Could Tuel Step Forward & Be Manuels' Backup ?

[Night Train]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/QB-Tuel-takes-game-up-a-notch/3ca4f5e3-d80e-4f24-98c4-e492ab96b886?

He has an upside. Had an entire off-season to improve and would like to see him as next man in.

Lewis does not have an upside, IMO. Too many turnovers and limited arm. Being a cheerleader carries you only so far. Thanks for beating Miami twice but he was brutal to watch most of the time.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/QB-Tuel-takes-game-up-a-notch/3ca4f5e3-d80e-4f24-98c4-e492ab96b886?

He has an upside. Had an entire off-season to improve and would like to see him as next man in.

Lewis does not have an upside, IMO. Too many turnovers and limited arm. Being a cheerleader carries you only so far. Thanks for beating Miami twice but he was brutal to watch most of the time.

Were we watching two different Kansas City Chiefs games? Did you not see that pick six he just handed to the Chiefs defender. ****, he and he alone lost that game.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I think we can do much better than Tuel.

[YardRat]

Were we watching two different Kansas City Chiefs games? Did you not see that pick six he just handed to the Chiefs defender. ****, he and he alone lost that game.

He was a rookie, and made a rookie mistake. I remember more than one occasion when Jim Kelly did similar, and he was never really a rookie in a Bill's uniform.

If Tuel can progress and become better than Lewis, overall that's better for the team. Will he? Who knows...just like Manuel, and any other rookie at any other position, he certainly should get more than one season to see if he can contribute.

[justasportsfan]

Tuel is a better passer than Ej IMO if you take Tuels lack of experience into consideration.

[kishoph]

Tuel is a better passer than Ej IMO if you take Tuels lack of experience into consideration.


Of course he is, that's why he was drafted so high. Oh wait, he wasn't drafted ?

[bleve]

Were we watching two different Kansas City Chiefs games? Did you not see that pick six he just handed to the Chiefs defender. ****, he and he alone lost that game.

He should not have been in a position to throw that, but he was, and it was a mental rookie mistake. Not a physical error. That TD to Goodwin earlier was a thing of beauty.

[k-oneputt]

Yes he can.

[trapezeus]

lewis can get you to .500 if your starter is out...he can also play in cold weather.

Tuel is inexperienced and may be learning, but he didn't strike me as having an arm that can deal with late season games. and as such, i'm fine letting another team take him. he also was frail in college and doesn't look like a guy who can take punishment.


The truth is that this is EJ's team. they've brought in no one to really challenge that idea. so we go where EJ goes. if he's on the bench due to injury, we are looking at stop gap help. at best, i think Thad runs it best and most similar to EJ. They both run a convincing read option (thad more so than EJ since he actualy will run with it).

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Tuel is bad and he was bad in college. He has already gotten more chances then 90% of udfas and more then he deserves. This is just carrying on a storied Bills tradition of hyping the 3rd stringer for no earthly reason. Remember when people thought Craig Nall and Gibran Hamdan should start? Good times.

[better days]

Tuel is bad and he was bad in college. He has already gotten more chances then 90% of udfas and more then he deserves. This is just carrying on a storied Bills tradition of hyping the 3rd stringer for no earthly reason. Remember when people thought Craig Nall and Gibran Hamdan should start? Good times.


Tuel has a GOOD Strong arm.

He just needs to learn to read defenses.

He would have won the Chiefs game if not for one BAD play.

[swiper]

Tuel is bad and he was bad in college. He has already gotten more chances then 90% of udfas and more then he deserves. This is just carrying on a storied Bills tradition of hyping the 3rd stringer for no earthly reason. Remember when people thought Craig Nall and Gibran Hamdan should start? Good times.

Go back and look at Tuel's stats last pre-season.

[feldspar]

Go back and look at Tuel's stats last pre-season.

Why, is he going to be playing against third-stringers and guys that don't even make teams if Manuel goes down in the regular season?

Look up Tuel's regular season stats. 44% completions, 1 TD and 3 INTs...TWO pick-sixes.

The guy almost single-handedly lost BOTH games he played in for the Bills last year...Cleveland and Kansas City. Yeah, yeah...he was a rookie, didn't get the reps, and any other kind of thing you can think of.

Thad Lewis played just as well as Manuel last year, if not a bit better IMO. He showed some grit.

Some idiots were actually talking about Tuel maybe starting over EJ Manuel last year after the preseason. There is just nothing there to suggest Tuel should be the backup over Lewis. In fact, Tuel might end up on the practice squad for all we know. He's a long-shot project, and that's it.

[better days]

Why, is he going to be playing against third-stringers and guys that don't even make teams if Manuel goes down in the regular season?

Look up Tuel's regular season stats. 44% completions, 1 TD and 3 INTs...TWO pick-sixes.

The guy almost single-handedly lost BOTH games he played in for the Bills last year...Cleveland and Kansas City. Yeah, yeah...he was a rookie, didn't get the reps, and any other kind of thing you can think of.

Thad Lewis played just as well as Manuel last year, if not a bit better IMO. He showed some grit.

Some idiots were actually talking about Tuel maybe starting over EJ Manuel last year after the preseason. There is just nothing there to suggest Tuel should be the backup over Lewis. In fact, Tuel might end up on the practice squad for all we know. He's a long-shot project, and that's it.

And yet, Chris Brown who has seem more of both of them this off season thinks Tuel may win the back up job.

I guess Chris must be an idiot.

[Luisito23]

Tool sucks!

[DraftBoy]

Tuel has a GOOD Strong arm.

He just needs to learn to read defenses.

He would have won the Chiefs game if not for one BAD play.

No he does not have a good strong arm. Nor does having a good strong arm mean anything about playing QB.

- - - Updated - - -

To answer the question of could he? Of course he could, but I wouldn't count on it.

[sudzy]

And the season of fluffy Chris Brown Bills stories has kicked off. I'm going to miss his annual Torell Troup is going to turn heads story.

[feldspar]

And yet, Chris Brown who has seem more of both of them this off season thinks Tuel may win the back up job.

I guess Chris must be an idiot.

Propaganda.

Chris Brown really IS an idiot if he thinks unpadded OTAs are any indication of what's to come. Luckily, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't believe that. It's his job to drum up interest in the team, in large part.

