More sloppy QB play.....

[swiper]

Paul Hamilton


<article>
Orchard Park, NY (WGR 550) -- There were two injuries during Monday’s OTA’s

WR Marquise Goodwin got tangled up with Duke Williams running a fly pattern and stayed down grabbing his knee. He went back in and caught one kickoff before heading to the room.

DE Bryan Johnson left on a cart also holding his knee. The team was already thin on the defensive line because Marcell Dareus, Kyle Williams and Alan Branch weren’t there. Mario Williams hardly participated.

Marcus Easley was doing some running with the trainers, while another wide receiver, Cordell Roberson just watched. Mike Williams, Anthony Dixon and Doug Legursky were also missing. Tony Moeaki was there, but riding the bike.

EJ Manuel threw some perfect balls, but overall he had a tough day. He was picked off short over the middle by Preston Brown. He was also intercepted by Michael Carter. Ty Powell also recorded a pick.

The thing that struck me with all four quarterbacks was when they started practice throwing long passes to uncovered receivers, there were an alarming amount of overthrows. Manuel overthrew Goodwin twice which isn’t easy to do.

</article>
The inconsistency crept in again. An example would be during 11-on-11, Manuel threw a perfect strike to Robert Woods during on an out pattern to the sideline. On the next play, he missed Sammy Watkins on a simple run 10 yards and stop route. I told you about the Brown Interception. On the next play, a nice tight completion to Chris Hogan on an out.

http://www.wgr550.com/Bills-Goodwin-hurt-and-leaves-early/19182150

[TacklingDummy]

Great.

What QB they drafting with their top 2 pick next year?

[Oldbillsfan]

They traded it...

[trapezeus]

i really hope these running backs and increase in line size and talent makes a difference. i feel like ej plays better with confidence (obviously everyone does). If he has a churning run game and only has to make 15-25 passes a game, i think he can be stable and show growth.

if they are going to stay pass first and be uptempo asking ej to set the tempo, i like it less.

my point about his consitency is that when he's rattled it looks like he's pushing the ball and not throwing. and those throws (on the entire passing tree) can be very erratic. but in the games where he seems like he's comfortable, he makes a lot of the throws.

how do you get him to have a high level of confidence for 16 weeks consistently? to me, it's the run game.

[Jan Reimers]

We're all worried about EJ, myself included, but he's a 2nd year QB in June OTA's. He was injured and missed a lot of time last year, and has a number of young receivers.

I'm not making excuses for him, and maybe he won't develop into our franchise QB, but I'll give him a little more time to mesh with his receivers and O-line before becoming too concerned.

[BuffaloWingEater]

inconsistency in throws is due to more mechanics. mechanics has never been a strong suit for ej and it appears that as of right now they are not fixed. :(

[k-oneputt]

This shouldn't surprise anyone.

He has been doing this since he started at FSU.

[don137]

I feel this is a very solid football team. If the Bills had an all pro at QB this team would be a top 5 team.

EJ gets me real nervous. I am glad the Bills have an extra preseason game. I hope he plays more than the average QB in preseason. He needs the work. Staying healthy and his play are the two hurdles of becoming a playoff team.

[Fletch]

He was picked off short over the middle by Preston Brown. He was also intercepted by Michael Carter. Ty Powell also recorded a pick.

Cue the chiming in of fans telling us how great Carter and Powell are going to be.


he missed Sammy Watkins on a simple run 10 yards and stop route.

I have a hunch we're going to be hearing that a lot this season.

[Fletch]

This shouldn't surprise anyone.

He has been doing this since he started at FSU.

Exactly, and that cannot possibly be stressed enough. Throughout all four seasons there.

[Fletch]

I feel this is a very solid football team. If the Bills had an all pro at QB this team would be a top 5 team.

You could pretty much say that about any team, it's a very self-fulfilling statement. QBs make all-pro because their teams are good.

