If you think the Bills gave up too much...

[JoeMama]

YOU'RE A STUPID ****ING BABY.

We drafted like a team that's concerned about winning today instead of tomorrow. Remember what it's like to care about the present instead of the future? No, you don't? That's because you're a Bills fan and haven't thought about winning in 14 years.

This was the aggressive, balls out move we've been waiting for, and some of you gaywads are totally upset like it's a bad thing.

Sack up, losers. Trading up was awesome.

+1 to the Bills for getting their guy.

[BertSquirtgum]

If you make threads calling people names because of their opinions you are a douche bag.

[Bill Cody]

It feels good. But I expect it will feel bad next year. Rookie receivers rarely make a big impact. This one had better.

[JoeMama]

If you make threads calling people names because of their opinions you are a douche bag.

You're doing it right now.

[Bill Cody]

As crucial as hitting on Watkins is, the Bills need to hit big on at least one and hopefully 2 of those big online picks. That may turn out as big a deal to this year's team as Watkins

[BertSquirtgum]

You're doing it right now.

I made an entire thread about it? This thread reeks of you being bored looking for a fight.

[JoeMama]

As crucial as hitting on Watkins is, the Bills need to hit big on at least one and hopefully 2 of those big online picks. That may turn out as big a deal to this year's team as Watkins

The message it sent was bigger than the message itself.

Whether or not Watkins pans out is almost secondary to me.

We're actually trying to win now. Finally.

[JoeMama]

I made an entire thread about it? This thread reeks of you being bored looking for a fight.

OK, fine.

Be pissed off that we did something smart for once.

What do you want from me, a hug?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Between the start of the 1st round and the start of the 2nd round, this was our net gains/losses.

LOSSED

2014 1st Round Pick
2015 1st Round Pick
2015 4th Round Pick
Stevie Johnson


GAINED

Sammy Watkins
2015 4th Round Pick (maybe 3rd Round but it never seems to work that way for us)


That's where I have a problem. Drafting Sammy Watkins basically cost us Stevie Johnson and 2 1st round picks. I hope he's worth it.

[JoeMama]

Poor choice of words. You're confusing risky with smart. I applaud the fact that they had the stones to try something different, but it was an incredibly dicey move considering that Watkins success is largely tied to our subpar QB. I hope to hell it pays off though, or we're up ****'s creek w/o a paddle

Well I'll live with my choice of words.

EJ isn't my QB of choice but we've clearly thrown our lot with him out there.

He has zero excuses if he fails.

[Ed]

Sammy Watkins was my favorite player in this draft. It's pretty hard to be upset at your team for aggressively going after a top prospect like that. It was a steep price to pay, but if Watkins ends up becoming the player everyone thinks he's going to be, no one will care. If Watkins ends up being a bust then so be it. It's not like this team ever makes the playoffs when it keeps its picks or trades back to get more picks. So why not be bold and get the guy you really want the most?

[BertSquirtgum]

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Sammy_Watkins_on_joining_the_Bills/b4eaf4b8-8250-416f-99f5-5b5dbbf770d8

[Meathead]

Drafting Sammy Watkins basically cost us Stevie Johnson and 2 1st round picks. I hope he's worth it.

stevie had nuthin to do with taking watkins. they basically swapped stevie for whatshisname RB from philthy

of course two firsts and a fourth is way expensive enough for one guy. he better be damn good

[BertSquirtgum]

stevie had nuthin to do with taking watkins. they basically swapped stevie for whatshisname RB from philthy

of course two firsts and a fourth is way expensive enough for one guy. he better be damn good

By drafting watkins they trade steve. So yes taking watkins had everything to do with steve. Should have stayed at 9 and drafted ebron.

[Parzival]

Between the start of the 1st round and the start of the 2nd round, this was our net gains/losses.

LOSSED

2014 1st Round Pick
2015 1st Round Pick
2015 4th Round Pick
Stevie Johnson


GAINED

Sammy Watkins
2015 4th Round Pick (maybe 3rd Round but it never seems to work that way for us)


That's where I have a problem. Drafting Sammy Watkins basically cost us Stevie Johnson and 2 1st round picks. I hope he's worth it.