Jeff Tuel never won anything anywhere. He was 4-22 as a starter in college, I believe...he went undrafted. His college coach doesn't think he even won in high school. I think he cost the Bills two games last year...he played in two games last year.

Do I hope he pans out in any way? Of course.

Am I holding my breath? No.

How many times have we been duped by hype?

That's all this is...hype.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[swiper]

Why, is he going to be playing against third-stringers and guys that don't even make teams if Manuel goes down in the regular season?

Look up Tuel's regular season stats. 44% completions, 1 TD and 3 INTs...TWO pick-sixes.

The guy almost single-handedly lost BOTH games he played in for the Bills last year...Cleveland and Kansas City. Yeah, yeah...he was a rookie, didn't get the reps, and any other kind of thing you can think of.

Thad Lewis played just as well as Manuel last year, if not a bit better IMO. He showed some grit.

Some idiots were actually talking about Tuel maybe starting over EJ Manuel last year after the preseason. There is just nothing there to suggest Tuel should be the backup over Lewis. In fact, Tuel might end up on the practice squad for all we know. He's a long-shot project, and that's it.

Why will some of you give Manuel all the rope in the world, but not allow Tuel one inch?

Manuel is the one with all the lofty expectations. And he sucked. Tuel came with none. Give that kid a break.

[pmoon6]

I don't know why Tuel gets badmouthed after playing a game and a half as a rookie.

Oh wait....I do.

It's because a large percentage of Bills' Fans are morons.

[Buffalo Thriller]

Of course he is, that's why he was drafted so high. Oh wait, he wasn't drafted ?

So by this logic Montana, Brady and others are bad passers because of draft position?

[Mace]

I don't think it's impossible Tuel wins the backup QB job, there's sort of no telling what any of them can or can't do a year later, including Dennis Dixon. Lewis, Tuel, or Dixon could suddenly click, step up and there you go.

It's not arm. They all have plenty of arm. Lewis and Dixon are more mobile, Tuel strikes me as classic pocket passer material, looked terrible when he had to move. Dixon backing up in Pittsburgh had improv options, like Roethlisberger is not mobile but moves, I dunno Tuel can't learn that.

Lewis looked unpolished but robust after taking stupid hits. Had an enthusiasm I liked, wasn't terrible, anyone has to admit he did better than anyone expected a practice squad UDFA Thad Lewis class of 2010 to do. I was kind of impressed by Thad Lewis for being Thad Lewis.

You sort of want a QB coach who polishes QB's, doesn't unpolish them : http://coachingroots.com/football/coaches/todd-downing

Not sure I see the magic there. Why would I or I'd be working in the NFL ? Hey, I could work in the NFL and be as bad as any coach who has ever had a career there easily.

Anyway, Manuel, Tuel, Lewis and Dixon are already unpolished so I really don't know where it's all going but suspect the worst just from habit. It's a crapshoot we'll soon find out about.

[Night Train]

I don't know why Tuel gets badmouthed after playing a game and a half as a rookie.

Oh wait....I do.

It's because a large percentage of Bills' Fans are morons.


:rofl: checkmate

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Tuel has a GOOD Strong arm.

Not really. It's about average, which is part of the problem. He has nothing that stands out that we can build upon.


He just needs to learn to read defenses.

And then what? He can be as good as Dan Orlovsky?


He would have won the Chiefs game if not for one BAD play.

Yes, on a day where every other player had a good to great day, he wouldn't have screwed it all up if he hadn't done that one thing where he screwed it all up.


He was a rookie, and made a rookie mistake. I remember more than one occasion when Jim Kelly did similar, and he was never really a rookie in a Bill's uniform.

If Tuel can progress and become better than Lewis, overall that's better for the team. Will he? Who knows...just like Manuel, and any other rookie at any other position, he certainly should get more than one season to see if he can contribute.

You can't give every single player two seasons worth of reps to decide if they are any good, and certainly not every single UDFA who comes through the door. We signed 8 of them this year. It'd be a safe bet that all of them will be cut without even making the opening day roster. Tuel has already gotten far more of a chance to prove himself then Aaron Corp or Kenny Guitton, you can't possibly say the Bills owe him another full year.


Go back and look at Tuel's stats last pre-season.

And? He racked the vast majority up against Indy's third stringers in a single pre-season game (and still got strip-sacked in the process).

Tuel may make the roster and may even take the 2nd string job. But that doesn't mean he's any good, all it means is that the Bills didn't bring in any meaningful competition at QB.

[swiper]

Tuel may make the roster and may even take the 2nd string job. But that doesn't mean he's any good, all it means is that the Bills didn't bring in any meaningful competition at QB.

No. Now wait a minute. Especially for all you folks that defend Marrone. IF he makes this roster, you can't say "he sucked." The coaching staff liked what they saw in him TWICE - once in 2013, giving him the 2nd/3rd string spot, and again in 2014. So all you claiming that "he sucks" think you're smarter than all the coaches that made the decision twice?

The same coaching staff tht let Travaris Jackson go? I don't think so.

[swiper]

You can't give every single player two seasons worth of reps to decide if they are any good, and certainly not every single UDFA who comes through the door. We signed 8 of them this year. It'd be a safe bet that all of them will be cut without even making the opening day roster. Tuel has already gotten far more of a chance to prove himself then Aaron Corp or Kenny Guitton, you can't possibly say the Bills owe him another full year.


So, again, if he makes the roster then the coaches felt that he deserved to. The Bills had every opportunity to draft most any rookie QB they wanted. They didn't. And no player is "owed" a year ever. It's produce or get out.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No. Now wait a minute. Especially for all you folks that defend Marrone. IF he makes this roster, you can't say "he sucked." The coaching staff liked what they saw in him TWICE - once in 2013, giving him the 2nd/3rd string spot, and again in 2014. So all you claiming that "he sucks" think you're smarter than all the coaches that made the decision twice?

The same coaching staff tht let Travaris Jackson go? I don't think so.

