Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. Built The Stadium In Orchard Park For Many Good Reasons

[BillsImpossible]

When the Bills moved from The Rockpile to Orchard Park, RCW Jr. didn't just stick his thumb out in the air and pick OP on a whim. He did his homework, and it payed off in a big way.

That was then.

Where to build a new stadium now?

After hashing it all out, Niagara Falls would be a traffic nightmare and so would be the Outer Harbor. Both locations simply don't have the roads to handle the traffic.

Downtown Buffalo is the ideal location, but where?

The only logical place I can think of is where Coca Cola Field and One Seneca Tower currently stand.

Location is everything for any business.

It's quite easy to get home in 20 minutes from the heart of downtown Buffalo.

How many times have you taken Main Street, Delaware Ave., Niagara Street, Clinton Street, or Elmwood Ave. all the way home instead of hopping on the 190?

I think the only way the Bills could build a stadium in downtown Buffalo is if the Bisons and Seneca Nation agree to a wrecking ball in favor of a new downtown NFL stadium that would perfectly compliment the NFL, Sabres, Bisons, and Seneca Nation of Indians.

But it is very hard to please everyone in business, and the idea of leveling Coca Cola Field and One Seneca Tower is nothing but an idea at this point.

IMHO, the picture below offers the only opportunity for a new NFL stadium in downtown Buffalo.


http://i1.wp.com/www.buffalorising.com/assets_c/2013/04/One%20HSBC%20Center%20proposal3-thumb-660x380-38256.jpg?resize=660%2C380

The only viable alternative is to deconstruct The Ralph and build a new stadium on the same site in Orchard Park.

Does anyone know who owns Coca Cola Field?

Does the City own the land?

[Skooby]

This is not a terrible idea & may give Buffalo a chance at a future MLB team as well, if can be a dual-use stadium. I would assume a dome would be in order & hopefully we could host a Super Bowl within 4 years of opening.

[Mace]

Honestly if you look at any map of downtown Buffalo and surroundings there aren't many places you wouldn't want to build something.

Everything south of ex HSBC center past Pegulaville is pretty much nothing whatever, and acres of it.

[kishoph]

Does anyone know who owns Coca Cola Field?

Does the City own the land?


The City owns it, but I highly doubt they would even consider tearing it down.

[Don't Panic]

How does CC Field make all the sense in the world while the Outer Harbor makes none? I don't see that one... the OH is the spot. It'll take a lot of additional money to develop it the right way (especially to facilitate traffic), but its the way to go. Either that or just retrofit the Ralph.

As for baseball/football stadiums, that is a dead issue these days. Doesn't make the sense it used to to build like that anymore. Plus, we aren't getting a MLB team... not for many decades, at best.

[better days]

Why would you tear down a beautiful baseball Stadium that is used many more days than the 8-10 days a football Stadium would be used?

I heard the site of the former Republic Steel plant mentioned as a possibility for the new Stadium.

[tomz]

Why would you tear down a beautiful baseball Stadium that is used many more days than the 8-10 days a football Stadium would be used?

I heard the site of the former Republic Steel plant mentioned as a possibility for the new Stadium.

I like that idea myself--lots of space, could be a beautiful reclaimed harbor area in Lackawanna, especially if they build a new park around it etc--but traffic would be problematic in my opinion. One reason Orchard Park works reasonably well is the availability of major arteries in essentially all directions. We certainly wouldn't want the stadium held up over discussions about the Route 5 skyway, which I could foresee in that case. Downtown is also a problem because of the traffic. The streets mentioned above are not equipped to handle the traffic that the roads to the Ralph can deal with--not even close.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is not a terrible idea & may give Buffalo a chance at a future MLB team as well, if can be a dual-use stadium. I would assume a dome would be in order & hopefully we could host a Super Bowl within 4 years of opening.

MLB team?

Super Bowl?

I have a better chance of being the King of England than either of those happening.

[better days]

I like that idea myself--lots of space, could be a beautiful reclaimed harbor area in Lackawanna, especially if they build a new park around it etc--but traffic would be problematic in my opinion. One reason Orchard Park works reasonably well is the availability of major arteries in essentially all directions. We certainly wouldn't want the stadium held up over discussions about the Route 5 skyway, which I could foresee in that case. Downtown is also a problem because of the traffic. The streets mentioned above are not equipped to handle the traffic that the roads to the Ralph can deal with--not even close.

I agree, access like the Ralph has, can not be duplicated anywhere in the City of Buffalo.

