"Super Group" could buy Bills and build stadium in Niagra

[Ed]

This is one of the better articles I've read regarding the sale of the Bills. It's a long article, but has a lot of good/interesting info. It also makes a future move to Toronto seem difficult and unlikely.

It focuses mainly on the Bon Jovi group buying the team, but keeping them in New York, which hasn't really been discussed as a possibility. The article make a lot of good points though about why that may be their only option if they want to be owners.

This one part from the article I found particularly interesting regarding the Jacobs family:

A Western New York source involved in the bid process said he still hears that the Jacobs family will not lead a bid for the Bills. Rather, it will sit back and be ready to potentially provide last-moment “over the top” money for a leading bid group that might require it — a group that would keep the team local, and a group the Jacobs family likes.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/krykslants/nfl/the-niagara-bills-super-group-partnering-bon-jovi-tanenbaum-jacobs-family-and-committed-to-new-stadium-in-niagara-falls-n-y-could-be-hard-to-beat-in-bi/

I recommend reading the whole article.

[Turf]

Isn't that right behind the casino?

[Skooby]

You mean a Toronto group buying the Bills & Building a new stadium in Niagara Falls keeping them in town, who could think of something like this ?

[don137]

I worry that is what they go in with their intent but in reality they will push expensive PSLs. When that happens it is realized Buffalo cannot support expensive PSLs thus giving them an out because they could not make a new stadium work thus moving the team to Toronto in 2020 or when lease expires.

[Homegrown]

I'd prefer the Super Friends

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yeah. What if? Pure speculation and a terrible idea to boot.

[swiper]

The highway infrastructure in Niagara County couldn't support the traffic.

[Skooby]

Yeah. What if? Pure speculation and a terrible idea to boot.

How's it a terrible idea ?? Having very wealthy people that make a huge investment to keep the Bills in the area is a bad idea ? What exactly would you like to happen ?

[Turf]

If this is where I think it is, lets imagine the screen shots from the blimp. The Stadium, ahh so nice. The Casino next door, the beautiful falls with the lights on it. What the hell are they going to do with the stretch of god forsaken chemical plants that line that stretch of road? Not to mention, how tf are you going to get there? Grand Island Bridge? Seriously? River Rd Tonawanda? Going to the casino in the afternoon the bridge is backed up forever. Not to mention about to fall over.
I don't see it working. Build it off the freaking Thruway for god sakes and add a lane. Its the only thing that makes sense.

[Fletch]

I recommend reading the whole article.

Read the whole thing.

To start, he says ...

We’ve established the unlikelihood of the NFL approving a Toronto bid group to buy the Buffalo Bills. At least a Toronto bid group intent on relocating the franchise to Toronto at first chance early next decade.

I don't know who that "we" is, but I don't recall having read anything like that.

If Bon Jovi and Tanenbaum stick to their original relocation guns and do not publicly, and convincingly, declare a long-term intention to keep the Bills in Western New York, then their bid is likely doomed.

A new owner wouldn't have to say anything, or could easily feign trying to keep the team in NY, then move it "because the region just can't sustain the team" anyway.

This guy talks as if the Toronto series is going thru 2017. Sounds as if it's already on the rocks if it won't have been killed after this season. It's struggled immensely as we all know.

I'm wondering what this guy is smoking since he implicitly equates the CFL with the NFL. Canada is a hockey country, but still, the NFL should draw much better than the CFL does simply given the increase in the talent level of its players if for no other reason.

Who knows, maybe the Cannucks would come to more games if it were in NF, but I wouldn't bet on it given the massive failure of the Toronto Series. If they can't make it to downtown Toronto, ...

He does make a good point on the hotels in NF.

One thing not mentioned is drunks, scalpers, etc. all loitering around Niagara Falls on game days on Sundays in the fall, some of the nicest times to go visit the Falls. I'm not sure that I share the feasibility of this all. IMO the Falls should be the Falls, not a sports venue. It's a special place, a natural wonder. I'd have no problem putting the stadium a mile or two from the Falls, but that's too close if you ask me. I'm sure I'm not alone. Forever there would be a huge stadium in the background skyline. Imagine a stadium in the Everglades or on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

Anyway, there's an awful lot of speculation in that piece and a lot of IF's. The biggest thing, which he even questions, is whether Canadians would really become that interested, which I'm skeptical of, there's no evidence of that.

