

I don't why Opie even writes sentences let alone paragraphs. If he wants to be truly articulate all he needs to post is "Bills Suck".

[OpIv37]

You give the impression that EJ is already a bust without giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his limited playing time due to injuries! You take the negative approach to his play apposed to the opposite! The Bills have just about everything in place for a productive season and a winning record. I choose to take a positive spin on what the Bills brass has done to this point and look forward to the 4th, 5th and 7th round picks to complete the transition to winning football in Buffalo once again! Remember, Stevie was a 7th rounder and he made good! The Bills have spent a lot of "Quan" on getting the right receiving corp into Buffalo for EJ to pass to over the last couple of years and Stevie has left for reasons only known to the Bills brass, but I think they feel they save a bunch of money letting Stevie go for the young speedsters now on the roster!

I'm not saying EJ is or isn't a bust. I simply don't know at this point- no one does. But with his play and his injury history, EJ being a bust is a realistic possibility and I think the team needs a contingency plan in case that happens. No first next year = no contingency plan.

It doesn't matter if we have the best WR corps in history if a journeyman or 2015 2nd round draft choice are throwing to them in 2015.

[Dr. Lecter]

I'm not saying EJ is or isn't a bust. I simply don't know at this point- no one does. But with his play and his injury history, EJ being a bust is a realistic possibility and I think the team needs a contingency plan in case that happens. No first next year = no contingency plan.

It doesn't matter if we have the best WR corps in history if a journeyman or 2015 2nd round draft choice are throwing to them in 2015.
That really is not true.

And of course it is a possibility. But that is reduced now.

I also do not mind that this team is not walking on egg shells assuming that all will fail.

One other good thing - we don't have to listen to the loser idiots rooting for the Bills to lose at the end of the year.

That will be welcome

[OpIv37]

so we should have not drafted any wr and stayed with Donald Jones and Stevie. Oh wait you *****ed about them too. You're right. Your *****ing and whining cant' and wont die.
What I'm *****ing about is using 6 draft picks to fix one position while we have a plethora of other holes. What I'm *****ing about is fixing WR when we don't know if we have an OL that can protect the QB or a QB who can get them the ball. What I'm *****ing about is giving away our only real shot at replacing EJ if it comes to that. You have expressed concern about him yourself.

If you don't see why those things are real problems, well you deserve whets you get on the field.

[OpIv37]

That really is not true.

And of course it is a possibility. But that is reduced now.

I also do not mind that this team is not walking on egg shells assuming that all will fail.

One other good thing - we don't have to listen to the loser idiots rooting for the Bills to lose at the end of the year.

That will be welcome
Ok so tell me what another possible contingency plan is. I'm just asking for a possibility- there doesn't even have to be any evidence that the team is even considering it. Worst case scenario: EJ is ****ing terrible. How do we get a starting QB for 2015 that can take advantage of all these WR's?

[DraftBoy]

Bills get two great OL prospects who may start, yet you're still saying we aren't addressing holes.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Ok so tell me what another possible contingency plan is. I'm just asking for a possibility- there doesn't even have to be any evidence that the team is even considering it. Worst case scenario: EJ is ****ing terrible. How do we get a starting QB for 2015 that can take advantage of all these WR's?

As I pointed out in the other thread, you can get a first round pick even if you didn't start the draft with one. Three QBs went in the first round this year and two of them went to teams with traded picks.

Or you could wait and grab a QB at the top of the second.

Or you could make a deal for someone's backup ala Alex Smith.

None of those are ideal options, but you're acting like the only way to get a QB ever is at the top of the first with your own pick.

[OpIv37]

As I pointed out in the other thread, you can get a first round pick even if you didn't start the draft with one. Three QBs went in the first round this year and two of them went to teams with traded picks.

Or you could wait and grab a QB at the top of the second.

Or you could make a deal for someone's backup ala Alex Smith.

None of those are ideal options, but you're acting like the only way to get a QB ever is at the top of the first with your own pick.

All those other things are remote possibilities.

What would it cost to move into the first round next year with no 1st rounder to swap? It'll be 2016's first plus half of 2015's draft.

Backups who could start like Alex Smith don't come on the FA market every year, and even if one does, there is no guarantee we can get them.

People are enamored with this idea of 2nd round starting QB's because of Kapernick and Wilson but they are rare as well.

[OpIv37]

Bills get two great OL prospects who may start, yet you're still saying we aren't addressing holes.

