Is this team better than last years team?

[Mouldsie]

I say no.

[YardRat]

Was last year's team better than this year's team in May of 2013? That's the real question.

[YardRat]

Will next year's team be better than both this year's team and last year's team, or just better than last year but not this year, or better than this year but not last year, or worse than both?

[stuckincincy]

Will next year's team be better than both this year's team and last year's team, or just better than last year but not this year, or better than this year but not last year, or worse than both?

Waa?

I come before you to stand behind you. :bigwave:

[Night Train]

I say no.


This team on paper is tons better than last year. Now to go out and perform.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Will next year's team be better than both this year's team and last year's team, or just better than last year but not this year, or better than this year but not last year, or worse than both?

Mace, is that you?

[stuckincincy]

This team on paper is tons better than last year. Now to go out and perform.

Did the opposition gain a few tons of their own betterment? It might be a 6 - 10 wash...

[TacklingDummy]

1 game worse, 5-11.

Cleveland will enjoy it.

[better days]

I said yes.

Aren't no & about equal really the same response?

[stuckincincy]

No.

You know you have arrived when other teams start raiding your practice squad. Does anybody know the last time another team felt strongly enough about the Bills' peanut gallery to buy one of them and put that player on their active roster?

- - - Updated - - -


I said yes.

Aren't no & about equal really the same response?

Sure, if you are a Clinton.

[The Popcorn]

I think they are after the draft. I feel an 8-8 season. A young team that will make mistakes.

[pmoon6]

Ridiculous question. The players and coaches don't even know or would venture a guess. I except them to be competitive, just like last year. All you can ask.

Will they win more games? Again, we don't know given that the other teams may be better and their is the Football Gods...or Lady Luck, if you prefer.

John Madden once said and I'm paraphrasing. Picking a Super Bowl winner or even the participants is an exercise in the absurd. Then again, countless national sportswriters and bloggers make a pretty good living doing this kind of stupid ****.

Shows how gullible and bored the American public is.

[stuckincincy]

Ridiculous question. The players and coaches don't even know or would venture a guess. I except them to be competitive, just like last year. All you can ask.

Will they win more games? Again, we don't know given that the other teams may be better and their is the Football Gods...or Lady Luck, if you prefer.

John Madden once said and I'm paraphrasing. Picking a Super Bowl winner or even the participants is an exercise in the absurd. Then again, countless national sportswriters and bloggers make a pretty good living doing this kind of stupid ****.

Shows how gullible and bored the American public is.

Prisco's "grading" in CBS Sports' site is typical.

Most everybody is above average. So we tout the Bills as above average, so on and on it goes, and given enough time, superhuman draft class after draft class will eventually rectify all possible problems facing mankind.

Get with the plan!

[ICRockets]

No.

You know you have arrived when other teams start raiding your practice squad. Does anybody know the last time another team felt strongly enough about the Bills' peanut gallery to buy one of them and put that player on their active roster?


Wasn't Da'Rick Rogers on our practice squad before the Colts snagged him?

[bleve]

Is 2nd year EJ better than 1st year EJ?

That will tell the story.

[imbondz]

Right now this is the best team we've ever had. As for next week, next month who knows.

[Goobylal]

This is easily a better team than last year.

[BillsImpossible]

Generally speaking, 2nd year QB's perform better than their rookie season.

The Bills offensive line is bigger, better, and deeper.

Sammy Watkins makes every receiver better.

Defense got better with the addition of Spikes, and Graham, maybe even Preston Brown.

Coaching staff and system in place for over a year is better than starting from scratch.

Even the running back situation got better.

[coastal]

The lockerroom got significantly better with the departure of Stevie and Byrd.

[chris66]

to early to tell. going into last season I bet Houston didn't think they were a 2-14 team. have to play the games

[Mace]

Mace, is that you?

I sure wish I'd have said it.

[Mace]

I had to say yes simply because Colin Brown will not be starting at guard, glass Kolb isn't here, we have a QB coach if not a good one, and added some more Williamss, Williams's, Williams'es, Williamsi, whatever.

[bdutton]

I voted yes because they are undefeated so far and tied for the division lead. :-)

[elltrain22]

Let's rationalize this question a little bit...

Why it is not better/or the same as its been:
1. We lost Jairus Byrd & Steve Johnson, who were arguably the face of the franchise; whatever that means.
2. We lost some valuable depth on the defensive side of the ball with the loss of Carrington & Moats.
3. We still have Scott Chandler and no significant upgrade at Tight end; even though, last time I checked, he led our team in Rec Yds last year.
4. Are we good enough at QB to be consistent???

Why we ARE a better team:
1. To echo a comment that was already made, and to discount what I said earlier, we don't have Byrd or SJ in our locker room to disrupt chemistry or create distractions.
2. On paper, we have a much stronger front 7 that has been patterned to be better against the run.
3. Sammy Watkins does indeed make every WR better, he also makes EJ better, and our running game better.
4. Our O-line is bigger, and has a lot more depth than last year.
5. We have more depth in a lot of areas this year, and there should be a lot of TC competition, which is great.
6. EJ isn't as bad as some make him out to be. FAct is, he was a rookie last year, who didn't have the luxury of a long TC to process the info. He showed flashes of greatness last year, but also showed some flashes of being a rookie. I'm willing to give him another year, with a better WR core, and a better O-line, and another year under his belt to grasp the position.