Ridiculous. We gave up one 1st rd pick and one 4th rd pick for Watkins. we didn't "lose" our 2014 pick, we used it on the best WR in the draft.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Ridiculous. We gave up one 1st rd pick and one 4th rd pick for Watkins. we didn't "lose" our 2014 pick, we used it on the best WR in the draft.

We used two 1st round picks and a 4th. If draft picks are currency, then we paid an awful lot for a WR. Whether that was a mistake or not, we'll have to wait to find out, and it's far from a sure bet. This was an extremely high risk move.

[WagonCircler]

YOU'RE A STUPID ****ING BABY..

^^^This would be the very definition of irony, supplanting my previous favorite "All extremists should be killed!"

[Luisito23]

2014 1st Round Pick
2015 1st Round Pick



Still with this BS about losing two 1st. rounders...Wonder when people will get it through their dense hard heads that the Bills did not lose two 1st. round picks.

Pisses me off to keep on hearing this over and over again.

[Night Train]

Still with this BS about losing two 1st. rounders...Wonder when people will get it through their dense hard heads that the Bills did not lose two 1st. round picks.

Pisses me off to keep on hearing this over and over again.

Agreed. A new level of stupidity, which never seems to amaze me here. I'll have my 13 year old teach them math.


After all the wheeling and dealing, the Bills lost next years 1st rounder. I like the gamble, since the prize was Watkins.

Later, they will have to pay for Brown but I view him as a good middle round draft pick a year or 2 early.

[swiper]

YOU'RE A STUPID ****ING BABY.

We drafted like a team that's concerned about winning today instead of tomorrow. Remember what it's like to care about the present instead of the future? No, you don't? That's because you're a Bills fan and haven't thought about winning in 14 years.

This was the aggressive, balls out move we've been waiting for, and some of you gaywads are totally upset like it's a bad thing.

Sack up, losers. Trading up was awesome.

+1 to the Bills for getting their guy.

Mike Florio disagrees.


It was a bold move by G.M. Doug Whaley. Some would call it insanity to give up that much for an unproven receiver.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/11/bills-should-have-simply-made-a-run-at-jimmy-graham/

[GingerP]

Still with this BS about losing two 1st. rounders...Wonder when people will get it through their dense hard heads that the Bills did not lose two 1st. round picks.

Pisses me off to keep on hearing this over and over again.

They allocated 2 1sts and a 4th to select 1 player, Watkins. That can't be disputed.

[TacklingDummy]

After all the wheeling and dealing, the Bills lost next years 1st rounder. I like the gamble, since the prize was Watkins.



Would you use the 4th overall pick and next years 1st round pick on Michael Crabtree?

[Fletch]

It feels good. But I expect it will feel bad next year. Rookie receivers rarely make a big impact. This one had better.

Whaley also foolishly married himself to Manuel last year, so who's going to be getting Watkins the ball so that he can even be the best rookie WR this year, it sure as hell ain't gonna be Manuel. Whaley should have researched Manuel a bit more.

Rookie WRs very rarely hit 1,000 yards, most don't even come close to that. If they really wanted to win now they shouldn't have dished Stevie for a 4th. Yeah yeah, "at least we get something for him." But isn't it about win now? Then why do we care about a 4th, as if our 4th rounders since Whaley's been here have done anything significant at all, when we could have had Stevie for one more season.

Florio also lays it down, if it were all about winning now, why not have picked up Graham, the most prolific and a very well polished ready-to-go TE?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/11/bills-should-have-simply-made-a-run-at-jimmy-graham/

This whole Watkins win-now thing is purely for koolaid drinkers. He'll be lucky to hit 800 yards and 8 TDs, which is less than Stevie averaged over his last 4 seasons here, especially with Manuel throwing. Manuel's the problem, not the receivers.

It'll take getting whacked by that proverbial two-by-four for some to catch onto that. That should occur sometime in October.

