Cody Hodgson

[coastal]

Is he a 1st or 2nd line center to put pieces around?

[swiper]

2nd line

[Ginger Vitis]

2nd line

[coastal]

Aren't u the slightest concerned about -28 rating.

[Ginger Vitis]

Aren't u the slightest concerned about -28 rating.

Yes it's a concern. By 2015-2016 Hodgson should be a 3rd line center or not on the team

[JATMtheJATM]

Aren't u the slightest concerned about -28 rating.

No. He was on a bad team. When the team rebounds, you'll see that numbed improve. Everyone had horrible +/- on the Sabres.

[Dr. Lecter]

Hodgson's ability on defense is horrible.

On a good team he is a 3rd or 4th line center. See the Kings for example. He might be better suited to stay on the wing where his defensives lapses are not so evident and damaging

[DetDannyWilliams]

Buffalo’s offseason personnel moves will determine where Hodgson plays next year. If they find themselves stacked on the wing, he’ll move back to the middle. If the center spot is strong, he’ll stay on the outside. It’s a solid bet the guy who was supposed to be a long-term solution at center will end up being a first- or second-line winger.
“I like it,” said Hodgson, who had spent most of his life in the middle. “Teddy asked me if I felt comfortable there, and I do. I do feel comfortable, especially with Zemgus. He’s got a lot of speed and opens up so much room.
“Wherever he wants to put me, I’ll play.”
The surprising move could benefit the team and player both offensively and defensively. Hodgson has a rocket for a slap shot, and he was able to use it more often while skating along the boards. His passing skills were highlighted, too, as Hodgson had time to spot teammates cutting toward the middle or the crease.
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/girgensons-shift-to-center-puts-hodgson-out-on-a-wing-20140426

[THATHURMANATOR]

Is he a 1st or 2nd line center to put pieces around?

He isn't even a center anymore. They moved him to wing......

[THATHURMANATOR]

The guy cannot play center. He is the worst defensive center I have ever seen. Couple that with his lazy slow skating and I say give up on the guy in the middle.

With that said he definitely has offensive skill and could be a solid winger.

[JATMtheJATM]

Hodgson's ability on defense is horrible.

On a good team he is a 3rd or 4th line center. See the Kings for example. He might be better suited to stay on the wing where his defensives lapses are not so evident and damaging

disagree completely. he has too much offensive upside to be a bottom 6 forward. plus, generally, your bottom 6 forwards are more geared toward defensive style hockey. bad at defense he may be, but thats also a part of the game that can be taught.

[Dr. Lecter]

disagree completely. he has too much offensive upside to be a bottom 6 forward. plus, generally, your bottom 6 forwards are more geared toward defensive style hockey. bad at defense he may be, but thats also a part of the game that can be taught.

When the Sabres were cup contendors their 3rd line was Roy, Afinigenov and Vanek.

[JATMtheJATM]

When the Sabres were cup contendors their 3rd line was Roy, Afinigenov and Vanek.

but we also saw how that buried them in the 2007 playoffs against the sens.

[swiper]

Buffalo’s offseason personnel moves will determine where Hodgson plays next year. If they find themselves stacked on the wing, he’ll move back to the middle. If the center spot is strong, he’ll stay on the outside. It’s a solid bet the guy who was supposed to be a long-term solution at center will end up being a first- or second-line winger.
“I like it,” said Hodgson, who had spent most of his life in the middle. “Teddy asked me if I felt comfortable there, and I do. I do feel comfortable, especially with Zemgus. He’s got a lot of speed and opens up so much room.
“Wherever he wants to put me, I’ll play.”
The surprising move could benefit the team and player both offensively and defensively. Hodgson has a rocket for a slap shot, and he was able to use it more often while skating along the boards. His passing skills were highlighted, too, as Hodgson had time to spot teammates cutting toward the middle or the crease.
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/girgensons-shift-to-center-puts-hodgson-out-on-a-wing-20140426

This with the -28 tells me he's on his way out. Unless he puts up crazy numbers, which he won't.

He was brought here because the Sabres were in need of a #1 and #2 center of the future. He's proven he can't do that. How nuts is it that he's telling everyone how good Girgeson is at doing what HE is supposed to be doing?

As soon as the Sabres nail down those first two line centers, Hodgson will be gone.

[swiper]

When the Sabres were cup contendors their 3rd line was Roy, Afinigenov and Vanek.