Having said that, and while it seems to be the going opinion here, I don't see why everyone assumes that. Jackson's on the outs leaving Spiller. Talk about Bryce Brown all you want, but he's done nothing yet, collegiate or pro. I think the chances of him "blossoming" here in Buffalo are remote.

Of the WRs on this team, not too far off that mark there either. Watkins has much to prove before we annoint him a perennial thousand-yarder. Goodwin is a backup. Woods hasn't even proven that he can carry the team as its first WR, which he'll be called upon to do this season as the veteran leader and only starting WR coming back. Williams is Williams, hardly all that.

The OL isn't without its issues either, and defensively, while seemingly sound up front, our D still hasn't proven that it can stop the run with this group of talent, Dareus is one minor "I can't handle this anymore" moment away from being history, we have one-and-a-half solid LBs, and our secondary is questionable at best.

There are going to be a lot of disappointed fans that think we're just a QB away this season.

[Fletch]

Great.

What QB they drafting with their top 2 pick next year?

At least we can dream about which QB we would have taken. They should have grabbed Boyd late or Murray or McCarron before taking Richardson in the 5th. At least we'd have some real hope.

One Bills Drive: Home of Dream Weavers

[better days]

At least we can dream about which QB we would have taken. They should have grabbed Boyd late or Murray or McCarron before taking Richardson in the 5th. At least we'd have some real hope.

One Bills Drive: Home of Dream Weavers

Boyd, Murray & McCarron, three future franchise QB's right there.

Talk about Dream Weavers.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You could pretty much say that about any team, it's a very self-fulfilling statement. QBs make all-pro because their teams are good.

Having said that, and while it seems to be the going opinion here, I don't see why everyone assumes that. Jackson's on the outs leaving Spiller. Talk about Bryce Brown all you want, but he's done nothing yet, collegiate or pro. I think the chances of him "blossoming" here in Buffalo are remote.

Of the WRs on this team, not too far off that mark there either. Watkins has much to prove before we annoint him a perennial thousand-yarder. Goodwin is a backup. Woods hasn't even proven that he can carry the team as its first WR, which he'll be called upon to do this season as the veteran leader and only starting WR coming back. Williams is Williams, hardly all that.

The OL isn't without its issues either, and defensively, while seemingly sound up front, our D still hasn't proven that it can stop the run with this group of talent, Dareus is one minor "I can't handle this anymore" moment away from being history, we have one-and-a-half solid LBs, and our secondary is questionable at best.

There are going to be a lot of disappointed fans that think we're just a QB away this season.

Top 5 is a huge stretch, but I can see this team on par with the muddle of other wild card contenders in the AFC. It's a top-heavy conference - Denver, New England, and Cincy are the clear top 3. Kansas City and Indy are pretty good, but they each rely so heavily on one elite player to have any semblance of offense. If Charles or Luck go down (and the latter gets the piss beaten out of him on the regular), then they immediately crash to earth quite hard.

After that is the chaotic muddle with Pitt, Baltimore, New York, Miami, and San Diego, and outside of QB I can see us on par with any of them player for player. If we can get Manuel to reliably convert 3rd downs and turn some punts into field goals then we will be in the WC mix IMO.

[jills]

Don't worry guys, we can use our next year's 1st rounder to pick a QB... oh wait...

[gr8slayer]

Not doing great in OTA's? Season's over, just hang them up now.

[mightysimi]

Don't worry guys, we can use our next year's 1st rounder to pick a QB... oh wait...

over/under on how many times we hear that comment in the next year is set at 1000. I'm picking the over.

[jills]

over/under on how many times we hear that comment in the next year is set at 1000. I'm picking the over.

If that's the case you better get used to it.

[Skooby]

I still think we find another vet back-up.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yes lets waste my life telling people "I TOLD YOU SO"

Whatever EJ SUCKS WHO CARES!!!

[Skooby]

Yes lets waste my life telling people "I TOLD YOU SO"

Whatever EJ SUCKS WHO CARES!!!