[Fletch]

The message it sent was bigger than the message itself.

Whether or not Watkins pans out is almost secondary to me.

We're actually trying to win now. Finally.

And you agree with Whaley, that we were a WR away? Because that's essentially what he said. He said that this will propel us into the playoffs.

As someone where I read put it, he swung for the fences, let's see where the ball lands, but there is no precedent for a 6' WR doing this. Once again this FO, aka Whaley, is smarter than the rest of the league and than all conventional football wisdom and a trend setter.

Now, what are the odds of that being the case?

Some people just take a little longer to catch on. Some much longer and only after it becomes blatant. I think you're in that last category.

[Historian]

I like Whaley's spirit. He's a young dynamic gm who understands the cap, as well as the modern player.

It's also pretty clear who's calling the personnel shots at 1BD.....and it's not the octogenarians anymore.

I applaud the move.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Still with this BS about losing two 1st. rounders...Wonder when people will get it through their dense hard heads that the Bills did not lose two 1st. round picks.

Pisses me off to keep on hearing this over and over again.

What? So you're saying that there's no value to where you draft a player? When you use a draft pick, you're exchanging that player for that draft pick. Jadaveon Clowney cost the Texans their 1st round draft pick, that was the transaction. We absolutely used 2 1st round picks on Sammy Watkins.

Are you saying that there's no difference with selecting a player in the 1st round vs any other round? That Cyrus Kouandjio and Seantrel Henderson cost the Bills the same amount? With that amount being free?

My point was simply to look at our NET loss/gain before the 2nd round started, and that info is not opinion. What if we had used those picks/player in a trade? I believe we could've got a lot. How good of a receiver do you think we could have got if we offered 2 1st round picks and Stevie Johnson as trade bait? Would that player be less risky that Sammy Watkins? Would Sammy Watkins be better? I don't know.

[JoeMama]

And you agree with Whaley, that we were a WR away? Because that's essentially what he said. He said that this will propel us into the playoffs.

As someone where I read put it, he swung for the fences, let's see where the ball lands, but there is no precedent for a 6' WR doing this. Once again this FO, aka Whaley, is smarter than the rest of the league and than all conventional football wisdom and a trend setter.

Now, what are the odds of that being the case?

Some people just take a little longer to catch on. Some much longer and only after it becomes blatant. I think you're in that last category.

I do not care. I'm just happy we mortgaged the future on something.

"Next year" has become this meaningless auto-response for why we don't do anything now. The fact that we gave up something tangible next year for a player today is great because it defies conventional Bills wisdom.

If Watkins winds up being a bust it will still be a Pyrrhic victory. At least we were willing to gamble.

[OpIv37]

YOU'RE A STUPID ****ING BABY.

We drafted like a team that's concerned about winning today instead of tomorrow. Remember what it's like to care about the present instead of the future? No, you don't? That's because you're a Bills fan and haven't thought about winning in 14 years.

This was the aggressive, balls out move we've been waiting for, and some of you gaywads are totally upset like it's a bad thing.

Sack up, losers. Trading up was awesome.

+1 to the Bills for getting their guy.

The team can draft like a team that wants to win now. That doesn't mean they actually have the talent to do so. This team still has a lot of holes and it's gonna hurt to not have that first round pick to help fill them.

[justasportsfan]

The team can draft like a team that wants to win now. That doesn't mean they actually have the talent to do so. This team still has a lot of holes and it's gonna hurt to not have that first round pick to help fill them.

So based on those holes that you talk about, how many games do you think the bills will win this year?

[JoeMama]

The team can draft like a team that wants to win now. That doesn't mean they actually have the talent to do so. This team still has a lot of holes and it's gonna hurt to not have that first round pick to help fill them.

Politely disagreed.

We're on the cusp. Our D is rock solid. Our O has weapons. This can be a good team but everything hinges on EJ Manuel.

Granted, I don't like our odds on that count since I think EJ Manuel is an injury prone sack machine, but I like that we're at least giving him the tools necessary to succeed.