Go Bills!!

[Figster]

The Bills most productive receiver was a TE last season. Buffalo addressed the need with the best WR/play maker in the draft.

The Bills also addressed the need for better Oline play in both the run and pass, and better run stopping capabilities on Defense.

Its the 2nd year into a new system on Offense, also the 2nd season for our starting QB , EJ Manuel,

The Buffalo Bills will field a much better football team in my opinion.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

I don't see how you could say no...

QB: EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel. Last year were: Rookie, 1 start vet, Rookie. This year are 2nd year player, Vet with 6 starts, 2nd year backup with 1 start.

RB: CJ, Fred and Choice or CJ, Fred and Brown. This year is better.

FB: Frank Summers remains

WR: Stevie/Woods/Goodwin/Graham/Easley vs Watkins/Williams/Woods/Goodwin not even close...This year by far

TE: Kept Chandler, added Moeaki. Until Moeaki does something I'll be modest and say wash but is there anybody that doubts Moeaki could be a good upgrade?

Oline: Glenn/Legurski/Wood/Urbik/Pears vs Glenn/Williams/Wood/Urbik vs Richardson/Kuandijo ...UPgraded

On D, they upgraded 2 linebacker positions and added depth at corner. Lost Byrd (Who they only had for 9 games last year)...

So the D maybe got slightly worse. Maybe.

I say the team is better.

[swiper]

Thread: Is this team better than last years team? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/223904-Is-this-team-better-than-last-years-team)

A better question is: is this team better than the 2012 team that Fitz QB'd? Answer: no. Big step back in QB has taken place. And Fitz wasn't ever any better than a glorified back-up.

[Goobylal]

I don't see how you could say no...

QB: EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel. Last year were: Rookie, 1 start vet, Rookie. This year are 2nd year player, Vet with 6 starts, 2nd year backup with 1 start.

RB: CJ, Fred and Choice or CJ, Fred and Brown. This year is better.

FB: Frank Summers remains

WR: Stevie/Woods/Goodwin/Graham/Easley vs Watkins/Williams/Woods/Goodwin not even close...This year by far

TE: Kept Chandler, added Moeaki. Until Moeaki does something I'll be modest and say wash but is there anybody that doubts Moeaki could be a good upgrade?

Oline: Glenn/Legurski/Wood/Urbik/Pears vs Glenn/Williams/Wood/Urbik vs Richardson/Kuandijo ...UPgraded

On D, they upgraded 2 linebacker positions and added depth at corner. Lost Byrd (Who they only had for 9 games last year)...

So the D maybe got slightly worse. Maybe.

I say the team is better.
Chandler is a year removed from his ACL injury/surgery, so that's an upgrade. And the additions on defense will outweigh the loss of Byrd, which will prove to be negligible.

A better question is: is this team better than the 2012 team that Fitz QB'd? Answer: no. Big step back in QB has taken place. And Fitz wasn't ever any better than a glorified back-up.
In 2012, Fitz was in his 8th year in the league and had 52 starts under his belt. Gee, I wonder why he looked better than EJ did as a rookie? Speaking of which, look at Fitz' stats as a rookie in 2005.

[Kenny]

I think coaching can make or break a team... I have a feeling the loss of Pettine will hurt a lot more than some people expect.

[Goobylal]

On paper, definitely...but EJ's still our QB, unfortunately.
I'm thinking you'll be eating these words.

I really wish we would take a flyer on Lyerla. Just kick him to the curb if he slips up, no risk involved. The reward could be great, however
He's still available. No one wants him, apparently.

[D'Angelo Vickers]

I don't see how people can compare EJ's first 10 games in the league to Fitzpatrick's 8th year in the league and try and pass that as a valid comparison.

I think EJ's ceiling is similar to a Matt Shaub or an Alex Smith. But to make a blanket statement after only 10 games in the league that Ryan Fitzpatrick is just better, that's idiotic.

I bet that guy was the #1 Fitz basher when he was here, too...

[trapezeus]

i agree that losing pettine is a big issue that we have to see how it resolves itself. yeah, we got a big time DC, but he runs a slightly different system and the personel that he likes is slightly different. we'll see how it all shakes out.

i see them about equal. they lost some pieces, they gained some talent.

it's hard to say. it all comes down to how a decent defense last year adjusts to the new scheme and if EJ can make a meaningful step forward

[better days]

i agree that losing pettine is a big issue that we have to see how it resolves itself. yeah, we got a big time DC, but he runs a slightly different system and the personel that he likes is slightly different. we'll see how it all shakes out.

i see them about equal. they lost some pieces, they gained some talent.

it's hard to say. it all comes down to how a decent defense last year adjusts to the new scheme and if EJ can make a meaningful step forward

I don't expect the defense to make as many big splash plays as last year.

I also don't expect the defense to be gouged by mediocre RB's this year like last year either.

[BB4ever]

In no way are we better. We changed def coordinators, got rid of stevie for a rookie, hackett couldnt figure how to use spiller in the end(dont think he will this year), and the hc made bad decision after bad decision going with the no huddle last year.

[EDS]

I think coaching can make or break a team... I have a feeling the loss of Pettine will hurt a lot more than some people expect.

Agreed, the transition to a new defensive coaching staff and scheme will have a huge impact on how the team performs in 2014.