"May" start? We've tried addressing holes with mid-late round picks before, pretty much every single year. Look where it's gotten us.

[BertSquirtgum]

Can't wait to watch the browns have two 1st round picks in the top 10 next year. Disgusting.

[Ginger Vitis]

All those other things are remote possibilities.

What would it cost to move into the first round next year with no 1st rounder to swap? It'll be 2016's first plus half of 2015's draft.

Backups who could start like Alex Smith don't come on the FA market every year, and even if one does, there is no guarantee we can get them.

People are enamored with this idea of 2nd round starting QB's because of Kapernick and Wilson but they are rare as well.

Rusell Wilson went in the 3rd Round

[Dr. Lecter]

"May" start? We've tried addressing holes with mid-late round picks before, pretty much every single year. Look where it's gotten us.

One of the picks was in the second round. Not mid-late.

Same round as Glenn

[OpIv37]

Also there seems to be some confusion over good vs less bad. If one of the guys we drafted starts on this OL, it doesn't necessarily mean he's good or that the hole has been filled. It just means he's less bad than what we had.

[Dr. Lecter]

Ok so tell me what another possible contingency plan is. I'm just asking for a possibility- there doesn't even have to be any evidence that the team is even considering it. Worst case scenario: EJ is ****ing terrible. How do we get a starting QB for 2015 that can take advantage of all these WR's?

Then I guess they should have drafted Bridgewater in the first.

And then more QBs.

Sometimes you have to gamble and get behind a player. If he does not work out, sign a guy like Vick as a stop gap. Fact is, if he does not pan they are screwed regardless. Trying to add talent to the team is not a bad thing. Especially elite talent (which I keep trying to remind you is something you have *****ed about for years. Now they get elite talent and you still *****) which is hard to find.

BTW, how many of the FAs are starters? Do you admit it is more than one?

[The Jokeman]

Ok so tell me what another possible contingency plan is. I'm just asking for a possibility- there doesn't even have to be any evidence that the team is even considering it. Worst case scenario: EJ is ****ing terrible. How do we get a starting QB for 2015 that can take advantage of all these WR's?

No the worst case scenario is that EJ falls flat on his face and we end up with a top 10 pick and Watkins becomes the next Troy Williamson. That said I think the Bills are going to be 8-8 next year and just miss out on the playoffs. EJ ends up with a RGIII 2014 type season. Good enough to continue to play with him. Watkins has an Emmanuel Sanders 2014 like season. Things are looking up but not sure we've done enough to make that next step up.

[OpIv37]

One of the picks was in the second round. Not mid-late.

Same round as Glenn

And because Glenn was able to start in his rookie year as a 2nd round pick, that means this year's 2nd round pick will be able to start as a rookie?

[OpIv37]

Then I guess they should have drafted Bridgewater in the first.

And then more QBs.

Sometimes you have to gamble and get behind a player. If he does not work out, sign a guy like Vick as a stop gap. Fact is, if he does not pan they are screwed regardless. Trying to add talent to the team is not a bad thing. Especially elite talent (which I keep trying to remind you is something you have *****ed about for years. Now they get elite talent and you still *****) which is hard to find.

BTW, how many of the FAs are starters? Do you admit it is more than one?
Other teams get elite talent without using 6 draft picks on the same position. Other teams get elite talent without trading next year's first.

I'll give you more than one on the FA starters only because Stevie was traded and M Williams will likely start now. I don't see any of the others starting. We will have to wait and see if I'm right.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

All those other things are remote possibilities.

What would it cost to move into the first round next year with no 1st rounder to swap? It'll be 2016's first plus half of 2015's draft.

What are you talking about? Minnesota moved into the first this year with their 2nd and 4th. Cleveland moved into the first for a busted halfback. Last year Minnesota moved into the first for Harvin, a guy they weren't even going to be able to keep anyway. Minnesota moved into the first again for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th.

You are fixated on the top 10 picks. Yes, they are expensive. But, they are not the only way to get a quarterback, and next year is not the only time to do it.


Backups who could start like Alex Smith don't come on the FA market every year, and even if one does, there is no guarantee we can get them.

Smith didn't hit the free agent market at all. Kansas City traded for him. It didn't even take a first, though it did take the 33rd pick.


People are enamored with this idea of 2nd round starting QB's because of Kapernick and Wilson but they are rare as well.