But they talked about doing a lot of road work if the Republic site is used.

A new Stadium will provide construction jobs for a good period of time & really help the economy in WNY where ever it is built.

[WagonCircler]

After Ralph concluded that the $1 MIL cash bribe demand from a certain city official (in 1970 dollars) would be impossible to launder, he decided to explore other options. (This really happened).

[IlluminatusUIUC]

After Ralph concluded that the $1 MIL cash bribe demand from a certain city official (in 1970 dollars) would be impossible to launder, he decided to explore other options. (This really happened).

Interesting. Please elaborate.

[Fletch]

Where to build a new stadium now?

After hashing it all out, Niagara Falls would be a traffic nightmare and so would be the Outer Harbor. Both locations simply don't have the roads to handle the traffic.

Downtown Buffalo is the ideal location, but where?

The only logical place I can think of is where Coca Cola Field and One Seneca Tower currently stand.

Location is everything for any business.

It's quite easy to get home in 20 minutes from the heart of downtown Buffalo.

How many times have you taken Main Street, Delaware Ave., Niagara Street, Clinton Street, or Elmwood Ave. all the way home instead of hopping on the 190?

Great thinking for everyone that lives in Buffalo, poor thinking for anyone else.


It's quite easy to get home in 20 minutes from the heart of downtown Buffalo.

And that much more of a nightmare for anyone that has to travel from outside of Buffalo including Rochester, Syracuse, Niagara Falls or Canada.

Batavia is a much better location given that it sacrifices none of the current market but opens up at least another million potential fans in CNY.

We need that, sorely.

[Fletch]

Honestly if you look at any map of downtown Buffalo and surroundings there aren't many places you wouldn't want to build something.

There's a reason for that. Driving thru downtown these days you'd think that Buffalo is a step behind Detroit in dilapidation.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Trending Buffalo their top 4 sites... I like #3

http://www.trendingbuffalo.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-stadium-locations-narrowed-to-four/

[YardRat]

Interesting. Please elaborate.

I think he might be referring to the Paul Snyder thingie. In all honesty, my recollection is a little bit fuzzy, but I believe there was a deal in place to put Rich Stadium in either Lackawanna or Lancaster, and the team reversed direction and went to Orchard Park instead. I believe Snyder won a monetary settlement in a lawsuit.

[WagonCircler]

Interesting. Please elaborate.


Wish I could, but it would be unwise.

On the other hand, it's really not tough to figure out.

- - - Updated - - -


I think he might be referring to the Paul Snyder thingie. In all honesty, my recollection is a little bit fuzzy, but I believe there was a deal in place to put Rich Stadium in either Lackawanna or Lancaster, and the team reversed direction and went to Orchard Park instead. I believe Snyder won a monetary settlement in a lawsuit.

Nope. It was supposed to be in Downtown Buffalo.

[YardRat]

Wish I could, but it would be unwise.

On the other hand, it's really not tough to figure out.

- - - Updated - - -



Nope. It was supposed to be in Downtown Buffalo.

Was Snyder involved? If not, I have zero recollection of what you are referring to.

[WagonCircler]

Was Snyder involved? If not, I have zero recollection of what you are referring to.

Not to my knowledge. I'm talking about Gov't officials.

Here's a link to a bribery case that was reported, which involved Erie County legislators, but there's another story involving Buffalo legislators that was never reported.

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/Lockport%20NY%20Union%20Sun%20Journal/Lockport%20NY%20Union%20Sun%20Journal%201971/Lockport%20NY%20Union%20Sun%20Journal%201971%20-%200479.pdf

There was also a lawsuit regarding a Lancaster site.

But what I'm talking about was a deal that would have put the stadium in Downtown Buffalo.

Our local government has been run by crooks for a hundred years.

[YardRat]

Not to my knowledge. I'm talking about Gov't officials.

Here's a link to a bribery case that was reported, which involved Erie County legislators, but there's another story involving Buffalo legislators that was never reported.

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/Lockport%20NY%20Union%20Sun%20Journal/Lockport%20NY%20Union%20Sun%20Journal%201971/Lockport%20NY%20Union%20Sun%20Journal%201971%20-%200479.pdf

There was also a lawsuit regarding a Lancaster site.

But what I'm talking about was a deal that would have put the stadium in Downtown Buffalo.

Our local government has been run by crooks for a hundred years.

Yeah, that story doesn't implicate Wilson whatsoever and any connection is pure speculation, not to mention 'another story never reported' is pretty sketchy. Accusing Wilson of being involved in any endeavor that would include money laundering is a pretty low blow.

