Brandon chimes in on Watkins pick

[stuckincincy]

Bills CEO: Trading up for Watkins not about impressing new owners
By Ryan Wilson | CBSSports.com May 27, 2014 10:36 am ET


"History says that the Bills gave up too much to land wide receiver Sammy Watkins with the No. 4 pick in the 2014 NFL Draft. But team CEO Russ Brandon said that decision had nothing to do with making a good impression on whomever takes over ownership of the franchise in the wake of Ralph Wilson's death.

"It has nothing to do with the future," Brandon told NFL.com's Judy Battista. "It is everything about the future is now."...


Full article:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24573542/bills-ceo-trading-up-for-watkins-not-about-impressing-new-owner

[OpIv37]

The more I think about it, the more this wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than you" move.

The consensus is that Watkins is a great player but we gave up too much for him. Yeah, right now it's all speculation from draftniks and sports reporters, and speculation can be- and often is- wrong. But it is rarely wrong when there is this much consensus from so many varied sources.

[DraftBoy]

The more I think about it, the more this wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than you" move.

The consensus is that Watkins is a great player but we gave up too much for him. Yeah, right now it's all speculation from draftniks and sports reporters, and speculation can be- and often is- wrong. But it is rarely wrong when there is this much consensus from so many varied sources.

How the hell is this a smarter than you move? The smarter than you move would of been to deal up to take Evans over Watkins. Not deal up to take the best offensive skill position player in the draft.

[mightysimi]

Or trading back into the first round for a fourth round QB.

[stuckincincy]

The more I think about it, the more this wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than you" move.

The consensus is that Watkins is a great player but we gave up too much for him. Yeah, right now it's all speculation from draftniks and sports reporters, and speculation can be- and often is- wrong. But it is rarely wrong when there is this much consensus from so many varied sources.

Heh - Brandon's (grammatically incorrect) "It is everything about the future is now." reminded me of former 'Skins HC George Allen and his quote, "The future is now." And his so-called "Over the Hill" gang:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Over-the-Hill_Gang_%28American_football%29

[OpIv37]

How the hell is this a smarter than you move? The smarter than you move would of been to deal up to take Evans over Watkins. Not deal up to take the best offensive skill position player in the draft.

It's a "smarter than you" move because
A) history shows that trading up in the draft rarely if ever pays off and
B) it's a "win now" move despite the fact that history shows that a WR alone- even a great one- rarely if ever puts a mediocre team over the top.

It goes against historical reality in not one but TWO ways. And the "win now" mentality shows that the Bills'brass thinks more highly of the current roster than pretty much EVERYONE ELSE, save a few homers on this board.

[justasportsfan]

The more I think about it, the more this wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than you" move.

The consensus is that Watkins is a great player but we gave up too much for him. Yeah, right now it's all speculation from draftniks and sports reporters, and speculation can be- and often is- wrong. But it is rarely wrong when there is this much consensus from so many varied sources.

Smarter than you would be bringing in another Maybin or Whitner.

[justasportsfan]

It's a "smarter than you" move because
A) history shows that trading up in the draft rarely if ever pays off and
B) it's a "win now" move despite the fact that history shows that a WR alone- even a great one- rarely if ever puts a mediocre team over the top.

It goes against historical reality in not one but TWO ways. And the "win now" mentality shows that the Bills'brass thinks more highly of the current roster than pretty much EVERYONE ELSE, save a few homers on this board.So what if it's a win now. You were all about the redskins way and whined about how we did nothing while the fins signed FA's left and right only to be swept by Thad. You're arguing with yourself again.

[OpIv37]

Smarter than you would be bringing in another Maybin or Whitner.

Those were picks that went against the consensus too: everyone knew Orakpo was better than Maybin and no one thought Whitner deserved to go that high. Turns out everyone was right and the team was wrong. I think that's where we are ye again.

- - - Updated - - -


Smarter than you would be bringing in another Maybin or Whitner.

Those were picks that went against the consensus too: everyone knew Orakpo was better than Maybin and no one thought Whitner deserved to go that high. Turns out everyone was right and the team was wrong. I think that's where we are ye again.

[The Jokeman]

It's a "smarter than you" move because
A) history shows that trading up in the draft rarely if ever pays off and
B) it's a "win now" move despite the fact that history shows that a WR alone- even a great one- rarely if ever puts a mediocre team over the top.