Sure, picking a QB in the 2nd is less desirable then picking one in the first. But it happens every single year.

This idea that the Watkins trade leaves us stuck with Manuel is myopic in the extreme.

[The Jokeman]

And because Glenn was able to start in his rookie year as a 2nd round pick, that means this year's 2nd round pick will be able to start as a rookie?

Considering that Cyrus was projected as a top 20 talent it's realistic to think he can start this year assuming his knee really is okay. I admit I'm a little worried about EJ throwing to a very inexperienced WR core that we have but think if Woods can improve on his rookie year, Mike Williams can turn into pre 2014 form (ie a good #2) and Watkins can be a good #2/3 then things aren't going to be that bad. That said we really haven't improved our TE situation but who knows maybe we do something crazy like sign Jermichael Finley after the draft.

[OpIv37]

What are you talking about? Minnesota moved into the first this year with their 2nd and 4th. Cleveland moved into the first for a busted halfback. Last year Minnesota moved into the first for Harvin, a guy they weren't even going to be able to keep anyway. Minnesota moved into the first again for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th.

You are fixated on the top 10 picks. Yes, they are expensive. But, they are not the only way to get a quarterback, and next year is not the only time to do it.



Smith didn't hit the free agent market at all. Kansas City traded for him. It didn't even take a first, though it did take the 33rd pick.



Sure, picking a QB in the 2nd is less desirable then picking one in the first. But it happens every single year.

This idea that the Watkins trade leaves us stuck with Manuel is myopic in the extreme.
Wow. It took minny almost an entire draft to get into the first. You really think this team can afford that?

What picks or players do we have to trade if an Alex Smith type becomes available?

My view is not myopic- you are overstating the probability of these options. You're just stating things that have happened. That doesn't mean it's likely or even possible that they could happen to the Bills this off-season.

We are simply not talented enough to be giving up first rounders.

[Novacane]

And because Glenn was able to start in his rookie year as a 2nd round pick, that means this year's 2nd round pick will be able to start as a rookie?



omg sometimes I think you argue just to argue. The addressed a position of need. Now it's wait and see.

[The Jokeman]

Wow. It took minny almost an entire draft to get into the first. You really think this team can afford that?

What picks or players do we have to trade if an Alex Smith type becomes available?

My view is not myopic- you are overstating the probability of these options. You're just stating things that have happened. That doesn't mean it's likely or even possible that they could happen to the Bills this off-season.

We are simply not talented enough to be giving up first rounders.

If McCarron is as good a QB as some of the fans here believe we can just sign Andy Dalton as an UFA next year. Face it we're married to EJ Manuel in 2014 and most likely in 2015 too.

[OpIv37]

omg sometimes I think you argue just to argue. The addressed a position of need. Now it's wait and see.
They "addressed" it the same way they have tried and failed to address positions in the past. But hey, let's keep doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

[Dr. Lecter]

Other teams get elite talent without using 6 draft picks on the same position. Other teams get elite talent without trading next year's first.

I'll give you more than one on the FA starters only because Stevie was traded and M Williams will likely start now. I don't see any of the others starting. We will have to wait and see if I'm right.

Chris Williams is starting.
David Rivers is starting.

Brandon Spikes is starting.

There is 3 - I am not counting Mike Williams since he was not starting when you said that.

[Dr. Lecter]

And because Glenn was able to start in his rookie year as a 2nd round pick, that means this year's 2nd round pick will be able to start as a rookie?

My God.

I was pointing out that he was not a mid or late round pick as you said he was.

You are trying too hard on this one.

I agree trading away the 1st next year is a risk

It is not the end of the world as you are saying. There is a chance it works out

[psubills62]

They "addressed" it the same way they have tried and failed to address positions in the past. But hey, let's keep doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.
You mean by...drafting players?

[OpIv37]

You mean by...drafting players?

I mean attempting to fill immediate needs with mid-late round draft picks

[psubills62]

I mean attempting to fill immediate needs with mid-late round draft picks
I'm curious as to how many teams you think fill exactly all their needs by the time round 4 starts every single year?

[OpIv37]

I'm curious as to how many teams you think fill exactly all their needs by the time round 4 starts every single year?

I don't know but clearly some do. There is a reason why 23 teams are drafting after us.....

[YardRat]

What 'immediate needs' is the team trying to fill out this season with 'mid-late round draft picks'?