And that's as high a line as any of those three should have ever been allowed to play.

[JATMtheJATM]

And that's as high a line as any of those three should have ever been allowed to play.

with the exception of vanek.

[Dr. Lecter]

Absolutely. Vanek is an unquestioned top 6 forward

[JATMtheJATM]

afinogenov was an odd case. he had the speed. he had work ethic (say what you want, he appeared to work hard on the ice almost every shift)... his hands never caught up to his feet. he just never quite got it.

[OpIv37]

afinogenov was an odd case. he had the speed. he had work ethic (say what you want, he appeared to work hard on the ice almost every shift)... his hands never caught up to his feet. he just never quite got it.

It wasn't his hands- it was his head. He never quite understood that he can't deke his way through 3 NHL defenders like he could at the lower levels. If he could have learned when to put on the moves and when to get rid of the puck by passing or shooting, he would have been good.

[JATMtheJATM]

It wasn't his hands- it was his head. He never quite understood that he can't deke his way through 3 NHL defenders like he could at the lower levels. If he could have learned when to put on the moves and when to get rid of the puck by passing or shooting, he would have been good.

no doubt about that. all said, i do miss max. it seems that ever since he left, hes been almost completely forgotten. he was a popular player till the end. then he just disappeared.

but i still say his hands werent up to par with his feet as well. man, could he move.

[swiper]

Absolutely. Vanek is an unquestioned top 6 forward


LOL. He underachieved in Buffalo, Long Island, and Montreal. How much more proof do you need to see that he IS NOT a top 6 forward?

[JATMtheJATM]

Underachieving doesn't mean he's a bottom 6 forward.

[swiper]

no doubt about that. all said, i do miss max. it seems that ever since he left, hes been almost completely forgotten. he was a popular player till the end. then he just disappeared.

but i still say his hands werent up to par with his feet as well. man, could he move.

Blah. Popular? Not. All he had was speed. Nothing else. And for that I'd rather have Holzinger.

[Downinfloflo]

Vanek was a 4th liner for Montreal versus the Rangers and if the series would have went on he would have been a healthy scratch.

If you can't find your offensive game you sure as hell better be doing something on the defensive side Vanek did neither.

Playoff hockey is not for him.

[coastal]

And Cody Hodgson is less of a talent than Vanek.

[JATMtheJATM]

Well hodgson isn't a top line player. Vanek is regardless of a playoff slump.

[coastal]

Well hodgson isn't a top line player. Vanek is regardless of a playoff slump.
You think it was a slump and not a bigger sign of a huge weakness in his game?

[Dr. Lecter]

In 53 career playoff games, he has 20 goals and 10 assists. Not great numbers, but not horrible by any stretch.

[JATMtheJATM]

You think it was a slump and not a bigger sign of a huge weakness in his game?

Hard to say. Vanek has produced first line numbers much of his career. But he's hardly the first star to disappear in the playoffs some years. Datsyuk comes to mind, especially early in his career.

[coastal]

In 53 career playoff games, he has 20 goals and 10 assists. Not great numbers, but not horrible by any stretch.
Curious how much of that is on the power play?

[coastal]

Hard to say. Vanek has produced first line numbers much of his career. But he's hardly the first star to disappear in the playoffs some years. Datsyuk comes to mind, especially early in his career.
Did you really just compare Datsyuk to Vanek?

really?

[JATMtheJATM]

Their playoff struggles.

[coastal]

Their playoff struggles.
I get that I guess but I just can't stomach that comparison.

[JATMtheJATM]

Vanek is no datsyuk. But the point is vaneks playoff struggles doesn't mean he's not a first line player. And that other players that many consider elite suffer from a decline in production in the post season as well.

[OpIv37]

Vanek is no datsyuk. But the point is vaneks playoff struggles doesn't mean he's not a first line player. And that other players that many consider elite suffer from a decline in production in the post season as well.

Vanek is a first line player if and only if he's not the best guy on the line. If he has to be the top guy, he can't do it. See Buffalo Sabres 07-08 through the start of 13-14.

If Vanek is the top guy on a line, it has to be 2nd or 3rd.

[JATMtheJATM]

Vanek is a first line player if and only if he's not the best guy on the line. If he has to be the top guy, he can't do it. See Buffalo Sabres 07-08 through the start of 13-14.

If Vanek is the top guy on a line, it has to be 2nd or 3rd.