Ulitmately, it is all about EJ though.

Finally, once new ownership is in place it will be interesting to see if that has any impact on the field - e.g., whether players check-out due to a lame-duck coaching staff, etc.

[Goobylal]

I don't see how people can compare EJ's first 10 games in the league to Fitzpatrick's 8th year in the league and try and pass that as a valid comparison.

I think EJ's ceiling is similar to a Matt Shaub or an Alex Smith. But to make a blanket statement after only 10 games in the league that Ryan Fitzpatrick is just better, that's idiotic.

I bet that guy was the #1 Fitz basher when he was here, too...
Tell me about it. EJ is a bust after 10 starts despite his struggles being the result of a ton of extenuating circumstances, and Fitz is a better QB because he had 1 decent season, in his 8th year, and after he had 52 starts under his belt. Shows you what we're dealing with at times here.

As for his ceiling, it's higher than just Schaub or Alex Smith.

In no way are we better. We changed def coordinators, got rid of stevie for a rookie, hackett couldnt figure how to use spiller in the end(dont think he will this year), and the hc made bad decision after bad decision going with the no huddle last year.
The Bills changed DC's before the 2013 season. Furthermore, Schwartz plans on keeping most of the same terminology, saw what worked with Pettine's defense, and added his own pieced in FA and the draft. As for Stevie, with the additions of Woods and Goodwin last year, Mike Williams during FA, and Watkins in the draft, he was pushed further down the depth chart. And last year he only produced 52 receptions for 597 yards and 3 TDs, so it's not like his production will be hard to duplicate. But I do agree about the no huddle and hope they ditch using it.

[jimmifli]

To me it comes down to two questions:

1. Do we have a QB. No need to elaborate. We've all had this discussion a million times. This is the season we find out.
2. Can we stop the run. There are two theories on why we struggled to stop the run. One theory is that our DTs are all penetrators, too light and the get boxed out creating holes. The other is that we had one LB playing in his natural position and only one guy with NFL starting talent (who was playing out of position). The coaches and GMs obviously feel the problem was at LB and made a few moves to fix that.

We will now have 3 LB's playing in the rights spot with 2 showing legit NFL starting talent(Spikes MLB and Kiko WLB). Then we've got Manny at SLB, he's alright, given our DL he should have an easy job rushing the passer yet he is still underwhelming. But he was OK against the run last season, if he's our weakest link we should be OK. I think Rivers is decent as a WLB but don't see him as the SLB - at least we've got some depth, he'll likely be on the field as our 2nd nickel LB with Kiko and I think those two will be fine stopping the run (and covering receivers).

So for me at least, this question was answered. Our Dline was elite. They consistently strung out run plays, we just gave up too many big ones, and couldn't stuff the hole on 3rd and short. We won't have that problem this season. This defence is top 10 and capable of taking a mediocre offence to the playoffs (I think that was probably the case last season too).

To answer the question, are we better - it all depends on EJ.

[better days]

I really don't understand how anyone could answer no/about the same.

The OL is UPGRADED!

The LB's are UPGRADED!

The WR's are UPGRADED!

The Vets have an extra year of experience!

This team is ABSOLUTELY BETTER than last year!

[SpikedLemonade]

It is definitely better than last year but so are the teams we play against.

If EJ gives us average QB play, I see us going 8-8.

That would be progress and keeps the coaching staff employed for the following year.

[stuckincincy]

I really don't understand how anyone could answer no/about the same.

The OL is UPGRADED!

The LB's are UPGRADED!

The WR's are UPGRADED!

The Vets have an extra year of experience!

This team is ABSOLUTELY BETTER than last year!

Did other teams the Bills play this year NOT upgrade?

[better days]

Did other teams the Bills play this year NOT upgrade?

Did ANYBODY say other teams did not upgrade?

A big fat NO to that!

The question was about the Bills, PERIOD.

[stuckincincy]

Did ANYBODY say other teams did not upgrade?

A big fat NO to that!

The question was about the Bills, PERIOD.

I SAY that other teams did update...PERIOD. Consider this a new thing in this thread.

Are the Bills UPDATES better than other teams? Don't tell us you don't know. You follow TB...told us often. As a start, compare TB's updates...FAs, draft etc. Better than BUF?

What say you?

[better days]

I SAY that other teams did update...PERIOD.

Are the Bills UPDATES better than other teams? Don't tell us you don't know. You follow TB...told us often. As a start, compare TB's updates...FAs, draft etc. Better than BUF?

What say you?

This thread is about the BILLS, PERIOD.

Did you see ANYTHING about other teams in the thread title?

If so, you are like some others on this board that can't read!

[justasportsfan]

Did other teams the Bills play this year NOT upgrade?
they did but that was not the question of the thread.

[stuckincincy]

This thread is about the BILLS, PERIOD.

Did you see ANYTHING about other teams in the thread title?

If so, you are like some others on this board that can't read!

Read my UPDATE of my post. Don't be a PEDANT. Be FLEXIBLE.

[stuckincincy]

they did but that was not the question of the thread.

Threads expand. If they didn't, this board would be no more than "It rained". With replies being "No. It did not rain."

The general idea being to explore ideas...

[justasportsfan]

Threads expand. If they didn't, this board would be no more than "It rained". With replies being "No. It did not rain."