[OpIv37]

What 'immediate needs' is the team trying to fill out this season with 'mid-late round draft picks'?

OL for one.

[OpIv37]

I'm curious as to how many teams you think fill exactly all their needs by the time round 4 starts every single year?
And now that I think about it, this is the wrong question. The right question is:

Why do we still have so many holes when we are already at the 4th round of the draft.

Yeah, every team has holes and no team is perfect. But few have as many holes as we do.

[Novacane]

They "addressed" it the same way they have tried and failed to address positions in the past. But hey, let's keep doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.



A second round tackle worked out pretty good a couple years ago. Did You wanted them taking OL in the first?

[Novacane]

And because Glenn was able to start in his rookie year as a 2nd round pick, that means this year's 2nd round pick will be able to start as a rookie?



Does it mean he won't? I guess I don't see the point in *****ing yet. We have no idea how good/bad these guys will be.

[OpIv37]

A second round tackle worked out pretty good a couple years ago. Did You wanted them taking OL in the first?

Yeah I did actually.

And we have an IMMEDIATE need on the OL. Sure, Cordy Glenn was able to step in and play right away but that's not the case with every second round draft pick. If this guy isn't ready to step in immediately, EJ's running for his life and our prized receiver is useless.

[OpIv37]

Does it mean he won't? I guess I don't see the point in *****ing yet. We have no idea how good/bad these guys will be.

Because this is how it goes every year.

IF this second year guy matures and IF this guy stays healthy and IF these six rookies can step in and play well right away and IF we can avoid major injuries and IF this guy with a history stays out of trouble and IF the learning curve on the new system on O or D (or both) isn't too steep then we MAY make the playoffs.

It's always a laundry list of if's. Sure, some will work out in our favor, but not enough to be good.

And yes, I know, every team has if's. Few, if any, have as many as we do, and no team has as many as we do year in and year out.

[MikeInRoch]

And because Glenn was able to start in his rookie year as a 2nd round pick, that means this year's 2nd round pick will be able to start as a rookie?

Just how many first round picks should we have used to fill holes in this year's draft?

[OpIv37]

Just how many first round picks should we have used to fill holes in this year's draft?

Well less than 2 first round picks on one hole would have been a nice start.

You guys don't see the recurring trend here? McKelvin and Gilmore, Lynch and Spiller, six picks on WR's.... It's the same old thing of using picks to fill the same positions over and over again while neglecting other positions.

[MikeInRoch]

Well less than 2 first round picks on one hole would have been a nice start.

You guys don't see the recurring trend here? McKelvin and Gilmore, Lynch and Spiller, six picks on WR's.... It's the same old thing of using picks to fill the same positions over and over again while neglecting other positions.

Read again. How many first round picks in this years draft? We used one of those this year to fill, yes, a hole. Like it or not, WR was a hole on this team. So we filled one hole with one first round pick for this year. Next year's picks are irrelevant to almost your entire rant.

[YardRat]

Yeah I did actually.

And we have an IMMEDIATE need on the OL. Sure, Cordy Glenn was able to step in and play right away but that's not the case with every second round draft pick. If this guy isn't ready to step in immediately, EJ's running for his life and our prized receiver is useless.

Although I agree the oline needs upgrading, what wasn't addressed before today?

Glenn, Wood and Urbik are starters. Williams was brought in via FA to play G. KuJo was drafted in the second for RT. There are only 5. If Richardson can beat out somebody for G, that's just a bonus. Are you considering back-ups and camp competition immediate needs?

[psubills62]

And now that I think about it, this is the wrong question. The right question is:

Why do we still have so many holes when we are already at the 4th round of the draft.

Yeah, every team has holes and no team is perfect. But few have as many holes as we do.
I don't think we have quite as many holes as you think we do. Plenty of areas we could improve, but that's the same as every team. When I compare this team to teams in the past, I don't see nearly as many "holes" as I used to. Positions where we had guys who should have been 3rd string players at best starting. I don't see any position on the team that's quite as desperate, except maybe TE (and maybe QB, depending on your view of Manuel).

My point is really that you don't seem to understand that every team does have flaws. Yes, Buffalo has more flaws and it shows in their record. But it's not like some gaping chasm where we need 20+ guys and the other teams only need 2-3.