He doesn't have to be the best player on the ice. He's still not a third line player like swiper claims.

[swiper]

In 53 career playoff games, he has 20 goals and 10 assists. Not great numbers, but not horrible by any stretch.

He's supposed to be a 40+ goal scorer.

Jochen Hecht was a 20 G/ 20 A guy. So that is horrible. And he's NOT a top 6 forward.

[swiper]

He doesn't have to be the best player on the ice. He's still not a third line player like swiper claims.

Absolutely is. You're not watching. He was stealing money from the Sabres. Glad he's gone. He's showing his true colors.

[swiper]

Their playoff struggles.

Really? Really? And you call yourself a Sabres fan?

Montreal beat the Boston Bruins and made it to the Conference finals. What did your Buffalo Sabres do? I wouldn't say the Canadiens struggled in the play-offs.

[Dr. Lecter]

He's supposed to be a 40+ goal scorer.

Jochen Hecht was a 20 G/ 20 A guy. So that is horrible. And he's NOT a top 6 forward.

In 53 playoff games he was supposed to have 40 goals?

What are you saying? Hecht was not a 20/20 guy in 53 playoff games. Those are not horrible playoff numbers.

And yes - he is a top 6 forward. You don't like him. We get that.

[Dr. Lecter]

For active NHL players, Vanek is 12th on the goals per game list.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-players-all-time-goals-per-game-leaders.html

Saying he is not a top 6 forward is absurd.

[Dr. Lecter]

And 15th in active playoff goals per game. So he does not put up bad numbers in the playoffs

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-players-all-time-playoff-goals-per-game-leaders.html

[coastal]

Someone has a Vanek man-crush.

[Dr. Lecter]

Someone has a Vanek man-crush.

I am just trying to be facty here - nothing wrong with that.

Besides, I have a Myers man-crush. Try to keep up. I would never cheat on him

[JATMtheJATM]

Really? Really? And you call yourself a Sabres fan?

Montreal beat the Boston Bruins and made it to the Conference finals. What did your Buffalo Sabres do? I wouldn't say the Canadiens struggled in the play-offs.

what on earth are you talking about? i wasnt talking about the canadiens as a whole. but vanek.

jesus, keep up.

[JATMtheJATM]

Absolutely is. You're not watching. He was stealing money from the Sabres. Glad he's gone. He's showing his true colors.

if you think vanek is a third line player, id have to imagine you play too much NHL 14 on the xbox.

[Downinfloflo]

Vanek has the same mind set as Ovenchicken.

Both have a gift for scoring goals, But neither of them will give you that extra effort that it takes from your players to win a championship.

You won't see Vanek giving up his body to block a shot, You won't see him hustle his ass off on the back check.

You won't see him diving across the ice to knock the puck out of the zone.


HABS LEGEND LAFLEUR RIPS WINGERS PACIORETTY AND VANEK


"Guys like Vanek and Pacioretty, you can't keep that on your team," he told the Montreal newspaper. "They should remain at home if they're not willing to pay the price. Your team will never win with players like that who fade when there's adversity."

[coastal]

Vanek has the same mind set as Ovenchicken.

Both have a gift for scoring goals, But neither of them will give you that extra effort that it takes from your players to win a championship.

You won't see Vanek giving up his body to block a shot, You won't see him hustle his ass off on the back check.

You won't see him diving across the ice to knock the puck out of the zone.
To really win in this game you need to pay a price.

It hurts... and nothing is more rewarding.

but not eveyone that plays this game... even in the NHL... really care about winning.

[JATMtheJATM]

Flo flo is correct. The one thing I've noticed about vanek is he does have stretches of drive. But it isn't constant. And that's not acceptable

[trapezeus]

watching vanek as a non sabre, i saw that lazy side in him. it was obvious in montreal vs rangers series. he is always gassed and always reaching. if you put him with a playmaker, his willingness to get destroyed in front of the net is excellent. if you put him as the key guy to stop, people seem to stop him. over 82 games, he puts up points, but to me, he's a good piece to hvae on a team loaded with talent. he isn't the guy to carry the team.

for afinagenov, i feel like haglund is the new afinagenov. fast as help, never scores. even his goal last night was because it was an accident.

[swiper]

For active NHL players, Vanek is 12th on the goals per game list.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-players-all-time-goals-per-game-leaders.html

Saying he is not a top 6 forward is absurd.