Tuel only made the roster in 2013 because both the #1 and #2 QBs got injured in training camp, one of which so severely that it forced him into retirement, and the #3 QB was traded for at the very last minute. If Kolb survived TC in 2013, it's very likely that Tuel does not. And I'm not sure what Jackson has to do with anything. He's not much better than Kolb, but at least he stays healthier.


So, again, if he makes the roster then the coaches felt that he deserved to. The Bills had every opportunity to draft most any rookie QB they wanted. They didn't.

That's what I said. Tuel making the roster doesn't prove he is good, it proves we brought in no other options. Unless you consider Dennis Dixon a viable backup (spoiler alert: He is not)


And no player is "owed" a year ever. It's produce or get out.

Tuel didn't produce.

[pmoon6]

No. Now wait a minute. Especially for all you folks that defend Marrone. IF he makes this roster, you can't say "he sucked." The coaching staff liked what they saw in him TWICE - once in 2013, giving him the 2nd/3rd string spot, and again in 2014. So all you claiming that "he sucks" think you're smarter than all the coaches that made the decision twice?

The same coaching staff tht let Travaris Jackson go? I don't think so.The pseudo coaches and GM's are a constant source of amusement. It may even be a new psychological malady. May explain the popularity of the Madden video games where you can be your own GM. Deluded souls who think they can do a job by sitting behind a computer and judging others performance when they only see a fraction of their overall body of work.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” ~ Theodore Roosevelt

[swiper]

Tuel only made the roster in 2013 because both the #1 and #2 QBs got injured in training camp, one of which so severely that it forced him into retirement, and the #3 QB was traded for at the very last minute. If Kolb survived TC in 2013, it's very likely that Tuel does not. And I'm not sure what Jackson has to do with anything. He's not much better than Kolb, but at least he stays healthier.

Not true. If Kolb was healthy the Bills would not have gone out and gotten Thad Lewis. At the very least Tuel was going to the practice squad. The coaches said over and over how much they liked him. He displayed accuracy and touch last year in the preseason - the best of any active QB on the team at that time.





That's what I said. Tuel making the roster doesn't prove he is good, it proves we brought in no other options. Unless you consider Dennis Dixon a viable backup (spoiler alert: He is not)

People seem to forget that he beat out Matt Flynn too. If he "sucked", as you claim, the Bills could have easily kept Flynn. And I don't have to remind you how much both the Seahawks and Raiders gave up to get that guy. And what he did in his brief look in Green Bay. So Tuel, who you say "sucks", has proven he's better than Travaris Jackson, Matt Flynn, Dennis Dixon in one season AND now we're reading articles about how he may take the 2nd string spot in 2014. Ok. You must be right in the face of ALL the Bills coaches that see him up close every day.

And I think I just killed your "no other options" argument.


Tuel didn't produce.

MANUEL didn't produce. Tuel was an UDFA who was thrust into an unlikely role because of poor planning by Whaley & Nix. Again. IF you're going to criticize ANY QB it should squarely be EJ Manuel. He was the one that came in with all the lofty expectations and looked like a deer in the headlights.

[kishoph]

So by this logic Montana, Brady and others are bad passers because of draft position?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

[coastal]

He kind of reminds me of Joe Montana.

[swiper]

Well you did declare yourself a 49ers fan.

[EDS]

No. Now wait a minute. Especially for all you folks that defend Marrone. IF he makes this roster, you can't say "he sucked." The coaching staff liked what they saw in him TWICE - once in 2013, giving him the 2nd/3rd string spot, and again in 2014. So all you claiming that "he sucks" think you're smarter than all the coaches that made the decision twice?

The same coaching staff tht let Travaris Jackson go? I don't think so.

Presumably the contradictions inherent in your post were intentional.

[swiper]

Presumably the contradictions inherent in your post were intentional.

Well certainly. Marrone can be criticized by many, and it sounds like maybe Illuminatus, for keeping Tuel and letting Jackson go. IIRC, They let go of Jackson when they had 4 healthy QBs around: he, Kolb, Manuel, and Tuel. This whole discussion again begs the question as to why they let Jackson go? He could throw the long ball and do it with accuracy better than Kolb, Manuel or Tuel. He was cheap. Tuel could have been stashed on the practice squad if the coaches wanted to keep him. They certainly could have, and should have found a roster spot for Jackson. He is >> Thad Lewis.

[starrymessenger]

It's easy to dump on Tuel. Injury history, poor college record, supposedly pop-gun arm, undrafted, poor stats - yeah there is plenty to be cynical about.
But the Bills seem to like him, at least for now, and I think I can see why.
He might be the kind of guy who can be developed. Ability To progress at the next, and last, level (and some may say in his case beginning to progress) is probably the hardest thing to predict when picking players. Chris Brown might just be fluffing things up but if his reports are true, even if it's only OTA's that is pretty much exactly what you would want to hear as a fan. The kid has decent, if not prototypical size, and has enuf arm to play effectively IMO. Question is, does he have the brain of quarterback, which is also the principal question concerning EJ for that matter.
I wouldn't be placing a lot of chips on that square but it's certainly possible. Romo, Warner, Moon were all undrafted. Montana and Brady were not your fantastic physical specimens.
IMO there is maybe a 30% chance that EJ turns into a reliable, read consistent, NFL starting QB.
There's also a 30% chance that Tuel is starting because of EJ's poor play or injury before the year is out.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Not true. If Kolb was healthy the Bills would not have gone out and gotten Thad Lewis. At the very least Tuel was going to the practice squad. The coaches said over and over how much they liked him. He displayed accuracy and touch last year in the preseason - the best of any active QB on the team at that time.

Many, many players can demonstrate touch and accuracy in a single game when they are playing against 3rd string defenses in the preseason. Fitzpatrick threw five TDs in preseason last year doing exactly that. So have lumaries like Matt Simms and Case Keenum.


People seem to forget that he beat out Matt Flynn too. If he "sucked", as you claim, the Bills could have easily kept Flynn. And I don't have to remind you how much both the Seahawks and Raiders gave up to get that guy. And what he did in his brief look in Green Bay.

He "beat out" Matt Flynn for the same reason he "beat out" Matt Leinart and Dennis Dixon. Tuel went through training camp and they didn't. Flynn and Dixon were an emergency mid-season replacement QBs when Lewis and Manuel were injured at the same time, and he was let go once they were healthy. What does how much Seattle and Oakland paid for him matter? Both of them thought he had starting potential, and both were wrong.