It goes against historical reality in not one but TWO ways. And the "win now" mentality shows that the Bills'brass thinks more highly of the current roster than pretty much EVERYONE ELSE, save a few homers on this board.

My BIGGEST issue with this being called a WIN NOW move is that most WRs don't produce significant stats in their rookie years unless 1)The rookie is the only guy on his team and they have no one else to throw to (see Keenan Allen) or 2)The rookie has amazing abilities and playing with another great talent at the position (see Randy Moss). Yet truth be told most WRs take a full 3 seasons before living up to their potential. Watkins might be an exception though something tells me he won't as he doesn't grade out as an impact WR when look at his combine numbers. I've said it before but short term I hate this move but if in three years Watkins can put up Torrey Smith 2014 numbers then I'll be pleased but if we're clearly playing for 2014 I think this move was foolish.

[WagonCircler]

Who cares what that idiot says.

Dead career walking.

He is on his 14th minute of fame.

[justasportsfan]

Those were picks that went against the consensus too: everyone knew Orakpo was better than Maybin and no one thought Whitner deserved to go that high. Turns out everyone was right and the team was wrong. .
exactly. Everyone thought Orakpo was better but Jauron thought he was smarter thus drafting Maybin .

I think that's where we are ye again.wait, you use EVERYONES consensus in the Maybin situation, yet consensus is Watkins is the best receiver and by some other people the best player in this years draft and that consensus doesn't apply all of a sudden?

WRONG! "thats where we are yet again " would be drafting a player against the consensus.

[trapezeus]

i agree, watkins alone most likely will not the bills any better than they were,

but the gamble is that EJ was dealt a crappy hand with injuries and delivered a respectable rookie year stat line. if you believe that he has the ability to step up and he gets the support of an excellent WR and he can make an excellent WR look great with catchable passes that can be turned into big yards, the bills will get better very quickly.

if they believed they got EJ wrong and that he's a dud, then this move made no sense.

It is a balls out type gamble to make and believe in your convictions. i think whaley is making hte right choice. the question to me is coaching. can the defense stay as good as it was last year and turn the corner into lights out top5-10 defense. Can it carry a team to wins? and can hackett put a fairly decent team on paper in a position to succeed. that's out of whaley's hands. that's in marrone's. hopefully he's up to the challenge.

[DraftBoy]

It's a "smarter than you" move because
A) history shows that trading up in the draft rarely if ever pays off and

More recent evidence with a trade up for a stud WR worked out pretty well in Atlanta.


B) it's a "win now" move despite the fact that history shows that a WR alone- even a great one- rarely if ever puts a mediocre team over the top.

Win now has nothing to with "smarter than you".


It goes against historical reality in not one but TWO ways. And the "win now" mentality shows that the Bills'brass thinks more highly of the current roster than pretty much EVERYONE ELSE, save a few homers on this board.

The two most recent examples of top flight WR trades up dont agree with your historical argument (Julio and Austin) and you don't know what mentality they have you only know the PR fluff they put out. The truth is if Watkins is a player tomorrow or in three years doesn't make a bit of difference. All that matters is that he produces and I like his odds.

You're trying to force yourself to find new ways to dislike this team.

[justasportsfan]

You're trying to force yourself to find new ways to dislike this team.

This is what OP is all about!

[Fletch]

Gee, I wonder what brain boy Brandon has to say. Wait, ... here it is ...


"History says that the Bills gave up too much to land wide receiver Sammy Watkins with the No. 4 pick in the 2014 NFL Draft. But team CEO Russ Brandon said that decision had nothing to do with making a good impression on whomever takes over ownership of the franchise in the wake of Ralph Wilson's death.

"It has nothing to do with the future," Brandon told NFL.com's Judy Battista. "It is everything about the future is now."...

History also proves that no team has done what this team says it's going to do by drafting a WR. Naturally the brains of this organization know better than the collective history of the NFL combined. We as fans have been treated to this hubris on and off for a while now.


Brandon told NFL.com's Judy Battista. "It is everything about the future is now."...

Hmmm, where have we heard that before?

I know, it's coming back to me now.

We heard it when Levy took over the team not even ten years ago, exclaimed how "the future is now," to the same response as those defending this draft pick are making now, prior to falling flat and announcing that we were rebuilding the next season, after announcing the prior season I might add, that we were not rebuilding.