I just don't see what the issue is here. I guess in an ideal world, you'd use the draft to simply improve upon a great team. But that's far from reality, even for playoff teams. The front office is using the draft to get the best guys they think will improve the team. This isn't really some absurdly wacky concept. And the fact that you think they're doing the same thing they always do is head-scratching. I cannot think of one single regime the last 10 years that would have traded up for Watkins, or even would have made half as many trades as they did this year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Wow. It took minny almost an entire draft to get into the first. You really think this team can afford that?

You ignored three of my examples, but whatever. You can't have it both ways Op. Minnesota used four picks, including a 4th and a7th. But, as you keep suggesting, 4th and 7th rounders are low percentage picks that have a slim chance of producing a starter.

So why care if Minnesota gives them up?


What picks or players do we have to trade if an Alex Smith type becomes available?

Two 2nds? Like Kansas city paid for the ultimate Alex Smith type.


My view is not myopic- you are overstating the probability of these options. You're just stating things that have happened. That doesn't mean it's likely or even possible that they could happen to the Bills this off-season.

So for example from just three last two drafts don't show it's a plausible option? The Watkins trade doesn't show that this regime is willing to aggressively move up?

[OpIv37]

Just because we made some trades doesn't mean we aren't doing the same things. We are still depending on rookies to fill holes. We are still using picks on the same positions over and over again. We are still drafting skill positions early. We are still negating our gains with other holes (ie spending on WR's with question marks at QB and OL).

That's the problem here.

[OpIv37]

You ignored three of my examples, but whatever. You can't have it both ways Op. Minnesota used four picks, including a 4th and a7th. But, as you keep suggesting, 4th and 7th rounders are low percentage picks that have a slim chance of producing a starter.

So why care if Minnesota gives them up?



Two 2nds? Like Kansas city paid for the ultimate Alex Smith type.



So for example from just three last two drafts don't show it's a plausible option? The Watkins trade doesn't show that this regime is willing to aggressively move up?
How many draft picks do we have? How many times can we "aggressively move up" before we end up with a year with only 3 picks?

Draft picks are not unlimited resources. We are already down 1-2 picks next year and you are talking about trading more picks for an Alex Smith type or to get into the first round.

[OpIv37]

Read again. How many first round picks in this years draft? We used one of those this year to fill, yes, a hole. Like it or not, WR was a hole on this team. So we filled one hole with one first round pick for this year. Next year's picks are irrelevant to almost your entire rant.
You think future first round picks are irrelevant? Gimme a ****ing break.

We filled a hole at way too high a price.

[OpIv37]

Although I agree the oline needs upgrading, what wasn't addressed before today?

Glenn, Wood and Urbik are starters. Williams was brought in via FA to play G. KuJo was drafted in the second for RT. There are only 5. If Richardson can beat out somebody for G, that's just a bonus. Are you considering back-ups and camp competition immediate needs?
Williams will be a back-up. He's not much better than what we had. If he starts, it's a lateral move. Don't get me wrong- we need OL depth so it wasn't a bad signing. But it didn't address the hole at guard.

[MikeInRoch]

You think future first round picks are irrelevant? Gimme a ****ing break.

We filled a hole at way too high a price.

It's irrelevant to most of the things you are *****ing about. "Why did we still have questions this year going into the 4th round?" Not relevant to trading away next year's first.

- - - Updated - - -


Just because we made some trades doesn't mean we aren't doing the same things. We are still depending on rookies to fill holes. We are still using picks on the same positions over and over again. We are still drafting skill positions early. We are still negating our gains with other holes (ie spending on WR's with question marks at QB and OL).

That's the problem here.

WHY do you think we didn't have question marks at WR?

[OpIv37]

It's irrelevant to most of the things you are *****ing about. "Why did we still have questions this year going into the 4th round?" Not relevant to trading away next year's first.

- - - Updated - - -



WHY do you think we didn't have question marks at WR?

WR was a question mark. I never debated that. My complaint is that it took us SIX draft picks to fill a hole at ONE position.

[Novacane]

WR was a question mark. I never debated that. My complaint is that it took us SIX draft picks to fill a hole at ONE position.


If at first you don't succeed................

[justasportsfan]

Where is the plethora of other holes Op?

[MikeInRoch]

WR was a question mark. I never debated that. My complaint is that it took us SIX draft picks to fill a hole at ONE position.

One position that you need 5 players for. It's not like it took us 6 draft picks to find a running back.

[OpIv37]

Where is the plethora of other holes Op?