It's not a matter of sucking, it's a matter of him being able to stay healthy & potentially improve. The OTA's are designed to try out new stuff & playing with switching positions. Now if EJ looks like crap during camp & pre-season, I'd start getting concerned.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Look at all the haters coming out of the woodwork.

Rob Johnson always looked like the second coming of Joe Montana in camp.

[TacklingDummy]

They traded it...

Who's stupid idea was that?

[TacklingDummy]

over/under on how many times we hear that comment in the next year is set at 1000. I'm picking the over.Not just a year but 3 years. If the Bills do have a top 2 pick next year and the top 2 QBs become franchise QB's. Then you will here it forever.

[Fletch]

Top 5 is a huge stretch, but I can see this team on par with the muddle of other wild card contenders in the AFC. It's a top-heavy conference - Denver, New England, and Cincy are the clear top 3. Kansas City and Indy are pretty good, but they each rely so heavily on one elite player to have any semblance of offense. If Charles or Luck go down (and the latter gets the piss beaten out of him on the regular), then they immediately crash to earth quite hard.

After that is the chaotic muddle with Pitt, Baltimore, New York, Miami, and San Diego, and outside of QB I can see us on par with any of them player for player. If we can get Manuel to reliably convert 3rd downs and turn some punts into field goals then we will be in the WC mix IMO.

I don't think that top-5 is a stretch at all. Do you know what All-Pro means? QBs don't get all-pro votes if their teams are merely contending.

Only two All-Pro QBs are selected, one's 2nd team. Last season Manning won outright and there was no 2nd team QB because he got all the votes.

Neither Dalton nor Luck have been all-pro. Both have made the pro bowl, but neither has come close to being all pro. That status is reserved for the very best.

Perhaps don137 should have chosen a different status.

As to this season's success, here are the things that need to unfold for us to be better than the 6-10 that we were last season.

QB: Manuel needs to improve in multiple facets of his game, the biggest of which being consistency. If he has another season with the spread in his ratings that he had last season he can hang up a future NFL career. No QB with such inconsistency will go anywhere as a starter in today's NFL.

RB: Jackson cannot be counted on this season and I doubt that he even comes back after this season. Spiller has only proven that he cannot replace Jackson and be a 3-down RB. That leaves Brown. What has Brown done, in college or pro, to give us hope that he'll be the team's 3-down RB into the future? The answer is nothing.

WR: Chemistry needs to develop at an alarming rate if this group is going to be above average this season. It may be above average next season or afterwards, although I have my doubts on Williams being able to keep his nose clean and his head on straight, but Woods and Watkins nonetheless, but they've both proven nothing in the NFL and have miles to go to even sniff such a status. Goodwin is purely a role-playing depth receiver. Either way, a tremendously young group, perhaps the youngest in the NFL, and clearly lacking experience.

OL: Definitely some issues but at least not glaring ones.

DL: Dareus status? That's for this season, next season I'm not even sure he's here. Mario is a one-trick-pony DE and if all you count is sack stats, then you're happy based on last season's performance. The entire team's image was bolstered by gawdy sack stats predicated upon an overemphasis on logging sacks that didn't yield much difference generally speaking and did not help the team beat one single team ranked above average in passing.

LB: Spikes isn't a 3-down MLB despite the notion that unlike in NE he'll be on the field for all 3 downs here. Kiko's a beast. Whoever starts at the third spot will be average at best.

DB: Gilmore is the only consistent CB we have. McKelvin has had his ups and downs, mostly downs, at CB. Graham is an average CB. It is unclear how much of Aaron Williams' "improvement" was a result of the system last season as well as of having Byrd next to him at S. The only proven CB is Gilmore and the rest of the secondary has at least some if not many questionmarks associated with it.

Coaching: Marrone had more than his share of issues last season. Handcuffing his career to Manuel was unwise. Hackett was in well over his head. Schwartz can go either way but did less with more defensively in Detroit. Downing was fired in Detroit because Stafford was regressing. Now he takes on Manuel.

Add all that up and it's lots of uncertainty, not lots of experience, chemistry, and firm building blocks, especially on O.

