The Pats still stink at drafting

[X-Era]

Initially I shook my head on the Easley pickup in the 1st due to blown ACL's in each knee at college. But I heard that Seattle was ready to draft him right behind NE. So they get a pass on that move. Yet still, both Wilfork and Kelly are also coming off injuries. So their best move was to add another guy into coming-off-an-injury list?

But the Garappolo move is a great place to point out why they stink. They don't even need a QB right away, and they already drafted Mallett a few years back. So basically drafting Garappolo makes the Mallett pick a waste or vice versa. ZERO reason to waste picks like this. And no, I don't really care that Mallett's deal is about up. He's been on the roster and knows the system. He's had zero starts. Obviously this wasn't a move to push Brady for a starting job. It was at best insurance if he gets injured. But he hasn't and so the Pats spent a 3rd rounder on a guy to hold the clipboard. And now spent another pick, a second rounder to fight for a job holding the clipboard? Waste. The Pats are so good that they can spend 2nd and 3rd rounders on guys that have no shot to play?

The only saving grace is if the Pats do in fact trade Mallett and recoup something for the wasted pick.

Stork may have been their best pick. James White was ranked by McShay as the 263 best player and 21st ranked RB. Yet they took him at pick 130. They easily could have waited another 2 rounds and got White.

The step in the right direction for them was to not stockpile picks that they end up wasting. If they want to waste picks at least do less of it. So they headed in the right direction by not trading down a zillion times.

Yes, this team is an annual playoff team. But, they have needs and haven't made the SB in a long time. They needed help on the defense still. They lost Talib, Spikes, and Blount. Revis is a huge add but he's got some miles on his legs too. No clue why they didn't just re-sign Blount who is right now way better than White. But whatever. And they did not draft a LB which would have been a better move than Garappolo.

The easy wrap up is that their 1st pick was a guy with serious injury concerns and who is added to an interior D line that already has injury concerns and their 2nd rounder was a guy who won't see the field.

[TacklingDummy]

They also haven't drafted a WR in the 1st round since Terry Glenn in 1996. How do they keep winning? On that's right, they have a QB.

[X-Era]

They also haven't drafted a WR in the 1st round since Terry Glenn in 1996. How do they keep winning? On that's right, they have a QB.They have a HOF QB and a HOF HC.

So, yeah, I guess from that standpoint they can draft a hundred Flowers every year and still be fine. :D:

[Goobylal]

This draft to me looked like the Pats admitting that their SB days are done and it's time to look to the future. None of their draft picks help them much this year.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

To me, that's the advantage that you have a super star QB - he makes everyone looks better, WR, OL, RB, etc, and coaches, you name it. In the leaked phone conversation between then GMs Nix and Dominik, the latter said the Colts GM is going to look like a genius for 10 years and that's true. But really what he has done other than walking into his job with the #1 pick at hand and Andrew Luck was available?

Belichick was regarded as a failing HC until he hit on Tom Brady, even named himself as OC and had success. To his credit, he has never forgotten that - he has kept on trying to hit lightening twice ever since.

I originally credited him with a keen eye on QBs. After all these years, I now credit his approach instead: keeping on looking for that miracle. I guess, it's like playing lottery. The odds are extremely low but the reward is extremely high. But if you don't play, you are guaranteed not to win. Belichick buys $1 ticket every time.

In the meantime, other teams without a super star QB are working round the clock to field other 10 positional players to make their QB look good.

[DynaPaul]

You guys are fooling yourselves... they have a Hall of Fame cheating system in place that makes scrubs look good on the field.

[Meathead]

the cheaters hc has a career .500 non-marcia winning pcentage. hof my ass

[Pinkerton Security]

They also haven't drafted a WR in the 1st round since Terry Glenn in 1996. How do they keep winning? On that's right, they have a QB.

Granted this is likely me being a Pats hater - but what happens when they DONT have a QB? They dont have the team they did when Cassel won 9 games a few years back - i insert Cassel into their starting QB role right now and they would struggle mightily.

[swiper]

IDK why the OP is babbling on about the QB pick. Brady is old and has been getting knocked around. Mallett's deal is about up. The QB pick makes sense whether on or both of those guys go OR stay. It's insurance. The Patriots needed a 3rd QB to groom. The OP rant just sounds like a Bills fan who has had to watch Buffalo mis-manage it's QBs since Jim Kelly retired not understand that the Patriots are doing this the right way.

Now whether Garappalo turns out to be an NFL caliber QB is a different discussion. But the Patriots were not the only team to feel so. We know that for a fact.

[OpIv37]

I keep reading on this board about how the Pats are bad at drafting, make questionable FA moves, lose players in the off-season, only have one good DB, etc. Yet, they beat us twice a year (often by a ridiculous margin), win the division with ease, and usually go deep in the playoffs.

Must be nice to suck like the Pats do.

[EDS]

Initially I shook my head on the Easley pickup in the 1st due to blown ACL's in each knee at college. But I heard that Seattle was ready to draft him right behind NE. So they get a pass on that move. Yet still, both Wilfork and Kelly are also coming off injuries. So their best move was to add another guy into coming-off-an-injury list?

But the Garappolo move is a great place to point out why they stink. They don't even need a QB right away, and they already drafted Mallett a few years back. So basically drafting Garappolo makes the Mallett pick a waste or vice versa. ZERO reason to waste picks like this. And no, I don't really care that Mallett's deal is about up. He's been on the roster and knows the system. He's had zero starts. Obviously this wasn't a move to push Brady for a starting job. It was at best insurance if he gets injured. But he hasn't and so the Pats spent a 3rd rounder on a guy to hold the clipboard. And now spent another pick, a second rounder to fight for a job holding the clipboard? Waste. The Pats are so good that they can spend 2nd and 3rd rounders on guys that have no shot to play?

The only saving grace is if the Pats do in fact trade Mallett and recoup something for the wasted pick.

Stork may have been their best pick. James White was ranked by McShay as the 263 best player and 21st ranked RB. Yet they took him at pick 130. They easily could have waited another 2 rounds and got White.