So Tuel, who you say "sucks", has proven he's better than Travaris Jackson, Matt Flynn, Dennis Dixon in one season AND now we're reading articles about how he may take the 2nd string spot in 2014. Ok. You must be right in the face of ALL the Bills coaches that see him up close every day.

So? Trent Edwards won TC battles with JP Losman, Brian Brohm, and Ryan Fitzpatrick. That's a first rounder and a second rounder right there. He must be good if he beat out talent like that, right? Beating bad players in TC doesn't automatically make you a good player, doubly so when you've had the benefit of extra months of practice time with that team. And if you're going to fluff Matt Flynn's one elite game from 2010 (And who was coaching the defense he scorched? d'oh!), then you can't turn around and say Tuel has "proven he's better." Because Tuel hasn't even come close to playing that well in any situation.


And I think I just killed your "no other options" argument.

The "options" you talk about were mid-season replacements from last year and most have already been let go. The only QB the Bills have brought in in the last 8 months was Kenny Guitton, and every one including him recognized he was a rookie camp arm being signed as a favor so he could improve his coaching prospects. They already let him go too.


MANUEL didn't produce. Tuel was an UDFA who was thrust into an unlikely role because of poor planning by Whaley & Nix. Again. IF you're going to criticize ANY QB it should squarely be EJ Manuel. He was the one that came in with all the lofty expectations and looked like a deer in the headlights.

I do criticize Manuel. All the time. Criticizing Tuel doesn't mean I'm praising Manuel (or Thad Lewis for that matter). I've been saying that we should bring in some legitimate competition for his spot, let alone Tuel's.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well certainly. Marrone can be criticized by many, and it sounds like maybe Illuminatus, for keeping Tuel and letting Jackson go. IIRC, They let go of Jackson when they had 4 healthy QBs around: he, Kolb, Manuel, and Tuel. This whole discussion again begs the question as to why they let Jackson go? He could throw the long ball and do it with accuracy better than Kolb, Manuel or Tuel. He was cheap. Tuel could have been stashed on the practice squad if the coaches wanted to keep him. They certainly could have, and should have found a roster spot for Jackson. He is >> Thad Lewis.

Jackson is not really better than Kolb, but he at least stays healthy. Kolb was an injury waiting to happen, and it happened.

[stuckincincy]

I remember when numbers of folks here were chewing their nails and biting their knees over the prospect of losing Tuel if he were assigned to the practice squad... :bullseye:

[BertSquirtgum]

Tuel time makes me want to throw up just like the idea of Manuel being the starting QB.

[BertSquirtgum]

Big bad Thad also sucks. Every QB on the Bills' roster blows.

[feldspar]

Why will some of you give Manuel all the rope in the world, but not allow Tuel one inch?

Manuel is the one with all the lofty expectations. And he sucked. Tuel came with none. Give that kid a break.

Manuel has enough rope to hang himself, at least. I did not give him the rope. It does not matter what I think about Tuel...that won't affect anything.

Also, this appeal to authority argument some of you are demonstrating in this thread is a logical fallacy. If the coaches endorse Tuel enough keep him on the team, everyone should just make blind assumptions because the coaches cannot be wrong...like we aren't entitled to our own opinion? Do I have to point out how many times coaches and GMs were wrong? Even better, old Moonie basically makes the "you're wrong because you are stupid" argument.

Chris Brown writes up a fluffed-up hype-piece about shining improvements in OTAs, and we are supposed to all fall for it and totally ignore Tuel's history and what we've seen with our own two eyes? How many times can you be taken in by that style of homeristic journalism? I've seen it too many times.

Manuel is the guy that needs to improve, anyway. Tuel needs to improve even more...there would be no need for a hyped-up fluff story if he didn't really need to improve. I'll believe it when it translates in a REAL game.

It's pretty clear that this team needs THREE quarterbacks readily available.

[swiper]

All teams need three QBs if they are going to continue to play 16 games/season.

[swiper]

Jackson is not really better than Kolb, but he at least stays healthy. Kolb was an injury waiting to happen, and it happened.

I'd be careful there. You don't have much to stand on in making that statement. Jackson was playing at a pretty high level the season before Wilson supplanted him. I don't think Kolb ever really played that well as a pro.

[Night Train]

It's important because the starting QB is 1 hit away from having a backup take his place and it happens quite often...especially in Buffalo.

I saw Frank Reich play a lot, due to Kelly being injured. It happens to all teams, regardless of the actual talent level.

[YardRat]

You can't give every single player two seasons worth of reps to decide if they are any good, and certainly not every single UDFA who comes through the door. We signed 8 of them this year. It'd be a safe bet that all of them will be cut without even making the opening day roster. Tuel has already gotten far more of a chance to prove himself then Aaron Corp or Kenny Guitton, you can't possibly say the Bills owe him another full year.


No, I agree, perhaps I should have been clearer with my comments. IMO he didn't do anything over the last season to warrant just outright cutting him before this season, but I in no way believe the team 'owes' him another full season. He did enough to justify bringing him back for camp, but if he gets beat out by somebody else during the practices, then he should be released.

[YardRat]

Hell, back in the day not too many people thought Frank Reich would ever be worth a damn as a back-up, let alone a starter. Even in his first action replacing Kelly he sucked for three quarters until finally pulling out the win. The rest is history.

[JoeMama]

Tuel is bad and he was bad in college. He has already gotten more chances then 90% of udfas and more then he deserves. This is just carrying on a storied Bills tradition of hyping the 3rd stringer for no earthly reason. Remember when people thought Craig Nall and Gibran Hamdan should start? Good times.

Ugh, I remember a couple fans losing their **** about him being the Pakestani Passer.

That got really gay really quick.

It had the staying power of Pistol Pete Gonzalez and all the nothing his buzz amounted to as well.

Not to say Jeff Tuel is as unremarkable as those guys, but you get my point.

[JoeMama]

For the record, I think Jeff Tuel has some upside and is worthy of our consideration as a backup.

That KC game last year was a dog, but he has a quick release and has an okay arm.