[Fletch]

Look at all the haters coming out of the woodwork.

Criticism = Hatred

Signed George Orwell

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I don't think that top-5 is a stretch at all. Do you know what All-Pro means? QBs don't get all-pro votes if their teams are merely contending.

Only two All-Pro QBs are selected, one's 2nd team. Last season Manning won outright and there was no 2nd team QB because he got all the votes.

Neither Dalton nor Luck have been all-pro. Both have made the pro bowl, but neither has come close to being all pro. That status is reserved for the very best.

Perhaps don137 should have chosen a different status.

Yes, I know what All-Pro means, but you misinterpreted my post. A team can be top 5 without an All-Pro QB (Seattle, San Francisco) and a QB can be an All-Pro without his team being a contender (2008 Drew Brees). What I'm saying is that this roster is wild card capable even if Manuel doesn't become an elite QB. What we'd need is for him to be a consistent QB who doesn't turn the ball over, and then we are right in the muddled middle of the AFC trying to snag a WC slot.


RB: Jackson cannot be counted on this season and I doubt that he even comes back after this season. Spiller has only proven that he cannot replace Jackson and be a 3-down RB. That leaves Brown. What has Brown done, in college or pro, to give us hope that he'll be the team's 3-down RB into the future? The answer is nothing.

WR: Chemistry needs to develop at an alarming rate if this group is going to be above average this season. It may be above average next season or afterwards, although I have my doubts on Williams being able to keep his nose clean and his head on straight, but Woods and Watkins nonetheless, but they've both proven nothing in the NFL and have miles to go to even sniff such a status. Goodwin is purely a role-playing depth receiver. Either way, a tremendously young group, perhaps the youngest in the NFL, and clearly lacking experience.

OL: Definitely some issues but at least not glaring ones.

DL: Dareus status? That's for this season, next season I'm not even sure he's here. Mario is a one-trick-pony DE and if all you count is sack stats, then you're happy based on last season's performance. The entire team's image was bolstered by gawdy sack stats predicated upon an overemphasis on logging sacks that didn't yield much difference generally speaking and did not help the team beat one single team ranked above average in passing.

LB: Spikes isn't a 3-down MLB despite the notion that unlike in NE he'll be on the field for all 3 downs here. Kiko's a beast. Whoever starts at the third spot will be average at best.

DB: Gilmore is the only consistent CB we have. McKelvin has had his ups and downs, mostly downs, at CB. Graham is an average CB. It is unclear how much of Aaron Williams' "improvement" was a result of the system last season as well as of having Byrd next to him at S. The only proven CB is Gilmore and the rest of the secondary has at least some if not many questionmarks associated with it.

Coaching: Marrone had more than his share of issues last season. Handcuffing his career to Manuel was unwise. Hackett was in well over his head. Schwartz can go either way but did less with more defensively in Detroit. Downing was fired in Detroit because Stafford was regressing. Now he takes on Manuel.

Add all that up and it's lots of uncertainty, not lots of experience, chemistry, and firm building blocks, especially on O.

You can do this breakdown for nearly every wildcard team last year. Aside from QB, where I already stated Manuel needs to improve, what makes this roster so much worse than the 2013 Chargers?

[WagonCircler]

inconsistency in throws is due to more mechanics. mechanics has never been a strong suit for ej and it appears that as of right now they are not fixed. :(

It's not just mechanics! Perfect mechanics, while almost imperative, cannot fix naturally poor hand-eye coordination or accuracy or muscle memory.

EJs problems are clearly a mix of all of these.

NFL starting QBs should have long ago mastered mechanics to the point that they are second nature.

This is who EJ is.

And he SUCKS.

[kishoph]

Can someone tell me what the score was ? Oh wait, there was no score, it was Organized Team Activities.

[stuckincincy]

I feel this is a very solid football team. If the Bills had an all pro at QB this team would be a top 5 team.