The step in the right direction for them was to not stockpile picks that they end up wasting. If they want to waste picks at least do less of it. So they headed in the right direction by not trading down a zillion times.

Yes, this team is an annual playoff team. But, they have needs and haven't made the SB in a long time. They needed help on the defense still. They lost Talib, Spikes, and Blount. Revis is a huge add but he's got some miles on his legs too. No clue why they didn't just re-sign Blount who is right now way better than White. But whatever. And they did not draft a LB which would have been a better move than Garappolo.

The easy wrap up is that their 1st pick was a guy with serious injury concerns and who is added to an interior D line that already has injury concerns and their 2nd rounder was a guy who won't see the field.

The Packers fans thought they wasted a pick on Aaron Rodgers while they had Brett Farve at QB.

[better days]

The Packers fans thought they wasted a pick on Aaron Rodgers while they had Brett Farve at QB.

No, they didn't.

[better days]

The Packers fans thought they wasted a pick on Aaron Rodgers while they had Brett Farve at QB.

And Garappalo will probably be more Mallett like than Rodgers like.

[Goobylal]

Now whether Garappalo turns out to be an NFL caliber QB is a different discussion. But the Patriots were not the only team to feel so. We know that for a fact.
Yeah, and he was still a late 2nd round pick despite almost every team, especially th QB needy teams, passing on him twice. And the Pats can't draft QBs for spit. Brady was pure dumb luck.

[DraftBoy]

I thought Easley was a fantastic pick by them. Let's not forget he's a potential Top 10 guy if his knees are healthy.

Garoppolo makes sense because Mallet has shown little and his skill set fits what they like to do offensively.

I thought Stork and Fleming were steals where they got them and White brings that dual thread RB who can block that they always value over one dimensional backs.

Also I thought Gallon in Round 7 was a fantastic pick, he's small but they have killed the league with small WR's who are quick twitch athletes and that's Gallon.

All in all a really solid draft.

[EDS]

Yeah, and he was still a late 2nd round pick despite almost every team, especially th QB needy teams, passing on him twice. And the Pats can't draft QBs for spit. Brady was pure dumb luck.

They can't draft QB's for spit? They have essentially used one 1st round pick and one 6th round pick to satisfy all their QB needs for the past 20 years. I guess if you count Cassell they also used a 7th round pick.

[justasportsfan]

They can't draft QB's for spit? They have essentially used one 1st round pick and one 6th round pick to satisfy all their QB needs for the past 20 years. I guess if you count Cassell they also used a 7th round pick.

hitting on a qb in the 6th rd. is luck.

[Goobylal]

They can't draft QB's for spit? They have essentially used one 1st round pick and one 6th round pick to satisfy all their QB needs for the past 20 years. I guess if you count Cassell they also used a 7th round pick.
Yeah and again they got lucky with Brady who has not only been good, but mostly healthy. Cassel was a scrub who only looked good because he was handed the keys to the greatest offense in history, at the time.

[TacklingDummy]

the cheaters hc has a career .500 non-marcia winning pcentage. hof my ass

Tom Brady made him a HOF coach.

Just like Kelly made Levy a HOF coach.

[better days]

I thought Easley was a fantastic pick by them. Let's not forget he's a potential Top 10 guy if his knees are healthy.

Garoppolo makes sense because Mallet has shown little and his skill set fits what they like to do offensively.

I thought Stork and Fleming were steals where they got them and White brings that dual thread RB who can block that they always value over one dimensional backs.

Also I thought Gallon in Round 7 was a fantastic pick, he's small but they have killed the league with small WR's who are quick twitch athletes and that's Gallon.

All in all a really solid draft.

But Easley's knees are not healthy. Injuries to BOTH knees, with the latest injury just last year.

He was projected to go day two or day three. OVERDRAFTED.

In comparison Kouandjio, the Bills 2nd rnd pick injured one knee back in his freshman year, 2011.

[DesertFox24]

I do not even need to read the post to know how this thread is going.

Some people will look and go into the production of the pats players and try and prove with stats that yes the pats are not a good drafting.

Then there will be those pessimist that will come out and say hey the won they must be doing something right, and BB is a genius.

Here is the one thing I will stat on this topic.

How good of a coach was Marv levy before he had a HOF QB?

What did BB do with a Marty Schott team that went to the AFC champ games and lost only because of the The Drive and The Fumble?

The answer is they were both run out of town and considered epic failures. Amazing what a HOF QB will do for you.

I will take this one step further name one HOF coach without a HOF QB, go ahead and try. QBs have always made the team and always will.

[justasportsfan]

I do not even need to read the post to know how this thread is going.

Some people will look and go into the production of the pats players and try and prove with stats that yes the pats are not a good drafting.

Then there will be those pessimist that will come out and say hey the won they must be doing something right, and BB is a genius.

Here is the one thing I will stat on this topic.

How good of a coach was Marv levy before he had a HOF QB?

What did BB do with a Marty Schott team that went to the AFC champ games and lost only because of the The Drive and The Fumble?

The answer is they were both run out of town and considered epic failures. Amazing what a HOF QB will do for you.

I will take this one step further name one HOF coach without a HOF QB, go ahead and try. QBs have always made the team and always will.

I will take it further..... If they didn't cheat they would be just another Mrrv Levy team who never won a sb.

[HAMMER]

Haters just hatin', that's all it is. Every year it's the same posts about how the demise of the Pats is upon the football universe, and every year those people make themselves look dumb.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

But the Garappolo move is a great place to point out why they stink. They don't even need a QB right away, and they already drafted Mallett a few years back. So basically drafting Garappolo makes the Mallett pick a waste or vice versa. ZERO reason to waste picks like this. And no, I don't really care that Mallett's deal is about up. He's been on the roster and knows the system. He's had zero starts. Obviously this wasn't a move to push Brady for a starting job. ... And now spent another pick, a second rounder to fight for a job holding the clipboard? Waste. The Pats are so good that they can spend 2nd and 3rd rounders on guys that have no shot to play?

Why don't you care that his contract is almost up? Someone is going to have to pay him that second deal and the Patriots have very limited live game snaps to evaluate him with. Now, obviously part of that is their fault for not resting starters, but they've been in a situation to win either a bye or HFA the last three years.