OL, TE, LB (spikes and Kiko help but we need 3), we need an S to replace Byrd, possibly QB.

[Novacane]

OL, TE, LB (spikes and Kiko help but we need 3), we need an S to replace Byrd, possibly QB.


What team fills all their holes in one off season? What did you want them to do at OL? They addressed it. It may not be a hole anymore. Can we at least see how these new guys look in camp before declaring they are no good?

[justasportsfan]

Holy crap Op, are you paying attention? We just brought in Williams and drafted more OL. We have Moeaki and Chandler . Stop exaggerating the so called PLETHORA just to make a whine. The safety position was just as good last year when Byrd was not playing.We signed Rivers and drafted another ILB.

[OpIv37]

What team fills all their holes in one off season? What did you want them to do at OL? They addressed it. It may not be a hole anymore. Can we at least see how these new guys look in camp before declaring they are no good?

Yeah, I've heard this every year since this website has gone into existence. Still waiting for "wait and see" to work out.

[OpIv37]

Holy crap Op, are you paying attention? We just brought in Williams and drafted more OL. We have Moeaki and Chandler . Stop exaggerating the so called PLETHORA just to make a whine. The safety position was just as good last year when Byrd was not playing.We signed Rivers and drafted another ILB.

Nah, we don't have any holes. That's why we were 6-10 and drafting ahead of 23 teams....

[WagonCircler]

OL, TE, LB...possibly QB.

Possibly?

Definitely.

[justasportsfan]

Nah, we don't have any holes. That's why we were 6-10 and drafting ahead of 23 teams....
. Your posts just went from *****y to stupid.

[Dr. Lecter]

Possibly?

Definitely.

Or not. He played 10 ****ing games.

[psubills62]

Just because we made some trades doesn't mean we aren't doing the same things. We are still depending on rookies to fill holes. We are still using picks on the same positions over and over again. We are still drafting skill positions early. We are still negating our gains with other holes (ie spending on WR's with question marks at QB and OL).

That's the problem here.
So basically, because they actually drafted players, they're doing the same things.

You're using inane and inherent similarities that exist among all teams and using that to justify saying they're doing the same things that made them fail before. Oh my, they drafted rookies that they intend to start their rookie year. Oh gee, they spent multiple picks on one position, even though that position makes up 5 of the 22 starters and could have used an upgrade. Good gracious, they drafted a skill position early. I'm sure you'd rather have a DL like Maybin or John McCargo, right?

Sometimes, it's like you don't even watch football.

[MikeInRoch]

Yeah, I've heard this every year since this website has gone into existence. Still waiting for "wait and see" to work out.

And it seems like, every year, we hear *****ing from you, no matter what the team does. Never a concrete "I would have done X". It literally makes no difference what the team does, we can expect a post from Op that says "That move sucks, because we've been bad for so long."

[Novacane]

Yeah, I've heard this every year since this website has gone into existence. Still waiting for "wait and see" to work out.



You're just not making any sense now. What else can you do after the draft? You didn't answer the question what you wanted them to do.

[OpIv37]

And it seems like, every year, we hear *****ing from you, no matter what the team does. Never a concrete "I would have done X". It literally makes no difference what the team does, we can expect a post from Op that says "That move sucks, because we've been bad for so long."
I told you what I would have done: stayed at 9 and gone OL.

[OpIv37]

And it seems like, every year, we hear *****ing from you, no matter what the team does. Never a concrete "I would have done X". It literally makes no difference what the team does, we can expect a post from Op that says "That move sucks, because we've been bad for so long."

Not correct.

It's "that move sucks because it won't lead to wins." And so far, I've been right because the moves I complain about haven't lead to wins.

And you shouldn't be mad at me for not having an alternative. You should be mad at the people making millions to run this team for not getting it right.

[MikeInRoch]

I told you what I would have done: stayed at 9 and gone OL.

How could you ignore the hole at LB?? That's terrible!

[OpIv37]

How could you ignore the hole at LB?? That's terrible!

QB throws to WR, OL protects QB. Without OL or QB, WR is useless.

[MikeInRoch]

It's "that move sucks because it won't lead to wins." And so far, I've been right because the moves I complain about haven't lead to wins.

You complain about damn near every single move the team makes. Are they *all* bad? No. Are some of them bad? Yes. Do those end up making the team win fewer games? Yes. But you tend to make the blanket statement that *every* move sucks because they don't win games.