[Fletch]

Who cares what that idiot says.

Dead career walking.

He is on his 14th minute of fame.

If only. The walking dead seem to have permanent careers at OBD. All you have to do is have some childhood or collegiate connection, and eh voila, BINGO! A no-show (brains) job!

[trapezeus]

More recent evidence with a trade up for a stud WR worked out pretty well in Atlanta.



Win now has nothing to with "smarter than you".



The two most recent examples of top flight WR trades up dont agree with your historical argument (Julio and Austin) and you don't know what mentality they have you only know the PR fluff they put out. The truth is if Watkins is a player tomorrow or in three years doesn't make a bit of difference. All that matters is that he produces and I like his odds.

You're trying to force yourself to find new ways to dislike this team.

it is also the offseason. hopes are high. every year we go through this dissecting why their out of ordinary move makes sense and how at the very least the playoff drought has to come to an end.

yet every year, they have managed to put in a putrid effort that just gets worse as the season wears on. With the exception of the Mularkey hamburger season, each season petered out by like week 6 and every week got harder to watch. there is some gapping hole that sinks the team, whether its injuries or not enough depth, something gets them. having your first round pick mitigates some of that risk.

the weakness of the trade is that the bills really need everything to come together to be a top10-15 team or better. Everything! and out of 15 years, we've picked inside the top 12, quite a bit. so if we can't pick in the top 12 when we had a pick, for a team that may miss the playoffs, it's the type of gamble that will leave the team behind. Especially if EJ can't step it up big time. if he is injured again and the team is losing games, it will be obvious that we need another qb. and we won't be able to draft that person.

i get what they tried to do, and i'm fine with rooting that on. i don't think it makes a lot of sense and worse, i just wish these guys who do these things would have their chips taken away at some point for failing so constantly. But you know if this doesn't work out brandon will still be there. and maybe whaley will or won't. who knows. but other teams, these bold moves would have big consequences for not working out. and that just never happens in buffalo. and that is where a lot of the resentment to the front office exists.

how many other teams have missed the playoffs 14 years in a row and have people saying things like "oh GM didn't make that pick, he was an assistant at the time when that failed pick came up" or "brandon was just a senior executive and not responsible for picking the 3rd failed coach on his watch where ralph was pretty clearly stepping away from day to day operations?

Other teams that have been this bad have been gutted. but the bills keep these guys. If you had such a cushy job, wouldn't you feel like you should gamble more?

[Fletch]

It's a "smarter than you" move because
A) history shows that trading up in the draft rarely if ever pays off and
B) it's a "win now" move despite the fact that history shows that a WR alone- even a great one- rarely if ever puts a mediocre team over the top.

It goes against historical reality in not one but TWO ways. And the "win now" mentality shows that the Bills'brass thinks more highly of the current roster than pretty much EVERYONE ELSE, save a few homers on this board.

No, it's a "smarter than you" move because no WR drafted has ever done what Whaley and now Brandon claim they're going to do.

Once again, "smarter than everyone else" including a wealth of NFL history to demonstrate that such thinking is beyond the foolish.

[Fletch]

Heh - Brandon's (grammatically incorrect) "It is everything about the future is now." reminded me of former 'Skins HC George Allen and his quote, "The future is now." And his so-called "Over the Hill" gang:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Over-the-Hill_Gang_%28American_football%29

Don't forget, Levy said the same thing what, 8 seasons ago now. He even boldly told us that we weren't rebuilding, but then after the season changed his mind and said that we were rebuilding.

[Fletch]

How the hell is this a smarter than you move? The smarter than you move would of been to deal up to take Evans over Watkins. Not deal up to take the best offensive skill position player in the draft.

I'll tell you what, if we could, I'd bet you anything that Evans will have both the better rookie season as well as the better NFL career.

[stuckincincy]

Don't forget, Levy said the same thing what, 8 seasons ago now. He even boldly told us that we weren't rebuilding, but then after the season changed his mind and said that we were rebuilding.

I forget little. My post was a reference to Allen, not a comment on Levy.

[Fletch]

I forget little. My post was a reference to Allen, not a comment on Levy.

Understood, but the more recent relevant example is of Levy. Many Bills fans don't know what you're referring to without you mentioning it. They shouldn't have too much difficulty remembering how Levy barged in and spoke like he was an iconic GM elsewhere.

