Was the Trade with Cleveland a smart one, I think so, do you?

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

I believe the Bills took Watkins b/c they felt they had their "go-up-and-get-it" WR in Williams and felt by trading Stevie Johnson they could secure back their 4th round pick they gave up to Cleveland! They have Robert Woods and Goodwin to go with Watkins covering all the receiver positions they would need at one time. Yes, they gave up their 1st rounder next year but don't forget they were willing to go all the way to the Houston's number one pick for the same player. With going up to the 4th pick in the draft they moved from a team (Bufalo) finishing 6-10 to where the team (Cleveland) picks with a 4-12 season.

I'm convinced the Bills will be picking somewhere in the middle of the pack next year with the improvements this off season! The general perception with Buffalo giving up their #1 pick is that they would be picking somewhere in the 1 to 10 spot in the 2015 draft. Personally I don't believe that! I think it will prove to be a great move and think the Bills will find first round talent with the 2nd round pick next year like they did this year with RT, Kouandjio!

I believe Whaley and staff did an outstanding job of drafting the players needed for the Bills to take the next step and leap towards the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. Whaley did what he had to do to bring excitement back to the fans in Buffalo!

[Night Train]

Time will tell. Watkins was the only one I'd trade up for but a solid signing in Vet FA will have to replace the 1st round pick. Overall, I like the draft. The skill positions look deep on O. Lots of OL help arrived.

About time they tried something different.

[Buffalogic]

It's a good trade for us. If EJ doesn't work out and he needs to be replaced down the road, the team will still have nice playmakers for a new rookie QB. If he does work out then it's perfect.

[Woodman]

It was aggressive and for that reason I love the move, oh and it didn't hurt getting Sammy Watkins one bit.

[Novacane]

I like it now. I hope I still feel that way a year from now.

[TacklingDummy]

QBs make the WR so no.

[BuffaloRedleg]

It was completely crazy, but if we make the playoffs then I guess then it is worth it.

If we don't make the playoffs it is mostly a disaster.

I'm not confident we'll sniff the playoffs year, but I hope I'm wrong of course.

[Historian]

It was terrible. Chip Banks did not want to play here in the first place!

But it did help us land Jim Kelly.

[better days]

It was terrible. Chip Banks did not want to play here in the first place!

But it did help us land Jim Kelly.

Did you mean Tom Cousineau, the LB the Bills drafted that refused to sign with the Bills?

The Bills traded his rights to the Browns & used the Browns draft pick to draft Jim Kelly.

[Dr. Lecter]

Did you mean Tom Cousineau, the LB the Bills drafted that refused to sign with the Bills?

The Bills traded his rights to the Browns & used the Browns draft pick to draft Jim Kelly.

No. He means Chip Banks. He was originally traded to Buffalo.

[The Jokeman]

Short term this trade isn't going to help the Bills as I can't see Sammy stepping in as a rookie and becoming our #1 WR. Perhaps in a few years he will. Yet short term because he won't be impactful it might lead to the Browns getting a pretty good extra 1st out of it and in turn get a pretty good player out of it. Yet the Browns haven't been a strong drafting team since re-entering the league so perhaps it will be another "Julie Jones" mistake on their behalf. As look back to our last true #1 WR Eric Moulds, he wasn't much to talk about in his first two years but a depth guy.

[Historian]

You seem to be really down on the organization this offseason Joker....why?

[Buffalogic]

Short term this trade isn't going to help the Bills as I can't see Sammy stepping in as a rookie and becoming our #1 WR. Perhaps in a few years he will. Yet short term because he won't be impactful it might lead to the Browns getting a pretty good extra 1st out of it and in turn get a pretty good player out of it. Yet the Browns haven't been a strong drafting team since re-entering the league so perhaps it will be another "Julie Jones" mistake on their behalf. As look back to our last true #1 WR Eric Moulds, he wasn't much to talk about in his first two years but a depth guy.
The league is different now. There is so much passing you can't use the rookie WR gauge of yester year. The Browns have one player on their team left from the 5 picks Atlanta gave them. Atlanta won that trade. We will win this one. Really, if I was a Cleveland fan I'd be way more pissed because they have a desperate need for receiver and the top guy falls into their laps and they trade it. So dumb.