[Buckets]

Between the start of the 1st round and the start of the 2nd round, this was our net gains/losses.

LOSSED

2014 1st Round Pick
2015 1st Round Pick
2015 4th Round Pick
Stevie Johnson


GAINED

Sammy Watkins
2015 4th Round Pick (maybe 3rd Round but it never seems to work that way for us)


That's where I have a problem. Drafting Sammy Watkins basically cost us Stevie Johnson and 2 1st round picks. I hope he's worth it.

How did we loose a 1st in 2014? I thought we took Watkins in the 1st. ?????

[Buckets]

We used two 1st round picks and a 4th. If draft picks are currency, then we paid an awful lot for a WR. Whether that was a mistake or not, we'll have to wait to find out, and it's far from a sure bet. This was an extremely high risk move.

Yes but we didn't "loose" 2 firsts.

[Joe Fo Sho]

How did we loose a 1st in 2014? I thought we took Watkins in the 1st. ?????

Do we still have our 2014 1st round pick?

[Dr. Lecter]

Do we still have our 2014 1st round pick?

Yes.

His name is Sammy Watkins.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yes.

His name is Sammy Watkins.

Yes, exactly. That's why Sammy Watkins is in the GAINED column.

[Bill Cody]

Whaley also foolishly married himself to Manuel last year, so who's going to be getting Watkins the ball so that he can even be the best rookie WR this year, it sure as hell ain't gonna be Manuel. Whaley should have researched Manuel a bit more.

Rookie WRs very rarely hit 1,000 yards, most don't even come close to that. If they really wanted to win now they shouldn't have dished Stevie for a 4th. Yeah yeah, "at least we get something for him." But isn't it about win now? Then why do we care about a 4th, as if our 4th rounders since Whaley's been here have done anything significant at all, when we could have had Stevie for one more season.

Florio also lays it down, if it were all about winning now, why not have picked up Graham, the most prolific and a very well polished ready-to-go TE?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/11/bills-should-have-simply-made-a-run-at-jimmy-graham/

This whole Watkins win-now thing is purely for koolaid drinkers. He'll be lucky to hit 800 yards and 8 TDs, which is less than Stevie averaged over his last 4 seasons here, especially with Manuel throwing. Manuel's the problem, not the receivers.

It'll take getting whacked by that proverbial two-by-four for some to catch onto that. That should occur sometime in October.

You seem awfully sure Manuel won't improve. Anyone that knew anything about Manuel knew he was a project. 2 year college starter. He is STILL raw. Losing those 6 games last year hurt him. What you're looking for is a progression with Manuel. I expect the patience level with him will be low now that we've shot our wad on Watkins. But what I'm hoping for is to win a few ugly games at the start of the year, get to .500 at the halfway point. You need Watkins to settle in to the pro game, Woods to take a step, and at least one rookie on the OL. It's going to be bumpy. But what's foolish is this never ending banging of the drum that Manuel is hopeless. He's not. Not yet.

[WagonCircler]

Yes.

His name is Sammy Watkins.

You can't believe this, can you? The same can be said of any draft pick that we "use" or "spend."

No matter how you spin it, Sammy Watkins COST the Bills two #1 pics and a #4 pick. That was the price to draft him. It would only have COST one #1 had they waited until their original draft slot and selected a player.

The COST to move up was an EXTRA #1 and an additional #4.

Therefore, hence, hitherto and thus, the NET COST to acquire Sammy Watkins:

Two 1st round picks, One 4th round pick = Sammy Watkins

[Dr. Lecter]

You can't believe this, can you? The same can be said of any draft pick that we "use" or "spend."

No matter how you spin it, Sammy Watkins COST the Bills two #1 pics and a #4 pick. That was the price to draft him. It would only have COST one #1 had they waited until their original draft slot and selected a player.

The COST to move up was an EXTRA #1 and an additional #4.