The general idea being to explore ideas...


fair enough. So I'll tell you, they didn't improve more than the bills :homer:

[stuckincincy]

fair enough. So I'll tell you, they didn't improve more than the bills :homer:

They signed FAs DE Michael Johnson, LT Anthony Collins, drafted rookie WR Mike Evans and TE Austin Serefian-Jenkins. That looks good to me.

[justasportsfan]

They signed FAs DE Michael Johnson, LT Anthony Collins, drafted rookie WR Mike Evans and TE Austin Serefian-Jenkins. That looks good to me.

don't care :homer:

[stuckincincy]

don't care :homer:

So - another 6 -10?

[mayotm]

They signed FAs DE Michael Johnson, LT Anthony Collins, drafted rookie WR Mike Evans and TE Austin Serefian-Jenkins. That looks good to me.
Why would Bills fans care if the Bucs improved or not? The Bills don't play the Bucs and they are in the NFC.

[justasportsfan]

So - another 6 -10?

Nope. Another sb loss :homer:

[stuckincincy]

Why would Bills fans care if the Bucs improved or not? The Bills don't play the Bucs and they are in the NFC.

Because one normally looks at the whole picture. TB plays 4 AFC teams. BUF competes in the AFC. If TB was 0 and 4 against the AFC (they play the AFC North), then perhaps an AFC North aces BUF out for a wild card. If TB whacks the AFC North, so much the better.

[mayotm]

Because one normally looks at the whole picture. TB plays 4 AFC teams. BUF competes in the AFC. If TB was 0 and 4 against the AFC (they play the AFC North), then perhaps an AFC North aces BUF out for a wild card. If TB whacks the AFC North, so much the better.
I see. You're actually worried about the Bucs perceived improvement because they play your Bengals this year.

[better days]

Because one normally looks at the whole picture. TB plays 4 AFC teams. BUF competes in the AFC. If TB was 0 and 4 against the AFC (they play the AFC North), then perhaps an AFC North aces BUF out for a wild card. If TB whacks the AFC North, so much the better.

Well, as a Bucs fan as well as a Bills fan, I am happy with the drafts of both teams.

Watkins & Evans, the two best WR's in the draft both drafted by my teams, what's not to like?

[stuckincincy]

Well, as a Bucs fan as well as a Bills fan, I am happy with the drafts of both teams.

Watkins & Evans, the two best WR's in the draft both drafted by my teams, what's not to like?

The Bucs are going to make noise this season.

[better days]

The Bucs are going to make noise this season.

If the Bills can get anything out of EJ, they will as well.

As Lovie said, every year a few teams make a jump up the standings.

[BB4ever]

In no way until ej puts together a string of 7 consecutive starts.

[Historian]

Yes.

Here's my take:

First, the staff: The coaches are now in their second year, they have bought their homes and moved their families. Their focus is now 100% football. I believe Schwartz is an upgrade from Pettine.

Offense: Significant upgrade to the WR position, added to the ground game, and both QBs now have a year of experience in the speed of the pro game. They will both get better.

Defense: Upgraded the LB position. Losing Byrd hurts but the D was clearly carrying the team last year. I expect that to continue.

ST: Glad they resigned Carpenter. He was a real asset last year. Consistency.

Schedule: Tough, but not brutal. BYE is kind of late for healing purposes. Stadium improvements should be fun for fans, and players alike.

I believe this is a 9-7 team that will be even more fun to watch than last year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I believe Schwartz is an upgrade from Pettine.

Please elaborate.

[Historian]

He's run the whole show, and he did not exactly slip into a cushy position with the Redskins or Cowboys.

He rebuilt one of the sorriest teams in all of professional sports.

Having a coordinator with Head coaching experience is a big asset for a young(er) guy like Marrone.

The defense may not be as sexy as last year, (57 sacks) but it will be stingy. Especially on third down.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's been a week since the draft and Sammy Watkins has yet to catch a single pass. The players are so lazy they haven't been to a single practice. What a disaster this season has been so far. :hitself:

[Mahdi]

I have to say NO this team is not better than last year's.

1. We lost a PB safety

2. We didn't get better at TE or LG with proven talent. Two positions which were problems last year.

3. We didn't get better at RT. Kouandjio has to beat out the average Pears.

4. Manuel is still a big unknown

5. We lost a proven player in Stevie. He has had 2 or 3 big drops but he was also our best clutch receiver on 3rd down.

6. We lost Pettine.

If you consider the GAINS vs the LOSSES it looks like a break even to me. Adding Watkins, Spikes, and Cyrus balances out our player losses, Schwartz will probably tighten up the run D but will also probably allow more time to QBs to find targets.

In the end I see a 6-10 team, 8-8 at best if EJ is slightly better.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He's run the whole show, and he did not exactly slip into a cushy position with the Redskins or Cowboys.

Huh?


He rebuilt one of the sorriest teams in all of professional sports.

Rebuilt them to what, exactly? They had one winning season in 5.

[better days]

I have to say NO this team is not better than last year's.

1. We lost a PB safety

2. We didn't get better at TE or LG with proven talent. Two positions which were problems last year.

3. We didn't get better at RT. Kouandjio has to beat out the average Pears.

4. Manuel is still a big unknown

5. We lost a proven player in Stevie. He has had 2 or 3 big drops but he was also our best clutch receiver on 3rd down.

6. We lost Pettine.

If you consider the GAINS vs the LOSSES it looks like a break even to me. Adding Watkins, Spikes, and Cyrus balances out our player losses, Schwartz will probably tighten up the run D but will also probably allow more time to QBs to find targets.