It's also conceivable that the dude just sucks and they are looking for another alternative.


It was at best insurance if he gets injured. But he hasn't and so the Pats spent a 3rd rounder on a guy to hold the clipboard.

Is that not the point of insurance? Something you have in case of the worst but hope never to use?


The only saving grace is if the Pats do in fact trade Mallett and recoup something for the wasted pick.

The rumor was they were going to do exactly that with Houston. Perhaps trade talks fell through.

[EDS]

I do not even need to read the post to know how this thread is going.

Some people will look and go into the production of the pats players and try and prove with stats that yes the pats are not a good drafting.

Then there will be those pessimist that will come out and say hey the won they must be doing something right, and BB is a genius.

Here is the one thing I will stat on this topic.

How good of a coach was Marv levy before he had a HOF QB?

What did BB do with a Marty Schott team that went to the AFC champ games and lost only because of the The Drive and The Fumble?

The answer is they were both run out of town and considered epic failures. Amazing what a HOF QB will do for you.

I will take this one step further name one HOF coach without a HOF QB, go ahead and try. QBs have always made the team and always will.

Bill Parcells

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I will take this one step further name one HOF coach without a HOF QB, go ahead and try.

Bill Parcells. Bill Cowher might join him depending on how Roethlisberger finishes out his career.


Yeah and again they got lucky with Brady who has not only been good, but mostly healthy. Cassel was a scrub who only looked good because he was handed the keys to the greatest offense in history, at the time.

It was only the greatest offense with Brady at the helm. If you take him out of the equation, there have been offenses with more skill position talent.

[GingerP]

What did BB do with a Marty Schott team that went to the AFC champ games and lost only because of the The Drive and The Fumble?

Belichick didn't take over a Marty Schottenheimer team that went to the AFC Championship game and lost only because of The Drive and The Fumble. The Drive took place in 1987 and the Fumble took place in 1988.

Belichick took over in 1991. The Browns were coming off a 3-13 season under Bud Carson/Frank Shorter (after Carson was fired). They were terrible.

[better days]

Haters just hatin', that's all it is. Every year it's the same posts about how the demise of the Pats is upon the football universe, and every year those people make themselves look dumb.

The Pats* never won anything without cheating.

And Brady is getting old. The end is near for them.

[chernobylwraiths]

I do not even need to read the post to know how this thread is going.

Some people will look and go into the production of the pats players and try and prove with stats that yes the pats are not a good drafting.

Then there will be those pessimist that will come out and say hey the won they must be doing something right, and BB is a genius.

Here is the one thing I will stat on this topic.

How good of a coach was Marv levy before he had a HOF QB?

What did BB do with a Marty Schott team that went to the AFC champ games and lost only because of the The Drive and The Fumble?

The answer is they were both run out of town and considered epic failures. Amazing what a HOF QB will do for you.

I will take this one step further name one HOF coach without a HOF QB, go ahead and try. QBs have always made the team and always will.

Mike Didka. :D

[chernobylwraiths]

Bill Parcells

Madden?

[GingerP]

Joe Gibbs as well. He won 3 SB with 3 different QB, and none of them are HOF-worthy.

[Goobylal]

Bill Parcells. Bill Cowher might join him depending on how Roethlisberger finishes out his career.
It was only the greatest offense with Brady at the helm. If you take him out of the equation, there have been offenses with more skill position talent.
With Moss and Welker, it was pretty stacked at WR. Hell Moss made Culpepper look great.

[DesertFox24]

Belichick didn't take over a Marty Schottenheimer team that went to the AFC Championship game and lost only because of The Drive and The Fumble. The Drive took place in 1987 and the Fumble took place in 1988.

Belichick took over in 1991. The Browns were coming off a 3-13 season under Bud Carson/Frank Shorter (after Carson was fired). They were terrible.


Belichick still had Kosar and ran him out of town, which was the main reason they sucked.

However, you are correct he was not the next coach.

[DesertFox24]

Ok so you guys have provided two coaches that are HOF coaches to not have a super bowl QB (potentially three).

I am going to call it and say I think I have proven my point.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

With Moss and Welker, it was pretty stacked at WR. Hell Moss made Culpepper look great.

The 99 Vikings had Moss and Carter. The 2000 Rams had Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and Marshall Failk. The 2004 Colts had Harrison and Wayne with Dallas Clark working underneath and James out of the backfield.

Moss and Welker are is unquestionably elite, but there have been offenses with better talent top to bottom than the 2007 Pats. Brady pulled that whole unit together.

[chernobylwraiths]

Ok so you guys have provided two coaches that are HOF coaches to not have a super bowl QB (potentially three).

I am going to call it and say I think I have proven my point.

Really? 22 coaches in the NFL hall of fame for coaching. 7 of those coached mostly before the 50s. 15 left, of those I'm not sure all of them had Hall of Fame QBs or had them for most of their years. Sid Gillman had Norm Van Brocklin early in his career, but not sure who later. Not sure who George Allen's QBs were either or if they are in the Hall, like Jurgenson. I don't think you have proven anything. Some of the QBs in the Hall probably shouldn't even been there. Like Joe Namath.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Ok so you guys have provided two coaches that are HOF coaches to not have a super bowl QB (potentially three).

I am going to call it and say I think I have proven my point.

You said it was a Hall of Fame QB you were looking for. If you want to say no coach has made it to the Hall without a QB capable of winning them a Super Bowl, sure. I'll put Simms and Plunkett in that category.

[CleveSteve]

McShay is wrong at least as often as he is right. White was my 4th ranked RB after watching the top 20 or so prospects. Gallon was highway robbbery. Michigan's all time leading receiver for a single season despite a crappy QB throwing to him. Stork was my top center ahead of Linsley.

I thought Easley was better than Floyd at Florida, but of course it all depends on the medical.

I agree with you on Garoppolo. He is a scrub. JMO.

[EDS]

Ok so you guys have provided two coaches that are HOF coaches to not have a super bowl QB (potentially three).

I am going to call it and say I think I have proven my point.