I would add this, that if Canada is being seen as an international landing spot for the NFL, then Toronto's the city and the Bills are likely the team. Even if it's another, putting the Bills in NF would put a permanent end to having a team in Toronto. Either there wouldn't be the fanbase because the population base doesn't expand in the US, it shrinks given that the team moves away from the more remote areas of NYS, so unless they'd make that up with Canadians, it won't happen. If it did happen then they wouldn't then put a team in Toronto soon after that.

[Fletch]

I worry that is what they go in with their intent but in reality they will push expensive PSLs. When that happens it is realized Buffalo cannot support expensive PSLs thus giving them an out because they could not make a new stadium work thus moving the team to Toronto in 2020 or when lease expires.

Yeah, there are a lot of problems that spring up when thinking about this. I file it under "it looks good on paper, but ..."

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The highway infrastructure in Niagara County couldn't support the traffic.

Completely agree with that, it's all wedged up into the corner of the state. He doesn't really mention that, only the Canadian side.

[Fletch]

Build it off the freaking Thruway for god sakes and add a lane. Its the only thing that makes sense.

Agreed

[YardRat]

Have details regarding relocating the team if the Bon Jovi group buys it actually been revealed, or has it all been speculation because of the Tannenbaum connection?

[ParanoidAndroid]

How's it a terrible idea ?? Having very wealthy people that make a huge investment to keep the Bills in the area is a bad idea ? What exactly would you like to happen ?

Oh brother. Weak ass spin. That's not the problem with the idea. The problem is that he is just making s*** up and never reconciles the fact that Tannenbaum and Bon Jovi are interested in a Toronto franchise.

[Skooby]

Oh brother. Weak ass spin. That's not the problem with the idea. The problem is that he is just making s*** up and never reconciles the fact that Tannenbaum and Bon Jovi are interested in a Toronto franchise.

If they commit ~$800 Million to building a stadium in Niagara Falls, they're going nowhere for a very long time.

[Don't Panic]

This makes for a decent plan C, after downtownish and staying at Ralph. If both of those are off the table and moving out of the region is the last option, so be it. Traffic would be a bear for Buffalonians though. If they could connect the Amherst/Tonawanda border 290 with the Robert Moses then maybe, but until then, I can't see it working logistically.

[Skooby]

This BS about highways is actually sad, everywhere here if FL highways are being widened 24/7. You guys need to stop with the highway is too small BS because they can be widened, it's just a matter of timing. You want a wider highway, spend a year or two dealing with it and it's done, concurrently with all the improvements.

[trapezeus]

renaming it niagara bills? you might as well just rename the team. it makes no sense as niagara bills. it makes sense as the buffalo bills.

the rest of the article is interesting and gives you a little insight into how it is about the land and getting the stadium deal where they want it with their partners, etc.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't see how they could build in Niagara county.

The population isn't near what it is in Erie County.

How would they fund it?

[better days]

I read in the About John blurb that he VIDEOTAPES American Football.

Still using a VCR, 1980's technology in 2014.

I don't know if DVRS are available in Canada yet or if John is just to CHEAP to buy one.

That entire article is nothing more than wishful thinking on John's part.

[mightysimi]

I read in the About John blurb that he VIDEOTAPES American Football.

Still using a VCR, 1980's technology in 2014.

I don't know if DVRS are available in Canada yet or if John is just to CHEAP to buy one.

That entire article is nothing more than wishful thinking on John's part.

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

[better days]

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Yes of course I was being sarcastic.

I just found it funny that a newspaper used the term videotapes in regards to John recording football games.

It just goes to show the terrible, inaccurate writing in newspapers today.