[X-Era]

The more I think about it, the more this wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than you" move.

The consensus is that Watkins is a great player but we gave up too much for him. Yeah, right now it's all speculation from draftniks and sports reporters, and speculation can be- and often is- wrong. But it is rarely wrong when there is this much consensus from so many varied sources.That's not the consensus even.

In my opinion, we moved up for the best player in the draft and one of the best WR's in the past decade.

It's a Julio Jones style move. The Falcons had to move much higher from 27 to 6. But in essence, what the prospect represented was very similar... And in the Jones trade, the Falcons got the 2nd WR drafted, not even the 1st.

Giving up "a lot" does not equal giving up "too much"

[X-Era]

I'll tell you what, if we could, I'd bet you anything that Evans will have both the better rookie season as well as the better NFL career.
I doubt either will happen. The only chance of that is if the Bills don't throw him the ball as much as Evans get's it. And I think it very unlikely that Evans will have the better career.

[WagonCircler]

More recent evidence with a trade up for a stud WR worked out pretty well in Atlanta.
.

Sure, ignore the blatant variable.

Matt Ryan>>>>>>>>>>EJ Manual.

[DesertFox24]

This trade is pretty simple if the bills go 8-8 or better and have a draft pick near 20 or make the playoffs then this was a win. If EJ blows up and proves to not be the franchise QB and we are in the top 10 again then this trade was an epic failure.

In other words we will not know until December at the earliest.

[Buffalogic]

Sure, ignore the blatant variable.

Matt Ryan>>>>>>>>>>EJ Manual.
Yeah, let's not draft the best receiver in the last however many years because some idiot fan (you) wants to quit on a young qb after he played what, 10 games? You would be the worst GM ever. Ever.

I'm not even an EJ fanboy, but quitting this early on anyone would be a mistake. Handcuffing your offense because you don't believe in the QB is just asinine, so it's completely on par with all the other just piss you post on here.

[Night Train]

Brandon should stick to marketing and making sure Littman gives him his cut upon the team sale.

His quotes mean nothing, when it comes to football players. I'll grade the Watkins move myself.

[The Jokeman]

More recent evidence with a trade up for a stud WR worked out pretty well in Atlanta.



Win now has nothing to with "smarter than you".



The two most recent examples of top flight WR trades up dont agree with your historical argument (Julio and Austin) and you don't know what mentality they have you only know the PR fluff they put out. The truth is if Watkins is a player tomorrow or in three years doesn't make a bit of difference. All that matters is that he produces and I like his odds.

You're trying to force yourself to find new ways to dislike this team.
I think Op's and my concern is if Watkins doesn't produce in 2015 is it will lead to the Bills giving up another top 12 pick in the draft and as a result fail fill another hole with talent. I know you had issues with Eric Ebron but let's play a What IF situation. What IF the Bills had drafted Ebron, what kind of impact would you have him with Stevie Johnson still in the fold compared to what we have now which is Watkins and no Stevie? Then you factor in we also lost our top pick in 2015. So it's a matter of how you grade out talent. I mean hypothetically the Bills in trading up for Watkins gave up the chance to land Ebron, Amari Cooper and/or Jaelen Strong, as I'll consider the 4th Rounder we gave up in the Cleveland trade to be gone as instead it went to the the Eagles for Bryce Brown. Do you really value Watkins to be that superior as a rookie that it was worth losing out at the chance of a #1TE and a #1WR?

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Tuttle

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Tuttle)
The more I think about it, the more this wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than you" move.

The consensus is that Watkins is a great player but we gave up too much for him. Yeah, right now it's all speculation from draftniks and sports reporters, and speculation can be- and often is- wrong. But it is rarely wrong when there is this much consensus from so many varied sources.

[sudzy]

Or trading back into the first round for a fourth round QB.

Just to be clear. Are you referring to trading back into the first from the second and drafting a 4th round QB (Losman) or trading back or down from 8 to 16 and drafting a 4th round QB (EJ)? Both would qualify as "I'm smarter the you."

[X-Era]

Yeah, let's not draft the best receiver in the last however many years because some idiot fan (you) wants to quit on a young qb after he played what, 10 games? You would be the worst GM ever. Ever.