There are 22 coaches in the HOF. Parcells, Gibbs, Madden and George Allen, approx. 1/4 of all the coaches in the HOF, did not have a HOF QB. There may be others as well.

[swiper]

The Packers fans thought they wasted a pick on Aaron Rodgers while they had Brett Farve at QB.


Absolutely not.

[Goobylal]

The 99 Vikings had Moss and Carter. The 2000 Rams had Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, and Marshall Failk. The 2004 Colts had Harrison and Wayne with Dallas Clark working underneath and James out of the backfield.

Moss and Welker are is unquestionably elite, but there have been offenses with better talent top to bottom than the 2007 Pats. Brady pulled that whole unit together.
The passing game really opened up about 10 years ago, i.e. after the no-chuck rule was re-emphasized thanks to the Pats' DB's playing the Colts' WR's. And if you're saying that Brady did what Manning couldn't do in 2004, look at last year.

McShay is wrong at least as often as he is right. White was my 4th ranked RB after watching the top 20 or so prospects. Gallon was highway robbbery. Michigan's all time leading receiver for a single season despite a crappy QB throwing to him. Stork was my top center ahead of Linsley.

I thought Easley was better than Floyd at Florida, but of course it all depends on the medical.

I agree with you on Garoppolo. He is a scrub. JMO.
Easley was a top-10 talent before getting injured. After though, it's anyone's guess. And given that people think that EJ is injury prone after suffering knee sprains last year, I can't imagine what they think of Easley.

[DraftBoy]

But Easley's knees are not healthy. Injuries to BOTH knees, with the latest injury just last year.

He was projected to go day two or day three. OVERDRAFTED.

In comparison Kouandjio, the Bills 2nd rnd pick injured one knee back in his freshman year, 2011.

You're missing the fact that some medical reports showed Cujo's knees as arthritic, when Easley doesn't have that issue. Rather large omission.

He was also never projected to go on Day 3. He potentially could fall into Round 2 due to the knee injury.

[swiper]

Yeah and again they got lucky with Brady who has not only been good, but mostly healthy. Cassel was a scrub who only looked good because he was handed the keys to the greatest offense in history, at the time.

Cassell was not a scrub. You sound like an idiot saying so. Read about him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Cassel

He's not Tom Brady, but he's not a scrub. That's one of the stupidest things I've seen posted.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The passing game really opened up about 10 years ago, i.e. after the no-chuck rule was re-emphasized thanks to the Pats' DB's playing the Colts' WR's. And if you're saying that Brady did what Manning couldn't do in 2004, look at last year.

I'm not sure what either of those statements has to do with mine. What I'm saying is that the 2008 Pats did not have the greatest offense in history without Brady. Cassel wasn't handed the keys, he was replacing the biggest part.

[swiper]

You're missing the fact that some medical reports showed Cujo's knees as arthritic, when Easley doesn't have that issue. Rather large omission.

He was also never projected to go on Day 3. He potentially could fall into Round 2 due to the knee injury.

Not only are Kouanjido's knees arthritic. He plays like they are. Huge red flag. And why he struggled in pre-draft workouts and eventually fell to round #2.

If he pans out, Whaley looks like a genius. If not we'll get a "Whaley = Donahoe" thread here. I don't claim to know. All I know is he had a couple of pre-draft looks that weren't too good.

[DraftBoy]

Not only are Kouanjido's knees arthritic. He plays like they are. Huge red flag. And why he struggled in pre-draft workouts and eventually fell to round #2.

If he pans out, Whaley looks like a genius. If not we'll get a "Whaley = Donahoe" thread here. I don't claim to know. All I know is he had a couple of pre-draft looks that weren't too good.

We don't know if they are or they aren't. Some teams failed him for it but Dr. James Andrews said that they are not. It's all he said, she said at this point.

[GingerP]

Belichick still had Kosar and ran him out of town, which was the main reason they sucked.

However, you are correct he was not the next coach.

Kosar wasn't that good, especially at that point. Given Testaverde's play after that he was really proven right. The only reason that was controversial was because Kosar was a local hero in Cleveland. He wouldn't buy into the program and Belichick got rid of him.

He definitely had some growing pains in Cleveland (mostly with he handling of the media), but he took over a terrible team and by 1994 he had that team at 11-5. They went on to win a playoff game that year. He did that with Testaverde at QB and a defense that surrendered the fewest points in the league. The wheels fell off the next season, but much of that was due to the team moving. It was about the worst situation any coach has had to deal with in NFL history.

I understand why people hate Belichick, but anyone who is trying to say he isn't a great coach is either delusional or stupid. Yeah, he is a *****. Yeah, he is arrogant. He is also a great coach, Brady or no Brady.

[swiper]

To keep it in perspective, it was a 2nd round pick, not a 1st. I would have been upset if they took the guy in the 1st. But it seems like a reasonable risk for where he was taken in the 2nd. Still a risk though. I'm eager to see Whaley be right on this one.

[Mr. Pink]

Kosar wasn't that good, especially at that point. Given Testaverde's play after that he was really proven right. The only reason that was controversial was because Kosar was a local hero in Cleveland. He wouldn't buy into the program and Belichick got rid of him.

He definitely had some growing pains in Cleveland (mostly with he handling of the media), but he took over a terrible team and by 1994 he had that team at 11-5. They went on to win a playoff game that year. He did that with Testaverde at QB and a defense that surrendered the fewest points in the league. The wheels fell off the next season, but much of that was due to the team moving. It was about the worst situation any coach has had to deal with in NFL history.

I understand why people hate Belichick, but anyone who is trying to say he isn't a great coach is either delusional or stupid. Yeah, he is a *****. Yeah, he is arrogant. He is also a great coach, Brady or no Brady.

Kosar was ran out of Cleveland for two reasons. His skills were diminishing and he and Belichick didn't see eye to eye. Kosar's last pass in Cleveland was a TD pass on a play he called himself which was not the play that was sent into the huddle. Kosar didn't audible to the pass, he just disregarded the call sent in. So, it wasn't just that his skills were on the downside he wasn't a guy that bought into Belichick's system...we all know Belichick is a guy big on system and having players that fit and buy into it.