Thad Lewis is a cut above him, to be sure, but with injury prone EJ Manuel at the helm, it never hurts to keep our QB options open.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'd be careful there. You don't have much to stand on in making that statement. Jackson was playing at a pretty high level the season before Wilson supplanted him. I don't think Kolb ever really played that well as a pro.

You have much less of a stand saying that Jackson was "playing at a pretty high level" in 2011. Jackson has always played in front of elite halfbacks and been basically told "Don't screw this up." Well, in 2011 he doesn't really screw it up, but he didn't really play that well either.


No, I agree, perhaps I should have been clearer with my comments. IMO he didn't do anything over the last season to warrant just outright cutting him before this season, but I in no way believe the team 'owes' him another full season. He did enough to justify bringing him back for camp, but if he gets beat out by somebody else during the practices, then he should be released.

Sure, but there's only one guy who can beat him (Dixon) and I don't think he will. For whatever reason, the Bills considered their QB depth chart finished before Thanksgiving last year and have made no moves to improve it, which I find baffling.

[Crisis]

The most popular man in Buffalo is always the 3rd string quarterback.

I miss Hamdan.

[Crisis]

Hell, back in the day not too many people thought Frank Reich would ever be worth a damn as a back-up, let alone a starter. Even in his first action replacing Kelly he sucked for three quarters until finally pulling out the win. The rest is history.

And for every Frank Reich, there's 20 Travis Browns, Gilbert Hamdans, and Craig Nalls.

Thad is fine for a backup. We should worry about getting a real starter before worrying about our backups.

[swiper]

You have much less of a stand saying that Jackson was "playing at a pretty high level" in 2011. Jackson has always played in front of elite halfbacks and been basically told "Don't screw this up." Well, in 2011 he doesn't really screw it up, but he didn't really play that well either.

And you claim he's not better than Kolb? See: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2011/seasontype/2

Look for Jackson. Then look for Kolb.

He not only played pretty well, he was notably better than Kolb.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And you claim he's not better than Kolb? See: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2011/seasontype/2

Look for Jackson. Then look for Kolb.

He not only played pretty well, he was notably better than Kolb.


Uhhh, look at how many games Jackson played vs. how many games Kolb played that year.

Look at again at what I said:

Jackson is not really better than Kolb, but he at least stays healthy. Kolb was an injury waiting to happen, and it happened.

[Novacane]

I was as pissed at him as anyone after the KC game but that's history. It was a rookie mistake. He may actually improve. He may not. To write him off as a POS because of 1 pass is dumb. Can we at least wait until the preseason to do that?

[Famous Amos]

Tuel throws a nice long ball, but so did JP Losman. Until the game slows down for Jeff, he shouldn't be anymore than the third QB.

[The Jokeman]

Ugh, I remember a couple fans losing their **** about him being the Pakestani Passer.

That got really gay really quick.

It had the staying power of Pistol Pete Gonzalez and all the nothing his buzz amounted to as well.

Not to say Jeff Tuel is as unremarkable as those guys, but you get my point.
There's a reason the old adage that every fan's favorite QB is the back up as truth is the back up always has the potential to be better than your starter and honestly in today's NFL if you're QB isn't Peyton, Brady, Brees or Rogers that P word looms large in most fans eyes. It's what caused the debates back in the day with Flutie/Johnson. Also it's a matter of perception of quality QB play. Some focus primarily on bottom line Ws vs Ls where others look at completion percentage, yards, points etc. Case in point I am still baffled as to why the 49ers gave Kaepernick such a large contract, sure they've made 3 straight NFC Conference games with him at QB but from a numbers perspective he doesn't define me a great QB and don't think he deserves the contract he got. That said I thought he was a better QB than Alex Smith so should have been starting but if look back at Smith's stats in San Francisco they weren't that much worse than Kaepernick's so maybe it's the system.

[The Jokeman]

I was as pissed at him as anyone after the KC game but that's history. It was a rookie mistake. He may actually improve. He may not. To write him off as a POS because of 1 pass is dumb. Can we at least wait until the preseason to do that?

what about his mop up in Cleveland? It wasn't that much prettier. Sure it's nice to give Tuel a chance but for the sake of winning and losing is it worth it? The truth is for the short term Thad Lewis is a better QB than Tuel until proven otherwise. So if it comes to a regular season game on the line that we must win or lose I'm all for putting Thad in there over Tuel. I mean think about this one had we beaten Cleveland and KC we would have been 8-8 last year, would you have less or more hope for the 2014 season had we won those two games?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Case in point I am still baffled as to why the 49ers gave Kaepernick such a large contract, sure they've made 3 straight NFC Conference games with him at QB but from a numbers perspective he doesn't define me a great QB and don't think he deserves the contract he got.

Kaepernick's contract was not nearly as big as was reported. The team has outs almost every single year, the vast majority of the "guaranteed" money is guaranteed only for injury until April 1, that injury guarantee is counterbalanced by an insurance policy Kaep has to buy that pays out to the 49ers, and he has de-escalators every year unless he's an All-Pro or wins the NFC.

Sooo much fluff.

[ublinkwescore]

lewis can get you to .500 if your starter is out...he can also play in cold weather.

Tuel is inexperienced and may be learning, but he didn't strike me as having an arm that can deal with late season games. and as such, i'm fine letting another team take him. he also was frail in college and doesn't look like a guy who can take punishment.


The truth is that this is EJ's team. they've brought in no one to really challenge that idea. so we go where EJ goes. if he's on the bench due to injury, we are looking at stop gap help. at best, i think Thad runs it best and most similar to EJ. They both run a convincing read option (thad more so than EJ since he actualy will run with it).

Tuel had revolving doors for an offensive line in college

[stuckincincy]

Tuel had revolving doors for an offensive line in college

He signed with the right NFL team, then... :tip:

[OpIv37]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/QB-Tuel-takes-game-up-a-notch/3ca4f5e3-d80e-4f24-98c4-e492ab96b886?

He has an upside. Had an entire off-season to improve and would like to see him as next man in.

Lewis does not have an upside, IMO. Too many turnovers and limited arm. Being a cheerleader carries you only so far. Thanks for beating Miami twice but he was brutal to watch most of the time.
Could Tuel step up be the back up? Sure, it's technically possible.