I'm not even an EJ fanboy, but quitting this early on anyone would be a mistake. Handcuffing your offense because you don't believe in the QB is just asinine, so it's completely on par with all the other just piss you post on here.Wagon Circler blasting Wagon Circler?

Play nicer. Both of you... or however many of you are in there.

:D:

[DraftBoy]

Who ignored it? Nobody said EJ was Ryan. There was never a QB qualifier offered in the discussion.

[DraftBoy]

I think Op's and my concern is if Watkins doesn't produce in 2015 is it will lead to the Bills giving up another top 12 pick in the draft and as a result fail fill another hole with talent. I know you had issues with Eric Ebron but let's play a What IF situation. What IF the Bills had drafted Ebron, what kind of impact would you have him with Stevie Johnson still in the fold compared to what we have now which is Watkins and no Stevie? Then you factor in we also lost our top pick in 2015. So it's a matter of how you grade out talent. I mean hypothetically the Bills in trading up for Watkins gave up the chance to land Ebron, Amari Cooper and/or Jaelen Strong, as I'll consider the 4th Rounder we gave up in the Cleveland trade to be gone as instead it went to the the Eagles for Bryce Brown. Do you really value Watkins to be that superior as a rookie that it was worth losing out at the chance of a #1TE and a #1WR?

I think that viewpoint is short sighted. Watkins and this trade isn't evaluated just on what happens in 2015. I don't care if we go 0-16 next season and the Browns get the top pick. That's not the end of this deal nor how it will be evaluated long term.

I value Watkins far more than Johnson and Ebron, absolutely.

[OpIv37]

exactly. Everyone thought Orakpo was better but Jauron thought he was smarter thus drafting Maybin .
wait, you use EVERYONES consensus in the Maybin situation, yet consensus is Watkins is the best receiver and by some other people the best player in this years draft and that consensus doesn't apply all of a sudden?

WRONG! "thats where we are yet again " would be drafting a player against the consensus.

You're oversimplifying and neglecting the very important reality of what we gave up to get the player. The consensus is that trading up in the first round rarely pays off and we gave up too much.

[OpIv37]

More recent evidence with a trade up for a stud WR worked out pretty well in Atlanta.



Win now has nothing to with "smarter than you".



The two most recent examples of top flight WR trades up dont agree with your historical argument (Julio and Austin) and you don't know what mentality they have you only know the PR fluff they put out. The truth is if Watkins is a player tomorrow or in three years doesn't make a bit of difference. All that matters is that he produces and I like his odds.

You're trying to force yourself to find new ways to dislike this team.
If he's not a player tomorrow, then we don't win.

If he's not a player until 3 years from now, we don't win in the meantime because we gave up our best opportunity to improve.

And it's the FO I dislike, not the team. And I don't have to find ways to dislike them. Their piss-poor results and questionable decision-making are more than sufficient.

[Skooby]

Sammy is going to blow the doors off most teams at WR, you guys have no idea what you're talking about here. We have a beast that like to work & learn at WR, that'll show up with him being a class act as well. We're talking about a model citizen & Sunday performer, unbeatable combo man.

[YardRat]

You're oversimplifying and neglecting the very important reality of what we gave up to get the player. The consensus is that trading up in the first round rarely pays off and we gave up too much.

Where are you getting the supporting evidence to claim moving up a few spots in the first 'rarely' pays off?

[coastal]

Russ Brandon can **** off.

[OpIv37]

Where are you getting the supporting evidence to claim moving up a few spots in the first 'rarely' pays off?

Someone posted an article on here a few days ago that had all the numbers over many years and it showed trading down as far more likely to pay off than trading up.

[better days]

Someone posted an article on here a few days ago that had all the numbers over many years and it showed trading down as far more likely to pay off than trading up.

Trading down is a great way to fill a number of holes for a team with a LOT of holes.

The Bills are not that team anymore. This is a talented roster with FEW holes.

Trading up, could land the Bills a STAR that pushes them through to the playoffs.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm really getting bored with this argument.

They took a chance, it wasn't that smart but it sure was ballsy, and we'll see how it plays out.

I think we're all past the point of posturing over every decision the Bills make. It's probably going to be wrong, EJ is most likely not going to work out blah blah we've seen this movie. If we we got paid to be right about all the bad decisions the Bills made we'd all be millionaires.

I'll be honest, this time I'm just going to go with it. I can't do this anymore. I'm so excited to move back to Buffalo and get season tickets and do this whole thing.