[Mike13]

They also haven't drafted a WR in the 1st round since Terry Glenn in 1996. How do they keep winning? On that's right, they have a QB.

Their WR corps was awful last year and they paid the price for it.
Belicheat still thinks he can win with a Gimpy TE as his only weapon.

[GingerP]

Their WR corps was awful last year and they paid the price for it.
Belicheat still thinks he can win with a Gimpy TE as his only weapon.

Yeah, he rebuilt his receiver corps and they were 3rd in the NFL in points scored and 7th in the NFL in yards gained. They were only able to make it as far as the AFC Championship game.

[better days]

You're missing the fact that some medical reports showed Cujo's knees as arthritic, when Easley doesn't have that issue. Rather large omission.

He was also never projected to go on Day 3. He potentially could fall into Round 2 due to the knee injury.

Google Easley & you will see some projected him to go on day three.

[better days]

Yeah, he rebuilt his receiver corps and they were 3rd in the NFL in points scored and 7th in the NFL in yards gained. They were only able to make it as far as the AFC Championship game.

The Pats* have had a HUGE advantage playing in the AFC East all these years against mediocre competition.

Not to mention they get MANY questionable calls in their favor by the officials.

[Goobylal]

You're missing the fact that some medical reports showed Cujo's knees as arthritic, when Easley doesn't have that issue. Rather large omission.

He was also never projected to go on Day 3. He potentially could fall into Round 2 due to the knee injury.
Easley is in far more danger of arthritis given his two ACL injuries. And as you said, Dr. Andrews cleared Kujo.

Cassell was not a scrub. You sound like an idiot saying so. Read about him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Cassel

He's not Tom Brady, but he's not a scrub. That's one of the stupidest things I've seen posted.
He's a scrub. But then again, he was just a 7th rounder. He should be sending Bernard Pollard a nice gift every Christmas.

I'm not sure what either of those statements has to do with mine. What I'm saying is that the 2008 Pats did not have the greatest offense in history without Brady. Cassel wasn't handed the keys, he was replacing the biggest part.
Yes obviously Cassel isn't Brady (even Swiper knows that). But the remainder of the offense makes a difference. Hence the reason the Brady's stats decreased appreciably over the past several years.

- - - Updated - - -


Google Easley & you will see some projected him to go on day three.
I that because of his ACL injury or his talent?

[better days]

Easley is in far more danger of arthritis given his two ACL injuries. And as you said, Dr. Andrews cleared Kujo.

He's a scrub. But then again, he was just a 7th rounder. He should be sending Bernard Pollard a nice gift every Christmas.

Yes obviously Cassel isn't Brady (even Swiper knows that). But the remainder of the offense makes a difference. Hence the reason the Brady's stats decreased appreciably over the past several years.

- - - Updated - - -


I that because of his ACL injury or his talent?

Easley was projected to drop in the draft because of injuries to both knees, with the last injury just last year.

[X-Era]

Hillarious.

Whats the same is not being critical of their drafts which is a very fair thing to be critical of... it's being critical of being critical of the Pats at all since they win.

Db at least stuck to the OP and disagreed with me on how they did in this draft. I respect his opinion.

Yet the second the Pats get criticized there's a bunch of discussion about how much they win so everything must be fine.

What's even more funny is how we're actually defending just letting Mallett walk without re-signing him or ever playing him as a 3rd rounder and at the same time having no issue with drafting yet another clipboard holder in the 2nd round who at least for this year will battle for the clipboard holders job...

Is this the same board? The same board that:

Argued we should never have let Byrd leave even when we offered him a contract that he wouldn't take? That we just draft players and let them leave? The same board? That now thinks the Pats are good at drafting when they draft guys in the 3rd and 2nd round that never hit the field and they then ought to let go without even trying to re-sign them? But should rather waste yet another high round pick on another guy to do the same thing?

The same board that is pissed at the Bills for letting the guys they draft leave?

Or drafts guys who never play a down?

Or who suck?

That is now excusing and justifying the Pats doing it?

If Mallett sucks the Pats blew the pick.
If Mallett, as the clipboard holder, leaves without any offer the Pats wasted a 3rd round pick.
And If Mallett leaves and they then spent another 2nd rounder on a guy who only holds a clipboard they wasted 2 high round picks.

The Pats could easily just sign a backup. If they are drafting these guys to be the heir to Bradys job, Mallett should be re-signed.

[Night Train]

When Brady leaves or his game suddenly tanks.... the Pats come back to the pack.

[EDS]

Hillarious.

Whats the same is not being critical of their drafts which is a very fair thing to be critical of... it's being critical of being critical of the Pats at all since they win.

Db at least stuck to the OP and disagreed with me on how they did in this draft. I respect his opinion.

Yet the second the Pats get criticized there's a bunch of discussion about how much they win so everything must be fine.

What's even more funny is how we're actually defending just letting Mallett walk without re-signing him or ever playing him as a 3rd rounder and at the same time having no issue with drafting yet another clipboard holder in the 2nd round who at least for this year will battle for the clipboard holders job...

Is this the same board? The same board that:

Argued we should never have let Byrd leave even when we offered him a contract that he wouldn't take? That we just draft players and let them leave? The same board? That now thinks the Pats are good at drafting when they draft guys in the 3rd and 2nd round that never hit the field and they then ought to let go without even trying to re-sign them? But should rather waste yet another high round pick on another guy to do the same thing?

The same board that is pissed at the Bills for letting the guys they draft leave?

Or drafts guys who never play a down?

Or who suck?

That is now excusing and justifying the Pats doing it?

If Mallett sucks the Pats blew the pick.
If Mallett, as the clipboard holder, leaves without any offer the Pats wasted a 3rd round pick.
And If Mallett leaves and they then spent another 2nd rounder on a guy who only holds a clipboard they wasted 2 high round picks.

The Pats could easily just sign a backup. If they are drafting these guys to be the heir to Bradys job, Mallett should be re-signed.

The morale of the story is that people in glass houses should not throw stones.

What compensation did the Bills get for prior drafted QBs such as Losman and Edwards?
What compensation did the Bills get for letting former second round pick Troup "leave"?
What compensation did the Bills get for letting former third round pick Carrington leave?
What about former second rounders Levitres and Byrd?