[Buffalogic]

And which first round picks have the bills selected over the last ten years that you can honestly say, this person is irreplaceable? I can think of a borderline one. Dareus. That's it. People have the mindset that we are giving up eventual stars and over the last ten years, that simply is not true.

[Woodman]

Short term this trade isn't going to help the Bills as I can't see Sammy stepping in as a rookie and becoming our #1 WR. Perhaps in a few years he will. Yet short term because he won't be impactful it might lead to the Browns getting a pretty good extra 1st out of it and in turn get a pretty good player out of it. Yet the Browns haven't been a strong drafting team since re-entering the league so perhaps it will be another "Julie Jones" mistake on their behalf. As look back to our last true #1 WR Eric Moulds, he wasn't much to talk about in his first two years but a depth guy.

He's our number ONE the second he steps on the field.

Is he an immediate impact player?

Hell yeah!!!

[The Jokeman]

The league is different now. There is so much passing you can't use the rookie WR gauge of yester year. The Browns have one player on their team left from the 5 picks Atlanta gave them. Atlanta won that trade. We will win this one. Really, if I was a Cleveland fan I'd be way more pissed because they have a desperate need for receiver and the top guy falls into their laps and they trade it. So dumb.

It's not really that different, look at last year's rookie crops of WRs. Tavon Austin went 8th overall last year and didn't produce #1 WR type numbers. The only guy who did was Keenan Allen but it's not like he had a lot of competition in San Diego for catches. Whereas Watkins is going to be competing with Woods and Williams. Again short term (see first two years) I think Cleveland might win out but long term it might be us as the winner. It all depends on what Cleveland does with it's picks but right now I give them the advantage as they have more picks then we do and to me quantity is above quality right now all things considered.

[The Jokeman]

He's our number ONE the second he steps on the field.

Is he an immediate impact player?

Hell yeah!!!
and Tavon Austin was a playmaker and expected to be the #1 in St Louis last year and look what he did and Justin Blackmon was expected to be the Jags #1 his rookie year. Though if you want to make comparisons look at Torrey Smith and Percy Harvin rookie years as that's who skillset wise most compare Watkins too. I wouldn't say either one played like #1s as rookies. I'll be happy to see Watkins put up 45 catches for 700 yards and 5 TDs but is that enough to put the Bills as a playoff team? Most likely not unless Woods and Williams put up similar numbers.

[The Jokeman]

And which first round picks have the bills selected over the last ten years that you can honestly say, this person is irreplaceable? I can think of a borderline one. Dareus. That's it. People have the mindset that we are giving up eventual stars and over the last ten years, that simply is not true.
It's the potential of what that pick could be, as one could argue had we had a better track record of drafting we could have ended up with Orakpo vs Maybin or Dez Bryant vs Spiler or Cromartie vs McKelvin.

[The Jokeman]

You seem to be really down on the organization this offseason Joker....why?

I was content with the offseason prior to the draft as looks like we shored up some needs like MLB, a 3rd CB, a starter caliber WR to pair opposite Stevie. I was even willing to accept taking someone like Ebron with pick 9 even thought I felt Lewan would be the better short term fit. Yet come draft day we blew up by picking up Watkins as honestly asking a rookie to step in as a #1 WR is asking too much IMO. It's called having realistic expectations and to me Stevie > Watkins in 2014 if we're trying to make the playoffs. Toss in we don't have a #1 draft pick next year which could prove more valuable if no one steps up and replaces the Pro Bowl S we let walk as an UFA or finding a starting TE which we still lack. As to me the whole Watkins replacing Stevie is a move for a move sake, it doesn't really improve this team in 2014 IMO. I do see the long term benefit of the trade but again if we truly were hoping to make the playoffs in 2014 it's going to be hard as we have a second year QB who only has 2 of his primary passing options on this team and prior to the draft he had 3 and we had a D-coordinator that turned one of the leagues worst defenses to at least middle of the road lost to another organization and now we're bringing in a new D-coordinator who plays a scheme (4-3) that we saw guys like Wanny and Edwards play and se us fail and that was with a Pro Bowl FS on the roster.