It's also technically possible that I win $100 million in the lottery, invest it and turn it into $2 billion in time to outbid Pegula and buy the Bills, and my wife is so happy about it that she invites a lingerie model to join us in a threesome.

I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those though.

[pmoon6]

:rofl: @ this thread and the Buffalo "Faithful".

[Night Train]

Could Tuel step up be the back up? Sure, it's technically possible.

It's also technically possible that I win $100 million in the lottery, invest it and turn it into $2 billion in time to outbid Pegula and buy the Bills, and my wife is so happy about it that she invites a lingerie model to join us in a threesome.

I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those though.

:rofl: The first lady of American Theater

[justasportsfan]

Tuel didn't have as much e perience as EJ in college and hardly had any snaps as Ej during camps and practices compared to Ej. Yet, Ej at times has looked just as bad. I am not advocating for Tuel to start. Just stating observations between the 1st vs 3rd qb. If you think we should give Ej a chance as a starter we should give Tuel a break as well as a back up if we are to use last years circumstances.

[Oaf]

Tuel didn't have as much experience as EJ in college and hardly had any snaps as Ej during camps and practices compared to Ej. Yet, Ej at times has looked just as bad.

This.

[better days]

Tuel didn't have as much e perience as EJ in college and hardly had any snaps as Ej during camps and practices compared to Ej. Yet, Ej at times has looked just as bad. I am not advocating for Tuel to start. Just stating observations between the 1st vs 3rd qb. If you think we should give Ej a chance as a starter we should give Tuel a break as well as a back up if we are to use last years circumstances.

And in comparison to Thad Lewis, Tuel did not have as much experience either.

I don't think it is unrealistic to think he could overtake Thad.

[justasportsfan]

And in comparison to Thad Lewis, Tuel did not have as much experience either.

I don't think it is unrealistic to think he could overtake Thad.
Thad still has more experience compared to Tuel when he joined the bills. The difference is that Thad can run the read option because he is more mobile. I know its only OTa's and the pads haven't come on but Tuel could have a better arm than Thad .

[Mr. Pink]

Lewis is the best QB on the roster.

[better days]

Lewis is the best QB on the roster.

OK, if you are right about that we should see Lewis start opening day.

Care to make a bet about that?

[Mr. Pink]

OK, if you are right about that we should see Lewis start opening day.

Care to make a bet about that?

Of course he won't be, there's an investment in Manuel as a 1st round pick. That doesn't mean he's the best QB on the roster.

Performance last year, on field, showed who was the best QB on the roster.

Lewis had a higher completion percentage, lower INT percentage, higher rating, higher YPA, higher YPC.

[better days]

Of course he won't be, there's an investment in Manuel as a 1st round pick. That doesn't mean he's the best QB on the roster.

Performance last year, on field, showed who was the best QB on the roster.

Lewis had a higher completion percentage, lower INT percentage, higher rating, higher YPA, higher YPC.

Well, let's see the numbers.

Especially with a new owner coming, one would think Marrone needs to win & if Lewis is the best QB on the roster & gives the Bills the best chance to win, why wouldn't Marrone start him over EJ?

[Night Train]

Buffalo News today

Jeff Tuel received some reps with the second team during today's practice, and Marrone declared the backup quarterback job behind EJ Manuel to be there for the taking between Tuel and Thad Lewis.
"We’re trying to find out who it’s going to be and Jeff did a nice job in OTAs and he’s earned himself some more reps," Marrone said.

[better days]

Buffalo News today

Jeff Tuel received some reps with the second team during today's practice, and Marrone declared the backup quarterback job behind EJ Manuel to be there for the taking between Tuel and Thad Lewis.
"We’re trying to find out who it’s going to be and Jeff did a nice job in OTAs and he’s earned himself some more reps," Marrone said.

And reports I am hearing today on WGR is that Thad has not looked good.

It could be Tuel time.

[feldspar]

I'm starting to believe that Tuel being the #2 is entirely possible.

[gebobs]

Who woulda thunk we would be wistful for the days of Fitz, Trent, and Brad?

[better days]

Who woulda thunk we would be wistful for the days of Fitz, Trent, and Brad?

Well, you may be, but NOT ME!

[gebobs]

Well, you may be, but NOT ME!

;-)

Not really.

[Turf]

Lewis looked awful. Tuel didn't look bad but the kid has the worst luck.

[k-oneputt]

Right now Tuel looks like the best qb on the team.

Think about that for a moment.

[gebobs]

http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/blogs/lists/saturday-night-live-rye-by-the-sword1.jpg

[Night Train]

Could Tuel step up be the back up? Sure, it's technically possible.

It's also technically possible that I win $100 million in the lottery, invest it and turn it into $2 billion in time to outbid Pegula and buy the Bills, and my wife is so happy about it that she invites a lingerie model to join us in a threesome.

I wouldn't hold my breath on either of those though.

Time to hold your breath

[Forward_Lateral]

I think Tuel is going to win the starting job, to be honest.

Flame away

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I think Tuel is going to win the starting job, to be honest.

Flame away

not gonna flame. i just don't think that whaley/marrone will do it for the sole reason that they are essentially 'all in' on EJ.

[better days]

not gonna flame. i just don't think that whaley/marrone will do it for the sole reason that they are essentially 'all in' on EJ.

The only way Tuel starts is if EJ gets injured again.

But Tuel is building a strong case to be the back up & could well be starting games.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If EJ fails so badly that Tuel becomes the starter, the Bills will be scrambling to find someone and EJ will become the next Vince Young. The second Jets game is a glimpse of what EJ is capable of, but so is the Tampa game. If he can find a way to play like he did in that Jets game on a more consistent basis, this team will be playoff material. Jeff Tuel is a game manager at best, and a pick-6 is a more likely end than a game winning TD based on his (limited) body of work.

[Ed]

I really really hope we don't have to see either of these guys take a snap this year, so I guess I don't really care that much who wins the backup job. I don't really see either of them as good options for the #2 spot.

[kishoph]

I think Tuel is going to win the starting job, to be honest.

Flame away

Are they making the Canadian beer stronger now ?