Therefore, hence, hitherto and thus, the NET COST to acquire Sammy Watkins:

Two 1st round picks, One 4th round pick = Sammy Watkins

You are not a math expert are you?

The point it is the additional cost of him is a first and 4th. All picks cost something - that is what being drafted is all about.

The fact is, the question asked is if the Bills still have their 2014 1st round pick. They do. They did not lose that pick by drafting Watkins.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You are not a math expert are you?

The point it is the additional cost of him is a first and 4th. All picks cost something - that is what being drafted is all about.

The fact is, the question asked is if the Bills still have their 2014 1st round pick. They do. They did not lose that pick by drafting Watkins.

Again, my only point to point out the net transaction of what was gained/lost. I ask this question to you and anybody that wants to answer..

What receivers in the NFL do you think we WOULDN'T be able to trade 2 1st round picks and Stevie Johnson for?

[Dr. Lecter]

But they did not exactly trade two firsts for him.

He was one of the firsts.

[Joe Fo Sho]

But they did not exactly trade two firsts for him.

He was one of the firsts.

The transaction I asked about is equivalent to what happened to acquire Sammy.

[WagonCircler]

You are not a math expert are you?

The point it is the additional cost of him is a first and 4th. All picks cost something - that is what being drafted is all about.

The fact is, the question asked is if the Bills still have their 2014 1st round pick. They do. They did not lose that pick by drafting Watkins.

This is not math, it's logic.

A player normally costs a draft pick. Sammy Watkins literally cost over 200% of the going rate.

It's that simple.

[TacklingDummy]

But they did not exactly trade two firsts for him.

He was one of the firsts.

Actually they did in fact trade two firsts and a 4th for the 4th pick in the draft.

1st in 2014
1st in 2015
4th in 2015

for

1st in 2014

Thats 2 firsts and a 4th for a 1st.

[Dr. Lecter]

Actually they did in fact trade two firsts and a 4th for the 4th pick in the draft.

1st in 2014
1st in 2015
4th in 2015

for

1st in 2014

Thats 2 firsts and a 4th for a 1st.

But they still used a first in 2014.

The gross cost was 2 1sts and a 4th.

The net was a 1st and a fourth because they got a 1st back.

[Woodman]

What receivers in the NFL do you think we WOULDN'T be able to trade 2 1st round picks and Stevie Johnson for?

If that's how it happened it would be an interesting question.

However you left out that we get their number one and Bryce Brown.

I only added Brown to the equation because you added Stevie not to mention the 3rd we could still get from Stevie.

THE BILLS DID THE RIGHT THING!!

Now I bet you can think of a few WR's that we couldn't get.

[Forward_Lateral]

Where's the stupid table that shows pick value

[Bill Cody]

But they still used a first in 2014.



So if they used a first in 2014 the cost of that pick is nothing? Does that mean if you never make trade all draft picks are free? This is one of those semantic games that get old after it goes back and forth about 20 times.

[Bill Cody]

Where's the stupid table that shows pick value

I don't think there is one that's valid anymore

[Joe Fo Sho]

If that's how it happened it would be an interesting question.

However you left out that we get their number one and Bryce Brown.

I only added Brown to the equation because you added Stevie not to mention the 3rd we could still get from Stevie.

THE BILLS DID THE RIGHT THING!!

Now I bet you can think of a few WR's that we couldn't get.

I only included Stevie in the trade because it's my opinion that we wouldn't have traded him away if we didn't draft Watkins.

Hypothetically, if we traded our 2014 1st round pick, 2015 1st round pick and Stevie to the Broncos for Demaryious Thomas...we would be in the exact same position we are now only with Thomas instead of Watkins. Would that trade be possible? I don't know. Would that be a better trade? I don't know. These are the hypotheticals that us fans get to argue about until Watkins proves us wrong one way or the other.

[Dr. Who]

I like Doug Whaley. I'm glad we swung for the fences. I don't think this team has a lot of holes after this draft. OBD are obviously higher on EJ than many posters. I have been and am guardedly optimistic about him. If he doesn't work out, I am confident this front office will find an adequate replacement to drop into a young and emerging team with some elite talent.