[Buffalogic]

It's the potential of what that pick could be, as one could argue had we had a better track record of drafting we could have ended up with Orakpo vs Maybin or Dez Bryant vs Spiler or Cromartie vs McKelvin.Yes you could argue that, but it didn't happen. What happened was we whiffed repeatedly. Those are the facts. You have to compare the trade to what has been, not what could have been. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Buffalogic]

It's not really that different, look at last year's rookie crops of WRs. Tavon Austin went 8th overall last year and didn't produce #1 WR type numbers. The only guy who did was Keenan Allen but it's not like he had a lot of competition in San Diego for catches. Whereas Watkins is going to be competing with Woods and Williams. Again short term (see first two years) I think Cleveland might win out but long term it might be us as the winner. It all depends on what Cleveland does with it's picks but right now I give them the advantage as they have more picks then we do and to me quantity is above quality right now all things considered.How can Cleveland have the edge when they have already squandered a better situation? I think you go with the talent, not the lotto tickets.

To put it in perspective the Browns traded Atlanta's second to move up in the first round for Phil Taylor. So they used Atlanta's first and a second to get him. They spent a fourth round pick to move up from 3 to 4 (yes, idiotic I know) for Trent Richardson. They used Atlanta's next first round pick for Brandon Weeden. Then they picked Greg Little in the second round. That's a miserable failure. Horrible.

People like to think a lot about the gems in draft and forget there are a lot more landmines. I'll cash in my lotto tickets for a true star and I think the bills did that.

And just to address another comment, Tavon Austin isn't a number one receiver. Think Dez Bryant.

[Raptor]

The trade is about EJ Manuel, not S.Watkins....EJ ****s the bed next year and this trade likely locked the Bills in for another 3-5 years of no playoffs

[The Jokeman]

How can Cleveland have the edge when they have already squandered a better situation? I think you go with the talent, not the lotto tickets.

To put it in perspective the Browns traded Atlanta's second to move up in the first round for Phil Taylor. So they used Atlanta's first and a second to get him. They spent a fourth round pick to move up from 3 to 4 (yes, idiotic I know) for Trent Richardson. They used Atlanta's next first round pick for Brandon Weeden. Then they picked Greg Little in the second round. That's a miserable failure. Horrible.

People like to think a lot about the gems in draft and forget there are a lot more landmines. I'll cash in my lotto tickets for a true star and I think the bills did that.

And just to address another comment, Tavon Austin isn't a number one receiver. Think Dez Bryant.

If Watkins can become another Torrey Smith I'll be pleased but again if am only talking 2014 I don't like this trade. Yet if the Browns do as poorly as they did in drafting after making the "Julio Jones" trade I won't have many problems either.

[Mr. Pink]

It was terrible. Chip Banks did not want to play here in the first place!

But it did help us land Jim Kelly.

Banks was an awesome linebacker who decided to ruin his career over drugs.

[better days]

The trade is about EJ Manuel, not S.Watkins....EJ ****s the bed next year and this trade likely locked the Bills in for another 3-5 years of no playoffs

Whaley, Marrone & the Bills are all in on EJ.

Before the draft, Whaley said the Bills are at the threshold, knocking on the door of the playoffs.

I guess we will find out about Whaleys judgement pretty soon.

[The Jokeman]

Banks was an awesome linebacker who decided to ruin his career over drugs.

and him deciding to not play in Buffalo was one of the best things to ever happen to the franchise. We can thank Banks for that because if he did play here then we would never been able to get Ronnie Harmon which ultimately lead us to trade Greg Bell for Biscuit and eventually draft Thurman Thomas. Also in not getting Banks we also drafted Shane Conlan in 1987.

[Woodman]

and Tavon Austin was a playmaker and expected to be the #1 in St Louis last year and look what he did and Justin Blackmon was expected to be the Jags #1 his rookie year. Though if you want to make comparisons look at Torrey Smith and Percy Harvin rookie years as that's who skillset wise most compare Watkins too. I wouldn't say either one played like #1s as rookies. I'll be happy to see Watkins put up 45 catches for 700 yards and 5 TDs but is that enough to put the Bills as a playoff team? Most likely not unless Woods and Williams put up similar numbers.