In the end I see a 6-10 team, 8-8 at best if EJ is slightly better.

1. He did not play in any more games than EJ did last year & the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

2. IMPROVED at LG over what we had last year. Signed a Vet & drafted a Guard.

3. We didn't get better at RT? SERIOUSLY? Kujo may have to beat out a healthy Hairston, but Pears? Get SERIOUS.
And if Pears beats him out, it means Pears is playing 100% better than last year, so yeah, the OL is IMPROVED.

4. Agreed, but if anything, I think he shows improvement.

5. Stevie had a down year last year. I expect Watkins to do better than the 52 catches, 597 yds & 3 TD's Stevie put up last year.

6. We lost Pettine but GAINED Schwartz.

Adding Watkins, Spikes, etc. will IMPROVE this team.

[stuckincincy]

If the Bills can get anything out of EJ, they will as well.

As Lovie said, every year a few teams make a jump up the standings.

If the Bucs get half-way decent QB play, they are in the hunt.

[Woodman]

The QB is the huge question mark.

For the 1st time in many years we have a legit number one WR.

I'm hoping Spikes hits it big.

I love the Bryce Brown pickup.

The O-Line should be improved.

So are we better?

It would appear in my 8 Ball that the answer is YES!

[Historian]

Huh?

A team that has an owner with deep pockets who traditionally spends a lot. Back in the day Wash-Dal were elite teams.



Rebuilt them to what, exactly? They had one winning season in 5.

He changed the culture in Detroit. They came from oblivion, a laughingstock to be a real force in the NFC for the first time since the Sanders days. (Barry not Charlie) That IMO is good coaching.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A team that has an owner with deep pockets who traditionally spends a lot. Back in the day Wash-Dal were elite teams.

Back in the 1990s? Sure, Dallas and Washington spend a lot, but I would never in a thousand years describe working under Snyder or Jones as "cushy." And that being said, Detroit does spend money. They have been pushing up against the salary cap for years. Now, some of that are their pre-cap Top 5 picks and Johnson's mega deal, but they've also brought in guys like Tulloch and Bush.


He changed the culture in Detroit. They came from oblivion, a laughingstock to be a real force in the NFC for the first time since the Sanders days. (Barry not Charlie) That IMO is good coaching.

Yes, he took over a team that was 0-16 after the worst season in NFL history. But he only took them to a 29-51 record in five years. By contrast, the the Buffalo Bills had four head coaches in that span and went 28-52. For further contrast, those same Lions went 26-54 over the 5 years prior to the 0-16 flameout.

I think you are making the classic mistake of overrating Detroit in the offseason. People look up and down that roster and see so much individual talent (Johnson! Suh! Ansah! Stafford! Bush!) but the whole always seems to be less than the sum of its parts once they are on the field. That to me indicates bad coaching. For the last several years, Detroit has been carried by its offense. If you want to credit Schwartz for that as the head coach, that's fine by me. But that's not the position he's occupying here.

[justasportsfan]

Offense: Significant upgrade to the WR position, added to the ground game, and both QBs now have a year of experience in the speed of the pro game. They will both get better.

I hope that having a designated QB coach will help EJ and THad tremendously and help Hackett just concentrate of game planning as well .

We may not need EJ to play like a probowler this year for us to make playoffs. As long as we have a great D and running game EJ just needs to be efficient .

[Historian]

You realize that if Marrone falls on his face, chances are very good that Schwartz is the next HC, right?

[Mahdi]

1. He did not play in any more games than EJ did last year & the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

2. IMPROVED at LG over what we had last year. Signed a Vet & drafted a Guard.

3. We didn't get better at RT? SERIOUSLY? Kujo may have to beat out a healthy Hairston, but Pears? Get SERIOUS.
And if Pears beats him out, it means Pears is playing 100% better than last year, so yeah, the OL is IMPROVED.

4. Agreed, but if anything, I think he shows improvement.

5. Stevie had a down year last year. I expect Watkins to do better than the 52 catches, 597 yds & 3 TD's Stevie put up last year.

6. We lost Pettine but GAINED Schwartz.

Adding Watkins, Spikes, etc. will IMPROVE this team.


1. He played in enough games to have a significant impact on our defense. He made plays. Something EJ didnt in the same amount of games.

2. We did not improve yet. Legursky is the incumbent starter at LG so the INCONSISTENT Williams will have to beat him out or Cyril will have to beat him out.

3. How do you know last year's Pears won't beat out Cyrus and Hairston? Cyrus is a rookie with question marks regarding foot speed and Hairston is coming off 2 years of injuries. Pears might win by default.

4. Improvement over the terrible performances EJ had last year will get us what? 2 more FGs? EJ has major accuracy problems, a problem you rarely see fixed in the NFL.

5. Stevie had a down year due to injuries and EJ missing passes all over the place. Take Stevie out who was a dynamic weapon and now you have a rookie, an inconsistent Williams and Woods who was very up and down and also entering sophomore year.