[Fletch]

Have details regarding relocating the team if the Bon Jovi group buys it actually been revealed, or has it all been speculation because of the Tannenbaum connection?

Pretty much everything is speculation right now other than the fact that they're in the midst of a stadium feasibility study.

[Fletch]

This BS about highways is actually sad, everywhere here if FL highways are being widened 24/7. You guys need to stop with the highway is too small BS because they can be widened, it's just a matter of timing. You want a wider highway, spend a year or two dealing with it and it's done, concurrently with all the improvements.

Have you ever been to Niagara Falls?

[Novacane]

You mean a Toronto group buying the Bills & Building a new stadium in Niagara Falls keeping them in town, who could think of something like this ?


First thing I thought of when I read this story. Sorry for poking fun at you when you started that thread. It seemed absurd at the time.

[Novacane]

If this is where I think it is, lets imagine the screen shots from the blimp. The Stadium, ahh so nice. The Casino next door, the beautiful falls with the lights on it. What the hell are they going to do with the stretch of god forsaken chemical plants that line that stretch of road? Not to mention, how tf are you going to get there? Grand Island Bridge? Seriously? River Rd Tonawanda? Going to the casino in the afternoon the bridge is backed up forever. Not to mention about to fall over.
I don't see it working. Build it off the freaking Thruway for god sakes and add a lane. Its the only thing that makes sense.



They'd have to take the toll booths out for starters

[Meathead]

im not worried about the roads on the ground, they can expand those. the grand island bridges are indeed a problem but they could possibly use both bridges in one direction on an announced schedule, like northbound only five hours before kickoff and southbound for five hours afterward. it would still be a big hassle for those in the traffic but it would help. i doubt they could come up with the money to expand or build new bridges there

the canadian bridges will also be a problem but local ppl are used to adapting to that. plus they could do something similar with loading the traffic directions based on time relative to kickoff

[Meathead]

They'd have to take the toll booths out for starters

as much as i would love that, its not really the booths that are the bottleneck there, its the flow over the bridges that slows everything down. in heavy stadium traffic the booths make no difference

[better days]

as much as i would love that, its not really the booths that are the bottleneck there, its the flow over the bridges that slows everything down. in heavy stadium traffic the booths make no difference

Well, if they want to put a Stadium in the Falls, they should build an 8 lane tunnel.

[Mace]

Niagara Falls Reporter article on why Niagara Falls just won't cut it as a stadium site :

http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2014/MAY06/ten.html

Reason number one "Traffic" pretty much puts it right away. Good night sweet prince. Turn out the lights, idea is over. Lot of offseason left though so it will keep floating back to the surface.

Reason number one is very worth reading.

[SpikedLemonade]

Excellent article.

[swiper]

This BS about highways is actually sad, everywhere here if FL highways are being widened 24/7. You guys need to stop with the highway is too small BS because they can be widened, it's just a matter of timing. You want a wider highway, spend a year or two dealing with it and it's done, concurrently with all the improvements.

Groan. Florida roads and WNY roads are 180 degrees different. You CAN'T widen roads that have houses & business right up on them. The comment you made sounds like you've never even been to WNY.

[Turf]

I thought Niagra was a spray starch?

[Mace]

I thought Niagra was a spray starch?

Presciption for erectile dysfunction.

[Skooby]

Groan. Florida roads and WNY roads are 180 degrees different. You CAN'T widen roads that have houses & business right up on them. The comment you made sounds like you've never even been to WNY.

There's houses right on the interstates ?? Wow, things must have changed.

[Mace]

There's houses right on the interstates ?? Wow, things must have changed.

You don't live in NY State do you Baldwin, er Murraydowntown ? There's a tax break.

[Skooby]

You don't live in NY State do you Baldwin, er Murraydowntown ? There's a tax break.

So there's no way to widen the roads anywhere the stadium might be built ?? It's silly talk. You guys need to give up the infrastructure can't be improved arguments, do fly overs if needed.

[Mace]

So there's no way to widen the roads anywhere the stadium might be built ?? It's silly talk. You guys need to give up the infrastructure can't be improved arguments, do fly overs if needed.