EJ gets me real nervous. I am glad the Bills have an extra preseason game. I hope he plays more than the average QB in preseason. He needs the work. Staying healthy and his play are the two hurdles of becoming a playoff team.

Good observation - the extra game should help.

[sudzy]

Don't worry guys, we can use our next year's 1st rounder to pick a QB... oh wait...

Watch, the next Aaron Rodgers drop right past the Bills pick, just like the JP trade.

[bleve]

And it continues....


In a routes-versus-air drill, three of Manuel's throws directed towards Watkins in the end zone were off-target. Watkins got his hands on each but couldn't haul them in.

Later in the practice, back indoors, Manuel hit Watkins with a well-thrown pass but Watkins couldn't get ahold of the ball. Manuel also had multiple passes on fade patterns sail over receivers in the end zone, a trend during the three weeks of OTAs.

The Bills wrapped up practice with a full-team red zone drill. Manuel's first pass was an incomplete fade pattern, while his second pass was overthrown. Following a hand-off to Anthony Dixon (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13212/anthony-dixon?ex_cid=null) that went for a touchdown, Manuel's next pass was thrown away, while his final pass was intended for Dixon on a dump-off but was off the mark.

From ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/10361/bills-wrap-up-otas-with-wet-practice)

[jills]

And it continues....



From ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/10361/bills-wrap-up-otas-with-wet-practice)

http://replygif.net/i/635.gif

[Skooby]

These are friendly plays as well, it gets harder when the opponents hate you & want to injure everybody.

[streetkings01]

As a FSU fan........I'm not surprised. Jimbo was more comfortable with Ponder then he was with EJ so what does that tell you!

[BuffaloRedleg]

You could pretty much say that about any team, it's a very self-fulfilling statement. QBs make all-pro because their teams are good.

Having said that, and while it seems to be the going opinion here, I don't see why everyone assumes that. Jackson's on the outs leaving Spiller. Talk about Bryce Brown all you want, but he's done nothing yet, collegiate or pro. I think the chances of him "blossoming" here in Buffalo are remote.

Of the WRs on this team, not too far off that mark there either. Watkins has much to prove before we annoint him a perennial thousand-yarder. Goodwin is a backup. Woods hasn't even proven that he can carry the team as its first WR, which he'll be called upon to do this season as the veteran leader and only starting WR coming back. Williams is Williams, hardly all that.

The OL isn't without its issues either, and defensively, while seemingly sound up front, our D still hasn't proven that it can stop the run with this group of talent, Dareus is one minor "I can't handle this anymore" moment away from being history, we have one-and-a-half solid LBs, and our secondary is questionable at best.

There are going to be a lot of disappointed fans that think we're just a QB away this season.

I agree with most of what you are saying but not this. You are always a great QB away from contention. Not to state the obvious, but with Aaron Rodgers etc we are a Superbowl contending team.

(edit: I see I'm late with this response)

[Fletch]

I agree with most of what you are saying but not this. You are always a great QB away from contention. Not to state the obvious, but with Aaron Rodgers etc we are a Superbowl contending team.

(edit: I see I'm late with this response)

We'll have to disagree on that depending upon what how one defines "contention." When I say it, I mean a team that is capable of winning the Super Bowl. Barring a top-notch QB like Brady or Manning, and even then since both of their teams are better than ours otherwise and neither has sniffed a SB recently, I still think we're a bunch away.

I think we're going to see how the youth of this corps of receivers will be holding us back. I've been lectured to about how Mike Williams is some kind of impact starting WR, but today's reports suggest what I said early on, that he's not even a shoe-in to make the team. Also, reports about Watkins with butter-fingers. We have too many holes. People aren't seeing it now because they can't get off the paper, but once it goes to the field it'll become evident.

[better days]

Not just a year but 3 years. If the Bills do have a top 2 pick next year and the top 2 QBs become franchise QB's. Then you will here it forever.

You think Whaley doesn't know that?

He shoved his last cent to the middle of the table & then took off his Gold Rolex & threw that on the pile as well.