The lawsuit regarding Lancaster is the one that involved Snyder I believe...I'm sure Historian or somebody else remembers the details better than I.

Finally, yes, Erie County has certainly seen more than it's share of corruption and cronyism.

[WagonCircler]

Yeah, that story doesn't implicate Wilson whatsoever and any connection is pure speculation, not to mention 'another story never reported' is pretty sketchy. Accusing Wilson of being involved in any endeavor that would include money laundering is a pretty low blow.

The lawsuit regarding Lancaster is the one that involved Snyder I believe...I'm sure Historian or somebody else remembers the details better than I.

Finally, yes, Erie County has certainly seen more than it's share of corruption and cronyism.

Oh, no, neither does "my" story. Not meant to implicate Ralph at all. He totally balked--the lack of ability to launder that sum was only a "even if we were to...."

It was never even considered by Ralph. Sorry if it sounded that way.

The point of the story was that the balls to ask for the bribe were king kong sized, but they are the reason the stadium ended up not being in Buffalo.

And my reason for bringing it up was to refute the idea that Orchard Park was the first choice "after diligent research."

It wasn't. Buffalo was.

[Turf]

This is not a terrible idea & may give Buffalo a chance at a future MLB team as well, if can be a dual-use stadium. I would assume a dome would be in order & hopefully we could host a Super Bowl within 4 years of opening.

Host a Super bowl? Aint never gonna happen. The transformation goes way beyond a stadium to get there.
Tearing down legit structures is crazy.
It's so ****ing simple. East of the Depew exit off the Thruway. There's a ton of unused land out there. Could be 5 or 15 minutes. Doesn't matter. Simply add another lane both ways. You've got Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Canada, and the entire area has easy access.

[Night Train]

A dome wouldn't get Buffalo a SB but a college bowl game would be a strong possibility. They shouldn't even consider an open air stadium. Build something that will get some use.

[Historian]

They should move back to Jefferson Avenue!

[Jan Reimers]

Just to clarify, the Seneca Nation does not own One Seneca Tower or the land it sits on. The old HSBC Tower, now renamed, is owned by a NYC real estate company and is currently empty and in foreclosure.

But I like the downtown idea, somewhere accessible to I-90 and 190 some of the other major roadways. Maybe on the East Side, where some vacant land and abandoned housing could be put to productive use.

[sukie]

has anyone here attended a baseball game recently in a dual use stadium? It really suxorz.

[Mace]

There's a reason for that. Driving thru downtown these days you'd think that Buffalo is a step behind Detroit in dilapidation.

Sure. But I've been driving through downtown since those days too. People talk about the waterfront like it's a brand new maybe, but we're looking at 40 years of dorking around with it, outer or inner harbor and if some of it is useful now it's about 30 years late. Unless you go back 40 years, and you might, you aren't going back farther, it just goes on and on.

For the better part of my life there was no excuse not to do a crap with what they are still dorking around with not doing a crap with.

You can be a kid, nothing much has changed down there besides the condition of the old buildings. They have made really nice parts of waterfront, and why is this still going on after 40 years ?

Downtown was slaughtered by rapid transit decades ago, I remember it, doesn't anyone else, what do these people get paid for ?

So now it's not so bad as terrible, but woo we almost have a waterfront. Buffalo rebirth they tell me, and never finish a crap, new bridge to Canada was supposed to be done by y2k, a signature bridge, so vote for the same mayor again.

I see the same downtown you do, saw a diff one when I was a kid, but yeah, it's getting old, people seem to love useless.

[WagonCircler]

has anyone here attended a baseball game recently in a dual use stadium? It really suxorz.

Seeing a football game in a dual use stadium is even worse.

[better days]

I heard one of the designers of the new Stadium on the John Murphy show yesterday.

This company also designed the new Cowboys Stadium as well as the Colts & Vikings Stadiums.

He said the first thing addressed in their design are the NFL requirements to host a Super Bowl.

He talked about a dome on the waterfront property.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I heard one of the designers of the new Stadium on the John Murphy show yesterday.

This company also designed the new Cowboys Stadium as well as the Colts & Vikings Stadiums.

He said the first thing addressed in their design are the NFL requirements to host a Super Bowl.

He talked about a dome on the waterfront property.

I think a Super Bowl in Buffalo is a pipe dream, but with a domed stadium then a college bowl game (provided those still exist in a few years), NCAA basketball regionals, and other such events could come through.