Whatcha done for me lately Sally?

He was 40/40+ when Drury and Briere were the marquis guys. As soon as Vanek was asked to step up and do that, he couldn't.

- - - Updated - - -


To really win in this game you need to pay a price.

It hurts... and nothing is more rewarding.

but not eveyone that plays this game... even in the NHL... really care about winning.

See Rick Nash.

[swiper]

what on earth are you talking about? i wasnt talking about the canadiens as a whole. but vanek.

jesus, keep up.

Try and do a better job at being clear then. Because you weren't.

[swiper]

watching vanek as a non sabre, i saw that lazy side in him. it was obvious in montreal vs rangers series. he is always gassed and always reaching. if you put him with a playmaker, his willingness to get destroyed in front of the net is excellent. if you put him as the key guy to stop, people seem to stop him. over 82 games, he puts up points, but to me, he's a good piece to hvae on a team loaded with talent. he isn't the guy to carry the team.

for afinagenov, i feel like haglund is the new afinagenov. fast as help, never scores. even his goal last night was because it was an accident.

Haglund is getting a lot of praise all over NYC. I can't turn on the sports on TV or radio and not hear someone drooling over him. "Giradi this, Zuccarello that, Nash and then some, but Haglund is a mensch." Boomer Esiason is a huge Rangers fan and has a man-crush on Haglund.

[Downinfloflo]

watching vanek as a non sabre, i saw that lazy side in him. it was obvious in montreal vs rangers series. he is always gassed and always reaching. if you put him with a playmaker, his willingness to get destroyed in front of the net is excellent. if you put him as the key guy to stop, people seem to stop him. over 82 games, he puts up points, but to me, he's a good piece to hvae on a team loaded with talent. he isn't the guy to carry the team.

for afinagenov, i feel like haglund is the new afinagenov. fast as help, never scores. even his goal last night was because it was an accident.

**Hagelin**

Do your homework, you make a bunch of lazy comments with NO basis in reality.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20143ALLSASAll&sort=goals&viewName=summary

[JATMtheJATM]

Whatcha done for me lately Sally?

He was 40/40+ when Drury and Briere were the marquis guys. As soon as Vanek was asked to step up and do that, he couldn't.

- - - Updated - - -



See Rick Nash.

40\40 is the benchmark of a top 6 player? Since when?

[swiper]

40\40 is the benchmark of a top 6 player? Since when?

He was supposed to be the Sabres marquis player. Their Sidney Crosby. He sadly disappointed. He was a top-6 forward at one point, but not for awhile. He's proven so, now, with multiple supporting casts. He was never a good all-around player. He is what he is. He'll never get the kind of money that Regier was forced to give him to keep him again. We should have let Kevin Lowe have him.

[Dr. Lecter]

He was never supposed to be Sidney Crosby.

You can say that he has more talent than output. But he is still a top 6 guy

[JATMtheJATM]

If you believe vanek is not a top 6 forward, you should probably look at his statistics, because his numbers suggest he's not only a top 6 player, but in reality, a first line player on most teams. Be disappointed in his play as an all around player all you want. He's still a top 6 forward and on many teams, a top line player.

[Downinfloflo]

Vanek should have took the Islanders offer.

[JATMtheJATM]

Probably should have. But he will get 5 mil by someone. But wasn't buffalo prepared to offer him a major contract and he turned it down.

[Downinfloflo]

Probably should have. But he will get 5 mil by someone. But wasn't buffalo prepared to offer him a major contract and he turned it down.

That was before he "Vaneked" in the playoffs..

[JATMtheJATM]

That was before he "Vaneked" in the playoffs..

He's still gonna be a teams prize this summer

[swiper]

He's still gonna be a teams prize this summer

Again, see Rick Nash. Who was also somebody's prize. Vanek will be the same.

[JATMtheJATM]

Again, see Rick Nash. Who was also somebody's prize. Vanek will be the same.

Yet, that has zero to do with the claims he's not a top 6 forward.

[coastal]

Cody Hodgson's feelings are hurt by this thread.

[JATMtheJATM]

vanek had 10 points in 17 playoff games this season. while thats below his regular season PPG numbers, i wouldnt exactly call that disappearing. disappointing, sure. disappearing? not quite.

and a healthy 17.9% shooting percentage.