6. Please don't act like Schwartz is an upgrade. He had loads of talent on his defense and it still couldn't stop anyone. At least Pettine made our defense tough to play against. If our offense had scored some points maybe opposing offenses wouldn't be running the ball on us 35 times a game till they broke 200 yards.

I like our additions of Watkins and Spikes, don't understand Williams, and Rivers is ok. Overall, we are not much different than we were last year.

[Mahdi]

You realize that if Marrone falls on his face, chances are very good that Schwartz is the next HC, right?

This is Buffalo. We definitely realize that...

That or we'll get Pettine's LB coach in Cleveland to be our HC, then there will be stories and articles on BB.com about how well he knows our players and the defense will be familiar to them, and we're going to the playoffs.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You realize that if Marrone falls on his face, chances are very good that Schwartz is the next HC, right?

When was the last time we promoted our own coordinator to permanent hc? I honestly don't remember.

[Historian]

More pertinent question would be, When was the last time we went outside the organization for a coordinator that just happened to have HC Exp and could slip right in?

I believe it was Wade.

Noteworthy promotions to HC:

Hank Bullough 1985
Kay Stevenson 1983
Jim Ringo 1977
Harvey Johnson 1971
Harvey Johnson 1968
Joe Collier 1966

[Ginger Vitis]

When was the last time we promoted our own coordinator to permanent hc? I honestly don't remember.

Wade Phillips

[better days]

1. He played in enough games to have a significant impact on our defense. He made plays. Something EJ didnt in the same amount of games.

2. We did not improve yet. Legursky is the incumbent starter at LG so the INCONSISTENT Williams will have to beat him out or Cyril will have to beat him out.

3. How do you know last year's Pears won't beat out Cyrus and Hairston? Cyrus is a rookie with question marks regarding foot speed and Hairston is coming off 2 years of injuries. Pears might win by default.

4. Improvement over the terrible performances EJ had last year will get us what? 2 more FGs? EJ has major accuracy problems, a problem you rarely see fixed in the NFL.

5. Stevie had a down year due to injuries and EJ missing passes all over the place. Take Stevie out who was a dynamic weapon and now you have a rookie, an inconsistent Williams and Woods who was very up and down and also entering sophomore year.

6. Please don't act like Schwartz is an upgrade. He had loads of talent on his defense and it still couldn't stop anyone. At least Pettine made our defense tough to play against. If our offense had scored some points maybe opposing offenses wouldn't be running the ball on us 35 times a game till they broke 200 yards.

I like our additions of Watkins and Spikes, don't understand Williams, and Rivers is ok. Overall, we are not much different than we were last year.

1. Significant impact? WHAT significant impact? 6-10, Byrd made no more an impact than EJ did. And he had the same number of INT's as Jim Leonhard did, 4.

And 2 of Byrds 4 INT's came in one game against the Jets. EJ absolutely made as much an impact as Byrd did last year.

2. Legursky was the starter by DEFAULT last year. Do you REALLY think he has any hope of starting this year?

If so, I would like to make a bet with you. OL is IMPROVED, you will see.

3. Same as Legursky, Pears was Starter by default last year.

I would be happy to bet you Pears will NOT start this year.

4. With IMPROVED OL & WR's, the Bills will put up more points this year.

5. I already listed Stevie's numbers from last year. MEDIOCRE numbers. I'm not blaming Stevie, he was injured, but his production last year will be EXCEEDED this year by Watkins, IMPROVED.

6. Couldn't stop anyone? The Lions had one of the best run defenses in the entire NFL last year.

It remains to be seen how much an upgrade Schwartz will be, but I don't expect the Bills to have a worse defense than last year.

I expect a more balanced defense that stops both the run & pass this year.

Pettine made the Bills tough to throw against. Tough to run against? Not so much.

Kiko was a huge addition last year. I expect Spikes, Watkins & improved OL play to account for a big improvement this year.

10-6 instead of 6-10.

[Ginger Vitis]

More pertinent question would be, When was the last time we went outside the organization for a coordinator that just happened to have HC Exp and could slip right in?

I believe it was Wade.







Under that scenario I think it Dick Jauron

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Considering that not a down of meaningful football has been played, let alone training camp and off season workouts, well I cannot judge. I think we got worse at DB with the loss of Byrd, and while I think losing Joker will hurt us, I think that all in all we are about the same in the receiving corps. Really, its too damn early to tell. Ask me in September or October.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

More pertinent question would be, When was the last time we went outside the organization for a coordinator that just happened to have HC Exp and could slip right in?

I believe it was Wade.

Dave Wannestadt. Indeed he was even made assistant head coach, and many thought he was going to succeed Gailey.

His head coach experience was sold as a positive then too.


Noteworthy promotions to HC:

Hank Bullough 1985
Kay Stevenson 1983
Jim Ringo 1977
Harvey Johnson 1971
Harvey Johnson 1968
Joe Collier 1966

So the most recent was Wade in 1998?

[swiper]

1. Significant impact? WHAT significant impact? 6-10, Byrd made no more an impact than EJ did. And he had the same number of INT's as Jim Leonhard did, 4.

And 2 of Byrds 4 INT's came in one game against the Jets. EJ absolutely made as much an impact as Byrd did last year.

2. Legursky was the starter by DEFAULT last year. Do you REALLY think he has any hope of starting this year?

If so, I would like to make a bet with you. OL is IMPROVED, you will see.