Everyone knows that the Patriots will be a far different team when Brady hangs it up, and likely a non-playoff team. Everyone also knows the Pats were very lucky that Brady turned out the way he did. Seattle appears to be very lucky so far with how Wilson has played.

Every Bills fan hopes beyond hope that EJ can muster a Flacco or Eli like hot streak sometime over the next half dozen years and deliver a super bowl title to Buffalo.

[swiper]

Google Easley & you will see some projected him to go on day three.

It's funny how some guys will pan draftniks across the board in one thread then use them to make their point in another. Even if their point is far from correct. Case in point above.

[swiper]

Hilarious only has on 'L' in it. Spell check not working?

[X-Era]

Hilarious only has on 'L' in it. Spell check not working?Nah. Just lazy.

I'm interested in having the debate on the topic. Where is it that you feel I'm wrong?

[X-Era]

The morale of the story is that people in glass houses should not throw stones.

What compensation did the Bills get for prior drafted QBs such as Losman and Edwards?
What compensation did the Bills get for letting former second round pick Troup "leave"?
What compensation did the Bills get for letting former third round pick Carrington leave?
What about former second rounders Levitres and Byrd?

Everyone knows that the Patriots will be a far different team when Brady hangs it up, and likely a non-playoff team. Everyone also knows the Pats were very lucky that Brady turned out the way he did. Seattle appears to be very lucky so far with how Wilson has played.

Every Bills fan hopes beyond hope that EJ can muster a Flacco or Eli like hot streak sometime over the next half dozen years and deliver a super bowl title to Buffalo.
Or if you live in a glass house you're the most experienced with a glass cutter... or something.

Every single player you mentioned play real NFL downs. We're talking about 2 high round players that could easily never see the field. Is that the best use of high round picks?

[swiper]

Nah. Just lazy.

I'm interested in having the debate on the topic. Where is it that you feel I'm wrong?

Well, for one, you seem focused on railing them because the Mallett pick was a "failure." As a Bills fan, you can't do that. The Bills are one of the worst teams at picking QBs. Moreover, you know that ALL teams struggle at picking QBs. All personnel men openly admit it's a crap shoot. You can follow rules like Bill Parcells or whomever, but it's still a crapshoot. The Patriots hit on Brady and Bledsoe. It was enough to make them good for a LONG stretch.

As for the rest of their drafting? Some good, some bad. You picked up on the common perception that they stink at drafting in your opening post and ran with it. Their may be some truth to that, but they aren't really that bad.

[DraftBoy]

Google Easley & you will see some projected him to go on day three.

:rofl: Google Search Returns

[X-Era]

Well, for one, you seem focused on railing them because the Mallett pick was a "failure." As a Bills fan, you can't do that. The Bills are one of the worst teams at picking QBs. Moreover, you know that ALL teams struggle at picking QBs. All personnel men openly admit it's a crap shoot. You can follow rules like Bill Parcells or whomever, but it's still a crapshoot. The Patriots hit on Brady and Bledsoe. It was enough to make them good for a LONG stretch.

As for the rest of their drafting? Some good, some bad. You picked up on the common perception that they stink at drafting in your opening post and ran with it. Their may be some truth to that, but they aren't really that bad.

So truth be known I've been down on their ability to draft for a long time... half a decade at least. I think it's less about them drafting badly and more about the media and even some fans treating them like they are holier than thou because they win. But, I do question their drafts.

I'm not really railing on Mallett. we have no idea whether he's any good or not. I still think he might be. What I'm against from a drafting standpoint is spending your 2nd rounder on a clipboard holder when you will already have one for next year (that you spent a 3rd rounder on).

Why not wait until next year to draft Malletts replacement until he actually is gone? Why not sign insurance?

I'm simply looking at spending 3rd and 2nd round picks on guys that are likely to not play at all. I can't justify spending the 2nd on a clipboard holder when you already have one for next year at least. They have other needs that could have been addressed.

If they don't win a SB and Garappolo never hits the field would this have been part of the reason why? Maybe. In theory you draft to get better on the field.

And to take it another step further. If the Bills had Kelly and did the same thing, fans here would be destroying them for that choice.

[DraftBoy]

Easley is in far more danger of arthritis given his two ACL injuries. And as you said, Dr. Andrews cleared Kujo.

Yes but there is a large difference in showing as arthritic and having the potential to become arthritic. Again we don't know about Kujo's knees we have conflicting reports.

[swiper]

Brady was a clipboard holder when he got to NE. I actually applaud them for drafting Garappalo. Fill the bin with guys that can learn under your current starter. Now they have double the chance that they have Brady's eventual replacement.

Certainly there's a lot of possible outcomes from it. But their attention to the single most important position on the field makes this Bills fan jealous.

[Goobylal]

Yes but there is a large difference in showing as arthritic and having the potential to become arthritic. Again we don't know about Kujo's knees we have conflicting reports.
I'd be concerned if Andrews hadn't sent a letter to all 32 teams clearing his knee. And arthritis can set in quicker in injured knees. Neither might have it affect their careers though.

Brady was a clipboard holder when he got to NE. I actually applaud them for drafting Garappalo. Fill the bin with guys that can learn under your current starter. Now they have double the chance that they have Brady's eventual replacement.

Certainly there's a lot of possible outcomes from it. But their attention to the single most important position on the field makes this Bills fan jealous.
Their "attention" consisted of getting lucky with a 6th rounder, which again was pure dumb luck. They've drafted many QB's since and none have been worth anything except Cassel because he got to play with a great offense and his old GM was dumb enough to trade for him. Mallett is so bad, Belichick won't even play him in blowout games and drafted another QB to groom instead of trying to extend him. Whether Garoppolo pans out remains to be seen, but given their track record, I'll bet he won't. So if you're going to be jealous of anything, be jealous of their luck.

[DesertFox24]

Kosar wasn't that good, especially at that point. Given Testaverde's play after that he was really proven right. The only reason that was controversial was because Kosar was a local hero in Cleveland. He wouldn't buy into the program and Belichick got rid of him.