[DraftBoy]

If he's not a player tomorrow, then we don't win.

If he's not a player until 3 years from now, we don't win in the meantime because we gave up our best opportunity to improve.

And it's the FO I dislike, not the team. And I don't have to find ways to dislike them. Their piss-poor results and questionable decision-making are more than sufficient.

None of that has anything to do with a smarter than you mentality, which is absolutely you trying to find a way to dislike them.

[OpIv37]

None of that has anything to do with a smarter than you mentality, which is absolutely you trying to find a way to dislike them.

I already explained the "smarter than you" decision making. They think they are a WR away from winning- no one else does. They think Watkins is going to improve the team more than who they would have drafted at 9 PLUS who they would have drafted in the 1st next year combined- no one else does.

[Skooby]

Where are you getting the supporting evidence to claim moving up a few spots in the first 'rarely' pays off?

He remembers how horrible getting Cornelius Bennett was for Buffalo.

[The Jokeman]

I think that viewpoint is short sighted. Watkins and this trade isn't evaluated just on what happens in 2015. I don't care if we go 0-16 next season and the Browns get the top pick. That's not the end of this deal nor how it will be evaluated long term.

I value Watkins far more than Johnson and Ebron, absolutely.

Fair enough now onto part 2, do you value Watkins more than Amari Cooper and/or Jaelen Strong and Ebron?

[DraftBoy]

I already explained the "smarter than you" decision making. They think they are a WR away from winning- no one else does. They think Watkins is going to improve the team more than who they would have drafted at 9 PLUS who they would have drafted in the 1st next year combined- no one else does.

No you didn't, you posted nothing that in any way declares a smarter than you mentality. You simply walked away from that point and went on to others.

[OpIv37]

No you didn't, you posted nothing that in any way declares a smarter than you mentality. You simply walked away from that point and went on to others.

I most certainly did. I gave you three ways in which their decision went against both historical evidence and current consensus. That's a "smarter than you" mentality. You can say I didn't all you want, but the reasons are there.

Oh wait, it worked one time for the Falcons so it's going to work for us now. Just like having Roscoe Parrish work because Steve Smith is the same size or Aaron Maybin will work because Dwight Freeney is undersized or EJ Manuel can start his first year cuz Cam Newton and Andrew Luck did it...

[Fletch]

They took a chance, it wasn't that smart but it sure was ballsy, and we'll see how it plays out.

That's right, now convince the supporters of the move to quit pretending that "ballsy" is smart. It was a stupid move. It's never ever before panned out in NFL history like Whaley claims it will. If he wins the lottery in that way or "gets struck by lightning," great. Either way, it doesn't suggest a GM that knows what he's doing.

This goes back to last season as well and Whaley's insistence that we pick Manuel in the 1st round. Between the two, and they're highly interconnected, his job should hang in the balance.

Do you agree that if the team does not meet his goal, of going to the playoffs with this move, or let's just say finishing with at least 9 wins, that he should get canned? If not, I don't know why not.

And even if they can him, what's the assurance that we'll get a decent GM instead of another ******ed one.

- - - Updated - - -


He remembers how horrible getting Cornelius Bennett was for Buffalo.

Good point! ... or McCargo. What a gem he was.

[Fletch]

.

[Fletch]

Where are you getting the supporting evidence to claim moving up a few spots in the first 'rarely' pays off?

There have been numerous articles over the years, citing evidence, that the odds of getting a better deal when moving up than down are worse, unless it's for a QB, which has far greater risks inherent in that anyway. Since so few QBs work out to what they're supposed to, that complicates any such analysis.

It really depends upon the team. If a team has made the playoffs perennially but just can't get over that top, then it might make sense to trade up to get that QB, or DE, or LB. But otherwise, if you're building, only a fool would suggest that giving up more picks to get a guy that you just "have to have" is smart.

Go back to last year, Whaley "had to have" Manuel and he has hardly made the impression that he was worth 16th overall much less a 1st-round pick.

I think that we're going to see that it'll be the same with Watkins.

What I want to know is what the Whaley supporters are going to say when Watkins doesn't have that kind of season. If they had any integrity they would join those that criticized the move.