3. Same as Legursky, Pears was Starter by default last year.

I would be happy to bet you Pears will NOT start this year.

4. With IMPROVED OL & WR's, the Bills will put up more points this year.

5. I already listed Stevie's numbers from last year. MEDIOCRE numbers. I'm not blaming Stevie, he was injured, but his production last year will be EXCEEDED this year by Watkins, IMPROVED.

6. Couldn't stop anyone? The Lions had one of the best run defenses in the entire NFL last year.

It remains to be seen how much an upgrade Schwartz will be, but I don't expect the Bills to have a worse defense than last year.

I expect a more balanced defense that stops both the run & pass this year.

Pettine made the Bills tough to throw against. Tough to run against? Not so much.

Kiko was a huge addition last year. I expect Spikes, Watkins & improved OL play to account for a big improvement this year.

10-6 instead of 6-10.

Groan. So much wrong in this post it's just stupid.

Did Pears, Stevie Johnson, CJ Spiller, ans Scott Chandler have down years? Sure. When previously solid players under Gailey all the sudden are not good it's on the coach, or the rookie QB.

And it's amazingly ******ed to claim the OL and WRs are upgraded before they've played a single down.

Stupid.

[better days]

Groan. So much wrong in this post it's just stupid.

Did Pears, Stevie Johnson, CJ Spiller, ans Scott Chandler have down years? Sure. When previously solid players under Gailey all the sudden are not good it's on the coach, or the rookie QB.

And it's amazingly ******ed to claim the OL and WRs are upgraded before they've played a single down.

Stupid.

I am PROJECTING the New additions will be an IMPROVEMENT on the MEDIOCRE players that have been here.

I had a similar argument with Op about the WR's last year.

He said the Bills were worse off getting rid of Donald Jones & David Nelson in favor of ROOKIES who were unproven.

I said I will take a talented rookie over a MEDIOCRE vet any day. I was proven correct last year. Woods & Goodwin are MUCH BETTER than Jones & Nelson.

I expect to be correct again!

Your post is ******ED! Anyone with any knowledge of football can see this team added TALENT this off season.

Lost Byrd, but he is the only loss of a GOOD player. Most teams have lost much more than the Bills this offseason.

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

The Bills have picked up some good players in the draft and FAgency not to mention everyone is healthy right now, so last years group has more experience and we improved our defensive seven against the run so we should be considerably better than last year. Getting everyone on the same page defensively might take a bit to jell but I see an improvement. 9-7 this season! Playoffs? Not quite sure about that yet.

[Goobylal]

Unless you think every addition the Bills made will bust, this team is most certainly improved over last year.

[swiper]

I am PROJECTING the New additions will be an IMPROVEMENT on the MEDIOCRE players that have been here.

I had a similar argument with Op about the WR's last year.

He said the Bills were worse off getting rid of Donald Jones & David Nelson in favor of ROOKIES who were unproven.

I said I will take a talented rookie over a MEDIOCRE vet any day. I was proven correct last year. Woods & Goodwin are MUCH BETTER than Jones & Nelson.

I expect to be correct again!

Your post is ******ED! Anyone with any knowledge of football can see this team added TALENT this off season.

Lost Byrd, but he is the only loss of a GOOD player. Most teams have lost much more than the Bills this offseason.


Your posts are the only ******ed ones here.

Comparing an argument you had about other players in another season with another poster. ******ed. Hands down ******ed. But what else could one expect from you? Not too much.

[swiper]

Unless you think every addition the Bills made will bust, this team is most certainly improved over last year.

It's a good team with a lousy QB. They are no better than 6-10. Probably 5-11.

[better days]

Your posts are the only ******ed ones here.

Comparing an argument you had about other players in another season with another poster. ******ed. Hands down ******ed. But what else could one expect from you? Not too much.

You are a TROLL. Every SPORTS station on radio & TV is talking about the same things I am.

Comparing teams, how they have improved in the off season.

You are ******ed to think you can not project how a team will do in the coming year based on moves made in the off season.

As I said, now that the draft is over, that is what EVERYONE in the media is talking about.

And Op made the same STUPID argument last year that you made this year, a VALID comparison.

[swiper]

LOL.

You wanna see a troll then go look in the mirror. Homer troll.

Everybody talked about Mike Williams.

Everybody talked about Losman & McCargo.

Everybody talked anout Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker.

Everybody talked about Donte Whitner & Paul Posluzny.

Blah. Blah. Blah.

How the **** do you know any player in this draft will succeed? Answer: You don't. The only gimme is Watkins. And when he gets overthrown, underthrown and thrown behind to, he'll get tired of being in Buffalo.

And try stop being angry over an argument you had with another poster over a year ago about a different topic. You look foolish.

[Goobylal]

It's a good team with a lousy QB. They are no better than 6-10. Probably 5-11.
No, it's a developing team with a young QB. Hopefully they added enough pieces and EJ progresses, as many 2nd year QBs do.

[swiper]

What makes you think this will be any different than all the past developing teams with young QBs?

[better days]

LOL.

You wanna see a troll then go look in the mirror. Homer troll.

Everybody talked about Mike Williams.

Everybody talked about Losman & McCargo.

Everybody talked anout Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker.

Everybody talked about Donte Whitner & Paul Posluzny.

Blah. Blah. Blah.