How you been friend ? Long time no talk. Hope all is good, but put down the beers. lol

[don137]

Tuel has progressed more than EJ from year one to year two but that is like saying you're the tallest dwarf. Right now both do not look to be starting material.

[stuckincincy]

Tuel has progressed more than EJ from year one to year two but that is like saying you're the tallest dwarf. Right now both do not look to be starting material.

Nicely put...

[Forward_Lateral]

Are they making the Canadian beer stronger now ?

How you been friend ? Long time no talk. Hope all is good, but put down the beers. lol

lol I've been good. Super busy. My daughter starts school in the fall. Time flies.

I think the Bills are really down playing how much they like Tuel. I think he came into camp more prepared than expected, and in better shape than the other QBs. I think he has a chance to start some games this year.

I'm not saying I hope this, I'm just basing this off of what I saw in the first pre season game. Now, that might change this week, who knows. I just hope EJ can be the guy. If he's not, I hope Tuel is. If Tuel isn't, I hope Thad is.

[kishoph]

Tuel has progressed more than EJ from year one to year two but that is like saying you're the tallest dwarf. Right now both do not look to be starting material.

I don't think we'll know this until the games start to count, both have worked hard in the offseason. What they do in practice shows very little. There's is such a big difference between a preseason practice and a game, both physically and mentally. In a game the adrenalin is sky high that can't be simulated in a practice setting, where there's no pressure and nothing's on the line. Mentally you gameplan specifically for the team your facing and what plays you'll use and practice them for 3 days. In a preseason practice, you face a cluster**** of plays and different players. If anything Bills history should show the difference of preseason and regular season games, let alone training camp practices. How many training camp QB's have looked like all-stars and shat the bed when it was game time. The opposite is the Super Bowl teams of the 90's, they sucked in preseason games, but killed when it counted. Tuel was horrible in 2 games last season, Manuel had struggles, but at least he showed he could move the offense. I'm pretty sure the staff is going to go with who's there best option to win (their jobs depend on it) and they've shown no sign of having Tuel challenge for #1, in fact Lewis took the majority of #2 snaps in practice the other day.

[swiper]

Are they making the Canadian beer stronger now ?

How you been friend ? Long time no talk. Hope all is good, but put down the beers. lol

For as much as I recognize that Manuel will never be good more than anyone else, I also recognize that the Bills would never start Tuel over him.

[Typ0]

For as much as I recognize that Manuel will never be good more than anyone else, I also recognize that the Bills would never start Tuel over him.

That's a bold statement. I think they already like the work Tuel has done in the offseason. Maybe he's even mentally prepared...and we know they liked him last year and also understood he wasn't ready. There are potential situations where Tuel gets the nod of Manual IMO.

[kishoph]

lol I've been good. Super busy. My daughter starts school in the fall. Time flies.

I think the Bills are really down playing how much they like Tuel. I think he came into camp more prepared than expected, and in better shape than the other QBs. I think he has a chance to start some games this year.

I'm not saying I hope this, I'm just basing this off of what I saw in the first pre season game. Now, that might change this week, who knows. I just hope EJ can be the guy. If he's not, I hope Tuel is. If Tuel isn't, I hope Thad is.

There were some good parts to his game Sunday, but there were also things that he did that Manuel would be blasted for if he did them. One was his 4.4 y/a, that's really not impressive. Two, as much as I hate saying this because I think people really over blow it, on the int. he never looked anywhere other than Graham. If a QB is sure of his 1st look, he doesn't need to look elsewhere. I don't blame Tuel for locking in on Graham on that play, but as I said, if it was Manuel, he would be getting torn apart for it. Last the TD pass was more of a good catch by Woods, it was a little behind for such a short pass. Again I'm fine with it, but if it was Manuel, people would be *****ing about it. Both QB's need work, but Manuel is being criticized pretty harshly this preseason, for me Draft position shouldn't matter when judging.

If Tuel is going to move into the #1 spot, he has to get off the #3 spot first, according to the newest depth chart, Lewis is now #2. Is it some kind of coaching strategy to motivate one or both of them, or is it just as it appears ?

[better days]

There were some good parts to his game Sunday, but there were also things that he did that Manuel would be blasted for if he did them. One was his 4.4 y/a, that's really not impressive. Two, as much as I hate saying this because I think people really over blow it, on the int. he never looked anywhere other than Graham. If a QB is sure of his 1st look, he doesn't need to look elsewhere. I don't blame Tuel for locking in on Graham on that play, but as I said, if it was Manuel, he would be getting torn apart for it. Last the TD pass was more of a good catch by Woods, it was a little behind for such a short pass. Again I'm fine with it, but if it was Manuel, people would be *****ing about it. Both QB's need work, but Manuel is being criticized pretty harshly this preseason, for me Draft position shouldn't matter when judging.

If Tuel is going to move into the #1 spot, he has to get off the #3 spot first, according to the newest depth chart, Lewis is now #2. Is it some kind of coaching strategy to motivate one or both of them, or is it just as it appears ?

Also, Tuel was playing against the #2 & #3 players on the Giants while EJ played against their best.

[trapezeus]

I think Tuel is going to win the starting job, to be honest.

Flame away

i just think whaley and marrone will be in a really tough spot if they passed on a qb this draft (who turns out to be good) and they picked a WR to go with their handpicked qb.

but to give your point some believability, if EJ isn't progressing, they have a very vested interest to not hand over a high draft pick next year. its a PR nightmare that either or both of those guys can't survive with their job in tact. so winning becomes very important. EJ needs to inspire some confidence and get some wins (or not lose games) or Marrone and whaley will have to literally look at all options on the roster.

what i also fear is that they go to this win now and try to go 8-8 at the sake of not further developing the roster. and that 8-8 looks very jauronian where the games are boring, we know we are out of them and even the wins kind of are unentertaining, snoozefests.

[trapezeus]

If EJ fails so badly that Tuel becomes the starter, the Bills will be scrambling to find someone and EJ will become the next Vince Young. The second Jets game is a glimpse of what EJ is capable of, but so is the Tampa game. If he can find a way to play like he did in that Jets game on a more consistent basis, this team will be playoff material. Jeff Tuel is a game manager at best, and a pick-6 is a more likely end than a game winning TD based on his (limited) body of work.