[X-Era]

I already explained the "smarter than you" decision making. They think they are a WR away from winning- no one else does. They think Watkins is going to improve the team more than who they would have drafted at 9 PLUS who they would have drafted in the 1st next year combined- no one else does.I'm sorry man. I don't mean to challenge every notion but where did you get that they think they are a WR away?

I've heard "we think we're close". I don't see that as the same.

Beyond that I think they will live and die mostly on what EJ can do and they have also been clear that we wanted to give him every possible player to help him succeed.

Again, I just don't think they have been that emphatic. I don't think they claimed they are a WR away from the playoffs.

And again, I think Watkins was the best player in this draft. And I would have felt if we moved to #1 for him he was worthy of that pick. That's just me and I realize it may not be a universal opinion.

[X-Era]

I most certainly did. I gave you three ways in which their decision went against both historical evidence and current consensus. That's a "smarter than you" mentality. You can say I didn't all you want, but the reasons are there.

Oh wait, it worked one time for the Falcons so it's going to work for us now. Just like having Roscoe Parrish work because Steve Smith is the same size or Aaron Maybin will work because Dwight Freeney is undersized or EJ Manuel can start his first year cuz Cam Newton and Andrew Luck did it...Still missing where this consensus is. Who is a part of this consensus?

The media (of course) asked the question whether it was worth the move up but that's not the same as saying emphatically we paid too much.

[OpIv37]

I'm sorry man. I don't mean to challenge every notion but where did you get that they think they are a WR away?

I've heard "we think we're close". I don't see that as the same.

Beyond that I think they will live and die mostly on what EJ can do and they have also been clear that we wanted to give him every possible player to help him succeed.

Again, I just don't think they have been that emphatic. I don't think they claimed they are a WR away from the playoffs.

And again, I think Watkins was the best player in this draft. And I would have felt if we moved to #1 for him he was worthy of that pick. That's just me and I realize it may not be a universal opinion.
I agree with you on the EJ part. We should be set at WR and RB. Not so sure we gave him every tool on the OL.

As far as winning now, we were a 6-10 team last year. I just don't understand giving up current and future draft picks on a non-QB unless they think they can win now.

And Watkins may be the best player in the draft but I don't see anyone talking about that anymore. All the articles I see are about what we gave up to get him.

[trapezeus]

I already explained the "smarter than you" decision making. They think they are a WR away from winning- no one else does. They think Watkins is going to improve the team more than who they would have drafted at 9 PLUS who they would have drafted in the 1st next year combined- no one else does.
but their gamble is that manuel needs a top flight WR to be a top 15 QB. LAst year he was throwing to a streaky stevie. he didn't have immediate connections to any one receiver. perhaps if he has that with watkins, he will feel more at ease with woods and chambers.

it would have been a classic bills blunder if they did it for fitz, but for a young QB who you have high expectations on, it's not the worst gamble to make.

[BuffaloRedleg]

That's right, now convince the supporters of the move to quit pretending that "ballsy" is smart. It was a stupid move. It's never ever before panned out in NFL history like Whaley claims it will. If he wins the lottery in that way or "gets struck by lightning," great. Either way, it doesn't suggest a GM that knows what he's doing.

This goes back to last season as well and Whaley's insistence that we pick Manuel in the 1st round. Between the two, and they're highly interconnected, his job should hang in the balance.

Do you agree that if the team does not meet his goal, of going to the playoffs with this move, or let's just say finishing with at least 9 wins, that he should get canned? If not, I don't know why not.

And even if they can him, what's the assurance that we'll get a decent GM instead of another ******ed one.

- - - Updated - - -



Good point! ... or McCargo. What a gem he was.

I'm not going to try to convince anyone of anything. Punching Mike Tyson in the face is ballsy, but it isn't smart. I should hope that people understand the difference. To be honest there are only a few people around here who think it was a smart move, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill and overstating the good will towards the move.

Like I said, I'm just done getting worked up. It'll either work or it won't. My opinion doesn't make for much fun on an internet forum where everyone is itching for a fight, but there you have it. I'm not going to allow myself to be outraged anymore, or at least not until the next time we punt from inside the 45 yard line.

[trapezeus]

like i said, i am willing to back the move, but the real frustration is that if it doesn't work out, there will be no accountability to the people who are currently claiming responsibility like brandon. They'll always remain.

No other team let's the executive staff and FO make a big trade like that and survive if it fails. but brandon will be there.