How the **** do you know any player in this draft will succeed? Answer: You don't. The only gimme is Watkins. And when he gets overthrown, underthrown and thrown behind to, he'll get tired of being in Buffalo.

And try stop being angry over an argument you had with another poster over a year ago about a different topic. You look foolish.

You are the TROLL. Calling people names like a little girl because you lose an intelligent argument.

Yes NOBODY can say if a player will succeed or not, but that does not mean it is ******ed to project how they will do.

As I said, EVERYONE is doing that at this time.

If you want to take the position Watkins is the only player that will succeed, fine.

My position is The Bills now have better options on the team at RT & LG than they had last year & the OL will be IMPROVED from last year.

I think the LB group & WR group are improved as well.

Could I be wrong? Certainly I could.

But I have faith that Whaley & his guys acquired players in the off season that will IMPROVE the team.

[Goobylal]

What makes you think this will be any different than all the past developing teams with young QBs?
I don't know about other teams, but Losman and Edwards improved markedly between their first years of extended action and their 2nd years. And EJ isn't a moron like JP and hopefully won't get his brains scrambled like Trent did. Plus EJ will have far better weapons around him.

[jamze132]

Much improved!!!

7-9 is almost a lock at this point.

[jills]

I have to say NO this team is not better than last year's.

1. We lost a PB safety

2. We didn't get better at TE or LG with proven talent. Two positions which were problems last year.

3. We didn't get better at RT. Kouandjio has to beat out the average Pears.

4. Manuel is still a big unknown

5. We lost a proven player in Stevie. He has had 2 or 3 big drops but he was also our best clutch receiver on 3rd down.

6. We lost Pettine.

If you consider the GAINS vs the LOSSES it looks like a break even to me. Adding Watkins, Spikes, and Cyrus balances out our player losses, Schwartz will probably tighten up the run D but will also probably allow more time to QBs to find targets.

In the end I see a 6-10 team, 8-8 at best if EJ is slightly better.

Good to see an objective post.

[Goobylal]

Good to see an objective post.
Pessimism is not synonymous with objective.

[Goobylal]

Sorry, that should have said "pessimistic is not synonymous with objective."

[Herd bull]

Let's rationalize this question a little bit...

Why it is not better/or the same as its been:
1. We lost Jairus Byrd & Steve Johnson, who were arguably the face of the franchise; whatever that means.
2. We lost some valuable depth on the defensive side of the ball with the loss of Carrington & Moats.
3. We still have Scott Chandler and no significant upgrade at Tight end; even though, last time I checked, he led our team in Rec Yds last year.
4. Are we good enough at QB to be consistent???

Why we ARE a better team:
1. To echo a comment that was already made, and to discount what I said earlier, we don't have Byrd or SJ in our locker room to disrupt chemistry or create distractions.
2. On paper, we have a much stronger front 7 that has been patterned to be better against the run.
3. Sammy Watkins does indeed make every WR better, he also makes EJ better, and our running game better.
4. Our O-line is bigger, and has a lot more depth than last year.
5. We have more depth in a lot of areas this year, and there should be a lot of TC competition, which is great.
6. EJ isn't as bad as some make him out to be. FAct is, he was a rookie last year, who didn't have the luxury of a long TC to process the info. He showed flashes of greatness last year, but also showed some flashes of being a rookie. I'm willing to give him another year, with a better WR core, and a better O-line, and another year under his belt to grasp the position.

Go Bills!!
This is a good answer. I agree. Wish I had said it!

[Mouldsie]

The race is still on

[swiper]

I don't know about other teams, but Losman and Edwards improved markedly between their first years of extended action and their 2nd years. And EJ isn't a moron like JP and hopefully won't get his brains scrambled like Trent did. Plus EJ will have far better weapons around him.

Yet JP saw the field more.

[Fletch]

Is this team better than last years team? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/223904-Is-this-team-better-than-last-years-team/page5)

The offense scores less. The defense has allowed fewer yards and points but cannot stop good offensive teams.

Manuel's been proven a bust and Watkins hasn't stepped up to do what Whaley said he would.

Defensively, while sacks are consistent, most of our INTs and TOs in general are against poor offensive teams. The DL carries this defense. Over the past four weeks our rushing defense has allowed an average of 146 ypg and 5.3 ypc and 5 TDs however. Not sure this bodes well for the duration of the season except for vs. the Raiders who may be the league's second ever 0-16 team.

[coastal]

**** it all

[upstart]

As a Pats fan I'd say this team is better. The problem is you need a coaching staff. The Bills have a ton of talent they just lack direction.

[stuckincincy]

The offense scores less. The defense has allowed fewer yards and points but cannot stop good offensive teams.

Manuel's been proven a bust and Watkins hasn't stepped up to do what Whaley said he would.

Defensively, while sacks are consistent, most of our INTs and TOs in general are against poor offensive teams. The DL carries this defense. Over the past four weeks our rushing defense has allowed an average of 146 ypg and 5.3 ypc and 5 TDs however. Not sure this bodes well for the duration of the season except for vs. the Raiders who may be the league's second ever 0-16 team.

They are at the bottom of the barrel in red zone performance:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

I know that Orton isn't swift, but a roll-out and cut to the center can gain yards. Make the opposing D nervous, next down. Chandler's not a top TE but only 26 snags and 1 touchdown?