No, I was talking about living on the interstates. You get a tax break for making a house on one. You want a solidly built dwelling though.

Infrastructure can be improved, just not there in Niagara Falls, that article I posted has a pic, you can see it. It can't accommodate 80k, isn't big enough. Niagara County has close to 25% Erie's tax base.

Honestly with NY state programs and projects, allocated money and such, they'd have a more reasonable shot redesigning around Buffalo all at once, in the wastelands south of the city. They mean to redesign it and the roads anyway.

But Niagara Falls operates in a minimal restricted area bordered by rivers and small average use bridges with minimal land mass where the target area is.

[Turf]

No one seems to want to address the chemical contamination in that area of Niagara Falls. Its unsightly, and if you bulldoze it down, it will make love canal look like love cake. That area doesn't have a prayer for a number of reasons.

[swiper]

There's houses right on the interstates ?? Wow, things must have changed.

Outside of 190 there is no interstate through Niagara County. And that road cannot be widened and cannot handle stadium traffic. There are no roads to handle the stadium traffic in Niagara County. Nothing has changed. Nothing ever does.

[Fletch]

So there's no way to widen the roads anywhere the stadium might be built ?? It's silly talk. You guys need to give up the infrastructure can't be improved arguments, do fly overs if needed.

If you're ever in WNY for the first time, take a quick drive around Niagara Falls on the U.S. side, (or the Canadian side for that matter), and perhaps your inane posts on this topic will cease. Seriously, a 12-year old could piece this together having driven through and around the area once.

I can't believe that this site is even remotely seriously being considered. Not to mention that this is NYS's greatest tourist attraction, who wants a monstrosity of a stadium in view of every camera shot. I love the Bills but there have to be some limits. What's next, fast food restaurants right up on the viewing rails to the Falls.

[Fletch]

Niagara Falls Reporter article on why Niagara Falls just won't cut it as a stadium site :

http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2014/MAY06/ten.html

Reason number one "Traffic" pretty much puts it right away. Good night sweet prince. Turn out the lights, idea is over. Lot of offseason left though so it will keep floating back to the surface.

Reason number one is very worth reading.

An excellent article that's laden with common sense.

Some key excerpts:

Anyone who ever came towards Niagara Falls during a big Art Park concert, or to the falls on the 4th of July, knows these three words: "Long traffic delays." When the Grand Island Bridge is backed up, the wait can be measured in hours.

Downtown Niagara Falls is in a corner -- surrounded on two sides by the Niagara River. On the other side of the river is Canada. This boxed in area will not accommodate 80,000 people - the number of attendees for a Bills game - coming at once. It wouldn't even accommodate half that number.

Frank D'Agostino, the largest scenic bus tour operator in Niagara Falls, estimates that no more than 30,000 people visit Niagara Falls on July 4th, Memorial Day or Labor Day - the three busiest days of the year. These 30,000 don't come at once, but come and go over a 16-hour period. Even so, gridlock can last hours. So what would happen if 80,000 people came at the same time? (Keep in mind that tourists would also still be there on game days)


"By the time you get out of the parking lot, you might just as well turn around, because next week's game will be starting," said Niagara Gazette Columnist Ken Hamilton, when discussing the impossibility of accommodating NFL football traffic in downtown Niagara Falls.

The current corporate welfare mentality of the sharpies who own NFL teams is to take from the people - or threaten to move the team. Team after team has bled taxpayers so that fans can have their candy on Sundays. (Too bad every city was not civilized enough to refuse the corporate welfare schemes and NFL owners could not extort them).) But, since the nation is not civilized, politicians have succumbed to this extortion scheme, since losing a team is a badge of dishonor and something fans will vote against (being oblivious or unconcerned that others must work longer hours to pay taxes to support someone else's sport), and despite studies suggesting that owning a team is a net economic loss for a city if it has to subsidize it. (A very accurate and good sidenote, particularly in light of the fact that these same people don't realize that this nonsense about a team giving more than it takes from taxpayers is an enormous lie.)