[WagonCircler]

I am confident this front office will find an adequate replacement to drop into a young and emerging team with some elite talent.

We've been waiting for close to two decades, and this front office reached for a bad QB once already, now they've tripled-down on that mistakes.

Not exactly confidence inspiring.

[Dr. Who]

We've been waiting for close to two decades, and this front office reached for a bad QB once already, now they've tripled-down on that mistakes.

Not exactly confidence inspiring.

I don't consider Whaley part of two decades of losing.

[swiper]

We've been waiting for close to two decades, and this front office reached for a bad QB once already, now they've tripled-down on that mistakes.

Not exactly confidence inspiring.

But don't you understand? Understand that Doug Whaley is the GM we've all been waiting for? He can't fail because he came from the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are always good, so Whaley must be great. We are golden now.

It's enough to see he gave away the house on an unproven rookie WR. He took an OT that was hurt, sucked in try-outs and fell out of the 1st round. And a guard that fell down a few rounds. A LB who EVERYBODY graded as "meh". And the rest a bunch of who-hahs with the combined ceiling of John McCargo.

Yeah Whaley is awesome. Just like when Tom Donahoe swung for the fences with that trade to snare JP Losman.... giving up a round 1 pick the following year. That year GB took Aaron Rodgers at #24 or something like that.

/sarcasm off.

[JoeMama]

^^^This would be the very definition of irony, supplanting my previous favorite "All extremists should be killed!"

You and Op are just mad that I broke ranks and agreed with the optimists for once.

[swiper]

He's also not part of any winning either...and until that point he deservedly falls under the Buffalo Bills blanket of skepticism.

But you'd change your mind if you found out he "took it up the ass."

The only person around for ALL the losing is dead now. And then Brandon has been around, too, for most of it.

[JoeMama]

But don't you understand? Understand that Doug Whaley is the GM we've all been waiting for? He can't fail because he came from the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are always good, so Whaley must be great. We are golden now.

It's enough to see he gave away the house on an unproven rookie WR. He took an OT that was hurt, sucked in try-outs nad fell out of the 1st round. And a guard that fell down a few rounds. A LB who EVERYBODY graded as "meh". And the rest a bunch of who-hahs with the combined ceiling of John McCargo.

Yeah Whaley is awesome. Just like when Tom Donahoe swung for the fences with that trade to snare JP Losman.... giving up a round 1 pick the following year. That year GB took Aaron Rodgers at #24 or something like that.

/sarcasm off.

Aaron Rodgers would have been a bust on another team.

Free-falling in the draft is the best thing that ever happened to him.

[Bill Cody]

But don't you understand? Understand that Doug Whaley is the GM we've all been waiting for? He can't fail because he came from the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are always good, so Whaley must be great. We are golden now.

It's enough to see he gave away the house on an unproven rookie WR. He took an OT that was hurt, sucked in try-outs and fell out of the 1st round. And a guard that fell down a few rounds. A LB who EVERYBODY graded as "meh". And the rest a bunch of who-hahs with the combined ceiling of John McCargo.

Yeah Whaley is awesome. Just like when Tom Donahoe swung for the fences with that trade to snare JP Losman.... giving up a round 1 pick the following year. That year GB took Aaron Rodgers at #24 or something like that.

/sarcasm off.

ok so Watkins is already Losman II? That didn't take long.

[swiper]

Aaron Rodgers would have been a bust on another team.

Free-falling in the draft is the best thing that ever happened to him.

Breaking ranks and falling in with the band-wagoners was your first mistake in this thread. The above is your second. You couldn't be more incorrect.

- - - Updated - - -


ok so Watkins is already Losman II? That didn't take long.

He's nothing until he proves he's something. Can you follow that line of reasoning junior?

[YardRat]

Somebody says "took it up the ass" and your ears perk up? Sorry, that's funny as hell :D

[Bill Cody]

He's nothing until he proves he's something. Can you follow that line of reasoning junior?

no not really

[JoeMama]

Breaking ranks and falling in with the band-wagoners was your first mistake in this thread. The above is your second. You couldn't be more incorrect.