I wouldn't compare him to anybody.

He's number 1 the second he steps onto the field.

[The Jokeman]

I wouldn't compare him to anybody.

He's number 1 the second he steps onto the field.

Number 1 in name only until he shows it on the field.

[Woodman]

Number 1 in name only until he shows it on the field.

Number one from jump street.

[Mace]

I don't think so no. He can be the bestest receiver, won't mean nothing. I went through this with Spiller on another board and we didn't trade anything for him.

Is no offense to anyone. I really like Manuel. Watkins is a stud. I don't think this works well here, will be happy to look stupid

[Mr. Pink]

and him deciding to not play in Buffalo was one of the best things to ever happen to the franchise. We can thank Banks for that because if he did play here then we would never been able to get Ronnie Harmon which ultimately lead us to trade Greg Bell for Biscuit and eventually draft Thurman Thomas. Also in not getting Banks we also drafted Shane Conlan in 1987.

Banks in his prime > Conlan in his prime. It's close on Biscuit in his prime to be honest.

Dunno if the drug thing would have happened here, if he kept himself clean people here would have thought of him as the best LB on the Bills in the past 30 years.

He was that good...on the field.

[The Jokeman]

Banks in his prime > Conlan in his prime. It's close on Biscuit in his prime to be honest.

Dunno if the drug thing would have happened here, if he kept himself clean people here would have thought of him as the best LB on the Bills in the past 30 years.

He was that good...on the field.

My point was more that because Banks elected not coming here it lead to other players coming here and in the scheme of things altered Buffalo Bills history as we know it. Same thing with Chris Burkett, in letting him go it ultimately lead to James Lofton coming here. Who's to say we wouldn't do the same with Burkett instead of Lofton but one has to wonder.

[sudzy]

No. He means Chip Banks. He was originally traded to Buffalo.

Yes, I remember. But. it was the Cousineau that help us get Kelly. Banks was going to be part of the Kosar trade. And when Banks refuse to come to Buffalo, the Browns trade their 1st rounder 1985. So Chips Banks = Derrick Burroughs

[The Jokeman]

Yes, I remember. But. it was the Cousineau that help us get Kelly. Banks was going to be part of the Kosar trade. And when Banks refuse to come to Buffalo, the Browns trade their 1st rounder 1985. So Chips Banks = Derrick Burroughs

Instead, the Browns sent their first-round picks in the regular 1985 (that we traded to the Packers for their 1st and 2nd picks in 1985 that turned out to be Burroughs in Round 1 and Chris Burkett, we also got the Browns 1st pick in the 1986 drafts (Harmon), a 1985 third-rounder (Hal Garner) and 1986 sixth-rounder (which we in turn traded to Atlanta for Don Smith).

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/12/cleveland_browns_100_best_all-_13.html

Wo again can thank Chip Banks on so many levels. As him turning us down ultimately lead us to getting Thurman Thomas and to a degree James Lofton, who were key elements of the offense that lead us to our Super Bowl runs.

[sudzy]

Instead, the Browns sent their first-round picks in the regular 1985 (that we traded to the Packers for their 1st and 2nd picks in 1985 that turned out to be Burroughs in Round 1 and Chris Burkett, we also got the Browns 1st pick in the 1986 drafts (Harmon), a 1985 third-rounder (Hal Garner) and 1986 sixth-rounder (which we in turn traded to Atlanta for Don Smith).

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/12/cleveland_browns_100_best_all-_13.html



After looking back at that trade, the Watkins trade doesn't look so bad. The Browns seemed to have given up a lot to get Kosar. Who went on to have an OK NFL career. One Pro Bowl, 81.8 career passer rating. The Bills got Burroughs (5 years 6 ints), Burkett (5 years with the Bills 137 rec), Harmon (4 years with Bills 970 rushing 1452 receiving), Garner (5 years 67 tackles) and Smith (one year with Bills 82 rushing 225 receiving). I wouldn't classify Kosar as great, but, the Bills didn't really make out that great with the picks. If Watkins can be great, this trade might not be as bad as it first seemed.