EJ strikes me as rick James. "when he's on, he was great, when he wasn't, he was awful."

that jets game, EJ rode incredible crowd momentum from a D that was eating geno and his mistakes alive. the throw to goodwin was awesome. EJ just looked relaxed and ready to play. in games when he doesn't have that momentum, he looks timid and it effects his accuracy.

[better days]

EJ strikes me as rick James. "when he's on, he was great, when he wasn't, he was awful."

that jets game, EJ rode incredible crowd momentum from a D that was eating geno and his mistakes alive. the throw to goodwin was awesome. EJ just looked relaxed and ready to play. in games when he doesn't have that momentum, he looks timid and it effects his accuracy.

Well, Chris Collingsworth, Marty Schottenheimer & Jim Miller were all at the Bills camp & saw EJ up close.

Every one of them said EJ has progressed & improved since last year.

None of them work for the Bills or are fans of the Bills, so I believe they gave their honest assessment of EJ.

I think I will trust their judgement over people on this board that most likely haven't been within 100 miles of training camp.

[swiper]

Well, Chris Collingsworth, Marty Schottenheimer & Jim Miller were all at the Bills camp & saw EJ up close.

Every one of them said EJ has progressed & improved since last year.

None of them work for the Bills or are fans of the Bills, so I believe they gave their honest assessment of EJ.

I think I will trust their judgement over people on this board that most likely haven't been within 100 miles of training camp.

As EJ pats the ball and stares down his receiver.

[kishoph]

As EJ pats the ball and stares down his receiver.

Have you been to camp this year and seen him doing this, or are you just repeating the same old tired refrain from a reporter that has never liked Manuel to begin with ? Better days named three credible people that said they have seen improvement since last year, but what do they know over a WGR reporter.

[justasportsfan]

Marrone and Whaley has hitched their wagon on EJ however, Marrone has stated several times that they are in a business of production. IF EJ does not produce, will they unhitch their wagon and go with Tuel? Only time will tell.

[trapezeus]

Well, Chris Collingsworth, Marty Schottenheimer & Jim Miller were all at the Bills camp & saw EJ up close.

Every one of them said EJ has progressed & improved since last year.

None of them work for the Bills or are fans of the Bills, so I believe they gave their honest assessment of EJ.

I think I will trust their judgement over people on this board that most likely haven't been within 100 miles of training camp.

improvements from a year he didn't play much and looked fairly lost at times, and ok at others.

admittedly, there is little that can be said to convince me one wayor the other on EJ until he starts the season.
and if EJ isn't better, but the defense is ok and the run game carries the team to be a legitimate playoff team, i won't really care either. though that will be an omen that the team won't go far in the playoffs.

at this point, i just want to get into the show. winning in the playoffs is the next goal.

[better days]

improvements from a year he didn't play much and looked fairly lost at times, and ok at others.

admittedly, there is little that can be said to convince me one wayor the other on EJ until he starts the season.
and if EJ isn't better, but the defense is ok and the run game carries the team to be a legitimate playoff team, i won't really care either. though that will be an omen that the team won't go far in the playoffs.

at this point, i just want to get into the show. winning in the playoffs is the next goal.

Well,EJ beat the Panthers, Ravens & Jets last year.

And I think he would have beat the Browns if he was not injured.

I don't think Fitz would have won any of those games.

That is why I have hope.

[swiper]

Have you been to camp this year and seen him doing this, or are you just repeating the same old tired refrain from a reporter that has never liked Manuel to begin with ? Better days named three credible people that said they have seen improvement since last year, but what do they know over a WGR reporter.

You're both dolts. SHOW me those exact quotes please. Or it counts for zero. Here's Peter King telling you:

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/23/peter-king-five-things-i-think-i-think-buffalo-bills-training-camp-2014/autostart/

[kishoph]

Marrone and Whaley has hitched their wagon on EJ however, Marrone has stated several times that they are in a business of production. IF EJ does not produce, will they unhitch their wagon and go with Tuel? Only time will tell.

I think they have to, unless this team produces wins, Marrone and Whaley will be looking for new jobs. At this point they don't care who was drafted where, if there is someone else that can get the job done better in their opinion, you can bet they'll play them. A few years ago if a player was drafted high, because of the outrageous rookie salaries, GM's and coaches were almost forced to play them. That's not the case anymore, especially with a new owner coming in that has no ties to anyone on the team. The conspiracy theory that Manuel is starting over Tuel because he was picked in the first round, just doesn't work nowadays, especially with the position that Marrone and Whaley are in.

[better days]

You're both dolts. SHOW me those exact quotes please. Or it counts for zero. Here's Peter King telling you:

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/23/peter-king-five-things-i-think-i-think-buffalo-bills-training-camp-2014/autostart/

Collingsworth, Schottenheimer & Miller were all on the John Murphy show.

You can probably find the podcasts in the archives @ WGR or I Tunes.

And what did Peter King tell us?

I really like Peter King, thanks for the link, but he only said he thinks EJ needs to throw the ball down the field.

I would agree with that.

He did not say if he saw any improvement in EJ or not.

[Typ0]

I disagree with 'they have to' and that is what I find most frustrating. Tuel needs to emerge in order to be viable in this position...and he's not ready to do that. Ditching Manual because he's not doing well will be a disaster which is exactly why they haven't prepared a backup plan. It's Manual or bust in this organization right now. The only way Manual is getting sat down is if he really struggles, gets injured and the guy who comes in lights it up and wins all his games.


I think they have to, unless this team produces wins, Marrone and Whaley will be looking for new jobs. At this point they don't care who was drafted where, if there is someone else that can get the job done better in their opinion, you can bet they'll play them. A few years ago if a player was drafted high, because of the outrageous rookie salaries, GM's and coaches were almost forced to play them. That's not the case anymore, especially with a new owner coming in that has no ties to anyone on the team. The conspiracy theory that Manuel is starting over Tuel because he was picked in the first round, just doesn't work nowadays, especially with the position that Marrone and Whaley are in.

[Typ0]

people say it's a positive that a rookie is given the job without a true competition because the pressure is off ... well look at my post above and tell me if the pressure is really off.