I've been tabbed as the unnecessarily negative type. So this is out of character for me.

BTW Aaron Rodgers would have been a bust if Buffalo drafted him. He would have been thrown to the wolves instead of sitting on a bench behind a HOF'er for 3 years.

[WagonCircler]

You and Op are just mad that I broke ranks and agreed with the optimists for once.

No, just disappointed. I didn't think you were an infant given to tantrums.

Disagree? Fine. Show me facts.

Having a sissy-fit with all caps calling anyone who disagrees with you a ***** baby?

You've become coastal.

[JoeMama]

No, just disappointed. I didn't think you were an infant given to tantrums.

Disagree? Fine. Show me facts.

Having a sissy-fit with all caps calling anyone who disagrees with you a ***** baby?

You've become coastal.

You noticed!

I was on a long BFZ hiatus and wanted to come back in style.

[BertSquirtgum]

I do not care. I'm just happy we mortgaged the future on something.

"Next year" has become this meaningless auto-response for why we don't do anything now. The fact that we gave up something tangible next year for a player today is great because it defies conventional Bills wisdom.

If Watkins winds up being a bust it will still be a Pyrrhic victory. At least we were willing to gamble.

Gross

[YardRat]

You had to reach (around) for that one. Glad to see you're getting an edge to your personality though...For awhile I thought Buffalo's resident PR Director was a robot.

I wonder if this works just like in the movies, it's worth an experiment...

"Took it up the ass"...

[Woodman]

I only included Stevie in the trade because it's my opinion that we wouldn't have traded him away if we didn't draft Watkins.

That's something we'll never know, I'm of the opinion that he was going sooner rather than later, part of that depending on Williams.

I'm pleased our younger WR's now have a much better chance to make a contribution.

Watkins was an excellent and a very aggressive move and IMO it was about time we took a shot.

[kishoph]

I usually try to give WGR's talking heads the benefit of the doubt, but hearing the Bulldog (lapdog) talk about what the Bills gave up to draft Sammy Watkins and then say he wouldn't of paid that much to get Jerry Rice or Randy Moss in their primes, made me realize how clueless some of these guys are. He should stick to talking about pee wee hockey or food drafts.

[sudzy]

Jerry Rice or Randy Moss in their primes

Like Rice and Moss are peers. Not only do they not belong in the same sentence, they don't belong in the same chapter.

[jills]

I don't consider Whaley part of two decades of losing.

I consider him part of the problem since 2010.

[Dr. Who]

The next few years should clarify whether Whaley is a good GM or not.

[Kenny]

Do I think the price to move up to pick up a potential elite talent like Watkins was too high? Nope.
Do I think the actual move up to get a WR was the right move? that's up to debate.

But like others have said, it's too early to tell right now.

[doug45]

Between the start of the 1st round and the start of the 2nd round, this was our net gains/losses.

LOSSED

2014 1st Round Pick
2015 1st Round Pick
2015 4th Round Pick
Stevie Johnson


GAINED

Sammy Watkins
2015 4th Round Pick (maybe 3rd Round but it never seems to work that way for us)


That's where I have a problem. Drafting Sammy Watkins basically cost us Stevie Johnson and 2 1st round picks. I hope he's worth it.
If we had a great QB this might have been worth it But we do not and now we have lost our picks to fix this next year. EJ might be ok as a backup but not a starter. He is hurt more games than he plays too.

[better days]

I read the Browns have only one player left from the Julio Jones trade they made with the Falcons.

If Watkins becomes a pro bowl player, he will have been well worth what the Bills gave up for him.

If he is mediocre, the Bills got screwed without any lube.

[feldspar]

What? So you're saying that there's no value to where you draft a player? When you use a draft pick, you're exchanging that player for that draft pick. Jadaveon Clowney cost the Texans their 1st round draft pick, that was the transaction. We absolutely used 2 1st round picks on Sammy Watkins.