[MikeInRoch]

QB throws to WR, OL protects QB. Without OL or QB, WR is useless.

Well first, I didn't say WR.

This team had a hole at LB. They are trying to solve it in free agency, and in the draft - but it wasn't in the first round. But, according to your earlier posts, they did NOTHING to address that hole because they didn't use a first round pick on it.

[OpIv37]

Well first, I didn't say WR.

This team had a hole at LB. They are trying to solve it in free agency, and in the draft - but it wasn't in the first round. But, according to your earlier posts, they did NOTHING to address that hole because they didn't use a first round pick on it.

Yeah, you're right.

We'll just keep using picks on the same positions over and over again, be conservative in FA, and fill holes with mid to late round draft picks. It's a strategy that has worked so well in the past....

[MikeInRoch]

Why do you think we had no hole at LB? And why again is the 2nd round "mid"?

[MikeInRoch]

And I'd like to see your evidence of "conservative in FA".

[OpIv37]

Why do you think we had no hole at LB? And why again is the 2nd round "mid"?

Argh we went over this. We had a hole at LB, probably still do because by my count we have 2 starters. But, like I said: OL protects QB, QB throws to WR. the best WRs in history mean nothing without OL or QB.

And again, other teams can upgrade positions and get elite talent without surrendering future firsts.

[MikeInRoch]

Argh we went over this. We had a hole at LB, probably still do because by my count we have 2 starters. But, like I said: OL protects QB, QB throws to WR. the best WRs in history mean nothing without OL or QB.

And again, other teams can upgrade positions and get elite talent without surrendering future firsts.

And how do they do that? Free Agency and drafting players in rounds other than the first.

But according to you, doing both those things means that we did nothing to address the OL hole.

[OpIv37]

And how do they do that? Free Agency and drafting players in rounds other than the first.

But according to you, doing both those things means that we did nothing to address the OL hole.

If you think using rookies to address immediate needs is addressing holes, you haven't been paying attention for the last 14 years or so.

[psubills62]

Yeah, you're right.

We'll just keep using picks on the same positions over and over again, be conservative in FA, and fill holes with mid to late round draft picks. It's a strategy that has worked so well in the past....
It's worked fine for other teams like Baltimore, NE, Seattle, Pittsburgh, and GB (among others). The problem in Buffalo has always been the implementation of the method, taking/getting the wrong guys. That's on things like poor evaluations, poor decisions. Doesn't mean the overall strategy itself is poor.

How else are you supposed to fill holes? If you want to argue being aggressive in FA, the success rate for teams doing that is much lower than draft-focused teams. I don't know what your problem with mid to late round picks is...do you expect Buffalo to only have early picks? What else are they supposed to do with later round picks?

[MikeInRoch]

If you think using rookies to address immediate needs is addressing holes, you haven't been paying attention for the last 14 years or so.

It was literally not possible to address all the immediate needs of the team in this draft.

If you are saying rookies won't fill holes year 1, that is often true. But they should contribute some, and then they should contribute more as they gain experience.

[OpIv37]

It's worked fine for other teams like Baltimore, NE, Seattle, Pittsburgh, and GB (among others). The problem in Buffalo has always been the implementation of the method, taking/getting the wrong guys. That's on things like poor evaluations, poor decisions. Doesn't mean the overall strategy itself is poor.

How else are you supposed to fill holes? If you want to argue being aggressive in FA, the success rate for teams doing that is much lower than draft-focused teams. I don't know what your problem with mid to late round picks is...do you expect Buffalo to only have early picks? What else are they supposed to do with later round picks?
You can't address immediate needs with mid to late round picks. Those guys take time to develop.

All the teams you listed had enough talent to get by while they developed those mid to late round guys. We don't have that luxury. We need plug and play guys and we didn't get enough of them mad we sacrificed an opportunity to get one in the future.

[OpIv37]

It was literally not possible to address all the immediate needs of the team in this draft.

If you are saying rookies won't fill holes year 1, that is often true. But they should contribute some, and then they should contribute more as they gain experience.
Ok maybe you're right- maybe it wasn't possible.

End result: we still aren't good enough on the field to win.

[MikeInRoch]

Ok maybe you're right- maybe it wasn't possible.

End result: we still aren't good enough on the field to win.

Which AGAIN doesn't mean that mistakes were made in this draft. It means that mistakes have been made.