He definitely had some growing pains in Cleveland (mostly with he handling of the media), but he took over a terrible team and by 1994 he had that team at 11-5. They went on to win a playoff game that year. He did that with Testaverde at QB and a defense that surrendered the fewest points in the league. The wheels fell off the next season, but much of that was due to the team moving. It was about the worst situation any coach has had to deal with in NFL history.

I understand why people hate Belichick, but anyone who is trying to say he isn't a great coach is either delusional or stupid. Yeah, he is a *****. Yeah, he is arrogant. He is also a great coach, Brady or no Brady.

The guy is not a bad coach but he is not the greatest coach in the world like people make him out to be. He is a good coach but I highly doubt he would still be a HC in this league if not for Brady.

[BB4ever]

Yeah the sure do stink at drafting but undeniablly lay the smack down on us each year.

[DynaPaul]

Thank Ernie Adams.

[Goobylal]

Thank Ernie Adams.
Yep.

[EDS]

So truth be known I've been down on their ability to draft for a long time... half a decade at least. I think it's less about them drafting badly and more about the media and even some fans treating them like they are holier than thou because they win. But, I do question their drafts.

I'm not really railing on Mallett. we have no idea whether he's any good or not. I still think he might be. What I'm against from a drafting standpoint is spending your 2nd rounder on a clipboard holder when you will already have one for next year (that you spent a 3rd rounder on).

Why not wait until next year to draft Malletts replacement until he actually is gone? Why not sign insurance?

I'm simply looking at spending 3rd and 2nd round picks on guys that are likely to not play at all. I can't justify spending the 2nd on a clipboard holder when you already have one for next year at least. They have other needs that could have been addressed.

If they don't win a SB and Garappolo never hits the field would this have been part of the reason why? Maybe. In theory you draft to get better on the field.

And to take it another step further. If the Bills had Kelly and did the same thing, fans here would be destroying them for that choice.

Isn't it obvious that the pats brain trust does not view Mallet, after seeing him in practice for a few years, as anything more than a clipboard holder at this point? Similarly, the Bills knew they needed a #1 receiver even after using three high picks in the previous 2 drafts on receivers (who many view as requiring two years to develop).

[Mr. Pink]

When Brady leaves or his game suddenly tanks.... the Pats come back to the pack.

This happens to every team when their franchise QB leaves.

When you get one you're good for a decade + when you don't have one you're bad for a decade +

Unless you're the Colts and you basically plan to suck for a year so you can get the next can't miss franchise QB.

[better days]

This happens to every team when their franchise QB leaves.

When you get one you're good for a decade + when you don't have one you're bad for a decade +

Unless you're the Colts and you basically plan to suck for a year so you can get the next can't miss franchise QB.

49ers replaced Montana with Young.

Packers replaced Favre with Rodgers.

Does not happen to every team.

[BuffaloRedleg]

49ers replaced Montana with Young.

Packers replaced Favre with Rodgers.

Does not happen to every team.

You just named 2 teams, out of 32, that have existed for decades.

So basically you are saying it doesn't happen often, and we can expect the Pats to follow suit.

[X-Era]

Isn't it obvious that the pats brain trust does not view Mallet, after seeing him in practice for a few years, as anything more than a clipboard holder at this point? Similarly, the Bills knew they needed a #1 receiver even after using three high picks in the previous 2 drafts on receivers (who many view as requiring two years to develop).No I don't think that's obvious. Nor do I think the Texans believe that if they are interested in trading for him.

[DraftBoy]

I'd be concerned if Andrews hadn't sent a letter to all 32 teams clearing his knee. And arthritis can set in quicker in injured knees. Neither might have it affect their careers though.

I'm thrilled Andrews cleared him but I can't say I'm fully confident one way or another based solely on that.

[better days]

Yes but there is a large difference in showing as arthritic and having the potential to become arthritic. Again we don't know about Kujo's knees we have conflicting reports.

We know he passed the Bills physical.

We know the Bills felt good enough about his knee to draft him.

Good enough for me.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What's even more funny is how we're actually defending just letting Mallett walk without re-signing him or ever playing him as a 3rd rounder and at the same time having no issue with drafting yet another clipboard holder in the 2nd round who at least for this year will battle for the clipboard holders job...

Would you rather they play the Bills' game of waiting until a weak QB draft and then dumping all their eggs in one guy's basket? QB is the most important position on the field. It might be the most important position in sports. They are taking multiple cracks at it to ensure they get it right.


Is this the same board? The same board that:

Argued we should never have let Byrd leave even when we offered him a contract that he wouldn't take? That we just draft players and let them leave? The same board? That now thinks the Pats are good at drafting when they draft guys in the 3rd and 2nd round that never hit the field and they then ought to let go without even trying to re-sign them? But should rather waste yet another high round pick on another guy to do the same thing?

The same board that is pissed at the Bills for letting the guys they draft leave?

How are these connected at all? The Bills are bad at drafting and then double down on that mistake by being bad at re-signing the players they do find.


The Pats could easily just sign a backup. If they are drafting these guys to be the heir to Bradys job, Mallett should be re-signed.

Mallet should be re-signed if he's actually proven he's worthy of being re-signed. You have to look forward when you make that decision, not backwards.

[alohabillsfan]

I wish buffalo sucked half as much as the patriots do at drafting, hell they might even sniff the playoffs! You fools continue to impress yourselves!!

[DesertFox24]

I wish buffalo sucked half as much as the patriots do at drafting, hell they might even sniff the playoffs! You fools continue to impress yourselves!!

Ok put our successful draft picks next to theirs, and our bust next to theirs.

Yeah we are better than them.

Their QB and the fact that old vets play their for a chance to win is only reason they are good, their draft picks have not done much.

[GingerP]

Ok put our successful draft picks next to theirs, and our bust next to theirs.

Yeah we are better than them.

Their QB and the fact that old vets play their for a chance to win is only reason they are good, their draft picks have not done much.

Here is a 3rd party source that did that type of analysis, looking at the 2006 - 2012 draft:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/04/post_264.html

It shows the Patriots 5 Pro Bowlers and 3 All-Pros during that stretch. No team drafted more.