Are you saying that there's no difference with selecting a player in the 1st round vs any other round? That Cyrus Kouandjio and Seantrel Henderson cost the Bills the same amount? With that amount being free?

My point was simply to look at our NET loss/gain before the 2nd round started, and that info is not opinion. What if we had used those picks/player in a trade? I believe we could've got a lot. How good of a receiver do you think we could have got if we offered 2 1st round picks and Stevie Johnson as trade bait? Would that player be less risky that Sammy Watkins? Would Sammy Watkins be better? I don't know.

There is a difference between USING a pick and LOSING a pick; otherwise, every team LOSES every single draft pick every year...and it wouldn't make any sense to say something like that. Either way, you spend your picks. I think it's pretty much consensus that Sammy Watkins was worth the 4th overall pick, so that ain't the question...it's giving up next year's first round pick. The Bills actually DID try to trade up with the Texans to #1 to get him as well, according to Doug Whaley.

Personally, I hate that the Bills spent next year's 1st round draft pick on a WR, and it doesn't really matter how good he is. Could have been worse if we traded up to #1, #2, or #3 like we tried to do. I thought the Falcons were foolish to go after Julio Jones the way they did as well (in another trade with Cleveland), but that was a lot more understandable than what the Bills did since the Falcons were coming off a 13-3 season where their young QB just made the Pro Bowl. They were set at QB for the foreseeable future. That's the thing with me...in the very real event that EJ Manuel doesn't pan out, the Bills are without a first-round pick to potentially draft a QB next year if it came to that.

Who is the best wide receiver in the league, Calvin Johnson? The Lions have made the playoffs ONCE in his 7-year career, and he's had better QB play than the Bills have seen. We're talking about WR, a position utterly dependent on QB play too. This season (and apparently next season too) totally hinges on EJ Manuel and how he performs. If does poorly this year and we're stuck with him starting again in 2015 because of this trade up, I'll be pissed. Too many "ifs" to take a shot like this IMO. We'll see what happens, but I have my misgivings.

It also does not help that Sammy Watkins' agent is Eugene Parker. Sorry to break the news to anybody that did not know that.

[Fletch]

I like Whaley's spirit. He's a young dynamic gm who understands the cap, as well as the modern player.

It's also pretty clear who's calling the personnel shots at 1BD.....and it's not the octogenarians anymore.

I applaud the move.

You can applaud it all you want, if it fails then I think that the applause needs to cease and he should be held responsible.

If it succeeds then we'll discuss it at that time. But I don't think that it's been Overdorf and Littman picking the team's draftees since 2010 when Whaley was specifically brought on as a player/personnel specialist as the top dog in that role.

It also hasn't been them picking the coaching staff, I don't think and cannot imagine.

[Fletch]

I do not care. I'm just happy we mortgaged the future on something.

"Next year" has become this meaningless auto-response for why we don't do anything now. The fact that we gave up something tangible next year for a player today is great because it defies conventional Bills wisdom.

If Watkins winds up being a bust it will still be a Pyrrhic victory. At least we were willing to gamble.

Are you really Jim Overdorf or something?

If this fails then we'll be well into record territory for NFL futility. Garsh, I can't wait for that. It's about all we need besides a good swift kick in the balls.

[Historian]

But I don't think that it's been Overdorf and Littman picking the team's draftees since 2010 when Whaley was specifically brought on as a player/personnel specialist as the top dog in that role.

It also hasn't been them picking the coaching staff, I don't think and cannot imagine.

Untrue.

Wilson never made a move on any personnel (staff or player) without running it past Littman.

Polian confirmed that.

[JoeMama]

Are you really Jim Overdorf or something?

If this fails then we'll be well into record territory for NFL futility. Garsh, I can't wait for that. It's about all we need besides a good swift kick in the balls.

I've spent half my life making fun of Jim Overdorf.

If I'm him, I've done a fantastic job keeping it a secret... until now.

[BertSquirtgum]

They gave up too much. Over and out.