[The Jokeman]

Cody Hodgson's feelings are hurt by this thread.
Yeah I was expecting this thread to be about CoHo's play this spring on the wing and maybe we should move him there and it turns out this got Vanek hijacked.

[JATMtheJATM]

well, in fairness, silly statements like vanek is a third line player is going to garner some responses.

[OpIv37]

The point is that while Vanek has value, he's not a guy you can build a team around. He can't be the top guy on his line and certainly can't be the top guy on his team. He's not a leader and he's not clutch. If we're down by 1 with 3:00 to play and the other team screws up and gives up a breakaway, he's not the guy I want to be taking the shot.

The Buffalo Sabres of the past 5 years are what happens when a team tries to use Vanek as a top guy. Of course it wasn't entirely Vanek's fault, but the team asking him to be something that he's not is a big reason why they struggled.

[JATMtheJATM]

While largely true, he has come through in the clutch on occasion. The overtime goal against the caps comes to mind.

[Dr. Lecter]

The point is that while Vanek has value, he's not a guy you can build a team around. He can't be the top guy on his line and certainly can't be the top guy on his team. He's not a leader and he's not clutch. If we're down by 1 with 3:00 to play and the other team screws up and gives up a breakaway, he's not the guy I want to be taking the shot.

The Buffalo Sabres of the past 5 years are what happens when a team tries to use Vanek as a top guy. Of course it wasn't entirely Vanek's fault, but the team asking him to be something that he's not is a big reason why they struggled.

Actually Swiper's point was that Vanek is the equivalent of Jochen Hecht.

That is what we have been disputing.

[swiper]

vanek had 10 points in 17 playoff games this season. while thats below his regular season PPG numbers, i wouldnt exactly call that disappearing. disappointing, sure. disappearing? not quite.

and a healthy 17.9% shooting percentage.

Marion Gaborik is chuckling at you.

[swiper]

Actually Swiper's point was that Vanek is the equivalent of Jochen Hecht.

That is what we have been disputing.

20/20 is 20/20.

[Dr. Lecter]

For active NHL players, Vanek is 12th on the goals per game list.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-players-all-time-goals-per-game-leaders.html

Saying he is not a top 6 forward is absurd.

If he was 20/20 you would have a point.

Alas, he is not.

[OpIv37]

Actually Swiper's point was that Vanek is the equivalent of Jochen Hecht.

That is what we have been disputing.

Fair enough. Hecht is a guy that shouldn't be a top 6 forward that we tried to make into one. Vanek's not a top guy but he is a top six forward. There is a similarity in that the team tried to use both players in inappropriate ways, but talent-wise Vanek is definitely ahead of Hecht.

Also, Hecht was big but played like a pussy. Vanek does the dirty work in front of the net.

[JATMtheJATM]

Marion Gaborik is chuckling at you.
Yes, because everyone is having a playoff like gaborik.

- - - Updated - - -


Marion Gaborik is chuckling at you.
Yes, because everyone is having a playoff like gaborik.

[trapezeus]

vanek is a piece of the puzzle on a good balanced team. give him a play making center and a solid top d pairing, he'll go stand in front of the net and take the punishment. as a result, he's slow to come back into the defensive end. if you have a d pairing where it can be overlooked, then he's great.

the issue is he is paid like a top guy that makes it hard to pay for a top d pairing and centerman.

these playoffs he got sat a game or benched mid game vs the rangers. you can't have that out of a guy you want in your top 6.

as for Coho, what made him successful in the juniors etc? was he paired with talent? he seems invisible and discouraged. i get it that we have almost no talent through last year, but the fact he's being moved around and kind of in nolan's dog house makes it seem like the canucks evaluated him correctly. he is hard to coach.

[coastal]

vanek is a piece of the puzzle on a good balanced team. give him a play making center and a solid top d pairing, he'll go stand in front of the net and take the punishment. as a result, he's slow to come back into the defensive end. if you have a d pairing where it can be overlooked, then he's great.

the issue is he is paid like a top guy that makes it hard to pay for a top d pairing and centerman.

these playoffs he got sat a game or benched mid game vs the rangers. you can't have that out of a guy you want in your top 6.

as for Coho, what made him successful in the juniors etc? was he paired with talent? he seems invisible and discouraged. i get it that we have almost no talent through last year, but the fact he's being moved around and kind of in nolan's dog house makes it seem like the canucks evaluated him correctly. he is hard to coach.
Vanek would be a perfect line mate for Sam Reinhart.