... Cuomo , only has to keep the Bills somewhere in New York State to win the right to say 'I kept the Bills for my constituents" when and if he seeks higher office. (Great point)

There are few smaller or less glamorous markets than Buffalo, except perhaps the inaccessible (by traffic) Niagara Falls.

Of course, the rebuttal is that NFR could develop all kinds of spinoff developments: a convention center, stores, hotels, and other attractions, things they were supposed to build more than a decade ago. But is the demand there? By adding 10 football events per year will that suddenly make it happen? If it was true, then Orchard Park would have seen spinoff next to Rich (now Ralph Wilson) Stadium. When the state gifted the convention center to the Seneca Indians to build the casino in 2003, there was also spinoff promised but it hasn't happened. (Again, great points that the "Waterfront" and "Downtown" advocates should understand.)

At the end of the day, people might not expect that these 10 points are sufficient reasons for Niagara Falls not to get the Buffalo Bills. Maybe some of them are unimportant. I won't argue about that. But look at the number of them. And what have we got on the other side? All we've got is that maybe you and I love the Buffalo Bills. (Man, this guy's nailed it!)

If all those reasons don't mean anything to you, then forget it and we'll make it just this: It won't happen because there aren't the roads to accommodate the team and any traffic study will prove that in 10 minutes. (Again, simple common sense to anyone that's even driven through town once.)

[trapezeus]

never underestimate monied interests. it can always over come common sense.

[Fletch]

never underestimate monied interests. it can always over come common sense.

It ain't gonna overcome it in Niagara Falls. If it does, then you're going to see people losing interest in going to games because simply getting there, parking, leaving after the game will be a 15-hour experience.

[sukie]

If you're ever in WNY for the first time, take a quick drive around Niagara Falls on the U.S. side, (or the Canadian side for that matter), and perhaps your inane posts on this topic will cease. Seriously, a 12-year old could piece this together having driven through and around the area once.

I can't believe that this site is even remotely seriously being considered. Not to mention that this is NYS's greatest tourist attraction, who wants a monstrosity of a stadium in view of every camera shot. I love the Bills but there have to be some limits. What's next, fast food restaurants right up on the viewing rails to the Falls.

What are they taking pictures of on the US side that would include the stadium?

[Fletch]

What are they taking pictures of on the US side that would include the stadium?

Who is?

Have you read that article? It doesn't seem so.

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What are they taking pictures of on the US side that would include the stadium?

BTW, great argument. Niagara Falls here we come.

LOL

[Bill Cody]

It ain't gonna overcome it in Niagara Falls. If it does, then you're going to see people losing interest in going to games because simply getting there, parking, leaving after the game will be a 15-hour experience.

yep

[trapezeus]

fair enough, fletch. but i think what is interesting is that a lot of the plots of land being discussed are plots entirely owned by one owner or small group. so the negotiation should be smooth. i think with the jacobs being a big land owner, golisano having his ideal location, and pegula with an interest in down town, the sites being discussed are clear.

i also think if you have more traffic, you might just have people come out on saturday night, you charge an extra fee for campers, etc. and then you see a slow exit after the game....but i don't know the traffic of that area. only the little i read.

[sukie]

Who is?

Have you read that article? It doesn't seem so.

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BTW, great argument. Niagara Falls here we come.

LOL

What i was saying is no one visits Niagara Falls on the US side for very long... They drive and see the shut down building shaped like a turtle... See what used to be a mall. A shiny casino with hotel tower in what used to be a convention center... Anything built there would eb an improvement and add to the skyline for the visitors in Canada snapping pictures... If you are on the US side... a few shots of the rapids, and all your other pics have Canada as a backdrop. Of course there are some great photo ops of homeless guy puking on Niagara street and some great photos to use as decorating tips from one of the 150 bar(slash) Italian resteraunts on Pine ave.

[OLDSRIP]

never underestimate monied interests. it can always over come common sense.

But this would be a major failure.
Having been to the Falls many times. I can safely say driving there is a pia in the best of times.