Here is another independent source that did a ranking for the last 5 years (2009 - 2013):

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/05/07/nfl-draft-best-teams-seattle-seahawks-san-francisco-49ers-tennessee-titans-new-england-patriots/

It lists the Patriots as the best drafting team in that range, while the Bills finished 10th.

Keep in mind, the Patriots draft near the bottom of every round every year, while the Bills pick in the top half pretty much annually.

Feel free to bathe in your delusion, though.

[OpIv37]

Ok put our successful draft picks next to theirs, and our bust next to theirs.

Yeah we are better than them.

Their QB and the fact that old vets play their for a chance to win is only reason they are good, their draft picks have not done much.
This has already been proven wrong, but let's pretend it's true for a minute.

What difference does it make?

We draft better than them, but they beat us head to head, win more games, make the playoffs, and actually have div titles, conf titles and rings to show for it.

The goal. Is to win football games, not outdraft one other team.

[X-Era]

This has already been proven wrong, but let's pretend it's true for a minute.

What difference does it make?

We draft better than them, but they beat us head to head, win more games, make the playoffs, and actually have div titles, conf titles and rings to show for it.

The goal. Is to win football games, not outdraft one other team.Personally I didn't make it a competition. I challenged the notion that they are good at drafting. That's it.

[X-Era]

Here is a 3rd party source that did that type of analysis, looking at the 2006 - 2012 draft:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/04/post_264.html

It shows the Patriots 5 Pro Bowlers and 3 All-Pros during that stretch. No team drafted more.

Here is another independent source that did a ranking for the last 5 years (2009 - 2013):

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/05/07/nfl-draft-best-teams-seattle-seahawks-san-francisco-49ers-tennessee-titans-new-england-patriots/

It lists the Patriots as the best drafting team in that range, while the Bills finished 10th.

Keep in mind, the Patriots draft near the bottom of every round every year, while the Bills pick in the top half pretty much annually.

Feel free to bathe in your delusion, though.I like that you brought data but dig deeper.

The reason they rank 1st is due to a great draft (in their minds) in 2012 and a very high grade for 2013. The previous 3 were average at best. But since they ranked the 2012 and 2013 drafts so high, it's drove up the average. The rankings use games played and PFF's ranking. It's a bit deceiving considering playing in a game and starting one are not the same. The way they did it looks at "pick value" which means if a team picks a player lower and plays them a lot the data gives a higher rating for that. One could argue that the more you play a lower pick the better value you had. But, the goal is to have the highest talent on the roster possible, not lower talent that you play a lot. Add in that for some reason they gave very high grades to the Pats players even though many were not as relevant on the team and the grade may indicate.

Easiest way to say is that they are grading the Pats high because they draft low and play (not necessarily start) their players.

IMO, the goal is to get the best possible player with every pick. Not stockpile a bunch of guys that you play sometimes.

Here's the data behind this assessment:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AoYlQP-ovPSpdGZ2TnItdEFKM1ZtV3VfMU85TEJjZWc&output=html

[stuckincincy]

I don't understand why their drafting is a topic. Over 20 years, they have had only 2 seasons under .500. 14 times in the playoffs. They must be doing something right.

[Bill Cody]

Initially I shook my head on the Easley pickup in the 1st due to blown ACL's in each knee at college. But I heard that Seattle was ready to draft him right behind NE. So they get a pass on that move. Yet still, both Wilfork and Kelly are also coming off injuries. So their best move was to add another guy into coming-off-an-injury list?

But the Garappolo move is a great place to point out why they stink. They don't even need a QB right away, and they already drafted Mallett a few years back. So basically drafting Garappolo makes the Mallett pick a waste or vice versa. ZERO reason to waste picks like this. And no, I don't really care that Mallett's deal is about up. He's been on the roster and knows the system. He's had zero starts. Obviously this wasn't a move to push Brady for a starting job. It was at best insurance if he gets injured. But he hasn't and so the Pats spent a 3rd rounder on a guy to hold the clipboard. And now spent another pick, a second rounder to fight for a job holding the clipboard? Waste. The Pats are so good that they can spend 2nd and 3rd rounders on guys that have no shot to play?

The only saving grace is if the Pats do in fact trade Mallett and recoup something for the wasted pick.

Stork may have been their best pick. James White was ranked by McShay as the 263 best player and 21st ranked RB. Yet they took him at pick 130. They easily could have waited another 2 rounds and got White.

The step in the right direction for them was to not stockpile picks that they end up wasting. If they want to waste picks at least do less of it. So they headed in the right direction by not trading down a zillion times.

Yes, this team is an annual playoff team. But, they have needs and haven't made the SB in a long time. They needed help on the defense still. They lost Talib, Spikes, and Blount. Revis is a huge add but he's got some miles on his legs too. No clue why they didn't just re-sign Blount who is right now way better than White. But whatever. And they did not draft a LB which would have been a better move than Garappolo.

The easy wrap up is that their 1st pick was a guy with serious injury concerns and who is added to an interior D line that already has injury concerns and their 2nd rounder was a guy who won't see the field.

They took Garappolo because they have no plans to keep Mallet after this year AND Brady's may decide to ask for more money- his contract called for salary's of like 8m a year for the next several years. They know Brady has a ton of leverage so they are just covering themselves in case they need to move on from him at some point. They know Mallet is not an NFL starter. In fact if Garappolo shows any sign at all of being ready to be the 1st backup they will try to get a pick for Mallet this year.

[Bill Cody]

The thing your charts show is just how hard it is for all the teams to find keepers in the draft. I mean the Bills are picking top 10 every year not at the bottom of the round and you look at the laundry list of flotsam and jetsam we've picked over the years. A blind monkey with a dart board could do better. And to be fair NE has used draft picks to trade for guys like Welker and Dillon and Moss, those deals have helped them.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I wish downhill for my team and having several bad draft picks in a row resulted in my team Losing two superbowls, losing in three conference championship games, and failing to make the playoffs only once all the while never winning less than 10 games in a season since their last superbowl championship. As long as the Pats have Brady, and Bellichick, they are going to be good.